BPDFamily.com

This thread is a continuation of another discussion, which can be found here: Just when you thought you had it down.  I've never seen anything like this. (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325320.msg12970724#msg12970724)

He returned home from the company retreat last night.

As discussed upthread, last week he was at his job's corporate office, staying at his boss's house, for some employee training that was taking place. That gave us some space apart, and I kept contact to a bare minimum. At one point he texted me something negative about the relationship being doomed, and I ignored that aspect of it, and rather than argue or defend, I said I felt he was right - because we can't keep doing what we have been doing. I said that I felt we needed to hit the reset button, and literally start from scratch. Take some time and space, then ease into relating to one another as if we just met. Go out on a first date again when ready. Do something new and not just "pick up where we left off". I sort of alluded to the fact that we now have a "hindsight manual" of what not to do. Something most people don't have - that will help to improve the chances of a better future.

He did not respond - which with him is a good sign. Otherwise he might have written back something negative, refusing to hear me, or belittling the idea. A couple of days after that, he contacted me because he had forgotten some passwords he needed for his job, and I helped him with that. No mention of anything negative. He got home last night, and I had bought all the stuff to grill outdoors, and he looked absolutely exhausted. He said he just wanted to go straight to bed and not eat. I said ok, so I grilled for myself. I realized we were out of briquettes, and I asked him if he could please go pick some up, as I had food on the stove. He was a little fussy about it, but did go, and even put one of the bags out by the grill for me. Small helping gestures like that from him are a good sign. No mention of breaking up, kicking me out, or doomsday talk.

Before he went to bed, he clearly and politely said "BD, I need a little space this weekend. I'll be around, but I want to be alone, ok?"

I said, "sure, of course". He said "thank you" and went to bed. Wanting space vs. wanting to destroy everything in one fell swoop is actually an upgrade. I think right now respecting his space and not engaging is probably the most reassuring thing I can do. He has told me that when his mother was abusive he went into his room alone and stayed there until he felt safer. That he always had to self comfort, and he never went to his sister or his father, since his sister was also damaged and his father was "totally checked out". I have come to realize that when he wants to be alone locked in a room, if I try to invade, he is reminded of his domineering mother "forcing him back into her motherly embrace" when he was still stinging from being hit by her, and told how bad he was the day before.

I wish I had grasped all this sooner - and understood it and what tools to use, but I messed up so many times - trying to re-engage when he was really needing to be left alone. I get it now. I wish it hadn't taken so long. I ordered "Stop Walking on Eggshells", "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" and "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder: How to Keep Out-of-Control Emotions from Destroying Your Relationship". Not really what I had in mind for fun summer reading, haha, but I think it's necessary.

I also can imagine that being at a work retreat having to do "team building activities" and stay with his boss when he is in this state had to be horrible and overwhelming for him. Some of it may have been a pleasant distraction, but I imagine it was all a bit much - for five straight days. He was truly exhausted yesterday, and I think he has been asleep for 12 hours now. I am of course fighting the urge to go check on him. But no. That won't help. :-) I really miss him, and want my partner to emerge from the doom, but he has to be ready. I'm gonna need to exercise a lot of patience.  :)

Hi Basement Dweller,

That's some reading list.    :)     I wonder if you have browsed the book review section here.    Not going to add to your list because I don't think you could read anymore.    I will mention two books though.


Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=203887.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=203887.0)
which really focuses on us.   and our behaviors and thinking.

and Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273679.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273679.0)

I've read a lot and those are my number 1 and number 2 best picks.  they fit me and my situation the best.

'ducks

Oh, thank you, 'ducks! Those look really good. I definitely identify with C-PTSD, and really have begun to exhibit many of the symptoms thereof. I'll get through the books that I already have coming in the mail, and then look into those as well. Thank you for the tip!

 Hi BD

It's sounding good so far! I'm glad he's home and not raging or continuing the drama. It sounds like he needs some space and time to process everything. It's good that he was able to ask for that in a clear and polite way.

I hope your stress has come down a bit now. I know it will still be difficult without the two of you interacting normally. Hopefully the weather will stay nice and you can enjoy your garden and have some peace.

Those books are all useful, although sometimes heavy going. Best read in small chunks, between gardening and self care, or washed down with a wine in the evening.

PS. Did you mean to include the name of the country in your previous post? You might want to edit that out  x

D’oh! Edited. :-)

I imagine the books will be very heavy. These days my whole life seems to be consumed with reading about BPD. Or watching YouTube videos. I’m realizing that I have literally done everything wrong. I had no idea what I was dealing with, and I just handled everything so wrong.

Unfortunately I cannot enjoy wine anymore. He monitors and judges and accuses me of alcoholism if I have one drink. Even tries to get in my face to smell my breath when I come home to see if I have been drinking after work. So I just don’t now. At least not if he’s home. It’s not even worth the drama and finger pointing.

Just wondering how things are going now, BD? Are you okay?

This thread is getting long and will probably be locked soon. Do you want to start a new one?

Calling you an alcoholic and stopping you from having a glass of wine is pure projection - while he's holed up in the basement, trying to hide the empties in a duffle bag!
x

Hi, sunandmoon!

How are things with you? Yeah, I will await the ol' lockdown and start a new thread.  :)

I'm surviving. Today (or I guess yesterday, as it's now the middle of the night here - thanks BPD related insomnia!) was pretty rough. I worked all day, but he had therapy in the morning, and I think right now, especially since it's all new to him, it stirs up a lot - in a not so good way. He knows he's in therapy for BPD, and he's not too keen on that. I tried to pleasantly pass by him and say hello and go about my business when I got home... .but no. He followed me into the kitchen and started in on me, accusing me (you guessed it!) of being drunk again.   I had just returned directly from work, and noting the time, it was obvious I didn't even stop anywhere - just went straight home. He tried to sniff me (I kid you not) claiming I "reeked of alcohol". I had not had even a single sip of beer or anything else.

There are times when I just can't validate, soothe, SET, any of it. I just... .can't. I said "Knock it off and please get away from me. Stop with the absurd accusations. Go back into your basement." I had a long, stressful day at work, and I had zero patience left for this nonsense. Sometimes you just... .don't.

He stormed off on foot, came back, got the car, stormed off in the car, told me he did not want to speak to me, then called on his phone to say he wanted to speak to me. (?) He came back. We sat on the front porch, and he started in with his millionth cycle of "I hate you, don't leave me, why aren't you leaving me, are you going to leave me... .etc, and rapid cycle accusations about all manner of things. I am suicidal, I am in cahoots with the police against him, I plan to drag him into court, the usual. Sigh.

I sat quietly, listened, and finally said, "I am not going to abandon you, but I will admit, this is tedious. You live in the basement, you have dropped out of life with me, I'm struggling to keep the house running and you are just - not present. Your kids are not here, despite you having 50% time, and you know I have always welcomed them here, and done whatever I can to keep things afloat when they are with us. I am doing this ALONE. How long are you going to hide in the basement, having me live alone up here and pretending to the world that nothing is wrong in this house, meanwhile keeping it all running?" To which he replied, "As long as it takes. I don't know. As long as it takes."

He knows he's cracking up, I know he's cracking up... .and I have literally NOWHERE I can turn. We have no friends in common - I think he has one "close" friend, and he too is avoiding this whole situation like the plague. I'm pretty sure he has done the distortion campaign to his FOO, but the sister is PD as well (histrionic, VERY histrionic), and their relationship is, and always has been, a mess. Any attempts to help him are immediately turned into her own hysterical drama. I made the horrible mistake of once allowing her to come over to "help" when he had a much more minor meltdown last summer. She ran screaming into the house, wailing in a shrill voice at him "YOU'RE A SH!THEAD! WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? YOU'RE A HORRIBLE MAN!" Then went on a tirade about her boyfriend and their sex life, in gruesome, lurid detail.  He was quickly forgotten - it was all about her within seconds.

Not helpful.

His ex-wife's true colors are showing now that the sh!t has hit the fan, and she's far too busy using this as a power trip to keep the kids from him, and she has zero interest in acknowledging how bad he has gotten, other than to play the blame game, and also make it a bit about her. She told me when this all started that I shouldn't be doing anything to support him. (Don't even get me started there.) This being the same woman that cheated on him and left him for another man when their kids were toddlers a decade ago. He found this out by walking in on them in their own home. (The home that he renovated with his own two hands for them.) She gave him the boot and moved her boy toy in before the bed was even cold. Not really anyone I'd trust to care what's best for him. His mother has BPD and Alzheimers, and she often sees us in public and doesn't recognize us. I obviously can't sit his kids down and tell them he's mentally ill. (I am starting to believe he is at least partially responsible for keeping them from being here, because he doesn't want them to see that he's losing it.) His father is dead... .there is literally nobody I can talk to that could, or would be of any help.

It's frustrating. And exhausting. Right now it seems hopeless. The one and only tenuous fragile grip he still has on reality is when I give him small chores to do. Then he has a sense of purpose. We haven't had any rain in over a month and it has been hot and dry every day. Our lawn is turning into a crunchy fire hazard. Since I maintain the yard, I need a new lawn sprinkler, so I will send him to the garden shop to get one today while I am at work. I find these little things sometimes being him back to planet earth for a little while. I just have to get creative now. Maybe keeping him busy will distract him from wallowing in paranoia and misery? I... .just don't know. The saddest thing is... .I miss him. I don't even really recognize this person.

(Despite all this, the memory of his sister barging in the house, gesticulating wildly, and screaming in a shrill theatrical voice, will always make me laugh through the pain a little.)   It's disturbing, but oddly funny in a really bizarre way.

Hello BD,

I certainly relate to your interactions with your spouse. Oh man.


I would always say it was like an alien took over my wife's body. I didn't know who she was anymore.  Even now that we are separated, months later... .she is a stranger.  But your husband is going to therapy, that's the difference! He is going. I hope he continues to go and learn how to adapt his way back to reality. This fight or flight response our loved ones have... .I hope he fights for you and himself.  You have been so patient and I commend you on that. Bless you. Good luck.

Dear BD

Well, I see the arbitrary 6 page rule kicked in and you have a new post. Hope you can find it!   :)

This has got to be tough, especially as it's going on for so long. I really feel for you  


Please stop blaming yourself. I saw you do this with your INTJ post too. It's not you, BD - it's a mental illness you're dealing with! In many of your other posts (before all this happened), I have been impressed by your stability and sensible approach to handling things. You have a lot of innate wisdom and you have done a good job so far!

What is happening now is a new level of dysfunction. I'm still worried about the paranoia evidenced in telling you "you're suicidal, you're in cahoots with the police, etc". I'll mention again that I do think his therapist needs to know about this development and his recent psychotic behaviour.

It may be that he needs antipsychotics and/or mood stabilizers. I know you've said he doesn't want to take anything, but if it comes from his therapist and, if he tries them and they help, he may come around. Also, he may only need them for a while; not forever.


I hear you! While most of the time we need to be steady and use the tools, I also believe that a well-timed spit back is sometimes necessary. They need to see and hear there is a limit. Plus I believe, if you act like a doormat, people will indeed wipe their feet on you.

I hear that it's hard to be so isolated and have no-one to really talk to about this. As I mentioned before, I also live in a foreign country (my husband's home) and it does feel very lonely when things are going wrong. I also don't want to talk to others about this, firstly because they wouldn't get it and there would be well meaning advice to leave; secondly, because it's a small community and I wouldn't want to damage his image.

However, I do make sure to take care of myself. Go out with friends, spend time pottering in the garden, buy something nice for myself, get my nails done, eat well, relax, read, take a long bath... .whatever keeps me distanced from the drama and in touch with reality.

Finding small ways to bring him back to normalcy is good. Cooking something nice for yourself and taking a plate down to the basement for him is another way to help stabilise and remind him you're a good person and you're still there, being normal  :)

BD please don't blame yourself. You have already shown an Olympic-level of empathy, and your connecting his childhood fears to his present state was a brilliant leap of understanding that likely no one else in this universe will give him. It is an amazing gift he may never understand. I see all of us here using SET and empathy and love, and it occurs to me there must also be a universe of nons out there who do not approach their BPD partners with such kindness. They may only scream back, or hit.

I'm so sad to hear things have moved in this direction. But my feeling is that you did absolutely nothing wrong and that this is his own gravity finally taking over and trying to pull you down with it. I sense now the intentionality with which my wife initiates the chaos in our lives, and it makes me sad. For example, I thought her attempts to explode my relationships with my FOO were the result of one argument, but I now believe she was just waiting for the right excuse to destroy everything because she feared an eventual rejection from them, or me.

My guess his work issues and / or your relationship were just the kindling he's looking for to start a fire he needed no matter what. What do you think?

~ROE      

Hi everybody! Thank you all so much for your kind replies and support.

ROE, yes I do think he feels inclined to sabotage things, and I think that's a panic response when he feels too much shame. I also know that while perhaps I do tend to blame myself, I have not always reacted well to his behaviors. There have been times when I have really poured salt on the wound - I have stooped to horrible levels when he has pushed my buttons. There have been times when I really have NOT helped the situation. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with.

I don't have all the ninja skills down yet. ;-)

Things have been a bit rough here, but they are leveling off. My partner really broke down last week, and was shaking and sobbing and completely coming unglued. He had hidden all the kitchen knives, fearing that I would become violent, he says. He has not been sleeping or eating well. He went from drinking heavily to not at all, and I think he may have been having some withdrawal symptoms. (That has passed, thankfully.)  He's been badly dysregulated for a month and a half now, and I came to the conclusion that we cannot live like this any longer.

I have decided to move out - at least for a while.

I do not want to leave him, or break up with him, but I feel we need some time apart. We are both losing our sanity. His sons have not been home for the entire 5-6 weeks because he doesn't want them to see him like this. I talked to him about it, and told him I feel he needs to work on the relationship with his kids, and we need to take physical time apart, and re-address our relationship status when things are calm, and he's had a couple of weeks with his sons. They need their father to be present, and as healthy as possible. He began sobbing, but also almost immediately re-regulated. Mostly. He told me how much he had missed my touch and he wanted to hold me. He broke down sobbing in my arms. I reassured him that I wanted to save the relationship, and I felt this was the best way. He actually was able to see this once he thought about it, and I told him that I was planning to stay faithful and not disappear, but that we really do need to hit the reset button and start fresh.

Eventually, he began to feel ok about this, and even some relief. He has returned to sleeping next to me, but we aren't intimate right now. He says he's not really feeling any sexual desire - which is rare for him with me, but when we are at odds with each other, that's what happens. He totally shuts down. I don't plan on being intimate with anyone else, and I will wait until he feels ready again - he knows this. I still consider him my partner, even if I am going to stay elsewhere for a while. The hypersexuality you see in some BPD's where they jump from partner to partner isn't part of his condition. If he loses a relationship, he will completely isolate himself for six months or so, or even a year and not want to see anyone, or even date. He takes it very, very hard, and really mourns the loss. I have assured him that we can rebuild in time when he feels ready, and I'm still present. He took that well.

Last night I went and stayed at a beautiful hotel by the water, and asked him to please take this time to call his sons and have them come spend the night. He did. He says they had fun. He was quite alright today, and came and picked me up at the hotel. He told me that he felt that I had been "too hard on him" and he was having trouble with trusting me. I acknowledged that he had every right to feel that way. (In retrospect - I was hard on him. I did not understand his mindset, and I lost patience with him a lot of times.) I told him that I was going to take this time apart to think about what I can do better. (I need to be less invalidating and more able to give him a LOT of space.) I told him that, and he seemed grateful that I understood, but of course expressed skepticism that I would do that. I told him I understood, and to just let some time pass, and let's see how it goes. He is on board with that idea, and seems to accept it as a good one.

There is a family in the same town that we live in who has a large private villa and a separate apartment for rent on the property. There is a huge housing shortage in the cities here, and it's extremely competitive to get a rental. The advertisement for this apartment got over 280 requests in 3 days. Everyone had to "apply" to rent it, and write a personal letter. The family picked me. I could not be more thankful for that stroke of luck! I move in next weekend, and my partner will help me. He knows I will be close - by - about a 25 minute walk or short bus/bike ride. We also agreed that the possibility to rebuild from scratch exists in the future, as well as for me to return home. But for now this is our plan - so we can heal and stop driving each other insane.

I really do not want to move out, and I just wish things could go back to "normal". But his condition doesn't allow him to just "snap out of it" like I can. I can just choose to not dwell on the negative and make every day a new day with a positive start. I have learned that he cannot, and part of our problem is that I expected him to, and I would become frustrated with him when he couldn't just "stop being this way".  I take full responsibility for that - it really made everything worse. I am working on that. Being more understanding and more validating. And realizing that he is a unique individual with complex emotional needs. I was beginning to just see him as his "disorder" and that's neither fair nor helpful.

Man, I miss him. But moving into my own space might be the only thing that saves us. So for that, I'm willing to do it. It's a hardship for me, but I think it's for the best right now.

BD,

Wow, I have to say that I am deeply impressed with the grace with which you are handling this difficult situation.  You are showing so much empathy for your husband, but also looking out for yourself better than many of us, me included.  I was also impressed with your insights into his past and how you wanted your behavior to feel different to him than his mother's.

With this next question, I'm not challenging at all, I think you're in a position to teach here.  What makes it the right thing at this time for you to get some space and live apart?  Again, my assumption is that you know the best call for you, and I'd like to learn from your experience.

WW

Hi, WW! Thank you for those kind and encouraging words. I really appreciate it! I am about to leave for an all day work conference, and won’t have much screen time today, but I’ll answer this evening. 

Sounds like a plan!  Looking forward to reading.

WW

Hi BD

Wow - that is a dramatic change! I truly hope this works and I think you are incredibly strong 

I have a lot of questions and echo WW's question too, but I will wait until you're home from your conference and have time to write.

Howdy, friends -

MY GOD that was the most boring 9 hour conference EVER.  :)

Warning: This will be long as hell. Like all my posts. 

Wentworth, you ask a good question. I will try to answer it to the best of my ability, but I'm not sure how much sense it will make. I sometimes don't even know if I am doing the right thing - because it hurts like hell, but I feel like it's what I have to do right now.

I am not breaking up with him, nor do I want to be with anybody else, but we both need a sanity break. Yesterday when I came home from work, I had my new keys and rental contract. He took it ok and was supportive about the move, and we actually sat in the sun and talked and had a nice time. He didn't act up too much - a little bit of trying to bait me into a verbal spat, but I had none of it. He stopped when he got no reaction, and it was a nice night, overall. Today he is in "lay on the couch and play video games in the dark" mode. Doesn't want to talk much, wasn't real productive today... .but he's not raging or irrational either. Just seems a little depressed. But totally sane otherwise. So, I shall give him space and come write to the BPD crew. 

What made me decide to move out now, after fighting tenaciously to not have it come to that (because it's totally disruptive to my life, and a significant hardship for me, and it feels horrible to leave the home that we have cultivated together for these last couple of years and made so much improvement on, AND the person I love) is that he does own the house, and he did for a decade before I got here. Initially, I told him to do the legwork on relocating me if he wanted me to go, and I really do think it was just empty threats. He did nothing. However, he did deteriorate emotionally and physically for 6 weeks straight essentially lashing out at me, avoiding me, trying to engage me, or becoming psychotic and paranoid on a rotating basis. I never knew what triggered it to start with, but I really just wasn't able to take it anymore. I'm a (usually) calm and reasonable person. I like a tranquil, peaceful existence. I do not like conflict - and I never feared being alone, (I have actually always enjoyed it!) but if I do come home to someone - I want them to be nice to me. To be happy to see me. I want to feel like I am wanted, and I belong.

These last six weeks, I felt none of that. I felt afraid of coming home. I felt unwelcome by this angry man hiding in the basement, blaming me for all his problems. I KNOW I did not cause this. I know he has mental illness. But I also know he believes I am responsible - that I am the cause of his pain. At least right now.

The final straws are these:

1.) Because he has been so dysregulated and in such a horrible state lately, his work performance is suffering, he is suffering, and his sons are suffering. (My work performance is suffering too, and I have basically shut out all my friends while just trying to do damage control. Not ok!)

The kids have not seen their dad hardly at all since this all went downhill, and it's because he doesn't want them to see him like this. I know he feels it's my presence that is making him such a wreck, and he is ashamed to let his sons see that we now have this bad dynamic. I also fear they may blame me to some degree for this - at least for not doing more to help, or for being the trigger. I love those boys and neither want them to lose their trust in me, or think ill of their father. If getting out of the way for a while so he can be with them is what I have to do, then I will do it. I love my partner, but I do not "need" him. His kids do, however.
 
2.) I want to feel safe coming home. Lately I haven't.

3.) He needs his space. He has said so, and even if it hurts me, and I know it's because he's in some sort of state where he feels he can't be close to me, and yes, even if it's the BPD talking - it still feels real to him. If this can save our relationship, then I will do it. And he can also see that I care enough to give him the space he needs. I think he has a better chance of returning to me if I actually go elsewhere for a while vs. trying to stay here and "fix things". Plus, I really cannot bear the thought of his kids not seeing him. Especially the youngest boy who is only 14 now, and still a bit attached to his dad in a childish way. My partner is also beginning to show signs of panic that his sons are getting too old to really need him anymore. He has been showing profound signs of separation anxiety about it over the past years or so. Another type of fear of abandonment, I think.

4.) The day before I decided to move he called me sobbing at work. He said I was "destroying him" and he missed his kids. That he was a "f*ck-up" and why the hell would I want to be here? Regardless of the fact that this is BPD dysregulation at its worst... .it ripped my heart out. I felt sickening pain to hear him in that state. I never intended to be the cause of any hurt to him, but if he feels I am, then those are his facts. I only wanted him to feel better. So I said "If you need me to go away for a while so you can be with your kids, and we don't have to fight, then I will. I just don't want you to hurt anymore."

And I meant it.

5.) My own self-care. My whole entire adult life, I have been married or in a serious relationship. I have never really lived alone... .except the first year and a half after moving solo to Europe in Jan, 2015 and I LOVED IT! I had my own flat in the city, I rode my bike everywhere, I was skinny and energetic, and I felt independent and strong and worldly. I was living the dream I wish I had lived straight out of college, but never did, because I got married and settled in a suburb in the U.S. in my 20's. I had always wanted to be a sassy and cosmopolitan woman living alone in a European city... .and I had it for while, way too late in life perhaps, but I gave it up to be with him. Because he really wanted me to be with him.

When I met him, I wanted to take it slow and keep my flat another year or so. He kinda talked me out of it, and into moving in with him. Next thing you know, I was living in the suburbs again in a villa with a man and two teenage stepsons. Cooking and cleaning for four, and all the noise and chaos that goes with it. And I was happy! I really loved it, actually... .until my partner began to really dysregulate badly. In the past it was sporadic and short lived. But this last month and a half has been a living hell. I felt unappreciated for all the love and kindness and generosity I have given to this man, his house, his property, and his family. I have been a good partner, responsible, faithful, and financially sharing the burden. Without complaint. And for the last month and a half I have felt used and disrespected, to be honest.

All things considered, I remembered how I used to love to decorate my own place sometimes in a very feminine way - and live on my own terms! I always enjoyed the freedom of being able to have a pink fuzzy shag throw rug, or hang up Christmas lights in the middle of June, or put fresh flowers on the table whenever I felt like it. Living with a "man's man/building contractor" type guy and two teenage boys... .that was not so appreciated and they sometimes even teased me. Sometimes they'd compromise, and I did get some free reign, but it really is a bachelor pad here.

His latest episode, while at first really upsetting to me... .finally gave way to me saying... ."Hey... .wait a minute. Get your damn pink rug and Christmas lights and girly crap out of the attic and drag it to your new flat and OWN THAT SPACE AGAIN!" So yeah. Why not? If it saves our relationship, then all the better!

All is not lost. My plan is to move what I need to stay away for a trial separation, and leave much of what I own here, and also leave the house pretty much as is - with some of my plants, paintings, etc. What I communicated to him was that I thought it was best not to abruptly just dismantle our whole life together and tear everything down... .but to consider it more like I'm just staying somewhere else to give him time with his kids alone, and us both space to breathe and not bicker. He agreed with this with no problem. (Admittedly, he does like most of my design style if it's not TOO effeminate.) ;-) Even in his strangest times he does not destroy my property or threaten to. He's not vindictive when he's in "a state" - he's petulant and has a persecution complex. But he's never taken anything from me or tried to destroy my things. Also, me and his youngest son who really has an eye for design as well were the ones that picked most of the current decor together. So he wouldn't do anything to destroy that.

It IS a tough choice. I don't want a total break-up/ complete extraction process. Just a physical separation, and maybe to start "dating" each other again and just start slowly trying to find our way back to camaraderie.

But sipping wine in my bachelorette pad without being poked fun at for having pink rugs and scented candles, or being called an alcoholic for having a drink... .does sound kinda nice. I look forward to meeting him for a first date after I move out. We agreed to that, and I think it will do us a lot of good.

So yeah. I am doing this to save him and myself, and hopefully US in the long run. I feel a bit sick inside, (ok, a lot!) but I keep telling myself it's for the best. I hope I start to believe it someday.

Wow BD

I feel like I should stand up and applaud at reading the end of that! You rock!

Everything you say makes perfect sense and this is one of the best examples of self care I've read here. You smart brave lady!


I know exactly how that feels! That was me 14 years ago, living on my own on a small island in SE Asia with my car and my little house and my music and my wine! And then a pwBPD came along, love bombed me and turned my life upside down.

But in fairness to him, he's made huge steps forward and today I choose to stay. Still, I know I could embrace my freedom again if it ever comes to that.

I'm sure there's a sick feeling in your tummy, BD, but you're doing this for all the right reasons and your gut knows what to do... .listen to your gut. Snuggle on your pink rug, enjoying your fairy lights and raise a glass of well deserved wine to yourself 

Joining sunandmoon in standing up and applauding.

Don’t applaud too hard, now... .I typed that with a lot of false bravado. I’m totally destroyed, and want nothing more than to wake up from this nightmare and be safe and sound in my happy home with the person I love. But it all somehow disappeared. I hate this so much. I just feel like I have no other choice.

BD, that was fantastic.  Really well done.  You've contributed a lot to the board by articulating things so clearly, thank you.  Regardless of whether you feel a wreck about it, you've done a good piece of writing, and your thinking seems sound.  You may benefit from going back and reading that every week or so and seeing how it may influence and support you, or your experiences may lead you to modify it.

On another thread this evening, I was talking to a young woman in the beginning stages of a BPD relationship about the risk of losing self -- how some of our members entered their relationships as strong, independent triathaletes and globetrotters, and over time lost much of their sense of self.  Sometimes survival, and perhaps having the strength to carry on in the relationship, means we need to dig out the Christmas lights and let our pink fuzzy flags rugs fly.

Expect a wild mix of ever changing feelings when you move into your new place.  It is normal.  When my separation began I felt euphoria at being safe, depression, loneliness, and found bits of the old me starting to surface.  One of the most important things was that I had peace, quiet, and safety in which to think and reflect on the relationship and on my own growth.  I had energy for healing and growth, where previously survival was consuming all available energy.

One risk we run as Betterers is that we can sometimes work too hard to make the world work for our pwBPD.  I have heard of research that shows that many pwBPD improve with age, and I've heard the argument that this may happen because BPD behaviors are not successful in life and they eventually learn in the school of hard knocks.  Some of us die hard Betterers may sometimes protect our pwBPD from the natural consequences of their actions, and steal from them valuable learning opportunities.  The consequence of his behavior is that you are distancing yourself, but you are doing it in a thoughtful, non-punitive way, with the primary aim of protecting yourself.  You are a boundaries rock star!    

Have you made a list of all the self care items you'd like to take from the house?  Aromatherapy, cooking items like spices or special utensils, comfy PJ's, favorite music, your whole feel-good armamentarium?

Have you given thought to how you will handle text and phone communication with your husband, and whether or how often you will or won't see each other in person? 

You might want to take a look at this thread on therapeutic separation (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141686.0).

WW

Hi, WW - I truly have lost my sense of self, but I'm not sure who or what I will go back to. I don't know if that person still exists anymore or if she has been destroyed. I feel so traumatized, and also as if I must have BPD too, because my emotions feel all over the map (and I'm typically very unemotional) and he's also been very skilled at convincing me that I'm the bad guy. It also seems like he's totally fine with this, and I'm the one who feels abandoned. He spent so much time telling me to "Get out/I don't love you" then reversing it and being loving again, then discarding again, over and over, that I finally started to believe him. I feel like I've been thrown away, and I guess I self-soothe by telling myself that it was my decision, but after being spoken to so harshly so many times, I just felt discarded and worthless, and like I should disappear. I've been having symptoms of physical illness as well, like digestive problems, cardiac symptoms and sleep disorders. I'm afraid to be alone like that, but also, he hasn't been supportive or shown any empathy or comfort since this whole stage began, so I guess being there with him didn't help either.


I'll have to see how it goes. Right now I can only envision crying all night every night and missing him and wanting to go home, and feeling like I'm exiled in a prison cell. I'm afraid I'll see the happy couple who is renting me the property, being kind to one another and playing with their kids, and I will feel miserable and lonely. I really am dreading this. How did you manage? Did you eventually move back together? If so, how did it all roll out?


I can't say I'm feeling the pom-poms yet, but I do thank you for the encouragement. I think my partner has gotten worse with age, because the one woman he had a serious long term relationship with, and the only other one he lived with, left him after 12 years and two kids for another man. I think that destroyed him, and he has only gotten worse over the years. I am the only other woman he has lived with or fallen in love with in over a decade. (There were a few half-hearted attempts at dating during that time, but they really never went anywhere.) I think I got a way more damaged version of him than she ever had. I am having trouble feeling like this is a boundary I have set to protect myself and more like I was forced out against my will, but finally had to consent just to stop being treated so badly, and blamed for everything. I guess it feels more like an act of desperation under duress than it does a carefully planned boundary, or anything that will benefit me. Though I am struggling with every fiber of my being to try to convince myself it will.


I haven't yet. I'm sort of paralyzed with fear to do any of it. I dread having to start the packing, and I think I will be reduced to a sobbing mess when I start trying to put things in a box. The thought of trying to make it feel like home (though I was cheer-leading myself in the last post) is something I don't even really want to do. I am going to try, but today I am just not feeling it.


We haven't gotten that far, though we haven't decided on NC or not to see each other. He knows I still want to come tend to my garden, and not NOT see each other at all. I'm not sure we have a plan, though. I am afraid of putting too much time or space between us, or too little contact. I'm afraid he will forget me, and the value I once had to him. I'll just disappear from his memory, or he'll convince himself he only remembers the bad times.


Thank you for that. 

Thanks, Sunandmoon!   How did you handle it in the worst of times? Did you ever live apart? Were there times when you truly believed it was over, with no hope?


Thanks BD!   I hope I find reason to applaud soon too. Fingers crossed!

BD, I am so sorry for your pain 

Thanks for opening up to us about how you are feeling.  When we have been keeping it together for so long, admitting that we are scared and admitting the depth of our feelings, even to ourselves, can be very scary in its own right.

It's OK for the current situation to both feel like boundary setting and feel like fleeing.  They are just different facets of the same thing.  Don't feel like you have to waste limited energy resolving it into one simple way to look at it.  As time progresses, you will be conscious of different facets of the situation, all of which have validity.

Do you have any friends who can help you pack?  It feels like you really need an in-person friend or two.

And hey, time for a checkup on your support system.  Aim for at least five different sources of support, with at least a couple in person, and hopefully one a therapist.  bpdfamily counts as one.  Are you seeing a therapist?  What about other sources of support?

Finally, have faith in yourself.  We do.  The woman you used to be is much closer than you think.  You will start to see glimmers of her.  It's totally natural for your emotions to be all over the place now.  That's a normal reaction to an abnormal situation.  It does not mean that you have BPD.  I have found myself having wild emotional swings -- sometimes I remind myself that I don't have BPD and that helps a little.  Other times I just acknowledge that I'm under a terrible strain.

My wife is still living separately, with a restraining order.  Things are progressing slowly.  She has not made much progress in accountability for the domestic violence, so we're stuck until that improves.  We may get started with a family therapist soon, though I'll believe it when I see it, as any hint that we might address tough issues seems to give my wife a "run" impulse.  I think we've got a pretty extreme situation, and may not be your best benchmark.

WW

BD. I listen along and my heart goes out to you hun.  
You seem like a wonderful person. I'm sorry you've had so much chaos lately.





roland,
This is a very hard thing I have tried to express this and you said it so simply. I don't want to believe that my husband deliberately laid in wait to cause a break with my FOO.
But the more I dig in the easier it seems to be true and believable.

BD I'm sorry to come back so late to this. These are astonishing developments. Seconding WW in saying you have really done an amazing job here.


BD I know this feeling so well. Reminds me of the one time she managed to kick me out and said I would never see our son again and I stayed in a crappy hostel room. I get the same feeling every time I see a happy, normal looking couple / family. EVERY time. I think the best thing we can do in this situation is stay mindful and remember that this is just one small stage of our lives and does not define us. We are not prisoners, just people in a tight spot that we are working hard to get out of. We will have healthy love one day. And though those people look like they have perfect lives, there are definitely big problems we don't see. Everyone has them.    

Hi Catlady , I know how you feel. I don't think our partners were acting with a high level of intentionality, but more that it was the BPD finding an outlet for expression in our FOO. I actually believe my wife deep down wants me to have a good relationship with my FOO, and in an even deeper place, she wants to as well. I think the BPD seizes on what's there in the moment to create chaos. I could never understand why sometimes my wife would flip out if I left a dish on the counter and other times be totally fine. I think the times she lost it were when her BPD cycle was about to restart.

~ROE

Hi, WW! Thank you for the kindness and support! It's going to be him. I'm not packing much, just the survival stuff. The rest can be dealt with when things calm down.


I'm limited in my support being an immigrant in a foreign overseas country, and working long hours with a long commute back the suburbs. I'm pretty socially isolated, largely by choice, as I've always been very socially introverted and not the sort to open up much.

So far I have this:
1.) BPD family.
2.) My own therapist - but she's online in the U.S.
3.) Work colleagues whom I occasionally socialize with. One I am pretty close with and can confide in. She has a BPD relative, as well.
4.) A couple of local friends. We don't meet often, but they are good company, and very supportive.
5.) I guess I could/should cultivate a fifth. Might serve me to talk more to my best childhood friend who is always there and supportive. I haven't been in touch with her as much lately, because of just life stress getting in the way. Technically, she's still there. But also in the U.S.

I probably have more of a support system than I realize, I just haven't been good about using it.


Ouch - I'm sorry to hear this, WW. I really do hope that some time and space help out some, and that the two of you reach the best possible outcome. You are obviously a very kind person with a lot of insight. Perhaps enough to know that you should be happy. 


Thank you, Catlady! As do you. At least we aren't all suffering the chaos alone. We have each other. 


I imagine this is true! I once heard a saying ":)on't think you know what is going on inside other people's houses. You don't." That goes both ways, I suppose. People who look happy on the outside may be in pain in private... .and many of us who are openly in pain, perhaps even due to our home life or r/s... .have happy private moments in between, and that's why we fight for this, for the ones we love.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, and I suppose it's more common than we know. I am starting to realize that while my situation seems to be so severe right now, there are other couples who have been through worse and maybe a therapeutic separation now, at the 2.5 year mark, might save us 20+ years of cyclic arguments, and increasing conflict. I don't want to reside elsewhere, even temporarily. But he's in crisis and needs sapce and understanding and I will provide that in hopes of eventually coming out on the other side intact - with him.

I have done some serious soul searching, and went on a "re-con" mission to our old emails that we used to exchange in the beginning when we first began to date. Through all the FOG, I had forgotten that we once were a bit opposite. I was the one who needed a ton of space, and he was the one trying to connect, and in retrospect - we had our odd little bickerings from the outset, but he was (is) a really good man who was doing his best. I share the blame in our troubles. I failed to understand his complexities in many ways.

Please read:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325953.new#new

I recently came clean on my situation with a couple of dear first cousins who I don't see enough and was surprised at how much love and support there was.  I felt silly for not reaching out sooner!  Yes, I agree, you undoubtedly have untapped sources of support.  I tend to get introverted and isolate myself when under extreme stress.  Learning to reach out has not been natural for me, but it has been effective!

WW

Dear BD

I am so sorry for applauding when you feel so bad! Please excuse the rampant cheerleader 

But as Wentworth said, you may want to go back and read that 'bravado post' often... .I hear a lot of truth and objective assessment of your situation in there.

Of course you are feeling fragile. You've had a rough journey up to this point and, even though you are following your instincts, it's normal to be filled with doubt and feeling lost.


I handled the worst of times probably much like you are feeling now, BD. Sick to my stomach. Lost,  angry, sad, frustrated... .all those feelings.

Over the years, learning about BPD, putting things in perspective, having strong boundaries, being true to myself <- that's a big one for me, and being confident that life would go on with or without him have all helped. I don't find myself in that place anymore.

We've never lived apart but I have left twice in our time together. Hopped on a plane and got out of here to give myself space to think!

The first time I just left because he was behaving so badly and there didn't seem to be an end in sight. Rather than put up with it every day, I took myself away and booked into a nice villa. Went no contact and spent some time with myself. When I did finally contact him, he was frantic and I think that was a good lesson... .usually I would always stay at home, keeping everything running normally and trying to be the responsible one.

The only time I really thought it might be over was when he actually filed for divorce! It was over something so silly (to me) but followed weeks of dysregulation, raging and silent treatment. In the middle of it, he came home one day with some papers and announced he was divorcing me. That was tough! It took a lot of patience convincing him that I wasn't interested in having an affair with anyone (which is what it was all about - I didn't realise how deep his jealousy and possessiveness ran at that time).

Afterwards, when things settled down, he explained that his plan was to divorce me and move out but we would still keep running our business together ( ). We'd still see each other and, eventually "I would realise how good he was to me and we would get back together and remarry, maybe in a couple of years when 'I learned my lesson'".

Wow - BPD thinking! Anyway, once things were calm again I sat him down and explained in careful detail how something like that would really work. I.e. If we divorced, we would sell our house and our business, I would move away from this island forever and change my phone number so he could never contact me and we would never see each other again. Because that's how I roll.

I think that was a good reality check for him.

The second time I left, he was dysregulating again and hardly coming home, and I was left with the house and the business to look after again, so I hopped on a plane and texted him on the way to the airport that I was gone. Just that. This wasn't a game or a ploy to get him back.

I spent some time on my own thinking about what I really wanted and I also looked at properties to rent. I went totally no contact.

Eventually I did have to contact him because of our business. He was frantic and told me he thought I had left the country and he'd never see me again. It was a good wake-up call for him about how fast I could be gone and how he would have no way of contacting me if I decide that it really is enough.

Because being an expat works both ways. To a certain extent, we have to rely on our partners because we are strangers in a strange land and, when things go wrong, we can be very isolated and alone. They can use that as power over us and that is not a good situation to be in.

But the reverse side is that we do have another country to go back to - a country where we hold the cards, have family and friends to support us, and are capable of making a new life without them, whether 'home' or in another country - because I'm not really scared to take a leap of faith.
I've done it before.

Anyway, since that last time, things have really settled down over the past few years. Which shows they can control themselves when they really have to!

The important thing for me is that, when I was seriously looking at new places to live, I gained a lot of strength knowing that I could do this. Sure, I'd be heart-broken and sad for a long time but I also knew within me that I'm quite capable of building a new life and being happy again.

Something shifted and I think he felt it too.

I still use the tools but I've found that, while in the early years it was only me doing the work, over time he has joined me and I see the efforts he makes to hold himself back, to watch his words, to remember we love each other. It's been a balancing act of being tough and compassionate.

Hope this helps you BD. I hope you find your strength again 

Oh, that's really good news, WW. I'm glad you were able to get that support. Yes, I should work on reaching out a bit. I worry a lot about overwhelming people with "drama". This is seriously heavy sh!t, and unless you live with a person with BPD, it's REALLY hard to fathom the amount of stress and turmoil that happens. A layperson who has no experience with this disorder would likely be overwhelmed by TMI and maybe even skeptical that what I'm saying is even plausible. I guess I could give them "truth lite" - but I fear once the floodgate opens, it would be a tsunami. 


Wow , yes, sunandmoon, your reply really did help a lot, and helped to put some things in perspective that I hadn't thought about because I've never had the experience of being in a situation like this before. But you have, and your insight really helps. Thank you!


Ha ha! No worries at all. I do appreciate the vote of confidence, and I hope to feel better soon!


Thank you for saying that. I assume that the reason that I feel so raw and edgy and afraid is because this is the first major step I have taken to change the status quo. I have always feared change a little. I would say that when push has come to shove, I have been very brave about many things. But never in a fast way. Usually when I have no other choice. Then I leap as if I'm leaping off a monumental precipice, not really knowing if I'll hit the ground dead.

A good example is that I have always had a morbid fear of flying on airplanes. Like - such mortal terror that I never traveled anywhere... .until I was well into adulthood, and got an offer for a job assignment in Australia. I lived in San Francisco, and this would be a 14 hour flight. I tried to back out, but was essentially goaded into it by the employer. My solution was to go to the doctor and get Xanax, haha! Not really one to use meds, that was a massively weird thing for me. I recall boarding the plane in a cold clammy sweat, one nerve fiber away from running back off to "dry land" and back to the safety of my bed. But I told myself the Xanax would kick in and when the plane went down in a seething inferno of flames, I'd be too out-cold to know what hit me. I sat in my seat and took a glass of wine... .or two. I started to relax, and eventually nodded off to sleep. I felt a sudden jarring bump which abruptly woke me, and heard a voice over the loudspeaker say "Welcome to Sydney". I sh!t you not. I didn't even wake up once to pee. I slept for fourteen hours straight! And traveled the entire perimeter of Australia on that trip. All commuter flights, hopping from Sydney all the way to Darwin, then departing from Sydney again. Eventually I no longer needed anxiety pills to fly. (Still love my wine though!) After Australia, I traveled completely solo to 23 countries in four years' time - my favorite ones - the Nordics - multiple times over.

I climbed this fjord, in the middle of a snowstorm, and stood on the very, very edge and looked down. I was the only one up there that day. https://goo.gl/images/Q6FYKs

In January of 2015, I packed two suitcases and left my life behind in the U.S., and moved alone with no real plan to Europe. 3.5 years later, I'm still here - faltering in my relationship, but thriving in every other way. Why did I do such a seemingly impulsive thing? Because after 16 visits to this country, I knew I felt more at home here than I ever had anywhere else. So, yeah... .I'm cautious, but brave when push comes to shove. Either that, or I'm bat-sh!t insane. Maybe a little of both. ;-)


Yup, me too. Reliable to a fault. Which I think put me at a huge disadvantage. He learned I wouldn't ever go anywhere. Until... .I would. When I just sadly got pushed too far, and couldn't take it anymore.


Ok, wow - that is actually MORE jarring than what I am doing. You left on a plane, and he had no idea where you were or if you were coming back. You may not have officially "moved out" but he had no way of knowing that. My partner knows that while this is the first time I have ever actually moved out, I will live walking distance away. He knows the door isn't closed. It's just... .open a small sliver. ;-)

Wow - he filed for divorce? You know, I really don't understand the impulsive things they do when in emotional crisis that would have catastrophic results if they actually saw them through. Most "nons" work on and discuss their differences. Try to find proactive solutions to arguments. BPD's panic and do some wild-a$$ stuff! A few weeks ago, my partner, without telling me, actually tried to file a restraining order against me!   

He received a somewhat scornful letter from the court essentially telling him that it was flatly denied, and that he was wasting the court's time "filing a claim that obviously has absolutely no merit". (Exact words.) They went on to explain to him that one cannot file a restraining order against someone and evict them from their shared living space if that person has zero history of any kind of crime against you, and is not even being investigated for any such thing. They concluded by saying that "a restraining order cannot be granted in cases where one partner is angry at the other. It is expected that you solve this yourself." One thing about my partner is that he acts on impulse, but quickly forgets what he has done. He left the open letter sitting face up on his office desk. I read it. Maybe he wanted me to see it, but I suspect not. I went up to him with it, and said "Really?" He looked mortified and folded it up, and said with a red face and downward stare, "Well they don't believe me anyway." I let it drop. But... .wow. That's a huge part of why I decided to move out. I was somewhat insulted, but also wanted him to see the consequences of his impulsive actions. When the smoke clears, he will miss my company, my emotional and financial contributions, our love life, my cooking, and all my help with the house chores, etc... .It's not to teach him a lesson in a vindictive way. But yes, it is a reality check.


Great, brave work, sunandmoon! This is the result I am hoping for too. 

Thank you, BD for raising that issue of what people can handle, and TMI.  It reminds me I forgot to add an important bit to my "broad sources of support" advice.  You don't have to tell everyone everything.  I've definitely gone into TMI territory with a couple of folks.  You can tell people as much as they can handle.  Simply telling a friend that you and your husband are separated, you're living in an apartment a short distance away, and that you are devastated but hopeful, that could help a lot.  Kind of like with our pwBPD where we validate emotions and don't worry so much about facts, put yourself in a situation with your support person where they can validate your true emotions even if you go light on facts.

WW

Hi BD

How's the move going? I'm sure this will be a very hard weekend for you - don't forget to reach out here for support if you need.

Sending you strength   

Thank you WW and sunandmoon! Moving is (kinda) done for now. I took what I needed for the next week, and a few other basics, and we'll meet again next weekend for a visit and so I can move a few more things. The agreed upon plan at this point is that I'm not extracting all traces of my existence from our home in one fell swoop. I'm taking enough to get by in a new space, and we will let things calm down and see what happens. This new flat is also quite small, so I really only can do compact living. It's a really nice place, though.

Right now I feel pretty raw and weird after moving out, and I feel a mixture of sadness, anxiety, relief, peace, turmoil, fear, panic, calm, loneliness, numbness, loss of lust for life... .and a lot of other things. If that weird, eclectic combo makes sense. We completed the move yesterday, and couldn't sleep last night. I managed to nod off for maybe an hour or so, and I had a dream about him. That we were together and happy, he was smiling and laughing with no traces of mental illness. I was devastated when I woke up.

It was a rough weekend preparing for the move, and he was all over the place, as we prepared for it and packed up. (Which despite his moods, he helped me with, completely, in the end.)

He vacillated between angry, sad, manic, hostile, bitter, accusing, critical, empathic, comforting, punitive, friendly... .well, everything, in the course of a few days. He had outbursts of rage, moments of clarity and support, and a few hyper-ventilative panic attacks. As a result, I felt pretty disjointed and traumatized as well.

Eventually, we did manage to collaborate to move me into my new little place down the street. He was teary and edgy in the end, but very helpful, taking me to Ikea and assembling a new kitchen workbench for me. He also took me to the grocery store so I could get my own food. At the end, as I was situated and he was leaving, we hugged, and agreed this wasn't the end, just a much needed sanity break. He told me (for the first time) "My head is so full of madness and disaster, that I have to deal with that before we can move forward. You deserve a stable man. I'm in therapy. I will keep going. This is not the end, and I don't want anyone else, but I feel like I can't even take care of myself or my kids when I'm like this. I need serious help."

And just like that... .I felt a weird twinge of something like relief. He's getting help, and realizes that something is wrong and he wants to fix it. Not me... .him. That's huge. (I also realize that I can be more validating and supportive. Working on that.) :-) In other words - it's not only him that wants or needs to improve or adjust a few things. His kids will be with him Sun-Thursday this week. (Yay!) I will be NC until then - not in a negative way - just to let him focus completely on his time with them.

Where to go now? That I'm not sure about. Baby steps, I guess. :-)

Hi BD, I think it's really great to hear that he's at least acknowledged his need for help and has shown some determination to do this. This is his action and kudos to him for it, but I am almost 100% sure it has much to do with the actions you've taken, particularly the decision to move out. It's shown him a consequence for his behavior and that the effects those behaviors are having on those around him are real. Good work!

It is all baby steps, but I think you've taken a few Bigfoot-sized steps today.

~ROE

Hi there ROE! 

Thank you for the kind words. I really am kind of confused about it all, and I'm having a hard time believing he is anything other than happy that I am gone, and his desire to improve has less to do with me and more to do with him finally realizing that his kids are catching on that something is horribly amiss with him.

At this point, I feel as if all his fatalistic break-up threats and screams of "I hate you, get out!" finally worked. In other words, I feel less like I decided to do this and more like I was forced out. After a while, I just had no fight left in me and wanted to stop hearing all the negativity, and all the guilt trips about how everything is my fault.

We'll see how it all rolls out, but I really do hope he is serious about trying to make positive changes. For everyone's sake. I'll see him for a bit on Thursday to pick up some things from the house.

Tonight and tomorrow I have made after work plans with friends (something I forgot I had in the middle of all this turmoil: friends) so that will be a nice distraction. Then, four days off. Thu-Sun. (Woo-hoo!)   :)

Hi BD

I'm sure it must feel so strange to be in your new flat - of course that's normal, especially after all the turmoil of the past two months. I imagine I would feel really disoriented and have a lot of emotions coming up. That's okay - you now have the space to sit with and examine those emotions.

Also space to heal. You've been through a LOT. It would be totally normal to be experiencing some ptsd symptoms after all that you've been through. Time to treat yourself with all the kindness you haven't been receiving... .

Why do you feel like you have been forced out, rather than making the decision to move out? Whose decision was it? Did you find your new flat yourself? How did you find it?

It's really positive that he acknowledged he has problems. And that he says he wants to work on them. That's a big relief when they finally acknowledge this. Very validating for us too.

Of course, it's not something that will happen overnight but hopefully his awareness will continue and help him to be honest and committed in therapy, so he can make real progress.

Your plans sound great! I'm so glad you are getting out and seeing friends! What is your new flat like? Do you have a balcony or a courtyard area where you can sit outside and enjoy the weather?

BD, that eclectic mix of emotions makes total sense!

It's also totally natural for your feelings (and his) about what this moveout means to be in flux, changing from one day to the next.

It's seasons like this that the saying "One day at a time" is meant for.  Just take it day by day.  Your plans to go out with friends sound great.

WW

Hi, sunandmoon! 

Thank you for your reply.   

I would say that I feel like I have been forced out because I would have never wanted this. When he started two months ago with his break-up threats and "GET OUT I HATE YOU!" drama, (again for the 100th time) I did the same as I always do, and went about my business doing what I could to "use the tools", validate, stay above the fray, etc. But then once his dysregulation lapsed into prolonged hostility and psychosis, it got to be overwhelming. Initially, I told him to go find me a flat, do the legwork, and facilitate the entire move, taking into consideration that evicting someone from a shared living space requires a certified written notice and three months grace period in this country. I asked him to cooperate with me in an adult manner to make this happen if it's what he really wanted. He did absolutely nothing. Not a damn thing, except plummet further down the rabbit hole.

One day I went online myself and found a place and just applied for tenancy. The renter, due to a housing shortage and extremely competitive rental market here, had over 285 requests in three days for the apartment. Each applicant had to write a letter essentially "selling ourselves" as the chosen tenant. I was picked, (fortuitously!) and moved in the following week. He begrudgingly gave me one weekend of his time to assist, and wasn't in the best attitude during it all, but he did do it. It was the bare minimum - I took care of almost everything myself. He drove me, moved some boxes, assembled a kitchen workbench. I handled the rest, all the apartment hunting, signing all the paperwork, setting the place up, etc... .relieving him of the burden of doing it - which I should have made him do, since I wanted no such thing. This is a rather drastic, expensive, inconvenient and painful overreaction to literally... .hurt feelings... .and a guy that can not emotionally cope in an adult relationship with a woman who has literally bent over backwards to be a good, caring and loyal partner. It's actually just... .sad and stupid and a huge, tragic waste.

But here's the real nuts and bolts of it all:

After so many instances of starting to feel safe with him, and actually looking forward to a future - thinking we were making progress, he would rip the rug out from underneath me in some horrible unexpected way again. Each time, I felt less and less safe. I resented that I could not look forward to holidays, vacations, birthdays, or even a sunny weekend grilling in the backyard, because planning anything that might be fun... .was never a reliable venture. So many plans, parties, get-togethers, events, even quiet sunny days alone were ruined by an unnecessary and unpredictable tsunami of discord that I never saw coming and could not prevent. I lost so many days that would have been perfect for just... .enjoying one another. So many moments I carried the household alone with no help because he just couldn't function.

Admittedly, after over two years of this, I began to feel rage toward him. Sickening hurt and anger that made me start for the first time ever recently to attack back - finally. And of course he would gloat about what a terrible person I was for yelling at him, or slamming a door after he had verbally berated me into the depths of hell over and over again, and I had held my tongue for days, weeks, months. Until I couldn't anymore.

Voila - I'm the aggressive one - his bully. I have to give him credit for how he managed to maneuver that. He pushed me over the edge more times than I can count - deliberately, and vilified me for having a natural reaction to prolonged abuse. I finally saw the light one day and realized I deserved better than this disrespect. I am a good person, a good partner, and a really solid and trustworthy house mate and life mate.

Over time, this treatment began to erode my self esteem, security, and trust. For the first time in my life I began to have thoughts about self harm and suicide. I began to feel like one of those kids you hear about who have been bullied and tormented so mercilessly by classmates or peers that they go into a closet and hang themselves. I never wanted to yell at him or lose my temper but after so many assaults on my emotional safety - so many switch backs and carpet yanks, so many snide remarks out of the blue, so many plans ruined, so much time spent trying to do damage control and repair of his melt-downs, so many times of hiding the truth of what was going on in our house to protect his integrity and privacy... .while he launched a distortion campaign against me, and alienated me from everyone we knew in common... .I began to lose it.

THAT is why I moved out. I don't want to be that person. Ever. I don't want to become as unstable as he is - and it was beginning to happen. I had to get away from him before I too became a monster.

Somewhat stupidly, I guess... .I still love him and still dream of a day when we can have the happiness, fulfillment, and love we both deserve - that every human deserves. That was what we planned and what we set out to do. He used to have a clear vision of that, and was working with me toward it. Then he fell into the mouth of madness.

But right now - I don't have the luxury of wallowing in mental illness. I'm struggling to get by in a foreign country, alone essentially, when I once had a live-in partner to share expenses and responsibilities with. I have to make it to work every day, be productive, live independently, and count on only myself to do and pay for everything now. He cannot provide any type of support, emotional or otherwise. The healthcare system here is in tatters due to a booming population, and staffing shortages. And most of all... .someone has to be the sane one in my interactions with him... .and it's not going to be him.

So yes, I feel forced out. By circumstances. I left only out of necessity, not by desire.

Back to my flat - it's lovely. It's a 15 minute bus ride from the city center in the beautiful suburban country side. It's a semi wooded neighborhood with large single family houses, which sit really far apart. A young family owns the main house and I rent the smaller private house on the lot. It's smallish, but modern and nice, and I have my own large terrace, yard, and when I look out the window, I just see green grass and forest. It's quiet and totally private. The bathroom is big and modern, and very nice with a fancy whirlpool tub. Hell, if I am going to be forced out of my home, I will not settle to live in a miserable little box. I can grill outdoors and grow my own herbs and veggies. It's like the place I shared with him... .only smaller and my own safe space. I made it a point to only move a three minute drive/20 minute walk down the road. I hope when he comes to his senses - and I have to believe he will... .it will be easy enough to return home someday soon enough.  Right now I see this as exile. A punishment of sorts. But I will try to make it as tolerable as possible.


Thank you, WW! It was fun. I'm doing the same tonight. Next week I have a group lunch with work friends, and on the first of July, I am going on a horseback riding day trip by the ocean to ride Icelandic horses with the same work friends. I love horses, and used to be an avid rider - but it's been almost 20 years since I have been on a horse. I cannot wait to do this. It's been far too long since I have been in touch with my fearless adventurer side. I had started to forget who I was. That being a worthwhile person who deserves to be treated with respect.  :thought:

The horseback riding sounds fun!  And no, it is not stupid to still be in love.

Your explanation about being forced out was helpful.  It sounds like you're not describing it as a power play by him, but more like being forced out by a natural disaster, living in temporary housing until it's safe to go back.  Does that sound accurate?  B.t.w., your temporary housing sounds wonderful!  A good place to recuperate and find some joy.

WW

BD... .WOW. It seems fair to say you've gained some strong perspective since you've been on your own? This seems like a big tonal shift from a few weeks ago when you were focused on how to save your partner from himself.  I am very sad for what you've had to suffer, especially in a foreign country, but I am so impressed and inspired by how you've worked to save yourself. Amazing job.

~ROE

Hey, WW!   

Yes, that's mostly accurate. I think there was some element of power play on his part, but I think it was more rooted in defense mechanisms than calculated hostility. I do think he wanted to alienate me to feel "safe". Mostly from the responsibilities that come from being at least 50% accountable for emotional maturity in a relationship.

But the natural disaster analogy is totally spot on. Like most natural disasters, there were warning signs, but one can't ultimately prevent the impending disaster. A strange alteration in barometric pressure might be a precursor to a hurricane, and you might observe it and know full well what's coming... .but it still doesn't give you the means with which to stop it. Nothing does. It's still gonna happen.

So yes, I'd say that's where I am at now. In a hurricane shelter, so to speak. Riding out the storm... .but once the storm lifts, I'm afraid to see the pile of splintered debris that might be all that remains of the place I once called home.


Thank you, ROE! Yes, I suppose it's true that I erroneously clung to the belief that with just the right amount of love and understanding he'd be fine and we'd be fine. But as we all know far too well on the BPD Fam boards... .no. Eventually, I had to shift my perspective to "putting my own oxygen mask on" if you know what I mean. I'm still here for him when the time is right to reconnect, but that may take a while. (If it happens at all.)

During the last two months when he has lashed angrily out at me, telling me to get out, and saying how much he hates me, (alternating with how much he loves me) he maintained that in order for him to feel better he needed his space. Finally, out of compassion for his waning sanity, I left, and he seems to only be getting worse. I went three days with NC, assuming things would calm down, but he re-initiated contact in a not so nice manner. Just to stir the pot again, and send a series of defensive and antagonistic mails. *sigh* I have no idea what triggered it. I hadn't even said a word.

We were to meet today for me to pick up a few more things, and either Saturday or Sunday to just "hang out". He left last Sunday (moving day) on civil terms agreeing that we would continue moving some items, but also - no hard feelings. We'd meet again soon.

Not gonna happen. He wrote 11 emails yesterday, panicking about the details, changing the plans, making demands and ultimatums, saying things that made no sense "I need to know which house plants are yours! I will take care of them as I see fit!" (They all are mine. He can't grow anything and has never tried.) It was all weird. He then went on about his stress and his health and how he has to think about that. Sure.

I sent this reply:

"I'm sincerely worried about the stress that you mentioned you were feeling. That must be very hard on you. What I can do is collaborate with you to find a time that works better for you, so we can take care of some things later. Please let me know if there is anything additional I can do to support you during this stressful time."


He came to my new flat yesterday when I was still at work (not by invitation, or with me even knowing) and dropped off an odd bag of odds and ends, and a charcoal Webber grill that while nice, I did not request and can't possibly use right now. He left this stuff by the doorstep. (?)

It seems my leaving hasn't helped him to regulate any. He swore that was what he needed.

Yes, I'm working on myself but one lingering doubt remains. How the hell can I not get it right? Everything I do has a bad result, and I have tried it all. That's a bit humbling.

Hi BD

Wow - your summary of why you moved out really helps put things into perspective. I'm so sorry you've had to endure such a rollercoaster of madness. I can imagine it's taken a huge toll on your nerves. 


Because it's really not just the past two months... .it has been over two years of you trying to hold back the tsunami. Of having your hopes dashed, of having your life turned upside down without warning, of having your heart broken a little more each time... .

These are important realisations you are having. I know you still love him and have hope that it will work one day.

However, I am so glad you have taken this time apart... .to help you heal from some of the stress all this has taken on you - body and soul - and to start putting things in perspective. It may have been in response to endless pushing from him but you intuitively knew the right thing to do.

Is he going to use this time in a constructive way? I think you know the answer really. You're seeing it now.

All you can really do is what you have been doing. Be calm, be the stable one, keep a good grasp on reality. You didn't do this, you didn't cause it and you can't cure it. But you can model healthy sane behaviour and hope that, one day, he snaps out of it and really makes the effort to pull himself out of the rabbit hole.

Do you need anything from the house, things you were expecting to get yesterday? If so, I would just go over there and get what you need. You don't need to be involved in a scene; just pick up the things you want to make yourself comfortable. Sounds like your house plants need rescuing too!

If you're willing, do you want to share what he is saying in these emails? I'm guessing you never got a response to that beautiful love letter you wrote?

Until then, please take excellent care of yourself despite your heartache. At this stage of our lives we shouldn't be going through 'teenage angst ', which is what a relationship with a pwBPD often feels like.

Your new house sounds so lovely. I can almost picture it! Do I understand correctly that you have a break from work until Monday? Why not set that Webber up in the garden and have yourself a grill? That whirlpool bath sounds like it's crying out for some yummy bubble bath and you in it with a book and a glass of wine too!

BD, my friend, remember that this is not a situation where if you just "get it right," all will be well.  All you can do is learn and practice and do your very best.  You can apply your talents and creativity and energy, making sure you're explored as many avenues to improve the situation as possible.  Much is beyond your control.  Your efforts are heroic.  Relationship success is your goal of course.  But do not judge yourself based on whether that goal is met.  In our eyes, you've already passed the exam and are far into extra credit territory.  Your story is far from told.  Hang in there, and we'll stick with you.

WW

Hi BD,

We share so much in common! I am so impressed though in that you are so far ahead of me in functioning in your overseas life. I would love to have a great job and my own place here, I don't think I could ever pull that off in this country! And I'm sure I could get that in order easily in my home country at this point either! It's a big climb.

I dealt with a very extreme rolling crisis for many years. The only thing that finally slowed it down to anything looking like a normal life was encouraging him, and gently guiding him, towards taking medication. Has your guy shown any kind of interest in such an approach? It just sounds like too much when they go on and on like this at such an extreme level.

When you see the side of him that loves you, what does that side say? Do you ever see it? Is there a way to get through to that side of him? I had to a lot of speechifying to hold onto that person and help get him to a doctor. He is now, finally, extremely grateful about this... .but the hard part for us now is my love has been nearly totally drained. I am not sure I love him enough anymore to hold on... .still considering this.  It's okay that you love him. I know I did through some horrible times too. We are human and we naturally want to love and make things better.

with deep compassion and friendship, pearl.

Hi guys - thank you for your posts.

I'm at rock bottom right now. I have never felt so bad in my life. Horrible experience yesterday.

I need to keep to myself for a while.

Okay! Sending you lots of   and     !

We're here when you are ready!

I'm so sorry to hear this, BD

Take all the time you need and be very gentle with yourself. We'll be here to help when you're ready.

Hoping things get better for you soon   

Hi Basement Dweller,
I'm sorry.
You've been through a lot.
This is very hard stuff.
Do what you can to put yourself first & be kind to yourself.
'ducks