BPDFamily.com

Hi everyone,

Wentworth suggested I post here today, that several of you were very knowledgeable about the decision I am trying to make. Here’s a link to my last thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=323519.msg12968323#lastPost

I am in one state, away from friends and family, and my parents are in another. 16 hours drive. My parents are in their mid 70’s. I would like to be allowed to go home to be with them, with my S5. The law in my state, where I currently reside, where S5 was born, says I cannot move more than 59.9 miles from our current residence and share joint custody. That law will prevent me from moving back where I’m from. (No, not military, I met him online and married him and moved here to be with him).

S5 has special needs. I would like to homeschool him. My bachelors degree is music education. I taught school for nearly 10 years, but stopped just before I married my husband. I let my certification expire. I cannot go back to work professionally, without more schooling. My uBPDh refuses to pay for that, but he couldn’t stop the government from giving me loans for my masters degree. I will be done spring of 2020.

I have to do a 9 month internship, unpaid, to graduate. Without graduating, I’ll owe the government $50k without the professional  career to repay it. My uBPDh May let me do it in my parents state. If so, I can regain residential status in that state, file there, and possibly avoid the 59.9 mike rule.

Another horrible law in my state, we have to be married for 10 years for me to receive retirement alimony. Without making it to the 10 year mark, I’m only allowed 3 years of rehabilitation alimony. That’s a big difference financially. I haven’t workedd since 2009.

The law t recently changed in my state, to permit judges to use their discretion about awarding lifetime alimony. But my attorney says, they can, but since there’s no legal precedent, it won’t happen.

My uBPDh is escalating, in a major way. I think he is trying to get me to file first. So that he can claim victim status, not make it to the 10 year mark. Since we are church people, that also gives him clearance to remarry with ththe churches blessing.

I am headed to my parents next week. He is escalating. I don’t want him to file here while I’m there. That would be bad I want to make it to the end of my long term plan.

The latest today is, he had our S5 40 feet up in our oak tree, no harness, just for fun. Our S5 is missing on hand. He could have died. There is a history of dangerous parenting with him, but this is the worst.

Thoughts? Advice? I record him with an audio recorder. I kee notes in my phone, by date of incidents. It would take some doing to compile it.

Dig

Dig,

Can you please explain "retirement alimony?"  Does that just start after you are 65, or is it something that starts right away?

Is your phone backed up to the cloud?  Is the passcode secure from him?

Have you read, "Splitting," by Bill Eddy?

Does your state measure the 10 years as of the date of separation, the date of filing for divorce, or the date of divorce finalization?  I don't know about how that works.  It'd be nice if it was divorce finalization, since you can drag that out.  But I suspect that would be too good to be true.

WW

Normally my initial response would be,  "what's best for your child vis-a-vis keeping the other parent more in the child's life."

I climbed trees like that and worse... .when I was an early teen. 

Can you summarize the history of dangerous parenting for this board?

Hi WW, Turkish,

I’ll try to explain a little more. Retirement alimony is significant here because my husband works for the railroad. It’s really lifetime alimony, I think, which includes part of his railroad retirement. Guaranteed substantial monthly payments for the rest of my life.

The dangerous parenting... .let’s see if I can recall some incidents. A big one was the day of the solar eclipse. I couldn’t get viewing glasses, and had planned on staying inside, and watching it on tv. I didn’t know until the day of the eclipse that my husband would be home. When I realized he would be there, I discussed my plan to stay inside and not go out, and asked if he would agree to that, and not take our son out without glasses. Our son was 3 or 4 at the time. But when it actually started happening, he changed his mind. He wanted to take our son out to look at it, with no protective eyewear. I had to literally sit in the living room floor holding onto my son, preventing him from going out with his dad. In his defense, my husband says he wasn’t going to let him look up at it, but really, that involves my little boy obeying. At that age, he doesn’t obey 100%, and still doesn’t. So he was going to put his eyesight in danger if I hadn’t resort s to extreme prevention.

Other issues probably sound like parenting differences. My husband has a food and body image issue. So, I can’t count on my son not going hungry if I let daddy feed him. My husband refuses to let our son feed himself, and insists on feeding him one bite at a time while he plays, instead of sitting down and letting him feed himself. The food choice issue is, my husband leans towards all boiled vegetables. Little meat and tidbits if any of starch. So, typical kid fare of Mac and cheese, or cereal, my husband frequently denies him. I find that without grains and such, S5  ends up hungry.

Playing in the woods and stream where there are poisonous snakes in the summertime. I do not mind that in the winter, or if he were older,  but those things are out and plentiful in the summer. Our son is young enough and small enough, if he got bit, it’s likely he wouldn’t survive. One of the neighborhood dogs, a full grown golden retriever, weighing about the same as my son, didn’t survive a copperhead snake bite there a few summers ago. My husband could choose safer places to play. Last week, my husband and son came back from a walk in the neighborhood, and my son had a snakeskin. My son proudly announced, we’ve been playing in the ditch with the snakes.

The tree thing, I wouldn’t freak out so much if he were a teen, but he’s not. He is five years old and only has one hand that works and has a thumb. If he were to slip, he likely wouldn’t be able to hold on.

The medicine... .a few days ago, I was trying to give my son his medicine before bed. He was sick, and the doctor that day had advised what to give. One was an herbal capsule, that I had given him several times before, with no issues. My son wasn’t afraid to swallow it, until my husband intervened. Then he was scared of it, and I couldn’t give it. My uBPDh literally pushed me away from my son at the kitchen counter and blocked me from giving it. It was an oil of oregano herbal capsule, and is antiviral. Our son had an ear infection. This is significant, because he can only hear out of one ear. Meaning, we have to guard his hearing in the only ear he can hear out of. The ear infection is in his good ear.

Other special needs related medical issues that my son has, my husband doesn’t think the individual plan for our son is necessary. For example, one major issue is, he has the genetic mutation, MTHFR. According to his pediatrician, there is a super strong correlation between that mutation and vaccine injury. So, our son has only received vaccines up to  9 months old. His one year shots, now containing over 13 vaccines at once, could cause permanent brain injury. So, he will not have those. At age 5, he would stand a better chance fighting off measles than surviving the aluminum in the vaccines with his genetic mutation. My husband thinks this is nonsense. There are no pediatricians in our area/state that see patients who are not planning on being fully vaccinated. So, I drive almost 2 hours to near a large US city, where we see an integrated family doctor... .like Dr. Oz, on tv. The cost is comparable to an emergency room visit. But the level of care he receives, and their knowledge of his special needs, especially the MTHFR, is a fortunate blessing for us. My husband agrees sometimes, and at the beginning, but now that he wants to divorce, he wants to deny our son this amazing doctor. There’s nothing local like it.

There are other incidents, I just need to stop writing for a while, breakfast and morning time here.

One important last thing to mention, I’ve found a good attorney whose son also has special needs, some of them the same as my son. So he gets it. Thank goodness.

Thank you, everyone.
Dig

Dig,

Let us know if you've read "Splitting."  If not, you'll want to get a copy very soon.  There is a section on picking a lawyer.  You'll need a special kind of lawyer, someone who is "assertive," which means they can be a courageous advocate for you -- not a pushover but not unecessarily combative...   The book also talks about how the high conflict parent can manipulate the system around things like child custody evaluations, etc.

If you were divorced, what custody and parenting time arrangement would you think would be in the best interests of your son?

I know you want to stay focused on the legal questions on this thread, and I think the folks here can do that, but since we're talking about issues of custody and parenting safety it may be helpful to give folks a little more background.  Things you've said in the past about the toy helicopter, the songs your husband teaches your son, the cats, your missing wallet and challenges to your ability to further your education were examples you've brought up in the past that helped members understand your situation. 

WW

Hi Dignity & Strength,

I can identify so much with your story, my heart goes out to you. I'm glad you posted to the legal board -- preparing for and going through a high conflict divorce does require some ingenuity, and people here have walked in your shoes and can share collective wisdom. This board was my superpower during my own high conflict divorce. I waffled around for two years before finding my way here 6 years ago and hope what you learn here will help you in the same ways it did for me.

Wentworth asking you about the book Splitting. Are you able to get a copy? It's available on Amazon Kindle -- I know there are security issues with using Amazon accounts for some folks. Another option, if you have access to a library, is to request interlibrary loan. Or perhaps your parents could order it for themselves and read it, or have a copy for you at their home that you could read.

Bill Eddy, the author, is a former LCSW who was familiar with Axis II Cluster B. He went on to become a family law attorney and wrote a book for spouses trying to divorce someone with a Cluster B personality.

Like you, I was aiming for the 10 year mark. And like you, I was in graduate school while raising a young child (now 16). My son was recently diagnosed/labeled high-functioning autism and had a lot of sensory processing issues that my ex refused to "indulge," which created a lot of anxiety for our son (and me). Ex also would punish our dog to get to me, and moved my purse and keys, then accused me of being a space cadet.

Similar to your story, my ex also threatened to file for divorce, but then would flip back and focus on "improving" the relationship through controlling measures, like talking about taking away credit cards or access to joint accounts. He both wanted me to get my degree, and also wanted me to give it up. He liked when my career was successful, then would become utterly enraged by any positive attention that came my way.

You did a really good job describing the rock and a hard place you're in, with the 10 year mark on one hand, and the 60-mile joint custody law.

It sounds like you have consulted with a lawyer, but have not retained him?

When you consulted, with him, did he suggest filing for joint custody?

My ex was a former trial attorney and he inflicted a lot of damage on me financially and legally. Even so, I ended up with full custody of my son. It took a long time, probably longer than most because my ex could represent himself at no cost. I saw no other way than to do what was best for my son. It's the most powerful thing I've ever done and it helped me grow a titanium backbone.

You're not alone. Others are here to walk with you on this path.

 

LnL

While I don't know my state's law, I was married about 15.5 years when we separated and the final divorce decree was two days after our 18th anniversary.  Alimony was based on 18 years.  Another indication that the determining date might be the final decree is that you can't cancel the other's health insurance during a divorce but must be ended soon after the final decree.  Ask your lawyer how your state and its agencies handle the requirements for alimony and retirement benefits.  Probably best to confirm that with a second opinion.

I think bringing a 5 year old high up in a tree without safeguards would be considered endangering but I'm no authority.  If push came to shove, so to speak, how could it be proved?  In general, poor parenting behaviors can be considered 'actionable' if there is substantive child abuse, neglect or endangerment.

Another factor to consider is timing.  If he did this last week and you reported it you might get attention.  If this was 10 months ago and you report it only now, it might be considered 'stale' or not urgent.

As for filing in another state, I believe the USA has standardized residency for child custody issues as requiring 6 months before you can file.  Can you reside in the other state for that long without him filing first?

Another question, How determined will he be to parent?  Is he an involved parent now?  Right now he may be inclined to fight, perhaps to look good in the paperwork or thinking he can reduce child support payments.  Do you think he will lose interest over time and fade into the parenting background?

Wow everyone, thank you so much! I feel like the calvary has arrived! You are all so knowledgeable and well spoken. It makes me feel like I’m in better company than in my own home. Bless you.

I was able to get the kindle copy of splitting. Fortunately, access to my amazon, Paypal, etc., he does not have. Purse strings that control the money funding them, yes. But, he is fairly gullible, and a smal purchcase like that can easily be something for S5 in the bank statement. It’s really hard to read without it pushing my panic buttons. Deep breaths. I think that means my learning may be a tad ahead of the circumstances. That’s good maybe. I read thinking, surely this won’t happen. But, that’s wishful thinking. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. That’s gotten me through some tough calls over the years.

6 months of living in a state before filing first, that’s true of where I’m from and where I hope to return. It’s a guessing game. I hope he will allow me to go there to for my internship. I hope he doesn’t file before I am there 6 months. I hope I can file first there.

However, he is running out of control measures to tighten the reigns on. Each time I go home to my parents, he ups the anty. I wonder what elements are remaining, that he may choose to do before moving out and filing for separation? Regarding the pets, Already, he’s made the cat disappear for a few weeks one trip, and half poison him another. Regarding legal matters, he’s changed the executor or his will to exclude me, yet I remain the sole beneficiary. Another trip, he rerouted half of his paycheck to an account I don’t have access to.

Let’s see, some threats he hasn’t made good on... .1) upping his retirement contributions so there’s less money each paycheck. 2) upping the amount going into his account and only leaving me an “allowance” for groceries and other needs. 3) seeing/hiring an attorney 4) moving out 5) killing himself? Nah, he only joked about  that twice before. Surely not. ?
A friend warned me, he could pay off my van, get the note from the bank and have my name taken off the title... .pawn the title and not pay it, I’d have it repossessed somewhere in town and stranded... .? Geez. Sometimes I wonder if all this is truly real.

I need to pause, and I’ll and give details about the list wentworth mentioned filling you al in on. I’ll be back shortly.

 Hi everyone, this is from WW’s comment, to fill you in on the issues:

 

My husband IS going to fight to be an involved and active dad and may even file for sole custody, even though his job puts him away from home most of the time. Our son would then end up at my in laws full time while my husband keeps on call out of town hours.

This is bad. But I can see it coming. My father in law... .I know for a fact, he showered with his sons, their whole life, way past when they were little and that wasn’t appropriate. My husband and his brother, as grown men, shower together and sleep in  the same bed when they are back together at their parents. They are in their 40’s now. This leads to some of my husband’s behaviors in our marriage:

He isn’t interested in me, and told me so the day after our wedding. (I know, I should have had it annulled) He is obsessed with his body, keeping it the same size he was in high school. This means, he is restricts food and over exercises. These behaviors are indicative that my husband is likely an adult male survivor of sexual abuse. This is the level of dysfunction that has me in turmoil over the possibility of joint custody. I wouldn’t be allowed in my in laws house anymore. I wouldn’t be able to prevent this from happening to my son. And I can’t prove that it happened to my husband. And if I say anything about it in the legal arena, it makes me look hysterical and paranoid.

My husband’s other issues look mostly like oppositional defiant disorder, antisocial personality disorder, and some borderline/narcissism. All covert, controlled, and done with maliscious intent. This leads to the events WW mentions:

My husband doesn’t want my son to be happy with me or love me at all. He only wants him to love him. This is where the toy helicopter I gave my son for his 5th birthday comes in. My husband broke it, right after I gave it to him, while I was away from the house for a short meeting about our son’s kindergarten next year. My husband used the remote and crashed it over and over, from the floor to the ceiling, my son says. Along these lines, if I buy my son anything while we are out on errands, it makes my husband livid. He threatens to reduce the amount of money I have access to. So, we hide little toys in the van, and my son is only allowed to play with them when my husband is gone to work.

Covert lying, stealing, hiding things, twisting and denying his actions and words to me... .ugh. This one is hard. I’ve been wearing a small flash drive size recorder for several years now. This hopefully will help prove I am telling the truth.

He stole my wallet recently, with my entire safety plan hidden inside... keys, band cards, etc. that’s blown over and I was able to give reasons they were there.

The songs he has taught my son to sing... .are really messages to me, that are really veiled threats on my life. So, I sleep with Christmas sleigh bells, real ones, on my bedroom door. And a small runners glove with mace under my pillow.

So, flash drive recorder pinned in one bra strap and a key to my storage unit  that my parents pay for) in the other. When he’s really scary, I wear a concealed travel pack around my chest, under my clothes,  with a small spare cell phone, house key, van key, and $100 bill.

If you want to look them up, the songs he’s taught S5, there ar 3 so far:
1) the walrus and the carpenter, from Alicenin Wonderland. It’s a poem, where thebwalrus talks some oysters out of the water by promising them a grand life, and when they have followed him, he kills them and eats them. Which is, by the way, a metaphor that mirrors how my husband and I met- online, and he talked me out of my hometown, and into a life with him. Just before the walrus eats the oysters, he says “the time has come”. That’s the part my H loves for my son to recite.

2) I’m so cute, a song by Frank Zappa. Basically, he’s so cute and all the ugly fat oeople need to drink cyanide and die. My husband taught my son to sing one line and the chorus; “he’s sweet as honey, as a piece of cake”, and “a re nen nen, a ren nen nen ni”, the Chris that rhymes with drink cyanide and die. Scary sh**, that is, and I don’t use that kind of language.

3) Barnacle Bill the sailor, sung by Popeye to Olive Oil. “I’ve changed my mind so you can wed, I’m Barbacle Bill the Sailor; You’re nothing but a cabbage head, I’m barnacle Bill the sailor”

What else? Hm. Ok. My husband has a childhood friend. They have something interesting in common from childhood. He did this to his wife, and has coached my husband to do it to me, I’m sure. The thing they have in common... .the sports team at their private school. There’s a team photo of my husband on my in laws wall; the coach has a creepy look on his face, and his hand on my husband’s shoulder. My husband has an uncomfortable look on his face, and his jersey number had been fixed differently than the rest, with sports tape, so he is singled out in several ways there. My husband’s friend’s dad was the head coach for the sports teams. The creepy coach was just an assistant. So, I’m getting at a Sandusky style sports team situation from my husband’s past, that has yet to be uncovered. One more possible source of sexual abuse my husband may have survived. But I can’t prove it.

The things my husband’s friend may have coached him into doing, I was forewarned by his ex wife, my friend. He would move her keys, hide things, try to make her think she was going crazy. This is like part of your story, LNL. The friend also mailed a “souvenir” from a railroad museum to the house last summer. It was a bandana, printed with hobo symbols, that are common in railroad yards. The center symbol was “target, easy mark” and beside it, “man with a gun”. Across the top of the package, in red permanent marker, he had written, “I know how this will be used”. Interestingly, he wrote the return address as a false name, the name of a company that makes tools, and gave the address of the post office under the tool name. The idea is, to make me panic, go to the police, have them think I am hysterical and paranoid. Like that old Gaslight movie.

Ugh. So, I’ve got to compile all of this, with any evidence I have and email it to my attorneys secretary. I have retained him. He says he won’t charge me until we file, and thinks I should try to make it to the 10 year anniversary. But that was before the incidents the last few weeks.

I can fee my heart sinking, and uncomfortable knots forming in my chest. This is as bad as I think  it is, isn’t it? I need sole custody, with supervised visitation. I need to be able to live 16 hours away from my husband, and get like a camper or something to stay in on summer weeks that my son will have visitation here. That’s what I’m hoping. But golly that’s unrealistic, because all of this chaos, can easily be explained away.

Another crucial procedure, the Latin phrase about the jury resting... .after I’ve oresented and used up all this established pattern of scary behavior, it can’t be used again. So if I initially win, but it gets overturned on an appeal, A new case with new damaging proof of who he is, is highly unlikely I’d be able to get.

Sigh. I just want to pull the covers over my head and pretend it’s not happening. Please tell me it ends eventually. That the losses I’ll suffer won’t hurt that bad, and healing is possible? From what I’ve been reading here, it’s a long process, several years sometimes.

Dig

A short note, I apologize for the spelling errors, I’m texting this all out on my phone. The auto correct and tiny letters make this hard! I think you all will understand though.
Dig

Here’s a link to a chart that really describes my situation well. There are things my husband does in every category. It has only escalated to physics
Violence, mildly so, a handful of times. Yet he denies even that.
https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/PowerandControl.pdf

He can ask for anything he wants, but in my experience, it's very unusual for a dad to get sole custody, especially when a mom is working just as hard to get the same. In my state, which is one of the least progressive in the country (we still have alienation of affection laws here, where you can sue the "paramour" who seduced your spouse away), it is even hard for a mom to get sole custody in a contested divorce, much less a dad. I have the battle fatigue to show for it  

What really matters here is that your H appears willing to go to the mat, and that's no real surprise knowing there is a personality disorder in play.


There is something called right of first refusal (ROFR) that is designed to prevent a parent from using babysitters when the other parent is available. Can you access or document your husband's schedule? Status quo goes a long way with this stuff. If your husband is away from the house for long periods of time, try to calculate the percentage of time he is away, and if there is irregularity in his away days, then he is in a bit of a one-down position. Two down if you factor in his gender, since courts are typically biased toward moms.


This is why shining light on the behaviors is helpful. Shining light can happen with a custody evaluation that includes an MMPI-2, which is used to detect pathologies that might impair parenting. Custody evaluations are pretty standard in contested divorces, so it will be interesting to hear what your lawyer's strategy is around this.


I say this with tremendous empathy, kindness, and love  :)

There are many unknowns, that is true. And some you cannot anticipate, including the good and wonderful ones. People who care about you may surprise you, and total strangers could offer small kindnesses that were hard to predict.

One foot in front of the other, big deep breaths, and keep moving forward. Your future is uncertain, but our future is always uncertain. For every catastrophic thought, think of times in your life when something unexpectedly good happened. Good, surprising things can happen now, too.

Plus, there is a technical nature to family law court that is unknown to you at the moment, and it will play a very big part in what happens next. Until you become familiar with that aspect, you will focus on the bits of narrative you have collected.

Parts of that narrative will matter and your lawyer will use it to play chess with the other lawyer, kind of like playing chicken.

Part of the narrative you have now will drop away, and your lawyer will develop a strategy to focus on tactics that are designed to draw dark behaviors to the surface where other people can see them. These newly documented behaviors, together with your evidence, will tell a story. It might not be the exact same story you are telling now, but it will be designed to match as closely as possible, using technical tactics that are used for people exactly like us.

There is a bit of a factory element here with family law. Our stories are deeply important to us, but this is not out of the ordinary for the family law industry. You've been in an abusive relationship for a while and that affects how you think. Once things start moving, you'll get a bit of distance, then some more, and your thinking will change, and you'll get stronger and stronger every day, even when he gets meaner and more dysregulated.

I'm so proud of you for caring about yourself and your son enough to gather up the strength to do this -- you deserve to be free, safe, and loved  

If your husband is like mine, he will have a hard time staying out of his own way. And what is covert behavior to you may be abundantly obvious to someone who sees through him.


You have a whole peanut gallery here to help you through the maze  :)

There will be setbacks and losses, plus gains and surprising wins. The important thing is that you have taken steps to make a plan for yourself. When you are free, a whole world of clear thinking will open up. It won't solve everything, because court works at a glacial pace and things are expensive.

But being free will give you some new cognitive advantages that are a bit dormant right now.

My lawyer told me I would never get sole custody, and I did.

I did that while working full time, going to graduate school, raising a special needs child, and battling it out with a disordered former trial attorney. What you are doing can be done. It will hurt along the way, but if your experience is anything like mine, it will not be any more difficult than what you have already endured, just different.

Be careful and have a plan, of course, and above all, take really good care of yourself, including talking to yourself with respect for who you are, what you've accomplished, how strong you really are. He's already pretty mean to you, so don't be helping him in that department

 :)

Some of his control/ultimatum threats won't match advice from a lawyer.  For example, his claim to shunt more money to his retirement contributions likely (ask a lawyer) can't be excluded to reduce spousal support or child support calculations.

A general rule of thumb is that you never believe what the acting-out person claims unless it is independently verified.  Don't let the other rent space in your head and especially not rent-free.

As for him trying to convince you're going crazy, watch "Gaslight" (1944, American version).  A more recent movie, if memory serves me, is "Pacific Heights" where a tenant terrorizes a landlord couple with authorities not believing the couple.

Ah, thank you, LNL,
Your words are so comforting, like a hug. I am so grateful that you’ve been in my shoes before and to know that a strong woman can make it through. Even with grad school and a special needs child. Goodness. I think I remember interacting on the boards with you befor, because I remember these common elements. Thank you.

There are wonderful nuggets of truth in your post. Some comforting, encouraging, and others make my to do list. I have access to our calendars, with husbofd days, and maybe still his old time book, that lists exactly how much he works and is gone. I need to grab copi s of yhis while I have access to it.

The MMPI2, my last class was on assessment and evaluation. So I’ve seen several mock assessments recently. That’s comforting. What other kinds of pieces go in a parenting evaluation? I hav a friend who is still fighting through this, just finished the evaluations, but haven’t had final court yet. I can ask her too.

I also have a freshly unwrapped copy of the DSM-V, that arrived for my class that started yesterday. That does help shed light on what I’m dealing with. The anorexia and oppositional defiant qualifiers match nearly exactly. It’s the ODD way of thinking and speaking that I’m battling so hard with my S5. I don’t want him to lose his tender heart, but he is oppositional when his dad is around. It takes an hour or so after his dad is gone for work for him to return to himself. But the disagreeable attitude lingers more each time.

Thank goodness for the peanut gallery. What a lifeline. I understand how important  His is for someone like me, who is isolated, alone, and feels helpless. It’s a vehicle to remember my strength. When this is over for me, and I’m an LPC, I’d love to give back by helping people like me on the boards.

Thanks again. I’ll reread your post over and over, I imagine. I remember who I am, and self care is a high priority. He was gone tonight, so I ditched the low key “uniform” for personal choice clothes. That’s, no gray yoga pants and white t shirt, but actual jeans and a shirt with colors and flowers, . It’s amazing what sets him off and what keeps him at bay.
Dig.

Dig,

I loved livednlearned's idea to document his time away.  That is brilliant.  Can you pull together such documentation for past months?  :)o you have paper shift schedules?  Access to online information?  Even if not, a contemporaneous journal is powerful.  Get that safely to your lawyer's secretary!  The status quo is a very strong influence.  I also really liked her right of first refusal suggestion.

With the audio recordings, do you have a few gems saved off to the side so you don't have to hunt through years of recordings like Horton hunting through a massive field of clover?  When the time comes, you may be in rough shape.  If you haven't started, definitely save the file with gems in a separate folder.  I have submitted just four videos, and they make 80 pages of journal summaries that much more believable.  But you have to be able to find the gems.

You are in a tight spot, but you are doing amazingly well at using your intellect and grit and love for your son to hold up under this pressure.  You can do this!  We wish for you a life of peace and freedom at the end of all of this.

WW

I hope you draw strength from those jeans and colorful shirts.  :)

Have you read Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft?

Other things to consider while you prepare to file:

Get a notebook or piece of paper and create two columns, one for you and one for him. List any allegations he might make, then list evidence he might have to back it up, then list any concerns you have for your L. You may want to also have a column for leverage.

Leverage is stuff like what you shared earlier -- he does not want to file first because he will want to remarry in the church.

You might have two versions of this. One for if he files first in your state. The other if you wait things out.

I didn't like doing this kind of thing because it was so hard to think straight and keep my thoughts organized. But it did help me untangle some of his threats from what was real and true. I also never kept this kind of thing where my ex could find it. If you do this, it might be something you keep safely stored at your storage locker.

Another thing you can do with a custody evaluation. Ask around for the three best evaluators. Your clerk of court may be able to recommend the three most competent and reputable ones in your county. When it comes time for the custody evaluation, your L will then offer those three and let your ex pick one. He will want the control, but you (discreetly) will have created the parameters for how he exerts that control.

It may also be a good idea to set deadlines for everything, with consequences. For example, your L tells him he must choose the CE by day/date. If he doesn't by that time, then you get to choose. That's the consequence for him not complying with the deadline. By the same token, tell your L that you don't want him to agree to any extensions without your explicit permission. Sometimes Ls do this for collegial reasons, but extensions can become a tactic for stonewalling and obstruction, a form of negative engagement. If you get a favorable (so-called) temporary order, extensions might help you, but for the most part they don't.

For the custody evaluation, it is different depending on where you live. It could be that you have a psychologist administer the MMPI-2 to both of you, then visit separately in your two different locations, to see how you interact with your child, and how your husband interacts with him. Not all custody evaluations include the MMPI-2. It could just be home visits and interviews. Your county may also rely on guardian ad litems (GAL), who are supposed to represent the needs of the child. I'm not a big fan of using GALs, although I know there are some out there that are wonderful. In my county, a GAL is only required to have a high school education, which is fine. But then they get virtually no training which seems absurd given how much influence they can have in a case. If someone is going to have an opinion on the most personal aspects of my life, and have influence over the most important person in my life, then that person better know what they are doing and have an above average knowledge about personality disorders and child abuse.

This may be putting the cart before the horse -- you are a ways off from needing all this information. I just want you to know there are small tactics that can make a big difference, and even good Ls won't necessarily spot these moves, mostly because they don't feel the pain of our situations quite like we do, so they aren't motivated to curb the low-lying and insidious abusive behaviors that fly under the radar and slow our cases down to a crawl.

I also like Wentworth's suggestion to organize your recordings. You don't want to pay your L for things you can do, so perhaps when you have the time, try to make it easy for your L to find different kinds of abuse you want to call attention to. Maybe even transcribe the most hair-raising bits.

I had three-ring binders with emails that I sorted into four categories and labeled them. I flagged the emails that were the most troubling. My L took notes before a deposition we did, and referred to only a handful of emails. But she also brought the binders into the meeting and set them down on the table. That part is theater -- she wanted the opposing L to see that we had truck loads of evidence. My ex, the former trial attorney, came to the meeting with a yellow file folder with two pieces of paper in it. One was my son's medical records with vaccinations going back to his first birthday. I have no idea why, especially since he had never once been to the doctor with me and the records sort of brought attention to that fact. Who knows -- this is why I say disordered people can really get in their own way. Not to mention the binders of emails I had with me were sent by my attorney ex himself, who (you would think) would know better than to create a trail of evidence.  

Last thought for now. One of the things you are paying your L for is knowledge of the judge, and his or her tendencies, for lack of a better word. My judge was known to be an old school Southerner judge who expected gentlemanly behavior. My ex was fond of sending me one word name-calling emails (e.g. whore, slut, you can imagine the rest... .). Both in the deposition and in court, my L would read these emails out loud in court. For the ones that couldn't be said in polite company, she would say exactly that, "I cannot read the rest of these emails aloud in polite company, your honor. And frankly, I am not comfortable reading them, period."

That's the theater part.

I hope this isn't too much information   

I took comfort in knowing how things work, and information helped me settle some of the dread and anxiety I felt. If that isn't how things are for you, just say the word and I can dial things back  *)

One of the things I did that took a ton of work, but has been very impactful, is to summarize my journals.  I made a section heading for each tactic she used, such as assault, sabotaging my parenting, verbal abuse of me, verbal abuse of me in front of the children, denial of transportation, trapping me in a room, homicidal threats, other threats, etc.  Under each heading I had a bullet list of each thing, with the date it happened in parentheses.  You can also reorganize this list in another document by timeline, with a heading for each month.  It's helpful to show the tactics and that you have many examples for each one -- it makes it look like the broad attack on your liberties and parenting that it is.  It's helpful to have the timeline view because it will show that your experience was continuous and all-pervasive.  Your organized and articulate mind is a powerful weapon.  You won't likely get a judge to read all of this, but a thorough evaluator may.  It will also give you the foundation from which to make more brief summaries or powerful narratives of just a few pages that a judge will actually read.  It will give you the material and the confidence to write compelling narratives.  It will greatly multiply the chances that you'll be believed, and help reduce any anxiety you may feel abot not being believed.

Perhapse this is a project for when you are visiting your parents?  I will caution that this can be a gut-wrenching experience.  I was thrown for a loop when I saw in one place all that had happened.  It is a good thing to do when you have support nearby.  If you do it with him nearby, telltale signs of indignance or vulnerability on your part may cause trouble.

WW

Hi everyone,

This is all very helpful, as you are shedding light into the unknown.  I am planning on putting together files of the gems. There is an audio file of those gems, and as of a couple of weeks ago, I need to glean through the recordings and export the most recent few.

I can put those together away from my husband. I do my best work at the coffee shop here, with headphones. It IS extremely disturbing emotionally to see it all at once. I’ve tried before... .it does make me vulnerable to panic attack sort of breathing almost.

I can do some at my parents. It’s a good place where I’m supported. Interestingly, I get overwhelmed just being there with them. The contrast of the safety of my childhood home and bedroom, with all of my childhood toys to what I’m living in is stark.  It’s like I don’t realize how bad it is until I’m truly safe.

I can make separate files, with incidents by topic and timeline. The power and control diagram I linked earlier, I am hoping to write a paper, with references to proof, divided by section by pie slice of that diagram. Also, there’s a significant distinction between proving he’s a danger to me verses our son. 2 separate notebooks there.
Ah he’s here!
Gotta run
Dig

Really quickly,
 One last thing I’m struggling with, is detaching from my house, with all the built in cabinets I’ve made myself, in the garage, with my dad’s woodworking tools. This place is my dream. But he is a nightmare. I’m certain this is a topic for the detaching thread. But how do you detach from all the work you put into making the house of your dreams? As for the legal aspect of this problem I’m having with the house, has anybody been able to keep theirs as their own?
Dig

Whew, that was close.

Thank you everyone,

Your posts are making my to do lists. I will go back and make sure I haven’t missed any suggestion. Timeline format, shows continuous and all pervasive. Yes. All of this is becoming clearer how to begin.  The 2 column idea of what allegations he might make, with any evidence he may have and a column with how I might refute it, and anything that might be leverage.

I’m climbing the learning curve with your help.
Bless you all,
Dig

Let's split it into the legal and emotional aspects.

Legally... .Your state probably has laws that impact what is feasible and what is not.  Is the deed in his name or both names, then it can be a bit complicated.

How about the mortgage?  If you're on the mortgage, you can't risk letting him keep the house unless he refinances.  Imagine giving him a quit claim deed but he fails to refinance as the divorce settlement requires.  Sadly, courts are okay with making decisions or getting them put on paper but too often horrible on enforcing them.  Similarly, if you want the house (and can afford it) then he must sign over a quit claim deed if he currently is joint owner.  How to get him to comply?  Often in a divorce each spouse gets something from the other.  Make sure he doesn't get what he wants — that's your Leverage — until you or your lawyer have his quit claim deed.

Emotionally... .Sometimes you have to accept reality and Let Go.  Is the house one of those things to Let Go?  Only you can decide that, ponder the various factors.  If there is marital equity, can you afford to buy his equity out?  Can you afford a new mortgage?  Or would it be better for it to be sold and make a clean restart elsewhere?  You can always make new cabinets, right?

Many people in divorce feel a powerful urge to hold on to the home.  (And some of them years later regret holding on, too.)  Sometimes they think the child would do better not moving.  But children are so adaptable.  Home is where you and they live, not a particular building.  Many functional families move.  Moves occur millions of times every year across the world.  Life goes on.

Dig,

I was going to mention that I had two documents, one for stuff relevant to parenting, and the other for abuse just focused at me, but I was trying to keep my reply briefer.  I'm not surprised you did two documents as well!  I ended up handing both over to the evaluator, but I think it was very important to make her job easy so she could focus on the parenting document.  Including the other document in a respectful way (separately) almost makes it more likely that the evaluator will consider it as background info.

Regarding the house, I appreciated ForeverDad's thoughts.  Aren't you thinking it's most likely that you'll move back to your home state?  If so, then is it more of a grieving process for the house than a decision process?  Perhaps reframe your thoughts on the cabinets (no pun intended  ).  You built them for yourself, but most craftsmen let go of much of what they build when they sell or give it to others.  For these craftsmen, they are continually letting go.  As long as she has her tools, a craftsman can build again, and better!  Do you have tools you could bring with you to your parents' under the guise of returning/loaning tools to your father so he can do a project?  Get the most important/special tools to safety even if you have to leave the cabinets

WW

I just wanted to chime in. My SO ended up with a binder full of documentation that he took to his divorce trial. (he called it the "book of doom"  )  He broke it down into the things his ex was neglecting to do for their daughters each section had a summary sheet on top and documentation behind that. 

At the beginning of their separation his uBPDxw had primary custody of their daughters, my SO had every other weekend and Wednesday night dinner.

An example of what went into one of the tabs in his binder... .

At one point their younger daughter got a toothache mom scheduled a dentist appointment and failed to make it, she rescheduled and again missed the appointment, then she decided to go to a different dentist scheduled an appointment and you guessed it didn't show, then she rescheduled again and so it went.  All of this was in email communication along with my SO's offers to take his daughter. This went on for 3 months... .the poor kid had a toothache for 3 months!... .my SO finally found a dentist open on the weekend and got her seen.  Using the emails he was able to document neglect. This only one example he had a 3 inch binder! (By the way my SO came out of his divorce with Medical, Dental, and Education decision-making and over 50% custody of his daughters - M-F and one weekend a month... .your results might vary :)

I'm sure there are many ways to categorize things use what makes sense to you, but I think it does help to break things down so you can focus on smaller chunks and not get completely overwhelmed.

Take Care, 
Panda39

Hi everyone,
I’ve been absent while things around me have escalated. I think I caught my s5’s ear infection and mono. So I’m tired. Really tired.

I think as long as the divorce isn’t final before my 10 year anniversary, I’ll get retirement alimony. There has been a collection of escalating incidents, that include significant risky parenting on his part. Tree climbing, playing in the ditch with snakes, climbing up in the attic in the heat of the day, AND, most recently, my S5 telling me he can’t play with out puppies because daddy told him he’d whip him if he did, when I wasn’t around to see it. I was wearing my recorder,  it I’ve got to download it and see if it is audible. Add to the list threats if I keep the puppies and the cat gone missing. I may have it recorded that he tells me he didn’t give me permission to bring that cat home, followed by my asking him if he had anything to do with it disappearing. Followed by him cussing at me. Add to that he prevented me from giving S5 his medicine one night with the ear infection.

So... with this recent collection of dangers, I can reasonably file for D due to domestic violence and child endangerment. If I leave for my parents in the morning, and stay until mid July, my husband will file first, citing irreconcilable differences.

The million dollar question. Is this the time fo file em and run? Clean the house out? Beat him to it? It’s happeniy eventually. Who goes first and why seems crucial.
Dig


So,

Hey, Forever Dad,

I reread your advice about the house. You’re right about the emotional aspect l, spot on. The deed is written in both names, with the phrase, “asking as our lives are joined together” Or something like that. The mortgage is solely I. His name. I haven’t worked since we got married, 9 years and 3 months ago.
He pays all the bills out of a separate account that I don’t have access to. We still have enough to live on after that, but not enough for groceries, gas AND an apartment for him.

I wish I knew for certain that my lawyer could get me home to my parents. He just any guarantee it. It’s logical, but the judges around here tend to favor dads. Something about the Bible Belt and men being head of house, women being submissive.

I wish I knew if my lawyer could drag things out until the second week in March, letting me Teach the 10 year mark.

I wish I knew what things my husband says is scary threats and which ones he means.
The not knowing all the facts to make a decision is confusing.

Dig

Wow, dictation typos or autocorrect are having a field day with you.  Don't worry, we get it okay.

Strange how we usually want the legal stuff over quickly and the other person is the one dragging things out.  You have a child to care for, it's okay to be the one wanting to reach that landmark but safely.

Typical things that happen leading up to a separation... .Mementos and other things that you care about can go missing.  It's smart to get them to a safe place.  Same for deeds, titles, birth certificates, passports, insurance details, retirement, bank & credit account numbers, etc.

General advice is that half of any joint accounts is yours.  If he works and you don't then you may choose to secure more than your half.  He may squawk but the worst to happen is that when the financial details are thrashed out, usually at the end of a divorce, the extra you took may need to be included in the marital financial split.  It may not even come up as an issue by then and especially if you can document the extra was used for your child's care.

You might try talking to someone at your local domestic violence shelter regarding tips for a safe exit.  His comments to your son are concerning.

Panda39

Wow, dictation typos or autocorrect are having a field day with you.  :)on't worry, we get it okay. hug-

Hi!
Goodness. Sorry about that! I’m glad you get it... .typing with thumbs on a phone in moments when he is out of the room for the moment!
Dig

Hi Panda,
My friends at the shelter advise to be careful how I leave S5 alone with him. Also, that a recording of S5 repeating what daddy says to him when I’m not there, sounds like I coerced him into saying it while I recorded it; it doesn’t carry the significance of a recording of my husband actually saying it to him. So, things like that, I’m in trouble either way... .trouble if I leave due to those hearsay statements and potential trouble if I don’t, since I have a hint of danger. I’m in a state where spamming is legal though. I’d have to have photos of excessive spamming, after he had done it (which hasn’t happened). Geez. The system is very broken. So, I make sure I’m here to protect s5. We really could use a new bill, new legislation or something to help with tight spots like this, make it possible to exit safely and be believed.
Dig

This seems like a really important thing to know for certain.

Divorce is a process, marked by a series of legal procedures. Some things you may want to confirm:

Is the 10-year anniversary a fixed date, or is there a grace period.
Are there circumstances for which the 10-year anniversary date can be waived
If he files between now and the anniversary date, what will that mean financially for you (and legally)

Plus:

What parts of the divorce process matter in terms of the 10-year anniversary. Is it when you file? Or is it when the actual divorce decree is granted?

In my state, there is a one-year separation period before the divorce can be granted. That divorce decree is almost a formality in a high-conflict divorce because there are many other legal milestones, like filing the complaint, getting the temp order signed by a judge, getting the permanent order, and all kinds of other things that can drag a custody battle and financial settlement out for years.

Try to not negotiate with yourself about this stuff -- there is a technical aspect to law that can inform your strategy.

And I know it's really really hard, but try to see pros and cons of things that aren't borne out in fact. Yes, it might be a Bible Belt county where men are considered head of household, etc. But that might also mean a judge thinks it's H's responsibility to split his retirement alimony for life to support his child, or at least until you remarry. If there is wiggle room to the anniversary date, that's an important thing to know.

Feeling sick, being worried about your safety, your son's safety, being in graduate school, trying to live with a dangerous person -- it's hard to think straight about things that feel so high stakes, so my heart goes out to you. I remember well how it feels to be in your position, and we're here for you.

When is the next time you can talk to your L, and do you have questions you need answered before you can make a big decision?

Hi LNL,

I made a discovery today of a homeopathic remedy for “feeling fatigued and achy from overwork”, made by Boiron. Wow, what a difference! I can move without the back pain and super tired “mono” like symptoms.

I am putting together a document with my account of the most significant, concerning events that have happened recently, and with any evidence I have. I’m supposed to email it to my lawyers assistant. That’s when the professional opinion of what chances I have in court comes in. He may say it’s not enough to prove my H is a danger to my son yet. There has to be a pattern of behavior.

After he’s had a chance to go through that, he can tell me more about the other pieces, such as the 10 year anniversary and who files first. Back in March, he told me, if we file now, I wouldn’t get retirement alimony. I’m not sure if he meant that was because we filed before 10 years, or because he knew he couldn’t drag it out a year. So, I’ll send that question with my email to the assistant.

Strangely enough, the notion of the mental health of a man who is mean and cruel to animals has me most afraid. it’s the pattern of bad things happening to the cats, with the last one disappearing altogether, that has me most concerned. That combined with his harsh stance on the adorable lab mix puppies on my back porch. He hates them, is threatening to move out if I keep them, etc. Rhetorical question, but what kind of dad doesn’t want his S5 with special needs to have a puppy? Even if it’s paid for by my grad school loan money, because they’ll be my therapy dogs for work? Even if I keep the yard cleaned and they’re not in the house (much, or while he’s home)? He’s only home 48 hours, once a week, plus a couple hours in between trips, only twice a week. What kind of dad insists on his son not having that? And possibly takes his sons favorite cat and dumps him somewhere? It’s almost like he doesn’t want S5 to love anything of anyone but daddy.

My gut instinct is screaming at me, that I don’t have as much time as I’d like, to wait until the end of my long term safety plan. The animal issues, the songs/poems he’s taught my S5, (with the veiled threats) and the escalating contempt coming from him.

All I can do for now, if one foot in front of the other, determine the next correct thing to do. Starting with sleep. And my to do list for tomorrow. And the dishes, etc. The actions in getting us out of here are small, and a tiny, hopefully unnoticed bit at a time. Tonight I packed a small moving box with personal items that might not be missed. Glass pieces, like my grandmothers candy dish, bubble wrapped, my childhood teddy bear, favorite book off the shelf. How thankful I am that he works out of town for long periods and it’s somewhat predictable.

Yes, there’s really not much to negotiate with myself, only worrisome circular “what if’s” and an overwhelming sense of helplessness. I can sort of see, that doing the next thing on the list gives my sense of power back and silences the what if’s. If I’m doing all I can, that’s the best I can do. The what if’s will reveal themselves in time. Like pealing a stinky eye watering onion. Yuck.

Goodnight everyone, and thank you for all the kind words and encouragement!
Dig

 |iiii Great that you are taking care of yourself, and that you discovered something helpful.


Will your L consider a custody evaluation? That's another way to shine light on things. It does cost a lot of money.



Wow. That'a pretty extreme schedule. It will be interesting to hear what kind of strategy your L suggests.


I think you're absolutely right.

With my ex, he would get angry if my son and I read together. And n/BPDx would say, You love the dog more than me. When my son started to say that, it was devastating. It took therapy to figure out a way to respond in a skillful way.



You are doing all the right things. You are gathering as much information as you can, documenting everything you can, have back up plans in case plan A doesn't work. Doing small unnoticeable things, slowly.

That's the best you can do. You are being careful and thoughtful, and deliberate, which is all good. And you're making your way to safety, a huge thing! There will come a moment when you can no longer hold on, and it will be nerve-wracking and scary -- that's how uncertainty feels, and the intensity is probably fueled by the love you have for S5. You want to get him to safety, and the court system is a question mark for now.

Maybe you get to follow the plan exactly, maybe not. Being prepared increases the chances that you are a few steps ahead of him no matter what happens.

My ex was a former trial attorney and I ended up with full custody in a county people said doesn't award full custody. Somehow, being a few steps ahead made all the difference. It took incremental steps to get to my goal, and there were some awful periods where my ex was psychotic, and the courts gave my ex third and fourth chances. But the courts eventually caught up to what I was saying all along and here we are 8 years later, not perfect because that isn't possible when a spouse has a PD, but better than the alternative, which would be unable to provide a safe home for S16. 



 

You are doing an amazing job, D&S.

Keep doing what you're doing  :)

LnL

Dig,

Can you tell us what the benefit is where you live of filing for divorce under a DV situation vs. you being the respondent after your husband files?  Does it give you preference with respect to custody if there is a DV finding? 

When you are gathering information, the more specifics the better.  You mentioned having your son in a hot attic.  I've had my daughter in the attic to repair the furnace with me, and feel like a little bit of a tough situation is character building.  The key is the details -- how hot was the attic, and how long was he up there?  Can you stick a thermometer up there on a similar day?  I know you're busy, and there may not be time for this, just giving examples on how to strengthen your documentation so it's less of a he said -- she said.

Another example is the tree climbing.  You mentioned 50 feet.  That is very high.  Too high for S5 with one hand.  But someone might feel like it's more likely that you misjudged the height than that he was really at a crazy height.  If you look at the tree, you probably remember exactly where he was.  Was it higher than a telephone pole?  Can you compare it to nearby references like the peak of a roof?

One of the most powerful things I had going for me was the sheer number of specific examples I had.  Most people who make stuff up don't have a ton of detail over a protracted period of time.  Most people cannot write fiction that well.  Another thing that made a huge impression was the quotes.  The things she said were just stunning.  Even though I didn't have recordings, I had three single spaced pages of the most awful, crazy quotes that I'd pulled from my journal, and was prepared to swear to their accuracy and the date she said each one of them.  It hasn't been tested at trial, but I know that information convinced neutral professionals that I was telling the truth.

WW

Wentworth makes a really good point.

There is theater to this stuff.

"My ex sent a lot of emails"

paints less of a picture than

"My ex sent over 10,000 emails. He sent 100 emails in an 8 hour period. During that same time he sent over 100 text messages, direct messages, and left 11 voice mails in succession after midnight. I have a folder of this particular day and the messages he sent, and I have several binders of the thousands of others sent over the course of our divorce."

If you could have someone from the fire department or an arborist come out and estimate how high the tree is, how high the spot where S5 climbed to, you strengthen the pictures being painted in people's minds. No need to tell why you need this estimate, only that you can say "An arborist estimated that the spot where S5 was in the tree was 50 feet."

Another thing that can be tough in our cases is that we sound paranoid.

If you talk to a pediatrician with expertise in your son's condition, ask him or her, "Is it safe for S5 to be climbing a tree that is 50 feet high?"

Then when you describe your concerns to the court, you can say, "An arborist estimated the tree was 50 feet, taller than a telephone pole, and a pediatrician, when asked, said that it was extremely unsafe for a 5-year-old with one hand to be climbing this high. If you have dates and times of when things happened, that can really help.

You will want to persuade the judge that the quality of your documentation cannot be disputed or explained away. "S5's father is home for 48 hours every two weeks, and his parenting choices during those brief visits shows serious lapses in judgement that endanger the child. S5 has one hand, your honor, and what would be considered for any 5 year old is flat out dangerous for S5."

Then recommend something like parenting classes, anger management classes, therapy for S5, coparenting therapy, a psychiatric evaluation, or custody evaluation.

Your H will have a harder time than most following court orders because of his narcissism, is my guess. Raising some questions about his fitness as a parent will trigger the court to agree that H needs to demonstrate his ability to be a better parent.

There are always variables in these cases, but I found that n/BPDx started to behave toward the court/judge/orders the same way he behaved toward me. I presented enough evidence, but it was the continuation of those behaviors in front of the judge that seemed to tip things my way.

Once n/BPDx started to lose consistently, he dysregulated more until he basically quit doing anything the judge requested.

Hi all,
I am ok, still plugging away at the documentation advice! Only from the safety of my parents house. Brought all living things this trip, puppies, cats, houseplant. By myself. 16 hour overnight trip. Wheeling the whole crew inside for bathroom stops in a fold up heavy duty utility wagon. But we’re all here, safe and sound! I’m plugging away at grad schoolwork, documentation, self care, and making memories with my parents. They are a piece of work, especially my dad. I am grateful for them, but totally see how the history of emotional scapegoat role they put me in helped me accidentally marry someone unhealthy.

I’m hoping to have some documentation completed for “the Cake man”this week. That’s what my S5 calls him, because while we were there, he fed him cake, .

I Hope everyone is well, succeeding in winning your own battles, and resilient. Thank you for all of the support.
The BPD family rocks!
Dig.

Thanks for the update!  Glad you arrived safely!  You and your menagerie in that utility wagon must have been quite a sight!  I'm glad to hear that while you see the role your parents played in prepping you for the choices you made, you also are able to appreciate them and enjoy making memories with them.  It took me years to get to that place, and it's really been a work in progress and continues to be so.

A while back you were concerned that your husband would file any day.  How are you feeling about timing?  It sounds like you're working with some urgency while you've got safety, but I didn't get the sense that you're worried that things will go down imminently.

WW

Hi WW,

I am keeping a finger on the pulse of his imminent threat to file. Just this weekend, his parents drove a long ways to spend Father’s Day with him. They never come visit when S5 and myself aren’t there. I had 2 friends drive through the neighborhood, unnoticed, just to see if they were moving him out. Nobody noticed anything. But I am working with some haste to gather documentation, write it all out, so my attorney will have it.

The attorney may see the recent events in the documentation and think I need to file now, and try not to go back. I’m hoping to complete something workable this week. It’s taking a toll though, my body aches all over. I suppose that’s typical, seeing it all, remembering it all. Like an abuse hangover.

It may be enough to charge him with harassment in criminal court as well as dv in civil court. Not sure. The constant persistence of his behavior certainly is harrassing, with little relief. I’m sure he intends it to be that way.

I’m in the stage of writing out events, with dates if possible, making note of any evidence there may be. I’ll have to go back and match evidence artifacts to events.  Sometimes I think, golly this sounds like I am paranoid and sensitive, and others I think, geez, somebody in the helping organizations (women’s shelter, investigator) could get in trouble for sending me away with no help, with all this going on. I guess it will depend on who sees it, and their perception.

Headed off for a much needed nap

Your L will (hopefully) have a strategy for what needs to be presented as evidence. Your (difficult) job is to make it easy to spot patterns of behaviors and the evidence to go with those behaviors.

It might work different in your case. In mine, it worked like this.

My binder had five categories, and my L picked the one "insults, name calling." I thought that would be the least important one because sticks and stones and all that.

But my judge was a Southern gentlemen type with a history of being offended when people can't be civil to one another.

When my ex and I were deposed (a tactic his L used to gauge my standing as a credible witness), my L asked my ex if he had a problem with anger. He of course said no, that I was the one with anger issues. She then asked him if he called me names or used insults. He said no. Then she took out the folder of emails where he called me whore and asked if he had sent the email, to which he said maybe, yes, he couldn't remember. Then she showed him the email and he verified that it was sent by him on day/date. She asked if he was still angry and he said no. Then she pulled out each printed email and went through things one by one, same as before, asking him the same questions. She also would ask what prompted him to send single-word emails with those words, and he said I provoked him. Then she would show him the "provocative" email I sent him and it would be a civil, reasonable request pertaining to our son.  

My ex retained a father's rights attorney who visibly winced. I was a highly credible witness and he was learning that his client wasn't being honest with him.

That deposition changed opposing L's strategy.

Opposing L thought it was important to keep his client out of court, so he started to try to manage ex, and you know how that goes with someone who is BPD.

This is just one example of how evidence can be used. Your L should be able to give you an overall strategy, explain what goals are realistic in the short term, in the long term, and what kinds of tactics will work well with the judge you have.

Wow,
that’s amazing, LNL! Such great strategy and evidence, and your ex showing his true colors like that, especially in writing.

 I think that would take a miracle in my case. But I’m trying to be faithful to document as much as I can. It’s the covert-ness about my husband that worries me the most. He shows his true colors most to our s5c when they are alone, in the things S5 says his daddy says to him outside. But it’s against the law to hide a recorder on S5, because he is below the age of consent, and in my state, one of 2 parties must be aware of and consent to being recorded. So no hiding it in the tree anywhere or under the swing.

Surely my attorney will know what to go after. He seems very very smart, and understands who my husband is, almost more than I do. At the moment, I’m writing a section on risky parenting choices and s5’s special needs.

Dig.
 

Dig,

What you are doing is a tough task.  I did some digging and unearthed my post from when I was doing what you are doing now:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=316170.msg12907375#msg12907375

Reading it in hindsight, I think I glossed over the impact that the exercise had on me.  Seeing all in one place the abuse that I'd recorded event by event left me shaken.  The next day I left work at lunch and just wandered around the neighborhood in a daze for a while.

Pace yourself, take breaks.  Intersperse the work with life-affirming, healing activities.  This documentation will save you.  You are telling a complicated story.  One of the most important audiences is you.  Because of your documentation, and especially once you've reviewed and summarized it, you will have confidence in what happened and your ability to represent it to others.  Going through the evidence may be immensely painful, but the benefits will be just as great.

Can you store a memory stick at your parent's house?  Do you have it all stored in the cloud?  I'm sure you've got this covered, but you want to make sure that no human or natural calamity can erase that evidence and your summaries.

WW

Oy vey, indeed, WW!

Thank you for taking time to look up your post. It is my experience the past 2 days. The daze you described... .yes. The shock of seeing it all in writing. I am the most important audience for it. That’s true.

I think our minds and bodies minimize, forget, and push past, as a self-healing mechanism. Bessel van der Kolk writes about this. His book title says it all... .the body keeps the score.

I feel exactly as I did many years ago after a minor car wreck. Hurt and achy all over, stiff neck, mind in a foggy daze. I’m so glad this is “normal”. It will pass.

I have found something wonderful to listen to as I go through it. I’ll share the link. It’s an instrumental version of This is my Fight Song, overlaid with Amazing Grace. It brings tears to listen to it, as I write all the horrible memories. Yet I hope there’s healing in the telling of it. It’s pretty powerful and triggering for me, to play it at the same time as the No Mans Land scene from Wonder Woman, but That’s how this feels. On that battle field taking all the fire, bravely fighting back and standing up to the abuse. Here’s the links. I am grateful to know, you guys have been through it and are ok. Thanks for the encouragement. Know anybody who can mash these links together and get a new video? I’m not that savvy. Maybe a question for the random thread.

Dig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOO5qRjVFLw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEgjYABKWrI

Great song and great movie  :)

Beautiful Scottish Highlands video, thank you!

When it comes time to return, you will need to make an adjustment.  I found that once I got a lot of support, and a clear catalog of abusive behavior, I started asserting myself, but also got a little rebellious, not always judging how much exposure I was creating to pushback.  You may then need to look to spy movies or WWII resistance movies for inspiration!

WW

Well,

There was a major development today. I should have thought through the asserting myself and pushback idea, more than I did. I thought, nah, I won’t do that. I did. Oops.

Major oops. He has been calling, threatening to take away my access to money, by taking all or some of our savings, and reducing the amount going into checking each payday.

So, when he called and said he was headed to the bank, to withdraw money, $1,000 from savings and some from checking, but that I deserve for him to take it all, I acted.

I called the bank, who wired 2/3 of our savings to an old account of mine from my hometown. Before he got there. It’s a 30 minute drive for him.

So... .he’s livid. Says he’s going to file for separation on Monday. Oops. Long term
Plan gone, if he follows through. I did get the conversations recorded.

Geez. The amount I had wired is nowhere near what lifetime alimony would be. Oops. 10
Year date is still 38 weeks away. 8 months and 2 weeks. Maybe I can talk him out of it. I wish I had just let him take it all. That would have made him look bad in court. I didn’t think that one through.

Anybody done that? Big oops. Really, all he wanted was to make me cry. But, picking up my book bag the other day, i accidentally gave myself whiplash. I feel like I’ve beem in a car wreck. So thinking things through didn’t happen. And my dad was away at a funeral, I couldn’t check in with him first. It happened SO fast.

Dig

I would've done the exact same thing.

He wants control more than he wants divorce, is my guess, altho you know him best.

My experience with BPD is that divorce is simply a big stick to keep the marriage under control. It's the biggest stick. Threatening to use it, and using it, are two totally separate things.

For other people here, divorce was necessary because their BPD ex found a replacement, or had something else lined up and ready to go. There are other reasons, but threats of divorce seem to be a terrible attempt to regain control in the relationship. Either you are on top, or you are on the bottom. People with a lot of narcissism in their BPD need to be on top.

I'm not advocating for you to stay or go, only that this may be a bluff. He lost control and has to gain it back somewhere.

If you give him back control by giving him back the money, there may be an unpleasant test period where he has to check and see if the control worked.

If you keep the money, he will have to up the ante somewhere else. Maybe he files for divorce by then stonewalls the process until his narcissistic injury is appeased in some other way.

That’s totally on point, LNL.  He needs control back. It happens every time I’m at my parents for a while. That’s why I brought all
The animals this time.

I suppose the only way to know which one he would feel more control with it to ask him. Maybe ask him if putting the money back would keep him from filing? You’re right about the testing period, the uncomfortable hell he puts me through to make his point.

Really, all he wanted was for me to cry and beg about something. It’s always that, no matter what the thing is about.

Did asking what he wanted ever do any good, or do more harm than good?
I’m nearly out of tears, I just couldn’t do it yesterday. Whiplash really has me down. I had no idea my neck could hurt so much.

Grad paper to write today and tomorrow, along with documents to the cake man.
I sure am missing out on playing and having fun with my S5 so far today. I’ve had to stay in bed and rest while my parents play with him. The chiropractor doesn’t open again until Monday.

Dig

Ask our members how many of them had the ex drain the joint accounts.  It didn't happen to me but it's been reported.  Guess what?  Courts and lawyer generally don't do anything about it.  How can they? It was before a divorce was filed (usually) and joint accounts can be drained by either spouse.  And the typical lawyer advice to the injured spouse is "we'll fix this when we get near the end of the divorce and divide up the marital assets and debts."  News Flash... .The financial deal gets done so fast this matter is often left out.

Forget any legal consequence, there isn't any.  This is more about his emotional perception.  Do you usually pay the bills from that account?  If so, then perhaps you can tell him you're using it to ensure bills get paid.  At most I would say you could return that 1/6 which was over the half of the account contents.  (Maybe say you've already spent or allocated the remainder for your necessities in New Town?  After all, he had mused or threatened to take all of it.)  If he's working and you're not then he can more easily replenish the account than you.

Is his threat to file for divorce more bluff and triggered overreaction than reality?  Likely but who knows for sure?  Note LnL wrote she would have done as you did, though I guess she wasn't trying to have a timeline of how things were to play out over the next several months.

Dig, I made several missteps, and they were scary, since I'd been conditioned so strongly to do whatever I needed to do to avoid a blowup.  A week or two weeks later they seemed less dire than the day of.  Get yourself through the first 48 hours, and I am hoping you'll feel less panicked about this.

He still has a lot of control -- he controls where his paycheck goes!  Of course, that may not be enough for him.

It's an open question whether giving the money back will help.  Do you think it will?  On the one hand, appeasement sometimes works temporarily.  On the other hand, giving up may fuel contempt for you which may fuel even more abusive behavior.

You said that your plan of long term alimony is out the window.  As others have said, you don't know that he will file.  But haven't you also said that you think that you need to get to 10 years before the divorce is final, not before he files?  Is there ambiguity on this?  I can't tell if you're forgetting in your worry about this event, or if you still haven't dug with your lawyer to see if you have to get to 10 years before he even files.

What are your latest thoughts about what to do with the money?

Don't let him knock you off your plan to get that paper done!

Hang in there   |iiii

WW

The ten-year mark is not the priority. Believe me, thousands of couples have divorced at the 9 year mark. Let that go, and focus on your current situation. You will be OK... .ten years down the road, this will be a memory.

Hi gang,

I have an email in to my lawyer and his assistant. They’re tied up with a high profile capital murder case in my state at the moment. So... .I still don’t know if it’s the filing or finalizing that is the hinge pin for the 10 years and lifetime alimony. It’s a financial difference of rehabilitative alimony, (about $53,000) versus lifetime alimony, (about $753,000). That’s significant, considering there’s only 38 weeks until the date.

What the lawyer says will matter a huge deal. It may be true, if my husband files first, he could get temporary custody of S5, ASAP. That could mean months of S5 subjected to a person I believe has the capacity for familial incest, with nothing I could do to get anybody to believe me.

So priorities are... .grad paper, keep writing incidents and finding recordings for the lawyer, with all submitted by this time tomorrow night. Ready to act on Monday possibly. I think a good nights sleep will be a good idea.

Surprisingly, about the money in the accounts... .several years ago, after the first stay at the women’s shelter, I cleaned out the savings, in prep to file. Upon learning that I couldn’t protect S5 from sexual abuse and incest, IF I was right about what could happen, I backed off, and determined to put myself in place as S5’s protector, in person, to never leave him alone with any of them... .husband, in laws. And that’s done well. I’m gaining proof of the risky, neglectful parenting on his part. The 15 ft. oak tree, the eclipse with no glasses, etc.

Over the years, with lawyer consultations, and normal expenses, (that he wouldn’t pay for), the funds from that account got depleted. It’s been dwindling since 2014. Normal
Expenses generally is used second hand household items, like bedding, clothing and shoes for myself and S5, especially S5, since he’s growing.

I say all that to say, he’s accusing me of spending an exact figure of $11,700. It’s bizarre. But scary too, because I know money had to be spent, necessities bought, and I’m the one home to handle this. He has steadily upped the amount of his check going into his private account. I suspect, so that I can’t make ends meet each month without dipping a little into savings for emergencies. There’s always those. And he always makes them my fault, that there’s not money in checking to cover those. I don’t know what to do with that. I jump through hoops and do a lot of running to multiple groceries to make sure I get things as cheaply as possible. Yet, S5’s special needs mean organic, non gmo grass fed food. I belong to food Co ops and wholesale groups, online discount mail order, it’s dizzing what I do to save money. But yet it’s sill “my fault”.

That seems to be his golden ticket, the hook he has on me, is the money. There are records of where it went though... .like $500 last month for a veggie share at the local
Farm. It equals out to $25 worth of organic produce a week, for only $18 a week... .through thanksgiving. I couldn’t buy that at the grocery for that price, and considering all the salmonella outbreaks, I prefer the Farm.

Sorry, I rambled. I’ve got to get some rest!
Thanks everyone.
Dig.

Thanks for the update, and good luck on the grad paper!  |iiii

Yes, you know he's trying to keep you on edge with money, yet frustratingly even knowing that, it's hard not to spend a bunch of time thinking about it!  I don't think any outside person would ever take you to task for buying vegetables for S5.  Just track your expenses, and try not to worry about it.  It sounds like you've got a very good handle on where the money goes.

Have you read, Don't Alienate the Kids, by Bill Eddy, yet?  Now, while you've got some time at your parent's house, would be a good time to do it.  It is specifically about child custody matters in high conflict divorces.  He goes into detail about how the high conflict parent can get lawyers, counselors and other professionals spun up against the "reasonable" parent, best strategies for the "reasonable" parent, etc.  One of the points he makes is that extreme positions like going for 100% custody often lead to protracted legal battles, in which 100% custody can actually flop between battling parents.  He says that in many cases, including some cases of suspected abuse, going for majority custody can be more successful (the "reasonable" parent is seen as a balanced person, not an extremist).  You are in a tough spot with your concerns of suspected abuse in your husband's family.  What type of custody arrangement would you be going for?  Would you be requesting supervised visitation for your husband?  (I'm not suggesting that you do, just hoping to better understand your goals).

WW

Thank you for helping me know where to go to learn.

I just bought it on Kindle to read. I have no idea what types of custody there is. I just don’t want S5 to be left unsupervised with him or his family, even if I have to be there myself. Somebody’s gotta be there, considering his risky parenting. I’d rather him come visit us, back in the house or somewhere neutral. But that’s probably not a type of custody.

I’d want sole medical decision making. He’d try to vaccinate him, and that’s rxtremely likely to cause vaccine injury with s5’s genetic makeup. There’s studies done on what he has , and a high connection to vaccine injury. He’d likely survive the measles more than the vaccine for it. That’s the biggest issue.  Other things like hand surgery, heart surgery, all can become fodder for conflict, with husband using S5 as a pawn. I shudder to think of it.

I’ll start reading!
Thanks!
Dig

And of course you need to keep all these legal strategies and suggestions between yourself and your lawyer.  All this is personal and confidential that you don't share with him.  Parenting information, information regarding bills and such things is okay, nothing more.  Once separation and divorce are contemplated, then the prior typical marital advice to share information doesn't apply.  That includes any demands he makes or forced interrogations, etc.

Excellent, I'm glad to hear you'll be reading the book.  I'm sure you'll be glad you did.  It's been a big help to me.

Got it, I suspected that you were hoping for supervised visits.  The trick is that supervised visits are very tough to get.  I'm not saying don't go for it -- but work with your lawyer regarding what's realistic.  Without solid evidence of abuse, it might be very tough.  You might get some mileage with the risky parenting angle, since supervised visits are generally done if there's physical or abuse risk, but typically after a period of things going well, the supervision requirement can be lifted.  Supervision can also be extremely shaming for the person being supervised, which could lead to a more combative legal stance.  It is unlikely you'd be accepted as a supervisor, since you're a party to the conflict.  Supervisors can be professional and nonprofessional (in my county at least).  You have to pay the professional ones.  The nonprofessional ones can be friends.  It gets expensive for professionals, and it gets hard to lean on friends for supervision for more than a short period of time.

Sorry to be throwing so many cautions at you, but better to know the info now and have time to incorporate it in your planning.  Take anything Bill Eddy or your lawyer say over me!

WW

Hi everyone,
I’ve beem reading up on the Bill Eddy books, they’re helpful, scary, but good.
I’ve been wondering... .what’s the “reasonable” parent appropriate arrangement to propose? There are some logistics issues for sure, compounded by scary possibilities of parenting behavior from him, extending to his closest friends and parents.
I’m wondering what any of you might come up with for suggestions?
Wentworth’s description of supervision does not sound realistic, long term, financially, and otherwise.

So the city we are living in, his parents are at least 3-4 hours away from us and mine are 16 (2 day drive). He has a good job there and it’s not transferable or feasible for that to be somewhere else. I haven’t worked since just before our wedding, back in 09.

1) Our house is a good sized mortgage. I could stay there and he could work out of the city his parents are in, that’s possoble, but less income.  He could stay with them and I could stay at the house. In a city alone, no grandparents, no support system. With a special needs kid who’d be better off home schooled due to his hearing loss. (Saw Pediatric audiology specialist last week)

2) I could come back home with my parents, send S5 to visit 16 hours away. I could stay at a campground or something, get a camper. S5 doesn’t need mommy to be 16 hours away, with the possibility of dangerous parenting from dad. Safety 16 hours away for me as a grown woman feels awful. Bill eddy speaks to this idea, of alienation, to avoid that with the kids... .but S5 KNOWS his daddy is dangerous. I don’t have to tell him. He knows it. “Daddy puts on his red Spiderman suit to play with you (himself), but puts on his black Spiderman suit to y’all to mommy”... .S5 was 3 years old when he came up with that.

Either way, if my main residence is in our current city or in my hometown, (16 hours away), his job is ON CALL. Out of town. He is home 48 hours once a week, that shifts forward one day every week, and even that is not predictable if those hours start late because he had not gotten back home yet. There are usually but not always, 3 trips back and forth out of town each week, with unpredictable down time in between. He may be home and awake 2 hours or 10. It’s not predictable.

I’m wondering how on earth we would have a reasonable visitation schedule? He does have 3 weeks of vacation each year, those change from year to year. He has to request weeks by November and they are awarded by seniority.

If seems unreasonable that I be made to live completely alone with no family to help. My family can’t move to me either. Yet it also seems unreasonable that my son not see his daddy, with such a distance between and such a crazy unpredictable work schedule.

Anybody know of what kinds of options there are? Or have I already exhausted them?

It may be a mute point, given the law in that state that says no parent sharing joint custody can live more than 59.9 miles from the original marital home. Geez.
Probably we’d both have to set up separate residences, with no family help nearby, and have to agree on a schedule to visit and stay with out of town family. I just don’t want S5 in my knlaws house alone, for any reason. But like a friend said, that case may have yo make itself... .something bad happen there before that visit is restricted.

I’m stumped for what to ask for.
Dig.

Hi Dignity&Strength, nice to meet you   I'm just now dropping in on your thread.

Good question:


And you also mentioned that your son is


I'm wondering if you might be in a better position right now for making "considerate" proposals than you think. It might depend on how flexible you're willing to be about holidays.

If Son is homeschooled (aside: I'm a homeschooling alum! yay homeschooling!), you might have some more flexibility in when he sees Dad than if he's in a school system. Of course, boilerplate parenting plan verbiage will probably say something like "the homeschool schedule will match the local school district schedule and no-school day calendar", but you don't necessarily have to propose sticking to boilerplate language. Parenting plan could say something like ":)ad will provide 72 hours notice to Mom of which of these weekdays he will be with son: Tuesdsay, Wednesday, or Thursday. Dad's parenting time will commence at 10am and end at 4pm (or whatever). Dad will pick up Son at 10am at X location and Mom will retrieve Son at 4pm at X location".

That might show you're willing to work with Dad's funky work schedule, but still maintain some really specific boundaries around it. I get that homeschooling isn't code for "no structure", but if you do go that route, you can use the inherent flexibility of HS to show that you support Son having Dad in his life (in this limited, structured way).

Ok, holidays: this could be another avenue to show some structured flexibility. Does your son's dad have set holidays off every year? Or is that also kinda up in the air?

Growing up, my dad had a job where he sometimes had to work all the major holidays. We got used to having Christmas early some years, and it was THE BEST as a kid! We were so excited when we "got" Christmas on the 22nd. I think for kids, the actual "day" of the holiday matters less than the doing of it. So, if Dad has Xmas off every year (for example), you could show a lot of "flexible structure" and have your PP say "Son will spend Dec 25 with Dad every year. Dad's PT will commence at 9am and end at 6pm, etc, etc, pickups, dropoffs, etc"

Aaaaand... .you always get to do Christmas first with son, on the 24th or something

DH and his xW worked out the PP that way too. The kids ALWAYS have the 25th with Mom, but they ALWAYS have the 24th with us. Not traditional, but hey, we always get Christmas first! Same with Halloween (always with Mom) and 4th of July (always with Mom, but DH gets 1st pick of either the 3rd or 5th). DH was able to let go of needing to have holidays on specific dates, in order to get Mom to agree to an actual PP.

These ideas might be predicated on you staying in your current city. If Dad's parents are ~2 hours away, and Dad has 1 day a week PT at their place, meeting in the middle might be a lot of driving, but potentially doable?

There's also Skype that you could potentially build into a PP. "Both parents may exercise up to X hours of Skype with Son during the other parent's PT (or "per week" or something), with 24 hours notice, during the hours of 9am and 5pm. Dad receives an additional Y hours of Skype with Son either on Saturday or on Sunday between A to B, with Z hours notice"

You're in a tricky situation -- how do you you safely support your son's relationship with his dad, without putting Son in an unsafe position or shutting out Dad? Hope some of these ideas are helpful food for thought. Remember you don't have to stick to boilerplate or traditional PPs if they don't work for your son's safety (i.e. "every other weekend and 6 straight weeks in the summer" is probably not a good fit). Remember you can think outside the box (could be really flexible about offering set holidays with great limits). And you can even tailor limits around what you know of Dad's unpredictable work schedule (PP including language about "with 72 hours notice, after that it's at Mom's discretion" etc).

Let us know if you want some more ideas or brainstorming... .I think you're working hard to do the right thing, and we'll be here for you.

kells76

Whatever you want, ask for more. That will give you some room to let him "win" his way back to what was acceptable to you all along.

Maybe propose that you move to new state because family and education situation is better, more stable. In my state, there are 9 criteria by which a family court permits an out-of-state move. Having family in another state, a good school system, health services for a child, better job prospects -- those all count. The fact you could move and have flexibility to travel half way back or all the way, may sweeten the pot.

Talk to your L, of course, but know that you can ask for what you think is best, tack some stuff on there that you are willing to give away, and add lots of flexibility to show you want your child to have a healthy relationship with his dad.

For what it's worth, I found that whenever I placed responsibility on my ex to do something with or for our son, he rarely if ever did it. I don't know why, but on this board, BPD fathers/exes seem to be less inclined to go the extra mile, altho there are of course exceptions. If you set up your custodial order so that your ex has to meet you halfway, it's quite possible he will fail to do so and then blame you for it. Which is fine, because you didn't want your son to go with him anyway 

Another option is to create a graduated plan. Say that S5 needs therapies in your home state (I think you mentioned this earlier), and that he will be in much better health in x years, and that dad should come to home state to attend these therapies during his time off. Maybe you offer to pay for therapies, and dad pays transportation. Then, in 2 years when S5 is making progress, you suggest making additional visits to dad's state pending his health.

Maybe something like that?

Also, bit of a side note, but there is a national program called Kidpower that's apparently geared toward family-based molestation, instead of the stranger danger education that many kids get in school.

Thank you, LNL, Kells76,
You both have given me wonderful ideas, somethings to keep in mind. At the very least, I can sort of see, it’s not completely impossible. That’s a start.

I have shifted gears, or switched pots to stir on the stove, in this situation.

I spent a good deal of time today, about 4 hours, completing the MOSAIC domestic violence threat assessment. It’s something I began last fall, but didn’t finish.

My husband called last night, strangely nice, as if nothing had happened, as if he hadn’t spent the last few days fussing at me. The reason for his call, I gathered, was he wanted to know what day I was coming back to our house. I told him which day I planned on leaving.

It occurred to me to check our phone logs last night. I thought, why does he want to know which day, it’s a half a month away? I thought, if he called his dad right after me, it may be a sign his dad is working on calls to lawyers for him. But no. The next call right after me wasn’t to his dad, it was to his evil buddy. The one who lives in a city I must drive through between my parents house and ours.

Here’s the clincher, the concern. This buddy mailed a package to the house that had a veiled threat to my life. In the form of a souvenir item. Bizarre. It was a bandana with symbols about violence and danger. He wrote across the top of the package, in red permanent marker, I know how this will be used. He mailed this last September maybe?

So, I’ve been careful, to never ever leave a trail, with credit cards or anything while
I’m making this trip. I always stay somewhere unexpected to him, and never tell him the true city I’m in for the night stay over in the middle. Just to prevent his buddy from coming to find me. Paranoid, huh? I feel safer that way, given the souvenir threat. The symbols said,”target, easy mark” and “man with a gun”. (Hobo symbol bandana)

Anyway, the very next call in the log, after he wanted to know what day I was traveling, was to this buddy.

So... .I completed The Mosaic threat assessment today. It’s extensive, thorough. And the history of events with our marrriage, when put into this assessment show, my husband is a significant danger.

My goal is to have all of this, as much as possible to my attorney by Monday. I’m hoping theres a way he can get a judge to let S5 and I stay here, because of the danger. That’s probably only a temporary fix though.

I need to get a jump on my own psychiatric evaluation, while I can choose someone and have access to funds to do it. Because this sounds like I am paranoid, I realize. But there is evidence, tangible and in photos, that show I have reason.

Mosaic threat assessment... .anybody familiar with that? Good or bad experience?
Dig

Dig,

I took MOSAIC.  I found that just taking it was an educational experience.  The questions they asked taught me a lot.  What was your score?

No, I don't think you're being overcautious about your travel plans and hiding your stopover location.  You don't have to *know* his buddy's going to do something.  Just the risk is enough to be cautious.  For you, that kind of caution is a good idea just like a seat belt is a good idea.

Regarding moving out of state, are you sure that 59.9 miles is a hard limit?  In many (most?) states if a parent wants to move away it triggers a judicial review if the other parent objects.  There's typically a list of criteria that judges use.  As crazy as it sounds, you might have a go at negotiating with your husband to see if you can get him to agree.  There are some great ideas on this thread.  I can imagine you putting together a pretty compelling proposal (at least to a judge's eyes) that includes the benefits of being with the grandparents, your need to live with them while you complete your training so you can support yourself, homeschooling, and your heroic efforts to be flexible and get your son to his dad around the train schedule.  As you are reading in Eddy's book, being seen as a parent who wants to support the other parent's parenting can be helpful.

It seems to me like living with your parents is so helpful to you and your son that it's worth being pretty dang creative to make it work for everyone and get it approved.  Try Googling "[your state] divorce moveaway rules".

WW

Do you still have that package? That's a clear threat and possibly illegal.  

MOSAIC was developed by Gavin de Becker and his firm.  He's very credible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_de_Becker

We recommend his book The Gift Of Fear (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=101561.0;all) here.

I read it a number of years ago before I landed here.  The number one thing that stood out to me was his repeated mantra: trust your gut.  Though it's dated by now,  he goes over a few high profile mass shootings where witnesses upon initial interviews stated "he was a nice guy.  We didn't see this coming." Upon further investigation, it turns out that there were  red-flag . There are almost always red flags, but we are conditioned, unconsciously, to often ignore them.  He especially focuses upon telling women to trust their guts.

He also wrote a book for parents,  Protecting The Gift, which I thought was decent.  

Goodness, you guys are on top of things! Thank you!

So MOSAIC is highly reputable! That’s both encouraging and stomach churning, as my score was a 9 out of 10. Quality score was 183 out of a possible
200. I spent from lunch to supper on it today.

Fear... .there’s a lot about not giving in to it, especially in Christian radio these days, but I agree, Turkish, it is a gift. But it feels like 8 shots of espresso and digestive upset. It is no fun. My body has been stuck in this fearful fight of flight mode for many years now.

I’ll add it to my kindle ASAP.

I do not still have the package, but I took lots of pictures, looked up false names and made the personal connection between the false names and who sent it. I also have emails with Jose attachments to my local domestic violence detective, who is “keeping it all on file for me”.  (But nothing is done? Sigh) I suppose that’s because he knows how securely and for what reason I’m protecting S5.
Thanks everyone. I am staying ahead of this curve because of you all.
Dig

It's an easy read (short).  Let me know what you think and keep us updated. 

Dig,

9 out of 10 is impressive.  I've only heard from a handful of people here who've taken it, but that's the first time I've heard of a 9.  That would explain the indigestion.  I am so sorry you're living with that level of pressure.  You had a great idea in your earlier reply about documenting the MOSAIC test and giving it to your lawyer.  At least I think you said that.

You mentioned getting a psychiatric assessment.  I'm thinking you want an assessment by a psychologist, MFT, or LCSW who is an expert in domestic violence.  Only a small percentage of therapists actually understand domestic violence.  If you end up in front of the wrong guy, you might find someone who says it's all a part of the "family system" or it's all you.  Your lawyer may know someone, or a lawyer in the next larger city.  When you're interviewing candidates, ask them to explain Erik Stark's work on coercive control

WW

Ah ha!

These last resources have provided and excellent framework to describe this situation.
I found a good Stark video explaining coercive control. That, put together with the power and control wheel explains nearly exactly what’s happening, to me.

The gift of fear book gave me a huge ah ha moment! I’ve been trying to describe the actual most escalated incidents, but left out the context of the behaviors before and leading up to it. I thought brevity and efficiency were most important. While it’s important not to be wordy, the CONTEXT is everything. No context equals, “so what, big deal, he took your son up a tree... .what’s your problem?”

Back to my documentation, gotta tweak and work on it some more!
Excellent resources gang! Thanks SO SO much!

Dig

Dig,

You make a fantastic point about context!  As I've mentioned, I took my journals and boiled them down to summaries with 3-4 line bullet points describing each incident and the date, and grouped the bullet points under different headings for each tactic or type of abuse.  This was very useful to show the totality of what was going on, and along with a few key assault videos has been the main way I've told my story.  But after relying on the bullet points and leaving the journals idle for a while, I went back to them to cut and paste the journal days that described the videos, to give them context.  I was shocked at how much difference context made.  To see a few of the worst days, when there were a dozen incidents in a day using six different tactics, is truly stunning.  Eyes glaze over after a while at the summaries, but the humanity in the journal day entries is impossible to ignore.  I'm thinking the best combo may be summaries combined with a few of the most important journal days.  So the reader really understands that all of those bullet points is part of a continuing awful story.

WW

*mod*
This topic has been split due to length, and continued here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=328081.0;all