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hey guys so I went to this party, which I will post about in a different post. i was there enjoying myself. and then met this girl.

we chatted for a while before I left and we absolutely clicked. I was sobering up, and she just started drinking. we exchanged instagrams, but she told me she doesnt really use it. then she asked for my snapchat and how we should meet up and get drinks. I gave her my snapchat after she asked for it, but I got home and i checked my phone and her adding me didnt register. but she did add me on instagram. she told me she keeps her instagram private so im not sure if she will accept my follow.

here is the dilemma.

I told her I would message her on snapchat to see if she made it home safe, but she forgot to click the add button on snapchat when she looked my name up because she was a bit buzzed on alcohol.

I can

1)find her facebook ( which I did) by the name she has on her instagram and say something like "hey sorry if this is awkward but our snapchats didnt add, and I wanted to check if your uber got you home safe! We met at the party in case you forgot "
 or something light hearted
or

2) see if she follows me back on instagram in a long shot which she only follows 1 person on there and she only has 2 posts on there and the account is private.

I'd keep it really simple as she has somehow managed not to link two communication attempts.

In her fb inbox it would be : ' Hi ... .snapchat didn't add, . Hope you got home safely.x'

Que sera... .

Soo. I typed in a part of her name on my friends search on Snapchat and half of her name popped up in a username and I’m assuming it’s her cuz idk anyone with that username in my friends . So she took my phone and added herself.I did message her on snap and luckily didn’t on Facebook yet. Good things come to those who wait I think

She just messaged me back.

Being patient and waiting is always the right move and letting things flow

Hi CryWolf,

Yes, good to take things as they come! Interesting window into modern dating here! Yikes! Ya'll get linked up all over the place and then it can get tough later as you cut each other back out of such spaces.

What do you like about her so far? What are you looking for, big picture, relationship-wise?

take care, pearl.

Big picture I'd like to date her and have a possible relationship. I met her at the party last night. A bunch of guys were hitting on her, and I just asked her about her pineapple cup and if it was associated with spongebob . Then we chatted, some guy came and tried having her take shots. And i asked this guy next to me, 'is that her bf?" and he said "i dont know" and I said, "i think he got insecure and pulled her away" and he started laughing . And then she came back to me, and we chatted, flirted. she followed me on her instagram, and then took my phone and followed herself on her snapchat. she told me about this bar, and if ive ever been and i said no, but how we should go together. and she said definetly. we have been talking today here and there about music tastes.

Last night, after she got my info, she went with her friends. then we bumped into each other again, and hung out alone for a while. talked about school, careers, random things. it was really fun. She was flirting back, i was flirting. she had to use the bathroom and i told her how the door didnt lock, but ill protect the door so no one comes in. I held her drinks for her while she used the restroom. it was a house party. then after a while I said goodbye, and we had a semi long hug.

I felt butterflies. .

id like to ask her on a date and get to know more about her in person, but im not sure how. i dont want to come off strong. and i think i might be overthinking a bit too.

Last night, I wasnt even expecting to meet any girls or "get numbers" i honestly was going to guys and having convos and being social. then this girl came out of nowhere. shows me interest, and yea.

WE Talked over Snapchat until 3am last night. I resumed the convo this morning. She forgot what we were talking about because Snapchat erases the messages and I jokingly said how she wanted to go to a bar with me this week (bar she’s mentioned when I met her) and she said yes she wants to but she lost her license and they sent it to the wrongs adress so she’s wIting for a new one. I told her we can do dinner instead and she asked for my availability. Then she said “ I work an working those nights :/“

Is she blowing me off? Or am I overthinking?

I responded with “lame, what days are you free?”

I hope I’m not coming off strong. What do you guys think? I don’t want to distance myself like I did with the past 2 girls or come off strong. Plus she’s seems interested to talk to me

My friend told me, “move on, she’s not interested” and I think she said this because she may have some underlying feelings for me but she has a bf and I’m too convenient to listen to her when I’m single. Just a speculation on my part.

Hi, CryWolf!


Aw!  I hear you asked her out and that you're waiting for a reply.  It's normal to feel anxious after putting yourself out there.  Give her some time to respond back.

Also, I'm with pearlsw on this:


How are you doing today?

Hey Insom! I feel nervous, I did ask her out, above your post, and just waiting now. Anxious and nervous. Only seen her once but we clicked in that moment and it was great. And I know it wasn’t the alcohol because I was almost sober and she’s just started drinking but barely.

I’m just waiting on a reply from her and see her schedule. I don’t want her to think I can’t take no for an answer or come off strong. If our schedules don’t work I know a tacl place that’s open til 2am that id  like to suggest but so far she seems easygoing. She doesn’t seem cold or bored.

I’m just nervous and excited and anxious. It’s a strange feeling to have over someone I only seen once.

Its okay Cry.  You are getting back into the stteam of life, cut yourself some slack.

It will be o.k.  go with your gut.  It takes courage to get out there.  Bravo!

Thank you so much Juju 

She replied to me a while ago.

She said, "saturday will work, just depends when i get off from work"

and I said "Lets do saturday, I know a pretty good taco spot thats open pretty late"


I guess Im scared of preventing things from going south again. I am going with the flow, and being myself. I stop myself from over reaching, and wait on her. :)

just anxious in-between

Yay!  Have fun  :0)

She told me how she might get off at 1am and I told her that’s fine with me and I’m a night owl .

But I don’t want her to think we’rekinda forcing dinner at 1am. Like I don’t want her to be tired or uncomfortable after a long day at work. Should I reschedule? I’m just working a lot more now so it’s difficult making plans and I was unavaible with the last girl that I don’t want to do it with this one.

She’s showing me interest, she messages me back like she is interested and doesn’t wait until forever and give me a dry response. She even told me when she gets off work and is open to meeting at 1am for dinner/drinks.

I want things to go smooth and as perfect as can be. I want to make her comfortable and enjoy herself and get more dates with her. I am thinking long term when I should think short term. I’m not good at this dating stuff but I’m learning.

I gave up meeting girls or even dating and focus on myself. Then a couple days later, I went to a party I didn’t know I was going until an hour before and invited to last second by people I just met. Then I met her. 2/3 guys hit on her in front of me. And she ended up talking to me for over 30 minutes until the party ended. I even had some guys come to me and high five me while she was in the bathroom but I told them it’s not like that to humble myself in the moment.
She even gave me her phone to put my info in. The other guys got jealous because one of them messaged me and then told me in person they wanted her Info and for me to give it and I said no that’s not right.

We have been talking over Snapchat, I would like to exchange phone numbers soon but with how the new generation is. People are a bit scared to share information and it seems to push them away. She is 21 and I am 24. So there is some gap in age, but not signifant.

I think I’m going to message her my number and say “btw here’s my number”
I don’t know why I am reassessing every move I make. Or every future move.

What is your gut telling you?  When you picture meeting her at 1:00 for tacos, how does that make you feel?  Picture reaching out to amend your plans.  How does that make you feel?

(Don't overthink.  Feel.)

Tacos close at 2am so I might have to find something new.  but I know some other place or can find somewhere else.
I picture her going home and rushing to get ready, or being tired and having to force herself to go out when she probably wants to rest after work. And if she does get off late I don’t want her so tired that the conversations are dense because she’s tired. Idk I’m overthinking. I haven’t overthought this much since I met my PBPDEx years ago. Lol

If I reschedule, more debates about “how about this day or that day and the I can’t then but how this and then I can’t this” and not finding a solution. It seems that she gets off work late, she’s a server. And I work 9-9 at my Job or 3-9. And the day I do have off she works. So it’s a bit annoying trying to make plans. It was like that with the last girl. We only hung out twice in a month.

I might ask her if she’s free Sunday, but I believe we are playing it by ear right now depending on when she gets off Saturday. I’m sure if Saturday doesn’t work she seems like she will see me another day. Cuz if she wouldn’t she could have just ghosted me/stopped replying by now

The first date is everything. I’ve had good first dates before, but the time andmaking it work leaves me a little window frame

Let's try again.  When you picture meeting her at 1:00 for tacos, how does that make you feel?  What you wrote above is how you imagine she might feel. 


 It sounds like the prospect of making new plans feels annoying.  (Good job with this one, by the way, saying what you feel! |iiii) 

Meeting her at 1am or anytime of the day makes me feel excited to see her .  But I feel anxious meeting her late because I’ll be too worried how she feels and I don’t like that. It feels kind of rushed

Sweet! 


I hear you're thinking a lot about her feelings and that worrying about them is making you feel anxious.  Are there other people in your life you can think of that you've had this experience with - trying to predict their feelings and then feeling anxious about getting things right?

Would she have said yes if she didn't want to go?


Is sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself.  Any way to take some of that pressure off?

I used to predict my exBPd feelings. It never really worked out and just made me more anxious. With the other girls after, I took everything at face value instead of over analyzing. I should continue with this. I guess how the last two girls I dated ended with them ghosting me, it has me on alert and anxious. Not good. It has me scared but that’s the art of dating. You never know and it shouldn’t make you afraid.


You’re right she probably wouldn’t have said yes or even told me about the time she got off and said some other day to meet up. I should take this as a sign of interest. I feel pressure because she showed interest in me over other guys so I feel I have to keep my composure or set the bar high and do what I did which was just be myself around her.

I’m not sure how to take the pressure off. I feel pressured by myself and making myself anxious over probably nothing. The more I go with the flow the better things go. The more I just do things, without thinking of the next consequence things turn in my favor. I have to be fine with whatever happens.

What do you suggest?

Hey CryWolf,

I'm late to the party here, but I wanted to say congrats on all of this - how exciting to feel something fun! I've been feeling something intriguing out myself and I must say it is a welcome respite from the pain, anger, and sadness.

I do want to call attention to something and see how you feel about it. You mentioned she doesn't follow anyone on Instagram. Does that concern you at all? One thing I noticed in my STBXw was how she carefully curated her social media, deleted it often, started new profiles or opened old ones, or used her follows and likes as a way to keep control over her image and the people in her life. Now, we all do this to a certain extent - that's social media for you. But, it was on a different level for her. I just wanted to bring it up as maybe an orange flag and see what you think.

Keep us all posted -this is really exciting!

it sounds like things are going pretty well.

she showed pretty clear interest from my viewpoint and you responded.

most people have pretty busy lives, and getting firm on plans without pushing too hard can be tricky.

shes the one that threw out getting together at 1 am. if it works for you, i say go with it.

Yea, it wasn’t a definitive yes but I am free Sunday-Monday so I might offer and say “I’m free Sunday & Monday if any of those days works with your schedule”

Not sure.

she told me, she doesnt follow anyone on that instagram. When she followed me on it, I only saw pics of her posting personal things like siblings, or random pics. She doesnt follow anyone on it, or follows. She also keeps that account private to herself. She blocked me on it and unfollowed me on that account. I didnt say anything by it, and she did mention the night before that she doesnt follow with anyone. She does follow me on her public account, however she only has 2 pics, and follows like 50 people and followed by 50. She doesnt seem to care much for social media. She hasnt even posted on snapchat, just talks to me on there. today we both didnt message a lot. I was busy with work. we sent about, three messages back and forth each. I want to keep the attraction high and keep it enticing for when I see her, but I also dont want her to forget me or lose interest. Im in a stuck position.

Today she asked me if we can do Sunday because of her time constraint t and I agreed because it would work with my schedule as well.

This whole time I was stressing about asking her and worrying. She asked me, and I said yea, and I said I’ll pick her up at 7. And she said “okay :)”

Ugh I’m a sucker for smiley faces. I feel like a teenager lmao.

I was creating problems and anxiety myself.

I stopped talking to my female friend about her because I can tell she is so negative now. I told her how she is only free at 1am, and my friend said “sound she like an excuse, she’s lame and flakey”  after hearing that it put me in anxiety all day. Put my friend is a negative person, she’s had dreams about me before. And she is in a relationship with someone she met 6 months beforehand he got deployed overseas. He doesn’t let her hang out with guys and she has to justify hanging out with me if a group is Involved. I need to be weary of who to talk to.

Oh, good!  I'm glad this worked itself out.  I'm with om, it sounds like things are going well.


Great observation, CryWolf!   |iiii  And congrats on setting this limit.

It's normal to feel excited and nervous, maybe even anxious, when you've met someone you like so take this next bit for what it's worth.  I can relate very much to this mix of feelings you've described - feeling highly attuned to and concerned about another person's feelings while at the same time feeling a little out of control - desiring more control.  While I don't experience this in all my relationships, it does come up for me in very certain situations with particular people.  This article about  Codependency and Codependent Relationships (https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships) has helped me understand more what may be going on.

probably reading too much in, but so far i hear a good, clear communicator, who is interested and consistent, but not enmeshed.


some of this is normal. those early stages can be really vulnerable, we worry about what to say and do, and getting it right. i tend to take it pretty far though, and when ive found myself there, its usually been a sign to me, not to abandon the relationship or drop the courting or anything like that, but to try, as im able, to put my mind elsewhere... .the worrying just leads to more worrying. counteracting/fighting my thoughts doesnt help much either, but having a lot going on can help keep me from being over invested, helps me to relax to focus on other things.

Thank you guys for your responses.

Our date is Sunday. We haven’t talked since we set the date and I got her phone number.

What I have planned for Sunday is:

Dinner at this new Japanese restaurant, then either we go get drinks
or I take her to this famous neon sign that’s in the city after we have dinner and talk. The reason for this is because we talked about photography and art when we met. I want her to be like “oh wow he remembered” but I don’t want to overcompensate idk.

I’m not sure if this doing too much way too early? What are your thoughts?

What are you thinking/feeling, Crywolf?  First date in a relationship?  Just having fun? 

i think it sounds pretty romantic and fun!

DAte is tomorrow night. I am soo nervous and excited. Texted her just now for her address.

Cleaned out my car, detailed it. I got a nice haircut and outfits... I haven’t been this excited in a while.

Tonight was a series of events,

missed the exit to her house then my car was acting wierd so I had to pull over and she was undertsnding. then gps went bad and took me to the wrong street.

Picked her up, we got dinner. she told me she just went to that restaurant a few days ago and this other guy brouht her there on a date. She also asked me if I go on dates a lot and i said not really. she said she loves dates and goes often. I felt kinda meh but I didnt show any discomfort. I made a joke about it, and she said "yea i meet a lot of people at parties" ... I also pulled the chair of out for her, and she told me "wow Ive never had anyone do that for me before. the only person who does that for me is my dad, and that was a month ago." I made a light hearted joke and said "something you gotta get used to then"

We talked a lot, then I took her to this neon sign and we walked around the city after that. it was really amazing. she showed me around the city and places I didnt know. We tried finding this coffee place and walked forever, and then it was closed. gps was acting wierd for both of us. so we got coffee from this chain resturant. and walked around more. and saw the city until 1am. She did most of the talking, and i asked questions. I felt kind of bad I wasnt much talkative because I was observant of the city. i told her, sorry if i dont talk much, im enjoying the scenery. we were having a good spontaneous time. We walked through parks, and monuments and the city. then I took her home, and we cruised the way there. We talked, and then we talked about what makes decide if she gives someone a second date. she told me it doesnt usually happen, and I felt some type of way. I got a little anxious. but i acted unbothered.

walked her to to her driveway and she hugged me. then she said something like, "maybe we can see each other again" and I said "yea just let me know" for some reason i thought there would be no second date based off how she goes on dates a lot, and doesnt go on second dates often. Shes only been in 2 relationships.

I was driving home, and then she sent me 2 snapchats. I was suprised... she sent a pic asking if i made it home. I live almost an hour away. then we talked on snap a bit, and then i texted her. she was reffering to this episode of a show being funny but I said "you talking about tonight? I get that a lot :)" reffering to myself being funny. and she said "i was talking about the show, but I laughed a lot tonight too. youre pretty funny"

I feel like she is out of my league based on how many dates she goes on, and guys hit on her.

Thoughts? I would like to pursue this girl but Idk if she likes me or not.

blaming myself for not kissing her last night. she gave me a hug, and went inside. i dont think she was ready for a kiss, and i wonder if i messed up.

This sounds very encouraging!

I don't hear that you messed up at all by not kissing. Men sometimes push too hard too fast (my experience only) for affection, so a man who shows restraint can stand out in a positive way. 

You're being pretty tough on yourself, second guessing. Maybe spend time with friends, also look for other women to date because this lady is obviously special, at the same time it's good to feel like you have options. It's always smart if you're seeing someone who's special, and they are seeing others, to continue to see others and seek out new women/dates you're very attracted to. It helps keep the tendency to get wound up at a dull roar  and you can stay cool when you're with your "favorite."

You sound like you're handling things great though, enjoy!

Crywolf,
I agree with spacecadet that taking things slow and respecting her boundaries can make you stand out in a good way.  As a woman, I would really appreciate a guy who communicated verbally with me about physical contact rather than just attempting it.  Something like "I'd really like to kiss you, but I want to wait until you are ready.  I want to be the first to 'make the move' but if you can give me some kind of signal that you would welcome that kiss, that would be AWESOME!"  I think even hugs would be better handled that way, since it's REALLY hard for me to leave a guy hanging with his arms open to hug me, even when I'm not really wanting a hug from him. 

I also second the vote for keeping your eyes open for other relationship opportunities.  I'm not yet dating, but when I start I'm planning to "date around" for a while so I don't become so invested in any one guy that I'm willing to overlook  red-flag  red-flag.  I've definitely considered saying something similar to what this girl said to you in that regard.  I think that's a good indicator that she doesn't want to get too serious and she may start to back off if she thinks you're going too fast emotionally. 

I definitely sympathize with your plight.  You want to pursue enough to make sure she knows you're seriously intereste but not so much that she's got the restraining order department on speed-dial.  It's a delicate balance that will work best if you can authentically be more balanced in your own feelings.  I suggest scheduling time with other friends and other activities that will leave you less time to be obsessing over this girl.

BG

I was going to ask you how you felt when you were with her on the date and then I reread your post and saw you already jotted some of that down.  (Good job!) |iiii


It sounds like you didn't have a very good time on this date.  And I hear you'd like to pursue.  Do you know why?

I did have a good time, but I felt that she has so many options that Im not sure if she will give me a second one. She said she goes on a lot of dates, and second dates dont usually happen. Idk where that puts me.

Im anxious if she wants to see me again based on what she said. but she did tell me she was having a good time, she was very talkative and I was observant. I hope I didnt come off as boring. She did message me last night and we talked a bit. I dislike texting a lot because it kills attraction.

I dont want to come off as needy and be rejected if I ask for a second date.

She did tell me i was very funny too and i made her laugh a lot. we both have a ton of interests, but I didnt hesitate to disagree with her on things. She does seem like a doormat and agree with a lot of things. She mostly talked about herself and some questions about me. Maybe she was just nervous? I know sometimes people feel they have to talk about themselves to prove their worth or show they are a catch.

I texted her this morning, and asked
"do your feet hurt from last night? I have a bad tendency of walking too fast "
and she replied with " nah. I walk here a lot".

because i was walking pretty fast because im used to a fast pace lifestyle, and she has short legs .
and i had to slow down a few times but i thought she was walking fast so ihad to keep up with her but she was really trying to keep up with me .

im not sure what to respond with.i  want to ask her on a second date but its only the next day. usually people wait a few days and let attraction build. but if shes dating all these guys then idk where i stand. She also told me on the date how her other dates were really wierd and awkward, and I jokingly said "dang I hope you dont feel like that with me" and she said "no you would defintely know! im having fun"

and i told her "yea dont hold back from me, i wanna know if something bothers you or offends you" and she said " i dont get offended easily" and i said "i dont either, but i usually offend people for speaking my mind" and we made a lighthearted bet whoever got offended first would pay next dinner. so throughout the night we joked and i asked her if she got offended yet and she said no .

she also liked showing me her fave songs in the car. idk if this means anything. the whole night i made it about her and getting to know her. i didnt brag or boast about myself. i asked her hobbies and interests, family life. i also remembered a lot and brought back moments from what we talked about during the party i met her at, and talking on snapchat. she felt bad that she didnt remember certain things and apologized.

i did my best to validate and listen to her. i did kind of check out at a point cuz she kept talking .
i dont think shes okay with silence.

red flags I caught: she's a pothead but told me its not a forever thing. she doesnt have much hobbies. she doesnt like having her pic taken, so insecure ? but i asked if i could take a pic of her at this tunnel we went to before security came and kicked us out  and she said okay. our night was very spontaneous. she told me she was high and on coke when she met me and drunk, and apologized if she didnt remember much of the convo.

she told me, how she was supposed to be at her friends bday, and they asked where she was and said she told them she was on a date and i asked her "what are you gonna say if they asked if it was worth it?" and she said "yea dates are always worth it"
and then she said outloud "hm should i lie to them?" and then said "nahh"

green flags: good rs with family, outgoing, communication is good, she seems very caring about people and environment and etc.

Then I'm with BeagleGirland spacecadet!  If you're feeling good, things sound encouraging.


I hear you're sensitive to rejection and can relate to how scary it can feel to put yourself out there.  Is your concern about coming off as needy enough to prevent you asking her out on a second date? 

(If you reject yourself first, where does that leave you?)

anxiety is normal/okay.

you dont want to let it rule your actions or lack of, or wear it on your sleeve around her.

i hear what i interpret as clear interest in a second date. do you want a second date?


how do you feel about this?

Yes I am scared of rejection and getting ghosted again. I need to get over it and accept whatever happens happens.


Yes I am doing my best, and being my best version. I still have smart replies and she seems to like it when I dont always agree with her, or make her feel wrong. I think a lot of guys she dates usually say and do the same things for her. and me being spontaneous, and assertive, as well as not being afraid to be sarcastic maybe its keeping her engaged.

I did go to my car today, and saw she left something on my seat. She texted me right when i was about to text her about it.

Then I said "I guess we have to see each other again"
and she said " i guess so" and we both sent annoyed emojis in a playful manner .
then I playfully said "you know if you wanted to see me again you could have just asked. You didnt have to leave anything behind as an excuse"

then she sent me a snapchat of food after that, a dish she got last night with me and told me how much she liked it. so she is showing interest and her accidentally leaving something behind constituted a second date . Idk luck is on my side with that I hope

As far as her doing drugs, I dont like it. But I am open minded about things, its only if its a consistent basis then I am against it. If its at a party here and there then sure because I do some things here and there but rarely. But she did talk a lot about parties she goes to and loves drinking at parties. She is 21, so maybe its an age thing since im 24. Im just over the getting too messed up phase. I was also upset because I thought we connected so well but she was messed up. So it kind of crushed that fantasy I had in my head.


As far as dating other girls, I don't talk to anyone else really anymore since I dived myself into work. I honestly was going to stop pursuing and solely focus on myself but then I met her last week. I did meet a friend today and play basketball at the gym. which Ive been to busy to do lately.

Crywolf,

I can tend to over analyze things, sometimes to the point of "paralysis by analysis", but I think that can be an asset in the early stages of a relationship if you shift away from "How is she feeling about me?" to "How does she stack up against my criteria/values?"

We all want to be liked and chosen.  We want to BE that special someone.  The problem is that we've BEEN that to our pwBPD, then we weren't, then we were, then we weren't... . I really don't want to have to go through that again.  I know that not all the issues were my dBPDxh's, and I know that even "normal" relationships don't always work out, but I definitely want to stack the deck in my favor by being MUCH more selective about who I pursue relationship with.  I want to hold onto this knowledge that it is better to be stable and "alone" than to be in an unhealthy relationship so that I don't fall for the first guy who shows me interest and hold on for dear life.

It is incredibly intoxicating to feel that someone is attracted to you, and you want to do everything you can to get that next "fix" of that feeling.  I'm dealing with that a bit right now.  The key is to not adjust your behavior or (more importantly) your standards to get that fix.  It's one thing to put your best foot forward, but we all have spent significant time walking on eggshells, and I can see the progression from "best foot" to "eggshells".

You've said a lot about how you think she saw you, but now that you are looking at the red/green flags, I think it's a good time to step back and ask:

-What kind of relationship am I looking for?  Exclusive, serious, potential life partner, or casual, friendship, see where it goes?
-What would be my ideal partner for the relationship I'm looking to have?  What are the qualities I'm looking for?
-What are deal breakers that make someone unsuitable for the kind of relationship I'm looking for?  What red flags don't need anymore exploration?
-What can I live with, but know it's going to take extra caution and work on my part to keep these things from getting out of hand?

So when you meet women and are asking your self if YOU want a second date, take a look at your deal breakers list.  If she has any of them, no matter how great the chemistry was and how much you want her to like you DON'T ask for the second date.  Give yourself the time to find a more suitable relationship partner, or her the time to address (if she can) the deal breaker issue outside of a relationship with you.  :)ON'T accept another "fixer upper".  You deserve better.

My answers to those questions, in case you're curious:

Relationship: Casual, friendship.  See where it goes, but don't want to "date" for another 5 months and would prefer to not be exclusive for another 6-24 months after that (ideally don't want to consider marriage until my S15 is leaving home for college).

Ideals: Intellectually stimulating.  Respects my boundaries.  Has at least two solid long term friendships (more than just "hang out" buddies).  Has clear priorities that he re-evaluates and course corrects to maintain.  Has a great, supportive family that he cares for but is not enmeshed with.  Active.  Loves beagles.  Sings freely, even if not well.  Up for an adventure, but has a comfortable "home base" to return to.  Good looking and has an accent.  :)  I have a whole list of "ideal man" qualities and they get more stringent when I start thinking about life partner level commitment, but you get the idea.

Deal Breakers: Ongoing substance abuse issues with lack of awareness/lack of willingness to seek treatment.  History of abusive behaviors.  Recent criminal record.  Unstable employment.  Cat lover (I'm highly allergic). Lack of respect for women or any other social class/race/creed (we can disagree on political/religions views, but I demand respectful disagreement).  Unstable sense of self.  Unresolved romantic attachments.  I'm sure there are a lot more.

Concessions:  Health issues.  Crazy ex-wife/mom/family.  ":)ifficult" children (to a point, but if he's obviously a push over parent I would add that to the deal breaker category).  Earns less than I do.  :)oesn't like to travel.  Balding.  :)  You get the idea.
 

dude  .


she approached you at the party. shes still talking to you the day after the date. im not telling you to go rushing into something. im telling you these arent the actions of someone who is uninterested and doesnt like you.

so she dates a lot of guys. is that a threat or a gal just playing the field? she approached you. she had a good time with you. she thinks youre funny.

I know...
Youre right. I am being insecure of her dating other guys, and scared I wont amount to the other guys. Its bad.

You guys seem to know what youre saying so I should assume she likes me, and continue doing what Im doing. take it slow i think.

I would like a long term rs with her. she seems positive and genuine, some insecurities but idk.

I think for date 2, maybe go to this lake and have a picnic idk. She is from the city and lives there, but loves nature and scenery.

she hasnt responded back to me yet. :/

I dont usually overthink, but now im over analyzing my last text i said, "you know if you wanted to see me again, you could have just asked. didnt have to leave something behind (smirk emoji)" I hope this didnt make things worse, but i dont think so because its flirting?

its been about 5 hours since i sent it, so maybe I should relax but it is 1am now. so idk. im not going to double text,

she did send me a snapchat pic before I sent my text message and snapchat pic a few hours later. I feel like maybe we both are playing the "texting game" we both sort of send messages same time apart. If i reply, she replies. if i make her wait then she makes me wait. but its hit or miss. sometimes continous then waiting a bit. i do most of making her wait a bit longer. Maybe im overthinking this .

Hi CryWolf,

I’m gonna come in like a mama here, but also someone who started dating at 17…which was like 1,000 years ago…ahahahaha... but…

Okay. So, your date reminded me of one of the worst first dates I ever had. I met a cute guy who worked at a deli, asked him out and then we arranged a meet up. On the way to whatever we were gonna do, he took me on a drug deal. He needed to pick up his drugs on a first date, in front of me. Yep. He needed coke or meth or whatever it was. I went ahead and graciously managed to cut that short, safely bail out. It is one thing to do drugs, I might have understood if been concerned, but to do that on a first date. Nah. That could only go downhill from there I thought!

My first boyfriend was a cool guy. We were actually together a long time and are still friends, but in his late teens he did a bit of meth, weed and drank. I didn’t. I didn’t care so much that he did, I’d known him and had a crush on him since I was about 10, already eyeing him for seven years before we dated, but…I can’t tell ya what a drag it is to date someone who is high a lot of the time.

Don’t get me wrong, he was a cool, fun, great guy in many ways, but if I had to do it over again I would not have dated people with drug issues. It is part of what broke us up eventually. I hated having to sit in while he waited for his drugs, or how anyone who needs their drugs is when they don’t have them. They can be pretty awful, zero patience as you can imagine.

If he had not been doing drugs we might have lasted longer. Good to stop and think about what it looks like months and months from now if you get your heart attached…Do you want to be the guy talking her into not doing drugs? Fighting over her drug use? Wishing she wasn’t high? Just stuff to think about, seriously, while you have the chance.

So, just be wary. I know how it is in your 20’s to be open, non judgmental, free…but if you are really looking for something more than sitting around and talking to someone who has such issues…well, at some point she will have a reckoning with such things. It just happens.

Also, I did not like what I was reading here about her telling you about how many guys she had at her feet. Sure, I got asked out a lot too, but I wouldn’t tell that to you as if to say I am a hot commodity and you are one of dozens. Nah. If she can’t see that you are special and thin the herd then be wary. She is young, you are young, she may want/need this time in her life to date around and that is okay. People need to learn about what they want or don’t want, but they also need to learn how to treat people and I want a gal that treats you like the great guy you are!

I was lucky with my first boyfriend. I kissed him and was very in love and off we went! We actually communicated very well and I felt I could tell him anything and really be myself with him. He stopped doing meth 6 mo’s after we met. Well, he may have done it again at a later point, yes, but that was not long lived - a time or two though it did end in an arrest which was also a huge turn off for me wanting to be with him. I didn’t want to deal with that sort of stuff. It was too stressful.

If you do let this into your life ask yourself why, and be clear about it.

Also, yes, I think, buddy, as I read over this you were worrying a lot and second guessing yourself pretty hard. I know it is passed now, but when she said it was okay to meet at 1 am then that was fine. Period. Don’t worry any more than necessary! Take people at their word and don’t worry so much about pleasing them. If they are not happy that is on them - you just do your best. You are a young guy and dating should be FUN! She is not the only fish in the sea! You were cool at the bar to not be icky like those other guys. Keep being a good guy…What did Steve Perry of Journey teach us? ahhaahah “Some day love will find you! Break those chains that bind you!” hhahaahaha. You rock man! Believe in yourself! :)

take it easy pal!

~pearl.

Picked her up, we got dinner. she told me she just went to that restaurant a few days ago and this other guy brought her there on a date. She also asked me if I go on dates a lot and i said not really. she said she loves dates and goes often. I felt kinda meh but I didnt show any discomfort. I made a joke about it, and she said "yea i meet a lot of people at parties"

Red flags I caught: she's a pothead but told me its not a forever thing.she told me she was high and on coke when she met me and drunk, and apologized if she didnt remember much of the convo.

-----

Cry wolf - Nothing above would make me comfortable personally. I would say, just be you... .but relax now. Get out with some friends, have some other dates and let this one unravel. If she's interested she will get a lot more direct in her positive communication toward you.

For now, all I read is a girl very much enjoying being out there... .

Thank you all,

Idk how I feel. I was so excited.

My last text to her was at 5:40pm yesterday. It is now 11am.
I’m not sure if I should text again, or wait.

Girls are confusing.

She didn’t respond to my snap or text.

I decide to text her a nice pic I took of her. She responds with how it came out amazing. I asked her for her schedule next week.

She sent me her schedule and she asked me if I wanted to go to this place with her. It’s a natural museum of history.

She went from being distant to asking me out.

I was talking to one of my female friends and she said that the girl is going to ghost me and doesn’t want a second date. This is a different girl than I previously mentioned. Either these girls are giving terrible advice or I been lucky.

i dont think this one has been confusing. i think she was waiting for you to ask her. ya just gotta read her. i know that can be harder to do when one is anxious.


flirting has a very limited lifespan when its limited to text. i spent a while trying to connect with a girl in high school. id read into and put stock in our messenger conversations. meanwhile she was calling me to invite me places. waiting for me to do something. i missed it. my experience is that for the most part, courting by text is not very fulfilling to women. they dont put the same stock in it.

so she said the heck with the texts, and pursued. that wouldnt happen in many cases. read her  *)

as far as being anxious goes, id encourage you to explore the advice youve received when it comes to thinking about what you do and do not want in a partner.

Hey CryWolf,

I support this advice you got very strongly! In fact, want to write it out here?

wishing you the best, pearl.

What I want:
caring, compassionate, communication. I want them to listen and show empathy. I want them to be affectionate, put in effort. I want someone who has goals for themselves. I want someone who shows interests in my passions and hobbies and is supportive. she doesn't have to get into my hobbies, but understands and motivates me to accomplish my dreams. As i do the same for her. teamwork. i want to do things she likes, and she does things i like. even if we may not like it, at least we support an other and are trying. I want a solid relationship where both of us bring the best out in one another. new experiences and memories. where we can speak our mind to another without being judged.

What I dont want:
abusive, childish, manipulative, liar, degrading.

Everything I listed was what my BPDex never gave me and I settled for so long and waited for so long for change.

 

yes with the whole drug thing I will keep my eyes open. She is in college and wants to pursue med school, so she does have dreams and goals. Lets just hope she continues it. If the drugs become a problem, I will have to force myself to leave the situation and not be a fixer. it is easier saying this now.

yes i was uncomfortable when she mentioned the other dates. it made me more anxious and like im in a competition now. I just have to be the best option now.

and yeaaaa, I have been second guessing myself and playing multiple possibilities to get the best possible outcome. but so far things have been flowing naturally.

she offered to meet me sunday instead of 1am saturday. i was anxious about asking her. i was scared i wast getting a second date, after people told me i wasnt and she even said "i dont really go on second dates" yet i asked for her schedule, and she told me the days shes free and even asked if i wanted to go to this musuem with her. so thats definitely interest.

the texting and snapchat messages died down, she doesnt text much so i guess we will keep things for meeting in person. I dont want to kill attraction by texting all day and i know texting too much can come off that way. so maybe this is a new approach we both are taking.

I saw her sunday, and then seeing her next tuesday. i want to keep it at one date a week, and give her some time to develop feelings for me and miss me of some sort.

but in reality, i would like to see her sooner .

It sounds like you are working very, very hard to be an attractive date, and to make dating with you a memorable experience, and to be as attuned as possible to her feelings, desires, and reactions.

If you're looking for the JD Power Award in customer satisfaction in dating, you're a contender!

But... .


This is equally about you. I think you should focus less on what she's thinking and feeling and more about your own feelings. You gave a whole lot of details, but not much about chemistry between you, and nice things she did that made you feel good, or conversation that just flowed so naturally that you lost track of the time, or connecting through interests and beliefs... .

I completely believe that you are working hard to "catch" the girl. I'm not sure I believe that you really want to catch her. Make sense?

Actually, we did have a fantastic time. We both share so much in common. That’s why I’m nervous and anxious. We walked and talked and 3-4 hours passed without even noticing it. And then she even messaged me after I dropped her off.

We talked about so many things, like conspiracies, jokes, passions, traveling, what type of house we want. How we both want to make the environment a better place, we just talked and talked. I really like her, and it’s not just because I want to dive into a new relationship.

Yea there are some red flags, and with time I can decide if it’s something I am willing to accept or move on. In the meantime, I’m just confused because she doesn’t text much. Our convos are straight to the point since we first met. We both discussed how we sucked at texting in person, and I guess I have to be okay with it. I feel I have to text and attract her by text or she will forget me but I don’t think that is the case. Texting is something I’m accustomed to.

I sent her a snap today asking if she’s free tomorrow night and she replied with “I’m working :/“ and I said no worries and I’ll see her Tuesday.

No point in dragging a convo. Like Once Removed said, she shows me the signs, she just doesn’t text or flirt over text.

For the next date. We were going to a museum of natural history (her idea), and afterward there is this new cat cafe that is opening up. You pet cats while drinking coffee. We both love coffee and she loves cats. She told me about the one that’s in her city but I’m going to take her to this new one for its grand opening outside her city. Not that far of a drive. And afterward maybe some inexpensive place for food.

She told me she is not high maintenance at all. She stays home most of the time, watches YouTube and loves nature. She doesn’t care about expensive things or lavish things. She loves exploring and learning.

She stays in the city, and knows a lot about the city. On our first date, I showed her some art, and then she showed me around her campus in the city, marble buildings, her favorite archetecture. We have a lot in common. I was mesmerized, she went out her way to show me around. Then there is this tunnel full of graffiti that I have been wanting to go for months. When we left walking, she asked if I ever went, and I said no. Then she directed me there and we drove slowly and saw all the art inside... I wanted to go for soo long. And no one ever wanted to go with me. And she took me on surprise. I felt so happy and amazed. I had no words to tell her.

I think our date must have Been a different experience for her. Her telling me about the other guys, and no second dates threw me off. Made me anxious. But here we are for a second date. And I honestly thought she was forcing herself to see me again because she left something in my car but to my suprise she asked me to go to the museum. So I must be doing something right?

I need to start meditating again, against my anxieties. Stop letting fear and doubt back in. Take everything for what it is. I’m scared of getting ghost for the 4th time. But I need to stop with that fear.

When should I break the touch barrier? I touched her shoulder, back, held her hand to help her cross something our first date. but i feel like i should do more to build tension and attraction. What do you all think? I dont want to be friendzoned, and want to build attraction

That is hard to say. I've had some... .*cough* memorable first dates... .and second, and third, etc.

But I know what chemistry is and isn't for me. And the older you get the more people just cut to the chase a bit, I think. I tend to know EXACTLY, within about three hours of a date, if this is someone I'd kiss or want to sleep with at some point. I just know. (Even at a younger age I knew this.) She may not. She may have factors she is weighing in her head.

If you seem interested, but are showing restraint out of respect and care she will likely pick up on that and not let you drift off into the friend zone. Being funny and sharing interests and having a relaxed good time should get you to that kiss. Honestly, I think basic handholding is the first step that will build within a short space of time to that next step. Once you are holding hands it is easy to pull each other towards each other for long looks and kisses.

But, I would try to read her signals. Has she made an effort to touch you? Does she flirt a lot? Any hair flipping going on?  

take care, pearl.

HEY Pearl, she has done some teasing, showed me art and architecture around the city, I don’t think she would of done that until 1am. She did hair flipping a lot. Not much touching. I did hold her hand for a brief second to help her up a ledge. I think she wanted me to hold it longer. She doesn’t seem the type to flirt, and I gave her two compliments among the night, first one she took, second one she was meh about. She seems insecure and doesn’t like her pics taken. I don’t think she likes her appearance but I’m not sure

 next date I will do more physical contact, and hold her hand and just break that barrier.
She did make plans and invite me somewhere so that has to be interest.

We didn’t talk today. We sent each other one snap in the morning and that was it. I didn’t reply back.

She doesn’t respond to my “caring messages” I sent her a message on snap a few nights ago  about me going home and I said goodnight. She didn’t say it back.

Last night she told me how it raining during the firework show so it was cancelled. I told her “aw no fireworks on your fave holiday? :/“ and no response. But she ends up responding to evertything  else.

I feel that I need to build sexual attraction with her. I know this doesn’t happen through text, and I hate texting all day long. I rather see her in person and it seems that she wants the same.

I think we had good chemistry, we talked a lot and had so much in common. I wasn’t afraid of disagreeing with her and teasing her. Only regret is I wish I touched her more that night.

I was to worried about if she liked me and competing with her other dates. But she did tell me she had fun and I made her laugh. So I need to take it at face value. I haven’t felt so nervous and excited in a while.

One option is to just straight up ask... ."Are you affectionate or are you a bit shy? Or... .?"  I would offer one tip in these early stages. Think about what level of physical contact you would like if she were to become your girlfriend one day and figure out how much she likes. If you have any way to sort this out early you could avoid issues later. (One of you likes public affection, one does not, one likes a lot of hug, one doesn't, etc., etc.)

Are you feeling disappointed she is not engaging by text? Does she seem like someone who could meet your needs? (That is the thing to keep balanced in your mind. Can you meet some of her needs, and can she meet some of yours? Which ones don't you meet for each other and will that be okay.) To be honest I don't think I went on more than a few dates with anyone who I wasn't really serious about... .because a few dates in and you could end up being asked for sex and... .if I knew I didn't want to even get near that question I'd leave well before that. So, at this point assume you are physically attractive to her.  :check: It is really about other things that is making those other decisions about next steps. Do we have stuff in common? Is he kind and friendly? etc., etc.

I like these dates though! Japanese food! Cool.  *) Natural history museum! super  *). Seeing that art in the tunnel! Very  *)

Good stuff!

buena suerte buddy, pearl. :)

Let me give you a tip on this. You can't compete with the other guys. It's not a dating show where you get to see the "competition" and even if it was... . Just be the best you that you can be, offer what you can, don't offer what ya can't. Let yourself be happy, no matter what. No matter what, okay? :)

I tell ya, one of the most attractive things in a guy is self-confidence. I have met guys who are not so tall, and not the most handsome, or not so fit, or all kinds of things, but who were supremely attractive because they were smart or funny or unique or just very confident. Believe me, if she finds another guy who better suits her all the better for you, so don't sweat it. :)

I remember briefly dating a guy who seemed into me, I was less sure, but up for finding out. One day he called and told me he needed to delay our plans because he had to meet his ex in a bar I think... .I may be mixing this all up. But, odd story short here, she wanted to meet him to tell him she marrying someone else. I think she had moved to this area to be with him, but it later fell apart. It kinda wrecked him and our plans that night if I hazily remember. We hadn't been on very many dates, and I think we ended breaking things off, nascent as they were, between us that night too... .and... .I don't even think I let him give me a ride home... .it was all odd... .he wasn't being cool. (And alcohol.  ) Who knows... .

It was nothing about me and likely he just wasn't over her and this is how I found out. But whatever, we could have keep going or not past that, you can get past all kinds of things, but... .I was just ultimately glad I didn't keep dating him. He was okay and all, smart, good-looking, whatever, but... .one odd thing about him. I never saw him in shoes. It was always you know, those adidas slip on type shoes... .hahhahahaaha. So, I dodged a bullet. hahahhaah. I'm just kidding. I tell ya this, this way, so you just see... .dating, it's absurd on some level. Had I really liked him and we dated more... .well I could have politely asked if he was ever gonna put some real shoes  :) on or I could have just accepted him for who he was. (I noticed at his place he had quite a few of such "shoes" but I did not see anything else... .) Einstein might not have been a closed toe shoe guy either.  Who knows, in winter he might have worn shoes. I'll never know.  Just don't sweat it, we simply just don't always click with people. There are mysteries in the universe. Dating included. :)

Man, you are in college! Live it up! If I had one regret from those years it's that I wasn't dating as an undergrad. (I had a serious boyfriend at the time). Date all the people you want.

warmly, pearl.

Thank you Pearl  

Im not sure, why i am bothered that me and her are not texting or snapchatting as much as before.

I told her yesterday, "ill pick you up at 2:30 on tuesday :)"

and she said "ok!"

then later that night i sent her a pic on snap, and she sent me a pic instantly back. I didnt respond. and today I sent her a pic, and she opened it, but did not reply.

it makes me anxious when she doesnt reply. but she seems interested in seeing me, but texting we dont really conversate like we did before the first date. I need to not be bothered by it. And im trying to read into it and read her.

It seems like she is interested in me, but shes busy and im busy maybe. and she rather see me in person? is that the case? I dont know, its been eating at me all day.

When i get replies right away, i get happy. but if she doesnt reply then i wonder and get anxious.

She seems interested, but i play scenarios in maybe shes not based off how we dont talk over text. Im used to texting since childhood. its how you flirt, keep each other interested. this is so new to me.

i was too.

the dating (and social) world is always changing, especially as we get older. growing up, everyone i knew used AIM (aol instant messenger) and i was in fairly constant contact with everyone i knew, especially love interests. AIM died and we all kind of moved to facebook, and now its mostly awkward and intrusive to get a facebook message. its just not how people operate anymore, or at least less and less.

its just about adapting, and that takes some time, and trial and error.

it sounds to me like shes much more interested in the dates themselves, and shes likely not in the same state of anxiety or desire for reassurance. in time i think youll find yourself weaning off of that a bit. at face value, shes interested, and her level of interest is about where it should be. that is reassurance.