BPDFamily.com

Where I last left off: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=318964.0

I got a call on my way home from work today by my mom's new social worker. My mom got bad enough that they removed her from the strip motel she's been living in for the past year. The SW said several times "she's mine now,  she's safe." This is on the next county over. 

The new SW said that she's good friends with the other SW. What was weird is that she was so apologetic. "I know you and your mom have a history.  I'm sorry I'm calling you,  but  you are her only family member,  and it would be good to have a contact person. We want to authorize someone so we can put a wandering monitor on her and also someone to contact of something changes in her condition.  We also want to know of it's ok to medicate her.  If you don't want to be that person,  it's ok,  but otherwise someone from the state would step in to be her guardian."

I said that I had no problem.  Otherwise,  I'd let my mom go to a pauper's grave eventually? I didn't say that.  When it comes time,  I'll pay for cremation and bury her ashes next to those of her husband on her property. I really wish that my mother had never told me that he had molested both of his daughters.  It ruined my memory of the closest person that I had kind of father feelings for. 

Curse BPD and over sharing.  I'll respect her wish,  though,  and let God sort it out.  Love covers a multitude of sins... .and he saved me and my mom when I was a teen from my mother's foolishness.  Living in a camper on his property without electricity was better than in the barn. At least he had a generator for lights and TV at night. 

I have a few days off with the kids at the end of the month.  It's 130 miles away,  but I'm thinking of going to see her.  The SW said she's gotten way worse. I am going to bring the purse she accused me of stealing.  She left it on my home when she fled. Maybe that will soothe her.  Maybe it will trigger good memories. 

I'll have my kids with me,  on trimester break. I won't bring them in unless I deem it safe of I go on first. 

I can't imagine what she's thinking.  She is a nurse who worked skilled elder care and I know her worst fear was ending up on this situation. 

Turkish I don't know what to say except that sounds really rough. I'm sure I'm just scraping the tip of the iceberg when I say you clearly have very complicated feelings about your mother. Wishing the visit goes as smooth as it can.

My mother wasn't formally diagnosed with anything but depression (nearly the entire side of the family had some kind of mental illness), but looking back now I think it's highly possible she had a personality disorder or even BPD. Either way, it made our relationship hard. I went to see her the last few days before she died of cancer at 60. She was mostly gone and barely recognized me. 

My point I guess is that no matter what they did to us we still care about them and it hurts.

Turkish- I know this is hard, but from my point of view, I think it is a blessing.

I know that you tried to help your mother, and even had her living with you.

Your mother is getting the kind of supervision and assistance she needs- from people who are trained and paid to do this. It isn't in the way she wanted, but it is better than the situation she was in.

Hi Turkish. 

The way this situation is playing out is really the best way it could have given the behavior and choices of your mother up to this point.  That is so damn sad. 

Did the SW mention specifics when she said your mom is "way worse"?

 

Oh my, Turkish, this must be so overwhelming for you. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

I agree with PP that this may be a blessing. If she has deteriorated cognitively to the point they are having her wear a wander guard then she definitely shouldn't be living alone in a hotel. Now she wont only be in safe location, but she will have someone monitoring her mental and physical health.

Go when and if you feel prepared to see her. Care conferences can be done over the phone, documents faxed, and if they really need to talk to you in person there is still no requirement that you visit with her.

I have been a long term/geriatric/dementia/palliative care nurse for ten years, believe me there is no judgment here.

I agree that this is the best thing Notwendy,  Like my T said two years ago,  "your home is not a hospital and she needs a hospital."

They didn't specify about her condition, Harri.  I'll show up expecting anything.  She may not want to see me and that's OK. I'll bring her purse that she left at my house when she fled,  the purse she accused me of stealing, over a year later according to her wacky former neighbor.  I'll have my kids with me, but I'll visit first.  I don't want to traumatize them.  I have my ex to answer to also,  though she would have to real power over me if the kids said anything.  I can take static. 

RDMaggie, thanks for the support as a professional. Being a single mom RN, I spent a lot of time in nursing homes sleeping on those awful vinyl couches on rough hospital blankets. I liked the pudding and talking to old people though. 

I'm trying to set up my retirement to "die on the hill" like my mom always told me she wanted to,  rather than being a prisoner in a facility like the ones she worked at for so many years.  When I was in my 30s, she worked an Alzheimers care facility.  Even given my experience with nursing homes,  I found it a bit scary.

I found a couple of bad Yelp reviews of the facility today. Only two. On their Facebook page, I found mostly positive and only one negative. 

The admissions person emailed me asking if she could fax or mail me documents to sign.  I said yes. 5 hours later, no response. I told her to email. I can sign,  scan and email back.

I'll know more in two weeks.  I think I owe a visit. This is the woman who adopted me,  a handicapped, transracial kid from foster care, as a single mother,  at a time when all three were controversial in the mid 70s. 

Turkish, your mother must have had a strong spirit in the 70's, one that saw beyond any controversy when she chose to love you in the best way she could. Know also, that perhaps the visit is for you, as well as her. However, in her state of mental illness, she can not live on her own, and for your own sanity, she can not live with you.

I feel a similar way about my own mother. I would help an elderly parent if I could but when I did visit to help my parents when my father was ill, I saw how seriously mentally ill my mother was. Most of their visits, they were together and I didn't see the full picture of my mother's behavior. During this time, he was in the hospital and I spent an extended visit alone in the house with my mother.

I am not a trained mental health worker. Even if I was, my position as my parents' child made it that they didn't listen to me- I was their daughter, how dare I tell her what to do. I can manage an out of control child, but I can't put my mother in "time out" or enforce any kind of order or discipline. If I tell her to do something it triggers her. So simple things like " let's go pick up your car" will trigger her into an argument that lasts longer than just getting the car would. When I tried to help her with budgeting, she accuses me of forcing her to hand over her money. I don't want her money, I am trying to help but to her that feels invalidating from her child. She needs 24/7 care. Fortunately she has the means to hire people who are trained to care for her.

If I am not her caretaker, I can still visit, be in contact, and I still do. I think skilled caregivers are better equipped to provide the level of assistance she needs and it seems this is the case for your mother too. She will always be your mother regardless.

Hi Turkish,

I'm sure sorry that your mom is shifting and changing and requiring more care. I just spoke with one of my coworkers who was commenting on the slow but steady decline of her mom. It's tough no matter whether you have a mentally healthy mom or not. They are still our moms, and it just plain old stinks.

Some extra hugs for you, and prayers as well.

 
 
Wools

My mother's stepmother was yNPD/BPD and could not tolerate my mother being involved in her finances. My mom received a call from SGM's doctor at one point, informing her that SGM was in the hospital, and what was Mom going to do about her care/needs. My mom had to explain that SGM had never legally adopted her, and she (my Mom) had no legal right nor financial ability nor influence to handle SGM's affairs.  The doctor, who had SGM as a patient for at least 30 years, had no idea of the actual family dynamics.

It's impossible sometimes to do what we would be willing to do, if the PDs didn't get in their own way.

I'm waiting for them to send me admission forms to sign.  I didn't check my work email from home this weekend.  They say I can sign them.  I went through this almost a year ago and they never sent them.  My mom refused to sign them then.  The facility bills the state (welfare or medicaid), but my mom has medicare which will pay for it.  I'll ask about social security.  She was getting about $1400/mo (and complaining for years how she should get more... .even though she chose to retire at 62). With no mortgage and car payment,  that was enough to live on securely.  But for the hoarding and financial impulsiveness. $5k on a commodities trading course (almost the exact amount of her neglected back property taxes!). Likely less,  but who knows how much,  to a Suzy Orman deal. "I can pick up the phone and have access to Suzy's lawyers!" Lot of good they did I was wisely stone faced when she told me that. 

I suppose the facility may take her SS. It would be a shame for it to pile up in the bank. I'll investigate,  though.  If they can't take it,  maybe I can use it to take care of her property.  I don't need it or money.  I have no debts except for my mortgage.  I'm thinking I may need to get involved legally though I don't want to.  As I may have said here or in another thread, I have no emotional ties to that property.  I only lived there for 7 months before I flew the coop on my 18th birthday. 

I signed the medical forms today,  including choosing DNR (Do Not Rescusitate). I think that's what she would want,  given her worst fear was to end up in skilled care,  and her wish to "die on the hill."

I read all of the stuff she was diagnosed with,  including "unspecified anxiety." It would likely be useless to tell them what she told me two years ago: PTSD and BPD. Or the Depression I've known about since 1989. If I get up there next week,  I'll assess the situation. 

I also saw something about "malignant growth" on her breast, the one that wasn't removed in the mastectomy 6 or 7 years ago. My RN mother was right and her MD was wrong.  She wanted both removed at the time. 

I put a call into my T today to see if he knew of any lawyer buddies in his circle,  to look at the other forms they are going to send me.  Maybe I'm being paranoid.  If I can understand mortgage documents, I should be able to read and understand these. 

Dear Turkish, o wow.  Thank you for reaching out to me at the same time such turmoil in your own life!   you are a few steps ahead of me in the mom situation.   my mother is in hospital having had an emergency heart surgery ... .and now she is in a rehab... .  and she made my sister the proxy and even though i have worked "in the field" for so many years, my sibs have totally turned their backs on anything i have to say, as i am only learning now how my mother told them stories behind my back that were not true, blaming everything on me, but how could they know otherwise?  we all trusted her.  anyway, ouch evey writing that truth is hard. 

makes me so sad you are in your situation.   bless you for sharing your story as it helps others (like me) so much

I wish I had a magic wand to heal all families... .another sibling dynamic, birdbird... .I'm sorry that they are cutting you off. 

The Adult Protective Services social worker called me today. She'd like to meet.  I didn't tell the nursing home about my mom's social security.  The SW said that my mom had a substantial amount of money in there.  $1400/mo x how many months... .? She said that I wouldn't want to become conservator, but rather to let the home access it directly to pay for her care. Makes sense.  The rest she can apply for MediCal  (California's medicaid). Medicare would pay for the actual medical care. 

She said that she did that with her grandma,  and they'd save about $60/mo to give to her to spend on outings,  clothes, etc. I said that I had no problem paying for those things.  The SW said it would be better if my mom paid for it.  I can see the reason on a number of levels. So they will be "stealing" my mom's money   not really, but she'll not know this... .

I asked why she was moved and the SW said that she declined quickly over two weeks.  They took her from the motel in an ambulance.  My mom's on isolation (not great) due to  communicable GI infection.  Should be clear by the time I visit next Tuesday. 

So the properties will stay in limbo.  They can't become her assets.  I could afford it but I'm not inclined to pay the back and current taxes on the 5 acres. What a waste. The only wise financial decision she made in 1989 was to do a 15 year mortgage, so it's been "hers" for a while,  despite almost losing it several times.  She loved that property, and I'll bury her ashes there where she told me to so many years ago when it comes time... .

Hi Turkish.  Be very careful with what you sign especially regarding medical care and insurance forms.  It is not unheard of for family to be stuck with medical bills for those in nursing facilities with medicaid and medicare).  It sounds like the social workers are wonderful so I don't think there is too much to worry about.  Just be cautious.

I think you are doing very well in making decisions and dealing with all of this.  How are you feeling? 

wow, so intense.  thank you dear turkish for sharing more of your story. 

Hi Harri,

I feel ok.  I looked into it today and it is correct that Medi-Cal might indeed force liquidation of assets including properties before they pay for care.  I think I am ok about not being on any book financially. I never heard back from my T about a referral. Or as my mom used to say,  "no yes, no, screw you?"

I'm trying not to take it personally, especially after all I paid him over the course of three years.  I stopped counting when I added it up in my head and reached $10k I'm almost embarrassed to admit that,  and I still didn't get a diagnosis like my ex wanted! 

Sorry for ignoring your post on my other thread.  I have a thread on Learning which ends kind of at the same point of discussion.  I've also ignored that for now.

I'm out next Tuesday through Thursday. I'll have a good update Thursday night. 

Hi Turkish.  No worries on not replying.  In case you haven't noticed I take many a break from posting on my own threads, sometimes with no real reason!  LOL

It is unfortunate and rude that your T did not get back to you.  He is probably too busy at his vacation dream home that you helped fund!  I wonder if the social workers could give you a few names of lawyers specializing in Elder Law that you could vet.  Worth asking maybe?

Is the property the same property that your BFAM wanted to purchase at one point?  I wonder if he would still want it including taking on the back taxes.  Just wondering... .

I will be looking forward to an update, not just about your mom but about you as well... .tho no pressure to respond right away.  This is a hard time and you are going through uncharted waters.  Be good to you.   

The 5 acres is the hoarder property she bought in 1989. The 2 acres is the one just through the woods from BFAM's dad's property. He'll keep paying the taxes which aren't much.  Likely go "adverse" possession of it at some point. 

Turkish, was your mother married to a veteran? In looking at caregiver assistance for my aging parents, we found that VS will provide about $1400 in reimbursement for carrying per month. Mom hasn't needed it - her finances are stable to stay in her house with minimal help right now - but we know it's available should her ability to live independently deteriorates.

Hi Wolfish


Based on what you've shared before about your T, he has done awesome work with you. Perhaps he just forgot about the referral, was very busy with work or was dealing with some serious stuff in his own personal life that got in the way of things. Or maybe he wasn't able to find anyone he deemed good enough for you and did not know how to tell you this. Your T too is only human. There are many possible reasons, maybe you can just ask him again if he has looked into it. What do you think wolf?

I am glad grandma wolf is safe

The Board Parrot

I'll try not to assume, Parrot. Still, it's a nice day here by the ocean.  He could be out on the sailboat I helped him pay for  :)

 My mom's neighbor (not the crazy one from a few years ago) just called and told me that the 5 acres was put up for tax auction.  I'm partly relieved and partly mad.  Her dead H willed it to her, then me, and my mom messed up stewardship of what she was given... .only like that because she was trying to avoid paying taxes in the first place!

I'm so sorry Turkish. It only adds insult to injury when your inheritance slips from your hands.

When my dad died in 2015, my stepmom didn't handle things right, and my dad also didn't set things up to protect his children. We lost the inheritance from our family farm that has been in our family since 1833. Yes, that is the right date. SM was 'grafted' into the family, was there for 30 years, then took it all except the money from a 20 acre parcel that my dad got from his grandfather. My siblings and I asked for that and her new husband agreed to share the money with us after all the probate fees were taken from our portion.

These things hurt, but I try to not hang on to them, even as I know you do to. It just stinks.

 
Wools

1833! That's a killer from an emotional and historical standpoint, nevermind the money.  

A Llama farm on that ground would have been almost sacred.  

I was texting my BFAM, whom I'm going to stay with next week.  He asked how much I had invested, including bailouts.

$5k in '99 (7,438.99 in 2018 dollars). I didn't have the cash but had it on company stock. I took a cash advance on credit cards to get it to her,  as she waited until less than 5 days the property was going up for auction to call me.  I was living in Oregon,  she in California.  My stock sale wouldn't have settled in time.  

$2k for roofing materials.  She did pay me back $1k. The material sits in the yard to this day rotting.

Various utilities being shut off bailouts,  more than $1k, probably less than  $2k. I didn't keep track.  

$700 to get the properties into probate, which I just found out this year wasn't necessary.  She only had to show her marriage certificate and the death certificate to get them transferred into her name.  I quit asking about the probate around 2010.

My '98 Toyota Tacoma (worth $5-6k in 2009),  which was in great shape.  She got into multiple accidents.  Blew the clutch the first year,  the engine the second.  Sent her $900 to help with the engine rebuild. Stolen by tweakers.

$900 or $1100 four years ago to help cover the impending confiscation of the properties by the county for letting the taxes lapse for about 7 years... .the county was pretty patient IMO! For want of like $1500/year for both properties. She hadn't a mortgage on the 5 acres since 2004. It was embarrassing two years ago when I drove her up to the tax office to pay the back tax instalment, costing me a days pay--- which I initially had no problem with,  because she didn't want to mail a check.  Pay online? What's that? She got validation from the ladies in the tax office cheering her on.  "I'm doing this all by myself with no help from anybody!" I standing right there.  "Well I did send you $900 over a year ago to help get you started." (JADEing (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0;all) forgot not to do that) "I don't remember that!" She replied as she wrote her check angrily.

In the 00s, $10k from my BFAM and his dad... .and if she'd gotten the 2 acres in her name, she would have had like $200/mo for the balance as they had agreed.  

$10k from her oldest friend who now lives in St. Croix. (I just found that out a little over a year ago.  

Many hundreds of dollars from her former neighbor.  Food banks. Up to $700 "credit" balances for gas and food from my other buddy who used to own the local convenience store.

Who knows what else I don't know about in the small county? My mom was good about positing herself as the poor fixed income widow.  In know Jesus said,  "the poor will always be with you, " but she wasn't poor.  Then again,  there is that "taking care of widows and orphans" part.

How much was enabling and how much was doing the right thing? I think it was here I saw a member once say their dad told them,  "do the right thing.  It'll be punished for it,  but do it anyway."

Maybe that's my answer.  If I weren't around,  she would have ended up where she is regardless,  but I did the right things nonetheless.  

And I didn't steal her purse; she left it when she ran away from our prison home.  I put it into my trunk today so I can return it next week,  whether or not she wants to see me.  

Who knows where she would have ended up. Perhaps the question is not only where would she have ended up if you hadn't done what you believe was the right thing to do, but where would you have ended up? How would you have felt if you had gone against what you believe to be the right thing to do?

I think the glory is not in the results, but in the fighting and trying to achieve the best results possible. All you can do is try and do your best and indeed what you believe is the right thing to do. You have done a lot of awesome things Turkish. I remember you taking your mother in, in spite of everything, because you believed it was the right thing to do. You helped her get through during that very cold winter, quite possibly saved her life there. She might not have been able to express her gratitude properly, but I and many other members here definitely saw the amazing thing you did there. It ultimately did not work out, but by doing what you believe is the right thing even in very difficult circumstances, you also set a very important example for others of what it looks like in practice to truly live your values.

I'm looking forward to hearing how your trip went.

Take care Wolfish

The Board Parrot

I feel like a horse's backside for my last post.  Oh well,  moving on... .

I stopped by the motel she was living in,  the SW told the property manager I'd be stopping by.  I grabbed some clothes,  her wallet (I didn't look inside though the SW said there was a few hundred dollars in it), a picture off the wall that had a Bible verse. I didn't bother with toiletries.  I stuffed the suitcase she was planning on using to return to Holland,  Michigan.  Yes, Parrot, she is Dutch  :)

She may have contacted some of my cousins there,  hard to say.  Maybe I should reach out on Facebook,  but more likely I'll let it alone.  The only point that sticks is that the other adopted kid in the family,  her sister's son, went off the deep end in his 30s. Got lost in the worst of what Thailand has to offer.  My aunt died in 1983. So long ago... .

The neighbors said to say hi to my mom.  It was a nice place,  right by a creek.  Plenty of shade. A stray cat my mom adopted. They encouraged me to take the cat.  My kids loved it. 

We drove an hour north to visit.  They caught me as I walked in and I signed a bunch of things.  I had previously read the 90+ pages. 

My mom was blown away to see me.  She started crying.  I had to put on a gown and gloves because she was still in isolation.  I had the kids sit down the hall with a tablet. 

She was glad to have her purse back.  I told hey I had packed her wallet (with ID and money). She was happy.  She seemed ok,  until she started talking about the son who threatened to kill her roommate and some other conspiracy theories. I shined it on.  I told her that I had the kids with me and that stem I left, she could see them from the door.  No touching due to quarantine.

I brought the kids by at the end.  She was so happy to see them.  Tears. The kids,  5 and 8, took it ok.  I told my mom we would be back in a month and after age was out of quarantine,  she could hug them and we'd spend more time. 

Earlier that day,  the SW reminded me of my mom's accusations.  Here I feel weird... .like people were trying to protect me.  I guess I have a problem with that.

I found my mom's January bank statement.  She has  $10k, despite paying $900/month in rent. 

We went by this morning to her apartment to see what else I could take.  My son wanted the bag of Cup'O Noodles,  so I took them.  In left the microwave, vacuum,  and a lot of other things.

I talked to another neighbor on the way out.  She said that they liked my mom and her sense of humor.  They tried helping her with the Holland trip.  They also knew that my mom was hyper independent to the end.  One time,  they offered to help.  My mom called the bus and returned with seven bags of who knows what.  So I left a bunch of stuff there.  She won't need it.  It looks like she had a decent pad though. 

My worst fear was that they'd have her chained against the wall,  or something like that,  but she seemed to like it there.  Despite her worst fearn of ending up in a skilled care facility like those she worked for the last 20 years of her career,  I was relieved to see that she liked it there.  This goes back to my mom's primal emotional needs: to be needed ("taking care" of her roommate whose son threatened to kill her),  and being taken care of.

When she was living with us,  I did the latter, but I didn't do a good job validating at times. 

Even so,  they've legally declared her unable to function on her own.  So where she is she is. 

Someone from Medi-cal called me on my way back today.  There are still things I need to do.  As for my mom,  I will try my best to take the kids up with me next month to visit. 

Another old lady stopped is in the hall,  focusing on D5. Not to brag, but she is a really pretty little girl,  with an outgoing personality to boot.  We all talked.  I think this is good for the kids.  My mom had me spend a lot of time in nursing homes as an early to mid teen. I really liked talking to older people. 

Hi Turkish.  I am glad things went well for all of you.  It sounds like she was having a lucid day!  I imagine there is some relief to have seen the place she was at prior and knowing she was in a good safe place.  Is that accurate?  I remember you wondering about it.

How did you feel seeing her in the facility?  I smiled when you said you were relieved she was not chained to the wall and my mind added to the horrible image with flashes of her getting food trays passed through a slot in the locked metal door.  A dark twisted mind here.
 
Once she is out of medical isolation she may do very well there.  There are lots of people she can help but also lots of people who can help her in return.  If the care facility has an dedicated activities coordinator she can have lots of fun as well.

  It sounds like she was making sure you remember so you have appropriate expectations.  I understand why it would feel uncomfortable for you to have others protect you like that.  Just sit with it.  Besides, why wouldn't she try to protect you?  Even strong independent stubborn (  ) guys like you need it sometimes.  Let someone show you care and consideration Turkish.  You are worthy and you matter too.

Why?  For expressing emotion?  For being real and not trying to wrap up your emotions and thoughts in a nice pretty and supposedly more 'acceptable' package?  Sharing your feelings is good and healthy!  Why do you hold yourself to a different standard than others?

Okay, I am going to end this with a appropriate earworm that I hope stays in your head for a while:  "This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine... ."   :)

Earworm, THANKS. Not... .. 

The lasagna and broccoli looked gross.  I remember that food well... .it was better then opening room temp canned food back in the day,  however,  especially the grease congealed canned tamales.  I'm going to buy meals for us next time.  My kids are spoiled.

My T called me back today.  He didn't have a referral.  I may go see him again after I finish the Medi-Cal stuff. $200/hr, ouch.

Hey Turkish,

First, a   for you-but that's only if you need it.  *)


I remember how hard it was when my dad was sick and dying at the hospital. I took an emergency flight to try and get to him before he died. I had to take a deep breath before I went in and remind myself (like Mario) before stepping through the doorway: "Here we go!" It was something I expected to be a revelation of my worst fears. Thankfully it didn't match up to those fears. It was hard nonetheless, but I didn't realize how much I needed to see him before he died until afterwards. I think you also needed to see where she had lived before and where her new place is, for your own peace even though it may not yet be a conscious thought in your mind. I'm glad you went.


Are you saying you had a difficult time with the sense of protection that they were offering towards you? If that's what you meant, I too would find it to be a foreign concept. As a child of a pwBPD, I find it extremely difficult to absorb or comprehend what it would mean to have that, even if it is what we have desired for so long. Ah the paradox of our lives.

 
Wools

Who knows, maybe we are distant relatives, perhaps you're part parrot? I've heard stories of flying wolves you know! :)


Ah well, you were just being real. Sometimes it's good to let these things out, like a way of self-validation, can also make it easier to move on.


That's a long time ago indeed. Were you close to your aunt? Did you see her often back then?


Just doing some selective quoting here :) I'm glad things went ok. How did it make you feel seeing your mother again after all this time?

Hi Parrot,

I've been out of commission due to influenza since Saturday.  D5 got it a day later. She was tested, so I conclude I have it too  (first time in 7 years this badly).  She had a relapse and in taking the 3rd day off this week to watch her tomorrow. 

I only met me aunt twice,  at 4 and 7. We lived halfway across the country in California.  I loved the Midwest lifestyle.  Family. Sunday "dinners" around 2PM. All of my cousins. 

My aunt suffered the same crimes from their dad as did my mom,  but my mom was the baby of the family,  left at home with him for two more years alone. My mom was so much more messed up.  My aunt was a social worker.  She married a college professor.  They carved out a nice middle class life in their home town. 

At 7, I was still 5 years away from my mom's move to the forest and living like it was 1883, but I remember loving the lifestyle and sense of family. To this day,  I still don't have a sense of family and wonder if I'm not messing up my kids.  I want them to be better than me. 

As for seeing my mom,  I was glad to.  I wish she were closer. I feel safe from false abuse accusations.  Sure those pissed me off but she didn't realize what she was doing.  That isn't to excuse her.  I went NC for almost two years to protect myself.  Now is a different story.  I don't think she knew then the implications and now she is lost in hey mind of whatever is going on in her head. 

It's funny that the SW warned me that my mom was so different.  I didn't see it like that when if I was aware of her oddness like the killer son of her roommate.  Maybe I'm so desensitized over the decades due to all of the drama and weirdness that I took it in stride.  All in all,  there's little that rattles me.  Even given the past drama and struggles with me ex,  my childhood inoculated me to deal with drama.

Even so,  I wish I knew what was normal.  Maybe there is no such thing.   

Yet when I read your posts I always see you as the rock of the family holding everyone together even when you yourself might not see it. Through all the struggles you still manage to find a way to have some contact with your mother and let your children at least know their grandmother so they'll have memories of her. You manage to co-parent with a BPD ex which is quite challenging, yet you truck on. Even when your ex got married, you still managed to co-parent in a constructive manner. Maybe you don't have a sense of family, but by being who you are I believe you actually have consistently created a sense of family for the people closest to you. (now how's that for some positive parrot spin to your words :) )


Yeah who knows what normal is, but what I do know is that you are the best wolf I've seen on these boards :) |iiii

The Medicare agent at the facility called me today.  Whatever therapy they had my mom on is ending on Saturday after which they won't pay for it.  The lady called to let me know.  I told her that my mom had a bank account,  with probably $13k in it now given her $1500/mo social security.  I said that another lady had said they'd help her apply for MediCal to make up the difference.  

She said that the lady that handled that would call me again.  I talked to her last week,  scanned my mom's January bank statement to email her, then I never heard back.  This lady said,  "the money will go quickly,  it's expensive." Yeah,  I know,  it's basically my net  salary per month. My gross of Medicare weren't paying partially,  which is ending.  I told her I had no legal access to my mom's money.  I can't help but be nervous that they're going to come after me.  

If only my mom hadn't gone paranoid and made the criminal accusations against me.  This would be so much easier to handle here rather than 110 miles away.  

Long term care insurance needs to be part of any financial plan.  Medicare,  our socialized medicine for seniors,  only pays for medical stuff,  not long term care. 

Hi Turkish:
Just sharing some info. that could be helpful.


The link below, to a page at medicate.gov, might be helpful for you to read.  Medicare Part A does pay for a certain number of days for a skilled nursing facility, during a given benefit period.  A new benefit period can start, under certain circumstances.

I haven't heard about a child being held financially responsible for a parent's medical costs or long-term care.  Only a spouse, with joint assets, would.

https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/skilled-nursing-facility-care.html

Thanks for the link No-One. The $167/day is what they told me her co-pay was with Medicare and her supplemental insurance.  I can probably get up there to see her with the kids in two weeks.  Despite her accusations which she likely doesn't remember,  I do feel badly for her.  If,  however,  being an RN, she thinks that she is helping to take care of other patients,  then maybe that delusion is good for her. 

Hi Turkish.  Do a search on Filial Responsibility Laws.  The laws are old and seldom enforced but better to be prepared.  California does have such laws so you might want to consult with an elder care lawyer, though again, it is very rare that these laws are enforced.  I would not ask the social worker or anyone at the nursing home about it... .why even give them the idea?

Easy for me to say try not to stress out... .but since it *is* easy I *am* going to say it.  Try not to stress about it.   

The Medicare, Medicaid and state laws are so confusing.

I found that my mother could retain a level of personal assets and still qualify for VS widow benefits for caregiving... .not sure if your mother has VA benefits?

On Medicare/Medicaid, I think the recipient has to reach a level of $2500 or so in assets, and they will go back five years to ensure that assets have not been transferred or hidden.I

Then any income (SSI, pension, etc.) Would be diverted to long-term care, with MediCare/Medicaid/state programs picking up the remaindet.

Ask about your state situation... .so confusing!

Filial responsibility,  ugh. She lived with us,  I didn't ask for a dime.  The extra utilities and food weren't a big deal.  I live below my means (which my ex never liked). It wouldn't be safe for her to come back here. 

My mom married a WW2 vet who had a severe stroke.  Being an RN, she did it in large part to take better care of him as a spousal advocate (I still kick myself for being a jerk and not driving 150 miles to Lake Tahoe for the wedding,  but what's past is past). He died in 2003. I ended up with his social security card for some reason.  This is a point I might enquire upon.

A lady from the nursing home emailed me today,  asking why I hadn't emailed my mom's bank statement after talking to me last week.  I told her that this was the first email I'd received,  then I emailed it.  She said that they tried to run my mom's debit card but it was declined.  I'm not sure what I could do at this point to help, though I asked if my mom was of sound enough mind if they could call the bank.  Then I left work early.  I could check my work email from home,  but I'm not going to.  My weekend with the kids. 

OK, then the VA benefits are a possibility. With the SSN, you should be able to get a DD-214 (discharge) form. I believe VA guidelines are a max of about 80I in assets, not counting house and car. And VS will then reimburse about $1400-1500 in care per month (even if not in a facility). I've been told that it takes four months for the reimbursements to start coming in.

It's worth an inquiry.

(I don't know if they go by cost of living... .it's much less in the Southeast than in California!)

When I wrote that last night I forgot about the properties in her dead husband's name.  The 5 acres was put up for auction by the county.  The 2 acres is still in limbo but not in her name.  Better not to go down that path.  The plan will remain for my buddy too continue to pay the property taxes and try to take adverse possession at some point. His will left both properties too her, then me.  Oh well. 

I don't know how they got my number but the ambulance company called me.  It was an 800 number so I let it go to voice mail.  She may have more than one ride unpaid for... .like most everything, she had the money but left bills unpaid.  I wonder how much they can come after me?

Yikes!  Okay, I think now is the time to consult with an elder care lawyer.  Just to get some questions answered.  In the meantime, I would not call back (  ) until after getting info.

Do I remember correctly that your mom is a ward of the state?  Who manages her finances now? 

Hang in.  Getting correct information is the first step.  Knowing is so much better than worrying.

Read this:

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/are-children-responsible-for-their-parents-debt-133807.htm

Good site.  I dug around more. I was going to ask on avvo, but this site seems better.  Scooby Snack for you!

So glad you find it helpful!

Thanks for the snack!

I have time so I can dig for more info if you want me to.  Let me know.

This latchkey kid is trying to process someone doing something nice for me  :)

At the very least,  I can enjoy the weekend now.  I'll call them back Monday. 

Let us know how you make out when you do call. 

You took a risk by being vulnerable so good on you!  Lil Turkey, adult Turkish, Turkey-Wolf hybrid, lots of people here care and are willing to step up and help all of you.

Here's to good weekends!

Turkish, here is some more info on filial laws.  Apparently they apply only in cases where the parent receives aid from the state but does NOT qualify for medicaid.  Has your mom's medi-cal application been processed?

Also, I had a thought about the ambulance company.  It is possible they are simply contacting you to get your mothers latest address.  I still would not contact them until I got more info though.

In the meantime here is a quote for a source that I have verified in several different documents on the internet.

Under filial responsibility laws adult children may be required, and held liable, to pay for a parent’s medical bills if certain circumstances exist which are broadly summarized as follows:

~ Parent is receiving financial support from state government
~Parent has accumulated a nursing home or medical bill in the state in which the filial responsibility law exists and cannot pay
~Parent is classified as “indigent” meaning that their expenses exceed social security benefits
~Parent does NOT qualify for Medicaid
~Caregiver has reason to believe that adult child can pay the bill and chooses to sue him/her

Under the various State’s statutes, if a court in one of these filial responsibility states orders that a judgment may be enforced against the adult child, any number of unfortunate legal remedies, such as liens, wage garnishments, and even potential jailtime can be imposed, depending upon your state’s filial responsibility laws.

Exceptions to Filial Support Laws
The good and bad news is that judges have “discretion” when enforcing these filial responsibility laws, and it comes down to a factual inquiry in a court of law. In filial support hearings, the adult child would need to demonstrate that he/she does NOT have adequate funds due to other responsibilities such as student loans, cost of living, medical bills, etc.

It may also be effective if the adult child can show abandonment or other reasons for lack of ongoing relationship with their elderly parents. But proving abandonment is a tall task and requires that the adult child prove various elements, including that the parent abandonment occurred while the adult child was a minor.

Finally, in a filial support hearing before the court, you might be able to offset some of your financial obligation by showing mitigating circumstances that would make it immoral for you to have to pay full support, such as demonstrating prior bad acts by your parents.

I told my ex some of this today. Should I liquidate by getting a new car? New windows in the house? I have a lot of cash and company stock.  She replied,  "you could transfer that money into my account." Thanks for the support 

I guess I was testing her,  but anticipating the response, no surprise. I did find it funny though. 

Dear Turkish, I am sorry that times are so rough for you. Hang in there ok ?



I haven't seen anyone else referring to this and I also don't know if you are willing to hear me on this one, but ...

I don't see the link between having been adopted, and having to take bs from someone because of that. I hope you are not forgetting to take care of yourself here ?

Thanks Fie, you are right.  I'm FOGing myself.  Even so,  I feel badly as she has no one else.  The "replacement" daughters and families all fell away.  I know she's my mother,  but maybe my T had a point when he observed,  related to someone else,  that I was loyal.  That can get you into trouble sans good boundaries,  however.

I'll post the link to myself  :)

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

Even if my mom wasn't a "controller" per se, I performed many rescues of the Waif. I was communicated about being replaced by other "children" many times who "gave" my mom grandchildren,  or the dynamic thereof.  It's beyond that now given her mental state. I need to work on me. 

Turkish:
Your 401K is safe.  From some comments I have read about your adoption, and your history with your mom, you don't have anything to worry about.  If you Google the topic of "filial responsibility", you won't find much case history for California (except for lawyers and insurance companies looking for clients).

I don't think you are the poster child for liberal California going after a child for parental support.  They would surely want to go after someone who is "rolling in the dough". 

The following information could be helpful:

And it can get you into the exact same circle that you had somehow escaped a little I believe ?  Your mum's circumstances have changed now, but she's still the same person. Are you sure you suddenly want to go and rescue her again ?

That's a lot of good info No-One. Thanks.  I hope it never comes to court because I do have savings (I max out my 401 (k), and put 10% of my net into company stock). Still haven't called the ambulance company back. 

Fie, yes,  she still is the same person, even if her mind is going.  She was nice to me when I visited a few weeks ago,  but it seemed like she wasn't quite grasping her situation.   Helping her financially is beyond me now,  short of creditors.  Sorry if I keep coming off as paranoid.  I've spent over two decades overcoming the poverty she had us living to make it beyond anything she could comprehend.

Her little brother, a retried IBM engineer (and a millionaire as my mother told me at the time), refused to loan her $10k in 1984 to save her 25 acres.  I mirrored my mom's feelings at the time.  Family abandoned her.  We ended up homeless.  Living in a cab over camper with county authorities chasing us.  Now,  I get it,  even if he was likely NPDish (other stories my mom told me,  not that).

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