BPDFamily.com

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and actually a current "event" brought me here, since I was looking for advice on the web today.

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My "story" started roughly one year ago, when I met a woman with BPD (I didn't know about it at that point). Back then, I was a bit depressed and so I was very receptive for the initial love bombing and it got quite intense pretty quickly. Not too much later (maybe a month), some things started to get weird and I got to know about her official BPD diagnosis (though she refused therapy for it because she didn't believe it to be true) around the same time.

I then started reading about BPD on the web and all of it made sense. Probably I was quite lucky, since this allowed be to become more aware of my boundaries and not to be dragged into the whole situation even deeper than I already was. After I stopped tolerating her abusive behaviour (that became more and more frequently), it didn't take long for her to start devaluating me and projecting her issues on me, stating that she's fed up with my drama.

It was quite hurtful, but at that point I was already determined to say goodbye if she didn't decide to go for therapy so it was "ok" and I just let her go and didn't contact her again. On the downside, the whole trip (even though it was short, but had lots of chaotic and stressful moments, including me having to call emergency to prevent her from suicide) left some scars nevertheless and (at first) sent me deeper into depression for some time.

Meanwhile, 8 months later, I am doing fine (actually even better than before) and my life is going well. I was still thinking about that episode occasionally, but more in a relieved way in the sense that it is something that is now left in the past. That was until yesterday, when she sent me a message, asking me how I'm doing -- and since I didn't reply because I wanted to think about it first, another message today, asking whether I don't want write to her.

So what is it that I want? Partially, I'm pretty clear on that. I most definitely do not ever want to be in an intimate relationship with her again. Also, I'm actually not even interested in being friends. I want my peace and not having to deal with it.

However, I'm kind of a nice guy and I'm thinking stuff like "But doesn't she at least deserve a reply?", "Shouldn't you at least tell her this instead of ignoring her?", "Poor her, after all she's just some person with a lot of problems, so wouldn't it be right to ask her how she's doing and give her the doubt of maybe having changed or even started therapy?".

Then, on the other hand, I'm scared. If I allow that first foot into the doorstep, could it maybe already be enough to cause destruction again? Even if I'm doing good right now, will I be stable enough not to be dragged down if whatever situation arises? Actually, the simple fact that I'm thinking about it so much and struggling with it, makes me worried even more -- since it kind of shows me, that this "peace" I found before, is still quite fragile.

But is being scared reason enough to be an a**hole, ignoring someone who once was important, without even hearing that person out? It's one thing to end it, when someone is abusive -- but to send someone away, when she's (maybe honestly) looking for contact, isn't that another story? The thought makes me feel guilty.

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Thanks for reading.

Let me say that I'm not asking someone to tell me "do that" or "don't do that" -- I know that I have to take that decision myself. But what I don't know, is if I see things clearly, because obviously I cannot judge the situation as objectively, as a 3rd person is able to.

For that, any advice would be appreciated.

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Edit: I think I should just add that I do still feel sympathy for her, no hate or whatever (in case this was not obvious), I'm just concerned with protecting myself.

hi iat85 and *welcome*

often times when a relationship ends badly, one or both parties carry around a lot of guilt, shame, and may want to end things on a better note. rewrite the ending so to speak. sometimes nerves can still be more raw than we might think, and the conversation can get into a blame fight. when two people can walk away feeling okay about each other, it can be healing, and a form of closure.

i hear whats conflicting you, and i get it. youre not a jerk if you dont reply, or if you take a while to reply. i can also understand why you want to, and why youre nervous about it opening a door.

so my advice would be, that if you want to write her back, dont open a door. say nice words, close the door. a BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm) response works really well in these situations, i use it all the time.

any interest in sharing what she wrote, and/or what you want to write? we can help you work through it.

Hi iat85,

*welcome*

Id like to join once removed and welcome you to the family. I’m glad that you decided to join us. How long did you go out? There are many of us that you could categorize as caretakers. I’m a caretaker too  *Ja! Ii completely understand the guit that you’re feeling, i would do the same thing you’re thinking about her needs before your own. BPD is a serious mental illness, our love is not above th disorder nor can it cure the disorder. If you want to open that door I would suggest that you’re sure that you feel strong and have strong boundaries.

On the other hand NC isn’t about hurting the other person it’s about self protection, the same abusive behaviours are there and even though that she has a mental illness she is obligated to take care of herself.


PS The lessons are on the right side of the board  |--->

Thanks a lot to both of you. I already feel very welcome here. I'm also fascinated by the general style of interaction/communication between people here on the board -- it seems to differ so much from other online platforms (in a very positive way).

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Mutt:

The whole thing didn't last long at all. In total, from first contact to last interaction, maybe about 4 months. But it got intense pretty quickly and it was kind of a rollercoaster ride.

She was very charming and, at first, I thought she would only struggle with an anxiety disorder (which she was also diagnosed and told me about). I wanted to support her and I didn't mind, but there were already other warning signs that I somehow realized but still dismissed. She was forced to go to a clinic soon after we met (because of strong suicidal thoughts) and of course I continued to be there for her. During the inital part of her stay it got worse: she made very concrete plans for killing herself and I had to call the clinic staff to prevent it. This was the first time I thought "Sh*t, what did I get myself into ... .I probably should have known this would not end well.". Afterwards, however, she seemed to recover and I was her "savior" and her favorite person and of course, somehow, it felt great for me (probably that craving for feeling special and "saving" others is one of my main issues) -- at least for some weeks. She then soon started getting angry at me for all possible reasons and, once I got to know about her BPD and didn't "comply" to everything anymore, it didn't take long until she told me about another guy she had fallen in love with and she became cold and distant from one day to the next.

Probably it's exactly that "being a caretaker", which you are also mentioned, that makes all of this possible. But - just thinking loudly - this might be a reason why I should learn from it and make things different this time, simply not caring.

Thanks also for the hint with the lessons on the right side. I completely missed them indeed.

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once removed:

Actually, there is not a lot to share. It was really just two short WhatsApp messages, which I already paraphrased:

"Hi, how are you doing?"

and, with me not having replied, 15 hours later

"You don't want to reply? So that means you don't want to have contact?"

That's all. Now it's another day since the second message and I still didn't reply so far. I'm just still not sure what to do. There is nothing "bad" about her messages. The last part even seems to imply a "So you don't want to have contact? No problem, that's fine. Just tell me.". It just seems to be that harmless "getting in touch again" but that's exactly what scares me -- of course things would start harmless, otherwise it was easy to say "no".

I feel sympathy for her and there is that strong urge in me, telling her something close to the truth, like

"Hey. I'm really sorry, but I don't think it's a good idea if we have contact. I feel a lot of sympathy for you, but, even more, I have to care about myself and I'm pretty sure that it would not be good for me, if we started to have contact again." -- but there are so many issues with this version that frighten me. It might hurt her a lot and send her into a downward spiral, which I don't want to be the cause for. She might get angry and might want to take revenge for me hurting her, which I want even less. She might start discussion to try to take my mind, which would also be mentally draining and just prolong the whole thing.

Then there is that other urge in me, trying to give her advise like going for DBT. But then again, that's none of my business and would just again be similary to my old pattern of trying to help her improving her life -- so this also does not seem to be an option.

Ignoring her, without knowledge about my real thoughts, might imply "You're worthless and don't even deserve an answer nor to know why I don't reply.", in particular from the perspective of someone with BPD. It feels so wrong to do this to someone who is already suffering from issues of feeling worthless, basically confirming her destructive mindset.

I'm not exactly sure on how a BIFF would look like in that situation. Just something like "Hey, I'm fine. I hope you are too. Actually you're right -- I would prefer not to have contact."?

In addition to that, I realized that there is also this layer of "being afraid of her revenge" in all scenarios. Therefore, I would also like to minimize that risk while ensuring that things stay as civil as possible. Usually, for conflicts with people, my way of achieving this is by simply having empathic conversations -- but I'm very skeptic about whether this works with her (in the past it didn't).

I hope that you didn’t that I implied to not care. Caretaker qualities are good qualities to have nurses, doctors, police officers are careers that are good for caretakers. I choose to use my helper qualities as a volunteer here helping others. What do you think about volunteering? I don’t mean here but just in general? 

I'm in the same boat. I'm a nice guy who is guilty of being a caregiver based on my childhood. Those past events made me into the person I am today and wouldn't change it for the world. I relate with feeling sympathy for my ex. I don't ever want to be with my ex again and I'm super cautious with how I communicate with her especially through text as she tends to warp stories to make herself look like the victim. I didn't want to reply at first, after getting contacted since NC either. I did reply because I was curious on what she had to say. After reading the texts she wrote, it was clear that she still needs help. I did not mention all the hateful and life altering things she has done to me and just let her direct the course of the conversation. She was abusive to me and other things but I'm never a person to hate someone especially since I know this is an illness. Happy to hear that you got yourself better and you haven't lost the good guy traits. I feel its nothing wrong with being concerned for someone with BPD as long as you have boundaries and not be able to be sucked into the drama.

revenge is a valid concern. what, in your mind, are the possibilities?

her reply is kinda pushy. it stands to reason though, if shes anxious, and rejection sensitive, but its a sign to tread lightly.


those are the basics - the pieces are there. id pad it just a little, personalize it. no need to apologize for cutting the contact, either. be warm, but firm.

do you want to avoid any conversation, any playing catch up?

Hi there, what you've explained is very much like what happened to me, also a year ago.
We were not intimate, but everything else was more than typical, including panting me black and white again.

After no contact for 6+ months, she sent a few messages, wanting to see me.

We're back in touch again, but very little contact.

However, I've become a very strong person through a difficult life.
I want to point out to you, you might get into a cycle that is difficult to end if you get involved emotionally to her.

Thinks a lot about it, if you really want that. Yu need to be very strong. Otherwise she'll play with you.

Good luck and do the right thing.

PS: You're not doing anything wrong if you don't reply to her anymore!

Thanks again for your answers and all your nice words. Reading your replies really helps me to see things more clearly. It's 3 days now, I still didn't answer, I still have not made up my mind on what I will do, but I'm already much less confused/irritated and I can feel things in my mind are sorting themselves out.

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Mutt:


No, don't worry, I didn't imply anything like that from your message. I also didn't want to claim that taking care of people is a bad thing. In contrary. However, I do think that being too much of a caretaker CAN be an issue and I most likely think that in my case it is (in the sense of "helper syndrome"/co-dependency). Although I indeed often considered some "helping profession", I came to the conclusion that it's probably not good for me in the long term, exactly because of that. But that seems a bit off-topic. However, I definitely respect/admire people who are able to work in those careers.


Cire155:


I definitely can relate to your initial motivation. To be honest, I'm also a bit curious on what she would have to say -- but at the same time, I'm pretty sure that nothing changed and she still needs help, exactly as in your case.

May I ask why you continued writing after you realized that this was the case? Please don't get me wrong -- I don't want to judge you for it or anything like that. I'm just curious, because it sounds as if you already heard what she had to say (your initial motivation) and even got your answer ("she is still trouble". Is it the "Once she got one foot in, it's hard to get her out again?" that I'm also scared of? 


To be realistic, I don't think anymore that my boundaries are strong enough for not being sucked into the drama. I mean look at me: She wrote two short messages and I'm messing my head up for 3+ days. Does that seem like a guy with strong boundaries? Probably not. Making contact surely wouldn't make it easier.


MyBPD_friend:


May I ask why you agreed in having contact again?


I doubt that I'm already strong enough. And even if I was -- I suppose it would take a toll nevertheless, defending your boundaries again and again. Thanks for your words, they really helped me to see more clearly how risky, therefore, unwise it would be to open that door just a little bit. I fought for my healing/sanity very hard the last months, I don't want it all to be undone by a stupid mistake out of naivity and good faith.


once removed:


Actually, I'm not even sure if it's a valid concern in my/her case. During the time we had contact, she never showed any sign of being vengeful against anyone. She did talk bad about all her ex-partners (and many other people) but, as far as I know, she always ended things by just breaking contact, trying to get them out of her life, never by taking revenge.

I'm just worrying because I'm not sure how accurate my picture of her is (it was mainly based on the honeymoon period) and since, initially, I also couldn't imagine her to be cold/distant (until she became exactly that). Together with so many stories on the web about pwBPD taking revenge in very unexpected ways, this is kind of scary. Also her ex-partners usually kept chasing after her -- so someone who's really not interested in contact anymore might be a new experience for her and no idea what that might trigger.

Altogether, I think she will probably just move on. Something like 80% convinced. But still, the remaining 20% chance make it difficult to make the mind rest and to find peace. Therefore, I would at least like to minimize the risk by not giving her any (perceived) reason.


Yeah, you're actually right. I didn't realize this initially, but now that you mention it, not even waiting a full day before asking again indeed seems a bit pushy. She already acted like that in the past. I'm not sure if it is anxiousness/rejection sensivity or to put pressure on me -- but it definitely makes me feel uncomfortable because I DO feel pressured.

Even more than "uncomfortable", a proper term might be "alarmed". I just started to realize that my whole body/mind switched to "alarm" mode immediately after her first message and increased another level after the second one. It was almost like a trigger. Maybe kind of post-traumatic? I don't know.


I'm a bit curious, that I have to admit. Curious about whether she maybe realized that she should get help and started something like DBT. That's all. Apart from that, I would prefer to avoid any playing catch up. Though, my thoughts the last days tell me that simple curiosity probably is not worth the risk -- in particular, since it's very unlikely that anything changed. Isn't it usually the same story again for 99% of those contacts?

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Conclusion:

I'm starting to understand my reasons in a better way. As a motivation for replying, guilt is a factor, but a smaller one than I initially thought (or all your answers already helped reducing my feelings of guilt). Probably it's like 1/3, each of guilt, curiosity, and being afraid of revenge for ignoring. As a motivation for not replying, it's not wanting to let any drama in my life and (realistically) being afraid that my boundaries are not strong enough.

Fortunately, you also helped me realize that there is no need to reply immediately -- so I will still give myself some more time to figure it out.

it sounds like a guy with an emotional attachment who was triggered. i can be fairly prone to dwelling on things, and being affected strongly. those are things that cant really be helped. being a grounded person, to me, is more about how we handle it.



i think this is a good reason to give it more time. its not something you have to do (at all if you choose) on anyone elses timeline.


after these relationships, there can be a flood of adrenaline. i was, frankly, terrified, and id not yet heard of BPD. weigh the risks yes (it sounds like shes not a threat to your life, but a highly sensitive person can be extraordinary difficult when they feel rejected, they can be vindictive, etc), avoid making fear or pressure based decisions either way. when im hesitant, i give myself permission to "sleep on it" and im always grateful i did.


great! thats what we are here to do. thats grounded  |iiii

ps. when i want to understand my reasons in a better way, this is my favorite tool: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

I just continued because I think she was in a bad place. Our break up was bad. I mean very bad. I felt her reaching out to me was the last thing that would ever happen. I think it was more pity than anything why I texted back once I felt she had not gotten better. I haven't heard from her since then and I don't plan on talking to her anymore. The exchange we had was one sided and I let her direct the course of the conversation. She started mentioning goods times and I just let her. I didn't mention all the evil things because it doesn't matter at this point. I have seen the mask off. This person is sick and its sad. I don't ever want to be with this person again so me being sucked in is not an option. If you don't think you are ready to reply it's ok. At least you know and that is far better than to make a mistake that could cost you all of your progress.