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Yesterday I found out that my uBPD ex kissed another girl at a party during our relationship. This was 10 months ago, when things were still going very well between us and I remember that exact night. He was so sweet, messaging me when he got home, saying he loved me and things like that. They even became friends on Facebook and talked on there for a while after that party.

I am so devastated. I really thought that he had been true to me during our relationship. That he hadn't cheated. Now I don't know what to believe anymore. Has everything been a lie? What have I done to deserve this? I just don't understand. This was like 4 months before our first break up, everything was clear skies back then. We went on holiday for 3 weeks etc. How could he do this to me? He knows how insecure I am. He knows how this will break me down. How did he think that he could get away with this? Should I confront him?

I really don't know how to cope. I feel so lost in myself, detached.

Blooming,
You must feel terrible - I understand that.
I  can't really give much advise. I  know your story.

That seems a typical BPD  behaviour.

I met my BPD friend a year ago. She had a strange behaviour and got emotional and very close to me.  We went to another place that night because she wanted to stay with me.
Not too long after we got there she started kissing a stranger for two hours. I  gave her a lift home and she started crying when I wanted to drop her off at home.
She told that her boyfriend of 17 years was at home, they live together.

I saw her again four weeks later. Almost same behaviour. On the way home she told me she could leave her bf with no problem.
A minute later she said to have PD and identity problems. Another minute later she said she loves her boyfriend.

I want to let you know that we were not intimate. That friendship was terrible, last week I changed my phone number and yesterday I sent her a goodbye letter.

I can't take her behaviour anymore. Sometimes it's better to find an end to find again who you are.

All my best wishes to you.

Why did he cheat on you? because he could.

Trust me, you will become bewildered trying to make sense of any of it.

The worst thing I did was this, and to accept the relationship to continue after I was cheated on. I wish I would have just walked out there and then, not only for the sake of healthy self esteem but to prevent the further chaos that intensified. (what do you think it will show him if you accept to stay after what he has done - crossed that line)?

The reason I let things go on is simply because I was so infactuated up to that point I just never expected it to happen, it was heart wrenching after being built up emotionally the way it had happened. Also that the cheating itself was not made entirely revealed and was denied but was clearly obvious.

Should you confront him? Only to tell him to get out your life and never contact you again, if you want to suffer the least going forward from this.

Yet dont also expect this to be as easy as it sounds. Sorry you are going through this, but whilst your disorientated by it all its important to think about your own standards and values and whether you feel it is right to accept this. Your hurt now but it can get worse, think of where you are now as damage-limitation time.

Good luck whatever you decide.

devastating news  . how did you hear about it?

Blooming,

Your question of confronting him with this doesn't make much sense, as you should not expect a reliable answer if an answer at all.

my friend told me this: "I've never been intimate with anyone other than my bf".
"When I drink too much, I tend to kiss"

You should also expect, that this woman was not the only one he kissed while in a rs with you.

In those cases you can decide to life in hell with such a person, or you decide to live a good life without him and find the love with someone healthy.

Your story did convince me that my recent decisions were right and necessary for my own well being.

All the best for you

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your responses. I confronted him with it, but he denied it. Unfortunately. He said that he had just talked to a few girls and that one of them had added him ot facebook, but that he absolutely hadn't kissed anyone or stayed in contact with them afterwards. I saw he deleted the girl from his facebook friends as soon as I had asked him about what I've heard. I decided to not talk about it further with him or to say that I didn't believe him, because it would only have escalated and turned into a huge fight in which he would have said things that would have really hurt me. It sucks that he denies it though. And that he now thinks that I believe him.

I heard it at a dinner party of a friend, a girl who was there knew the story and told it to me.

I don't want to think about whether he has done this multiple times or not. This is already so very hard for me to live and cope with it. It feels like our whole relationship has been a lie. Does anyone know if BPD's can see cheating as something outside of the relationship? That he still loved me and loved our relationship and that he could see it as two separate things not threatening eachother? I just can't live with the fact that all of what we had didn't mean as much to him as I thought it did. I thought what we had was special, he has told me as much. But now I'm doubting everything and am very scared to find out more of these stories.

Hi,

in response to your scenario that he could "see your relationship as two seperate things not threatening each other".

No.

The Cheating on you was a deliberate act.
As is the lying about it.

There is nothing peculiar or different because he has a personality disorder, BPD or otherwise that changes this.

Ouch. That hurts. Only makes me feel worse.

How could he do that to me if everything was going so great between us?

So what do you advice to do?

this is all third party stuff.

a friend told you the story.
he denies it.

theres no way to really know, but you believe it, and it hurts.

assuming he did it, we cant really know his reasoning or what was going on in his head. do i think it means your relationship wasnt special or that he didnt love you? no.


i dont think theres anything to be done. i know how maddening and upsetting it is. sometime after my relationship ended, i realized my ex had cheated, and probably several times. this is not a wound that he can soothe.

blooming, i think that you were strong to walk away, as much as it hurt, with your head held high. i encourage you to do the same here. nurse your wounds, lean on us here. it does get better.

Hi Just to make it clearer as once removed mentioned, it is 3rd party information you have got, im basing my answer on the basis you have decided to fully believe that what your friend said is the truth. that he cheated and has therefore lied about it too.

the opportunity was there, he wanted to do it, it filled his need at the time.

your instincts I think you need to listen to, i agree that there would be little purpose in confronting him about it, if he has cheated as you believe he has then it would cause him to have to confront the shame about it, and now in addition, of having to lie. This just doesnt work, it is reopening a core wound (that of shame) and this is something someone with BPD cant emotionally handle.

You already have this instinctual awareness to not even go through additional pain by having to confront him. but is sticking your head in the sand and letting it pass going to help things? Thats what i did and it just led to a prolonging of hurt on top of more future pain layered on top.

You feel hurt about it, rightfully so, and he has caused these feelings. but let it be a way to take action and not submerge it.

everyone close to me told me to leave her, but I was so taken in by the same honeymoon times, where I felt so amazing, that I just couldnt accept their advice, understandable but it meant me ignoring reason and in some ways, starting to go down the same route of disorganised pathology way of thinking of hers! and thats just not healthy.  

I know how difficult it is and how upsetting it is but you wont change this person. (im assuming he has BPD  sorry but uncertain what uBPD means).

Hi

I don't believe a third party.  It's heresay.  Could something else have happened you don't know about. Yes.  No.  We will never know what happens, I am more interested in what has me be suspicious.  That right there is a relationship killer.

There is no end to the horrible thinking, it takes on a life of its own.  I will never know about a lot of things, good and bad.  When i dwell on it, I become ill.

He said he didn't do it, he could have definitely told you that he did it, if that was true.  What does he have to gain now, by withholding the truth.
You have asked him, he told you, that should be the end of it.  Everything else is crazy making.

That is my opinion.  I could be wrong.

Hang in there,

juju

Hi Cromwell!

I'm not sure if it's clear to you, but I have already left him. About one and a half week ago I ended it again after almost 5 months of on and off again and he ending it all the times except this time, because he just couldn't be in a relationship and couldn't handle the stress it caused him (or something like that).

So I have already walked away from it and I will not forgive him this. To me this is the last drop. He can't make this right.

I just don't know if I should let him now live with the idea that I believe him and that he got away with it again. That he talked his way out of it. I don't know if I should do that, or that I should tell him that I don't think I believe him because the person who told me heard it from the girl he kissed directly and I don't think there's a reason for her to lie about it, because she doesn't know either of us. I just don't understand how he could lie about this. And I hate myself for accepting his lies in that conversation we had on WhatsApp today and letting him believe that he could fool me that easily.

It's not really a third party though, because she heard it directly from the girl who kissed him. And after I confronted him about it he deleted the girl from his friends on facebook straight away. That doesn't sound like someone who spoke the truth would do.

Well, the girl who told me heard it from her sister who heard it from the girl who kissed him. So it's a pretty direct source. I just don't see a reason why this girl would lie about it. And after I told him he deleted the girl from facebook straight away, so that's pretty suspicious I think.

I just hate it that he won't tell me the truth. That's the least I deserve right?

And it doesn't really feel like I held my head high during this conversation, because I didn't question his answers and just went with him saying that it wasn't true. Even though I'm almost certain he's lying here.

I don't know if I should send him a message saying that my source had it directly from the girl he kissed and that I don't see how she would lie. And that he has really hurt me with this and that I will not be able to forgive him this.

Hi Blooming

I think the biggest issue here is the feeling of being lied to, and that he wont admit it and has the impression that you have been fooled. All I can say is that in these situations it helps just to lose the ego a bit and put this behind you like youve done and forget about whatever it is that he is thinking. You could have full CCTV coverage, 20 independent witnesses and more and all it would do is force him into a situation of having to confront shame. This might be worthwhile doing with people who can at least emotionally handle that, but with his condition it is the worst thing to do. When I confronted my ex by questioning her about the circumstances of the night I believed she cheated on me, the story she gave was so outlandish that no-one would ever believe it, but she stuck to it steadfast, even when I pointed out clear contradictions with what she was saying. You cant use logic, and I just gave up because I was tired of hearing lies and didnt also want to put her in a position of having to continously lie. Its part of their defence mechanism a natural reflex learned from childhood, habitual and ingrained.

The problem you have here is that you dont have 100% proof, just like I never, and as long as you arent literally standing there watching him do it, this is what they know and will use. But just because you dont have 100% proof, just like our court system doesnt require 100% proof to convict someone, you have found him guilty to the point where the trust in the relationship isnt there, so he can protest his innocence all he wants, you dont trust the guy and as someone said earlier, thats really the main thing I would shift the focus on as the reason for drawing a line under this.

My ex got just as much a buzz out of the lying as a way of control than the cheating. You can imagine it is part of the role play of when they lied to their parents and got away with it because they were brought up in an environment where the truce meant having to face being shamed to such a disproportionate degree than it should have been. At least this was the case with my ex and explained a lot to me why she was such a pathological liar. He knows himself what he has done by you splitting up with him, let him carry the shame of being caught out and that he couldnt keep you longer hooked in. Thats the bit that I failed at and it just led to an escalation of more antics. Im glad you have cut your loss.  |iiii

Yes I think you're right, that is the biggest issue. It's very hard for me to live with that. And of course the fact that he did it in the first place and that apparently I didn't mean as much to him as I thought I did. That he doesn't care about hurting me that way. That he doesn't even respect me enough to tell me the truth.


I could contact the girl he cheated on me with and ask her for screenshots of the conversation they had afterwards on facebook. Do you think that would be enough evidence for him to admit his lies? Or is it still a hopeless case?


But I split up with him before I knew this, so I'm not sure if he knows what he has done. Maybe he thinks he still has me in his power (because I was the one who initiated the splitting up conversation, but he pretty much convinced me to take the step to actually walk away from me, told me to put myself first and things like that). I just feel so weak letting him getting away with this. And I'm pretty sure he now thinks that too. That I'm some weak, stupid girl who he can just tell anything and I would believe him, who he can just fool so easily.

Blooming,
What could you gain when collecting real evidence?

You're seperated. I think it would be best to focus on your health. BPD never change without good and long treatment.

Blooming, Does it actually matter what he may think?
Getting him out your life was the best possible thing you could do to prevent further problems. I wish I would have done the same as you. well done and dont beat yourself up about it, over time you wont feel this way, its just very raw when you get shocked and being made to feel like a fool. your not, be glad you dealt with it strongly and watch out for him trying to recycle you back, its always a strong possibility when things dont work out, they will chance their luck and you will be beguiled all over again and it is hard to resist.  |iiii

Hello there blooming,

I'm really sorry about the latest turn of events. It must hurt so much to know this person that you once loved and trusted has broken that which you've entrusted him with. I sense a terrible heartache from this latest incident.

It does seem seem that your ex-partner is unable to come clean regarding this issue and has resorted to sweeping the issue under the table which adds to the somewhat suspicious set of circumstances. These events that have transpired must have really pulled the heart strings of your heart and caused you further confusion and turmoil.

For certain, he has not made an attempt to clarify the matter with you, which you so seek after and he has unfortunately not dealt with the matter transparently. As you have clearly stated that this is value that he has violated and am really upset and angry.

It really sucks to be in this spot and to feel this way - That he has broken the trust which you so gave to him so wholeheartedly at the start of the relationship. From what observe at present, this is a storm in the making. I understand how you feel about wanting to confront and yank the truth out of him, but dear blooming. I don't know if he'd tell you the truth having seen the attempts of "covering up".

I do strongly believe that you deserve to know the truth of what happened. But dear blooming, even if he did give you an answer, it might not necessarily be "truthful". If he is dysregulated, there would be attempts to gaslight and fact twisting in an attempt to justify his version of reality. Perhaps all you might want is for him to apologise and own up, dear blooming. But, it might really be something he is incapable of, not especially when he is emotionally dysregulated. If his motivations are indeed driven by shame, it will just cause you further frustration and hurt. 

Here is a   during this difficult time. Hang in there blooming.

Spero.

Well with real evidence he would have to admit his lie and his deed.

To my limited experience (12 months) with a really bad BPD woman, I've not seen that they admit anything. They'ld rather go NC or ST or disappear before they admit a fault or wrong behaviour.
I wouldn't count on expecting they admit anything at all.

Hi blooming,

The question you have to ask yourself (and indeed already have) is whether this man is somebody who is going to make you happy. The fact that you have walked away seems to suggest that you have already come to the conclusion that he isn't. I think trust is a complex and deep rooted issue. Many of us on these boards have issues around trust, I most certainly do myself, and I cannot be with somebody who is constantly pricking my own abandonment issues. The best thing you can do is look after yourself emotionally. Emotional sobriety and peace of mind are what contribute to your happiness and sense of well being.

Do not waste time and energy in trying to figure out a conundrum that most likely will never get resolved. Concentrate on yourself and your own strengths and well being. Be good to yourself and protect yourself from the emotional morass that getting involved with somebody who is going to take you into emotional hell will bring. The actions you take and the choices you make are what lead to emotional calm and stability. Please do not waste your time on an emotional conundrum will will only bring you pain. Look to yourself. You had the strength to walk away. I would advise drawing a line under this one and concentrating on the things in life that bring you joy. I say this with as much empathy as I can muster as I have just emerged from a long and disastrous entanglement.

RF

To me it does matter. I gave him everything, all my love, all my trust. And he repays me with this? All the things he did before this I could handle. All the hurtful things he said. But this is just too much. Especially the fact that he denies it. I think that hurts the most. Apparently he just doesn't respect or love me at all. I just can't stop thinking about what we had meant to him? If he could do something like this, apparently it meant a lot less to him than to me. And I can't stop thinking about if he did this more often or not.

When we broke up two weeks ago he almost had to convince me to actually walk away. I did initiatie the conversation, but I still hoped that he would convince me to stay (we broke up because he didn't want to commit and didn't want a relationship, he didn't want to make any compromises, only wanted me when he needed me, I just couldn't handle that situation, it made me feel very insecure). He didn't though, he said I had to put myself first and that he didn't want to convince me because he didn't want to hurt me. I now regret giving him that much credit. I should've just walked away with my head held high.

Thank you for your sweet message Spero, it hurts very much indeed. I really don't know what to do myself.


I am very upset, not really angry though, just very hurt and disappointed and confused. I don't know how he could be this disrespectful and that I didn't notice anything and that he can't even show me the respect to come clean. Apparently he thinks so low of me and really doesn't care about me anymore. If he ever even cared. I just can't understand him. How could he lie so easily about this? He almost made me believe him because it sounded so convincing, what he said. "Oh yes it must be awful to hear something like this!" "I would go crazy too if I heard something like that" "I absolutely didn't kiss anyone/had contact with them via facebook" "I'm sorry you had to hear this" "If I can do anything for you, just ask".


Do you think even when I confront him with screenshots of their conversation, he'd still do that?

Hi there blooming,

I'm sorry that you're hurting so much right now. That you've felt totally disrespected, unappreciated and mutual trust as been eroded. This must be so unjust toward you and that you're really upset at his behaviour. This relationship which meant so much to you is unfortunately being convey as insignificant from his POV.

Its okay to feel upset and perhaps even angry, and rightly so anyone's reaction after being treated this way is normal. Blooming, you've bore your heart out and this is hurting so much. I won't say it'll be okay, but i'll say blooming we're here for you as a community no matter how tough and painful things are. But perhaps blooming, you're also upset with yourself for allowing yourself to go through this, and to be "taken advantage off". My heart goes out to you  .

Take heart blooming, we're here with you.

Spero

It's okay to not know what to do you. I can see that your circumstance has many things compounding and this new "episode" has suddenly escalated the situation, or rather the "drama".


I'm dont yet have a very clear picture of the context and situation since, as you've mentioned you did hear it from a 3rd party. Ie friend of a friend. That being said, i don't think there is a need for this lady for be lying about it. Unless she has her own set of issues. What i do suspect at this point is, he is probably "detached" from his emotions right now, which would therefore explain his calm demeanor.

It is also unfortunate and likely that he has for some time now, gradually objectified you. He therefore sees you not so much as a person but... .perhaps as an object. When an individual with BPD objectifies his/her favorite person it will hurt the "object other" very deeply. He would be able to cast aside your feelings and also be able to justify his treatment of you.


This is somewhat a risk actually, he may either totally dismiss you has he has done so. He seems to be in denial so far so, i'd suppose he is inclining more toward detachment when dysregulated than extreme emotional expression. Then again, if he has maintained his position of dismissing your claims, i do think he'll continue to do so.

What i'm more concerned now is, blooming, that if you continue to engage you'll be hurting yourself more because the response you get out of him unfortunately may not be how you'd might imagine it mentally. The probability of him owning up, and taking responsibility after reading what you've posted is unfortunately really really slim. You might get a lie on top of another lie - he'll attempt to construct another story because in his mind, the guy kissing the girl isn't him.

He may have convinced himself so and is disconnected from reality. That level of disassociation also probably means he displays certain traits of disassociative identity disorder. I've experienced that personally with my uBPDexGF. Just my thoughts on the situation.

Spero.

I really hope that he doesn't view our relationship as insignificant, as you mentioned. I think maybe he can see this as a separate thing? It's just almost impossible for me to believe that all the love and attention he gave me was fake.

I am definitely also upset with myself. And I am in doubt so much about how to continue. If I should let him walk away with this thinking I believe him or that I should tell him I don't believe him but risk his hurtful comments.

I still can't really believe this happened. Sure, he has said hurtful things to me, he has recycled me multiple times, he has been mean and he gave up on us way too easily. I even know he downloaded a dating app and talked really flirty to a girl on there and exchanged numbers, during our relationship. But this is just a whole new level. All the things he did before he owned up to, he apologised for. This he lies about. Even though it's by far the worst thing he's done. I really don't know how to cope with that. It changes my whole perception of him. I just can't believe he'd be like that.

I realised that contacting the girl who he cheated on me with would also be to convince myself of that he is actually lying, because there's still a part of me who wants to believe him.

And I'm certain that sooner or later he'll contact me again and he'll probably get angry if I say I don't want any contact anymore and then I need to be ready to say my piece and make a strong case against him on why I don't believe him, because otherwise he'll just get angry with me for not believing him and say very hurtful things.

Its interesting how you posted the chronological order of his response. It reminds me so much of how my ex would lie to me. When someone is confronted by such a big accusation such as cheating and they would be innocent and know nothing about what you are talking about, does it seem likely that they would calmly respond first of all with "oh yes, it must be awful to hear something like this!" which when you look at it, the first part "oh yes!" is almost a subtle, self soothing admission to release the tension, followed by redirecting the crux of the question back to you and how you might feel.

When I confronted my ex about the cheating she never directly denied it but had very similar responses.

Lets face it, if my ex would have confronted me about cheating on her and it was totally false I would be absolutely shocked, deny it fully straight away and demand to know exactly what led her to come to that idea. From the response youve given of him there doesnt appear any "shock" about what you have told him, just redirection with the denial sandwhiched in the middle and then another diversion as a way of concluding it in a way that he wants to control that the relationship will just proceed and he is there for you.

From your last point I have so much empathy with what you say in "theres still a part of me that wants to believe"

and thats what I ended up doing, lying to my own belief because it was at that moment in time, the easy way out and a way to deflect the pain away. Putting myself into that denial and carrying on was the worst thing to do as it is lying to yourself and sets a precedent to continue that way, as I did. Try not to focus so much on wether he gets angry or not for not believing him, this isn't anymore about solving the crime and proving innocence, it is that he has made you feel so devasted, hurt and suspicious. Is there really anything you think he can do, beyond apologising (which he has not done) that can make these feelings go away, or will they likely just fester away at you in the long term?

i should have concentrated fully on the hurt that my ex caused me and that I didnt want to accept that anymore than playing along with the make-believe to myself that it was comforting that she denied it, gave me more sex and good times right after the event to keep me hooked in and put a sticky plaster on what was a deep flesh wound she created.

blooming im so sorry what you're going through, It really is hard to believe someone you love so much can betray you!
I honestly don't think it'll be good for you to confront your ex about this, no good is going to come out of it.

I have been in a relationship with my exfiance for 6 years, we were just about to get married and she broke it off and completely shut me out, I did some digging and found out that she was cheating on me. Honestly I wish I could sit her down and just talk to her, but no good is going to come out of it. Trust me you are the one who is saved from future pain that youre not with this person anymore. I know this is hard to hear, as you might still feel something for this person. But, you will have more stress if you deal with your ex again.

Wish you all the best in your healing. Time heals all wounds. Trust me on this!

Yes, you're quite right, I would have never responded that calmly if I was falsely accused of something like that.


No I don't think this feeling can go away ever again. But what would you suggest? Should I send him a message saying something like "Ex, I am sure this happened. I don't need a response from you, I just want you to know that I know and that I can't believe you did this and that you have hurt me very very much.", or should I try to leave it be? Because I am noticing that it's very hard for me to let go. Or to accept that I won't take anymore action.


Well we're still broken up and haven't talked since I confronted him with this, so I don't think that will be a problem with me. I don't think there's a very big chance that he will try to win me back again.

I keep reading back the conversation, trying to think what he thought when he read my responses. Does he think I fully believe him? Or not? I said things like "Thank you for your quick response, it was quite a blow when I heard it" "Yes, I didn't really know what to do with myself" "It sucks that stories like this are circulating" "I don't think there's anything you can do for me, it just sucked when I heard" (these are translations from my mother language, but they're quite accurate I guess). Do you think, hearing my responses, he thinks I totally believe him or that he has doubts?

Do you mean not confront him again? Because I have already confronted him once and he denied it and he did it so thoroughly that I almost started to believe him so I didn't really respond in the way I wanted to. Now I really regret that because I think he thinks that I believe him and that he got away with it.

Blooming, as everyone here has said, I'm very sorry for this terrible disappointment.

However, I believe in a situation like this, it would be best and less hurtful to you to let him just go. I don know by experience that it sounds easier than it is. yes it will continue to hurt, but keeping emotionally engaged and making more contact will be damaging to you, much more than to him.

For some BPD, perhaps for a majority of all BPD, honesty in usually nothing to expect from them. It is also very hard to try to understand someone ig that person is beeing dishonest.

'I don't think there's a very big chance that he will try to win me back again.'

I think it would be a mistake to wait or hope for any kind of reengagement from him, as the cycle will never end at all.

We're all here for you, and this is a great place to find help, unbderstanding and a good support.

No I definitely don't hope for any reengagement from him, but I am curious to see if he will reengage or not. I guess it would kind of hurt if he doesn't, because I know that with past relationships he tried and tried and tried until his ex pretty much had to block him. He hasn't done that with me yet, which kind of makes me feel less worthy. Same goes for that he cheated on me and now denies it, makes me feel like he doesn't/didn't respect me. It just puts our whole relationship in a different light and that really really sucks. All the happy memories are coloured black now. Because all I can think about that apparently it was fake to him, or that he didn't love me as much as I loved him, or more things like that.

Also, I just don't know what to do if he does contact me again. How do I keep the situation from getting out of hand then? I don't want to be too nice because then he might really think that I believed him. I just wish he knew I don't believe him.

I notice that my head just doesn't want to believe it, that it's putting it away, like it didn't happen or something. Such a big part of me wants to believe what he told me. Because it's just so surreal that he did this, when everything was going perfectly fine, and that I didn't notice a thing.

I only talk from my own experience of having my ex cheat on me and trust me, how it happened all the circumstances combined and how strong my feelings were for her it was decimating for me, beyond what I would have imagined. What made it worse was it was denied. So ive been through that too. Then to carry on holding on to that devastation and bury it away because didnt want to face it, whilst staying with her 2.5 years onward. Its why I think I know how you feel because what you post is like a carbon copy of how I felt.

the more you ruminate the stronger the hurtful imagery stays. the more energy you use to suppress it, the more conflicted you will be. i hope you resolve it early rather than carry it for so long as i did, it will fester away inside, its not going to just disappear, that much I can say for certain.

its not helpful to compare how he behaved in previous r/s, the fact that he isnt trying at the moment could be for many reasons. I could say that it is because he sees you as a stronger person than the previous ones, which is why he hasnt tried, he might know that you know the truth regardless that he cant confront his own shame to admit it to you.

Yes, the denial is the worst of all, I totally agree. It's comforting to know that you know exactly how I feel.


So both ruminating and suppressing the ruminating isn't good? Than what do you advice to do? I just don't know how to resolve it, how I'll ever be able to let this go. Especially because a part of me wants to believe him now, which makes it harder to totally accept this happened, I guess. That's why I'm thinking of contacting the girl he kissed, to find proof for myself that it happened so that I'm 100% sure he's lying. But I don't even know if she'd be open to that. And I still don't know if it's a good idea.


I know it isn't helping, but I just can't let it go. And of course he has tried in the past, since we have recycled 3 times since our first break-up (in the course of 6 months) and all of them were initiated by him, they just all failed because he didn't want to commit/didn't have space in his head for me/felt irritated by me/wasn't feeling well mentally/didn't want the extra pressures that (according to him) come with a relationship etc. I hope he knows I know the truth. I hope he got that from the responses I gave him (that I typed out earlier in a response to you).

What I am also struggling with, is how to respond if and when he ever contacts me again. And I guess I need two scenario's, one for if it happens in a short time span and one for if it happens after quite some time. Do you have any suggestions? I'm scared that if he'll contact me again, he'll have to find out that I don't believe him (because currently I don't want any contact with him, so that's what I'll say and then he'll probably ask why) and get very angry. Even though I now let go of my pride and didn't confront him again, then I'll still have to do it.

 Blooming you trusted this person, now you are left in shock, upset, anger and you are still concerned about how he might feel if you confront him. When I asked you earlier "does it matter what he thinks?", I didnt mean that to come across as blunt or tactless, just because when I read stuff like this, it reminds me of the predicament I was in and when I look at your situation from not being emotionally involved, I think, look at what has happened to this person, she trusted, she was happy but the other has behaved in a way that didnt give a ___ about her.

His actions, although likely to have been impulsive, were deliberate all the same. We can never prove 100%, and that is what he relies on. He may, or may not have felt guilty, even momentarily upset, after the event but he hasnt developed empathy for you or he would not have done it in the first place or would have apologised, which would involve embracing shame, and giving you the option of what to do about it. This leaves him feeling ok, and leaving you in this state.

Instead you are left in this state and struggling to find your self esteem for being made to feel like a fool for trusting and the insult of being lied to. To such an extent that you are entertaining the idea of denial of your intuition to suppress the hurt and leave the opportunity there for a recycle. After all, if you like this person and you havent proven he has cheated, then there is nothing to stop the r/s continuing.

Its why someone else already said, think about the fact that this person has made you feel this way, that there is now a big question mark hanging over his integrity. Dont beat yourself down that you trusted him and now this has been compromised, of course it is going to be a huge disappointment when you had such a high impression of the R/S and now it feels like you have been in an emotional hit and run with him callously driving off in the distance without a care in the world.

He wants to keep you in his phone book for when he wants his needs fulfilled and he is happy to keep you in the fog and disorientated about the truth to ensure you are kept as an option.

 I had reinstalled whattsapp and not being the best at understanding software, there here face came up as one of my contacts. She never deleted or blocked me, even after I initiated complete NC for 3 months. At the start of my R/S I used to chat to her and always wanted to see her, she said once "oh, cromwell, you managed it again, hook line and sinker"

I just saw it as silly talk, but these R/S really are about manipulation and mind games and not true emotional intimacy. Because every time you get close he will push you away for fear of engulfment. So if there is no emotional intimacy, he feels within his right to do what he wants elsewhere whenever he chooses it and doesnt carry the attached guilt.

I could go on forever about it but youve asked what my advice is and I try not to sound blunt or tactless, but you are vulnerable because of the shock of discovering it, as I was, and at the very least if you must speak to him at all, is to say, you need some time to yourself because you feel very shocked by the "rumours" call it that and just cant figure out how this has came out of nowhere.

Personally with the benefit of my own progression, the best thing I could have done was to have just went complete NC, but fully tell myself there is no future with this person due to how they have made me feel, as oppossed to what I could prove or (try to) rationalise, and then stuck to that. But I was weak and looking for any alternative available to deflect the pain, and it made my recovery far worse in the long term. Just so you know, the cheating was devastating, but in the big picture, what was to follow became a nightmare that I could have avoided. I wouldnt want anyone to go through the same, as this may not be the worst you can feel that you are going through now, there is nothing to say that it can "only get better" if you carry on.

 Id hope that at the very least, you tell him if you choose to speak to him that you need time alone to recover from the rumours that have been told about him. This avoids confronting him directly but also tells him that you are considering your needs first and foremost.