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I guess that’s generalizing because not all of “them” are the same. I guess even calling everybody with a disorder “them” is offensive. I get it. But do you think they care if people who used to love and support them now hate them? Or does the fact that you hate them feel better to them than feeling nothing? Does it hurt them to be viciously hated or no?

everyone wants to be liked. for the most part, everyone wants to be seen in a positive light by our old flames. and no one likes rejection.

generally speaking, people with BPD are especially sensitive to rejection, more than average. everyone responds to rejection differently, so it depends on that persons makeup and coping style.

sometimes, when someone rejects us, it rolls right off our back. sometimes when someone rejects us, its a result of our own doing, we get it, and while it doesnt feel good, we live with it. sometimes maybe we go to lengths to get that person to like us, and approve of us. sometimes it really gets under our skin, and we cope by, more or less, painting that person black, and saying "its not me, its them".

nobody likes to be disliked. reactions vary by the person.

did you leave your ex with the impression that you hate them?

I once read a post by a pwBPD that said love and hate are two sides of the same coin and if they cant be loved they would rather be hated as it is better than people being indifferent to them. If they are indifferent then it feels as if they don't exist.

I said I hate you. I do. I hate you. It felt weird forming the word hate in my mouth. And then I said every minute you spend either not dead or suffering hurts me. I said I hope you die soon. And if not I hope you are always suffering. And that is how I feel. Because he moved to my neighborhood and I am having a horrible time sharing this space. It’s giving me mental problems to have to see him all the time living pain free as he puts his pain on others.

Makes sense

Hi Tiki

Its hard seeing them get on with their lives as if nothing has happened. There is a sense of injustice that digs away at us if we let it.

If they are truly BPD then they aren't living pain free it just seems that way. My uBPD exgf has opened up to me briefly on occasion about how shes not coping well and how tough things are for her. On the surface though it looks like shes having a blast.

Its hard especially if you see them all the time but you need to stop worrying about what their up to and live life for yourself. In the beginning I would worry what my actions would look like to them. Whether a post on fb would make me seem cool or not to them or if friends would meet their approval. Sounds silly now but back then I was still kind of hooked. After a while though when you finally admit theyre not a good fit for you you start to not care. Kind of reminds me of a pair of shoes that are bloody uncomfortable but you wear them as you think they make you look good. Looking back you think how ridiculous you were going through that pain as they weren't even that cool. And yes men also wear uncomfortable footwear in the name of fashion.

Act as if you DO NOT care! That hurts them! And yes: "them". "They". Every pwBPD is a different human being, all right. But holy s... t; they do show similar patterns! If you hate them they'll be in their element: deep inside they'll know you're still head over heels for them. Don't let them know you're gutted for them. Chin up, really do. And if you can't, here it goes again: act as if you don't care until you believe it!

I read that too, Borderlines have narcissistic tendencies and with that they have the craving for any type of supply, whether it is positive or negative, because if you show any kind of emotion towards them it means they affect you somehow and they feed off that, makes them feel important as they have no sense of self. It could be sad, happy, or angry, as long as you show something it gives them power. That is why it is recommended that you show you are indifferent. You feel nothing, neutral feelings, pretend they don't exist, act like you never met. It will affect them. My ex did everything she could to make me jealous after the break up, triangulation, flaunting on social media, tried to push my buttons any way she could. When that didn't work she had the new partner contact me to brag about their sex life, I did not show any reaction at all. We have been broken up since last September, have not spoken in two months and she still tries to do things to make me jealous. She used to keep all her Facebook posts private as well as her pics. This past month that all changed, any post that has her new partner and her going back and forth especially with sexual or a type of flaunting of the relationship is now public, even pics of them together are public now, it was especially noticeable on my birthday. So I tend to think that is just showing her desperation to try and get my attention or push my buttons as I have not reacted to any of her antics thus far and have been in no contact mode for two months. Heck I have a low functioning BPD ex who still tries to make me jealous and we broke up over two years ago. One thing I learned about them is they will always need attention, not just with the partner they have, anyone, that is why they tend to be unfaithful or will always have guys or girls lined up following a break up. My BPD exes had all their previous exes on their Facebook's, anyone they dated, just shows that they feed off of attention like an addict, and no matter how much love or attention they get it will never be enough. So as I said showing no reaction at all and acting indifferent does have an affect on them.

What I have gathered from watching and interacting with my BPD friend over the years is that she seems almost empowered if the other person "hates" her. She thrives on the emotion and tries to find ways to make subtle or direct digs at them. If the individual seems to have ended contact cleanly and shows no sense of anger she typically panics.

Right, exactly my point. It is all a power trip, my ex loved to push my buttons, she loved to throw guys in my face, post stuff on social media, just dig after dig, she got off on it, seemed like. And your right they range from subtle to direct. And again what I learned was to just ignore it, show no reaction, and move on, like I said, since then I noticed her making subtle or more direct moves to make me jealous or get my attention. She was like this with everyone, even friends and family, they have such a huge ego that is always hungry haha. So tell me, if you don't mind me asking, what type of behavior does she use to get at people so to speak? Her actions? Is it directed towards friends and lovers or people all around? And when you say panic? Would you mind elaborating? Also when you say they hate her, I think they enjoy that because if they feel someone hates them then to them that person is jealous or envious of them and that feeds their ego.

I'm not great at using multiple quotes in replies, so I'll just try and list out your questions.

1. Her usual  way of trying to punish people is pretty passive. Using social media is a big one. If she's mad at a particular person she will make a vague Facebook post voicing her frustration at *something* but won't directly mention what or who, that person will however likely pick up on it. Another way is by making direct posts on Facebook but excluding that individual, like say she's thanking everyone for their recent support, but will purposely leave that person out, even if they have been majorly involved. She sometimes adds people to her restricted list, which is pretty obvious when they suddenly can only see he public posts, or she'll delete all pictures of her and that person. Then occasionally she'll delete them if she's decided that she really wants to punish them (but typically it's because she believes that will make them reach out, not because she actually doesn't want contact).

2. This is primarily how she treats friends and family. Lovers are punished according to the length and strength of the relationship. The more she knows it can endure or believes it will, the harsher the treatment. In the past she's thrown out ultimatums of "you will come over tonight or we are over". She's gotten fall down drunk and purposely ruined her significant others birthday and embarrassed him at an after party with his favorite band. Etc and so on.

3. Panic - by panic I mean she really starts losing control. During one of her break ups she realized the guy was done. They had been together for about 3 years and he had tolerated all he could. They had broken up once during that time but it had been her ending contact, which had empowered her. This time he had told her calmly about five times that it was over, and this was over multiple days. He was a friend of mine, and I had introduced them (yes I paid dearly for that). She had been NC with me for over a year and reached out to me acting as if she wanted to reestablish contact. She did, but the motive was to have me contact him as he was no longer responding to her. Of course she didn't tell me he had broke it off multiple times. So I reached out to him and asked him if he would please contact her and let her know if he had broken up with her, because she was worried and confused. God love that boy... .he did. He contacted her and told her it was over. I have never apologized as much as I have after I met up with him months later and he showed me all the correspondence. She was harassing him, things she said didn't even make sense. He would tell her it was over and she would message the next day as if nothing happened. It was mind blowing. --- so by losing it? I mean she ended up inpatient three times, she wrecked her car, she came to my house falling down drunk, she lost her job. It was the most extreme I have ever seen her behavior.

That sounds like my ex, she would tell me to come over after work to talk or to demand to see me without any questions, if I didn't comply she would break up with me, I remember one time returning to her house three separate occasions in one night because every time I left she would make it sound like I was being selfish. Very exhausting. Every time we broke up she would delete me on her facebook and block me, block me on her phone. This last break up it was the worst I ever saw her, her ugly side came out in full force. She did everything she could to hurt me. I was close to her daughter, and she completely cut me off from her, I have not seen her since the break up, within a month she moved on and made a point to post a pic on Facebook of the new partner with the daughter to show I was replaced, she even put out facebook posts about me being a stalker, had the partner harass me on facebook, just went on and on seems like. She has also been cutting off several friends, her behavior seems to be more extreme then ever, even going as far as putting out very inappropriate conversations and posts about her relationships private details, very graphic, all on her Facebook. It seems she is taking it as far as she can go for whatever reason, I also know she has become a heavy drinker so that along with the BPD may influence her impulsive behavior. Would you consider your friend a high functioning BPD? As in she able to maintain employment? Property? ETC. My ex works for the town and owns a house, I dread hearing anything like that would happen because she has a daughter.

No. I wouldn't consider her high functioning.

The most independence and stability she had in her life was when we first graduated HS and she moved 1500 miles away for a guy she met on the internet. She spent about 4 years out there and had a few apartments, we were NC for the majority of that time. From what I've gathered from her stories they were on and off.

She moved home 12 years ago to take care of her mother who had cancer and unfortunately ended up passing away in 07. Besides moving out of state again to live with a different internet flame she has lived with her dad.

Employment is on and off. She worked in healthcare for a while and one job had an intervention and told her if she wouldn't willingly admit herself for inpatient evaluation the dr would have it forcibly done.

She ended up with a decent little inheritance from a relative and didn't work for a few years and would get black out drunk everyday.

So that's about it. Never married, no children, lives at home, very very low stress tolerance, problem drinker.

What I found interesting about my ex is she appeared in public to be very stable and proper, but behind the scenes she was very volatile and unstable, however her behavior post broke up seems to be less restricted in public, people have said the mask can come off not only in their private life, but also in their public life, depending on how much they are triggered. She seems to be acting more careless and reckless, and it shows on her social media as well as when she does out with the new partner. Without considering the consequences, which again I found shocking as she was more high functioning than others.

I think it's definitely possible to mask stability, especially if the narative you are receiving is coming from the person with BPD.

My friend has always had reasons behind her actions that at surface level sound plausible to those who know her very casually. And of course there are scores of people who only know her on that very superficial level, because they are the ones who will give her the attention and answers she's looking for.

Most of my friends life choices are usually blamed on the grief of her mother dying or a relationship gone wrong, people don't probe much if you excuse every poor decision with "well my mom died".

I understand what your saying, following the break up, she cut out some long time friends, and seems to surround herself with people who don't know her that well, enable her behavior, or give her the attention that she is seeking, as you said a superficial level. I do know that she had a pretty rough childhood and she blames a lot of her issues on her parents, her Father is an alcoholic and a womanizer, which I found amusing considering the guy she is with now is just like her Father. He a drunk, a womanizer, his past included several failed relationships, several marriages, financial instability, and he is several years older than her, so there is that implication of having daddy issues. She also has dated older men in the past when she goes on the rebound.

They already hare themselves so another on the bandwagon doesn't matter that much, they like it if you love them though.

My ex told me something about a past bf she was obsessed or still in love with, " his friends never liked me."

She knew from the beginning that my buddy's wife didn't like her ("I saw she was fake away" the wife  told me years later)

After she left,  she knew I couldn't stand her.  She would bring the kids to church and she was fine sitting in the lobby until I saw it as ridiculous and I said it was fine to sit together.  The odd thing is that sometimes I get the feeling that she WOE around me... .just this morning, in fact.

A core emotion of pwBPD is shame.  This lies beneath narcissistic defenses.  I stopped trying to rationalize it.  All I can say is that if you co-parent, or have unfinished business,  try not to trigger that shame.  Narcissistic defenses are one reaction; Waif-like rescuing flags might be another.  Neither is helpful or healthy for us. 

Of course they do it feeds their ego haha.

My ex-wife is narcissistic I think, and she would be like that, I just don't entertain it anymore, we get along now, it's been over 12 years since the divorce, she always played the victim, but I think besides a manipulation ploy, I do believe that aspect is tied to the shame as you said, they just can't face what the mistakes they make. And your right don't trigger it. I just tell her to knock it off, I don't care, the past is the past, I still care about you, lets co-parent our kids, and she acts surprised like I shouldn't care about her or try and be friendly, I am not vindictive, I don't get vengeful, her second marriage failed, 3 other relationships failed since our divorce, she ended up bankrupt, so what can I do to her, it's like she expects me to be hostile towards her, and I really don't care, I love my kids, and I won't allow a grudge to get in the way of that. Very complex emotions they have. But it's funny you mention that people didn't like your wife because my sister and one of my friends kept telling me that my most recent ex who has BPD, which brought me to this board was fake, and it turns out she was. Funny how people can pick up on things. What do you mean by WOE?

WOE. Walking on eggshells.

I see, so how long since your divorce? Does she seem to be willing to get along? How did she treat you during the end of the relationship and following the divorce?

For what its worth my ex would have gladly killed me during the break up and threatened to do so on several occasions,

Five years on she now relies on me for advice and support, which for the sake of the children, i am happy enough to give.

I understand that, after 12 years of giving me hell on earth, she asked for my help, granted she never formally apologized and still plays the victim, but she doesn't argue with me like she used too when I call her out on things, so as you said we do it for the kids, so for the past month her and I are trying to get along. She is more of a narcissist than Borderline though, but still never treated me as bad as my most recent ex with BPD. She topped the cruel and crazy scale with her behavior, makes my ex-wife look like a saint, in a way that helped me be less bitter towards my ex-wife and want to settle our differences.

Hi enlightened one. thanks for responding.

I think they hopscotch people in such a way that allows them to never have to fully process their pain. They push their pain on other people, rinse and repeat. Do they care about the pain they cause those people? Do they ever have to stick around to even see it?

I think they do have means of not dealing with their pain and not feeling their pain. So when they appear to be fine in some ways they are. Imagine not having to feel anything ever for the way you treat others.

And okay maybe there is inner shame. But that only causes them the need to suppress and act out more.

So ultimately I think they feel pretty remorseless and there is nothing you can do. You just accept they have no conscience for the way they treated you.

And of course they are going to have patterns where they feel pain. It will come to them. But at the same time I guess you really can’t hold your breath for it. You can’t watch for it. You can’t wait for it. It will come to them. But you can’t wait for it.

Well that was uplifting and inspirational. Thanks. I feel pumped to not care. I guess for me it’s that I’m in bad mental shape and I’m looking for things like... well I don’t even know. I’m just in bad shape and am having difficulty with coping and... I don’t even know. Its difficult seeing him living here as a callous person. I do think if he was out of sight this would be so much easier. I’m bothered by the fact that I was driven to such poor mental while they have all these myriad ways to not experience things.

It just feels so bad to be treated so poorly by someone who doesn’t care in the end. I feel like my soul was a wiping rag for their emotional problems. I feel so not valued as a human. When I read me saying things like that I think boy I need counseling.

They push their pain on people but then we get to be the clean up crew.

Hi Tiki

Yes they try and run away from their guilt but it eventually catches up with them. My exgf always had a man on the go (or more). Probably the longest she went between them was a couple of weeks. Now though she goes weeks even months between. In this time she has no choice but to reflect on her situation. Even when they are in a relationship (post honeymoon phase) they reflect.

The older they get the less they can rely on their looks and the more they come to realise that all their plans will come to nothing and they will either end up alone or with someone that they don't want to be with.

The people who they loved and yes they do love will have moved on with their lives and they will regret this loss more.

hi tiki,

i was reading your backstory earlier, and im unclear on some of the details.

from what i gather:

-you met online and became best friends
-sometime later you met in person
-sometime after that you had a falling out
-you are having difficulty not engaging

do i have that right? what happened between meeting this person and falling out? what went wrong?

He thought he was entitled to more.

Thank you so much. I recognize my own question now as immature feelings whose darkness will only hurt you. It is hard to accept there is a callousness but then again that means there is no point in trying to get them to apologize.

Some might care some might not, but I remember the day I actually said to her first "I hate you!"

She was menacingly pestering me everywhere I went in the house to get away from her derision. I kept shouting "Leave me alone! Please, leave me alone! Get out of my face!" As I was going downstairs with her trailing behind me telling me I am not a man and how could I let her son talk to her like that it just came out, "Leave me alone! I hate you!"

It didn't bother her. She'd make some sarcastic comments about it afterward like, "Oh, don't you remember you hate me? Oh, that's right... .I forgot you hate me." And it didn't take her more than a day or two to figure out a way for her to tell me she hated me, which I knew was coming. It was surprising it took that long.

I found the ultimate problem with my STBx was that words don't mean anything to her. They are just sounds mouths make when communicating. Hate, love, compassion, empathy, or what have you don't have any meaning when coming from me. All that matters to her is her feelings and thoughts about everyone and everything real or imagined.

What I say is only something for her to either talk over or do her mental gymnastics to beat me back over the head with. There's no ownership, no taking inventory, no mature debate. She just lashes out like a baby who isn't getting what it wants the second it wants it.

J

Tiki,
  It repeats, over and over, different persons, different timeline but it's a pattern.

It hurts to know you gave your heart and this person didn't care.

They did care, but in a irrational, damaged way you or I will never fully wrap our heads around (thank god). I don't think we are supposed to.

My ex called me the love of her life and dreamgirl in one breath and then a stalker, worst person she's known, in the next.

I was "blessed" to have met some of her exes. They were all cheated on... .with each other. All took her back many, many times. All of them, including me at the time, had no boundaries and poor self worth/value for ourselves.

I do believe we were a "need" until we weren't anymore. Usually when there is a replacement friend or lover they split us black and you won't hear from them. The only time they really think about you is when their new union is falling to hell and they need "soothing". This is very much like when a mom leaves the sight of their newborn and the newborn begins to cry... .object consistency. It doesn't really matter if the mom returns or someone else, as long as someone re-appears to "sooth" them.

I have more compassion now for my ex than I did years ago. I feel for her replacement who actually knew me and participated in the "cheating" on me. I know how this is going to go, I know this woman will be a broken mess eventually. They are engaged. We never got that far, I am so grateful we didn't, she would have sued me for all my hard earned money... .

She is a lawsuit happy gal!

I say this not out of bitterness. It's a realistic assessment. She uses people (who allow her to use them) and that works for her.

Why change a pattern when it's working?

I think in your situation you need to try to reframe your relationship and really look at it from the perspective that your ex was not functioning or thinking as you were in the relationship. It's easy to be angry but that only hurts us in the end. They are going about their lives, albeit sad ones that never end in real happiness.

  to you, Tiki.  Hang in there and keep posting!

PW

Hell yes to the feelings of others don’t matter. there was a time when my feelings were like little babies to him. It was almost more then I should have let a human being care for me. I should have realized it was too much. And then now my feelings don’t matter. It’s funy because he’s becoming friends and trying to date this girl and he told me I should be really kind if I see her because she is going through a hard time. He said it with like this voice of so much sympathy. And I thought interesting how that used to be my experience.

Another thing I thought was odd. He used to blame me for everything. And now I’m like this back to friendship person (he’s not obsessed with anymore) it’s almost as if he doesn’t care as much about all this stuff he said. He said i know I used to tell you I blamed you all the time but I never blamed you. I was like then what the hell why did you always tell me that. It’s so weird and then he proceeded to tell this story back to me they was so one sided. Like he wove blame into the story and distorted details and then he was like but I don’t blame you. Maybe I should but I don’t. It’s just the way I am. As if he’s above it. But he twisted a story to involve blame. While also admitting to verbally blaming me all the time While saying he actually never blamed me.

So yeah I guess the words aren’t what they seem to be. He still is distorting everything but he doesn’t seem to care to make these points anymore.

I’m actually kind of amused for some reason to see this shift that is occurring now. Because it’s so obvious. And also because I was so confused and it answers so many questions. I wonder if part of what was driving me so crazy was just not understanding.

But my point is that it almost seems like now that he has a new object it’s as if past words don’t matter as much. He actually said that he didn’t really believe any bad thing I ever said to me. It’s so weird because I’m stuck on those words because they drove me crazy. But I shouldn’t have been. They were just like what you said. Of course the narrative is still going to be changed and that’s ha. That’s just another thing.

Yes it’s so right on the same pattern I experienced. I was so confused while in but being shifted out it’s easier to see it. And it is just like many other peoples experience. They seem so fine now. And you see people are just this crutch. It’s just so funny how much the same it is. They use people so much.

It’s funny how much his taking me out of his life allows me so much more understanding.

Also thank you for the supportive words! This was a real low part of my life. I hit some low points.

Also I couldn’t understand why he even contacted me if he was kind of done.  I don’t know if maybe he was trying to kick something up or if it has anything to do with this girl. I guess he wanted to talk to me about his struggles in figuring out if she liked him. But everything else with him is so on the money but why would he say he wants to be friends still? Maybe he is able now because he doesn’t have feelings for me anymore? But I’m suspicious of his reasons. I don’t understand why he would want to be friends.

And this girl said she wasn’t ready yet for a relationship because she recently  experienced a hard ship but he is staying an adoring friend and hoping for more. So I don’t know if that has anything to do with why he is contacting me or wanting to stay friends. Because maybe he didn’t get more with her? I just don’t trust the reason. He truely doesn’t care like that anymore for me so why friends?

And I’m like this downgraded friend now. I’m not special person so it’s funny because it’s a very different experience. Do they actually really want to be friends with people. Just as friends? Are those healthier relationships?

I know this sounds crazy but I think hitting the low points helped me to see how strong I really am, and you are too! I had PTSD. That was terrifying, here I am this pretty healthy being and I am hyperventilating and anxious. I work with my ex's sister and all it took was seeing her across the cafeteria at our holiday lunch to trigger all my anxiety.

Up until a month ago I was still checking out my ex's page from a fake FB account (I am blocked). I am not doing that anymore because all of a sudden I don't care.

Well I care but I know I am so much healthier without her in my life.  The hardest part is getting past betrayal but I think once we get past that, it does get better. I had a few shady people in my life during the worst of my past relationship and all of them ALL I have eliminated or they did something toxic to sever our relationship.  I have amazing HONEST people in my life now. I think this is what personal growth means and it's not that bad!
 

No, I really don't think it matters... .how they feel about you is paramount. My pwBPDbf most likely hates me because I'm his target. While I'm still pretty uncomfortable with all the (unnecessary) drama, pain, etc., etc., etc.,  I feel a general disgust by it all. But I don't hate him... .he's a 5 y/o.

Chynna,
   That is a great observation. They really are emotionally stunted and we tend to forget that. We try to rationalize things as if we are on the same playing field... .we aren't.

It's sometimes hard to wrap your head around because it's like dating a 3-5yo in an adult body.

Hey PW... .yeah & being in the healthcare field, just wanted to "make things better". :0)

Thank you for the support. I feel so sensitive now for people who have been through this. Reading your story my eyes got tears because I know it feels and how you must have felt what I feel. It’s astonishing all that overlap. Ugh. Thanks for using your experience to help others.

Thanks, Tiki. It's a process and it doesn't happen overnight.
That actually is a blessing. I know for me, it helped me learn a lot about myself, what I was willing to tolerate and what I no longer will accept in my life.

Dating, surviving a BPD relationship is very eye-opening. You will learn a lot about yourself reading these boards, and know you are not alone. We have all been there and are going through this together. We will help you get through this rough patch. Don't give up... .we aren't giving up on you!