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Out of frustration I broke up with my gf she’s not borderline she display anxiety / obsessive compulsive traits. We started seeing other last August and the honeymoon lasted until last month a friend of mine had to point out that the honeymoon was over - I couldn’t tell I felt like there was a shift in the r/s.

She said she had a lot on her plate when I asked what changed and she said that she else’s taking care of herself that’s what I was feeling. She’s a single mom she’s separated for almost two years going through a divorce. Her mom had major surgery a couple of months ago they had removed a large malignant tumor she’s supposed to be checked fi cancer cells.

We had a long cold winter I have my kids one week on one week off. The weeks that I didn’t have my I spent it with her she wanted to see each other every night, sleep over on weekdays and weekends usually I passed on the weekdays and sometimes I slept over on the weekends. She’s anxious if I was late leaving the gym to go to her place she would wait until her S5 would go to bed and then ask me to come over and sometimes she’d call 5 minutes asking me if i has left. She’d ask me come over the days that I had the kids my oldest is 12 she’s used to watching the kids I’d step out for an hour I felt bad. There were some nights where I wanted to leave her place at a reasonable time and she would ask me to stay i was thinking that it’s going to catch up to her.

She works split shifts she’d usually get at 400-430 and do a work out routine start work at 7 her break from 9 to 11 then she was off at 6 I hate split shifts. Sometimes I’d have the weekday off see her in the morning then see her in the evening. I should of put on the brakes and defended my boundaries and say you have to go or say I can’t spend time with you to give her space.

She said that I complained because of the time that she wasn’t giving me when she started seeing me once or twice a week starting 4-6 weeks ago. I started to push more and become more clingy because I felt like I was losing her. I’m confused she wanted to spend all of her time with me it became a routine and I wanted to show her I know bed so I aient as much time as I could which was also clinging behaviour due to my fear of abandonment.

I wanted to know what direction we were going I asked her and she wouldn’t answer instead of taking the hint that she didn’t know or didn’t want to i kept asking again and then I started frustrated and angry because I want getting an answer so I threatened to break up with her and she said she didn’t mind and I said it shows that you dont care if you’re not fighting for the r/s. She said yes let’s move in together then I said really then she said the she said let’s have an open r/s I said what are you talking about? She said forget that she said that.

So last week that she said that couldn’t give me her 100% and it’s not fair to me he can’t give me what I want which is eventually at some point integrated the two families and that I should find alone better than her but it’s up to me with what I want if I wanted to stay with her she said one thing is for sure I love you.

I should point out that she’s 32 and I’m 44 at my age you do things quicker because you know that time is limited. She said that she sees a pattern and she doesn’t think that I couldn’t wait for her without getting frustrated and angry. I apologized and I didn’t meant to break up her and that I should have waited two weeks like she had suggested and to my surprise she wanted to stay broken up.

This was on Sunday she said nothing has changed just our status instead of gf / bf were friends that are supportive of each other. She came over to my place today and she kept her jacket on so I thought she is not staying long. I have couches side by side in my living room she sat in one and I sat on the other. She was going through her phone ordering a dress for her mom for Mother’s Day then she came over to my couch sat beside me her leg up against mine and she was showing me these beautiful Indian dresses on the site and I notice she kept talking she was anxious. She then started hugging me and we were hugging for two minutes not letting each other go. We broke up over whatsapp we didn’t see each fit a few days so I though maybe these hugs are her saying good bye? She said that she had to leave to get groceries and I asked her if she wanted to do something sometime she said sure when can i come over on the weekday again I said that I’m available after work or on the weekends we’re seeing each next Friday at my house. I thought that she doesn’t want want me at her house. We talked on Whatsapp a little today I gave her her space or I’m trying to be more conscious about it and I’m trying to be less clingy.

I decide that I want to stay in the relationship and wait for her to sort out the negative feelings she sounds confused and wait for her to come back and talk when she’s ready?

I'm so sorry Mutt, that you are going through something like that.
It must be hard to just have your feelings with things shifting this way and that way. 



I can't tell for sure the answer to your question. I know this moment will pass. Clarity may come with a little time.

I'd say pay extra attention to your feelings. Don't rush now.
Do something nurturing for yourself. 

 

Hi Mutt,

How are you feeling about this breakup now? Was it the right thing for you? A decision you may later revisit?

I hear ya on the age stuff - I'd like to have this part of my life more settled, stable, and certain.

Sorry you are having a hard time!

wishing you peace in your heart, pearl.

Hang in there, Mutt, these are challenging situations.  It sounds like you are listening to her and thinking about how your behavior impacts her (e.g. perhaps crowding her).  You may or may not choose to adjust your behavior.  In a relationship, we tend to measure ourselves with reference to the person we are with.  What feels crowding to her may not feel crowding to another woman.  So listen to yourself as well.  It sounds like you are open to more contact with her, to continue to process things, be friends, and see where things go?

WW

Mutt I'm sorry to hear that it came to this.  It's good news that you have arranged to see one another and it sounds like that's a week away, so you both have some space and time to think. 

My advice would be to occupy yourself so that you are able to let her have some time to weigh up what she wants without giving in to trying to influence her.  I know that's hard, but if she comes to a conclusion independently it is more likely to be one that she is sure of.  How are you feeling?

Love and light x

Hello Mutt
Here I am reading your post again this morning.


I see the words divorce and cancer in your description of what she's going through right now. Those are high stress events in anybody's life. It's difficult to have a sense of control in one's life when these things happen. Being a single mom doesn't help make these transitions any easier.

Honestly she might be talking about her own truth about her own emotional availability right now. From an external point of view, that would not mean the whole story about her. From a one to one point of view, I see the importance for you to figure out your own truth about your needs right now.

Pearl and Harley Quinn have a good point about checking your feelings up.

WW has a good point about listening to yourself.

I know that when we are moving on into our new life after a r/s with a pwBPD, we know what we don't want, but it doesn't mean that it's easy to figure out what we actually want. It's more of a process. We also need to create new ways in our approach to the life we want.

Good point. I didn't think about that she has two life events going on at the same time. Divorce is brutal I can't imagine having a sick parent with cancer on top of that. I feel selfish for not being able to see this because I was focused on the r/s I was focused on myself.

Mutt, sorry you feel selfish. It's something we all do in the midst of the action. Communication could be imperfect also. Don't beat yourself up about it.
 

I know the feeling of feeling selfish. I can relate to that. It's a part of our life story it seems. We need someone who loves us for who we are, and than we feel selfish when we see the reasons when they stop giving us what we need. Maybe not the love, but _____________?...

Even though she is going through that much, your needs still count.

Thanks for walking me through this braveSun. I told her that even though she has a lot on her plate she could try to find a solution. She said that she couldn't which I don't believe because she's smart.

Everything was done on her terms, I felt like she was trying to hide me, we were either at each others houses we never went out to a restaurant or a movie. She was worried that one of her neighbors might see me and tell her mom back in India. She said that she didn't want anyone at work to know because she didn't want drama. When I asked about not going out in public she said that she's going through a divorce. It's controlling I always thought we'll see a bit later maybe things will change.

She did this for herself if that's her pattern. Maybe she wanted to be with me to relieve some stress and loneliness. Maybe after the honeymoon phase she saw something that she doesn't like. It feels invalidating.

May I ask you Mutt, what feels the most invalidating to you?

What feels the most invalidating is that she didn't treat me like a proper boyfriend.

OK.
Like in 'not allowing you two to be seen as couple in public'? Or is there something more than that?

Correct. Just that.

I'm sorry Mutt. I can see how this may cause you to feel invalidated. After all, you are her boyfriend, unless you two decide otherwise. And when we feel a little left out, it's normal to wonder about the status of the relationship. With what you are going through right now it's not surprising.

Do you know of any cultural reasons she might need to hide your relationship from the public. I read that she didn't want people to know about it from work, you mentioned drama, and with the divorce situation I wonder. Have you asked her about this before?

These 2 things are not mutually exclusive, both can be right for her.



I like WW's advice but keep things in balance.

For a long time I did only the above... .how could I make my partner happy, comfortable, satisfied, stay with me... .

I never considered what I needed and was I getting it?  Consider not only what she needs but what you need too, because if you don't you end up in a really lopsided situation that is bound to fail.  It's about a partnership and compromise. 

Hiding your relationship in the shadows doesn't feel right to me.  There are a lot of logical reasons given but to me hiding and being secretive isn't healthy.  To me you want to be proud of your partner and them of you and you want to share your happiness with family and friends.

Panda39

I see what you’re saying Panda39 and that is what I was doing I was soothing her anxiety. What I want is to focus on myself and let her go if it’s meant to be she’ll come back. It just doesn’t feel right for me to wait or hope that she comes back I want to heal as quick as possible.

I think that I was a transition for her because of the pressure from her mom and the divorce. She’s a transition until the woman, she was the first gf after my divorce.

Hey Mutt

How is it going with your self-care? Do you have a plan for the next couple of weeks? Just checking.

Hi braveSun,

Thanks for checking in that's really nice. We had an argument because I asked if she was seeing someone. She wanted to stay friends and continue to talk to me through whatsapp which I had agreed upon hoping that maybe we could get back together.

I mentioned earlier that everything was done on her terms - she's self centered and I can understand that some of that comes from anxiety and the life events that she's going through but if she wants to keep me as a friend it's serving her not me. I still feel for her she wanted this I didn't.

~ She might be feeling guilty
~ She might be missing me
~ She might of valued both the friendship and the romantic r/s and she wants to keep the friendship

I decided that I need to stop talking to her I need to get over her we'll see what happens later because I don't torture myself and miss an opportunity for someone else. If I keep things going the way that they are now she has control. I'm going to stop chatting today.

I created an account on a dating site and it was amazing the amount of women that wanted to meet me at I'd say thirty since I created it Friday night. This has never happened to me. I'm currently speaking to a couple of women. I spoke to my mom we talked about it she didn't suggest to do it right away  but she said that I'm ready and you'll find someone that will give you what you want.  

I went through a transformation I've been working out for three years if my ex doesn't want me there are a lot of other women interested. To answer your question what started this transformation is I went to my MD about depression / anxiety three years ago, to finally treat it and take care of it anyways he had me see a social worker that gave me a month pass to the YMCA and suggested to exercise to feel better. His advice was "If you have nothing better to do go to the gym"

I went out with coworkers on Friday, again on Saturday to celebrate a coworkers birthday and I'm going to the gym it's really nice out I'll do cardio outside for the fresh air and to regulate my feelings.

 |iiii  Sounds like you are taking care of it. Good news!...
         Keep up the cardio outside. That sounds like just the right thing.

I also like that your mom didn't suggest to do it right away. 

Sounds like a good strategy.


Sounds like there could be multiple red flags with her:
1.  Just thinking that if she felt no one could see you both together in public, that she wasn't truly ready to start dating. Someone emotinally ready to date wouldn't want to keep you a secret.

2.  What's the real reason for not wanting her mom to know she was dating you?  Was it a matter of her just dating anyone?  If you aren't of the same ethnicity, could that have been an issue for her mother? (Even if she may not want to admit it).

3. Why would seeing someone from her work, at a show or restaurant, cause drama for her?  Unless you go to places around the corner from her place of employment, the chances are slim that you would enounter someone from her work.

4. The fear of the neighbor making reports to her mom in India is a rather strange situation.  How is it that this neighbor has such power in her life?

I hope you enjoy meeting new people and venturing out in public.

Hi No-One,


That’s a good observation.


She’s been separated for a year and half and the divorce proceedings had started and her mom would pressure her everyday to go back to her husband. Divorce is just not something that you do. The divorce rate is 1.1 percent and it brings shame to the family.

Her mom knew about me, that’s what my exgf said I don’t know how she knew if I had to guess maybe she was trying to hurt her mom and told her she was going out with a white guy.


You’re right it really is exaggerated  When i first met her I was wondering what type of mental illness does she have? I have major depressive disorder, anxiety disorders panic GAD. I thought is she BPD, DPD, depression and anxiety what is it? She certainly had traits of an anxiety disorder with obsessive compulsive and other anxiety. I’d also say that she had traits of depression as well and she’s a hermit. I never thought that that she’s a hermit until I typed it down. She seldom goes out if she does she goes to gudwara on the rare occasion she visited friends.

Id also say that she’s in survival mode surviving from crisis to crisis work > home > work > home and just repeats the cycle.

The last thing that I said to her early yesterday morning was that I called her selfish. If someone called me selfish I'd expect them to repair the r/s it's been 24 hours since we last communicated and she sent me a voice message on whatsapp 14 secs long mid morning today so she had to say something I haven't listened to it, the fact that she me a message shows that she cares and she's probably worried because she expected me to message her what would she want? She made it clear that she can't give me what I want if I had to guess it something to do about her maybe shes looking to sooth her anxiety?

I think that I know what her message may be about. I know she means it when she says she'll never be able to give me what I want, she was angry when I asked her if she was seeing someone, the last thing that I said to her was that she was selfish, I'm not blocked, she sent it right before her break ended if I listened to it then she's busy working and not available she doesn't want to talk, 14 secs is long enough to have something to say. We haven't been apart long enough for her to lose the bad feelings about me, I think that she probably doesn't want to have contact with me.

I was wrong I listened to the message she’s probing she says that she’s just saying hi.

I didn't reply to her first message now she sent me another message asking me if I can come over tonight if I have the time. What do she want to talk about it? I know that she's not going to want to have sex she lost interest a couple of months ago. She wants to talk about something.

Hi Mutt, how is it going?  Did you end up going over?

WW

I thought about it I didn’t talk here from Sunday morning up to 5 o’clock in the afternoon on Monday. What’s next is she going come to my house or is she going to completely back off? Out of respect for her I respect need and I told her I’d come by.

She was happy when I got there she was excited she asked if I ate I said I’ve had liquid calories all day it’s hard to eat with braces but I’ll cook something when I get home she offered popsicles we ate those her place was so hot

I think she was scared to lose me we talked I told her I missed her she misssed me too she said that I should find someone else she asked if wanted to go on the mattress she has a futon and a mattress on her floor we kissed and made out. She was tired and it was almost 9 already I left and went home.

She sent me a message this afternoon she watches my son at the daycare the youngest and he gives her a hard time he’s disrespectful and talks back. I said that I’m sorry that he’s giving you a hard time I notice a pattern he is like this at my house I get the complaints on the week that he’s at uBPDexw house.

I Googled how to discipline a dysrespectful child that talks aback I found some good information online I found why he’s acting the way that he is and I’m going to put more effort with and the oldest transgender D12.

I get a call tonight and we talked I could tell that she had been crying her mom is going to go through chemotherapy. Medicine is a business in India she has a SIL that has a cousin in Florida that’s a cancer specialist she’s going to send an email if her mom’s paperwork to get a second opinion.

Her family was supposed to Canada now they’re staying in India she can’t go back because her STBX could prevent her from flying back. I told her that her STBX wanted to get the divorce done quickly I said you might have to concede something but you might be able to use his impatience to your advantage and go visit your mom when the divorce is finalized in Canada.

We talked for quite awhile. I think that she likes getting support from me. She says that don’t look too far in the future just in the present now. I’ve waited four years after my exuBPDw left me that’s reasonable I’ll move on and I think that we’re both emotionally mature enough to handle a friendship.

It makes me sad but it wasn’t going to work from the start for various reasons. She’s special to me, she entered my life in a transitional phase. She’s going through very difficult things she’s afraid to commit she said she brought her son into this mess and it’s his turn and she devotes herself to give him a good education. It’s not my fault that she’s afraid to commit.

Every other ex left having already started another r/s before mine was done. I told my ex last night that you know to sooth my anxiety is it because of your mom? She has anxiety she said that she has a lot of empathy for me she’s been in my shoes . If anything staying in contact is helping each other’s anxiety. I’m not going to get stuck here though I’ll keep pluggung away self care with the gym and I’ll find someone eventually maybe not tomorrow it’s not going to be like the long break I took with my exuBPDw.

Hi Mutt,

It might not always be obvious, but take it from someone who has been there - being involved with someone going through a divorce is really challenging. I thought when I met my SO that his was over and done with, but it wasn't. It turned into an even bigger drama than either of us could have anticipated and dragged on for many years. Eight years later and they are still sorting out legal troubles! (scream!)

I don't know how many dinners were affected by him texting her the entire time, or having to put out fires with her and his kids.

I think it is really important to set expectations. She has children, legal troubles, a mom with health issues. It's natural she has less time and energy for your relationship. It may or may not have a personal component in terms of you.

Are you able to do things to help take the pressure off of her rather than increase it... .without totally sacrificing yourself and your needs in the process?

take care, pearl.

We talked and decided to be FWB you're right she's just not in a place in her life right now where a romantic r/s is feasible it doesn't mean that she doesn't get lonely and wouldn't mind companionship from time to time. As a single dad with shared custody of 3 kids it's complicated and it gets lonely we just went through a brutal winter and it would of been tougher without her.

She messaged me last night to come over so I went over we talked for a bit and then we had sex it felt fine for me it didn't feel awkward, we know each other well this would be different if it was a stranger. If I was younger I don't think I would of had the maturity to be able to do this.

My needs I need to put in a lot of effort with D12 she thinks that she's a boy she doesn't act like it I think that she's looking for attention she has a refferal to a gender P she's really mixed up, the middle one is doing good the youngest is becoming is really rude lately with back talking and being difficult so he needs attention too. I have some other things that I want to take care of this will give me the time and I want to focus on the gym sometimes I'd rush through to get to her place on time.

I hate dating I removed myself from POF last night, we're not in a commited r/s but I can't date and be a FWB at the same time that's my boundary.

The youngest is telling me a story with his behaviours lately he's not getting attention at the other house he's probable getting yelled at by mom and her bf I think that it's becoming more chaotic over there being a single dad is challenging my kids really need me right now and I'm fine with being a FWB for now. I used to think of r/s as black and white I think that there are shades of grey because sometimes we're in a space where you can't fully commit to a r/s.

Mutt,

It sounds like you are thinking about your needs, adjusting your expectations, and considering having a "friends with benefits" relationship with her for companionship and mutual support, while you each focus on what your kids need.  Does that about size it up?

WW

Thanks Wentworth that sounds about right I saw your post last and it made me think about what i want. I can do both at the same time find someone and focus on the kids I’m in the best shoe of my life I have a lot of energy. I keep thinking about what my mom said that she’s a transition, practicing my r/s skills with her.

Things are fine the way they are today. I know that she doesn’t want to lose me and I think that she gets lonely I’ll go the entire day without talking to her she’ll text me when she’s about to put her S5 to bed. I was in the elliptical last night and I didn’t see her messages she called me because I didn’t answer.

A friend pointed something out the need to know what’s going is typical with anxiety.

That's a great way to put it!  Before, you two were on a different page.  The things you were concerned about, like being open about your relationship, are pretty darn important for a long-term serious romance (i.m.h.o.), but less important for a transition relationship.  I like the idea of "practicing r/s skills."  That's a great way to put it.  As long as you both have compatible expectations, the time with her can be a real confidence booster.  Beware, though, if one of you is ready to move out of the transitional phase before the other, or one of you begins to develop deeper non-transitional feelings, it could get painful again.


I think any person naturally wants to know what's going on, and if they don't, it can lead to anxiety.  

WW

The other day she said she missed me I said that missed her too it was confusing she asked me if I wanted to come over last night I said yes.

I was at her place for just over two hours we talked about some serious things about her life and then we had sex. It feels different and it feels good it’s more intense and I’m not going through the motions of a r/s.


I feel like I’m finally starting to make sense. I said earlier that she missed me I don’t that she’s me she misses having a bf and our r/s is done so I think those feelings come from that.

If she wanted she could have me but she’s not choosing to. I felt nervous last night I turned off the vibration notifications on my phone because I’m talking to about 4 women. I have a date with one tomorrow I don’t know if it quantifies as a date we’re meeting for tea at least we’re meeting she’s the one that I’m mist interested in.

My exgf said to move in because she said that she’ll never be able to give me what I want. I have to take her on her word. She’s younger less experienced it’s not fair to here she’ll meet more men Im older it’s okay if you want to speed things up a bit.

I had asked her last week if she was seeing someone and she got angry it’s none of my business and that goes both ways. I went to her place on a  Saturday night on a long weekend I don’t think that she has anyone else. We know each other that took time she doesn’t want to lose what we had if I wanted to I could set boundaries in myself and get out of this friend zone two things will happen either we’ll get back together or I don’t settle for a friendship and I move on and honestly I don’t want to lose her as a friend.

I went to a school that mostly white which was sad she thought me a lot about her culture she travelled all around the Middle East for her H’s work and travelled all around India. It’s different too because I’m more mature and I’ve changed it’s not black and white where we can’t face each other because we did some shameful thing.

I’ve been talking to this other for about a week she has a four year old girl she has shared custody but he did it so he didn’t have to pay child support she pays child support he’s taking her to court for 200k she said he has narcissistic qualities I told her that I have a difficult ex too we have some similarities. My point is if and when I find someone or she might find someone too my boundary is that I can’t sleep with more than one woman at a time and when that day comes I don’t have to say it bluntly. My ex did say things bluntly like I do I’ll just say that I can’t have sex with her anymore.

A r/s is equal transactions I know what I’m in right now and she is a good friend that does me favors. I don’t feel like I’m giving too much of myself I’ll reapect her needs I need to look after mine too.


Good point WW

Mutt, thanks for the updates.  It sounds like you're being thoughtful about how things progress, and are out their meeting folks and learning.  Keep us posted!

WW

It’s also going to create competition  :)  She asked if she call tonight I said yes I was watching Black Panther with the kids. She got an email back from the cancer expert in Florida. Her brother didn’t send all of the paperwork I can’t recall what type of cancer that she said her mom has its stage 3 anyways it’s recommended that she take chemotherapy her mom would need a scan every three months which sounds like an aggressive cancer it mentioned that the tumor is aggressive and so are the cells.

She went to visit a friend today and I told her that I was taking the kids to the library and the splash park she went to the library and met me there the kids have never been introduced she just saw me we’ve done in the past it telegraphed that she missed me. At the end of the call she called me babe Freudian slip? We just laughed I’m sorry if I’m jumping around a bit I listened her she said the cancer sounds scary and she said her mom is s good woman, prayed all of the time and you never know what’s going to happen.

I told her that it’s normal to think about your mortality when you have someone really close facing a serious illness. They’re going to see another specialist in India and get another opinion her mom from the sounds of it may not be taking the chemo therapy. My ex sounds scared i just listened. She sent me a message on WhatsApp and said “Oh Mutt I miss you for sure and I love you” with a kissing emoticon which she hadn’t sent in weeks to me I thought that she wasn’t sending them because she had fallen out of love.

I have a feeling she might change her mind. I could be wrong there obvious signs that I didn’t see my mom said that you can’t analyze everything. Maybe the distance did both of us some good with thinking about things objectively I’m not 100% certain that she’ll decide otherwise this is something that has her playing since early March she had time to think about this. Maybe she just feels vulnerable and feeling what she feels at that moment.

Hi Mutt,

I can imagine it is hard not to analyse when you have been receiving different messages from her.  You also sound like you're being understanding though and showing her you care by listening to what she's going through.    From what I understand, you are in a FWB situation and comfortable with that.  If she was to say she wanted to have a serious r/s with you, how would you feel about that?  Would you want to invest?   

Out of interest, what's the arrangement at the moment regards how much you're seeing one another?  I'm wondering if that is getting near to the amount you were seeing one another before, or whether you've both dialled it back.

Love and light x

That’s a good point too HQ.


I wouldn’t of given it a second thought a few weeks ago now I’d have to give it some thought for example I don’t want to go into something serious with her again only the be friend zoned a second time. I’d have to give her the benefit of the doubt and restart the relationship. I feel right now like she saying things that she doesn’t realize what she’s saying or she does but she doesn’t realize how she said that she knows I love her and that my love gives her a sense of security because someone cares about her.

When I brought this to a friend a few weeks ago I think that he called it right - she doesn’t know what she wants.

Starting about the beginning to mid March is when we started seeing other less about twice a week I didn’t see her for a full week and she invited me over twice in the last week which is about the same. The communication is different than two weeks ago because there’s no sense of obligation and I didn’t know what direction to go I had to process it a little bit I didn’t really want to talk. It’s different going from bf to friends.

A few months back when I told her that I was upset because we weren’t out in public she explained she’s going through a divorce I get that if she said that she wanted to a serious r/s then there’s going to have to compromise, I said restart the r/s and that would be a part of that. I will admit that lately I’ve given her a lot of space she usually comes to me when she wants to hook up I’ll probably approach her too. These last statements make me feel confused I can put that aside for now and just focus on being friends with having to ask her what she meant I still feel like she’s saying how she feels in the moment, I’m sure that she felt resells low after the bad news about her mom and that I uplifted her a little bit by showing compassion I still shouldn’t red too much into it where I should really be looking at is her actions she’s been pulling away for weeks that’s stopped once we reached friendship and for now it’s staying there i have a hard time believing that she wants more. I do feel like she likes my company I know that I help with her loneliness ( that goes with me too ) and I help her stay grounded.

If I go back to before we met she started getting interested in me about three months or two months that’s when she popped up on my radar. I thought that I saw her looking at me then I thought about it if I mention that to someone I’ll probably get different responses it means that she likes your or that she just likes to stare  What attracted her to me and I think that my mom is right us my r/s with the kids charmed her.

As everyone on this site that follows me or knows me for awhile knows that I don’t judge I leave that to god. Her culture is patriarchal and most of the men ( 90% ) don’t have any hands on with the kids she’s educated, brilliant and she worked too she was expected to take care of all the household duties she worked just as much as her H.

This isn’t a debate it’s a fact in different cultures I think that she liked seeing a dad taking care of the kids on his own I do t know if she wanted a part of that with her child she did mention when we first met that she said that I didn’t care about her son I wanted to make a point that I’m not rescuing I didn’t say that I didn’t correct her either.

With that being said, I’d give her a second chance there aren’t any deal breakers for me the first go around I also have a strong feeling that if that we’re to happen it’s a way off because she’s about half way to three quarters through her divorce and her mom is sick with a life threatening illness her mom is also in denial she doesn’t think that she’s stage 3 there’s only 1 stage left stage 4.

Mutt, if she doesn't know what she's want, give her the space to work that out by going slow on any romance, but OK to support her as a friend.  When you go slower, you smooth out the ups and downs and protect yourself.  If there are big ups and downs it will also make it harder for her to figure out what she wants.  If your friend support is steady and you hold back on romance while she processes things, it will be less wear and tear on both of you.

WW

I appreciate your advice WW. She’s confusing me the other day she said that she really misses. E and loves me then today she says that I should go for my hairdresser - she said she’s a hot woman you should go for it. She said that she can’t handle much stress that comes with r/s’s right now.

Maybe when she says that she really misses and loves me she’s just expressing what she feels and not necessarily meaning that she wants to reunite. It’s tough getting yanked back and forth so I’ve continued dating other people I was on a date yesterday it went well but she wasn’t i retests in me. I’m talking to another woman we’re meeting each other next week when we don’t have our kids.

I’ve never really done this but we set boundaries she was clear that we’re done I also understand that you usually don’t break up in the first break up. I’m just glad that I’m not hung up on her and unaware that I’m stuck in an unreciprocated situation or friend zone. Sometimes it feels like she’s trying to pull then I feel bad but she doesn’t what she wants. I give her space she comes back on her own and she misses me.  

You’re right let her sort this out on her own and I can be supportive but kibosh the romance.

Mutt, I think this is an excellent observation.  It took me a long while to understand that expressing feelings is not the same as expressing intent, and a woman can have contradictory, but valid, feelings about me in her head at the same time.  She is likely frustrated by this; it's not comfortable to have contradictory feelings.  So avoiding the urge to push her for resolution, and allowing her the safe space to express her contradictory feelings and work through them on her own time, is a "good friend" thing to do.  Keep checking in with yourself on your own feelings.  Great that you're getting out there and dating!

WW

I just wanted to give an update it's just over a month since we broke up and she's been acting a little differently for the last couple of weeks?

I decided to stop dating this week because I can't be seeing one person and be dating. I also felt like my uBPDex ( there's no judgement from me if you're a serial monogamist ) because it felt like I was creating an exit plan in case things didn't work out with my exgf.

She's been saying things on whatsapp like "you know that I really love you". She's been both greeting me and saying good by at her door, we'll hug and kiss and say I love you I had noticed a couple of months when I had missed the signs the first time that she wasn't greeting me when I got to her house ( I have a key I let myself in ) I had a day off on Monday and usually we'd spend time together if I got a weekday day off, she works split shifts so she gets a two hour break in the morning and she invited me over to her place. She's been saying that I look skinny and she said I'm sorry that I haven't cooked for you. I told her that I got braces installed last month and I was getting adjusted to it and I found it hard to eat and I'm not eating her Indian food too. I didn't tell her that it wasn't for her to worry because she broke up with me, she felt guilty.

I've also noticed that when I sit on her couch with her she was sitting on the opposite side now she sits close to me, right beside me. The other day I was talking on the phone with her and at end of the conversation we both paused for a few seconds and she said I love you, she was waiting for me to say it, I said I love you after she she did.

I told her that I'm confused are we back together and she avoided the question again I talked to a friend of mine about this and I thought that he described her actions very well if I press her she avoids the question and will say things like I don't like living in the future, I dno't know what's going to happen I living in the now. Anwyays my friend said that she is equivocating me. She's holding back her reasons, one thing is clear is that she doesn't want to divulge.

I gave it some thought because she's holding all of the cards and I can't make her be in a r/s with me, we're in a not relationship relationship if I had to label it. I set the boundary on myself and I told her that if there's another guy in the picture, I'm done she asked me why I said because of feelings, she acknowledged that and she said that she would tell me.

She just sent a message on Whatsapp that says "I miss you"

Hi Mutt,

Thanks for the update.  Things sound like they have progressed.  I like the way you describe it.  So how do you feel about being in a not relationship relationship?

Love and light x

I guess that I left out how I feel about it. I'm disappointed to a degree and I'm not surprised I knew from the beginning that this is going to be challenging because of the differences in cultures. I think that I knew that it was an impossibility when I met her I kept thinking about what my old T said to make sure to have some fun. It's made me think differently about r/s's they're not binary, I feel more comfortable with this than I did with fwb.

The break up was amicable we broke up like adults I think that she wanted the best of both worlds when we broke up there's something about me obviously that she likes and there is something that she doesn't like about me. It's frustrating and it hurts that she won't tell me what it is that she doesn't like about me, I think that she's trying to save my feelings but I think it's just her general nature if I ask something that is not superficial she avoids it. The selfishness hurts too but I can understand that, the selfishness could be a part of her personality, it could be due to depression and it could be due to concurring life events I didn't know her when things were calmer.

I'm not trying to stay in this hoping that she'll change her mind she is stubborn she displayed that by avoiding my question repeadetly. She does display that she cares, she's smart, I enjoy her company sometimes all we do is talk, we talk about her stuff then she'll turn to me and say so tell me. I can tell that she listens and she's genuine.

I think that what I'm struggling with is that this isn't about me, it's not because there is something wrong with me this has to do with her and her reasons for not committing. I wish that this would be less complicated I've come to understand that that's how life is it's not binary it's complicated.

She opened up tonight on her own I think that not pressuring her helped we talked for a couple of hours. She said that she doesn’t want to end up fighting she doesn’t want to live with a man. I told her that you think this way now but when you have more time behind you with your divorce you might think differently.

She initially didn’t want to have a r/s she said that she fell in love. This conversation actually started when she asked me if I was seeing someone else and snidely said That’s for me to tell a real girlfriend. She got angry it’s not the first time that she’s asked and kept trying to overstep that boundary but she made sense. She said I’m going to change your pattern and I said you can’t change my thoughts because isn’t about that it’s about values.

She wants me to meet other women and was asking why I want doing it I told her that I can’t do both at the same time she said she wants me to. I told her that this isn’t going to last forever there’s a beginning and an end and she didn’t agree with that she had a 10 year r/s with her ex boyfriend before her husband. He’s an actor in India and he’s married that’s when they stopped talking but she said you never know our r/s might resume later. She said you never know when you’ll need somebody you should leave in good terms.

She said I’ve never met anyone like you. I asked what is that supposed to mean she said nobody treated her the way I treated her. I thanked her she said that you deserve someone really special, you deserve really good things.

She said that I know that I’m selfish sometimes with how I think about my son Indian mothers are like that. She didn’t say this but she feels guilt about the divorce and she sacrifices herself for him. I told her that I didn’t give her enough credit because I know that she’s really intelligent but I thought that her blind spot might be that she doesn’t have a lot of awareness.

It felt good to hear it from her finally, this is the easiest break up that I’ve had and it was the most frustrating too because she was withholding I think that she waited until the right time. I told her I don’t regret that we met at all it was a lot of fun it’s not over between her and I I did leave confused again she called me after I left and again said that I love tonight felt like closure to me.

I feel good with what she had to say about me I was wrong it wasn’t about me it wasn’t about being clingy she admitted to having commitment issues, which saddens me I think that she’s selling herself short she doesn’t see that she’s a good mom, she can be very caring, she’s beautiful etc. I told her that it will happen when it happens things happen in their own terms I can’t force it.

What does this mean and what do you think is going on here? Is there a validation target here?

She’s told me in the past that if you don’t fight back you’re displaying that you don’t really care. She has said that she’s changed and used to have a bad temper in the past she did try to fight with me a couple of times over whatsapp and called me I fought back a little bit mostly didn’t JADE she was really trying to bait. She knows that she can get really angry maybe she’s trying to warn me? She said that it’s just too much stress. What do you mean by validation target?

What do you think is her core feeling here that might need to be validated?

This isn't an indecent,  this is a core feeling which is the basis for how she interacts with you.  What does she ultimately want in the r/s, or any r/s?

I think that she feels bad about herself, she told me that she told her actor bf that  if he wants to be with her that he has to defend her to his mom  which he never did his mom picked a wife for him and my exgf that age wasn’t very attractive she showed me the pictures.

Her mom put clef her husband and she told her parents that she didn’t want to get married to him. A month before the marriage but her father had already spent a large sum of money. Her mom explained to her that when she got married to her H that she didn’t know her H of his family and his family didn’t like her it took a couple of years for them to warm up to her.

My exgf felt rejected by her H for example she would beg him to have sex she believed that he was getting it elsewhere because he wouldn’t have sex with her, she talked about conflict with him and with him and his family he didn’t defend his wife either.

I think that she probably feels sorry for herself, she feels rejected and hurt. To answer your question in regards to me I did threaten to break up with her and I would think that she would feel rejected. What do you think? Do you think that I should validate her?

I would feel badly being treated like a piece of property. She started to reject you before in hey mind you could reject her,  perhaps? That may be part of it,  but you're also dealing with 2000 years of cultural inertia which has clearly defined roles of both sexes.