BPDFamily.com

Good morning to all!   

My youngest son, I'll refer to us YS28, is engaged to a uBPD.  They have blessed us with our first grandchild, a grandson 2 years old now.  A few weeks ago we had a big blow-up with both of them.  My husband and I babysit for our GS2 twice a week.  After the day was over and they came home, this is when the blow up occurred.  It was 99% of me doing all the yelling at the two of them.  The trigger was that plans for our GS2 2nd birthday were not being expressed by either one of them and (as usual) we felt excluded as we have many times before. I do not do well expressing my anger.  I know I have anger issues and need to work on this and said things deliberately to hurt her.  I am certainly not proud of that.  In fact, I am quite ashamed. 

I stayed angry; however, because it really hurt to be excluded from plans they were making and not including us.  Her parents were included in all of the plans.  I went to see my T a week or so after the blow up and she asked if I had apologized to my son.  I answered yes as he calls me on his way home from work about 3 times a week.  We spoke about it (not yelled) and I told him I was sorry for it, needed to work on my anger, etc., and he apologized for his part in the yelling, etc.   We were good.  The T then asked if I apologized to my son's uBPD fiance.  My answer was no.  She asked why and my response was I didn't feel she deserved it. 

I said that because I felt so hurt inside for the exclusion and the way everything occurred for our GS2's birthday that I felt she did this deliberately and just wanted it to be her parents included.  I still believe this to this day.

My T asked me to consider something.  She said, let's stay in your head only.  It's about doing the right thing.  What does your head tell you to do?  What is your belief system about what should be done in the role you played in this blowup.  It has nothing to do with her response to an apology, nothing to do with her or family's beliefs, reactions, etc.  It is not about what you will receive back.  It is only about you and what is in your own head. 

I found this impossible to do at that time and told her I would think about it.  She also pointed out that it seemed with all the information I have given her about my son's uBPD fiancee that she did not have a positive female influence in her life.  She wondered what it would look like if I just picked up the phone one day and asked her and I to take my GS2 to the zoo together.  At that point, I thought it would look like insanity!  Myself and her alone for a period of time?  No, no way.

I am happy to say that I have been thinking about the apology and yesterday morning woke up feeling that is what I indeed should do, simply because it is within my belief system and it was the right thing.  I texted her a message telling her how sorry I was for losing my temper and was very sorry for hurting her.  I admitted I have a problem with anger and for myself as well as my loved ones, am working on changing that.  I told her when I was wrong, I believed in saying I was wrong. 

She texted back a very nice message saying thank you for the apology, she was glad to hear I was working on my anger and at the end of the day we are still family.  She also apologized about any misunderstandings that took place over our GS2's birthday plans and was sorry for any hurt she caused. 

I was obviously quite pleased with the response as I expected to receive nothing from her really.  So pleasantly surprised.

The problem lies in this:  Do I expect her to change?  No.  Do I want to stick my hand in the cage again, so to speak, and get bit again.  No.  Do I want to socialize with them when different events come up?  No, for fear things will go south again. 

I know all of the people here have had a person with BPD in their life and can relate to this.  All is peaceful at this moment.  I want it to stay that way.  In order to do this, I feel just going to babysit our GS2 twice a week and phone conversing with our son is the only way to ensure that peace will remain. 

Any thoughts or opinions on where do we go from here? 

 Your therapist is wise  :)

I'm glad that you took the time to consider it.  As my T told me, "there's nothing wrong with being kind."

A soft answer turns away wrath. 

Thanks Turk!

I love the quote you posted.  So, so true!

... .but a harsh word stirs up anger

Yes Wolfish indeed has some very good quotes :)

I am glad your T is helping you deal with all of this Angie59. I think you made the right move here by reaching out to your son's fiancée and apologizing for you losing your temper like that |iiii You doing this sets a proper example of what to do when our behavior is not in line with our values and is also an action that can help end the cycle of conflict and dysfunction.


I can understand that the thought of you possibly being deliberately excluded can be uncomfortable. You love your grandson and I understand that you would find it nice to be part of planning his birthday to make it a very special day for him. I do want to ask you one thing though, do you feel like your son and his fiancée are obliged to include you in the planning of your grandson's birthday?

If her parents were not involved in the planning, would you then still have felt hurt and gotten this angry?


Having realistic expectations is very important when dealing with BPD family-members and so is taking steps to protect yourself and preserve your well-being. If you do not want to do something, that is ok too, it is your choice to make and you have the right to make choices to protect yourself.


Pehaps this is a good strategy for now if this works for you. Would you be ok with this level of contact with your son and grandson?

As you work on your own issues and focus on your on behavior and responses, in time you might feel more comfortable interacting with your son and partciularly also his fiancée.

Hello Kwamina!   

Good to hear from you!  I need to clarify something regarding your question about the GS2's birthday.  It was not the "planning" that I was upset about really; it was no invite at all.

What happened was one evening my husband received a text from my son's uBPD fiancee asking only this:  "Can you rent a condo with your membership?"  He said to me, I guess she's talking about the lake, so he replied, "No."  (We have a different membership to the lake resort than they do).  She then asked, "Can you rent a trailer?"  My husband replied, "Yes, but they are really in bad shape."  Texting then ended.  She never really explained what the questions were about, never mentioned GS2's birthday and plans to celebrate it at the lake, etc.  Just this communication and this only. 

A few days later when she came home from work and we were babysitting I asked her about it.  I did not yell, raise my voice or anything, but in a normal tone just asked, "hey what is going on with GS2's birthday?  Were you going to have it at the lake or something?"  She did what she always does when she responds to me.  She starts stammering, backing away, sometimes laughs nervously, just tries to get away from the subject at hand.  She replied, "I don't know yet.  You guys said you didn't want to go, so I don't know what's going on yet."  I said, "No, wait.  We never said we didn't want to go.  We only had those two text messages you sent, so we didn't know what was going on."  She just waved me off, while heading for the house and just kept saying she didn't know. 

I didn't care about "planning" it.  I don't even care if she "planned" it with her mom.  My mom and I were extremely close and I can understand that.  However, what I would have done, and did do when my kids were younger, is let my husband's parents know the same time I spoke with my own mom and made sure they were included in the plans, thus inviting them to do whatever it was I planned.  This did not happen with us.  The subject was dropped.  The plans were made and they went to the lake with her parents and celebrated his birthday - without us or talking to us about it.

I hope this clarifies why I was so hurt.  It is in my wording that made the confusion because I kept saying "planning."  All we actually wanted was an invite.

Thanks Kwamina for your reply!  I always enjoy hearing from you and your questions make me think! 

Whoops!  Forgot one of your other questions.  You asked if the contact I described was okay for me right now and my answer is yes.  Seeing our GS2 twice a week (we spend about 10-11 hours a day with him), so it is plenty for us with a 2-year-old!   

Do I wish it were different and we could do other things with him and his uBPD fiancee and/or parents?  I would absolutely love that!  However, I know the unpredictability of her behavior is always going to be there and I feel at peace right now and don't want to get upset or angry again at her behavior.  Kind of what I don't know or see won't hurt me kind of thing.  We are good with each other right now, but to go further, it's risky.  A risk I don't want to take right now.  Again, there is also a problem with the GD4 and her behavior (bullying) with GS2 and the parents do not do anything about it.  It infuriates myself, husband and my older son.  The grandparents (her parents) don't do anything about it or say anything.  They laugh and say she is just trying to toughen him up. 

The behavior demonstrated is so, so unfair to our GS2 and it seems like the parents and grandparents are all afraid of the GS4 and her throwing a fit if they correct her.  It is terrible to watch.  If I speak up, or my husband or son say anything, then we will probably be in hot water, and so it goes, on and on and on. 

I know it is not realistic right now to freeze this point in time where everyone is okay with everyone else, but it is a huge risk in my own mind to go any further with it and end up regretting it later that we even tried. 

Angie- you did the right thing. An apology isn't about whether or not the other person deserves it. It is us, living up to our own values. An apology is also not grovelling or being a doormat. It is actually a healing process- for you.

When we violate our higher self, we feel badly about it- because we let ourselves down. Yet, we are humans and we make mistakes sometime. Basically when you lost your temper and yelled, you let your own self down by sinking to a level that you don't feel is where you should be. An apology repairs that- for you.

An apology should not be contingent on what the other person does about it. Your DIL has a choice. She can continue to be angry and not accept it, or she can accept it, but you have done the right thing by you. The person who apologizes gets the benefit.

In the 12 step programs making amends is part of the recovery process. The statement is to be willing to make an apology as long as the apology does not cause harm to any person.  So, some apologies are not appropriate as you can imagine but in your circumstance is was.

You acted out of hurt. There is a statement "hurting people hurt others" . I think it is true because in that moment, you were in Victim mode. You felt justified to lash out and be hurtful because you felt justifiably hurt. As you said you have an anger management issues and part of this is feeling justified to hurt back at someone who has hurt your feelings. But this logic is not a good way to manage anger. If someone is threatening bodily harm to you, in that moment you should defend yourself, but if it is about hurt feelings, you don't have to hurt back to manage the situation.  When we feel hurt ( Victim) and lash out ( Persecutor) we end up on the Drama Triangle.

Don't be down on yourself. If we see that we made an error and didn't handle something the right way, we can change. Your DIL may not change and you can't expect her to, but we can learn better ways to handle our feelings. It's a work in progress- we don't get to where we are perfect--- but better is progress.

Thank you Notwendy for the kind words.  I do feel good about my apology and your words made me feel even better! 

Angie- I am glad you are feeling better.

Do you have plans to handle your anger management issues? These can be intergenerational. When we grow up in a family that has a certain style or dysfunction, what we see feels normal to us. Our parents role model how to handle conflict. We only know what we are taught growing up. If our parents role modeled anger issues, then they probably learned it from their parents. The good news about knowing this is that - once aware- we can learn new behaviors. We can break the cycle. Even though your son is grown, it isn't too late for you to learn and make changes in your part of the pattern.

I've mentioned my H's family. His family went two ways: his father had anger issues, and could blow up ( he wasn't physically violent thankfully) and his enabling mother tiptoed around him and if there was an issue- it was not discussed outwardly but the family took on passive aggressive behaviors. Members in his family do not have emotionally healthy ways of handling conflict as they were not role modeled for them. ( and they are not all dysfunctional people- just people who don't have tools to deal with conflict in a productive way). My H managed conflict like his parents did. He either would not discuss it at all ( like his mother) until it just kept bothering him and then he blew up like his father and yelled and said mean things. He had no intention of hurting me, but due to my own fears growing up with BPD mother, his yelling scared the daylights out of me, like she did while it was normal in his family. People would yell mean things, it was over like it didn't happen. My H expected me to do this too ( as his family did) but I remained scared and hurt. ( due to my family).

In my family, if BPD momma wasn't happy, nobody was happy and there was no guessing as she was screaming and raging. Enabler Dad would comply with her to keep the peace. So I had two role models- raging mother and compliant enabling father and since I didn't want to be like my mother, I handled conflict like my father.

As you can predict, my H and I were two people with dysfunctional ways of handling conflict that came together in basically the same kind of balance as our parents. I was the one who wanted to change and by changing my behavior and some MC we were able to break some of the emotionally destructive behaviors.

Learning new behaviors isn't comfortable. It feels odd, because it isn't our pattern. We do what feels "right " to us but the familiar patterns are actually dysfunctional. We have to practice new ways and we may make errors but with practice it can be done. I hope you will find support - like through your T, to help you do this. You  are doing what you grew up with and now you are aware that there are better ways to manage anger and you can learn them.

I think it will help you to examine what "hurts" you. If someone isn't in your face threatening you, then they may not be hurting you but you feel hurt anyway. Often we are hurt by an expectation of someone that isn't met, or we make meaning out of something that wasn't intended.

Take this event: I stayed angry; however, because it really hurt to be excluded from plans they were making and not including us.  Her parents were included in all of the plans.

Your son and his fiancee can make any plans they want. They don't have to include you. It would be nice if they did, but they don't have to. It may not have even been about you- they may have wanted to make their own plans. It is you that felt hurt because they were not doing what you wanted them to do, but they don't have to. This is a boundary- they get to choose the party plans for their son and who to include and not to include. You may feel hurt by this, but that part is on you. You can have some expectations- that you are treated courteously when they are with you, but what they do with their child's birthday is theirs to decide on.

Just because one set of parents is included, that doesn't mean everyone is. The fiancee may actually feel more comfortable with her own mother- she knows you don't approve of her.

What is the impact of your anger method on your son and fiancee? For your son, it may feel normal to have someone yelling- and he may yell himself, or be compliant and avoid conflict if your H did that. I don't know how your fiancee grew up, but yelling is probably going to get her into victim mode. Yelling at a pwBPD can result in large reactions.  How does your son's fiancee feel when she is "hurt". Possibly bigger than you intended it to be.

Hello Notwendy!

Boy, are you ever right about repeating the same pattern as our parents did regarding anger.  I know I should did!  I only have 2 sessions left with my T so I'm not real sure how much we can accomplish in this time, but maybe she will able to point me in the right direction regarding some resources for myself to use and practice.  I guess it will have to be through a self-help course for me. 

I was once told by another T that I saw long ago that feelings were neither right nor wrong, they just were.  The reason I say this is because of what you said about my son and his uBPD fiancee being able to make their own plans regarding GS2's birthday, include her parents and if they don't include us, then that's their right.  Since my husband and I are a part of GS2's life (we see him 20+ hours within a 48-hour period of time), every Thursday and Friday, it was very hurtful to us that we were not invited to celebrate his birthday and her parents were. 

If my son, his fiancee and GD4 went off to do their own thing to celebrate his birthday, that would be different.  However to go off and celebrate his birthday and include one set of grandparents and not the other was indeed very hurtful to us.  I'm not sure just how many grandparents out there would feel okay with that.  In my opinion, based on how I described it on my original post, it to me seemed she shot 2 quick questions at us and just because what she asked didn't work, she went on without us without any explanation at all; really not even what she talking about to begin with.

I really felt she interpreted the two quick answers to her two vague questions, that she ran with this and that was her way of keeping us out. 

This is not the first hurtful thing that she has done and I know with this serious mental illness, it will not be the last.  That is why I am trying to figure out what to do next.  It feels like we just need to keep it where it is now, see our grandson on Thursdays and Fridays to keep that connection with him, which is extremely important to us.  I told my T this and told her that the dysfunctional way things operate within their family dynamics, I see the potential for issues coming up for our grandson in the future as he gets older.  I felt it important to provide him with a safe, loving environment to come to if he ever wanted to talk about anything.  My T said she felt I was right about that.  She has seen many children, as yourself, who were raised with a BP parent and yes, they do indeed need counseling and have issues.  We want to be there for our grandson if things get rough in the future for him.

I truly believe that the manner in which this whole thing occurred with GS2's birthday could have been handled much differently.  All she had to do was explain why she was asking the questions and wanted to somehow include us.  Instead she ran with the two questions and decided it was a No, which it was not on our part, and never spoke about his birthday again.  I know you feel differently about it is their business if they want to make plans without us, but when others are invited, especially the other set of grandparents. 

I do agree she feels more comfortable with her own parents and that is certainly understandable, but to deliberately leave us out of our grandson's birthday celebration was just plain mean.  I'm going to stop here, because I feel the anger coming on again and I don't want that.  I just want to put it to rest and move forward - whatever moving forward means.

Angie- although you feel that she should have handled the birthday plans differently- she did what she did, and really who knows her reasons. Maybe she did intend to be hurtful to you, or maybe she had other reasons. Trying to make our own interpretation of someone with BPD's thinking is not really productive. Their thinking is distorted and IMHO it is better to let what they do/say be about them than to take it personally.

You also know that when you are babysitting you could have your own little birthday celebration with him. Bring cupcakes, sing some songs.

A relationship is about time spent, not just some moments. It is good that you are a constant loving presence in your GS's life. Although my mother disliked my father's FOO ( it was mutual) being home with kids all day stressed her out and so she was happy to send us kids to stay with them during school breaks. I recall my time with them as some of the best times. We were happy and free of worry about setting off my mother's bad moods over the slightest childhood antic At my father's FOO- we still had to behave well and not do bad things,  but if we weren't perfect- they loved us anyway. We could act like kids, even do mischievous things with our cousins and feel safe and loved. My time with my Dad's family was a chance to be normal for a while. You can be that normal for your GS growing up. If you aren't there for birthday or holiday celebrations, that will have a lesser impact on him than your presence in his life in regular day to day events and you can always do something special for a special event when you are there. It's also not about gifts- they can be small or even just having cake and ice cream with him. He needs unconditional love more.

If this is your goal- keep an eye on that purpose. If you let the fiancee's petty or inconsiderate behavior anger you, then you have given her too much power. There is a saying that resentment is allowing someone to occupy your thoughts. Letting go of resentment is not for the other person- it helps you.

You're T is correct that children of dysfunctional parents are at risk for having emotional problems. However what problems and how much impact it has is variable. Resilience is a factor and there are many things that contribute to a child's resiliency including their own natural resiliency that they were born with. Some kids are just more sensitive than others. It is also possible for two good parents to have a child that develops emotional or behavior problems.

Rather than feel you have to prevent future problems for your GS, maybe focusing on helping develop his resiliency would make this feel less of a responsibility for you. I credit my father's family for some of my resiliency. They didn't shield me from my mother's behavior- that would have been impossible but they loved me unconditionally and role modeled behavior that was not dysfunctional. Basically- they were just being who they are- and included me with their family.

this is very true. actions that we take based on our feelings, or conclusions we come to about our feelings, or about the other person involved, are different things.


i can see both of your perspectives on this. i think a reasonable interpretation of your husbands texts was that there was no interest/willingness to participate in the planning of the party. i also think it was clearly the wrong conclusion. i think a reasonable interpretation of her questions is that she wanted your input and participation. the fact that she didnt follow up, or clarify could reasonably be interpreted as her not having interest in including you - im not sure thats the same as intentionally running with it and leaving you out; one doesnt necessarily follow the other.

sometimes these things are just a misunderstanding.

Thanks for the good points and things to ponder.  I especially need to remember that a BP's way of thinking is distorted and that some of their words or actions are not even about us personally.  I have to keep that at the forefront of my mind.

We (my husband, myself, and our older son) have already planned our own birthday celebration when we see our GS2 tomorrow.  We will be giving him his first trike which will really be exciting as well as a helmet to go with it.  We went and got birthday decorations all in his favorite Daniel Tiger theme, balloons, and a few other little things for him to open and have fun with.  It will be a fun day for all of us and most of all, will be some quality alone time with him.

The future is uncertain for us as to how to handle any social invites that may come up.  This is mainly, as I believe I mentioned before, the way GS4 is allowed to behave and act out towards our GS2.  He is half her age and definitely half her weight and my son's uBPD fiancee as well as my son witnesses such behaviors as pushing him down to the ground, taking and using, sometimes breaking his toys, running into a room and deliberately knock him over on the way, even throw things when she is given a time out that could easily break something or injure GS2.  Her other set of grandparents literally laugh about this behavior and say she is just "pissed off" that she has to do something she doesn't want to.  They also view her mean behavior toward GS2 as "trying to toughen him up."  What?

So there is a team of 4 for GS4 and no one standing up for GS2. 

This attitude (of the parents and grandparents) is very disturbing to us and hurts us to witness.  We cannot control any of this and all three of us feel the only answer is to avoid socializing with them.  This will, of course, be confusing to my son especially because he knows of my apology to his fiancee and her response back so he feels everything is okay now. 

Having a relationship with our son and GS just shouldn't be this hard!  It feels exhausting.  Maybe it will be the next topic to discuss with my T when I see her again.

 

They say apples don't fall far from the tree, and that bunch sounds like rotten apples.

You have apologized but that doesn't mean no boundaries on social events that you feel uncomfortable with. I don't think it is necessary to explain why to your son or his fiancee- in fact, I think it is better not to.

Whenever you make a point- "I don't want to do this because of someone else"- you are putting yourself in victim mode.

Another way is to simply make other plans. It isn't "I don't want to attend" but "thank you for the invitation, we have made other plans. I hope you have a great time" and then, do something you want to do. This puts you in the position to choose.

For some events, you may have to choose to not let them ruin an occasion for you. If it is a school play ,and you want to see your GS in the play- go- whether they are there or not. If you avoid them, you let them ruin your pleasure of being there. But for something like sitting around a family get together watching GS4 bully GS 2 and not feeling you can intervene- make other plans because you are just going to get aggravated.

I know you want to be there for your GS, but the more you invest in your own separate life- independent from your son and his life, the less their behavior will bother you. I agree it is important to be there for him to some extent, but he has parents who are ultimately responsible for him and you can not control their choices. You are not being a neglectful grandmother if you have your own independent interests and activities. In fact, being over involved in your son's issues could be an invasion of their boundaries.

I don't know if my experience with calling social services on my parents when I didn't think he was getting adequate care at home was mentioned on this thread, but they told me that my father was mentally competent to make his own decisions. He chose to comply with my mother in a situation that I didn't think was good for him.  But it was not my decision to make and my stepping into their business was overstepping their boundaries and they didn't like it. Your son is mentally competent and he chose his fiancee and is the father of your GS. It is his job to stop the child from being bullied by his older sister.

Your anger and resentment of the situation is understandable ,but in the long run, is it really helping the situation? Is it helping you? I get that you feel having a relationship with your GS shouldn't be that hard. What could you possibly change about that? If you stuck to babysitting, it would be just you and your husband and him. Maybe that would be the best  thing to do. Staying out of the drama triangle will make this less hard, and also not comparing. So the other grandparents may get more, or the older sister may get more attention, but it isn't a contest. When you are with GS, it's your time. That's what counts for you.

They may not deserve it but getting rid of your anger and resentment for your son's issues due to his choices would be a gift to you- you deserve it.

Thanks Notwendy!  That sounds perfectly reasonable to me in handling situations in the future. 

In reading what you said, it got me to thinking why things have been exceptionally hard for me in dealing with this whole relationship of my son and his uBPD fiancee.  I think that I have made my whole life my family.  From the time my 2 sons were born and all the way through I was all about motherhood, family, and family activities.  Therefore, it didn't really leave any room for me.  What do I like to do?  What activities can my husband I do together that we enjoy?  I don't want to sound like the proverbial, "I need to find myself," but I do need to take inventory here of who I really am, and what things do I like, which in turn will indeed take the focus off of my son and his fiancee's relationship, just as you said.  Right now this is the main focus of my life. 

Thank you again for another eye-opener Notwendy.  You have been very helpful!

 |iiii  :thought:

Yes! Find what you love, Angie. If you are looking for suggestions, I can recommend bicycling. It makes me feel like a kid again. If you don’t like being on the road, a cruiser bike or mountain bike (check garage sales, etc.) is a great choice.

 I find the freedom achieved from powering my own way forward provides opportunities for focus, relaxation, fitness and bubling out of my heart joy!

Sending you love and good wishes for peace.

I bought an adult bike and a teen BMX type bike from my neighbors at a garage sale last year for $75. I overcame my hatred of garage sales to walk across the street to check it out (my BPD hoarder mother was always dragging me along to them when I was a kid). Change is a good idea to redirect one's energy.  

Notwendy has given you a very good blueprint for your future... .it's not about them it's about you, your husband and the relationship with your GS as well as your own mental health.  Pick what social things you are comfortable with, have other obligations for those you are not.
You cannot control them, nor can you change them (your son and DIL), but you can control how you react to and interact with them. Learning how to control my own actions and reactions was a large step on my own process. Boundaries, understanding them and using them are your friend.      

Angie- I could say the same thing about raising children. They have been my focus and it is challenging to rediscover hobbies that were once put aside.  I've done some volunteer work.  Exercise is also important, although I think I should do more of it. Just finding something that you can do that is your thing will help - and it could be service to others if that is your interest- maybe the local schools , theater groups, orchestra, zoo, animal shelter, charity, or museum would appreciate your volunteering a few hours a week.  

Thank you everyone for your replies, suggestions and most of all support.  I truly appreciate each and every one of you!   

I'm seeing myself as a work in progress!

Well, my last post left me feeling in a good place.  Looking forward to finding new interests and things my husband and I could enjoy together in the days to come. 

Today is Friday, so it was a babysit GS2 day for us.  We walked into a situation where my son was there, his uBPD fiancee was also there (unusual as she is usually gone by this time), and her and GD4 in a battle about getting ready for school and no she could not have the tablet (yes, for those of you who have been following my story, the same tablet with nude/bondage pics of mommy on there).  When GD4 was told she could not have the tablet, she threw it to the ground, picked up a chair and threw it, along with some other objects at which time I heard a loud slap from her mother to GD4.  Very, very disturbing situation. 

Interesting that uBPD son's fiancee said she will never allow herself to be alone with my husband and I again because of the past blowup we had with her, as if she is afraid to be with us.  I was reprimanded by my son that he does not like me yelling (referring to the blowup) in front of his kids; however, what I witnessed this morning, "yelling" would have been putting it mildly.  Guess the same rules don't apply to us as they do to his fiancee?

My husband and I are in quite a situation here with a big decision we need to make.   Any and all of your opinions, suggestions, questions, whatever, are welcome because we truly do not know what to do with this situation.

We watch our GS2 every Thursday and Friday, each day averaging about 10-11 hours.  Very, very uncomfortable furniture which plays a big part because my husband has been through two failed back surgeries.  I'm just plain out of shape, so it takes its toll on me as well.  I think that long of a day with a 2-year-old would take its toll on anyone even if the furniture was the best ever.  To put it bluntly, watching GS2 is taking a toll on us physically (especially for my husband), and physically and mentally on me.

I have come to know the ways of BP sufferers very well, at least the ways of my son's uBPD fiancee.  It kind of goes like this:  Make me mad or do something that is not to my convenience, and I will hit you where it hurts the most.  (She knows that place is our grandson).

We are hanging in there with the babysitting  because we are afraid that she will be so angry that she will now have to actually pay someone to watch him those two days and that they will have to take him to that location, unlike leaving him in his pjs and wet diaper as they do on the two days we are there.  Putting out the money especially will anger her and even though she may say she understands, I feel strongly that GS2 will, even if slowly, drift away from us.

This may sound like the cognitive distortion of "mind-reading" what someone else will do.  I have thought this through very carefully and while we don't know what someone else will do for sure, I feel very confident that she will hinder the relationship we now have with GS2.  She is someone who retaliates when hurt, angered, etc., and she knows our soft spot is GS2, where she can hurt us the most.  We are so scared of losing contact with him as well as with our son.

Any replies will be appreciated.  We just feel so helpless right now.

 

Angie-

It would help to clarify what it is you wish to do. I realize the babysitting is hard on you and your H physically. Do you want to cut it down to one day a week, not do it at all, or do shorter days. Yes, there may be consequences on the part of the fiancee but before thinking about what she would do, it would help to know exactly what you want to do with the babysitting arrangements.

10-11 hours straight with a toddler is physically challenging and that it a consideration for you and your H. It isn't a personal thing ( they may make it one) but a reality and it would help to know the solution that you wish to have.

Good point Notwendy! 

I guess I don't know myself what we are wanting.  Shorter hours would be great, but that would mean they would have to find a sitter for the remaining hours and I believe if they have to put money out, then why not just leave him there all day.  The other problem is they would have to figure out how to transport him from the other sitter back home with us whenever our hours come up or end, or however, it would work.  They can't leave work and do that every day, so it would be up to us.  They do not allow us to have GS2 in our car because my husband smokes in it.  (He would not smoke with any child in the car; they are referring to third-hand smoke) and just being exposed to the smell. 

We could ask about cutting down to one day a week.  I guess that would be a compromise.  However, the reason I feel we are operating out of fear right now is because I have been around my son's uBPD fiancee for 4 years now and I do believe that anything less than what we are now doing would set her off and she would just say forget the babysitting altogether.  I have thought this before over other circumstances that have come up and she did exactly what I thought - retaliation - hurt them back, etc... .  That is why the whole GS2's birthday exclusion occurred.  She does not like me to call her out on her behavior and that is exactly what I did prior to the exclusion of going to the lake. 

I made a remark on Mother's Day as well, which was prior to the blowup and not getting invited to GS2's birthday.  Sometimes, it just comes out of my mouth because I believe what we are supposed to sit back and listen to is just about impossible for a parent not to have a reaction to, at least for me it is. 

The man she went out of country with, the same man whose pictures we saw on the tablet where she was in his bedroom scantilly dressed, and she has a nice portrait of him and her on the front of the tablet.  With all this knowledge in our heads, she went to take a nap before she had to go to the bar to work (where she first met him).  When she awoke, she sat down on the couch and said she should probably make a plate for him and get going.  I replied, "Why in the world do you have to make a plate for him?" 

I know my son has to make his own decisions and make his own choices, and if he puts up with it, then we should not be commenting.  I know that makes perfect sense, but it sure is hard for a parent to do when it is right in front of your face what is going on and how your kid is being treated so horribly.

Sorry, off track there.  I guess at this point any alternative of babysitting GS2 is out of the question for her other than what we are presently doing.  I don't think they will make any kind of exceptions to the rule, etc.  I believe it will be taken badly by her because now $$ will be going out that are not now.  At least I don't think so.  She may be paying her mom to babysit and just not us.  Who knows at this point? 

I guess we would like to do what many grandparents do in the way of visiting him, just keeping him a part of our lives, but that will be all under her control and why would she do anything at this point just to be nice to us or make us happy?  Don't see that happening.  Thus, we feel trapped.

I hope I answered what you were asking.  Thanks Notwendy.

 

When thinking about this, don't bundle it in with the issues with your son's fiancee. The rules are not the same. She can yell, put naked pictures on her tablet. If you were to act like her, it would diminish you. Don't yell, because it isn't a good thing for you to do ( and no naked pictures of grandma on the tablet either   )

This is a physical issue. Even with the best parents, having a grandparent watch a toddler 10-11 hours at a time is physically strenuous for a grandparent. There are possible solutions, but you and your H need to decide on what solution is best for the two of you, independent of the issues in your son's family.

Some of them might be- reduce hours, reduce days a week, have child go to preschool/mother's morning out program so it isn't all day, have another sitter, purchase a nice chair for grampa ( I recall there were issues over that, but if he needs a certain chair it seems you would have to buy it) .

It is less important what option you choose than for you to decide what options work for you. If you don't want to do it at all, be honest with that. If you think more than one option works for you- you can present that to them. But before discussing how to do that, first you need to establish what your wishes and needs are- physically- not about her behavior.

I guess I cross posted with you and so it seems the solution that does work best is to not be the regular babysitter and visit like a regular grandparent would. Looks like a compromise - half day- is messy and you not being able to drive him makes it not possible to take him to and from pre-school.

Here is where the fear comes in. The resentment at having to pay for sitting, but honestly- that is his parents' responsibility.

I think the sitting is a source of resentment for you. You are providing something for them that they are responsible for, and yet you really don't want to do it in the situation you have. They won't compromise to make it easier on you. They are being inconsiderate in your eyes and this is causing resentment.

When I worked on co-dependency issues, I was taught to recognize that when I felt resentment, I was doing something out of fear or obligation, and compromising what I needed to do for me.

You are in a tough place. You fear the consequences of not babysitting, but also you are creating resentment for yourself when you do.

These kinds of decisions are not easy to make. If you do opt out of the babysitting, it would be best to make it as objective and impersonal as possible- and stay focused on the fact: This is physically too much. State what you would like to do: We love you and GS and want to stay in your lives as grandparents, not as regular babysitters. Then do not react to the response.

It may be temporary, it may be longer term. She may pitch a fit and be vindictive. The paid babysitting situation isn't perfect either. Sitters can quit, get sick. 

The parallel with my parents was when my father got sick. I would pay to get someone to watch my own children, drive a distance to help out, while she would yell at me. Eventually it did take a physical and emotional toll on me- all that driving, no rest when I got there. I also needed to be there for my own family and children. Did she care? No ,I had to care. I had to say no. She pitched a fit. But my own kids needed a mother who was not worn out and who was there for them. It was a terrible choice. I loved my father and wanted to help him, but the circumstances were not good for me. If I didn't stand up for me, my own needs, who would? Not my mother. Looking to her for consideration of them is not a productive thing to do.

I don't think looking to your son and his fiancee for consideration is going to be productive for you. I know you love your GS, but you have the right to take care of yourself and your H has the right to take care of his physical health.

This is so hard to put into words how I'm feeling right now but I will try.  Notwendy, you talk about resentment.  Are we resentful about babysitting?  Yes.  There is no attempt whatsoever to make anything there more comfortable for us.  There has never been any attempt at showing their appreciation for the long hours we are there.  We have never even received a "thanks" when we leave.  I once, early on, said this was "our time with GS2."  So with that statement, I guess they interpret it as doing us a favor and giving us time with our grandson.  I don't know; I should not even guess at what they think because most of it never makes any sense.  So, with that said, yes, there is resentment.

On the other hand, we love our grandson so very much.  Poor decisions have been made by my son's fiancee as to babysitting choices.  We tried to make a boundary once about wanting to be finished for the day by 4:00 p.m.  This is when my son's fiancee had a more flexible schedule.  After this boundary was made, one day a stranger to us comes to the door and says she is there so we can go home.  I found out later that the girl was a drug user and she was found laying on my son's and financee's bed staring up at the fan and my GS next to her crying loudly and consistently stark naked.  My son's fiancee knows this family and knew she was a drug user. 

So there is fear for many reasons.  I know we cannot protect GS2 all the time; but we are so afraid of where he will end up, will they take good care of him, will it be someone or someplace decent, etc... .  I could not cope with giving up the babysitting and later founding out something happened to GS2.  I am sitting here in tears right now writing this.  I know we cannot have it both ways.  We just feel at a loss on what to do.  Once we make the choice not to continue the babysitting, I do not believe it will be an option again.  I believe that my son's fiancee will see to that.

I know I sound like I am presenting a no-win situation here.  That's because that is what it feels like to us.  It is heartbreaking.  We do not even feel we can discuss it with our son only.  He has changed so much that we are feeling the same about him as her - unapproachable.  It's a mess!

Thank you Nonwendy for your responses.  I appreciate them.

Hi Angie,

I am sorry you are feeling so upset right now


I think this is about boundaries and communication. If you physically cannot handle the babysitting for 10 to 11 hours in the current environment, I would say there is a need for change, a need you would need to express. Boundaries are primarily about us, defending/enforcing our boundaries is something we need to do, that is not something that falls upon the other person. Before I mentioned various communication techniques to you such as S.E.T. (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0) and D.E.A.R.M.A.N. (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=160566.0). Have you had a chance to look into these techniques? Do you think they can be helpful in your communications with your son and his fiancée?


I would say it indeed probably is better not to engage in any mind-reading, nor any fortune-telling or catastrophizing if there is no objective evidence to support your thoughts and/or there are also alternative scenarios possible.


What did you do when that stranger came to the door? Did you go home and leave your grandson with her?


How did you find these things out? Who found that girl laying on the bed like that? How did your son and his fiancée handle this situation after finding out what that girl did?



Why do you think it is that your son is in this relationship and behaves the way he does?

Do you perhaps feel like he's letting himself be controlled by his fiancée and if so, why do you think he's allowing this? Have you seen him behave this way in other relationships as well?

How would you generally describe the way your son behaves in relationships with people, whether it be romantic or other types of relationships? How does your son generally conduct himself in relationships with people?

The Board Parrot

PS. Yeah I know I ask a lot of questions but that's part of the parrot process

Hello Kwamina and thank you for the reply.

I am familiar with D.E.A.R.M.A.N. as well as S.E.T.; however, I need to review them.  I have gone over them (especially S.E.T.) three or four times since I have been on the this board, but not as many for D.E.A.R.M.A.N.  I will be reading these over again.  It is well worth it, but a little scary to approach either of them as I believe the blowup we had a few weeks ago is still fresh on their part as well as ours. 

While it is true Kwamina that it is best not to mind-read or catastrophize, I do not feel confident at all that my son's uBPD fiancee is open to anything we suggest, other than what we are doing right now.  Limiting babysitting hours, having him come to our house, etc., do not work for them for various reasons we have been over before.  It has been very consistent with my son's fiancee's behavior in the past that if she does not get her way or you try to deviate from what she wants, not only will you not get whatever you want, but she will go for the place that hurts you the most.  This is really not a guess on my part; it is her history of behavior.  For her to open up her mind and heart to us at this point in time would be nothing short of a miracle.

As far as the person who showed up at the door, we were aware she had someone to relieve us at a certain time, but she did not bother to tell us who.  At the time, another couple was living downstairs at their home with a small child.  They came up to see who it was and the male was familiar with her and her brother.  How we found out about GS2 lying in bed naked and crying and her lying there just looking up at the fan was through this couple's observation when they came up to see what was wrong with GS2.  They related it to us.  I suppose this girl babysitting came to an end after that.  It was not discussed with us.  We are always out of the loop.  We didn't see her after that and the couple downstairs offered to watch GS2 for the short time involved until they got home from work.  Again, they did not discuss it with us.  We found out through the couple living downstairs.

I ask myself every day why my son behaves as he does.  When I read about the FOG, he certainly seems to be in it.  I find it very hard to believe that he is happy in this relationship, it just does not seem that one person getting everything they want and taking all the time and never giving back to the relationship is not a sustainable relationship.  I don't know what he is getting from the fiancee at all but heartache.  I do know he is crazy about GD4 (not biologically his) because he has been with her since GD4 has been 5 months old.  Perhaps he has thought about breaking up, (but I doubt it) and knows that would mean GD4 would go right out the door with her since he has no legal rights to her, and perhaps fears she would take GS2 as well.  I do not see my son telling her leave because it would mean he would also be making GD4 leave, and I don't think his heart is capable of that.

How is my son in other relationships?  That is hard to say because this is, believe it or not, the first girl he ever brought home to meet us.  So I believe he may have had other relationships in the past but maybe they didn't last very long?  Not sure.  This is the only serious one we know of.  Regarding how he is with other people and relationships, always well-liked, gets along great with his coworkers, had nice friends in high school and overall everyone seemed to like him.  He was on the quiet side in high school, but from what we have observed, everyone likes him and says he is easy to get along with.

Yes, she is 1000% in control of this relationship. 

Keep the questions coming Kwamina!  Like I said before, they help me think about things in muddling through this whole process.  I appreciate them! 

This just all seems like a no win situation for us.  Another thing about the girl who watched them that was a drug user.  My son's fiancee was good friends with her brother through high school years and she was familiar with his family as well, so that means she should not even considered letting GS2 be at their house, (which he was for the first attempt at babysitting), and knew he was on drugs as well as his sister.  So why were they even a consideration?   These are the scary things that make us feel like we are abandoning the little guy to who knows what.  Sad, sad situation I have no answers for.

 

 

Angie, when faced with a decision that causes me to feel resentment, it helps to compartmentalize it to what is my values and what are my needs that I am responsible for. It is best to not feel like a victim of your son and his decisions. Yes, I believe what you say about them and your feelings are understandable. Unfortunately that isn't helping the decision that is between you and your GS.

Make this just about him and you. If you choose to babysit - for his best interests- then that is making it your choice. You are not his victim. He is an innocent child. Then, if you wish to babysit- how can you make the situation more comfortable for you and your husband?

Ideas- if you wish to drive him in the car- is there a way to de-smoke it- detail it, have it professionally cleaned and deodorized? I think that can be done to where it is safe for him.

Can he attend a mother's morning out or pre-school program? You may need to pay for this but some are run by churches and are reasonable. It would give you and your husband a break. You would still have to take him but then you and your husband could get a cup of coffee together. On days he is sick, you'd be there if he couldn't go, but it would not be long days for you. In summer there are camps, vacation bible school. I don't know what role religion plays in your family but at his age, the kids are singing songs, coloring, it's not that intense regardless of denomination. A safe, clean, happy and loving program is the main consideration.

You hire someone once in a while- can an older neighbor teen or preteen come over and play with him for an hour ? Then you and husband can sit down and have a break. You still stay there while they play but you can be sitting, not running around. The teen can earn some pocket money.

You may have to purchase a comfortable chair for your husband.

I know these are expenses you may not feel it is fair to pay- but they are to benefit you and your husband and for your own comfort while you give the gift of love and stability to your GS. It is not about your son or fiancee but for you and your husband.


My dilemma was wanting to visit my father but if I stayed there, sometimes my mother would be screaming all night long. My personal dilemma was that I had to drive to get there and I didn't want to be on the road home with no sleep. I also needed some space to myself to get some quiet from the drama, and my mother could bang on my bedroom door anytime she wanted. It would have been nice if my mother was considerate of my needs but she is not. If I wanted to get a good night's sleep, I had to take care of that. I stayed in a hotel. Yes, it was an additional expense, and didn't make sense as they had room for me ,but I had no guarantee of sleeping if I stayed there, so I made sure I did. This was an investment in my own well being. Yes, they had something to do with why I didn't stay with them, but making this about me was a step in self care.

If you want to babysit your GS, but it is physically challenging- what can you do to make that less of a physical strain on you? All this is in your ability. Leave your son and fiancee out of that consideration and you are in control of your own physical needs.

When my mother doesn't get her way, she goes for whatever is most hurtful. In my case, it was my father. I understand your dilemma. I had to think of ways to see him while minimizing the impact she had on me. It wasn't easy. I also didn't see him as much as I would have wanted to, but I saw him to the extent I could tolerate her.

It's a tough situation, but it is what it is. Someone you care about is controlled by her 100%. So was my father. She owned him. While he wasn't a child like your GS- at the end of his life he was about as powerless as a child to stand up to her, and dependent on her. She controlled my relationship with him too.

It wasn't what I wanted for me ,or for him--- but he chose it. And your son chose this. All I could do is the best I could with the situation. Your son and his fiancee are the legal guardians of your GS and until he is 18, they do control things. They don't have to let you in on their plans for him.

By taking your focus off them and what they do, I hope you can come to a way to babysit and be more comfortable when you do, if that continues to be your choice. You also don't have to babysit. I know that is a tough decision but you can choose your own sanity and physical health if you need to.

Yes, Notwendy it really is a tough situation.  It is breaking my heart because my son and our relationship with him (even his older brother) and he do not talk like we used to.  He has really bought into his fiancee's way of thinking and it is quite scary to be honest.  I have had conversations with him where he will tell me something she said and I will point out to him how this could not possibly be.  He would then come to the realization that she did not tell him something truthfully and would just say, oh yeah, I see what you're saying.  It's like she has hijacked his brain or something! 

We have been talking about physical limitations with the GS2 but it, for me, has gone beyond that to mental as well as physical symptoms.  I am not sleeping well in spite of nighttime prescription sleep medicine I was given by my doctor.  I have no appetite.  I think about this whole situation all the time, forcing myself to get on a different subject in my head only to find it is once again engulfing my brain. 

Something has to give here sooner or later and I don't know what that is, but feeling like this is certainly not the answer or one of us (my husband or I) is going to end up sick and will be of no use to our GS. 

Just feeling a lot of anxiety and sadness right now. 

Thank you so much for your time and your suggestions.  Although they were very good ones, our finances are limited and that would also make them mad to bring a chair into their home, or to find out we have him in a church type camp or anything else you mentioned.  I may have misunderstood.  You might have meant let them in on our thoughts and tell them our ideas to run it past them first.  As of right now, financially none of those would work for us and talking to them is out of the question.  Things have been going downhill in the way of communication for some time now and I think we have rockier roads ahead. 

I understand and it is tough.  It seemed like my mother hijacked my fathers thoughts too. It wasn't like that earlier. He seemed more himself when I was a teen but was still enmeshed and seemed to excuse her behavior. I can see how he fell in love with her and why he stayed when we were little but he remained with her long past when we grew up and left home. I don't know why and I don't think it's possible to know why.

If this situation and the stress of babysitting is taking a toll on you and your husband you have every right to make yourselves a priority and not do it. I also took some distance from my parents. It was very hard. I had to look out for my well being whether they liked it or not.

I know you love your GS but ultimately he is their responsibility. Your health is important.

Hi Angie59:
Someone who is quiet and easy to get along with is often a "People Pleaser".  Add in a parent with a temper (and anger management issues), and a "people pleaser" is easily nurtured. Quiet people are generally passive and don't want conflict.

I've often read on the relationship boards about the person with BPD or strong BPD traits who is very attractive.  Early on, there can be intense sexual chemistry.  Some people let the good looks and chemistry be the reason for staying in the relationship (at least until they can't take it any longer).  The chemistry can be like a drug.

Perhaps the person with BPD would rate a "9" or "10" in the looks department (out of a scale from 1-10), and perhaps the non in the relationship is several points lower on the attractiveness scale.  The non may have never dreamed of snagging someone who was so good looking on the outside.  Early on, they will hang on as long as they can, and close their eyes to the ugly personality traits, poor values and bad behaviors.  The looks and the chemistry keep them hooked, and they want to keep that at all costs.  Just sharing a possible perspective on what your son might see in his fiance.  

Just wondering if you ever read the information offered on "People Pleasers" within your thread at the link below:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=324580.20

You left that thread and started a new one.  Perhaps it could be of some value to revisit some things discussed on the 3rd page of that thread. (opportunities?)

I've read many of your posts about babysitting and feeling unappreciated and taken advantage of.  Could you be stuck with ruminating over these things?

You have power over and can choose the following:

1.  Accept that you are giving your grandson a gift, by babysitting for him.  He is too young to realize it, but you are doing something good for his welfare.  You could choose for this to be enough justification for babysitting (without feeling taken advantage of).  You can exercise whatever boundaries are possible, or you can choose to quit.  If you can't get beyond the feeling of being taken advantage of, you may need to just quit and accept that you won't likely be baby sitting again.

2.  You can talk to your son and express your desire for periodic "Thank You's" from him.  Have you had this conversation with your son? Were "Thank You's" a common practice within your household, while your son was growing up?  

3.  Take measures within your control to make babysitting more comfortable.  i.e. you won't get them to buy the chair you want, but you can provide portable additions to make a chair more comfortable/suitable for your husband. (therapeutic pads for back support, lift pad, etc.)  What have you tried?

Has your husband thought about quitting smoking?  Very few people survive years of smoking, without cancer and/or lung ailments.  Earlier, you mentioned the smoke residue in your home as a problem.  It sounds logical that the car is an issue as well.  So if you husband wasn't a smoker, am I correct in understanding that there would have been more opportunities to babysit at your house and to use your car to transport your grandson?

Although detailing a car would improve the situation with smoke residue in the car, unless your husband quits smoking in the car, it will quickly revert to the way it was before cleaning.

Smoking, or the residue from smoking is a problem for someone who has allergies, asthma or is just sensitive to smoke. I actually understand why someone would stay firm with boundaries in regard to even 3rd hand smoke exposure.  If you don't have allergies and are used to being around smoke, it might be hard to understand how others have problems with being around it.

Until you radically accept the things you can't change, you will be in constant turmoil.  You do have some choices, and perhaps some things you can do to make some small improvements.  "All or Nothing" isn't realistic.  

You previously mentioned getting involved in some activities just for you.  Have you thought about some possibilities?  Maybe start a hobby, join a club, take a yoga class, learn meditation, etc.?  It's never healthy to hyper focus on one aspect of life.  Mental vacations with activities you like can help tame anxiety.

No-One makes some very good points. I have struggled with people-pleasing as well. Growing up in my FOO it was considered a desirable thing to do ( basically please one person- my mother) but I also did it because pleasing my mother also pleased my father. It got their approval, but it also required that I ignore my own needs and who I was because there wasn't room in my FOO for anyone else's needs, just my mother's. This behavior was adaptive/survival in my childhood and but after that, created dysfunction for my relationships with others.

Pointing this out isn't meant to be a criticism of you as a parent. It is clear that you are a loving mother to your son. Dysfunction in families and family members tends to be integenerational and also on a spectrum from mild to more severe. My BPD mother has the severe behavior and compared to her, others looked normal, but that didn't mean we didn't have things about ourselves to work on.

I've observed that some people can be both people pleasers and have anger management issues. I think that resentment is at the bottom of this. People saying "yes" when they truly mean "no" and building up resentment. The resentment is expressed in different ways- anger outbursts, or passive aggressive behavior, or sadness.

People pleasers tend to focus on other people rather than their own issues or feelings, or wants and needs. I think some of this is necessary as a parent- we have to get up at night to feed a baby, even if we are tired, or we change our plans to suit a child care situation. But even mothers need to have some self care. They say on an airplane - put your oxygen mask on first.

Self care, turning the focus on ourselves, is an antidote to people pleasing and a way to diminish resentment. You've got several issues going on here- your inconsiderate son and his fiancee, your grandson, and your husband who is not physically comfortable babysitting and also smokes in his car, which makes the babysitting harder on you. As No-One said- there are inexpensive steps to solving these problems, but he has to also cooperate- he can choose to clean the car and stop smoking in it, bring some pillows or other adaptive pads for the chair. What are his feelings about babysitting? Can he freely express them to you or does he fear your anger if he says he doesn't want to? Is he a people pleaser? I don't advocate mind reading but does he speak his feelings or act in passive aggressive ways to get you to stop babysitting?

As for your son's characteristics, he will need to deal with his own people pleasing behavior if he does that. You gave him the best you had with what you knew at the time. The great thing about realizing patterns and our own behavior is it gives us the opportunity to work on making changes in ourselves. We can't change other people but sometimes when one person in a family becomes more direct, authentic and less of a people pleaser, they have less resentment, and can model a better way to interact. Others become less fearful of expressing themselves if the anger is better controlled. This can take time, and work, but is a step towards positive changes in a family.

For the babysitting solution, I think it would help to focus on what you need, what you truly wish to do. If this is not sustainable as it is, what is in your power to change to make it possible for you? How does your husband feel about this- he may not want to do it and so will also feel resentment? I can understand why going alone would be a problem- one car and it is tiring. Once you know your limits, your boundaries- you can present it to your son and fiancee. Yes, they may make it all or none, or realize that even one day a week of free babysitting is still free ( if you cut back to one day) or just have to make other arrangements if you don't babysit. For now, you are accommodating everyone but you. What is it that you really want ( that is possible- they are not going to change).