BPDFamily.com

Ladies and Gents,
I share my story here in order to do a reality check and not to loose my own sense of sanity. It also helps to read my earlier posts and realize how much pain and anguish I go through monthly and weekly. It helps with weighing pros and cons. Today I celebrate my birthday, happy birthday to me... .not. Every year my uBPDh dysregulates to the point that I’m left in tears and dreading it. This year is no exception. I made up my mind to come and see the family and spend a day with them. We are currently stationed at his  other “home/work” situation. After a long day after work he comes home to a bachelor lifestyle: hockey, movies, food and very little interaction with me. He isn’t interested in his children, nor does he show much interest in me, Other then expecting massages, dinner and sexual pleasures on his own demand. I am growing tired of it, yes, he is still the same man he was when we were home, only now instead of playing hockey and realizing testosterone on ice he is watching it and splitting on me after every game. Instead of seeing his kids in passing throughout the day he completely ignores their existence. Instead of spending weekend quality time with his family he wants to go to church... .all the things he used to do to blend in, every effort he has ever made to mind and be a part of the family is now gone. His heart is definitely isn’t growing fonder from the far.
As our departure mood approached, his mood was dropping proportionally. Snapping, threatening and intimidating increased. Last night we left the other city to come home. I was trying to give him space and validate every time he spoke, but I wasn’t equipped to deal with this latest outburst.
Here is the backdrop story: he never gives me surprises or birthday presents on time. It’s always either before or after. This year, his np decided that he needed to “match” his friend that purchases expensive jewelry for his wife. His friwnd buys it because he can afford it, my uBPDh borrowed money from his business partner and was hoping to sell his stock shares to cover the present. That was a month ago. He never actually got to selling and now he has to repay his business partner. That triggered an overwhelming dysregulation, anger and resentment towards me. No, I wasn’t asking for this gift. Yes, it’s beautiful. No, the consequences outweigh the meaning of the present. I was fine before and I will be fine after without this present. In the car, I was trying to work out the logistics of paying back his partner, he demanded that I withdraw the remaining funds I have in our mutual bank account as an advance to pay back his partner. It’s all I have to cover household bills, and that I all I’m going to get from him. He still has his stock shares, which actually increased in value, yet, now he doesn’t want to sell them.? After a few probing questions he swang the car onto the closest gas station and demanded me to go to the back seat. Or he would move to the back seat. From my training with the T I remembered that he needs to bear the consequences of his actions, not me subjecting myself to his manipulations. So I told him in a set form: I can see that you are angry. Anyone would be upset if they had such a large amount to repay. But the truth it, we don’t speak to each other rudely, nor do we silent treat each other. I get car sick at the back, so I will stay on the front passenger seat”.
He proceeded to climb back and we set there for hood 20 min. When I realized that it was getting late I moved to the drivers seat and drove out home. He was DJaing at the back, putting hard rock masochistic songs, clearly reflecting his inner state. When our daughter called to ask if she can stay home tomorrow since it’s my birthday he started to tell, that she should quit and it will be cheaper for him. Just then a big truck drove past me, I was going slightly over the speed limit, as it was pitch black, and there were zigzags and turns every so often. I didn’t feel comfortable speeding for the concern of our safety. I’ve never previously driven that far in the middle of the night. As soon as he saw the truck something got triggered and he began to yell at my ear, that I’m an animal, that I’m worthless human being and he will “show me a birthday I will never forget. The kinds of insults he was spitting for the next 5 min I don’t even want to mention. In the midst of it all I didn’t realize that my d14 was still on the line when he was yelling. All I did was with both hands sturdy on the wheel and my eyes locked on the road, as calmly as I could I was saying “we don’t insult each other, we don’t raise our voice at each other” while praying inside that he doesn’t smack me on the shoulder or hand as he did in the past (painfully 4-5 times). He then said in a very disturbing voice “do you want me to open the door? Do you want me to jump out? So you will deal with al of the issues alone?” I didn’t expect this, nor did I reply. What could o say at that moment? I could use your insight for the future.
I managed to drive us home safely, and crushed from emotional fear and physical exhaustion. I can no longer deny that I’m being emotionally and psychologically abused. If he would start hitting me from the back I would not be surprised. He smacked me before, the escalation of abuse is only to be expected. I didn’t reply anything other then my boundaries. Frankly, he is an adult who bought a very expensive gift to his wife. At the age of 45 a person needs to know that he will have to make arrangements to pay back. I don’t care for the gift, I would return it to the store if I could, to spare myself with this madness. I’m not sure if validating his anger and frustration was helpful. I could use your advice on how to proceed. We have my friends coming tonight, he will surely throw something else later on

A few comments... .     

Happy Birthday!  I'm glad you are using milestones as measuring points.  What do you want your life to be like a year from now?  It can get better.


So... can you let us know what the present was?  Can you roughly estimate value?

I got the impression there was lots of money floating around... .so I was surprised that he had to borrow money... .

How/why did you get involved in his business finances?  Wouldn't it be better to let him go through the learning process of make decision, experience impact of decision, make decision based on experience next time?  Perhaps he figures out he doesn't like paying back his partner... .and chooses not to do that next time.




 |iiii   |iiii

I'm so happy and proud of you taking this step!  This seems huge.  Did it seem huge to you?

 
So... .a car is not a prison.  I thought as you did for a while that I should focus on driving safely and ignore a dysregulated person.  The problem is they have an audience... and they know it.

Much better to pull over, take the keys and go for walk.  Let them know if they are calm you will return and continue to drive.

For me... .I did it a few times with kids in car.  Left a yelling Mommy in car with wide eyed kids.  Note... .today I would likely send kids out for walk as well.

Luckily... .it's been a couple years since there has been a car issue.


Thoughts?

Dear @formflier- thank you for the birthday wishes! I have some steady live pouring from my friends, it’s a dribble comparing to what I was hoping to get from my uBPDh.
Next year I hope to be employed, and not to be yelled at nor insulted, I hope to have a person by my side who would make me feel special, loved and appreciated. I hope to gain a sense of self awareness, that I’m my own person and need to focus on my well being. I hope to over come separation anxiety and codependency, to see that I really don’t need him, since I’m doing most on my own anyway.

He hot me very expensive jewels, in the amount of condo down payment. Yes, there are hypothetical money floating around, it’s all “paper rich” and can only become actual money should he choose to liquidate it. I get only very little amount monthly, thus keeping me on a tight leash. I had to put my T sessions on pause as I can no longer maintain weekly sessions financially. He is tightening the screws.

I did not get involved in the business finances, it actually has nothing to do with business. He borrowed a larger amount of money for jewelry from his business partner. His business partner’s personal funds. He now has to pay it back, as it’s my birthday, and he gave the the gifts. To repay the amount he borrowed he was supposed to liquidate his stock shares. The stock shares were lower when he borrowed, and he was ready to sell. Now, that he is splitting, he doesn’t want to sell, and consideres it a poor decision on his part.

The driving part was huge for me, thank you for the praise. It took me several circles to come down enough to drive. His choice for music
Was also intimidating tactic, songs about male supremacy, domination, in a manner of “die b&$ch” were distracting and distressing. His threat to jump out was huddling, it’s a new one. I didn’t validate it, just ignored.

OK... let's not split hairs about business and personal finances.

He made a decision... it appears, without your agreement.  Right?

He had a plan to repay.  Right?

He seems to have changed his mind.  Right?

I don't understand where you get involved... that is in anyway healthy.

Let him experience the impact of changing his mind... .do not save him from this

I'm very concerned that you are pausing T.

What can be done to generate cash to restart this?

Why not return or sell the jewels? 

FF

When he was purchasing I knew that we didn’t have the full amount to cover it. It was his decision and full initiative. When I asked him how was he planning to cover it; his reply was “don’t worry about it”, I got it all planned and figured out. I’m not getting involved, he is splitting on me because he doesn’t want to liquidate his assets. If I were to bring the jewels back, we would likely loose 1/3 of the value he paid for them. Even then, it would have to be with his permission. Otherwise I can’t imagine what he might do.
I don’t have any income separate from what he earns and contributes. I’ve been thinking over about getting a job, so I can become financially independent of him. In truth, I’m scared of what the T is telling me, so I’m not 100% commited. She is very blunt and every time we speak of my uBPDh she tells me that I’m psychologically and emotionally abused. She is encouraging me to consider every option, and tells me about negative consequences for my children that observe the abuse. She doesn’t discuss uBPDh in detail, but taking only his behaviour into consideration she believes there is only one way to stop the abuse- to get out. Every time I try to explore techniques about weathering the storm, she appears reluctant and reminds me of the previous incidents I have shared with her. @formflier, I’m not ready to pull the plug on 17 yo that I’ve invested in. I’m not trying to justify my uBPDh behaviour, but he words like “it seems to be that you want to cure your uBPDh, it’s impossible, and frankly crazy idea. Let’s stop going down to rabbit hole with him trying to “find his triggers”, your husband is abuse and the only way to break the cycle is to start planning your exit strategy”. Work on building new friendships, support group, career, hobbies... .anytime I start going in he direction of her suggestion- he rains in the finances, so I can barely squeeze by”

So... .if that is where it is at.  Why not apply for a job... today!  ?

Or give him the choice.  Listen... .all this financial stuff is more than I can bear.  Without stable finances I can count on, I'll have to sort out my own source of income.

Of course... say you are appreciative... .but... .you need to have some control over your life.  Let him decide first if he is willing to "let go".  He may surprise you.

Then... .take steps to take charge of your life.

Listen:  Another big picture thing.  He is splitting on you, because that works for him and you "participate" on some level.  He gets relief of some sort.

If you step away from splitting... .it will stop working for him.

I mean... .he gave up the drivers seat... right?  You stood your ground... he gave up.

That is the normal way it goes.  Non's don't think it will work, they stand up... .and find out differently.


FF

This is my birthday resolution, to see what I’m really made of. I flatter myself being a go getter, I’m resourseful, I can be funny, I have the driving force and energy, I’m also persistent when it comes to reaching a goal, I want to see if I can reach my goal for once. I can keep my school part time, as my kids are 14 and 10. I will have to deligate in terms of logistics. It would not be a solution, more of plugging in the holes. At least I won’t have the dread running through me, that I’m left with no money or means to support myself and the kids. It’s interesting how pwBPD put us in a setuation when you feel as if you have to defend yourself and then ask for complete trust?. Are you serious?

Look at where you are in life?

Starting to make breakthroughs in places where you totally agree you need to, yet what part of your life have you put on hold?

Wouldn't that be the last thing to put on hold? 

Let your money choices follow priorities... right?  Especially when money is tight.

How long since last T appointment?  When is your next appointment scheduled?  If not... .give yourself a present... call today and schedule. 

If you don't know how you will pay for it... .perhaps that will motivate you to take steps and make choices.

FF

I’ve been doing my best to not take it personal and understand that the chaos is inside of him. I’ve managed not to react to any of his insults, my voice was very quiet and composed. The louder he yelled, the more steady my voice was getting. I know what to do in case of the present- if he borrowed it, he has an idea of repaying for it. If he will ask for the present back, I’ll give it to him. What I don’t know is what it a fitting consequence of him behaving this way towards me on every birthday. I’m going to do my best to smile and enjoy the company of my friends and close family, my children. I’m mentally preparing myself that the more fun I will have, the more he will be splitting trying to ruin my birthday. Tomorrow when it will be over, I don’t know if I should be going with him... .we are supposed to take adults only vacation for the weekend. I’ve been looking forward to it for a while, our all inclusive vacation on March break was a disaster. He wasn’t taking to me for a week out of 14 days, when he did he was insulting and belittling me in front of the kids. This get away is also due to celebrating our mutual friend’s birthday. He stopped liking them because they don’t flatter him, praise or worship him, as he wants (npd). They still like him, mostly but seriously call him out on his BPDish behaviour. Thus, he doesn’t want to spend time with them calling them “uninteresting”. This trip I now see is under a threat of not going. If he does go, he will be splitting on me in front of everybody or retreat to the hotel room. What would be the best case in this setuation?
Not go- (he gets what he wants, my friends get disappointed, I miss out on having people who actually like and emotionally support me)
Go with him- he is highly probably will be splitting and acting crazy, yet he still kept the arrangement and I got to see my friends and the ocean
Go, but change his ticket to my daughter ( cons- I will go in debt for good and her ticket, accommodations are paid for anyway, pros- I get to spend time with my daughter and my friends, allow him to bear the consequences of his choice aka choosing not to come with me. He will likely call me and lthreaten this his business isn’t going well and he needs to “cut my rashions”.

I always live under a constant threat of him pulling the plug, it’s been a week since I spoke to her last. I intend to apply for therapy through my university program, my ideal case scenario is to have therapy for me and the kids so we have a chance to heal as a family. My uBPDh has a profound effect not only on myself but also on everyone around. My mom has been crying all day, my dad is dreadful to return home, kids are unusually quiet and frightened. Getting a job will help me to build self esteem, meet other people and get a much needed distraction.

So... .when will you see your therapist again?

Yes... .I'm sticking with this... it concerns me greatly that you are choosing to step away.

FF

We are scheduled for Monday and Thursday next week. I haven’t cancelled the appointment yet. You are correct in your observation, I’m not in tune with what t is preaching. Adding financial hardship is making me question the fruitfulness of these sessions. Her outlook on my family setuation is rather pessimistic, which is counterproductive for me. I understand in be whole “empowering” speech, and taking responsibility for my life is on top of my list. However, did you ever encounter a therapist who is so persistent on “getting it through to me 1)he is psychologically abuse, 2) you can’t stay because abuse doesn’t stop on your accord, it only Escalades. My reasoning with her is that he is ill, and given the. Right help we have good moments. She isn’t seeing it this way, calling it my projection. That’s why this forum is my outlet, the approach here is the same as if he was physically disabled. Or, perhaps it’s the fear of being disillusioned that halts the therapy, if I realize that he is never going to change, then the 17 years I invested are meaningless

Ugg... .black white thinking... .horrid... .get it out! 

It's not meaningless... .it's not what you wanted or hoped.  There is a very very very very very very big difference.

Yet you tend to make decisions on how you "think" about things "in the moment".

If it's meaningless... then why put in effort or care... it's all over... so what I decide doesn't matter... .KABOOM... .

from an outside, it might look like "rescuing defeat from the jaws of victory... "

might... .

Listen... .have a frank conversation with your T about your concerns with the therapeutic relationship... .listen.

Ask her to "reflect back" to you what she is hearing and (more importantly) reflect back to her what you hear her saying.

I "think" she is saying that you have a dim future if YOU don't make changes.  And that even if YOU make changes, the level of dysfunction from your H is pretty high.

Yes... .he is like this.  Yes... .you've also trained him to be this way.

I yell at my wife and she gives me massages... .that's how life works.

You have some justifiable fear of the future, because the only way to see how much better your r/s can get... .is to change for the future. 

I yell at my wife... .I get left alone.  No massages.  That makes me angry... .therefore I will...

I speak to my wife kind... .I get her to be with me and give me massages.  That makes me happy... therefor I will.

You (and I ) both know it won't be a smooth ride.  We both know the current path doesn't work.

And... .truthfully... .perhaps a different T is needed (although I doubt it).

Frank talk with T is needed. 

FF

@Formflier,
I’m puzzled and confused as my uBPDh was acting bazaar last night. We have arrived home the night before for my birthday celebration. He was well informed that people close to us were invited, my foo was there as well. I need your help to unravel a few things and make a decision not out of fear, but something that will be working in a long run.
He came home from work around 5ish, no happy Birthday, no flowers, nada... .I guess with that insane gift he got a month before he decided that being nice is overrated. I greeted him, he saw the hired help that my parents got to help with the catering. Asked me who it was, I explained, he proceeded to go upstairs, said that he doesn’t want to be destrurbed and that he isn’t coming down. When I tried to interject that it’s our mutual friends and that it’s going to be strange to say the list he contorted “they are coming to you”. With that the preparation continued until 7:30pm, I was anxiously pacing, didn’t know how to approach him. So I just went straight up and told him- “please, come down with me”, and got a “no” in return. Realizing it was fruitless, he wasn’t coming, I went to greet invited guests. As people began to arrive, everyone naturally was asking about him. I just said he isn’t coming tonight. One male friend, particularly concerned, ran up the flight of stairs and stormed our bedroom. As he later described their exchange:he hugged him and told him he missed him, “come on down man”, my uBPDh told him to summon me. As I walked inside of my bedroom my uBPDh said that “if a single soul will enter here, or ask me to come down, I will burn this house down”. With that, he slammed the door and locked it.
Wow, few things, when he splits on me, and I don’t engage, he ampts up the volume, because as he later comments on his behaviour “he wants me to feel the same way he does, and if I don’t look miserable and broken it makes him angry”. What is it? Projection? Psychological abuse?
The party went on, people are, laughed, talked, with a few awkward moments of silence it went better then I expected. People’s loving words somewhat soothed me. As they left I took a shower in my d14 bathroom, but decided that I wasn’t gonna impose on my children and went to my own bedroom where he slept.
Now that’s it’s morning, what do I do? How do I behave? What is not shielding him from the consequences look like? I’m still angry, that he ruins every single Birthday for me. I’m hurt and embarrassed. I also don’t want to layer more emotions for him, as he is backed into the corner. I see it clearly, it’s probably guilt mixed with repulsion he feels for me. How do I approach it in BPD ninja style? We are supposed to leave tomorrow back to his work, do I come after what he pulled on me?

At this point.  I wouldn't bring it up.

Wait till things are calm and discuss it directly and succinctly.

Focus on you and enjoying yourself... .let his fit run its course.

I will write more later... .mobile now.

FF

Oh, @formflier, how I need you!
Recent development, as I was cleaning aftermath of last nights party uBPDh came down. Spoke curt and abraptly with my father, who he is normally very pleasant with. Announced that he is leaving to the other city, and demanded that I cancel the tickets to the upcoming trip for him. I said that I will go and pack, he said “you aren’t coming”, my reply “we always travel together” (I can’t fix relationships with distance between us). I can clearly see that he is ashamed of his behaviour and instead of fixing it, chooses to run away. I’m packing as we speak, because when I care down I told him that I’m going, his reply is “I don’t give a bleep” what you do. It’s a positive development, because I didn’t hear a no. Where does it leave us? Formflier, I feel that he is bruding towards “we are different people, we need to break up” phase. How do I stop this bleeding? Should I stay home? Let him go? Based on his crumbling relationships with our children, I know that distance will only serve him to realize that he is guilty, and the marriad of negative emotions will push him to distraction of marriage. Advise please

Is this really true? 

Flip it around.  Since I have been close to him... .it's fixed our relationship.  Is this true?

I'm reluctant to give you a stay or go signal.

It would seem that he has given you a signal.

Generally... .when someone is "pushing and pulling"... .if they push... .you push... .but not quite as hard.  If they pull... you pull... .but not quite as hard.

Why make plans if they can be abruptly changed?  What are you training him... .teaching him... .about how and what he has to do in order to spend time with you?

FF

You are asking me these questions, and I don’t know what to reply. I know that just being there, present, sitting beside him, not running away or flinching has helped him to calm down in the past.
I don’t know what I’m teaching him, what am I teaching from your objective observation. He again stated that “you aren’t coming”. Do I keep pushing?

Perhaps you missed the push pull dynamic.

If he pushes you away... .you push away... .but a lot less.  If he pulls you closer... .you pull too... .just not as hard.

"You are not coming... ."

"You are right... .perhaps some space will help things calm."

FF

As compared to... .?

FF

I’m so scared right now, I literally don’t know how I’m going to pull through this on my own. With my son’s disability, household bills, all of it. I also see clearify in your advice, he is pushing, so I need to push too, kind of like stirring the car in the same direction. Formflier, thank you so much

Be gentle... .be kind, especially to yourself and your kids.

Don't predict doom...

Focus on the relationships with your children... .

It's tough to be scared.  Even tougher to be scared and try to cope with that in a different way.  Stay big picture, understand the long term importance of change. 

Be kind to yourself.

FF

Any updates?

Did you end up staying at your parents or going back to the business location with him?

FF

Snowglobe,

I'm so sorry for how you're feeling, and for the disappointing birthday.

In your most recent posts, I hear your fear that if you set boundaries and look out for yourself, he will abandon you, or do other frightening things.  That fear feels to real, and so upsetting.  Yet that is exactly what he is counting on.  If you are scared, it makes him feel more secure.  He is doing what works for him.  formflier is offering sound advice.  The person who is being chased in a relationship has the power.  He is pushing you away, so you panic, then run after him, and he feels safe.  This gives him a reward for abusing you.  Ouch.  If you can manage to be even neutral during an exchange like this, you will have achieved a major step towards changing the dynamic.  When he says, "you are not coming," you can say, "Perhaps that's a good idea, I miss the kids and my parents, let me think about that" in a gentle and neutral tone.

Going back to the car situation -- I have had similar experiences to you and formflier in cars.  An appropriate boundary would be to remain safe at all times.  Driving down a highway with someone screaming at you, with you afraid of being hit, is not safe.  Pull over, preferably in a public place like a roadside restaurant where you can get help if he were to drive off.

Regarding the therapist -- it sounds like she is pushing you faster than you are ready.  I agree with formflier's concern about avoiding therapy.  One approach would be to tell her that she is pushing you faster than you feel ready.  Try to find common ground.  Steps like completing your education, etc. are things you would be doing as part of either an exit plan or a "stay" plan.  One needs to build strength in order to exit or stay, and many of the activities are the same.  One thing your therapist might be reacting to is your hope to help your husband get better.  It's a long shot.  He's your only husband, a 17 year relationship, the father of your children.  At this point, you feel like you have to believe in the long shot.  Your therapist does this for a living, and she is playing the odds.  Again, you can probably find common ground if you agree that the priority is working on *you*.  There is a lot of good work you can do with her to build your confidence and strength.  As you get stronger and better at implementing appropriate boundaries, things in your relationship may get better, or worse, depending on how he reacts.  If we, as your cheerleading section, support that right now you're not ready to leave, can you acknowledge that there is a possibility that as you get healthier and stronger you may reach a point where you may choose to do so?

Tell us about school.  Are you in a class now?  When does the next term start?  Can you take a class this summer?

WW

I hadn't considered this angle.

Whatever the reasons... .please have a frank conversation about your concerns with therapy and the direction of therapy? 

When she talks/explains... listen... .reflect back... .make sure you have gotten it right.

If things sound horrible... .ask for specifics... .details... .  Is she saying stuff specific to your relationship or in general about "high conflict" relationships.  If in general... well... .you know the score there... right? 

Most don't get treatment...

Drawing a new map for life is hard.  Walking it is harder... .keep up the good work. 

FF

@formflier and @wentworh,
Thank you for being here, it’s my first time since last morning that I can look at my phone screen. Here is the preceding events. The day following my birthday he was playing his favourite victim card, not coming down, not interacting, no eating or drinking. Everyone including my parents tried to get him to drink something, because last time he ate was Thursday. I kept on approaching him, being ignored of debugged, so I left. He kept on saying “I’m leaving, I have nothing in this house”, I tried to avoid giving him a reaction. Fast forward Sunday morning, visibly agitated he was pacing he rooms and yelling “I’m going out for breakfast( never mind the fridge is stocked from top to bottom), so I asked if he wanted me to fix something, he replied “ I’m not eating in this house” several times.
At that joint, sadly all the days I’ve kept it under control, just started coming out. It went something like this, although most of it is a blur. By then he was ready to leave, repeating that he is leaving, I turned around only in a bath towel, pushed him against the counter “you are leaving? This is your home, with your children that love and need you, you are leaving? How long are you going to do this to us?” He slapped me on the face, and tried to leave. I kept on pushing him, “let’s talk, listen to me, look at me, we need to figure this out, he continued hitting me. Next thing I knew was excruciating pain, he pushed a tube with sensodine paste into my eyeball and squirted. He basically emptied half of a  full tube into my right eye, i wailed and tried to get it out, with the pain increasing. Once it was out I kept on saying let’s talk. He agreed reluctantly saying that he felt as if I was making a sacrifice and I don’t listen to him. He works hard, it’s challenging and I’m making all the decisions (when to come back to kids, and etc) he also claimed that on my bday he was physically and emotionally exhausted and couldn’t wear the mask in public. That he was planning to go to a coffee shop and then come back (breakfast) I felt totally gaslighted. It was if I was BPD and he was the poor exhausted guy. As the time went on the pain became unbearable. I asked him to drive me to walk in clinic, few hours later to optometrist who reported large cornea abrasion. As the pain reached 9 out of 10 I asked him to drive me to the same place I had my Lazik eye surgery done, they said 40% of my cornea in my right eye was gone, they put a contact bandage and drops with antibiotics and anti inflammatory. I was in too much pain to say anything. He kept on quiet driving. When we came home it had marked 3 days since he ate last, and I just went upstairs as I’m getting splitting head aches because of incongruities between my eyes. I can’t see on my right one. As he came into my bed he said: “I’m so bummed I used up so much tooth paste, from now on every time you brush your teeth I want you to show me the amount you have used”, we need to save money on the tooth paste. What?. I tried to give him some validation, as I accept the fact that I pushed him first. I said “I imagine you feeling guilty about what you did. Looking at my bloodshot eye isn’t a pretty picture. I want to put it behind us” to that he replied:
“No, I’m not feeling bad or guilty, I feel great actually”?.
He then continued rubbing against me, putting my hand on his thigh, you can imagine the rest... .so I gave in to him... .as he fell asleep I was so shocked and confused and gaslighted. I realized that everything that he said as his way of explanation; that my birthday is a non holiday for him, that he doesn’t care to work on relationships, that he isn’t compromising. All of that only left one message: “ my way or highway”. Looking at the current state of his relationships with our children, he calls them “your children”, because they aren’t making an effort to entertain or placate him. Frankly, they are scared for him.  I’m so disappointed with myself, I was doing so well up until now, and I lost it in the worst way possible. I just couldn’t hold this emotional abuse any longer, I snapped. I wanted to fix it, make him see the devastating effect of his negligence and abuse. I’m having a follow up with an eye surgeon, not sure what the next steps are to heal it. The weekend trip is obviously cancelled, he didn’t want to come in the first place, it was all me asking him, I wanted to have the time away from work and kids to work on us. My parents are angry and confused with our behaviour. I don’t know what to do, how to live and breathe now. I’m talking to the therapist at 12:30 today, no wonder she will be shocked to see my shiner and hear the story. I feel helpless and hopeless, 17 years of keeping our marriage together, I don’t know the solution to this problem. Other then letting go

Uggg... .prayers that the doctors will find a way to heal your eye.

Does letting go mean the end of the marriage?  I don't think so.

Somehow, my hope is that YOU can find a way to control the pressure that YOU control in the relationship... .let that pressure bleed out... .

There is likely so much nuance here that pressure and "rescuing" are all mixed in together.

Can you see your reaction and the reaction of your FOO to someone that is voluntarily not eating?  He is in a house... .with plenty of food... .

Please... I'm not saying or suggesting that "is" the problem, but it's somewhere in the toxic soup.

   

Listen... .you have some big new stories to tell your T... and some frank discussions to have as well.  

 

FF

Snowglobe,


I am sorry your husband and your relationship has reached this point.   I know it's painful and frightening and confusing all at once.

I am going to put a link in for your to read.   Please click on it.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61403.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61403.0)

this clip is from that link:


No one asks or deserves to be abused.   Your physical safety is your number one priority now.

Please let us know how you are doing when you can.  We are thinking of you.

'ducks

Snowglobe,

This was a serious assault.  What did the clinic say, was it reported?

I think when we keep repeating destructive patterns, our family and friends do grow tired of how we're acting. They try to help us only to have us not listen, go back to what we know best... .wash, rinse, repeat.

The hardest part in this is knowing that something has to change. We realize it, but aren't patient and consistent and so we just resort to what we always do. Snowglobe, please know that this can get better (whatever that may look like) and it doesn't have to start with the huge step of dissolving the marriage. It's taking the first steps of changing how YOU deal with these situations that arise and escalate. We can only control ourselves after all, right?

I know after these huge outbursts, we feel defeated and hurt. Hopeless.

But that's just our feelings and not necessarily the bigger picture.

A good first step you're taking is seeing your therapist. That's all you need to do right now. Take that step. Let her help you in this. Be honest and take her advice to heart and in motion. Maybe have a safety plan in place?

We're here for you every step of the way.    

Hello all,
I wanted to give you a quick update, I’m home, he is driving me to every appointment, not sure if it’s fear or guilt, he hasnt left back to work. I wasn’t able to have a seasion, my right eye doesn’t see much, everything is in double and it’s creating headaches and incongruouincies in my brain. I have not reported him, as I do feel partially responsible for this. I honestly confessed to you all that I was the one who pushed him first, and wanted to “figure things out”. I’m reading your messages to me, it will be a few more days till the surgeon will replace the bandage contact and see the stage of healing. I’m numb from pain, and disappointed with myself

I'm glad you're getting the attention you need for your injury.


Were you able to reschedule? Are you keeping the appointment on Thursday? This is as important for self-care as taking care of your eye.


That's OK.

We're here for you.  

   

This is a good thought.  |iiii

Can I challenge you when you are thinking these things through to ask yourself... ."what could I have done better here?" (stay away from bad/good or right or wrong)


Spend most of your effort there, because you control you and when you realize that there was/is a better way... .the energy you put there is very likely to pay off.

I would challenge you to spend some time (much less in comparison to time spent reflecting on what you could do) thinking about what your hubby could have done differently.    No... I'm not doublespeaking here... .I don't want you to "fix" him, but I also don't want you to "let him off the hook".

Yes... .today you went first.  It's likely on other days he went first.  I can't imagine that spending time figuring out "the score" is in anyway helpful.

All of that energy needs to be poured into YOU realizing that this is a turning point for you.  

FF

*bump*

Snowglobe,

How is your eye?  I've been concerned for you, especially since we haven't heard anything in a bit.

Can you give us an update? 

FF

Dear @formflier and all the other members, thank you so much for providing support and validation during my times of need. Here’s recap of the past 2 weeks- my eye is very slowly healing, I’m currently off of medications and have to wait another week all the while lubricating, in order to facilitate healing. Three days post my injury he needed to go away, back to “work” read another city. At that point I was a mess, physically and emotionally broken. I couldn’t drive, I was still pretty shaken up with hurt and disbelief, at both, myself and him. We came to “work”, and he threw himself at work, to distract. I went immediately into Skype therapy and realized that Gistalt type isn’t working for me. I also discovered that some of the symptoms, such as fear of being left by my uBPDh and need to “control” the setuation was driving me further into despair. Comparing to a vibrant young woman a year and a half ago, who still had some issues with uBPDh and a total mess I am today I don’t recognize myself, nor do I like myself. The change has to beggin with healing, and the only way I fundamentally believe I can help myself is through DBT therapy. I’m being vulnerable with you all, it’s a difficult thing to admit, but it looks like some of my actions “mirror” those of my uBPDh. Do I have a full blown BPD- the simple insert is no. Do I have healthy coping tool- the answer is again, no.
So the plan of action is as such at this moment- I enrolled in and paid for Marsha Linehan’s dbt 12 weeks program starting May 29th. It will be a first step at self checking and perhaps helpful for my relationships with uBPDh. I’m also due to go back to university to continue with my psychology degree on the 22nd of May for one course in summer school. Additionally, reached out to recruitment/resume company that will help me build a resume and start looking for a position for September, once my school is done. I can’t express how scary it it for me, it’s been over 11 years since I held a real employment. For these 11 years I have been a bookkeeper, personal assistant, PR, HR, Massauce, cook, cleaning lady, a nurse, therapist, pressional girlfriend all to one person. I’m excited, yet frightened to discover this vibrant and energetic woman I believe I am, the one who perseveres and pushes through. I never had anyone to push through and cheerlead for me, perhaps it’s time.  I intend to go on as many interviews as possible, just to get my feet wet, I don’t want a position out of desperation, as I would have to take should he decide to leave me shortly. This “school setuation” will provide a legitimate buffer for me to start caring for myself. I also want to start a gym program, which I forsaken a while back. My self esteem is deeply rooted at how I look, so restoring the “killer” body would certainly be helpful. Finally, the most important, I want to commit to one year DBT program. I’m currently looking for someone who is trained specifically in DBT, it’s not as easy as I though it would be. Many advertise as, but have limited training. My goal is to secure one before the end of the month to help with with transition.
This involuntary “silent retreat” I’m currently in, have been a very interesting painful experience. For when uBPDh is at work, I’m alone either doing household chores, or shopping, or FaceTiming my children. I’ve realized that many fears and beliefs I have are two sided. One stems from the fear of unknown, or what he would do when I’m away: e.g. forget I exist, as he seems to forgotten about our children, cheat on me, realize that this bachelor lifestyle is exactly what he wanted, make a mistake so irreversible, that I won’t be able to forgive and move past it. And there is another side, my side, I’m frightened of the lonely nights, of parent teacher interview alone, of my friends inviting me, and me showing up alone, at what I might do if someone shows me a little attention and affection, would I be able to resist when he is away?. Of leading two separate lives with two separate goals, of the resentment I harbour when he is away most of the month, only to come home and leave to a shooting range with his friend, of him choosing to allocate his money, or money he earned elsewhere, for example his foo instead of our family or his kids, and so on... .in a world where I don’t exist if I say no, when my opinion isn’t considered, if my only purpose is to wait on him, I can no longer be silent and silenced. No, I don’t have the skills or ability to elevate myself from despair, yet. What I now have is the strongest desire to live a life worthy of living, and being happy and content with what I have.

It appears there is some physical healing going on.  How long is that process predicted to be?


Am I correct in my interpretation that you are stopping you relationship with your current T (that was via skype... correct?)?

Will your DBT program be in person or via electronic delivery?

I'll certainly have more thoughts after you answer the above, but one thing concerns me.

I would recommend that you develop a primarily "in person" (you sitting in an office with a T) relationship, that can sometimes morph into phone calls, texts and emails as your life dictates.

I would also recommend that you find someone that is PhD level and has many years of experience.  A person like that can work with you and use  and shift between different "modalities" of treatment (DBT,CBT... etc etc) without you really knowing it... .not that there is anything particularly wrong with knowing or not knowing.

I hope you will agree that your case is not one for newbies, you need experience and education.

I hope you will agree that it's time to "be open" about going to T and making changes.  Let your hubby react how he will.  

I'll wait on your answers before commenting further.  

Wishing your  a speedy recovery.

FF

This concerns me greatly!   red-flag   red-flag

Because an extension of this thinking is that while I'm not in school I'm not allowed to care for myself.

In addition... .

I can't imagine that DBT therapy would "hurt" your situation or recovery... .yet by the same token I can't imagine that someone with such a recent traumatic physical experience and injury... .who also is not a trained mental health professional is in the best position to sort through figuring out what is the best next step for you to build a healthier life for you and your family.

FF

Additionally, I didn’t fully explain in my previous reply, the damage to the cornea was so significant that I now see double in my right eye, and a huge myopia, meaning I can’t see far. Current sight is 20/50! Which means I will require vision correction in a near future. How do I feel about it?. Conflicted. On one hand I take responsibility for pushing him first, on the other hand, what he did to me isn’t a push or even a punch. He used a third object, in my case toothpaste, to intentionally hurt me. It’s a very frightening though, that the person I am supposed to trust would do this to me. From simple observations, it’s only me that he allows himself to yell at, insult, make fun of, put down or raise his voice. As my ExT told me, once he puts his suit on and speaks in a very proper quiet voice, no one will ever suspect what is happening behind the closed doors. When the incident first occurred we made three separate trips to seek help for my eye; first to the walk in clinic, second to nearby optometrist and finally to the Lazik clinic that first corrected my vision 8 years ago. Since then the latest has been handling my setuation and calling decisions regarding the treatment. I was luckily enough, they don’t charge me for the treatment, as my uBPDh paid for the highest package, lifetime guarantee. At every of the three visits the medical specialist asked me how did this damage occur. I knew that if I told the truth, the consequences would be very severe for my uBPDh. So instead, I said that it was an accident, and the bottle with “toothpaste” ricocheted into my eye?. Lame, I know. Yet, the second person who looked at my eye, and insisted on me going to emerge immediately, called me 3 days later. At first I was surprised to hear from her, and through it was just a follow up call, she didn’t charge me for consultation, she said she wasn’t “equipped” to deal with a large trauma like that. However, when she continued on asking me, question after question, and finally telling me that she went into her medical journals and realized that the toothpaste is predominantly ph... .something, don’t know how to explain, she basically called me on my words saying that this kind of damage couldn’t occur simply from a squirt of large tooth paste... .and again, asked me why I didn’t go into emergency. It hit me like a lightning rod, she knew. She saw my uBPDh, she saw my eye, she knew it wasn’t banal accident. The way it basically happened, was he pushed the tube into the open eye, tireburing 40% of the cornea, then he squeezed the paste, successfully burning the open wound. So there I was, standing in the middle of the kitchen, listening to her suspicions, and my uBPDh intently and nervously listening to our conversation. At the end, I thanked her for the follow up call, didn’t confirm her suspicions, she asked me to come in and see her when I’m back. I thanked her silently in my head, it’s a rare occasion for someone to show this level of care.

Thank you for replying, when I mentioned liginimate buffer, I refer to my uBPDh’s interpretation of reality. If I were just to leave right now, he would take it as “rats fleeing the sinking ship”, his business is all sorts of crazy, unstable and unpredictable, so me, serving as his caregiver and validator is expected. If I’m in school, there is some room, in his eyes for me to be back home. It would not be a dramatic exit, more, ok babe, got to get to class so I can be done with the school stuff. Additionally, you are absolutely correct about me finding someone with a lot of experience and expertise, the wait lists are long, and I don’t want to go to a newbie or someone without enough experience to recognize the urgency of the setuation. I don’t fancy myself having any idea of how to transition and heal in a healthiest way possible.
My kids fell ill with a stomach flu on Thursday, shortly after so did both of my parents. Some nasty strain of stomach bug, so once my mom called and told me that everyone is down, my natural reaction was to grab a train and come home to care for my children. As soon as my uBPDh heard the conversation, he started saying: “get the beep out, go, leave, I don’t ever want to see you again. I’m getting sick, but what do you care?. (He was fine in the morning)I’m tired of your wining s$&t, just can you leave?. And never come back?”. So there I was, standing, torn between coming home to help my family, and fear instilled by him, that if I leave, I may not return. Perhaps my parents sensed something, because they called back immediately, instructing me not to come. The virus is highly contentious, and since all of them were sick, it’s best just to ride it out. That it wasn’t critical for me to come back.
His reaction want surprising either, he went back to love bombing, “do you love me, mommy?” And me cooking dinners, washing his clothes, cleaning the condo, washing him after work, giving him medication for “mancold”, massaging him is why he loves me so much. No kidding.

@formflier- Rehysical healing, the ophthalmologist can’t give any predictions as of yet. Cornea is closed now, but with large scars going all around it, this blurring out the vision. I have an appointment next Friday, for now it’s wait and heal and see, with the eye drops. Once the cornea is fully healed and isn’t irritated, the eye surgeon will decide on the best type of surgery to correct the remaining. It will be weeks for sure. Because my school and DBT course start in the same week, I plan to come back home to start attending weekly sessions for DBT one on one with a psychologist.

I’m stopping my relationships with a current T for the following reasons: she isn’t trained in DBT, she doesn’t have a doctorate, she thinks the quick fix to all my problems is to leave my uBPDh, she is cheaper for obvious reasons, she works from home, via Skype, but not better, I need one on one, face to face, she isn’t validating, she is projecting her reality onto mine.

So... .how did you train (or perhaps continue to train) your hubby to get you to stay?

What works for him... .and what doesn't work for him (in his eyes).

 red-flag  

FF

So... when you have discussed this with your current T... what are her thoughts?

FF

 red-flag   red-flag


Who allows this to happen?  I'm not suggesting he has no responsibility here... .not for a moment.  Isn't there someone else involved in the treatment of you as well?

FF

Did I train him to push me away, and me holding on to him for dear life instead?
Works for him for me to be obedient and serving, giving? Doesn’t work for him to take care of me, or anyone for that matter, other then him?

She isn’t happy that I haven’t given her a chance, and that she is loosing my business. Yet, I can say that since our relationships began, my personal life is in even sadder state that it has been. She is constantly asking me when will I leave him? First, I never definitively stated that I want to leave my relationships, second, emotional, socio economical (pragmatic) reasons, lack of social support are all the things to take into consideration. I am guilty of predominantly black and white thinking, yet, her “leaving the abuser, who will never change” motto is bringing me down, making me depressed and sad.

I have been trained as well as he did. Early on in the relationships his explanation/rational to me was explicitly stated: I yell at you/ punish you -> you take it, because you served it-> we continue relationships
Option 2: I yell/ punish you, because you deserve it in my mind-> you ignore me, or don’t do as I say, fix the relationships-> I leave you

I wanted to be in these relationships more then then anything I ever wanted. I do not see our relationships  ( read I don’t see myself, my reactions, my behaviours) change without skilled and experienced psychologist trained in DBT and necessary tools to tolerate distress and ambiguity that these relationships provide. I have been conditioned to believe that if I don’t play along, there is no value in me, as a partner or a place in these relationships.

I'm concerned you are not "seeing" this.  

He wants you to stay... .he "does his thing"... .you stay.  It works for him.  

This is you "training him to do what works".

He wants you to stay... .he "does his thing"... .you don't stay.  It doesn't work for him.  He is then faced with a choice... .

He will very likely "up the ante" in the short run, by increasing "his thing", if he gets you back or gets you to stay, this "validates the invalid" or validates his way.  you are worse off

If it doesn't work and when he is nice (or at least non abusive) to you... .you give him some attention... .then he is now being trained to get your attention in a different way.

He wants your attention  Repeat... repeat... repeat... .

He has chosen you... and wants your attention.

repeat... repeat repeat...

If this is true, what does this mean for your future (this being he wants your attention)?

FF

Snowglobe,

I've read your thread and am deeply saddened to hear what you're going through.  Incredibly I also have an eye injury which was a corneal abrasion and know just how painful that was. You had toothpaste added to the mix, which must have been agonising.  I hope that your treatment improves your vision as much as possible.  I have to apply the drops daily for the rest of my life.

It is wonderful that you are making moves to independently improve your life and I applaud you for that.  FF is walking you through how you can make changes with your H and I have a couple of other questions for you.  :)o you feel safe around your husband?  Has he ever been physically violent with your children, or with you in front/within earshot of them?  

Whether you plan to stay or to leave (and nobody here will tell you what to do), what is most important is your safety and that of your kids.  With that in mind, I would encourage you to fill out the MOSAIC risk assessment (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=304172) which will help you to be clear on your current situation.  Would you be prepared to do that and tell us your score?  You don't have to share the score with us if you don't want to, but it would help us to know how safe you are right now.  

It's also advisable that you have a safety plan in place.  Have you ever talked about this with your T?

Love and light x  

Snowglobe,

I'm concerned that you are not "hearing" your T correctly when she says you need to "leave" your hubby.

To all:  I fully understand that bpdfamily doesn't allow "run" messages.  That's not what I'm doing, and I don't believe that your T was telling you that either.

As in... .leave him permanently... .regardless of how he acts after you leave him.

I'm thinking there is a strong possibility your T is advising you to "break the cycle"... .to "stop training him" in how to get you to stay... ."to do something different"


While there is some degree of speculation on my part about what your T is "really" advising you, there is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER about what I intend to tell you.

I would ask that you reflect this back to me in your own words.

When your husband threatens you about leaving, you need to leave but only if you can "stay gone" until he stops threatening. 

If you leave, his threats increase and you return... .it will be far worse than if you never left

You must have a clear understanding of "intermittent reinforcement"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63989.0

So... .from a certain point of view, it is accurate to say that I, FF, am advising you to "leave your husband".  If that's all you said to someone else about FF's advice, you would be missing the most important parts of my advice.

Can you reflect back to me your understanding of my advice and what you learned about "intermittent reinforcement"?

FF

Dear @Formflier, you are absolutely correct, about me not seeing it. I will try to explain why. As you mentioned previously, it’s “he then has a choice” that twists my guts a bit. I wholeheartedly don’t believe that the odds will be in my favour. I do admit that this belief stems from low self esteem. My husband just doesn’t work on relationships with anyone, not his children, not his friends, not his foo. If it requires any work, or effort, he tells me that it’s not worth it. Things need to “come naturally”, whatever it means. Actually, I do know what it means... .it means he does what he wants, and on his own accord. All the while people wait for him, call him, ask him to come back. When he decides he is ready, he might consider.
If it’s true, what you are saying, there is a glimpse of hope to change the way he gets my attention in a positive way. I’m just so darn good to please and think of all the small details to make someone comfortable. I almost take pride and pleasure of being the caregiver. You take away that, where does it leave me? My survival and thriving as a child depended on how well I could predict my mom’s hystreonic mood, or how well I could praise my unp dad. Putting me first, listening to my emotions, navigate according to what I believed was right for me was never an option. As an adult woman, I need to learn those self soothing, self caring skills, where mindfulness is a core component. How to withhold social pressure and gaslighting, how to regulate emotions, according to my core believes. I’ve spent 17 years being a very good wingman. My husband almost achieved everything he ever dreamt of. He isn’t anywhere closer to “happiness”, according to him. He is sad, depressed and frustrated. (All according to him). I am exceptionally skilled at regulating his moods, that I give to myself. I am terrible at regulating my own, also true, paradoxically.  If what you observe from my posts is true, it’s another proof of imminent need for therapy for me, to provide me with strong foundation, skills and reality check.
P.s. I’m sorry if my answers are frustrating for you @formflier, I truly don’t see some things that might be obvious for you. Clearifying could really help me to see the other possible scenario

 red-flag   red-flag


No... .you are not good at regulating his moods. 

FF

Dear @Harley Quinn,
It was extremly traumatic experience that I haven’t began to process yet. I’m still emotionally numb, and every time I think of it, I have a wave of sadness and victim feeling that is extremely uncomfortable.  The only other time that there has been physical altercations occurred 3 years ago, he shoved me and I slapped him back. He isn’t the kind of person who “jumps” me out of a blue, at least not yet. I do feel relatively safe with him, as long as I don’t struggle or try to “get my way”, according to him, or “my needs met”, according to me. So far I haven’t been told that my vision will fully recover, so I’m being cautiously optimistic. The emotional abuse he has been inflicting is far more agonizing, his taunting, silent treatments, name calling is all part of repertoire. When we “talked” after the incident occurred he accused me of being selfish?. And I agreed. For wanting to come back, for deciding when we come, for asking him to care and participate in family activities and celebrations. All of that makes me selfish in his eyes. I’m not allowed to do any of that. I need to be a team player, as if I haven’t been one. I need to “compromise”, but there isn’t any compromises, as he always has the Final word. Even if and when we decide on things together he reserves a right to call it off. For some reason, my friends have been sharing their observations with me... my uBPDh, according to our mutual friends can’t tolerate me being happy, if he hasn’t given a permission for that. If I’m happy, unburdened and carefree he says “your life is too good, time for reality check”. He then starts to manipulate emotionally, silent treatment, insults, put downs, then threatens to pull away financial support for the kids, then starts saying we need to sell the house, and live in a rental, when rental would cost more then mortgage. He knows all the weak spots, if 9 out of 10 it wouldn’t work, on the 10th when I’m crying and visibly distressed, he changes his tune. Starts Love bombing and tries to elicit caregiving for himself. It’s expected, as I can’t being of any service when I’m emotionally disturbed. And the cycle repeats, he breaks me down because I’m too happy, or don’t pay attention to him, it doesn’t happens immediately, not yet, thank G-d. It shows some resilience and relative mental health. I will take the test, and let you know once I have the results

*mod*

This thread has been locked due to length and continued in a new thread (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=324963.0).