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Hi family. 

This week I received calls, texts, meet up for coffee, it seemed natural and good.

all to do w the support I got here, working on myself, seeing my part. 

I do believe that no situation is too difficult to be bettered.

This community has helped me, more than I can say.

Thank you

I used to be j  u  j  u  6  8 sixty

Hi family,

One thing I noticed at coffee, he is looking rough around the edges, his work is going bumpy.

I didn't rescue, was empathetic.  He is sharing things again, things that are private and it means he trusts me. 

I am sad to see him struggling, he does have his own Higher Power.

Last nite I dreamt that i snuck into his house, saw him and o.w. in bed, and she had a crying baby in bed w them.  It was very strange... .!

My step dtr, his dtr, is about to have a baby, so it's probably from thinking about her.  It was such a weird dream.

j

Hi juju,

It's good to hear that things are still going smoothly when you have your contact with him.  How did feel when you didn't rescue as he talked about things that aren't going well for him?  It sounds like you are coming across as stronger.  Was there any reaction from him about your not jumping in to help?

Love and light x

Hi

Thank you for your response.

I didn't pick up so much a reaction, just him telling more about what was happening... .and the old me would be like, what do you need?
and i didnt do that.  It seemed ok, since I did empathize and not rescue.  Guess it felt strange to me because i was using new tools... .

Is that possible.  Is that why it felt strange.

I spent so much time Caretaking during the 10 yrs.

I am not doing that any more.

It's hard to learn new ways of being.  I heard a lot of stressful things he is going thru.  I know he appreciates being able to share that w me.  I am not judging.

Now, two days later, I see that i am emotional support for him, and i guess that is where the r/s is.  We have history, and i don't know where our r/s is going frankly.

How does that make you feel?  If things were to remain as they are, would you be willing to accept that and keep him in your life?

Love and light x

Hi

Am looking at the big picture.  Am trying not to make any assumptions or decisions... .

When I did text him about 3 wks ago, that am going to not see him, and he can call, text... .he called, texted and came over twice, so I know that he doesn't want us to not see eachother.  He also said he enjoys the weekly time together... .  and for unknown reason, perhaps fear of my untreated co dependency (I am 15 months in recovery for that), he is keeping his distance because he wants to see how i am over time.  May 1 I have one year for a different addiction.  So him and i have been thru a lot.

He did say in October, that he interfered w my recovery. 

We both have issues that we are in recovery for.

I was very ill our last yr together w untx codependency and my other addiction... .

He has 19 yrs in his recovery.

Thank you for your support.

J

You're showing great strength to come so far in your recovery juju.    Congratulations in advance of your one year mark!  Do you also feel he interfered with your recovery?

I'm wondering what sort of a feel you have about how his relationship is going.  Does his partner know that the two of you meet up?

Love and light x

We don't talk about it.  He only said one time he was in a r/s.  So I do not know what he is or isn't doing.  He isn't acting like he is in a r/s, he calls, texts, meets w me.  If i was in a r/s w someone, I would not he acting as he is w me.  We also went away together to recovery weekend, 4 days, 3 nites together.

I know her a little bit.

My impression is she is not that emotionally available.  She is recovering from the same thing he is recovering, and has the same traits:selfish, self centered, perfectionist, irritable, restless, and discontented.  It's hard to be around, even w recovery... .

I know he worries about his financial situation, o always covered what we needed.  I supported him in what he wanted in life.  I saw his talents.  He supported me in what I was up to.  We really had some good things.  We also had some clashes, mainly because i did not understand BPD.

He says now, he only has ptsd.

New Dr.  New dx.

I doubt this.   he has untx. Dx BPD.  I don't know why he wants to ignore his dx.  To me that isn't a good sign.



What I get from him, is that he needs me for emotional support, which he said when we were in counseling.  So I meet w him, and try my best to take care of myself.

Thank you, j

juju2, I am glad you are able to step back and analyse that situation without getting directly involved.

I know this is hard, and I have only been able to do this myself recently.  I am detached when my uBPD H dyregulates.  I was once devastated and hurt.  It was severely impacted and the stress affected my health and ability to function.

No more.  I see him with open eyes and it's empowering to know that I did nothing to make H this way.

Hi family

Am just reaching out.

Weekends are the hardest.  I miss spending time w him.

People say get busy.  I have done a lot of that. Am quite busy.

 am sad today, not knowing for a long time now if we will actually get back together.   j

What kind of things would you do with him on the weekends?

Do you think it would be good to keep doing those type of things or perhaps better to find totally new activities that don't remind you of him.  Thoughts?

FF

Hi,

We would sit on the porch, have coffee, talk to people walking by, our German shepherd was there w us, maybe later take him to the dog park.

It's like I didn't cherish the special moments... .

I was irritated alot by the BPD attributes, perfectionism, criticising how i put dishes in the d/w, house being dirty, that's why his asthma so bad, etc, etc.  Getting hung up on weeds, ignoring the many flowers.  Now when we get together, it's flowers!

One thing I have going is I am becoming aware of BPD, am getting help for my co dependency, and am becoming a person I like. May 1 I have one year sobriety for problem gambling.

Thank you everyone for your contributions to me.

Sincerely, j

Hi family

This was a long weekend.

I am missing my separated s.o., utx BPD, now he says it's not BPD, it's ptsd.

He is seeing someone else, we see eachother Thursdays for 90 min.
I work full time, go to school, volunteer in the community, and work a 12 step.

This weekend i had too much time on my hands for sure.

Am just looking for positives, and am reaching out.

w hope, j

Hi juju,

Sorry to hear it was a rough weekend!  With as much as you said you have going on (work, school, volunteering)... .what do you do for fun?  Just for you?  What do you do for self care that can potentially take your mind in a more positive direction?

We're here... .keep reaching out!

mw

Going on a year now... .

What was your addiction? What was happening in the relationship when he left? What is it that troubles him about you as a partner?

Skip,

It would be untreated co dependency, I have 15 months in that program, and 1yr free of gambling.

I was toxic, he was toxic.  Mostly I blamed him for all our issues.

Idk what he has that i am not a good partner now, I was overweight, list 50 lbs since oct.  Am guessing he needs to see consistency over time, that i have changed.

Can your briefly sketch this part out for us?

What did the toxicity look like in the month prior to splitting up?

What is and up and a down ride of great times and then bad... .or consistently bad?

FF

Hi f,

It's my perception.

When I see him, I am up, hope is there.  When i don't see him, then I start obsessing, worrying, that things aren't going to work out.  I am the problem.

When we split, he was withdrawn, barely talking, when he did talk to me he was gruff.  He has since told me he wasn't going to interfere w me, he knew I was talking to people who wanted us to split up, and i was making things worse, not knowing the tools, not validating, etc.  So I get it that he was fed up w me too, he now says it was probably the best thing that could have happened to us, because, now when we go for coffee, it's fun, we both look forward to that, it's totally different than how we used to be w one another.  We had several months of traveling, vacations, a family trip last year, during the separation. We would spend weekends together... .Everything came to a screeching halt, he got a new psychiatrist, he told me he had interfered w me (twelve step wise, w my co d) and so he basically dropped out of my life... .October
21, 2017.(He is a mentor in his 12 step program, 19 yrs, and i have heard him say to his guys, you are interfering.  You need to basically get out of her life... .)
During when he stopped seeing me, I lost 50 lbs, started class after work, volunteer, am active in my program.  So 6 months of me being a very different person... .usually in 12 step, you are considered a newbie until you have at least one year... .

  Then couples counseling opened up, nov-march this year.  Our T suggested starting very slow, going to coffee somewhere once a week.  That is where we are, jan-april, 2018.  He will call, text, email.  I let him initiate that, unless it's my week to set up coffee... .

Thursday he was sharing his life w me, much more than he had been.  I see progress from that.

I am just sad looking at all the time we are missing.

Thank you,  j

If you remember in some other posts... .we've talked about push pull... .and specifically not to chase. 

Sometimes when people "withdraw" it's because of them... not us.  They kinda know (without being able to articulate it) that they need some space (for whatever reason).

Well... .what is the result of giving space?

Now when you see each other... .it seems like something you look forward to. 

Just a little something to tuck away for times when you feel like pushing... chasing... .

FF

Good morning

Am getting pull messages, he texted yesterday, hope you are having a great day, want to get our animals together, want to come and install that faucet.

Am reaching out to you all, we have coffee tomorrow nite and I asked if we could talk about it then.  Am moving slow and steady.  Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thank you,  j

Hi,

bumping this thread.  We meet for coffee tomorrow and idk what to say about his request for our animals to meet up, all of us, at our house we shared.

Is this a pull.

I think whatever it is, it's good.   am afraid to get my hopes up. 

He didn't go to the hospital to see his dtr, he missed out on the birth of his grandbaby, it looks to me like he is out of control.  She hasn't seen him for 6 months.  That was the last time him and i spent the weekend together... .

I know I am making assumptions, and it's good for me to just focus on myself.  That is what i am learning in al anon.

Thank you,  j

What don't you know? 

Listen... big picture push pull advice.  When they pull... .you pull too... just not as hard. 

So... .doing stuff together at the house could be interpreted as much more intimate... .it's a situation just like when you lived there... .most likely.

So perhaps you let him know you are taking your animal to a new park for a walk and play time... .see when he can meet you.  Remember... .you go anyway and have a great time... .if he can't go.



Yeah... .I would say it is a pull, but I would not go overboard in interpreting it.  There is a chance he intends to send a signal... there is a chance he hasn't though it through. 

Don't overthink.



Enjoy the moments you have together... .the future will take care of itself.  The past isn't coming back. 

I certainly remember looking for "the sign" that my pwBPD has come to their senses. That is frustrating to "see" it... .and then realize it wasn't true.

I think in my case was really hoping to convince my pwBPD to "see it my way"... .

Now... I try to be much more ok with her having her way and I have my way.

Perhaps my "thought journey" fits... .if it does use it... .if not, I doubt it's a huge deal.



That's not your circus... .

Even in "regular" relationships... .it's not a good idea to "interpret" things inside someone else's relationship to have meaning outside that relationship.

It's even more important to avoid doing that when there is relationship dysfunction.

Not your circus...


Much less assumptions are a good thing... .relax and enjoy things now... .

FF

Thank you f.

Will need to meet at our house, I have our cats, he has our dog.  They all play together, dog is part of the pack.

Ok I get it, basically just be myself and everything will take care of itself... .

It is a big step for us, we haven't been at our house together since over 4 months.  Thank you for helping me think this through.  j

Then I would find something you can do somewhere else... .

slow and steady is very different than big steps...

Why not take your cats to some other place?

Remember... .boundary issues around YOUR HOME.  Don't create entanglements.

FF

Hi f,

I was thinking it was a good step forward.?  We haven't had anything other than coffee together. I can't take the cats out of the house, they are indoor cats... . 

Maybe we could just take the dog to the dog park.
He had asked to see the cats, he loves them, just like I love our dog... .

So help me figure this out.  He called tonite, to see if he could come over after coffee tomorrow, he needs something from the house, one of his tools...

He also said the remodel he just did, the client talked to him, didn't like what went on w his worker, that guy broke stuff, was not a good person to have on the job.  Also he said he did not make any money... .I didn't rescue, just validated and was empathetic.

Ok.  Thanks everyone.

Ok, so I texted him, am leaving the key to our house outside, works better that way... .(he can get what he needs tomorrow when I am at wk.)

f,  when is this going to be different.

does anyone know what I am looking for that we could go to the next step

What does your MC think of this?  I thought that doing stuff outside of the house was a boundary that everyone agreed on.

I would think it wise that everyone talk that through... in detail... before undoing that boundary.

Listen... you can do what you want, but there was a reason I suggested a modest "pull" to meet up with him... .but at a neutral spot.

"HOME" is NOT a neutral spot.

In my mind... that would be a big "PULL" for you to send that signal to him.  

Do you understand the concept behind giving him "less" of a pull signal and "less" of a push signal... .when he is giving those?


FF

Please stop looking for a "sign".

Step back... .stop analyzing every detail... relax.  Look at big picture patterns... .over time.

FF

I guess I don't understand that concept.  Pull, I pull, half of what he wants... .whatever happens, push, I push less.  Pull, I pull less.

What is the concept, again? 

Did I make the correct choice by letting him come to the house when I am at work to get his tools?

I will stop looking for a sign.  Thank you for the support.

The goal is to help "them" get to neutral or zero.

So... you want to be "between" where they are and zero.

FF

Thanks, f.

And we stopped going to couples counseling back in March, when he told me he was in a r/s.  That's when I had a melt down, told him i wasn't going to counseling anymore.  then we had two weeks controlled contact, then we started meeting up again for coffee... .so we have 5 weeks of coffee again, time about 1 hr.  He usually says he has to leave, do homework.  I have started saying I need to do x,y,z, am needing to leave.  It works better for me to leave first.

Our T said we should start w coffee.  She didn't say when we should do something different.

We didn't discuss at counseling about the home boundary. 

Anything anyone wants to share is appreciated. j

Thank you everyone,

Any ideas are appreciated.  I was thinking if he really wants to come over w me, we could sit on our porch.  there is no reason to go inside.

I need to figure this out today.  I want to be receptive to what he suggests... .

I think: why not? It's an interesting step.

Let him come over to the house you used to share and be surrounded by all your pets. Let him remember what he used to have... .

Be very cool, juju. Keep it light and friendly. No deep discussions. Don't have any romantic expectations. Use the skills you have learnt and observe.

Good luck!

Hi fam,

He forgot, or something, he was w a new client, and she wanted nite pictures, he lost track of time... .

So after waiting for him for 15 min at our agreed upon place, I texted him, am going home, have a good nite.  He called about 10 min later, profusely apologizing, he lost track of time, new client, nite pics, etc.  Would I forgive him   ?
I said sure.  I forgive you.  He said you are just being nice.  I said, well I really forgive you.  Stuff happens.  I get it. 

He was like, I want to see when me and the dog can come over and visit.  I said, sure, let's talk about that... .I was detached from the whole thing, it felt very good.

I felt great, not obsessing, forgiving, and the move along.  It's up to him at this point.

My commitment is no chasing.

Thank you family for your support.!

j

Do you guys think I handled last nite correctly.  Am wanting to support our time together, not make him wrong, and life happens.  I wasn't upset, didn't blame, jade, or anything negative.

Also, I want to have the coffee time, guess next week, and we need to talk about the animals visit... .
Just because he got into chaos, doesn't change what him and i agreed to do, right?

bumping up, do you all think I did the right thing... .

 guess what i wanted was experience around disordered behaviour, I maintain my boundary, it does sound good that he apologized, profusely, and it was kind of a push that he didn't remember soon enough to let me know he wouldn't be at coffee... .was that a test.? The old me would have gotten upset.  I did not get upset, wasn't mad, and accepted graciously his apology... .

I know it's all big picture.  He hasnt done this before... .oh well.  Thank you, j

Hi

So he did come to our house, the backyard gate was unlocked, he had texted me when I was taking a nap, he was here, got the tools, thank you.

I see that he CAN do some things, when he needs to. 

I feel like am, again, way more invested, than he is.  Is it his BPD.  Is it his core personality.  Is it his addictive person ality.  YES.

Any insight is appreciated.  J

Hey... .one thought that is likely going to help you with "radical acceptance".

Look the bold stuff.  What is that wasn't part of the thinking anymore.

Would that help you take a clearer look at the relationship. 

"I am more invested that he "appears" to be"  Don't give him passes or reasons, just acknowledge what appears to me "right now". 

I would also check your thinking that "if he didn't have (fill in the blank) then our relationship would be (fill in the blank)

Thoughts?

FF

Thanks for the insight.

Radical acceptance.  I have the idea, and am not always present to it.  The idea hasn't made its way into my heart.  Yet.

Im not a fan of apologies, especially when it comes to stuff that is easily avoidable in the first place.

Was it too hard for him to call or text you to say he would be late, or could not make it?

A similar thing happened to me once,early into the r/s where she arranged to meet up with me to go out to dinner., she had phoned me early in the day when I had plans to do other things, but I changed my plans because I wanted to be with her.

I always phoned her before picking her up from hers because she felt more relaxed about that. This time she didnt answer. I went to hers and she never answered the door. So I stayed for about 10 minutes, I was hungry and annoyed, but she had always been very good with meeting up and had an OCD thing about punctuality, which was fine because Im a reliable person. I left and texted her saying "where are you, im waiting"
I then got a text back 15 minutes later when I left saying "sorry, I dont want to go out tonight, just want to stay in and relax"

I texted back saying "well im at the petrol station (nearby), I dont mind at all, ill just have dinner by myself, please dont worry about it"

3 mins later, "actually I think it would be good to go out, I was just tired from smoking (cannabis)"

In other words, she (rightly) realised that I wasnt happy about it, would never have wanted to see her again based on "change of mind for the sake of changing mind" I now see it was a boundary pushing test. She made the arrangements then wanted to see how id react to a last minute cancellation.

Either that, or she made the arrangements then in the meantime, made arrangements with someone else and couldnt be 2 places at once, so tried cancelling me.

who knows, the whole lesson from the story is, if your ok with running after this guy, sitting around for when he chooses or doesnt as that case was, to care enough to even let you know he was going to be late, then thats your choice.

No one can answer your question if you did well, because its based on our own attitudes. Some people are easy going about that sort of thing, im not, I sort of realise that time is valuable and this was the only time in the whole r/s that she pulled that trick off, because the behaviour was nipped early in the bud. Ive realised that most of what went wrong in the r/s resulted from not confronting things I didnt like early on. Its not easy to backtrack later once you have already allowed transgressions to take place.

if your ok with being the run-around and placated by a "oh sorry about that", and feel that letting him away with it is some technique that keeps everyone happy, thats your choice, I did similar, it never worked out well in the long run. Always try and look at the long term perspective of the things you are doing with him at the moment, are you trading momentary "keeping the peace", or "momentary success baby steps" (apparently) that are only building up for long term problems and what were once seen as successes will evaporate away to reveal what looks to me as appeasing his behaviour and probably testing your resolve. He gave this away with the

"oh your not really sorry, your just being nice"

there is no point in pretending your not bothered by it, at the same time gritting your teeth in disappointment. Next time he has less guilt of being late because he can say, oh whats wrong, I thought you were always easy going about time keeping.  

Interesting to hear Cromwell.  Thank you for sharing.

We are creating from nothing, we can't go back to our former r/s.

Thursday nite, I got to coffee first, our agreed upon place was closed for painting.  I texted him to let him know, he called me, asked if xxx would be ok w me.  He said, and i was leaving early to be there on time!

So we had a really nice meet up, he was there before me.btw.

He sat next to me this time.  He is getting closer... .
He wore the t-shirt from a concert we went to a yr ago, nice touch!

I am getting healthier and my thinking is getting healthier.

Thank you.  All of you here.  You have been my family.