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I'm trying to understand something and I'm dreading what to say to uBPDw in a couple of hours about an impending schedule change that she already dysregulated about last week.

My work has recently come down on everyone about "normal" hours so for the time being sneaking out to see my T during the day is a no-go.  uBPDw already got mad that I would take time from work to see T instead of playing hooky with her, now seeing her after work during "family" time is really being frowned upon.

My T knows that things havent been good and really changed her schedule around to accommodate me after work today.  Last week when asking uBPDw if she could pick D16 up from the bus stop (5 mins from the house) so I could go all hell broke loose.  How dare I "inconvenience her"  how dare I "sacrifice my limited time with the kids", "sure inconvenience everyone else for your benefit" "See her during a time when it does not affect us"...  I could go on and on about with plenty of F-yous and get the F-s out, if I'm stuck with you living here don't dare do anything at my expense... .lots of blather.

So there really is two issues but they may be related... .First: Its apparent to me she doesn't want me seeing a T as she gets mad when I do it during work hours and its "not allowed" after work hours... .I really have a hard time understand why someone would try to block someone from attending to their mental health.
Second: Looking back I have noticed that any time there is a schedule change or something pops up she just can't handle it.  She is neurotic about being on time (30-60 mins early for an appointment isnt unheard of).  If I put something on the family calendar without discussing with her first (even weeks ahead of time) that I catch hell again.

Is this a control issue?  Is this even a BPD issue?
I have my mother driving 45 mins to town to pick D16 up to drop her off 5 mins away.  I know when I tell uBPDw in a few hours that I've decided to keep my appointment at 6 tonight she is absolutely going to loose her mind.  Any suggestions on how to phrase it?

Why does D16 need to be picked up?  Is there a disability or other special need? 

I thought I was somewhat familiar with your story yet don't remember anything D16. 


There is some "stinkin thinkin... ." in your post.

"sneak out" to see P?    If your wife has concerns about scheduling T... .I would discuss that with her... at T.  Or I wouldn't discuss it at all. 

Also... .I get it we want to accommodate work and all that, but if you have a medical need my understanding is work has to "work with you" and not the other way around.  I get it that will call attention to yourself.

Bottom line... .go see T when needed.


Oh... yeah, it's a control, compromise issue that is likely magnified by BPD.

FF

Hey FF, its D11 that has the medical issues.  The problem with the bus stop for D16 is its a drop off point from private school.  Not walkable to the house, especially this time of year.  Someone has to be there to get her.

There is no "we" in the T, its only me.  uBPDw doesnt think she or we need it as I will just "lie" and make myself out to be a victim and that would just be another waste of her time and "inconvenience her".

Issue surrounding work is that for several months I kept "ducking out" to deal with BPD crazy and almost got fired for it.  Yes its "kind of" medical now, but really I don't want to rock the boat right now.  I'm technically an employee at will so they could find any reason to say see you later!

D16 knows that her grandmother is picking her up today and I didnt lie to her about why.  She said to me, why does mom have to be like that?  And oh yeah, would you please schedule me another meeting with my own T... .

Things like this regardless of the "good times" remind me of what I'm dealing with.  I have a mentally unstable person trying to deny me mental health care... .hows that good for anyone?

I realize that she may still try to get you to stop seeing T.  Mine does as well... .every so often.

Just make the same offer... .consistently. 

"I'm willing to include you in an upcoming session with T to understand your concerns.  I won't discuss this further outside of T's office."  and don't... .walk away.

I understand the bus stop issue.  Is there a coffee shop or something d16 can wait at? 

And... .I totally understand the difference in "book answer" at work and the way it really works. 

Hang in there.

FF

From an employment standpoint, can you use FMLA? When I was going to counseling, I used FMLA so my employer would have to allow me to go to appointments in the middle of the day.

I use  SET  (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0) for these conversations.

Ex:
"I can't wait to see you when I get home this evening. I have a counseling session this evening at 6. Would you like me to grab something for us for dinner so we can just hang out together when I get home and not have to worry about dinner?"

Can you try coming up with something like that?

Well that didn't go well.  I told her I was still going and she called me to rip me apart about how sh-tty I am and that I'm taking care of myself at the expense of my children.
Yes FF there is a coffee shop she can wait in, but it would be for quite a long time (not really fair to D16).

Here's the aftermath... .

I was told point blank if I don't come home on time she is filing for divorce tomorrow.  This is her last straw... .
"Nothing about you changes.  You still don't listen.  You're still inconsiderate and selfish and yes, pathetic"

I told her when I got home I would be open with the kids and thank them for giving dad the time away so he could see a counselor.
"I'll be open to them and tell them about the fact that we are getting divorced"

Followed by "If you are willing to sacrifice time, which you admitted already isnt enough, with your family then I don't want to be with you.  Your continued justifications for your selfish behavior have gotten old.  Tell you mommy you'll need a check (for a lawyer)."

this is horrible.

Yes it is!

Step back for a second.  Why are you able to tell us all the details about this horrible conversation?  Is there anything YOU could have done to prevent yourself from being exposed to all of those horrible things?

Step even further back... .what is the power struggle about?


FF

Slight side track... .
This is not so important but... .


Many of the traits of the different personality disorders overlap.  Many folks who may have BPD, also may have traits of NPD or DPD or such.  It is possible she has OCPD or maybe OCPD traits. (Obsessive compulsive oersonality disorder)

Yet, regardless of the label, the advice and direction you are getting here is still going to apply regardless of what you want to call it.

Ok, side track done.

They already gave me some time off to get things cleaned up, I really can't ask for much more.

I've been practicing SET for a long time, I really thing my wife is immune to it now.

I did try something exactly like what you suggested.  I said just because I am going to a counseling session tonight doesnt mean that I am not excited to see you when I get home.  I suggested we could watch some tv or possibly read together tonight... .

She told me I make her sick with because EVERYTHING revolves around me and my almighty appointment. I am sick, selfish and inconsiderate.  She then tried to pin me with something about me needing to go to this appointment so bad because I believed I was a danger to myself or to her.  Which of course I had to respond to that no I was not in danger nor was anyone else in my life.  To which she then used against me saying that I didnt need to go and that If I really was committed to the family I would put off seeing my T until I could do it during work hours again.

She keeps telling me that if I go to my appointment I'm not committing to the family and she'll file papers tomorrow.  How exactly is threatening divorce committing to the family?

This women is going to make me insane...

Hey oz, Those w/BPD use F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt) in order to manipulate us Nons.  In this case, I would say she is using fear (divorce), with a dash of obligation and guilt (your commitment to family, etc.).

My suggestion: don't buy into this arm-twisting.

LJ

Thanks everyone, I’m home now. T was very blunt with me regarding boundaries and not engaging. Went through a few examples and she wants me to be pretty ironclad. Said the amount of texting and abuse via the phone I receive is far beyond anything she’s ever seen before including some of the teen girls she’s involved with... .

T said things seem pretty bleak and she wasn’t surgercoating the level of BPD she believes I’m dealing with. She got to see the 25 or so texts roll in during just the first few minutes of the appointment... .fortunately though she was able to help me see through some of the terrible insults and attacks on my parenting.

FF yes I engaged too much and got caught in the whirlwind.

Sunfl0wer, You have a good point I do strongly believe she has a few other issues beyond BPD.

LJ I’ve been getting better at ignoring the threats, the obligation part I do struggle with still. My T being very blunt tonight said outright that if my wife files for divorce I should probably count my blessings and escape with as much of my hide in tact as I can... .  she has clearly seen a downward turn in my mental health and has ramped up her advocacy to convince me it’s time to get out before I really hit bottom... .  she tried valiantly to help me earlier this year find ways to try and cope and possibly coax uBPDw into some sort of therapy even if it was just couples counseling but now believes I’m way beyond that and staying would be extremely devastating to my health.

I just wish I could get off this ride even for a few minutes.

Well, she is in FULL meltdown mode this morning.  I knew she was pretty wound up last night at bed time and she did not cool off over night.

Doing the best I can to disengage and trying to remember the validation points I received last night during T.  T had to point out all of the things that I am actually doing right because my sense of reality has started slipping.  That was hard to hear.

Now this morning uBPDw is relentlessly texting about how much of a failure I am and that her thoughts and feelings are JUST as important as mine... .  This must be part of the black hole.  There are many times and certainly in the last year since I've learned of BPD that I have gone out of my way to validate.  It really feels like it would take absolute precise perfection to not set her off.  I can't be perfect, no one is.

I owned that there are still things I do that she doesn't like and reminded her that there is still things she does that I don't like.  Its called a relationship, but I should have known better than to try and talk to her normally.  I was succinctly reminded that sometime I have to compromise... and for 17 years I've made her my scapegoat.

She took off her rings, hid her purse and I know she took her cash reserve that she's been holding for a retainer.  She's threatened lawyer again and and has been really angrily "done" with me today.  Will she follow through this time?  I guess we'll see.  I just received a text "what's done is done"...

Wife told me I had the choice to move out and she would file a less aggressive joint petition, or if not she would file a complaint for divorce and have me served.  I said, sure, if thats what you really want to do, file the joint petition and I would calmly and peacefully speak with the kids (again) and start the process.  As of this morning she states since I didnt pack my bags and leave I have made my choice clear to her that she must file a complaint now to force me out of the house... .  like wth?  I'm not moving out without the papers actually being filed.  I'm not falling for that bait again... .More threats and fear... .  You know who's going to lose most?  The kids.  She can't see it, she paints herself white and the kids' savior against a terrible father.

There is just no upside here.  I've seen her when she's been happy.  I've seen her when life was fun... .where did she go?

From the vibe I get... .I would advise less contact with her.  I'm worried that the validation and things you are saying are missing the mark.

She is obviously on a rampage... .and using threats.  You job is to live your life, she will do what she will do.

FF

Hey Oz, Sorry to hear all the stress and pressure you are under.  I've been there, my friend.  Suggest you take a deep breath, pause and just let the chips fall.  Nothing you do or don't do today is as crucial as your W is making it sound.  She's creating artificial deadlines and using threats to twist your arm, yet so far you seem to be doing a pretty good job of holding your ground and resisting the bullying and baiting by declining to engage.

Your T sounds quite supportive and perceptive.  You are lucky to have her in your corner!

Is it possible for you to take a time-out and stay with a friend or family member?  Or go to a motel if you need to?  I used to keep an overnight bag in my car and you might want to do the same, just in case.

Hang in there and keep us posted,

LJ

FF, yes I am staying best I can to stay out of this fray.  The "What's done is done" text is the last note I received from her.  I did not reply.  I don't intend to contact in any way unless it pertains to the kids and it can't wait until tonight in person.  I do believe that at some point she will try to reengage and I will do what I can to hold my ground.  I am pretty busy at work so hopefully the day goes by quick.  You are probably right that my validation is not hitting the (moving) target.

LJ yeah its tough to stay focused today and I am going to try and find a few quiet minutes to clear my head.  I've been mostly ready for a long time to let the chips fall where they may if she ever followed through.  I guess only time will tell.  Yes I have a very good T, last week when I had to cancel my appointment during the work day she bugged the sh-t out of my until she could pin me down for another appointment because she was worried about me (for good reason).

I have a "go bag" in my trunk with a change of clothes too and fortunately my parents place is only 25 minutes away.  I have clothes there as well.  The only problem I run into is the few times I've used the "escape pod" it actually made things worse.  It may be best to stay hunkered down in the guest room at home.  The dog and cat come sleep with me .  I secretly giggle that I know that drives her nuts too...

As thought she has reached out again to throw another barb.  I do believe If I am reading this correctly it is blame shifting and a bit of nonsense.  Slight backstory, much of the slight of my T appointment last night was that by going it would cause uBPDw and D11 to have to go 5 minutes of the street to pick up D16.  The big rub was "I was not to inconvenience her or the family".  I put in place a mechanism to have my mother come pick up D16 as to "not inconvenience" anyone.  This probably missed the mark as she seems to have also taken it that I would choose my T over the family... .

this is what just rolled in:
"If you ask hey do you mind, and I say yes and you do it anyways all you've done is perpetuate the exact behavior that I've expressed I can't live with.
So I'm not.
I feel empowered to have taken action and ready.  I hope you are as well"

I'm trying to see her point that yes she told me she did not want me to have a T appointment during non work hours and I did it anyways.  At what point though is it ok to stand my ground and say that she was being unreasonable with her request?  In one year I have never once had a single dr appointment take time "after work".  Not one.  I cleaned the house all weekend, I hadn't really left anything for her to do... .  Am I being unreasonable here?

No, you are absolutely not being unreasonable. You are taking care of yourself. |iiii

Even our own therapy is threatening to our BPD partners. They know that they’re barely clinging to a veneer of sanity in the eyes of the world and they’re terrified of exposure.

I’ve tried to get my husband to attend individual therapy and he’s quit several times when I’ve started to notice beneficial changes. His therapists probably were getting too close to his core shame.

Oz,

Reading down through your posts, and I had a few thoughts, which is a dangerous thing ()... .

*Seems to me that your wife keeps "moving the goal posts" on you, in other words, she makes a "policy statement", ie' lays down the law according to her, and then when you try to comply, get along to get along, then she just changes the rules again, thus leaving you in a catch 22 situation.

*She seems to really like the "extinction burst" thing, ie' lawyers, the ":)" word, and just generally being unapproachable, hard to even communicate with, and constantly dysregulating.

*FF is correct, step back, .take a couple of steps even, and live your own life first, .you are going to have to set some strong boundaries, life / relationship policy's of your own, and stick to them, your wife is going to do "what she is going to do".

*Somewhere you have to find that line, and hold it, .I have read that if the sig other ever try's to control your access to therapy ("T", that this is most unacceptable, it is controlling, and even abusive in nature... .its your gig to improve you, not hers, .but one would hope that at some point, the two of you could go together to improve your r/s, but it does not seem that this scenario is possible right now.

*Seems she has you running up and down, to and fro, back and forth ie' "moving the goal posts" on you, so that you never get a break, and she keeps your compass spinning, this needs to stop.

*Believe me I know how utterly exhausting this can be, and it is a constant drain on your mind, heart and soul. But you have got to take care of you before you can even attempt to get anywhere with your wife, you have to be able to operate from a point of strength, and a solid piece of mind.

*Keep posting, and we will keep reading, and trying to help.

Hang in there Oz,

And no, you are certainly NOT being unreasonable,

Red5

Here is the thing... .compromise doesn't mean she always gets her way.

You tried to coordinate... .your wife declined to participate.  You took care of your child.

End of story.

Well... your wife decided to participate as long as her words "won" or "ruled."

You don't work that way... .life doesn't work that way.

Second thing:  I'm a bit concerned about the "standing your ground" comment and high emotions.

She may "charge" at you to "knock you off" your ground.  Your job is to "imagine being a bullfighter"  Expend just the smallest amount of energy and step to the side.  Looking to exit the area when the opportunity presents.

This is very different than "giving in".

FF

Hey Oz, Reality check: No, you're not being unreasonable.  You have every right to see your T, at whatever time is convenient for you.  Suggest you keep doing what you need to do to take of yourself, and "damn the torpedoes"!  The rest will sort itself out, regardless of her threats about "taking action."

LJ

Well you may just have a crystal ball.  She just texted me a pic of a day that I asked if I could grab the checkbook out of her purse... .she's standing on the landing looking down and is saying she took this pic and is now accusing me of stealing significant amounts of cash from her out of her purse... .  I didn't want to respond but in the face of a direct accusation of theft I felt I needed to unequivocally let her know that at no point have I ever stolen money from her.  I did what I could to step aside, now shes charging again that I financially controlled her... .doing my best to exit the situation... .  "damn the torpedoes" indeed.

 
Please don't directly respond.

perhaps...

"please refrain from baseless allegations via text... "

or ignore it...

She is trying to "hook" you... and is doing a good job I might add.

FF

Yup, indeed she is.  When talking with T last night she could see how as a very logical minded thinker I was having trouble not being able to make sense of her behavior and trying to still deal with her like she is a normal person.

Clearly that doesn't work.  Digging deep today into the reserves to keep the strength up... .

Hey Oz, You know this already, but don't forget that those w/BPD will turn up the heat and up the ante if they don't get the response/reaction that they seek.  Your task is to remain indifferent to these attempts to increase the pressure on you.  Most of the time, it's just a bluff anyway.  Suggest you continue to decline to engage and, instead, do what you need to do to protect yourself and stay above the fray.  LJ

EXACTLY... .stay disengaged.


At most... express befuddlement  that should work with your logic... .just express it doesn't make sense.  If she wants to BPDsplain it to you... she will.

FF

I would call my efforts last night mixed... .
I ignored all the crazy texts and insults from the afternoon all through my drive home.  I picked up D16 on time and got home for dinner.  I notice the paperwork for her rings is on the passenger seat of her car.  The last time that happened she had gone to try and sell her rings. 
Walk in the door all seems well D11 was happy a new toy for her b-day just arrived and it was time to sit down for dinner.
Dinner goes well.
After dinner there are some tense moments about D16's activity schedule and uBPDw overnight trip with some girlfriends but that seems to pass.

I spent the rest of the evening helping D16 with something then did some repair work on the house, clearly keeping away and disengaged with my wife.  I'm thinking... .so far so good.  Maybe I can actually get some sleep tonight.

A few times I was in and out of the room she was in and every time she was on her phone, clearly smiling about something only to look up at me, turn grouchy, put the phone down and go back to reading her book.  I mostly ignored this other than saying that she didnt need to put her phone away just because I walked in the room, I wasn't there to interrupt her.  This comment was ignored.

Finally towards bed time is when things and my emotions fell apart.  I was supposed to write an email to D16's school asking to follow up on a previous conference and forgot.  To me it didn't matter if I emailed them at 9 or 11 or frankly if I just waited and called them this morning, the end result would be the same.  Well she asked me if I had written it and I said no I forgot but I'll do it right now thanks for reminding me.  This is when it all started again, the accusations of not being able to take care of my children or be counted on to do anything for the family and she's so tired of picking up my slack... .  I kind of lost it.  I told her it didn't matter when the email was sent, and she just kept going.  Finally I snapped and said to her "listen to you, listen to how you talk, you think your sh-t don't stink, get off your high f-n horse.  You sh-t on me so much, look in a mirror you think you're some great catch?"

Now I'm like... .uh oh here comes the artillery... .but no.  She chuckles a bit and a few minutes later in almost like a young girl/teenage tone of voice calmly says to me "Well, if I'm not a catch for you and you arent a catch for me thats ok, I'm sure were catches for other people.  Its ok, lets move on then... "  I checked out after this and just went to bed without responding.

This morning she comes downstairs and is very chipper and I asked her what she was in such a good mood about and she simply replies nothing really needed for her to be feeling good... .

So here I am again wondering how someone can be so mean, hurtful and obviously also feeling pain flip back to happy.  She sent me another text this morning about its ok to untie a knot no matter how long it took you to tie it... .  this coupled with the lawyer threats have me wondering if she did file and thinks she's about to get one over on me... .I know she'll do what she does but I'm just left realizing how much this women really needs help...

She talks happily about moving on then tries to plan a family road trip during an upcoming school break... .  so confusing.

I too have noticed the distinct voice variations in my own u/BPD(w)... .while in the midst of interactions with her,

I have also read a lot on the supposed childhood trauma that may have caused this emergence of BPD behaviors in adulthood,

Continuing, I have also read many post here, and on other sites that equate the pw/BPD as "developmentally arrested/delayed" resultant from supposed/suspected childhood trauma(?)... .and that when the pw/BPD digresses, dysregulates, that you are now interacting with a child (developmentally), or a teenager (?), .is this the explanation for the marked variation in the voices we may hear?

All very interesting,

Hang in there Oz, we are listening, we don't get it just right every time, and we do reach our own limits of tolerance in these very complicated, and as well very stressful situations.

Take care of yourself, your wife is going to do what she is going to do, stay strong.

Red5,

My comments are at most... ."tweaks"  I think you understand about the "discussion" you had with her.  She got what she was after... .


i would stay away from questions about her feeling or suggesting feelings.

Why are you happy?  etc etc... .they are fastballs for dysfunction.

"What's new?" is better... .more open ended... .let her fill in blanks. 

Also... .I can see how a disordered person could think that a comment about "don't have to look up... just because it's me"... .well, I would do some sort of other direct greeting.

"Anything interesting on the internet?  "

"How is your evening going?"

if they ignore you... .don't get drawn in.

Thoughts?

FF

Red, she did have some childhood trauma that I won't get in to, but it was there and its pretty bad.  This isnt the first time she's tried to talk to me like I was her little brother or in some sort of strange "mommy voice".  Every time it happens I'm like whoa... .what was that?

FF, I'll try to "tweak" some things, I have found though lately no matter how I try, if I open my mouth at all she takes even good things to twist around.  Pretty much have stopped talking to her.  I need to get better at asking the question, being ignored and not letting that get me angry.  I can handle prolonged ST, but during these times when she continues to express that we don't connect or communicate I try, but it just goes flat.  When its not ST its nothing but BPD insults... .hard to carry on that conversation.

I've done good today, I haven't engaged or replied to any of the BS texts or memes she's sending me, just BIFF on stuff about the kids.
I can tell by her tone she is getting aggravated that I am not engaging.  What I'm not doing good on today is trying to understand the "hidden message" beneath all of it.  I just can't seem to find a validation target and this is really getting old.  I'm on really thin ice with myself on how much more I can give to bring this to some sort of direction before I just give up.  Tank is getting pretty empty.

Message received today:
"Stop looking for happiness in the same place you lost it"  *no clue here

"Happy (w/female coworkers) lunch hour" *recurring theme, she still picks at gf from high school that I haven't seen in 20+years

"My words will either attract a strong mind or offend a weak one." *Is this a dig at me? She thinks I feel offended, and I see this as some of her NPD traits

"If someone corrects you, and you feel offended, then you have an ego problem.  Like your lasagna" *again she must think I'm offended?  Maybe a bit, its not like a "normal" correction.  "What is this? this is some wimpy ass lasagna"  I'm pretty sure I took offense to the tone and demeanor after I tried to do something to take a burden off of her.  I didn't put enough layers on.  If she had just pointed that out to me, I probably would have laughed and agreed... .

I think I see a bit of our disconnect.

Please don't evaluate your communications based on the reaction of a disordered person.

My goal for you... Oz... .is that you are thoughtful and reflective about things you can say that are neutral and helpful.

you "Hey... what's new on the internet"  

her "mork and mindy are getting divorced and I let our crazy aunt out of the basement... .oh by the way... I filed for divorce today... "

Yep... .mark that up as a win.

her...  "oh come here... check out this article I'm reading about meat loaf.   I was thinking about making it tomorrow.  Hey... .how about your share your steak with me tonight... ."

Yep... .just as good.  It's a win.

Now... on the first one.  It may be appropriate to express some befuddlement as you disengage.  I would hope you don't need advice on the second.

Do you get how either way you were thoughtful and communicated directly with her... .vice chasing around crazyness... .thinking if I just said the right thing she would be fine?

Thoughts?

FF

Hey oz,

Agree w/FF:


It sounds like you "lost it" last night.  In other words, she succeeded in drawing you into the arena and bringing you down to her level, which is usually a No-Win situation for us Nons.  Suggest you try to stay centered, above the fray.  Adding fuel to the fire only results in a conflagration, right?

LJ

Sometimes a well place eye roll, and an "oh brother" is the best way to go, .disordered is disordered, ignore ignore ignore ignore, .don't fall for the bravo sierra, .and the "gotcha moment".

And then there is the straight up eye contact response, with a few seconds of blissful silence, followed with the sharp off the tongue response "really dear" (put your hands on your hips when you say this, or else cross your arms)... .and then the DEEP belly laugh, followed by the loud and obnoxious knee slap laugh, and then walk away, still laughing... .and then playfully insert, "you crack me up"... ."Wow you are a friggen comedian", ."YOU could make Mr. Sigmund Freud himself have a dog gone nervous breakdown"... ."you should do this act professionally"... .(keep walking away).

When I was on instructor duty, there was a rule, .ALWAYS keep the students guessing, "is he crazy or not, this guy, .you NEVER know where is coming from"... ."don't ever let your guard down around Staff Sergeant XXX"... .

When I am getting the treatment, I either ignore it, or I disarm her with oblique sarcasm, and steal as much thunder as I can, .and then leave the area post haste !

Basically, ALWAYS show strength, thick skin, untouchable psychological demeanor... .hang tough Oz,

Red5,

Oz,

You've been quiet for a while.  How are you doing?

WW

Hey WW!  Been struggling.  Work is insane, home life very painful.  Been on reading but zero energy to write, and frankly I'm at a loss for words lately. She went away with friends Friday and Saturday.  I woke up Friday and Saturday morning to just me and the girls in the house.  Man, I was bouncing around with so much energy on Friday that my employees were laughing at me.  Saturday was great, made them waffles and ran a million errands... .Once uBPDw got home the depression sank back in.  That awful stuck feeling.  I could recycle, sure, her actions kind of hint at it.  I don't want to, I haven't wanted to.  I know whats waiting for me if I do it again.  Yet I have been so lonely, and so devoid of love/validation that I'm really terrified of letting the FOG role back in.

I know that as I detach I'm probably not being the best at communication with her and that feeds the monster.  I'm struggling with trying to be the best me and I know I'm failing a bit which has me stuck in my own FOG, then when she "reminds" me of my shortcomings I give them too much weight. 

I'm afraid of not having enough of myself available to push through this and do what I know needs to be done.

I've been keeping tabs on your story, sounds like you still have your hands full, best of luck!
-Oz

Oz,

Glad to hear from you!  I can totally relate to having that energy when I could just peacefully exist with my daughters.  Heck, even the lady that cuts my hair noticed the energy I had when my wife was away one time!  Yes, there's a message there.

One thing that I think I could have done better at over the last couple of years was be more honest with my wife about how badly things were working for me.  To tell my wife that I couldn't continue unless things got better.  I was honestly too afraid of the consequences that she'd bring down, and just tried to keep the peace, even as I was detaching.  How honest are you being with your wife?  And not just once, but consistently so she can hear the message?  Is there any chance that if you are honest and consistent, she might make some changes?  Either way, from my experience, I'm thinking that even if you take heat for it, making sure you're honest with her will help with your feeling of integrity and how you feel about yourself if there ever is a split.

WW

First I'd have to be able to consistently talk to her.  Keep in mind I've been painted black for 3 years now.  I've tried being honest with her and it is always turned around on me.  Still, can't get a word in about her needing to change, or seek help.  Continues to believe I set her up to be arrested for DV, still tells me she can't begin to heal until I make massive changes.

I just don't want to be with her and this nonsense anymore, and she at times mirrors that back.  Yet when she asks to have "logical" discussions surrounding custody/finances they are anything but "logical".  So round and round I go.  She's so unpredictable that I have to fear the worst (which from what I can gather would be horrifying and destructive for everyone).  My choice? Suffer rage, blame, loveless, marriage devoid of any intimacy or complete destruction of everyone's well being.  Its easy to see why the depression is setting back in.

Oz,

Do you see nuance or a grand canyon between trying to convince her to get help and convincing her that you won't deal with BPD anymore?

What I see is two people pointing at each other and making the point over and over and over and over and over and over... .(get the point) that it's you and it's NOT me.

As opposed to saying... "This r/s is not working I am making changes, I would appreciate it if you would make changes as well."  And then YOU make changes, regardless.

FF

Oz... .I'm a little late to this discussion, but I've read and commented on your posts before.  You have a pretty dang rough situation - no two ways about it.

one thing about your comment I quoted above that's concerning is that you seem to be held hostage by these threats. 

To get yourself out of that funk, I'd suggest taking some time to think through just what she could or would do that you consider "the worst" and think about what you could do to counter it.

take some precautions to this end... .get a voice recorder that goes in your pocket.  take snapshots of finances and spending.  get in the habit of surreptitiously recording more information about what when on, who said and did what, etc., so you have a story to counter hers with.  And try to reduce more of these key or critical discussions to writing, so she can't lie and spin it into something worse.

Here's one thing that helped me reduce stress in my own experience, about things ending:

- wife had been raging off and on about some personal heirlooms and knick knacks I was holding on to, calling this "creepy" and "weird."  stuff like my old HS varsity letters, college momentos, Grandpa's Bluejacket manual from his navy days, old family pics, etc.  I discovered my wife was quietly tossing things without telling me.  actually she only threw out some old t-shirts I liked, and then of course denied it.  anyway, I found and paid for a personal storage unit near my home, moved all my personal stuff into it, and rented it using my work address so nothing goes to my home, and pay cash every month.  or you can get a PO box.  I put a few trusted friends and family on the lease, and let them know where it is, in case something happened to me, so they could keep it until my oldest goes to college. 

I also put my "bug out bag" there.

 I found that just doing all this helped me relax a bit.  once and a while, when I get a sec, I go by there, look at my things, and chill out.  It's kinda like a moment to remind myself I am not defined solely as her husband.  I'm an individual who had a life before that, and could have one again after it.

I do see your point!  Thanks FF

I am making changes, I am staying in therapy.  Keeping D16 in T, working on getting D11 comfortable with it too.  I'm going again tonight, and you guessed it... .she's raging on me that I should have decided to meet her for a drink after work to help her buy valentine's gifts for the kids instead.  This of course is after a day of negative attacks and bullying.  I just simply replied I don't want to have a drink with her when she's angry and attacking me.

Of course this also would have required me to use the crystal ball she believes I have in my back pocket.

Part of the problem is that when I make changes and step away from the BPD even that is turned on me saying that I no longer make any efforts to be part of the marriage anymore.  The marriage she wants is full BPD.

Pete, thank you for chiming in!  I hope you are hanging in there.  I think the worst she could do is get me fired from my job... and as the provider of health insurance and pretty much everything in my name it would really hurt the family and financially ruin me at this point.  Pretty hard to guard against her, she can be scarily vindictive.  I'm fortunate enough that I have my parents condo available to me (20 minutes away).  All my autographs and memorabilia is already over there as well as about a weeks worth of clothes.  It is nice knowing I have a spot to bug out too, but when I have done it before it comes at a cost to my kids.  This makes me hesitant to go again without some legal precedence.  Good for you for getting prepared.  Thank you for sharing.

-Oz

I would suggest adding that you are disappointed today didn't work out and offer to schedule a date for later.  Very matter of factly... .

FF

Oz,

Would you say that your personal strength is trending upward or downward over the last month?

Would you say the strength of your position at work is trending upward or downward over the last month?

WW

Seeing a therapist is a personal decision.  No one has to give you permission to go.

Control issues are big with pwBPD.

Hey Oz, Concur w/AskingWhy.  As I've said before, you're the Captain of your own ship, so do what you need to do for yourself.

LuckyJim

Thanks, I know I'm the captain but I do need reminders from time to time.  Its becoming clear that the only way that is going to work is her way and I know I cannot survive full BPD any longer.  She tore into me last night and started screaming about lies that I know for a fact are true, she ripped into me about financials where I have statements in black and white and she still says they're not true... .

She screamed about seeing a T every week means that I'm crazy and she doesnt want me. I JADED but I just couldn't let it go.  I had to remind her that 1: I only go every 2-3 weeks and the 2: D16 goes every week and asked her if she believed D16 was crazy?  Her reply was that I need to see a P for meds instead because I'm clearly in trouble.  I asked her about seeing a T and she laughed it off manically and said the only thing wrong in her life was me.

Her behavior is just awful and the fact that she hasn't contributed any money to the family since September is giving me some heartache.

To WW point I would say my personal strength has been decreasing in part because the financial side of things are getting really tight.
I don't know if that is part of her plan, to use her money as a wedge to control me or if she's just really lost reality.

According to her I should be paying her a salary for all she does around the house, and since I don't she gets to keep all of her money that she works for without contributing a dime, and still freely spends my money.  I've asked her repeatedly to contribute and she just tells me to get a court order.  I can't get into the BPD head to figure out the end game here.  I know the real end game is increased financial stress, hits to my credit history, and eventually bankruptcy if something drastic doesn't happen.  I don't think she can see this, or if she does and thats the point of it... .wow that really says something about her.

I know I JADED a lot last night, but I think I may have done it on purpose.  I think she had been pretty quiet over the last few days and I felt myself slipping a bit into the FOG.  I needed to stand my ground a little and I needed a stark reminder of how close the BPD simmers below the surface and that despite the work I'm doing on myself and attempting the tools, nothing has changed on her end.

As far as work goes, I'm still under scrutiny but they've given me lead on a couple of big items.  I think if I can get to the office on time in the morning for the next month or so and not screw up these projects I'll be on more stable ground.  I know uBPDw wants to disrupt this area of my life as well.  She'd like me to find magical work in an all male corporation that pays $250k/year and lets me work from home 4 out of 5 days a week.

I can use the tools to try to keep things from exploding and managing emotions from time to time, but her vision of what I should be making our marriage to be is so far out of touch with reality that I cannot see a way to bring any resolution to this.

Hey Oz, and to echo Wentworth, how are you doing, hope you are managing alright.

AskingWhy wrote, Seeing a therapist is a personal decision.  No one has to give you permission to go.
Control issues are big with pwBPD.

Yes, absolutely, control control control control !... .I have read that anytime your partner/sig other tries to "control" any access to a therapist, or counselor, and then wants to know everything that was discussed, and then proceeds to dissect it all, and use the harvested information to further hurt (abuse)... well that is abuse in of itself.

Like digging through your phone and then giving you the third degree over x/y/z & 1234, or reading your emails, or tracking your social media.

ALL bad news when you live with a pw/BPD(u?)

... .one may say, "but I've nothing to hide"... .but snooping is snooping, and I don't do it to my u/BPDw... .it irritates me to no end... .

Yes, .all classified as a forms of abuse.

Keep us posted Oz, .as I too know; it helps me immensely to be able to come here and vent, .but I have to be in a secure area (work mostly)... .as my u/BPDw controls all my time when I am home, and Lord knows what she would do, say, and think if she ever knew of my activities here.

Glad to hear from you again,

p.s. ~ apparently I am a hoarder, so all my life collections are now out in the shed /attic in our back yard, safely stowed away in "man town"... .away from u/BPDw's efforts to subjugate, and eliminate  !

Red5

Hey Oz, You're right; you can't go on like this indefinitely.  What are your gut feelings?  What would you like to see happen?  At the end of the day, it's about your happiness, right?

LuckyJim

Hey Oz,

I can certainly relate to what you wrote above, .remember a post a while back on what it would take to make one leave the r/s... .the "last straw" as it were... .one of mine was financial sabotage, and the willful intent to do it... .yeah, if s/o ever tried to make us homeless, and ruin everything I have worked so hard to build, and thus be able to provide for my family, & children (sustained)... .that would probably be it for me.

Life continues to be tentative, and tenuous for me too... .never know what may happen next, my u/BPDw has been talking to her own (foo) mother again, so I have to watch close to see if she has been triggered over something, .lots of drama over in her (foo) family currently, more than usual... .tools tools tools... .know them, use them !

Even then sometimes it all caves in on me 

Someone wrote on another post about when BPDw leaves for a few days... .and how free he felt, was able to accomplish things, catch up, and "clear the decks"... .boy oh' boy, that's me too... .seems I come alive when I am not around u/BPDw... .I become happy, creative, and "nurturing" to others as well as myself... .what does that say ?

Hang tough Oz, we are listening, and you ain't alone Brother !

Red5

 

I add, ."happiness" = "survival" ! (?)

Thoughts ?

Red5

Several men who post here have had severe financial stress.  FF finally had to separate his finances so that his wife had no access to his income.  He provides as needed, but she can't simply go into the account and spend it as she pleases.  She has her own income, and he has nothing to do with her activity on her own account.

If your wife has not contributed to the household finances since September, and it is putting you into financial stress, you might be at the point of opening your own account and redirecting your direct deposit to the new account.  You can then use the joint account as you choose -- you can deposit, you can say that you will deposit an equal amount to what your wife deposits, etc.

I forget -- does she work?

Should you file for divorce before she does, your lawyer will begin by asking for financial information.  A request will be made to her/her lawyer for financial disclosure.  If she has an account to which she is directing her money, she will be obligated to disclose it.  If you get to a point of a deposition, she will be asked why she has not contributed her financial resources to the household expenses since September, and where those funds are.  False information in a deposition is grounds for perjury.

How long did this go on?

Did you attempt any sort of boundary enforcement?

FF

Well... .she has access... .she understands that talking to me nicely has the option of opening up my wallet.

Consistent boundary enforcement has clarified her understanding that my walled NEVER opens under threat or disrespect.

I can't understand why (I kinda do in an intellectual way) it took this for my wife to "get nice" about money.  And she does contribute to a few things here and there... .buys some groceries.  It's not something we focus on.

The couple of times she has asked for something... .it has been pretty "formal".  She asked nicely, I thought about it  and said ok, she said thank you... .I said you are welcome... .and the thing or event was enjoyed.

FF

Right, FF -- you have created a way to have a civil conversation about it!

ozmatoz, my DH is a financial advisor.  In the best of marriages, when clients ask, he recommends a financial structure of His/Hers/Ours accounts, with direct deposit for each partner's funds going into the sole account, then a joint account for household or other (children's expenses, etc.) with funds being transferred from each partner based on agreements (or in FF's case, a civil conversation!).

 

Wow, thank you everyone for checking in with me, I'm really feeling on edge and its comforting to have a place to drop some questions and get a reality check.

LJ, yes it is about my happiness but at what cost to my children's happiness?  uBPDw cannot see that her actions to control and punish me actually hurts the family she "claims" she's trying to save.  I think Red5 may be on target at the moment that I feel like I'm in survival mode.  I cling to hope that happiness comes later.

Red5 thanks for using the word sabotage.  It helped put this in perspective for me.  That really is what it is.  Regardless of whether or not she can comprehend or realize it, she's going to sink the ship she's riding in.  Throw in the fact that she harasses me over seeing a T?  That is just plain cruel.   She did go away friday and saturday.  Two mornings waking up without her in the house and ahhhhh peace.  It was grand.

FF, she raged for probably 45 minutes or so with a couple minute breaks in there.  I just let her yell.  I kind of stood there and didnt reply much.  When there seemed to be a pause I walked out and told her I would talk to her when she was calm.  She never calmed, I never talked to her again last night.

Gagrl, I would have set up something like that a long time ago, she had some money troubles and old loans that took way to long to straighten out.  Just as I got everything straight things really hit the fan and my attorney advised me to keep everything in my name just in case things went south.  They are going very south... .

I'm leaving thursday morning for a 5 day road trip with D16, I can't wish any harder to get the clock to move faster!

This is why you feel the way you do... .that much yelling just wears a person down. 

5 minutes... .that's all you've got to turn the conversation.  Use a stopwatch if you want.

"I'm not going to have this conversation now."

"Stop this conversation now."

walk out

Please don't focus much on the words, the matter little compared to you actually taking your ears somewhere else.  Perhaps check back in 10 min. 

This will be an earth shattering change in your life and your relationship.  No more yelling.  Completely under your control.

OK... .I get it... .drastically reduced yelling.   Eventually there may be no more.

I rarely exit anymore.  In fact, my wife is the one that has exited lately.  Which is ... interesting.  She will kinda say something about my motivations or something and leave. 

"Since you aren't going to listen to me anyway... .I'm leaving"  or something like that.

I ask later in a friendly way if she wants to talk.  Sometimes she does.

FF

Oz, enjoy the trip with D16, that sounds fantastic!

I was already composing my response in my head when I saw that formflier beat me to it.  Instead of just saying she needs to calm down (which will get her more upset) and then leaving (which will make her feel abandoned and stew about it), say you need to take a break for 5 minutes.  It's about you, not about her.  Don't make her feel like you're trying to control her.  Then come back.  Then 10 minutes, then come back.  She'll see the pattern.  She'll see if she wants you to stay, she has to be calm.  Don't just sit there and take it.  That way she doesn't have to be calm, and you stay.  Can you see how fundamentally different what formflier and I are proposing is?

WW

And... .WW and I are basing our recommendations on two fundamental truths.

1.  There is a limited ability for a pwBPD to manage their emotions. 

2.  They really want you to stick around, on a fundamental level.


I get it number 2 can be hard to understand, if they want you why would they propose divorce and other r/s doom so often?  It is perplexing.  Yet... .if they want you divorced... .why aren't you divorced yet? 

It is reading tea leaves, but watching the pattens of your relationship is very similar to patterns in my r/s.  How can that be, unless there is a common bond that "connects" the pwBPD.

FF

I usually don't let the argument go for that long, neither does she.  I usually exit, she calms for a bit then finds me wherever I am in the house and starts up again.  I try to move to another part of the house... repeat repeat.  Is it ok that I'm finding out that I'm just not cut out to "gray rock" all the time?


This part really gets to me.  This is the part that has pushed me to the brink of divorce over and over and I'm staring it in the face.  I have a call with my lawyer this afternoon... .yes that call.

I find myself crumbling.  I didn't want my life to be like this, nor to have a marriage end like this.  I have to keep my sadness from clouding the facts that its not my wife I'm sad about, its the situation.

Hey Oz, I get it.  Like you, I frequently played "hide and seek" w/my Ex.  She wouldn't let me sleep and would keep me up all night chasing me around the house.  It was abusive; sleep deprivation, like isolation, is a technique for breaking someone down.  Once, during the Summertime, I slept on a lawn chair outside in my backyard because at least the neighbors would see her raging if she decided to pursue.  It's not fun.  I spent many a night at the local motel.  I'm with you, friend.

LuckyJim

Oz,

I wish you would be at the point of saing... .I never let it go more than 5 minutes.  When she "finds" you somewhere else, no reason to let it go 30 seconds.  I would be proactive... .let her know that you will or won't talk about and end the interaction.

The "intermittent reinforcement" is emboldening her. 

Perhaps let her chase you once, then lock door and/or involve authorities. 

FF
 

Exactly, this is consistent with what FF and I are saying, just an additional facet of it.  She is being rewarded for coming after you.  If she calms and will be coming after you in 6 minutes, you head back to her in 5 minutes, so she know's you're coming back.  Keep thinking about behaviors and rewards.  If you get back to her before she comes after you, you're rewarding her for not chasing you, and if she's calm and you stay, you're rewarding her for calming down.  You can even give her some enthusiasm and warmth, saying that you are glad you can spend some time with her.

I am again reminded of this parenting book my therapist is having me read, "Transforming the Difficult Child:  The Nurtured Heart Approach."  Basically, it talks about filling your time with the difficult person with neutral or positive comments, and not giving them any negative attention for misbehaviors, just boundary enforcement.  They have to learn not just that negative behaviors aren't rewarded, but they have to have positive behavior to go to.  And you have to really work hard to give them neutral to positive attention.  You don't have to wait until they do something good, you can actually reward the absence of bad behavior.  For example, if D12 is sitting on the couch doing nothing, I can say, "Hey, I really appreciate how you're being respectful this afternoon."  I'm fabricating a success for her.  I don't have to wait until that rare moment when she does something very nice.  This really works.  The neutral comments are especially helpful in the beginning when someone is suspicious about compliments.  You simply make an irrefutable statement with no judgement, like "I see you're wearing the red shirt today."  That gives them attention.  I know, with a pwBPD, even a neutral statement can be twisted -- that technique might take some extra work to adapt

WW

Many of the rewards can be counter-intuitive, which is why they need a great deal of thought and understanding.

What I look at your r/s, this seems to be the central dynamic that needs to be broken.  My was paranoia and  accusations.

That doesn't mean everything is fixed after "breaking" the dynamic, it means the r/s is pliable again.

Does that make sense?

FF

Indeed, this has been mentally taxing.  I get WW's point of rewarding "normal behavior" and I do that already.  I thank her in front of the kids for cooking dinner, If I see her feeding the dogs I thank her.  If I notice the dishes were done I thank her.  Any of the normal day to day stuff families take care of I thank her.  In the morning when we're both running around like crazy with the kids (and not fighting) I get her coffee ready or at the very least get the coffee ready to go with a cup out for her.

I would think these "rewards" would be a good thing.  I do see the fighting and rewarding her with my time when she comes after me.
FF paranoia is a huge part in my r/s too.  Just this morning I received a text wanting to know why I had packed a pair of dress/work clothes in my suitcase for my upcoming trip.  Every time I go away she searches through everything.  I simply wouldn't respond even though she asked 8 times.  My final response was a bit invalidating but it stopped the question.  I reminded her that if she had been listening to me and D16 over the last few weeks she would know why the clothes were packed.  It ended there.

I've been trying to break the dynamic but she is relentless.  I just want some peace.
Today of all days I have it thrown in my face that her previous affair partner reached out (she showed me yesterday) hoping she was ok.
Then its thrown in my face that her "ex-boyfriend" has made more effort than her husband.  I know this is just more jousting, but really, when is enough enough? 

I reminded her that actions like that are not what makes me want to put any effort in.  Her reply "Its not my responsibility to make you want to put forth an effort.  Thats on you"  I get it that effort is my choice, but can she really not understand how her actions affect that choice?  She is looking for a "reward" for this action (she'll get none).  Then later I'm the bad guy again for not rewarding her.

I'm pulling out what little hair I have left... .

For paranoid worrying express concern about their feelings and give no details on the question.

pants question

"It intuitively seemed like a good thing to pack.  Why do you ask?"

FF

 I don't want to fan the flames, but have to say "I'm sorry man, that totally sucks that you had to hear that on Valentine's Day."

Sorry, I have to award the point to her on this one.  At least, in the Land of Oz, that was a misstep.

No, she cannot.

How do you look in a baseball cap?  :)

Have fun on that trip with D16!  Are you looking at colleges?

WW

Oz!

Sending positive karma your way this morning... .

Been away a while, and back here reading your posts,

formflier writes in regards to the "pants question":

"It intuitively seemed like a good thing to pack.  Why do you ask?"

That is an excellent reply, I do this as well, well maybe a bit different approach... .as in'... .wife says; "Why did you do pack your x-model phaser for this trip you’re going on"... .I reply, AFTER a short pause, and maybe a short look off into space, and in another direction other than hers, as if deep in thought, waiting a few moments/seconds to re-engage her... .

"Seemed like a good idea at the time", .then I immediately redirect (toss a shiny object) and I may say something completely off subject, to quote "Monty Pythons Flying Circus"... ."and now for something completelyyyyy different!"... .like... ."I find it very interesting that the Saturn V rocket is the most powerful man made machine ever created"

... .as in' throw her off her line of questioning a little, she is like “huh”, what in the world is he talking about”… and I may launch yet another shiny object to once again put distance in between her, and her last line of questioning,  as in'

... ."in a few more weeks, I am going to get the boat engine ready for summer, I need to get some parts for it, I think I need a fuel line, a couple of clamps, maybe a spark plug, and a flux capacitor too; and do a good tune-up, what did you do with the last issue of Boating in the Free World, I need to check on something I read in that issue"

… thus leaving her a bit befuddled, and off the original intent of her questioning (peace for me)… works very well for me.

Today of all days I have it thrown in my face that her previous affair partner reached out (she showed me yesterday) hoping she was ok.

Then its thrown in my face that her "ex-boyfriend" has made more effort than her husband.  I know this is just more jousting, but really, when is enough enough?

Wentworth wrote to you: I don't want to fan the flames, but have to say "I'm sorry man, that totally sucks that you had to hear that on Valentine's Day."

Yeah… that would pretty much p-i-s-s me o-f-f… you are a better Man than me Oz, I’d have probably slipped my rail at hearing that Brother.

Then I would then have had to impose sanctions, and other angry countermeasures reslutant.

Sounds like you are going to have a great time with your D16, that’s awesome, enjoy them, as they do grow up way too fast !

Red5

Hey oz, I'm really sorry to hear you're going through all this. Everyone posting has great advice, IMO. My ex tried the "my ex contacted me" thing too towards the end of our marriage. I think he was trying to make me jealous or something. By that point, I was praying someone would "take" him from me, even if it was his ex-fiance from twenty years ago. In this case, my reaction was "Oh, that's nice. Tell her I said hi!" Then I went back to what I was doing. It seemed to totally throw him for a loop. I think he was hoping for an outburst or something. I'll admit that it felt good to throw him off for once. Maybe she's trying to make you jealous and get a reaction out of you. I think that any reaction (good or bad) makes them feel something. It may make them feel in control or powerful or something like that and I think that may be why they do it. I think my ex thrives on drama because it probably makes him feel alive - like an endorphin hit.

Oh man, the paranoia! It drove me nuts too! He would go through my work phone routinely (boy did he rage when I changed the passcode), listened in on my work conversations at home (I get called after hours when there are problems at work), went through my purse routinely, went through my drawers, went through my emails, used the smartphone to track my whereabouts at all times (why aren't you in your work building right now?), tracked my ATM uses (I noticed you took money out at exactly 12:45pm), why did you get coffee on the way to work (I saw you), etc. It got pretty bad. It got to the point to where I was tempted to sarcastically text him every time I went to the bathroom. I think he has major abandonment issues which is probably why he did all this. It doesn't excuse it by any means but I think it explains some of it.

I tried to tell him several times that all this behavior was just pushing me away. He never seemed to grasp that and he just got worse.

Having read the entire thread, I think it's all manipulation on their part probably to keep us on our toes. It's like they thrive on chaos and drama. That's when I learned (the hard way) to react indifferent to any and everything he said to me. It wasn't easy by any means. Especially when he would then call me a cold, heartless, callous b***h who is incapable of feeling emotions or empathy for anyone and so on. This is where knowing yourself, taking care of your mental/emotional health will help you not buy into her attacks on your character and parenting. Personally, I labeled that as projection on his part. Then I'd respond with something like "you can think whatever you want to. meh. whatever. there's no point in discussing it" and walked away. Not saying that's a good thing but that's what I did for my peace of mind.  Yeah he'd try to escalate but I worked on and refused to give him the satisfaction of an outburst of any kind. Eventually he'd stop. 

With my therapists help, I learned to imagine an invisible shield every time he came into the room. With practice, anything he said to me didn't get to me. It helped me remain indifferent. Sometimes I would imagine him standing in front of me as a little boy, mostly because he was acting like a child. Other times I'd imagine a cartoon bubble coming out of his head. I heard everything he said but it didn't "get" to me. I don't know if you've tried anything like this or if it would help you or not.

Even though I've been divorced for a couple of years now, there are times when I still try to wrap my head around something he says or does that makes absolutely no sense to me. Most of the time I chalk it up to "he's delusional". It really does seem like his reality is completely different than mine and we speak a different language. The words we use seem to have different meanings to each other. For example, when I say he abused me I am referring to his controlling, manipulating, isolating, shaming, physical aggressive, etc. behavior. When he says I abused him, it seems he considers abuse to be anytime I disagree with him or he doesn't get his way. For example, I simply would write to him that I disagree with his unfounded accusations. He then replied that what I just wrote was abusive! It's so bizarre! A lot of times I find myself just shaking my head and walking away. I have better things to use my energy on. It took some time for me to get to that point, though.

I hope some of this helps. Hang in there.

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