BPDFamily.com

Hi all,
I am looking for some guidance. Short story: D almost 20 BPD. Issues starting age 14 or so. Anger, outbursts, scared of abandonment etc...

Now at university and doing well, part time. Had boyfriend who is nice. Now I know she is cheating on him. She has lied to me about many things. She was home for the easter weekend, then left yesterday to go meet her boyfriend (yah right!) So she gets home just after supper and is in a bad mood. I stood up from the couch and said "Hey honey shall I make you a plate of supper?" Well, she said she was in a bad mood and asked for a hug. Well I quickly said as I would normally say, "What happened?" then I reached to hug her. She threw a fit, said I was always interrogating her (?) This went on for over an hour and she kept saying she hates it here, she has no one who loves her she is going for DBT and changing but I am not. So she leaves, she has her own car and apartment at school. School is only half hour from home. So I guess she has left. I texted her that I love her and hope she is safe. I think the other guy dumped her and was soo upset. She says she cannot ever tell me anything as she never gets the reaction she wants. Well I am sorry none of us are perfect. She is studying psychology and loves to tell me what is wrong with me but then says she is not putting me down.
She has NOT yet had a suicide attempt but says she " Has no life that is worth living".

I Have PTSD from her issues going back three yrs and to be honest, I like it when she is not home. The home is more peaceful. I have anxiety when I know she may be coming home- panic sets in I get very upset. She expects when she gets home after 4-5 days at school, we have to set everything aside and just sit with her like a guest. I told her last week she is my child and this is her home and she is not a guest. I also told her that others are living their lives and we are happy she is home and we try to engage with her and go out for suppers etc and I try to plan stuff but the other children have their lives too.(17 boy and 13 yo D). I have my stuff to do. If I go to the basement to workout she gets mad - it is only half hour to one hour!
 I always pause to answer a question she may pose, as I don't want to "get the answer wrong". Those pauses always make her mad. What does that mean, why did you say it that way she will yell.

I am going for EMDR to help me process some of the trauma I have been through with her.  She does not know that as it is not her business, but she yells "What are YOU doing to change- I am trying to change" Are we supposed to change?  I am trying to validate, listen, but sometimes I may jump in with a solution- well you know how that goes.

She was NOT abused, She was cherished. I have had one on one time with her. Is it not normal to ask your child how their day was? She would just tell me to Shut up and it was not my business.  I work full time, but as I am self employed, I was home every day when they got home from school. Family dinners at the table every night. I cannot say or do anything right and because of all the "evidence" It is MY fault. She used to tell me to call children's aid on myself so I would go to jail that I am a bad mother.


I want her safe so I can relax. I want her to be independent. I want this to end.
I have read Walking on egg shells.I have looked up SET. I try to validate but how do you validate "Life sucks I want to die" When I say there is hope she says "hope breeds misery" She says she has no friends and I say "that must be hard" WhenI give suggestions they are thrown out as I don't understand etc.

I could go on and on. Sorry this is so long. I really wish I was someone else. thanks

I get it.  I am in your shoes.  Sorry she accuses you of terrible things you'd never do- I believe you when you say you cherished her.  I cherished my girl, now 17.  Im sitting here dreading the Easter Day that used to be so much fun, because I know she'll say something cruel about what I bought her, or just dump it in the trash like Christmas. 

That's why I'm here I guess.  It's so important to know you're not alone.  It's part of this self care people keep talking about. 

this is probably a bad analogy but sometimes it feels like I'm feeding a baby that's starving who just keeps vomiting the food.  It's a no win.  All I can do is leave the food next to her and pray she finds a way to feed herself. 

Thank you Faith Spring,
I like your analogy about feeding. I think it is spot on. We try to "feed them a good life and ways to help themselves ie parent them well" and it just comes up.

I hope it gets better for all of us.

I don't think I will post anymore

Hello please - I saw your message that you don't think you will post anymore and it concerned me... . Are you all right, please? What is the reason behind your post?  Please know that you are safe here, we are non-judgmental and we care... .very much.    I hope that you will share what is going on, please.   MomMae  

HeyPlease, I hope you continue to post because you put into words what. Was feeling.  But if you don't feel like it I understand. 

It really is draining.  I'm listening now to my kid laughing hysterically alone and worry if it's really crying.  I never know when to relax. 

I do like reading posts from parents.  God I felt like such a failure only a week ago, before I found this place.  I see now, or at least read now, there are so many good people out there who are trying so hard to deal with what feels the impossible. 

Hi please

I too hope you'll stay with us, parents here and the resources have helped me turn things around from fear of losing my daughter in 2015 to a life worth living for me and my daughter - as Faith Spring says trying so hard to deal with what feels the impossible. I kept pushing through.

Hang in there, we are here for you  

WDx

Hi please

It's really hard, you are right in there and we'll help you move forwards, gently, small steps worked for me. One thing that helped me is me stepping out of the drama, full face I might lose my dear DD, um not on my watch mate, I'm doing my very best like you and all parents here, we all get it. It helped me reclaim me from walking in the BPD spiral, provided me balance, way forward, DD too.

 5.09 | "FOG" fear, obligation, guilt
 (http://www.ttps://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0)

We can step aside of BPD and help our loved ones by the changes we make for us. Your DD's responses right now, the tools and lessons to your right - take time for us to master, some are counter intuitive, as Lollypop said a few years ago - ok I'm doing yet another re-do, yeh got there!

How are you feeling today please? What's happening?

Hugs to you      

WDx

Hi Please,

       I can join the others with you here right now, I'm in the boat with you. My BPDD is 35 she lives with me and I'm raising my grandson. The echo here in this place is validation that all of us as BPD parent share the same feelings: exhaustion, failure, ANGER, aloneness, confusion, wondering, you name it, you'll find it here. When I found this place I just didn't know how I would get through another day, I was so done!
       One of the biggest themes I read here is parents asking "how can my child be this awful, mean, change instantaiously"? I hear you, I said the same things. My daughter was LOVED still is, even if she can't see it, feel it or accept it. The reason I found this place was because I love her so much, I was looking for answers like you are now.
         The very first thing I learned was SELF CARE. It's so hard but we need it! You need it. I'm taking myself to the chiropractor this morning because that's part of my self care. Be encouraged Please, everyone here is here for you. Take hope.

Hi please

I just want to join the others and reach out to you, it sounds like you are doing an amazing job. It can be so difficult at times with a BPD child, especially when you have your own problems to deal with and other children to consider too. My heart goes out to you, it really does.

You say that your daughter asked what you are doing to change and you ask “Are we supposed to change?”  No, we do not have to change, however we can change our approach when dealing with our children, there are so many resources on this site that are really helpful. We can all help and support you, we all know what you are going through. Reading others posts and posting yourself can really help, it’s helped me such a lot and others too.

I hope that you stay with us, take care x   

Thank you to those who emailed me. Your concern is greatly appreciated. I am really struggling. I hate the verb "to validate". She wants me to validate everything she is feeling all the time. Even if it is the fact that the sky is blue and she finds it upsetting. REALLY!
I know about validation, I know about SET. I know about radical acceptance and boundaries- and I HATE knowing all this. I hate it. It has been hell for at least three years.
She wants me to go to a parents/carers DBT information- and all I think it will be is  parent bashing. She has told me it is all my fault and says that her T feels we have an invalidating household.

She was a baby that could never be soothed. She never slept at all. We would try for hours until 2 in the am and would be so frustrated after hours of trying to be calm I think that is all she saw. 5 hours of calm and validations and half hour of frustration on our part and now we have invalidated her her whole life.

She starts a fight with younger 13 yo sister and then sister fights back (words only) then she gets upset and wants me validate that she is hurt by younger sister? that is NUTS!She started it. If I am upset it is because I hate her. and then I have to calm her down and not take care of myself.

She runs after me physically if I try to remove myself and  I am trying to set boundaries since my first post in January and it is NOT working. I can't get 5 min to myself when she is around. She is mad all the time and says that is who she is- I have to accept it. When I ask her not to shout at me and try to walk away she says "when are you going to talk about it, give me a time" If I say I need a break she says "so you hate me? If you hate me and don't want a relationship then I am going to kill myself"

My husband is an ostrich and runs away when she is at me. He says she should just move out altogether. I try to make him understand that she is in pain. But I have no more compassion at all. Maybe I don't want a relationship with her at all.

But with all the stuff she has done and said ( she did try to strangle me in January 2016), screams all the time. Physically corners me. I have panic attacks before I know she is coming.I dread talking with her. She says I cannot ask any questions as that is interrogation. She is doing DBT and tells me how to act. I can never have the right words ever. She says that her T says that our household is invalidating. At this point  I feel I am clinically depressed. I cry all the time. I feel defeated by her. I broke down and cried last night in front of her and now I feel I have lost all my strength. I am embarrassed that the she -devil saw that and I am humiliated by her and in front of her. I cannot do this anymore.

I was a very strong woman. I am a leader in my field and community. I am the go to person. I am now nothing, I have nothing, I am defeated. I have no support. I  am alone. I cannot fight anymore. I don't know who I am anymore, I have no friends at all. I have not told anyone, I have withdrawn from life. I have two other kids and that is all I am living for. I am a crumpled woman with no life at all.
I HATE THIS SOO MUCH

I don't want this anymore. I really don't

Hi Please

Wherever you are today and if you are reading the posts, please know that we all recognise your pain and how diificult it can be at times to be here sharing.  It is all consuming, draining and many other things and we all have our different ways of coping.

Sometimes things are so overwhelming its hard to know which direction to move in.

I hope through the fog that you can recognise what a wonderful person/mother you are and you have beautiful children that love you and need you in their life.

However it is so important for you to take care of you at the moment.

Thinking of you with.
Merlot

I might have missed this but how old is your daughter? Has she been hospitalized before?

I am so so sorry that you're going through this. I think a lot of us have been where you are emotionally. What do you do when she threatens you physically?

Do you have a therapist for yourself? it sounds like you are handling this mostly alone. I've been there. It truly is hell.

How can we best be of help to you right at this moment?  We are here for you.

hi Merlot and hyacinth bucket,
Thank you
She is 20 at the end of May.She has  NO job( at university)and says "I will never get a job- you just work all your life and then die". She is dependent on us for everything and I mean everything. I was thinking we support her while she gets the help she needs and then she will take off and fly- oh how wrong was I!

She was hospitalised after a traumatic event. She dissociated after she totalled her brand new car of one month. I kept asking her to get help. She was in last yr of high school then and she was acting odd at school. The social worker at school would call me all the time and say she was acting weird. took her to emerg the first time and she told them she was not homicidal or suicidal and they sent her home no psych eval at all. The next time I called the emerg and said that if she does NOT get a psych assessment that day,as my H was driving her to Emerg for acting really odd at school, that if she committed suicide that I would sue them. Well she got formed, involuntary admission for 72 hr to get a psych assessment- first diagnosis was bipolar ( I am in the medical field so I knew that was not it.) I thought it was a type of depression with disassociation. Then after one yr with psychologist got DX with of borderline.
She is well aware that if I feel threatened physically I call 911 (in Canada) and I have twice only. The first time she was physical I went into shock when she stretched her hand out to grab my neck. I went limp and then she let go. She said you are F***ing weak I hate you" She let go of me and I said "If you ever touch me again like that I will call the police" So then I called the police when I felt she would hurt me and they said "well if you did something wrong to her you will have to change" then the last time was when she took pills and did not swallow (she is scared to take meds) when she cornered me in the bathroom  when I said I need a break.

So she does know that I WILL call the police if needed.
I have a therapist as I am doing EMDR to process the trauma and had seen another therapist for 7 year until 2017. My 13 yo has anorexia and was diagnosed one yr ago. That was hell too, but she is now the beautiful, healthy happy loving child she was prior to her eating disorder. She is in a good place now and I know how to parent her it seems. My son is wonderful. If feel that we are in a very weird world and that there is no normal world anymore. I am envious of others with "normal lives and kids"

I grew up in an abusive home and said I would be a better mother. Maybe I don't deserve a good life. I really just want a plain and simple life. I really don't need excitement at all.

Yes I am so alone. I am so sorry to ramble. I am so sorry I am here
Thanks again.

hi please,

thank you for responding. I hope it is helping a little.   

You have been through so much. I am so sorry. I know what you mean about wanting a simple life. I am grateful every day nothing 'exciting' happens. Boring is so nice.

How is she doing in university? 

That is such a hard position to be in. I kept thinking the same thing... .she just needs to get help, and she'll be better. Our daughter moved out basically to do drugs, which was fine with us. She got into a lot of trouble, legal and otherwise, and begged to move back in. We let her but with strict rules she had to adhere to. She met none of them and so we more or less kicked her out. But she has the apt for 2 more months that I cosigned on (we have adoption assistance until she turns 21).

She has learned a lot and gotten emotionally better over the past year since we made her move out. She can't hold a job, loses everything important (IDs, birth certificates, house keys, phones... you name it). She lives in utter filth. It's been really difficult, I have been working really hard to reclaim my sanity and stop thinking/worrying about her constantly.

All that is to say, I so understand where you are. I really feel for you. I wish there was some magical advice I could give you. The one piece of advice I would give, aside from taking care of yourself, is prioritize your relationship with your husband. My husband and I almost didn't make it through all of that. He resented her and was angry and I was still enabling/pulling out heroic efforts to help her. I almost had two complete break downs last year and I realized something had to change.

You are a good mom and you are doing your very best. You wouldn't be here if you didn't care.

Does your daughter have any ability to empathize? does she like animals?

PS I hope over time you will feel less alone here. Please don't ever apologize for rambling, and especially not for being here. We are all parents with children just like yours and no one in the world will understand better what you are feeling. We are all here for you.

Much love.

Hey Please, I really feel for you. It’s a chronic weariness isn’t it? I really think that bluek9 is spot on on the self care front. Especially in regard to having 2 other kids. On a separate note, I can’t help but feel that our frantic efforts to ‘not invalidate’ can be as equally inauthentic and artificial as invalidations themselves. The notion that we want to be with them unconditionally, at all times, irrespective of behaviours, and do their jobs, and carefully plan & monitor all our utterances and endure insults etc feels quite false. The world will not embrace these things. Can I take the example of her being annoyed at you for taking an hour to work out in the basement while she is home. Objectively this is reasonable. Is there a way therefore for her overt but irrational annoyance to not upset you?

Hi Hyacinth,
She is doing well in university and loves it(?)
One thing I note is the shame I have that this is going on in my home... .
so sad.

hi dogdays,
thank you for "hearing me"
The working out example is a good one.
Yes I do it to help me. I predict what she is going to do and say when I work out and I seem to predict it 99% of the time.
I say I am going to work out. She says "when will you spend time with me then" I say, when I am done, "What do you want to do"? She says well "you should have a plan". " I come home on weekends  and you need to spend time with me" "Why don't you spend time with me. Do you hate me? Why do you hate me? If you hate me then I should die" Then she follows me crying etc. I tell her that it is normal to work out or I just say nothing. She corners me, yelling screaming she wants to die, why do I hate her etc... .
I really don't want to spend time with her at all. There is no moment of peace.

It goes like that all that time. Different event same outcome. H does nothing! He may say just to leave me alone and walks away. I tell her I need my time too.
She gets mad if in the moment I say I need to set boundaries as her DBT therapist has taught her that you cannot set boundaries while in an emotional state. So when it is calm we talk (she is rarely calm) but the cycle starts again. When she gets really emotional she gets in her car and goes back to university. Then wonders if we want her back and says that I walk away from her. She has always run away - when small she would go out the door and walk around the block. I would send her dad to get her and now she says that I NEVER came to get her- invalidation again.  I think that no matter what I do or say or how I do anything, she will find invalidation to back up her story to her DBT T. 

Just a question do these therapist really know if a household is invalidating? They only hear her side and her PERCEPTION Of what happened. So yes in her mind she was invalidated, it is a wonder why my other 2 kids don't have this BPD ?
I am furious.

I see no end in sight. I only see a bleak life for me. I dread knowing what a dysfunctional family life is doing to the other 2 kids. This is scarring down to our souls.
thank you

Please,

Yours are among the most honest and direct expressions of this experience I've read so far.  I was afraid, before reading your posts, to admit to myself let alone here that I can't stand being around her.  If I'd met her for the first time today I wouldn't like her.  I'd dislike her.  I'd think she was a manipulative snowflake.  If I didn't know her sweet heart and genuine personality from her childhood I think I'd kick her out. 

She's only 17 and I've already researched how to get her into foster care.  And told her that's an option. I believe she hurt our cat.  I've seen her go after the cat and his tail is broken and I think she did something. 

When I had one breast removed from cancer, afterwards, she drew a picture of me - full body - with one breast cut out. 

Now my sisters and mom and friends all say it's a phase, it was the cancer that scared her, she's just sensitive and scared.  I'm afraid she's not BPD.  I'm afraid she's a sociopath. 

She just got inducted to the national honor society.  On the drive over to the school for the induction she explained how she will never forgive me for my series of abuses and neglect. 

I'm sorry I don't mean to hijack your posts!  I just appreciate how honest you are. It brings out the honesty in me.  So thanks. 

Hi please,

I am so glad that you have stayed with us and are continuing to post.  Venting on this forum is a very important part of self-care, it helped me immensely, even though it didn't necessarily solve everything.  Like Faith Spring expressed, it is important for us to be totally honest here if we really want to connect with each other and feel understood.  There is another recent post on the board by Dogdays about feeling angry that has elicited much response - because we have all felt it, and felt guilty about feeling it.

I am just going to wonder aloud and throw out some possible suggestions for working toward changing the cycle that you are in with your daughter coming home on weekends... .  I have been in a similar position with my dd now21 when she would come home for weekends and they would spiral out of control...  

During a calm period in the week while she is at away at school, would it be possible to come up with a plan that you are willing to live with (boundaries) and then very simply state it to her by text?  It could be something along the lines of, "Hi dd.  I am worn out from our conflict on the weekends as we seem to have gotten into a bad routine and have decided to try a new approach as I cannot continue like this. I want to spend time with you, but I am no longer going to engage in arguments.  I love you, but I can no longer listen to you tell me that I am a bad mother/person. If you can't go along with this, I am sorry, but you cannot come home for the weekend.  So here's my plan... .I thought it would be nice if when you arrive home we grab a pizza and catch up on how your week at school has been and what's been going on around here.  Saturday I need time to get my own things done without interruption, but let's pick a time that just the two of us can ... .(whatever would be natural for you to do) and then we'll have dinner as a family.  Before you head back on Sunday, I'd love to take the dog for a walk with you and just chat."

I know this likely sounds very simplistic and likely seemingly impossible at this moment.  However, from experience I know something has to be done to break the rut that can spiral around BPD.  As has been said by other members, self-care is really first and forefront.  Laying out what you will and will not tolerate (and sticking with it as best you can), as well as planning out some time to spend with dd, can be the beginning of breaking the cycle and starting to get your self-esteem back. 

I would suggest that similarly, you spell out your exact expectations of her when she comes home for the summer (assuming she is).  (ie. supporting her own expenses by getting a job)

You have nothing to feel shame about, please.  If anyone judges you for what is going on in your family, they are the ones who should feel shame.  All of us here on this board know that BPD (or another mental illness) can strike ANY family, at any time.  You did not cause it, you are not to blame.  Any therapist who is focussing on that is just wasting time that could be spent on finding coping mechanisms to change inappropriate reactions and behaviours.  Validation is all well and good, but you deserve validation too, please!

I don't know if I said anything that is of any value to you, but I wanted to respond because I know the awful, awful place you are in too well.  It is painful, it is lonely and it absolutely sucks. And I am so sorry that you and your family are going through this.

  MM

Hi Please,

Echoing what FaithSpring said, your posts are so honest and reflect feelings that so many of us hold deeply but often don't readily admit. Thank you.

MM's suggestion is a good one. If you can make small steps towards setting boundaries that will help your mental health and then sticking to them best you can, things over time will feel a little least bleak. I've found that anticipating reactions and explaining the consequences before they happen helps. It is so draining and awful but it shows the kids that you'll follow through. An example is MM suggestion that if she can't be pleasant at home she isn't welcome there.

Another example could be when you go to work out.you can tell her your time is as valuable as hers, and if she bothers you while you're working out, then you won't be able to help her with X. Just a thought.

It's hardest at first when setting new boundaries because the kids will push harder to try to get you to break. But if you are able to be pretty consi, it DOES get better.

It also will be modeling healthy boundaries to her which will help her learn over time. People with BPD generally have such a poorly defined sense of self that they see no separation between themselves and others. This can lead them into relationships with narcissists and abusers because they are unable to set any personal boundaries.

DBT should be teaching her skills to regulate her emotions. It sounds like either they aren't working on it or your daughter isn't taking it seriously. You can tell her (over text if that's easiest) that from now on when she does or says X, you will respond by removing yourself so that you both can calm down (I think you said you do that in the moment which is awesome but reminding her when she's calm or at least not at 100% can help).

My daughter and I had a code word for when one of us was too upset to talk rationally. Not having to explain and just having one word we could utter helped things from escalating.

I hope some of that is useful. You are a strong woman, you're reserves are just totally depleted. You can start building up those reserves again, focus on your needs. And let us know how we can help.

MomMae and Hyacinth bucket,
I do think the texting may work. When I text her she does not come back and call me or complain about the text. I will do that I really will. I am scared to give the ultimatum that if she is not pleasant then she is not welcome. That would throw her into a tail spin and talk I mean yell about suicide.

Thank you all, getting through one minute  at a time
XX

FaithSpring,
I am so sorry about what you are going through. The cancer and your D. I hope you are healed and healthy.
As for the cat Wow! I have three and they are  my "lovinglings". They give me comfort and love and they know when I need them. Too precious.
you are right when you say that if she was a stranger that you just me, you would not like her. I feel that too.
I never dreamt about who my D would be, just wanted her to be happy and safe. No expectation for her job etc... .
But she really is not who I thought her to be at all. I never know if she is lying or not and now I just pretend it is all a lie coming out of her mouth.
If I believe her I am scared I will lose my guard to protect myself and leave me more vulnerable.

XXX

Yeah maybe you can start small and work up to setting bigger boundaries.

If you haven't already I would highly recommend reading about FOG (fear obligation and guilt); the suicide threat is far and away the hardest to deal with. It invokes all three. It's just terrible. 

What do you say/do when she has threatened suicide in the past?

Hyacinth bucket,

It is such a good question: "What do you say/do when she has threatened suicide in the past?"
Weird but I really don't recall exactly what I say- it draws a blank right now . I know I motion to her that I love her and say that I don't want that. Then she says "that we need to treat her better- I just want to be loved" I tell her I love her but it never feels resolved, it feels that the boil went to a simmer and will come back for sure. I have begged her not to say that or consider that. I feel unfortunately,  that gave/gives her power over me and that is a horrible place for me given my issues in childhood. I become the little traumatized girl. It is such a dark place. She can yell that " I can't stand this place, I only come back as I have no one"Then she leaves if emotionally distraught.

I am usually always in control and had a great memory, but these "events" with D really affect me emotionally and I think I detach from the moment. It is the stress that makes me forget. I was never like that. Now at the grocery store with a list I still forget what I need to buy! Even with the kids at dinner time, one may say something to her I don't hear it   ( and I SIT right next to her- maybe that is a defence mechanism to protect me?) and then D is upset that I did not stop the other kid from saying something mean to her and that I did not catch it and "validate"(I HATE THAT WORD)

I apologise to those who utilise this word for "good" but it has been the tool D uses to hurt us over and over again. So that is why I feel the way I do . It is a trigger for me to get angry upset and feel helpless.
 .
I'm feeling better about the texting boundaries.I have been thinking it over all day. I have asked a friend of mine, that d really likes ,to go out for tea, just the three of us. My friend has yet to respond, but the goal is to go out for tea. I will text my D about that and so long as it does not interfere with studies ( it is exam time next week) we will go out and that I expect, that when she is at home for the weekend, our time should be pleasant. If not, and I feel that there will be significant conflict, that it may be best to back to university... . 

What do you think?

I hope  you are OK Hyacinth bucket. I have read your recent posts and feel for you. I really am relying on all of you with more experience and distance from where I am now for guidance and sorry if I cannot give back properly to you at this moment in time.
XXX

Hi Please,

First your question- that sounds like a great plan to me.

I found myself trying to protect my daughter from my own feelings for fear of her response and her inability to handle it. I try to never draw a line between her actions and how I feel. But I've found that the more I tell her about my mental state, the more compassionate she's become toward me to the point where now she actually asks how I'm doing. My long point being, if you can tell her you've been feeling mentally unwell lately and can't handle the stress of conflict with someone you love so much, that might help soothe the sting of being told she has to go back to university. My daughter always thought she was the only person on the planet with those emotions.  I would try to say things like "I know you understand how that feels, it's so terrible." If she asks why you're feeling unwell you can say you're working on figuring it out.

Re: you feeling like a traumatized little girl : my husband has diagnosed PTSD from his very traumatic/abusive childhood. Our daughter has been the worst trigger for him. He was pretty much shut down and locked in his office for the better part of a year. So I really understand what you're going through. You're right, it does give her power over you and that's one of the reasons she uses it. My therapist has been exceptional at helping me deal with this type of thing as she tells me what a good DBT therapist would do in the same situation. It helps me to approach it clinically. If my daughter threatens suicide, my first response is "you must be feeling terrible to jump to that option, we'd better call 911." That will almost always get her to back down and if not, she goes to the hospital and she's safe.  I've also told her things like, "that would make me so sad, I love you more than anything. I hope you don't make that decision. " So that it's clear to her that she is making a conscious choice.  But the 911 call was what my therapist recommended and it has been great. I know there are a couple of parents on here whose kids like going to the emergency room but since your daughter is at University I'm guessing that would dissuade her.

I so understand what you mean about validate. It made me furious for a long time. My therapist has been really helpful in stressing NEVER VALIDATE THE INVALID. My daughter says things that are insane and I would never agree with them, so I was like, what the heck am I supposed to validate? If you can't say anything else, my go to is "you sound so upset/sad/frustrated/whatever  right now." And that's it!

Lastly I am so happy that some of my hell can be helpful to someone else. It is actually helping me heal a lot so thank you for letting me be here for you.

Hi there,
I have texted D today and to summarise I said that I have reflected on the weekends and that there has been a lot of conflict. This conflict is affecting my health. I do love to spend time with her AND (not "but" we need to try to make it pleasant. If there is conflict, then we need to find a strategy so that we know how to handle it. Also if there is conflict, then I may need to remove myself from the situation and that I ask her to be respectful of my boundaries etc... .
 I explained that on weekends, I have my own responsibilities too and part of the weekend I would like to make sure there is time for me and self care and that I knew she understood that.
I said that I would like to take her out to tea with my friend and the two of us on Saturday.
Well she has NOT responded. She usually responds with "OK " and that is all She has never ignored my texts before?. Now I worry that she is hurting herself, but she does see her DBT T, today this afternoon ,and may discuss with him. I had her dad call her and she did not pick up.
The DBT and her have a code that lets him know if she is in danger -she will text him 911 if she is suicidal and I guess there are other codes too for other things such a phone support...

So I hope she is OK I cannot imagine that texting what I did was "mean" or something to hurt herself over, but with BPD I have never ever known what  to do or say. This is the first time I have been firm albeit by text. I hope it takes the emotions out of it.

I did feel good putting into words in a non emotional way how I feel and not that she is "bad"
crossing fingers and toes that all is OK with her.
Thanks for your advice, it makes sense.

Wow, please, I think what you wrote was great - spot on! It was pleasant, non-judgemental and kind.  Maybe dd was caught off guard by this change and is simply mulling it over... .  Possibly looking for something to be upset about, but honestly, I don't know what that could be... .

I understand how difficult it is waiting for that response back... .The more time that goes by, the more worried you become.  Try to resist the urge to text her again, if you can. (I know this is hard, if not impossible at times.  Been there, done that, and also failed at doing that!) Give her time, if you can.  Showing that you are unsure of yourself and desperate can be an opening for things to continue status quo... .I know, have been desperate many a time... .(so I understand if you have to contact again, for your own sanity... .no judgement here!)

It sounds like she has some good strategies in place with her DBT therapist if she needs help... .That is great and is hopefully of some comfort to you, please. 

Thinking of you, so hoping for a positive response your dd. 

MM

+1, amazing job!

I agree, she was probably caught off guard. This is also good because she does have coping strategies in place that do not involve you, she needs to rely on those more! Agreed with MM, so hard to wait and see what she responds with. But I think (hope) that if she were really upset you would have heard about it already.

This is such a positive step!   hoping the best for you for this weekend. And what a good day to do it on, the day she sees her DBT T.

Thank you MM and HB,
I have not texted her again. And I was glad she has an appointment with her DBT T today. Yes likely caught her off guard.
My H says she would not harm herself and they have good relationship most of the time. We are going to Europe in the summer and she is really looking forward to it, so I hope she won't hurt herself.
The most she has ever done was to take pills (not a lethal dose of sedatives) and keep them in mouth, then I freaked out and called 911 and she spit them out anyway.

Thanks for your support and guidance. It is a bit sad what we have to go through and learn and then teach each other. So I am grateful for your experiences as they help me... .
 

It is sad, but also, so wonderful that the internet has given us all opportunities to connect in this manner. I feel like it makes some of the hellishness feel less pointless, if it can help someone else.

 

She texted back and just said OK to go out for tea. But she was going to study for exams so i gave her option of changing the date (I still need to see my friend for me) but she said NO it was fine... .
Oh man now I need to find a tea house (haha)


HB you are right I am grateful for the technology that helps us so much.
Thanks for your support, making it one day at a time but only with your help.
 

That is great news, please! Your dd has responded well - yay!  Baby steps, that's what it is all about!  |iiii  hugs, MM 

Thank you MomMae,
It was your push and idea of what to say that made me do it. I really could not put the words together. You did that for me. She did not respond to my "expectations" or boundaries, but this is a good start.

I am appreciative of your guidance, kindness and caring
Hope you are well!
xxx

 :)  How are you today, please?

HI MomMae,
Thanks for asking. I am ok really. D has not responded to my "boundaries" text but said she would go out for high tea with me and my friend.
She did yell at her dad yesterday after my text. He was just having a conversation and telling her about her pet hamster,who with us right now. Then she freaked out about him not asking her how she was doing. Well if you ask her how she is she says " I am always mad it is never a good day. I wake up mad." SO why would we ask her?

So I guess he has to set boundaries for her too and my text does not apply to her dad  :) . Too bad! I still have not been sleeping and saw my doctor today to get a small dose of antidepressant with sleepy side effects. So cannot wait to try that! I have not slept well I think in over 5 years.

It feels a bit wobbly at this time not knowing what tomorrow will bring with her moods as I expect her to be home tomorrow for the weekend... .

Getting through one minute at a time.
 

Yes, you are right, your husband will need to establish his own boundaries with your DD. Are you and your husband able to talk effectively about what is going on with your daughter, are you on the same page?

I'm glad to hear that you went to the doctor today! I hope that the medication works for you and that it helps you sleep.  I understand what you mean about not sleeping well in years... .I can't really remember what a good night's sleep feels like anymore!

I hope tomorrow goes well when your daughter comes home.  Try to avoid doing anything out of FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt) and try responding with SET if you can.  It feels weird and unnatural at first, but it will help you will feel better because it kind of forces you to stay calm and rational and hopefully it will help diffuse any potential situations.  Stick with your boundaries, you're doing great!

Like you said, one minute at a time, it's all any of us can do ... .baby steps... .

Thinking of you   

So just an update.
D not responding to a text I sent this afternoon. I just asked how she was and that we are going to pick up my friend tomorrow to go for high tea.
Well no response... .
My H says not to text back and I won't. I think she is trying to punish me.

I actually am not too upset. Just want her safe. I am a bit relaxed. I guess I think I should feel guilty and feel badly that I don't really feel guilty or maybe I do?

 :)

Hi please,

You don't have anything to feel guilty about, so I am glad (hope) that you don't (or maybe don't!) feel guilty.  That is all part of FOG (you can search it at the top of this page, I don't know how to put a link).  Not to do things out of fear, obligation, or guilt. 

That is great that you and your husband are talking about this and deciding what to do together.  I agree that it would be best to try to hold off texting back.  (but if you can't, I get it.  Like I said previously, I have been there and know that sometimes it is just overpowering to need to check... .it is so, so hard)

I think that maybe you are feeling pretty good about things because you have taken some of your control back by setting reasonable boundaries.  Very reasonable boundaries.  |iiii 

Thinking of you, please.  Keep us posted.

How are things going with you, please?  Is your daughter home this weekend?  Hope you are well, MM
 

Hi MomMae,
thanks for checking up on me. D home after two weeks. It has been so peaceful and normal.She tells me today that the text I sent her two weeks ago made her upset that I did not discuss in person.
I told her that I did it that way so that WE would NOT fight and that the text was less emotional
She said it upset her a lot and that she "took it out on herself"? I don't know what that means.

We she is home just for the night and has another exam the end of the week. I am dreading her being home on and off over the summer... .

Any words of advice.
And could someone coach me on what to say when she says "You are mad at me, I know it." I don't know what to say to her. I freeze up with her and then I don't say the right things. Please give me some tips just to stop the fighting.

Thanks
XXX

please

If you've not found it here is a link to the FOG article, a discussion follows at the end. Emmotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)
 (https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog)

 :)

Hi please nice to hear from you! 


I know what you mean... .I freeze up to sometimes too!  All the good things I think of ahead of time are, *poof*, gone.  Could you say something to her like ":)o you think there is something that I would be mad at you about?"  That way she has to reflect back on her own behaviour. Just a thought... . 

  MM

Thank you MomMae,
I think that would be helpful.

Have a good day.
 :)