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Forgiveness... .you think all it takes is "I apologize".  That's it.  "I apologize".  Regardless of the egregious nature of the violation of trust.  In a disordered mind I guess, "forgive and forget" is the best way to go.  Whoever thought up that "forgive and forget" thing was delusional.  Or was obviously NEVER subjected to BPD cruelty.  Well, in case you've forgotten, allow me to remind you of something I haven't forgotten, but I DID in fact forgive you for - Leaving me to drive cross-country by myself with my dog.  (I didn’t send this, but would love to…)

Step back…
Fall of 2016.  Picture this... .we had been in the rental vacation home for 4.5 months, 3,200 miles from home.  This was the second year we did this, and the location is in my home town, where ALL my friends are, where my work home office is, and where most of my art shows take place.  BPDbf was supposed to get a job for the summer, because I was NOT on vacation, and the prior summer he complained WAY too much (about everything).  He did NOT really try to get a job... .and with his skills, it would have been very easy.
 
I literally hired someone I knew to drive out with me.  BPDbf flew out a week after I arrived and met me.  I hired a young man I've known since birth to help unload the storage unit so the rental was decorated and all cleaned and set up when BPDbf arrived.  Summer comes and goes, blah blah blah, complains, he's bored, he cancels plans we've made, but I see my friends (I will NOT miss times with my friends).  But there are some good times.

We opt to extend our visit by a week, neither of us wants to return to Florida.  I come down with really bad pneumonia (oh boy!).  But we need to begin packing up for the storage unit and trip home.  BPDbf tells me to take a nap, so I do.  After literally a half hour, he wakes me up SCREAMING.  "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO PACK YOUR ART SUPPLIES?"  Stunned, I said, "HB, I already packed them and you just told me to rest".    He continues screaming at me, kicks the laundry room door and makes a hole in it.  I was so PO'd and told him I couldn't believe he just did that!  He blames the hole on the fact that the door was cheaply made.   At this point I become scared a bit (my ex-husband had physically abused me), so I sat on the couch and started the recorder on my phone.  I realized how close my head was when he kicked the door in.  Would he blame my broken bone on the fact that I'm small boned?

Then he screams if this continues, he's going to fly home on Wednesday!  And I yelled, "No, you're going NOW!"  I walked by the guest room, and to my utter surprise, his backpack and suitcase were packed and ready to go.

It was a set-up.  The whole argument.  The whole early departure.  He NEVER planned to drive those 3,200 miles with me.  But I didn't tell him I was onto his jig.  I told him to grab that stuff and whatever else he needed, that I was taking him to the airport bus.  And that's what I did.  Turns out during my half hour nap, he had stolen $400 cash from my art show money satchel.  I learned about the missing money that night, and confronted him a few weeks later.  He admitted the theft.

My GOD, were my friends pissed!  So when I was well enough, powered by prednisone, I had a wonderful, low stress and music-filled cross-country sojourn.  It was empowering!  The illness delayed my departure and it was a race to get home so I could vote in the presidential election.  On the day before the election, I actually drove 926 miles.  I was the envy of every truck driver in the universe!  Along the way, I had calls from every friend, family member and several calls from my vacation landlord.  But not ONE from BPD bf.  I arrived at 5PM on voting day (2 hours to spare) and cast my ballot.

And you ask... .did I forgive BPD bf for this greatest of transgressions?  Oh, heck yea, Wally!  And then he had to apologize to my mother.  Except the thing is... .right now, today, I actually DON'T forgive him.  Today, I find his action unforgivable.  Can you go back and “unforgive” something you’ve already forgiven?

You see... .and this is where I lose my footing... .my closest friend, my heart sister, passed away suddenly five weeks ago.  He KNEW how close we are/were.  But he would not, or could not let me grieve, yet I really asked nothing of him emotionally.  I rarely do.

Not even two days after she left (she was across the country from me) , he expressed (for the FIRST TIME in 4.5 years) that he was deeply depressed about his mother, living down here and the state of the world.  And I had to comfort HIM.  And two days after that, he began SCREAMING at me... .  how selfish I am, I only think of myself, blah blah blah.  And the next day... .more screaming... .BPDbf told me that everyone hates me (Gems) and no one wants to be around me.  Gems blames everyone for everything, etc.  I guess I'm supposed to connect that to one of the reasons my beloved friend died.  I don't know... .  she did NOT commit suicide.  Her kidneys and heart failed.

This second round of screaming was en-route to my getting a medical procedure, which was (ha ha) very calming and helpful.  At my follow-up, the doctor told me I woke up while under sedation screaming and crying, so they gave me more sedation.  What a surprise... .

In my state of grief, in my current state of depression, in what I hope will become a state of "I have to remember I feel like this", I am hoping I will finally reject what I have heretofore forgiven.  I think the time has come to put him in my rear view mirror.

BPDbf is likely waiting for me to forgive his latest transgression.  This has been our pattern for the last 4.5 years.  And I am afraid of the type of rage my failure to forgive will provoke.  I guess I’ll need to address his latest email next.  I did not respond and it’s been just over two weeks.  I have not seen him since 2/15.  I consider our “end” to be 2/16, because that is a bad date for me and I want to keep it that way.

If I end it, there are things I need from him…he owes me a significant amount of money.  And he took an expensive item from my home that I want returned.  The other things, changing the garage door opener, re-keying the P.O. Box, getting him off my AAA (he hasn't paid a cent of the cost) can be done and he can just get angry.

I’m sorry this is so long…it’s why I struggle to post myself.  I know I should be able to figure this out for  myself.  It's just that I'm by myself here... .and no one I know "gets" this stuff.  You do.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Hi Gems,

First, and maybe most important... .I'm so very sorry for the loss of your friend.  I can't imagine how hard it has been for you to go through that while mixed up with everything else going on with your pwBPD.


I'm on board with you here as far as not really believing in the "and forget" part.  Forgiveness is important, and it definitely takes more than just an "I apologize."  In fact, at the recommendation of our couples T, my uBPDw and I have been reading a book titled "The Five Languages of Apology."  Now, whether or not that assignment contributes to our marriage staying together (doubtful), it has some really good points about what it takes for us to really feel like an apology is genuine, as well as how we can be aware of whether our own apologies are received as being genuine.  I don't think it's in print any longer, but used copies are available for a reasonable price if you're interested.


So, here's the thing.  Try not to tie forgiveness to the question of whether you stay together with your BPDbf.  Forgiveness is important, but it's not for him.  Forgiving his actions, forgiving his treatment of you... .that's for you.  Forgiving him doesn't mean you're giving him permission to do it again... .it means you're deciding not to carry the pain he has caused with you for the rest of your life.

Whether or not you stay in the relationship is a different matter altogether, and only you can decide whether you think you can be happy by doing so.  Yes, part of that happiness would probably involve finding a way to forgive him, but you would still need to do that if you left the r/s in order to be truly free of him.

I'm not suggesting that forgiveness would or should come anytime soon.  And I'm not suggesting that it would be easy.  But it's something I'm learning is necessary in order to be whole and happy in ourselves.


I don't think anyone here would criticize a long post (especially not me)!  Sometimes this is our only method to fully articulate what we're thinking and feeling, and bring others up to speed on what we have been going through.  No one  can realistically expect that to fit into a couple paragraphs

mw

Dear Gemsforeyes

I know that I've already said this in the "Waiting for Godot" post, but I am so sorry about your best friend passing away. It's so sad to lose somebody we love... .and even more heart breaking to not be given time or support to grieve 

It's just too hard and lonely and disappointing sometimes. We put so much energy into understanding our partners, and are so mindful of their feelings, it hurts that our kindness isn't reciprocated.

Like you, I don't really 'forgive and forget'. I have forgiven my husband many things. Or rather, I've been understanding, and I've made excuses for and justified his disordered behaviour. Which I suppose helps me to mostly forgive.

But not forget. I think forgetting would be dangerous. Not forgetting reminds me of what he is capable of and I think - probably for everyone in one of these difficult relationships - keeps us from fully letting our guard down.

I don't know what to advise you regarding the money he owes, etc. I only think for now, you should take as much time as you need. And his email can be damned... .answer when you are ready. Maybe he can start connecting the dots.

You've suffered a big loss, you've had surgery, you're disappointed and feeling let down. Focus on taking care of you for now... .

Gems,
I am so sorry for the loss of your dear friend.     (I meant to put hugs there, not thumbs up--sorry. Typing too fast and not proofreading)

PwBPD often are so self-focused, they think our pain and grief prevents us from serving their needs and therefore it's a threat to them.     My ex-husband was like that. When I was several hundred miles away making funeral arrangements for my father, who had died the day before, he called my mother's house and told me that if I didn't immediately return home, he was going to kill himself. (At that point, I asked if he'd rather be buried or cremated. It was a good opportunity for me to emotionally disentangle myself, realizing that I could no longer live with someone so callous and self-absorbed.)

I think forgiveness at first hinges upon others taking responsibility for their actions. Otherwise, it's obvious that they haven't learned from the experience and will repeat it over and over. (My ex repeatedly cheated upon me. Each time when he knew I knew, he apologized profusely, but then he did it again--dozens of times.)

Time and distance certainly help with one's own forgiveness. I feel forgiveness toward him because I don't want to harbor the anger and hurt I once felt. And with many years passing since his transgressions, I now have an overview of that relationship and I think: "Wow, what an untrustworthy and disreputable person he was." Also, I think about how damaged my self-esteem became in the years I stayed with him--that I would tolerate such terrible behavior.

Now I've learned a lot and have much better boundaries. Thankfully he lives on the opposite coast. If he ever were to show up uninvited upon my property, as he did once after our divorce, I would tell him to "Get the F* off my property" and call the sheriff.

Continued... .sorry, I got a little carried away in my story.

It's one thing to forgive, but forgetting seems like a really dumb idea, especially with pwBPD. I kept trying to "forget" with my ex, not always successfully, but then he'd do the same damn thing over and over again.

It seems like remembering is a part of learning so why would we strive to forget some lesson we've learned?

Anyway, I'm so sorry that he hasn't the capability or desire to support you when you really need it. And you're realizing how telling that is. I wish you the best as you take the necessary steps to make the decisions you will be making in coming days. I know it's not easy.  

Cat

How do you forgive someone who is doing something they can't help?  If it's actually a disorder, then they don't mean to hurt you, to paint you black, to rage at you ... .they just do.   Do you forgive your alzheimer parent for not remembering who you are?  Do you forgive the autistic child for loud outbursts in the library?  Do you forgive your son with ADHD for not paying attention in class?

 But forget?  Never forget. 

Your statement assumes they have no control over their behavior. Since BPD is a spectrum disorder, therefore more highly functional pwBPD have better self control, otherwise they couldn't hold down a job, which many of them do quite successfully.

When we develop boundaries, we are therefore less susceptible to negative BPD behavior, which demonstrates that they do indeed have some ability to control their behavior as well as their emotions.

This is my dilemna Cat, where I am stuck.  My last bit to resolve.

She vascilated between control and absolute no control.  Those rages were so big, so scary -- it was like out of her control.  I really don't think she could help herself when she got that way.  It's not like an addict, where you can say they can control their usage.  The biochemical/psychological/disorder switch flipped and vavoom -- here comes the hurt.

Well, I've experienced those rages too and I agree with you, once they get dysregulated, it's easy for them to totally lose control.

The key is for us to use the tools and they're less likely to get out of control. And when they do get dysregulated, if we remove ourselves as an audience, they're less likely to continue. I know this is all easier said than done.

So we have to forgive ourselves for dysregulating them then I guess.  Its always our fault after all.  That's what she always told me anyway.  I should not have talked to that barmaid with her or left her that hour to go for a jog or stayed at work a half hour late or drank vodka out of a paper cup.

I don't know -- difficult topic.

Hi Gems!  Sorry for your loss.  i hope you're well.

Of course she will shift blame onto you. It's totally exasperating. PwBPD struggle with so much internal shame that they can't bear another ounce of it and will readily deflect it upon the nearest loved one.

The hardest thing for me to come to terms with was my anger and sense of unfairness about this disorder. It took a long damn time for me to get over that.

Then, once I did, and realized that there was much to like about being in my current relationship, I was determined to become an Aikido master of BPD. And in doing so, it doesn't impact me the way it once did. Mostly I live in a very peaceful state with my husband. (This would not have been possible with my exBPD husband as he had BPD on steroids).

The downside of learning to do this is that my level of emotional intimacy with him is greatly reduced. It's unfortunate, but I cannot get the emotional support from him that I have with my friends, but life consists of compromises. Otherwise my life is great, most of the time.

The only thing you need to forgive yourself for, Seenowayout, is that you hooked up with a partner with BPD. And like most here, you probably had no idea at the beginning. This person was probably the most charming, interesting, fun, exciting person you could have imagined. And then, you saw the other side.

Thank you Cat.  I admire you for sure, and i am slightly envious of you.  I just couldn't do it.  Forgive?  Forgive myself.  Thanks again.

Well, I don't know about feeling envy. I live with a pwBPD!   *)

At this point, you are free, or at least your pwBPD is an ex. Some relationships are not worth saving. Sure they had good points, often great sex, but the cost of maintaining them was far too high.

What I did after my first disastrous marriage to a pwBPD ended was to do therapy. And certainly it helped me not to repeat lots of the mistakes I made in the first marriage. That said, I found all sorts of new mistakes to make. And I married another pwBPD. (Family history weighs deeply in that decision--growing up with a BPD mom sort of defined what love and tolerance meant to me on a very deep level.)

So I would encourage you to do therapy, if you're not already. There can be lots of emotional wounds to treat after a BPD relationship.

 

Cat

 
Same mom, same wounds.  My first marriage was disastrously perfect -- as polar opposite from BPD as you can get, probably in reaction to mom. Wife is buttoned down, queen of spreadsheets, zero drama, zero sex, zero excitement.  I know that sounds harsh.  She has a heart of gold.  Great mom.  22 years.  And then the scent of something crazy and familiar, something unresolved from my deep past came into my world -- and I was hooked.  And ultimately filleted.  I am in therapy now, and it is helping. 

To end on a happy note, I think I finally found a happy Aristotelian mean at the end of this journey.  Hopefully a happily ever after person.  We all have different journeys.  But it's so cool how we all really recognize each other!  Unless you've taken this path, it's hard for anyone else to get us.

I find it hard to forgive on the basis that the person does not acknowledge they have done anything wrong. It then falls into the murky water of debating morals on a relative basis, often with someone who has little grasp of reality anyway and has selective memories and lives in pathological lies to themselves all day.

For instance, my ex thought nothing of it to cheat on me then return to me. she knew it was hurtful, she enjoyed the sadistic nature of it and she did it at the moment consciously aware of what she was doing. There is no excuse for those with PDs, they havent been overcome by some zombification that leads them to do stuff, it is conscious choices. impulsivity is what it is, but impulsiveness does not equal action. we can all be impulsive, im bad for sometimes buying stuff I dont need because it feels good at the time. but I still made the choice to do it.

 but her own moral compass sees cheating as not a big deal. So when I did it in revenge, she didnt like it in the sense that I showed someone else attention, and it caused her to ramp up her efforts to keep me interested in her, but it wasnt something that hurt her to the degree it did to me.

so how can you forgive someone when they themselves think that you are over-reacting about something that they regard as trivial. she knew it was wrong but at those moments you have painted completely black, then what is to stop them doing anything at you with the justification that they have got it firmly entrenched in their heads that you deserve it?

What ive encountered with people of varying PDs is a common theme. things dont bother them at all unless it has affected them. thats when they go beyond in the emotions swing from polar extreme reactions of self pity to complete enrangement as having being wronged.

in short, they can dish it out but cant take it. i know it is generalising and thankfully i havent came across many PDs, but this is what ive seen for those I have. my BPD ex was not the worse, i believe she was just a very hurt person who learned in life that if you feel hurt you should hurt others.

the classic case of the bullied becoming the bully. but it was only when she painted me black, dysregulated and felt persecuted.

Narcissists and sociopaths do it for the sheer enjoyment of it.

so I cant even forgive her in the sense that her own mind thinks she was justified in what she did

Totally agree... .and so sorry, Gems, for the loss of your friend. Forgiveness is hard, but it is not contingent upon whether the other person is remorseful or apologizes, and it does not mean the relationship has to continue even if we forgive. It is merely not allowing the past to keep harming us. It is living free of toxic resentment, anger and bitterness. It is also a process. We may struggle with it until we get to the point where we can say we have truly "let it go." The "forgetting" part simply means we do not bring it up or throw it in the other person's face. Of course, we remember, but we do not dwell on it or allow it to control our feelings.

Forgiveness does not mean the other person escapes the consequences of the behavior, nor does it mean we place ourselves in the position to be hurt again in the same manner. Forgiveness is refusing to allow another person's hurtful actions to take up space in my mind.

It's not easy. It can be quite difficult, but when you get through the initial struggle of it the freedom it brings is uplifting.

We are all here for you Gems. I am sorry you had to experience such selfish behavior at a time when you needed support and kindness.

And don't be hard on yourself. Sometimes in the midst of a situation we can't see clearly to "figure this stuff out" for ourselves. That's why I love this community. Keep your head up and let us know how you are doing when you are able.

My heart and prayers go out to you,

Redeemed

I want to thank all of you for replying to my post.  I've been stuck in some dark days, trying to claw my way out.  Not easy.  I'm full of self-loathing, struggling to work, and it has helped that I have a difficult work project.  The giver of that project was being so unresponsive that I decided to withdraw from it.  I submitted my resignation and couldn't even do THAT right.  I let them apologize and talk me right back into STAYING.  Pushover.

This next part is true, too.  Three days before I wrote my post, my dog broke my nose.  And I was so unaware of my surroundings, including my own FACE, that aside from the pain, I had no idea of the colors that I was wearing on my nose until about 6 days later.  That's how isolated I'd been.  Finally went to the doctor and he confirmed my suspicions.  It's all good.

So forgiveness... .you know, according to my spiritual beliefs, you ask someone for forgiveness three times, and if they refuse to forgive after you ask three times, then GOD will forgive you for those sins against the other person.  But generally, you must ask forgiveness from the person directly.

As this time with silence from BPDbf has stretched on, I am just trying to feel better.  I don't want to feel suicidal.  I thought the other day about who would offer a good home to my dog.  She has looked as sad as me lately.  That thought scared me.  I was ready to die.  Then I took her for a walk and we had a fun day.  I don't want to feel like this.  And forgiving BPDbf is meaningless. 

I thought about my state of mind when we met.  I was happy and ready to meet a happy man.  I was over the trauma from the end of my marriage, the violence I had experienced and the 19 years of twisting myself inside out to keep that husband happy.  I was happy and excited at the thought of a new man.  I HAD waited a decent amount of time.

And I knew this because I looked at myself now.  I compared how I see myself now... .I do NOT want to open myself to any man in any way.  Had I felt like this almost 5 years ago, I would NEVER have ventured out there.  Never.

BPDbf is slipping into BPD exBf, which he will silently learn over time.  I will not make contact.  If he believes he cannot live without the things he left here, then he will need to ask for those things.  I will not offer them up.  I do not want to see his face or hear his voice.  His birthday is next week.  I will probably sent an email to wish him a happy birthday.  That's more innocuous than a text with him.  sending a birthday wish will eliminate that as a reason to scream at me if and when he comes to get his things.

I will not tell him that we are done.  It's not possible to engage in a civilized discussion without escalation and I am simply not strong enough to endure any more tear down.  I am lost and hanging on by a thread.  I miss my best friend.  She was my rock.  I still cry daily.

He sent me a check for "most" of the money he owes me, shorted it by $300, but wrote a note saying that would come next month.  I sent an email simply thanking him for the check.  To keep it human.  He still has the $3,000 bracelet he took.  I will have to live without it.  The guy is coming tomorrow to change out the garage door opener.  I have a three-day art show next weekend, and he knows it.  I do NOT want him entering my property.

So here I go.  My forgiveness, and I do mean it.  I'll direct it to him, because I need to write it somewhere, so why not here?  I'll only list the things at the forefront of my mind and keep it short.  Thank you for your help.

HB.  You'll never know what you've done.  And I don't know why.  But here are a few things I forgive you for doing.

Lying to me about the number of homes you owned.
Yelling at me when I asked if I could see where you lived after we had been dating for four months.  It was because you did NOT own that one house, your mom did.

Lying about the number of times you've been married.
Lying about seeing your kids on that trip
Lying about why you have no relationship with your kids
Lying about the number of kids you have.
Hiding the fact that you ruined my dress and hid it in the garage
Stealing my show money
Stealing the $250 gift card my employer sent me for Xmas
Stealing the $100 gift card your mom gave me for Xmas
Stealing the $400 from my art show bag
Stealing the $3,000 bracelet and rummaging through my drawers to find it.
Looking through all of my personal papers when I wasn't home.
Taking my fleece shirts without asking because you liked the color.
Screaming at me and making me pay your tenants $500 cable bill because you asked me to arrange the cable for him.
Screaming bigoted slurs in my face, that actually were directed AT me.

Taking a piece of my art as a gift for your realtor and telling me after.
ALWAYS asking me to make expensive gifts for your family, saying you'd pay and then making a huge fuss over having to pay ANYTHING for my time or materials.

Expecting to live here for free.  What man does that?

Taking my credit card to gas up MY car.  And then using MY car for all your errands.
Screaming and cursing me repeatedly.  Helping me feel worthless.

Trying to create a wedge between my brother and sister and me.

Being critical of my niece.
Being critical of my step kids.
Trying to separate me from every one of my friends.  Nice try... .
Making me tiptoe around my own home.
"Taking" me on a cruise and then having me pay for everything.
Coming out of town for Thanksgiving and having me pay for everything.
Constantly giving me instructions on gifts to get you for Xmas and your birthday.  And yes, I am SO GOOD at following instructions.  So you're welcome.

Using my contacts for free legal work to get that stupid expensive boat that you've never used.

Leaving me in California to drive back on my own.

Being so hateful and resentful if I ever DID need your help.  And making it so apparent.

Screaming, drop whatever I'm working on "emergencies" so I have to run out of here and rescue you!  Good GOD.  And then continue yelling at me when I get there, like I made your battery die, gave you a flat tire, hurt your alternator, blah blah blah.

I forgive you for making me constantly have to tell you how effing gorgeous you are, how amazingly "manly" you are, confirm that no no no most men your age do NOT still have hair like YOURS!

Screaming that everyone hates me and no one wants to be around me.

I forgive you for coldly NOT allowing me to cry for my beloved S In the days following her passing.  You can't help your hollow heart.  I forgive your hollow heart.

I forgive your non-stop droning blaming your 90-year old step dad for not being capable of caring for your mom.

I forgive your not being able to retain a thought in your head that makes any sense or allows you to make good choices.

I forgive the fact that you chose me as your target because I was the picture of what you needed. 

I forgive the fact that your words of promise are empty lies.  They hit the floor and nothing happens. 

I forgive you for being a life-sucking force that made me want to disappear from my own life.  I forgive you for insulting and embarrassing me in front of people who work for me.  For making me cower in fear of your rages.  I forgive you for stealing my voice.

I forgive you for making me remember how it felt to be molested as a 6-year old, brutally raped as a teenager, thrown across the room by my husband, and keenly aware of the fact that I have complex PTSD.

I FORGIVE YOU for allowing me to fall in love with an unloveable man.  I forgive you for teaching me to forgive the unforgivable.

I forgive you for your hate. 

And after all is said and done, despite the tone of this, I actually don't hate you.  I pity you.  And I don't want you near me.  Ever again.

I forgive myself for loving you for far too long.  I forgive myself for waiting for your words to jump to life.  I forgive myself for believing that somewhere in there was a truly kind man.  I believed in you simply because I wanted to.  You never gave me a reason to believe in you.  That was my doing.

Gemsforeyes

There are likely no responses to what I'm doing here.  I have no rhyme or reason to what I'm doing anywhere anymore.  I've got all of this pent up stuff inside that I have to put down and get out, and then maybe sleep will come without waking up with drenched nightmares.

Here are some more and then I'll stop... .

I forgive you for drinking the two cases of wine I specially ordered for my sister's family.
I forgive you for constantly interrupting me whenever I was telling you a story so you could shut me up to tell me some completely UNRELATED story about a random celebrity.

I forgive you for not having a friend in the world.
I forgive you for being too reliant on me.
I forgive you for calling me a drug addict for taking medication when my arm was paralyzed.
I forgive you for screaming bloody murder at me for missing an exit on the freeway out of state when I was driving and YOU were navigating.

I forgive you for getting angry at me when you showed me a pornographic video of you and your ex-gf and I became upset at seeing that.

I forgive you for going through ALL of my photographs when you stayed here with my dog when I went to see the new baby.

I forgive you for constantly telling me I am NOTHING to my step kids.

I forgive you for your inability to let go of the fact that I was with my ex-husband for nearly 19 years.

I forgive you for screaming at me when you complained that we "never did anything" when I couldn't get you to leave the television.

I forgive you for exiling me from my own bedroom, and for my becoming a liar and saying I preferred the sofa because the bed hurt my back.

I forgive you for not coming downstairs to help me carry up my stuff, my dog and her stuff after the hurricane, when your house had power and mine didn't.

I forgive you for being so nasty when I returned from 10 days cleaning my 91-year old aunt's apartment out of state.  I stood at the sink and said "I could really use a little support right now".  You yelled, "what's so hard about what YOU just did?"  I forgive you for being a total D^*khead.

I forgive you for using my brain and intelligence and NEVER giving me credit for either.  Or the time I took from my work to solve the problems you created for yourself.

I forgive you for screaming at me if I didn't have your password to some account of yours.

I forgive you for asking me to help with your resume and then yelling at me when you didn't get a certain summer assignment because the resume showed you had "too much" experience.

I forgive you for never appreciating the fact that I needed love too.

I forgive you for planning my "make-up" birthday trip, and then becoming angry in the car at the length of the drive.  I forgive you for NOT obtaining directions to the place, yet keeping the location a "secret" from me and screaming at me for not knowing where we were going.  And THEN... .planting yourself firmly in front of the tv in the cottage.

I forgive the fact that you said "I want to become a better lover to you, Gems".  Those words felt so spontaneous and heartfelt.  But like everything else that ever tumbled out of that mouth of yours, the words scattered.

So I forgive you for being the most entitled, self-absorbed lover I have ever known.

I forgive your trauma, although I'm not certain what's true and what's not.

And here's the irony of all of this... .you have never, will never and don't think you need my forgiveness.

Bad me.  My mistake, always.

We have been separated for longer than this, but it's different for me this time.  I am so deeply angry at all that has been brought to my surface this time.  Never, in the 4.5+ years we were together, did I bring up his transgressions and rub them in his face.  When I quickly accepted his apologies, that was that.

But with what he did right after my beloved friend suddenly passed away, I feel he has desecrated her memory.  And I do not forgive him for that.  And I don't have to forgive him.  Not for me, and certainly not for him.

There is no healthy closure with a sick mind.  I accept that outcome.  I was missing him daily.  I believe I've transitioned into an angry phase.  And hopefully soon the day will come when I don't think of him daily.  And my real day will come when I take a hammer to a glass enclosed piece I made that embodied the beginning of our life together.

No... .forgiveness isn't really necessary.  He is who he is.  Cold, shallow and calculating.  He thinks the way he looks is enough.  Maybe for someone hard of thinking, hard of feeling and hard of hearing.  I have never really spoken poorly of him, but rather I have made excuses for his poor behaviors.  No more.  He's too old to behave this way.  And I'm not too old to remember how happy I CAN be.  So there I will be... .

Warmly,

Gemsforeyes

Oh Gems.  Hugs.  Yes -- you are going through it.  I relate.  Please believe me it gets better.

You can't forgive illness.  "There is no healthy closure for a sick mind"  Very well said.  I never got closure.  I gave up expecting it.

But you can and must forgive yourself for sticking around.  You're not now sticking around anymore, are you?  It's a new day!
Congratulations!

Love yourself.  Just looking at what you've written over the last year -- I can tell you -- you are EXTREMELY LOVABLE.  You've had some bad breaks is all.  We all do.  We all did.

You are now paddling out of the rapids.  Its scary and you're wondering how you got here.  But you're stronger for it.  And there are calmer waters ahead, I promise.  Go girl!

       

Gems, you've been through so much and you're so strong.

What you're doing with writing these feelings out is you're exorcising the fear, obligation and guilt that he instilled within you over the years. I understand because I did a similar writing exercise with a friend years ago that helped me break free of my ex-husband.

It started when my friend made a comment in a letter about what a "great relationship" I had. That was the straw that broke the camel's back and I wrote dozens of letters describing the horrific treatment that I had put up with over the years.

In doing so, I now had a witness to my abuse and I could never again just put up and shut up. It started things in motion so that I could eventually free myself of a marriage that felt as sticky as gum attached to the bottom of my shoe, and as disgusting.

You are already free of him, thankfully and now you've started the emotional housecleaning to free your spirit. Good work.  |iiii   |iiii

Much love to you, Gems. You are strong and solid and you know who you are.   

Cat

Hi Gems,

Yes, get it all out... .you have gone through a lot, and expressing/articulating exactly how he has hurt you and how that has made you feel is extremely important.

I hear your pain through the posts, and your anger.  Anger is OK, and even good right now... .it makes me think of the below (shortened) excerpt from the book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend.  The couples therapist had recommended it to me when my uBPDw and I started seeing her, and I have discovered many helpful truths and powerful messages. (For anyone who hasn't read it, I feel the need to note that the book is very heavy on bible references, which I personally don't relate as strongly to, but I found that the messages were all still very powerful).

"Emotions, or feelings, have a function.  They tell us something.  They are a signal.
   Here are some of the things our 'negative' emotions tell us.  Fear tells us to move away from danger, to be careful.  Sadness tells us that we've lost something--a relationship, an opportunity, or an idea.  Anger is also a signal.  Like fear, anger signals danger.  However, rather than urging us to withdraw, anger is a sign that we need to move forward to confront the threat... .[]
    ... .Anger tells us that our boundaries have been violated.  Much like a nation's radar defense system, angry feelings serve as an 'early warning system,' telling us we're in danger of being injured or controlled.
    []... .Anger also provides us with a sense of power to solve a problem.  It energizes us to protect ourselves, those we love, and our principles... .[]
    ... .However, as with all emotions, anger doesn't understand time.  Anger doesn't dissipate automatically if the danger occurred two minutes ago--or twenty years ago!  It has to be worked through appropriately.  Otherwise, anger simply lives inside the heart.
     This is why people with injured boundaries often are shocked by the rage they feel inside when they begin setting limits.  This is generally not 'new anger'--it's 'old anger.'  It's often years of nos that were never voiced, never respected, and never listened to.  The protests against all the evil and violation of our souls sit inside us, waiting to tell their truths."

So be angry and work through it.  I hope you are able to get some support and can focus on taking good care of yourself.  We're here to listen!

mw

Hello Gems,
In between your lines about forgiveness, I suspect some anger has been diffusing slowly in your mind. Is this right? Anger is not a good communication tool within our r/s. We all know that too well here. Also, when I am angry, I soon realize that this strong feeling is absolutely mine and no one else's responsability.  Nevertheless, I believe anger is an excellent reaction that might enable you to "see colors" again, to see the different shades of emotions on your mental palette and to listen thoroughly to your own feelings - when trying to let this going out quietly. You wrote in one of my post that you were not able to do so anymore.  But, reading this post, it seems that you righteously ask yourself what this anger is made of. To me it's a good sign and a way for getting out of the so grey limbo in which we have been sunk and for getting back on our own tracks.
Warmly,
M az

      ,

Gems,
You are so brave for facing and putting words to the hurts in your heart. Many times we push the thoughts away and they cause stress, anxiety and depression simply because we don't know how to go about giving a voice to the silent atrocities we carry within us.

You have beautifully and courageously faced and spoken the numerous incidents, actions, words and feelings that no longer remain bottled up in your soul without release. You have found a safe place to do so. We all support you and cheer you on in your progress.  |iiii

Bravo for articulating and honestly acknowledging the extent of your experiences. I believe you have made a powerful step towards healing.

Blessings, peace and comfort to you,

Redeemed

Hi Gems,
Healing definitely does take time and it can be frustrating when the mind has clarity yet the heart still feels stuck. You'll get there, just breathe, look around at your surroundings, get out in nature if you can, do some cardio, stretch... .forgive yourself, love yourself, know that you are doing your best.

 

Cat

Thank you, MW-

I sent the message on to our moderators.  I’m going to read your posts now.  Maybe they can help me!  I am one lost old soul these days... .  “old” being the operative word here... .

Love to you,
Gems

Thank you, Cat... .

My heart... .my heart... .I am so messed up.  I am eating dark chocolate candy kisses to keep weight on.  I called the suicide hotline a few weeks ago.  I hid my phone number and declined to provide the number when the woman asked.  I spoke for about two minutes and the woman said nothing.  I said in a quiet voice “I feel like I’m boring you.”  And she said “that was a very passive aggressive nasty thing to say.”  And I said “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings”.  And I hung up, and cried hysterically. 

And then I laughed hysterically, knowing if I’d had a gun, that may have been the night I would have used it.  And then I looked into my dog’s eyes and told her not to worry.

I have been trying for four months to find a therapist who doesn’t charge $300 per session.  NOT a psychiatrist, a psychologist.  It almost feels that there is no outside help for me.  My secrets have to remain secret.  And yet during my 19-year marriage, I had gotten to the point where I’d say aloud to myself, “I have to remember I feel like this”, and then I’d forget, and move on like the “happy idiot” my mom nicknamed me.  But for some reason now, why NOW, has all of this past stuff come boiling to the surface?  My answer... .because I’m not busy solving everyone else’s problems and taking care of a husband or step kids or BPDbf’s problems.  That’s why.  It’s only my pitiful self in the mirror and this silence is deafening.  I need a family here.

I am afraid to sleep at night.  I wake up screaming in drenched nightmares.  But I remember nothing.  I only want to sleep when it’s light out because I don’t dream then.  And there is a lie, I am certain, that I want exBPDbf to own up to.  I am becoming obsessed with learning the truth about it.  I will forgive it, but knowing the truth will help things line up for me.  But what good will knowing the truth do for me at this point?  I guess it will clear up whether he was a cheat or not.  I was so la di da above the fray that BPDbf was everything... .but NOT a “cheat”.  Right... .

How do I get help?

Gems... .

Hi Gems,
I can see you’re in a tremendous amount of pain right now. I’m so sorry.   

And wow, how pricey therapists are in your area! Are there any universities with internship graduate programs who offer low cost therapy nearby? Or do you have a particular religious background where you might find a spiritual advisor? And you’re looking for a psychologist, rather than someone with a masters degree in counseling?

My experiences with counseling lead me to believe it’s more about the individual and less about the particular degree, but I do understand that you are seeking a highly qualified person. How about in the meantime trying out someone, anyone, just so you have a real live person listening to you?

It feels good to be heard, and that’s something that lots of us Nons don’t experience much in our relationships with pwBPDs.

I’m so sorry that in your moment of need, the person on the suicide hotline was of no help.    Please Don’t let that stop you from reaching out.

Cat

Oh, Gems... .my heart breaks for you.  I'm so sorry you're in such a dark place, and I am glad you are sharing with us so that we can try to offer some support!


I am really upset for you that the person on that hotline was so insensitive and frankly harmful when you were in such a vulnerable place.  Was it a local support line?  Perhaps we can find a number for another hotline... .one with more qualified staffers in case you need to call again.

Can you talk more about your reassurance to your dog?  What was anchoring you that allowed you to tell her not to worry?  What do you hold onto in the times when you are feeling so low?  Are there friends that you can connect with and not feel so isolated?


My guess is that you do not have insurance coverage for therapy--is that correct?  Is there some particular dynamic you are looking for when you say you're looking for a psychologist?   Is it that you are looking for someone who will just do talk therapy rather than recommend/prescribe medications? 

You may already know this, but there are several different licenses a therapist can obtain without even being a clinical psychologist (much less psychiatrist), and that could make a difference in the rates they charge while still allowing you to get very effective therapy.  My therapist is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT).  There are also Licensed Personal Counselors (LPC) and Licensed Clinical Social Workers (LCSW) at her same practice, and only one Licensed Psychologist.

From a cost perspective, I think my therapist's normal rate is around $150, but I only pay a copay of $25 each session.  Even her normal rate is more than I could probably swing on my own... .my insurance is really the only way I have been able to get therapy through my situation.  It is ridiculous that it can be so prohibitively expensive, especially if you need more frequent sessions to actually make a difference during very troubled times.  Cat also had some good suggestions for other affordable avenues... .



Cat is so right, and it sounds very much like you need to be heard.  We are here of course, but I know it's different to be able to talk to someone live and in person.  With what we have all been through, having someone validate our experiences and remind us that we are not crazy is so, so important.  The ability to have them look us in the eyes when they say it can also make all the difference in the world.

How is your self-care lately?  I had someone ask me that in a recent post, and it really helped me to stop and focus on that for a moment... .recommit to doing more for myself.

mw

Mama-wolf brings up a good point about self-care. Even in the best of circumstances, being around a pwBPD can be draining and exhausting and it's good to get our batteries recharged however we can, whether it's through being with friends, doing art, spending time with your dog, working out, having a nice meal at a restaurant, listening to favorite music, whatever brings you joy.

And when you've been through a devastating and draining experience with a pwBPD, taking care of oneself is even more important.

It wasn't until I wrote dozens of letters to a friend, describing in detail the crazy relationship that I had endured with my ex-husband, that I began to find clarity about all I'd been through in those years. At the time, I was merely responding to the crisis du jour, and there seemed no end to the crises he created. And apparently he's still creating them because years later, I continue to get phone calls from unpaid creditors trying to track him down. 

Please keep writing out your feelings, Gems. Until you can talk to some one in person, we want to do all we can to help you right now.   

Hi Gemsforeyes,

Im sorry that you’re going through this and wow what an awful thing for that woman to say  

I just want to add to what mama-wolf and Cat Familiar Is there a group therapy with on or more psychologist the cost would be shared by the group?

Hey Gems,
I hope you're feeling better today. Another thought for low-cost therapy is your local DV center. They could help you unwind all those extremely painful experiences beginning when you were a child.

Let us know how you're doing when you can.

 

Cat

Gems,

I'm so sorry to hear that you reached out for support when feeling so low and had a less than positive experience right when you needed it the least.  Although this was not good reinforcement, I hope that you would still do the same if you found yourself in that position in the future.  There will be more than one operator and there are different numbers you can call.  I found Lifeline (https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/), which is a national service you can call on 1-800-273-8255 and they have a chat service on the website.  In fact, there is even a text service you can use, by simply sending the word Hello to 741741.  It's a free service.  Would you put the numbers into your phone just in case?

I'm relieved your dog was there for comfort.  Our lovely furries have a way of bringing us back to the present with their unconditional love and affection.

Have you had suicidal thoughts before and how are you feeling at the moment?  Recognising that we can reach that point gives us an opportunity to take preventative measures.  What was it that caused you to pick up the phone to the suicide helpline?

I read that you're having difficulty finding support from a therapist and I noticed on the Lifeline site that they have a search function for psychologists and support groups.  :)on't lose hope.  Help is out there.  

Here's the link to the page: Lifeline: Help Yourself (https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/help-yourself/)

Cat also has a good point above about DV support services.  They often offer counselling, support groups and other services for people recovering from abuse.  You could also ask the suicide helpline who has free walk in services in your area.  What do you think?

My heart goes out to you Gems.  You're having such a tough time and I'm glad to see so many rallying around you here and offering their support.  What have you found helps you at this time?  It sounds like Gems needs to be priority number one in your world and the kindness you show others has to be extended to yourself.  Pull out all the stops and do what soothes you.  Make yourself a project.  Project Gems restoration.  

Love and light x



      

From the bottom of my heart, I want to thank all of you for your kindness and your responses.  How I wish I could look you in your eyes... .

The suicide hotline number I called is the 800-273-8255.  I called the number AFTER this incident happened.

On 6/15, I was standing at the teller window at the bank and I felt numb in my left hand.  Then the numbness moved up my left arm into my neck.  I told the teller what was happening.  I took 4 baby aspirin from my purse and chewed them.  Then I became light-headed and I said, “I may be going down”.  I remember hanging onto the counter and thinking I didn’t want to break my teeth because I HATE dentists.  She called someone over, who took me to a chair.  I kept talking myself through it and said I needed to lift my arms over my head and smile, and I asked a young man if my face looked crooked.  He looked so scared.  They wanted an ambulance and I declined.  Then this lovely woman walked me to the urgent care center across the parking lot.  The light rain felt so nice and cool on that blistering hot day.  The doctor said I needed to go to the ER.  They wanted to call an ambulance.  I said no.

I calmly called my mom, and she came to the urgent care center and we went to the ER at the hospital.  We stopped at my house so I could change, get a sweater and put down food for my beautiful dog.  We were lucky... .there was no waiting time in the ER.  They did a CT scan of my brain, a chest X-ray, took most of the blood from my body and an EKG.  Then I had to do something I dreaded... .I texted exBPDbf and asked if necessary, could he stay with my dog for the night.  He said “absolutely YES”.  He LOVES my dog.  And then I began to panic.  I had left things I wrote as part of my healing right there on the coffee table.  He would see them for sure!  The hospital wanted to admit me for further tests.  They thought I had a tia stroke and there was something off in the EKG (‘Tho they didn’t tell me about that, I read it later).  But my panic over HB in my home took priority and I checked myself out AMA (against medical advice).  My mom actually agreed with me about HB being in my home, and my having to see him.

In the week leading up to the ER visit, I had had a few dizzy spells, often just after texting with exBPD bf.  We were attempting to meet to exchange items.  I had wanted to mail the items.  He wanted to get a meal.  I relented and suggested a restaurant for a salad.  He wanted to go to the restaurant where we had our first date - a special place (but relocated).  His texts were escalating and once again he brings my divorce into the mix, which has NOTHING to do with anything.  So I said, let’s just please mail the items.  I think he ended with a nice F* you”.  I got dizzy in my whole body.  And knew he’d never send what he stole... .the last nasty text took place the day before the ER visit.

At any rate, This medical incident led to a good conversation with my brother, where he assured me that if anything happened to me he would take my dog.  I also gave him my account passwords and changed my bills from online and my p.o. box to come to my home.  My brother didn’t know this, but I was “organizing” to take my life.  It’s hard to write this, that it was a plan.

So when the pain of living became unbearable that night and I was scared and made the call, I was stunned to hear the comments of the person on the other end.  I thought, “gee, maybe Kate Spade and Anthony Boudain also got this operator”.  But my dog, my dog... .the thought of taking her with me entered my mind, but she has such a smile.  How COULD I?  I wouldn’t .

There’s more... .I’m sorry.
Gemsforeyes

There is this silence, but it has a loud sound.  And there is a visual that goes with it.  It’s hard to explain and I have NEVER told anyone.  The visual looks like round empty circles that begin nowhere and end nowhere.  They keep moving.  They are almost how you would define a picture of dizziness. 

I started seeing it and hearing it right after the molestation began, when I was 6 years old.  The first time I heard the loud silence and saw its sound I was trying to make my bed.  I asked my sister to come into our room and make some noise so I could finish making my bed. 

The neighbor man who did this to me was the father of my 2 best friends.  They lived directly behind our house and there was a high chain link fence between the properties.  I would scale that fence with no problem to go play in their yard.  I was a born athlete.  I think this went on for about a year.  I think I was 7 when it ended.  He first exposed himself to me when I had to sell girl scout cookies for my older sister when she had pneumonia.  I knocked on their door and he told me to come back a little later because his wife would get mad if she knew he was eating sweets.  Because I was 6 months older than his oldest daughter, and I was so “smart”, he said I should be their teacher.  So he would tell the girls to stay in the other room and he would take me in his room and put his hand over my mouth.  Make threats if I told anyone.  “You have heard the belt”.  I will only hit them harder, and then I will hit you.  Sometimes while we played ice skating in the yard, he would call one of his daughters inside and beat her with the belt.  He told me that he knew this would make my daddy so happy for later, but NOT to tell, or my daddy would go to jail.  I had NO VOICE. 

I don’t know why his wife was never there.  It was his second marriage.  He had a son in Vietnam.

It is only the last time that I am certain he put his big ugly body on top of me.  And somehow, I was able to slip out from under him and escape.  I tore out of that house, into the backyard and scaled that fence.  Only I miscalculated.  I landed with my neck and face on the ground and my legs up on the fence.  My mom happened to be at the kitchen sink, looked out the window and saw me.  She ran out screaming, it must have been a weekend because my dad was home.  They brought me inside and tried to calmed me down.  First I couldn’t talk and then I wouldn’t.  I kept saying daddy would go to jail.  And then I talked.  I remember my mom crying hysterically and my father hitting the walls.  And then my dad left to get a gun.  My mom called the police to stop my dad from killing the monster.  The police stopped my dad in time.

The next day my best friends were gone.  I knew I did something bad to lose my best friends.  The house was empty.  This was NEVER discussed again.  EVER.  This happened in 1963-1964.  For YEARS, I was afraid to be alone in the car with my dad.  I was afraid he would go to jail for being with me.  In 1981 when I was 23, I was away on a special project for work and my sister came to visit.  There was a program on tv about child molestation.  I said “He’s just like Mr. G”.  My sister spun around and yelled “YOU REMEMBER THAT? Mommy and Daddy don’t think you remember that!”  And I said, “I was 6, I wasn’t a baby!”... .

So no voice... .I never said a word to my mom and dad.  I wish I had.  Because when the rape happened,  I felt I couldn’t say a word about that either.

I have never written about this.  But 2 years ago, I did try to talk it out with a therapist at a sliding scale place.  Our first meeting was introductory.  At the second meeting, she wanted to know EXACTLY what he did to me.  I started to cry a bit and said I wasn’t quite ready to get into that detail.  She told me I was being “dramatic”.  So I picked up my purse, told her she was dangerous and left.

So tell me... .who are you supposed to trust when it’s dark and you’re this old?  And if I tell you about the rape you’ll say,  she MUST have BPD.  MY exBPDbf said it was a wonder that I didn’t have it... .that was my “aha” moment... .when I knew he had been diagnosed.

Thank you for letting me park these words in a place no one will find them.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Oh Gems.

I wish I had words for you.  I am glad you spoke of it.  What evil there is in the world! I pray for you.  The only words I can think of are that these ripples of evil and damage must somehow stop and not allow to continue out into the lake.  What was done to you was terrible, please find yourself a good therapist, you were wise to leave the dangerous one.  It will be OK.  You are lovable and loved.

Seenoway

Good evening Gemsforeyes,

First of all, that took guts to share that, and I am very sorry that you had that happen to you so long ago, but I am glad that your parents reacted and did what they did in your defense, mine did not.

I was also molested when I was about five or six, I don’t remember exactly how old I was, then again (almost) when I was about maybe eight, but I knew it was wrong and Inran away, both time Mom and stepdad did absolutely nothing in my defence.

My Grandparents took me over to raise at about age nine... .and it never happened again.

I grew up and met a girl, we got pregnant and married at age sixteen and eighteen, and a few years later I found out she was also  CSA survivor as well... .but her story was much longer in duration than mine,

We and three children, and the oldest is autistic, .unfortunately we divorced about twelve years ago after having been married for almost twenty two years... .

I only started to really understand personality disorders about the time of the divorce... .now, Inhavw been remarried for about seven years... .I thought I was knowledgeable but Inwas not, only in the last fifteen months have I really begun to understand,

Looking back into my previous marriage, I can see that I may have myself been presenting what may have been traits of BPD way back then, yes... .that’s what I think, Inwas pretty mixed up for a long time... .long story.

I guess I just wanted you to know that you are not alone, Inhave not talked about any of this to anyone in years... .certainly NOT my u/BPD wife whom I am married to now.

I am now fifty two... .and I do wish that I’d had the knowledge I think I presume to have now about thirty something years ago, as things may have been different?

If nothing else, all these life experiences made me a very protective father, and a caretaker... .

I tried to save my first wife, but I failed, .however this current and last wife... .I don’t feel that way now, .as I understand that “you cannot save”... .no matter how bad in your heart that you want to.

I had zero buisiness remarrying, looking back now, the first marraige damaged me too much.

Take care and we are all listening, Red5

Wow, Gems, I am so sorry for this hurt that you've carried for so long without being able to share the burden.

Perhaps the 2018 version of Gems can go back to the 1963 version of Gems and hold her in your arms and tell her that you're there for her and you will do everything you can to make things better for her.

I understand about the visual. I have one of them myself that terrified me for years. It's a swirling mass of black and red and it's related to losing my grandmother, aunt and cousin in a car wreck. My mom and I were supposed to be in the car with them, but she changed plans at the last minute. For years as a child, I was terrified to ride in a car. I tried to paint this visual once. Perhaps you can do that with yours.

 
Cat

Red,
Thanks for sharing your story. That people can do such awful things to children is unthinkable, but I know it happens much more often than we know. And when adults don't step in to help... .again unthinkable. Thankfully you had the love and support of your kind grandparents.

 
Cat

Oh my dear kind friends... .

I am crying with this support.  I cannot tell you the number of times I have tried to communicate the depth of this pain over the years; and have NEVER been able to communicate what happened or receive what you have given me tonight.

The permission to express this pain from seemingly a hundred years ago.  And Red5, by what you've written and your pain around that, I release my mom and dad from ALL culpability for not talking to me about what happened after that first day.  I see now that they were most likely trying to protect me by not MAKING me talk about it any more than I HAD to.  I was too little to really understand what had happened... .at least in their minds.  Maybe they figured if I was bothered by it, I would bring it up later, and I never did.  And since the devil that did this was gone, they may have felt the problem was "solved".

My dad has been gone for almost 26 years and mom is 86.  Too painful and meaningless to bring it up now.

Cat - I'm so sorry for your terribly painful loss.  I was thinking, the pictures in our minds can be altered so that we CAN transfer what's internal into something tangible and more beautiful than what has been haunting us.  I have a photograph that my older cousin recently sent to me.  It's an old black and white of me on a tricycle, from before this happened.  My facial expression is one of pure serenity.  My exuBPDbf fell in love with the photo and had asked for an enlargement of it.  He told me that sometimes he could see that same look on my face.  So I think I'll make a collage with that photo and green grass - no fence, no barriers to freedom or escape.

And Red5 - I understand how MUCH you have gone through and are currently facing.  I am so sorry, and yet so grateful for how open your heart is to others -me.  If you want or need to process more about what you went through as a child, I will do that with you.  As I'm sure others here will as well.  And I am certain that experience has made you a protective father.  And I too, have recently questioned whether for a period of time I developed some BPD traits, especially after what happened to me in college.  Please know, we are here for you.

I have one more thing to post about.  The worst thing.  I wrote most of it a few months ago, and then I hid it from myself.  This is the thing that scares me most.

From the bottom of my heart, I thank you.

Gemsforeyes

Gems, thank you so much for sharing this with us and giving us a chance to sit with you in your pain.  You are not alone, and as you can see there are many others here who can relate to what you have been through... .are still going through.

I can't imagine the horror of both what you experienced and the lasting effects of the trauma.  How are you doing?  From moment to moment, what are you doing to take care of yourself?  I know that it's scary to revisit these things, and I'm sure it's very intense.  I really want to make sure you are taking care of yourself so that you have the strength to keep going, keep sharing, and keep seeking support in whatever form you can.

mw

Gems,
Here's hugs for your bravery for sharing those painful memories.    

As said in politics, but equally true for our hidden pain, "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." Of course that comes with a disclaimer, as you've certainly experienced: it's important for us to be safe.

I certainly hope you can find a trusted therapist who can help you process all you've been through. In the meantime, please keep sharing with us.

Thanks for mentioning the visual. I was disappointed that my painting didn't convey the full scope of what I saw in my mind's eye, but it was a snapshot, not the swirly mass that I used to see. And interesting to think of it now, because I realized that I hadn't seen that visual since I painted it many years ago.

You might think of doing a self portrait from that photo. I did one many years ago when I lived in North Carolina, not long after college. Doing it gave me time to process lots about my crazy childhood with my BPD mother and how I resembled her, but didn't want to be like her. At the time, I had cut off contact with my parents and was finally finding some autonomy and freedom from my mother's control. The day I finished it, my parents showed up on my doorstep. Unbeknownst to me they had driven from California across country and asked someone at the gas station in the little town where I lived for directions to my place.

I still have that drawing and there's a sadness in the face I no longer recognize.

Here's to the healing power of art and writing.  :thought:

Cat

Gems,

Even on an platform like this, where the Internet gives us some degree of anonymity, your candidness and honesty regarding the past that has haunted you for so long is absolutely courageous. It would take a decent amount of courage just to write out experiences like that in a journal that no one would ever read. I encourage you to remind yourself that it takes a large degree of inner strength to reclaim your voice when for so long you felt unjustly silenced. You were victimized, but you do not have to remain a victim. Taking such bold action in order to find healing is a mighty powerful step towards gaining freedom from the past. I believe it is a good indication of the degree of character which you possess. You are a survivor, and you are a fighter, and you can be victorious.

I did not suffer from physical or sexual abuse as a child, but I did experience a "date rape" as an adult. For years I blamed myself because I had had an excessive amount to drink that night and also I had taken some pills which only served to increase the effect of the alcohol. I accepted a ride with a man I worked with who had tried to date me for some time. He took me back to his apartment, even though that was not what I wanted to do, and proceeded to take advantage of me. I did not consent to or want that type of contact with him, but I was severely intoxicated and so I blamed myself. I thought it was my fault for being irresponsible and not being physically and mentally alert enough to say no. It was years before I came to terms with the fact that it was actually a rape. Even now I am inclined to think that I am being dramatic when I say that. But the fact is that intoxicated or not I did not consent to the encounter. That is rape.
My resume of physical abuse would take up more space than I care to claim here. I could not count the number of physical attacks I have suffered. More times than not I have wondered if I might have BPD due to all the trauma I experienced and the emotional instability I displayed for a large portion of my life. I have progressed immensely and I now believe that self-awareness is probably the one reason I can find that convinces me I don't have some type of emotional regulation disorder, but for years I really did think I was crazy. Now I wonder how I manage to not be.
Suicide is not a stranger to me. I wish I could say it was, but unfortunately I have had more experience with suicidal feelings in myself and others than I care to acknowledge. My mother attempted suicide when I was two. She shot herself, but survived. However, I never got the guts to ask her why or what drove her to it. Even when I was diagnosed with depressive disorder and attempted suicide myself, I still could not talk to my mom about it. Now that she is gone, I wish I had. But I kept silent because I couldn't find the words. The emotional nature of it gave me such anxiety that I would nearly panic when I thought of it. I avoided it instead. I no longer have suicidal thoughts these days, but it is not in the far distant past. The last attempt was just under four years ago, right after the death of my father. i am so glad I didn't succeed, and I am glad that you did not go through with it either.
Something that bothers me is that the people who answer hotlines like the one you called are not necessarily licensed counselors. They may not have any formal training at all. Some of them are volunteers and they do undergo a training program before they go "live" on the lines, but that does not mean they are qualified to counsel someone in such distress. Mostly they are supposed to provide support and discern whether or not authorities and emergency personnel should be called. I think it is a terrible thing that the person you got on the other end of that line was so callous regarding your distress and so ignorant of the urgency the matter warranted.
Ted Bundy once worked as a suicide line volunteer, if that gives you any idea about the qualifications of some of these people.
Incidentally, I did get your private message and tried to reply, but it would not let me. I am so glad to "see" you again, and to find you still on the boards, hashing out the messy process of healing and not withdrawing into yourself without reaching out for support. Silence is painful. But you have a choice now to let your voice be heard, and we are listening... .always. God Bless you Gems. You were the first person to reach out to me when I made my initial "cry for help" post. It meant so much that someone answered when I cast that first line out. I hope we can give a little bit of that back to you here.

Blessings and Peace to you,

Redeemed

Gems and Redeemed,
I agree! It's very brave to honestly sort through one's past.  |iiii  And it is the key to healing.

It certainly has helped me, along with all these wonderful voices of support here on this forum.

Those of us who question our sanity and whether we have a personality disorder ourselves--are probably very unlikely to have one.   More likely is that we are survivors of relationships with damaged people and are searching for ways to thrive. And one of the first strategies we undertake is a thorough self-examination.

Once we've done that, the next step is to figure out where we want to be and how to get there. Sometimes it's just a matter of taking baby steps and putting one foot in front of the other--and that is enough. Just progress in the right direction.

Reading and posting here is so healing and we learn that our struggles are not unique to us, but shared by many.

Cat

I heard this on a YouTube channel a while back... .something to the effect,

... ."people who wonder if they have a personality disorder, and actively pursue to inquire about it, and learn about it, ."am I crazy?"... .these people are the sanest people on the earth"... .

Makes sense to me !

Red5

Cat and Red5,
You are right. The denial or oblivious attitude is the telltale sign of someone who can't or won't recognize an issue.

And I always heard that you're only as sick as your secrets. Talking about it relieves it of power.

Blessings and peace,
Redeemed

I just caught up on this thread and am absolutely floored by the strength of bpdfamily.  What an amazing community. 

Red5, Cat, and Redeemed, thanks for sharing your stories.  I was moved by your willingness to discuss deeply personal experiences to help Gems and others.  Your bravery and compassion is a direct antidote for the terrible isolation of abuse.

Thanks to mama-wolf for your wisdom, Seenowayout for your compassion, and Margot az for your kind note.  SunandMoon, HQ and Mutt, thanks for being there.

Gemsforeyes, your courage to talk about so many scary topics is remarkable.  You have a voice.  We hear you. 

It sounds like you've had a few disappointing experiences seeking help and that certainly might make it discouraging to try to reach out again, but the help you need is out there.  DV and CSA are tough topics.  Not every therapist has what it takes to deal with them.  I know from experience that finding the right person can make a huge difference.  It has helped set me on the path to recovery.  I liked the suggestion to check with a local DV center.  If you have more than one DV nonprofit in your area, ask at several, and ask someone who you've had a good conversation with and built trust with.  There are therapists who are trusted by the DV folks to deal with DV issues in the right way, but they are special.  EMDR is a technique that can be very effective at dealing with trauma.  If money is an issue, you might start by seeing them less frequently.  The first task is to find the right person, someone you trust who has the right skills.  You are important.  You deserve to be helped and be happy.

While I have an opportunity, I also want to thank you for all that you do to support others here.  You are a vital part of this family!

It's been a few days.  How are you doing?

WW