BPDFamily.com

Hello everybody,
I am sorry for this long post and please excuse my English. I am sorry if I am not claire in my thoughts. I just need to say it all. I don’t really have who to talk about such personal subject. I told a lot to my sister and friend. But not everything. And they are not able to really understand what it is like and I don’t want to cry on their shoulders every day.
I am married to a man who recently has been diagnosed with BPD. We have been together for 15 years. We have 3 years old daughter and we got married few years ago. Until November we had normal life. Well I guess symptoms where there all the time. Sometimes it was annoying. Stressing about simple things like cooking, or uninterested in what I say… Blaming everyone at work and changing jobs every few years. I followed him everywhere and being not native could hardly make friends or find job. I'm really shy and don't make friends easy. We had good times, watched TV shows, and travelled a bit, made pictures together. We promised from day one we would tell if we meet someone else and we wouldn’t cheat. After 12 years, he finally was ready to have a kid. During pregnancy, he was fantastic (still stressed about cooking and not supporting any critical remark and managing things his own way which was strange to the rest of the world, but I was a queen). While giving birth he was there so supportive. First years was hard - I breast-fed her for 2 years and she wasn’t sleeping more than 3 hours in a row. We were exhausted. I was. He would wake up early before work to be with her so I could get a bit more sleep. When she was 4 month old we moved. To another country. I liked where I lived. I got some professional connections and friends. We lived 200 meters from the sea. But he was really unhappy. I agreed to move. I was so tired I didn't unpack everything for 2 years. Home was always a mess. It felt depressing at times, though apartment was great. I stopped breast-feeding and things slowly was getting better. You don’t recover from not sleeping 2 years in one week, but she was sleeping more and more. We started thinking of moving again. And my husband wanted more sex. And we were getting there but not very fast. If we would have it he would expect more and if you say no, you could feel he is upset. But I was tired, baby next door. I wanted, but simply couldn't. And he was ok. Or so I thought. He was watching porn every day since I know him. But I didn’t think anything bad. So things were getting better. I could finally see colours of life. Then my husband had lot of work to do (deadline of project) and my family had few problems so my girl and I went to stay at my folks in other country. Our journey was prolonged by my husband’s wishes. We were ill and he had still lot of work. He looked tired. I was crying. I wanted my cosy Christmas with my little family. I was too tired for big fat Christmas with tones of cooking at home. And I can't explain but I was really wanting to go home. Cried all night. Next day felt broken. Had bad dream that told my husband about. We carried on. Felt distant from my husband. We never did well on distance conversations. He is not good on chatting.
Sorry for long introduction. I m getting to the point.
On January he still looked tired with tones of work but he wanted us back. He picked us up in airport and once we entered apartment with baby next to us, he told he was bi. He was sorry not to tell before. He was hiding it from himself. He never cheated on me. But he met a guy and wants to sleep with him. Also he wanted kill himself on Christmas, and was on his way to do it, but my dream safe him. He didn’t want me to think I dreamt this would happen. So there we were. He said I could leave. We talked a lot. He said he’d like to seek relations with man that we would chose, would be checked and so on. But only if I am comfortable. If not, he won’t do anything. Our sex life became better, more often more different things we were trying. I was feeling wanted. He was more attentive to my needs, which was never the case before. But the need to sleep with man was there. And he started seeing specialist. Who diagnosed him with BPD and tones of others things. I read a brochure, but I didn’t realise how serious it was. I was still insensitive to his symptoms; I was always emotional and still I would say if he was doing something wrong in my view. He would bring sleeping with man again and again. I was not ready. We moved to this little village. I dint want any more to move. But he said it would be good for us. New start. And its good environment for kid. But I have 0 chance to work here and I’m scared of driving. We had our families visiting us. And at times it seemed normal life, at times emotional hell. I felt his distance and hostility sometimes. To that I respond with hostility. Especially if he were inpatient with baby. He talked about killing himself once. He talked to his doctors. Got time off from work. Sex obsession was stronger. He didn’t care if I was ill, tired or baby just somewhere around. If you flirt a bit, he takes his pants down. Does not get kind hints it’s not the time. His face changes, like is transformed. But he was not thinking sex is the problem. He thought it’s a problem to me. His new medics made it hard to cum. Once he spent few hours trying to come. It was scary. Nevertheless, we managed to have nice evenings with good sex until one month ago.
Few weeks ago, he was down again. Saying he is missing his bf from 15 years ago. But he killed himself long time ago. He can’t help it. He tried to have sex with me, but didn’t finish. And I was eager all weekend. With no response. Then he said he is going to hospital. Too big risk of suicide. I was scared but he was getting help. And I had some time off from emotional drama. We had planned a trip to Paris, and he still wanted to stick with it, as for him it was stuff for work. Doctors agreed to let him out if he comes back to hospital. Hospital was 2 hours away but I was planning to see him on weekend. He started insist on us coming on Wednesday even though it was 6 means of transportation (4 trains 2 busses) in one day. A bit much for 3 years old especially if we go to Paris in 2 days.
Then he said it. That he had sex with female patient in there... Less than a week in hospital... As I was reading much more about BPD I was starting to realise that I was not helping him. Not understanding how he felt.  So I was hurt but I understood the impulse better. What confused me most was that it was female. After all this 6 months talking how he needs man, saying its not the same as sex with a girl... .We went to Paris, had some nice time there, tried to have sex. He didn’t finish. Said he didn’t really feel like. Last evening in Paris he said we should divorce, he wanted to sleep with other people he didn’t want to fight this urge. I cried. Tried to reason him. In the morning cried more. I couldn’t anymore. All was too real. Still I said to him that he wouldn’t lose us. I wouldn’t hate him. At home, he went directly to the doctor. I asked to see his doctor to know more about his condition. I see it’s getting worst. His medics changes him. And I want to know what to expect, how to handle it. Doctor refuses to see me. That evening, looking in my eyes, he said he is going to look for other people. I broke. Cried aloud with pain in heart and even hitting the floor with my fist. Once calm, I’m more open minded. I read more. It calms me down knowing he is not well but can get better. He was calm, so I tried to talk. I don’t think I can be in open relationship. I need full investment. I can't keep caring, washing his clothes, hug him when I know he goes to other people. Doesn’t matter that he says he loves me ant he needs just pure sex from others. He is not against seeing sexologist, or support group with me. He is more defensive about setting rules in our lives so we avoid crises, mood swings. He started smoking and eating ice-cream. But he doesn’t have any other help plan. I’m not sure he thinks he needs one.
Then he texted me that he is avoiding conversation coz he is afraid to lose everything. I said he wouldn’t lose me as long as I see the effort to get better. He said that he should be faithful. He is married to me. However, it sounded more that he was convincing himself than me. He loves our daughter. When in right mind he is great father. She adores him.
Last night he wanted to have sex with me. For me it was great. We did thing I was not comfortable before. I enjoyed. He didn't. He didn't finish.

So I need help. He doesn’t want more anymore sex with. He wants to want with me but he wants it with rest of the world. However, he wants to raise kid together, to live with me. He says he loves me. He is at his doctor now.  I don’t know what’s next. Isn't there any other way but letting him have sex with others? How do you stay family like this? Or is it just him not wanting to get better?
 It has all changed so fast and keeps changing that I have hard time to catch up and adjust. Deep down I still want to believe it all will go back to as it was. All I want is stable home, with family traditions, loughs and barbeques, travels, hugs and kisses, pets, without him being all the time in his phone.
 But I see he suffers. Would letting him go help him?

So sorry you are hurting.  You are in the right place.  Caring people here.  All of this sounds like its very serious symptoms of BPD.  There is treatment.
Keep posting.  People with this experience you are having will chime in.
My person w BPD also had a very bad time finishing when we had sex.  It would take 45 minutes, i couldnt last that long, and still he wouldnt finish... .he was into porn too.  We are separated for 15 months now, we lived together ten years. Nvr married.  He is afraid of any commitment... .we have been on and off, off now for 8 months.  He is dating someone 24 yrs younger than him.  What i finally saw was all of the selfishness he has. 

Above all, be good to yourself. Do kind things for yourself... .there is help here.

j

Thank you for your kind words. I guess if there were no kid I wouldn't have been that strong. Hardest thing is that I want to help but I have no information about what is going on. I don't even know what therapy he is on and if his doctor is qualified to provide best care for BPD. It is hard not to take it personally when faced with infidelity. I get that when he feels this way he can't help. All I ask is to try to avoid getting this way. Although I understand these urges its part of BPD, for me it still feels like he wants convenience of wife (washing dirty clothes, shoulder to cry on, play with kid when in good mood) while putting his dick wherever it sticks. I know it is not like that for him. But it is for me. Choosing sex over family. It is clearly not healthy. He is very open with me. Tells me everything, as much as he can. And he suffers. He is egoistic, but he is also caring. Just for my birthday, he got me computer and camera with different lenses... .5 days after he got payed in his account was 75 cents. That doesn't help with stable environment. I'd like to discuss money managing rules, little everyday things, communication rules, plan daily activities so they don’t stress him. But I think he is not ready to do that or maybe it is too late.
It is hard to end relationship when it last that long. Especially when we don’t hate the person.

Hi desperate.wife,

It is no problem, your story is possible to follow. You are a skilled writer in your non-native language!

I would say you have multiple issues going on here. First, let's talk about his sexuality. He has come out to you as bi. He sometimes wants to sleep with men, maybe sometimes other women too. He wants to sleep with you at times as well. You, on the other hand, do not want an open relationship. This is not in alignment with your values or your vision of what family can/should be.

Next, you are a kind and loving person. Your natural instinct is to be supportive of him, treat this like a health issue, and get some help. One big problem here though, that I see, is you are trying to "get things back" to a place they can't get back to. There is only forward, there is no going back in life.

Have you seen a counselor just for yourself to make sense of all this? And get clear in your head?

This is pretty complicated. I live overseas in a foreign country with a man from a different culture. There are many challenges. Just having a baby, and all the moves and job changes you have dealt with is a whole lot to go through! All of that is very hard.

He may be wanting more sex because of the BPD, yes, promiscuity can be an issue, but it could also just be that he his sexuality was repressed - it is actually both issues in his case it seems. He may be able to stop having sex with other people too, sure. He may even change his mind on being bi, or pick females over males for his monogamous relationship partner, if he chooses monogamy. I have a male friend who slept with a few men to try it out and then settled back into being more interested in women and married one. I don't know if he would identify as bi now, or if he wanted that label on his sexuality. He may have some interest in terms of fantasizing, but not want to build a whole life around that desire. I don't think he'd claim that he is bi, but I also have friends that are and do claim that label for their sexuality. But the question here is: Do you have to have a straight husband or is a bi or bi curious husband an option? (and if so the latter does he satisfy this through fantasy or actual partners?)

Sexuality can be fluid, and society pressures many to feel they have to hide it. But what is definitely clear is that you want a monogamous husband. And if he is not monogamous you have to decide... .Do you want a married life with him? Yes or no? And if yes, what does that look like exactly?

Once you decide on that you deal with those two options. If not, you don't want to be married, you work on the best divorce for yourself and your child as possible so the dad can still be involved and you and the child are taken care of and can move on. (Or maybe you need to stay legally married for some reason even if not a committed couple?) If you want to work it out with him, that requires his consent. Does he want to work it out with you? And if he does, what compromises and concessions is he willing to make, if any, to give you what you want in a life together? What compromises and concessions can you give him so you are also able to be happy with this arrangement? And be careful, do not give up anything that leaves you miserable in life. You being miserable is not good for your child or you, okay?

Sounds to me like he may want you to be at home with the child and him to be with you and others when he feels like. Does that sound correct? And if so, how do you feel about this? Are you willing to bend on this or do you want something else for your life?

These are hard decisions. We all have to figure out what we can and cannot put up with - what is acceptable or unacceptable. What do you want?

There is danger in expecting him to change. I'd ask him to directly tell me what he could and could not do - what he can and cannot offer and go from there. This is the time for practical decision making in my book. The more clear headed you are the better off you will be. What works, what doesn't, go from there.

I am so sorry you are faced with this. We are not here to ever tell you to stay or go. It is your choice completely! But that is an empowering thing. You get to decide what is right or wrong for your life. Not him. Your choices.

What do you want?

with deep compassion, pearl.

You are confused about what to do as your husband has changed his ways so many times, including sexual habits and preferences, that you don't know where to turn. You are wondering if it would help him if you divorced. On this site, we do not give advice about staying or leaving, as you are the only one who knows what is best for you, and whatever you decide there will be a lot of pain and hurt involved. I think a good goal might be to try to work on figuring out what you want while helping him get the best treatment possible if he is open to that. You are concerned about his sexuality and rightfully so. In addition to his treatment for BPD, he might benefit from working with a specialist in out of control sexual behaviors for men. You might google: Doug Braun Harvey, Michael Vigorito, who are both experts in this area and have written many articles and some books. Do take care, and let us know how you are doing. You have lots going on, and things will get better as long as you are courageously facing your challenges like you are doing now.

Thank you all. I didn’t write in English since school, so I’m really happy you could follow my thoughts.
And thank you zachira for the suggested readings, I will look into it. Things are changing every week. When I start being ok with one, another comes out, and I dont know if there's end to that.

I reread again pearlsw reply and i'll read again tomorrow. It is everything I think, but in a clear way. Thank you so much. It really feels good to be listened. Zachira, pearl your all sums up are so accurate! Juju2 thank you for sharing. It is really too much 45 minutes. In my case he used to be quick, just his medications now has this effect on him. But no matter long or quick that’s not the way I get my pleasure. Although I do enjoy it with good lubrication. And really want to avoid on and off relation.

Yesterday, after reading your responses, your valid points, I just closed my computer and all I wanted was to watch Hugh Grants’ romantic comedy or smth silly like that, it was just overwhelming. I need time to process my thoughts. I couldn’t watch anything. My little one got ill, and didn’t sleep well.

I’d like to tell a bit about her relation with dad. She has very strong connection with him. She would cry when he leaves, would keep saying don’t leave, I love you. Each time she starts behaving like this (last two times, lasts a weak or so), he ends up saying he wants to kill himself. She feels him better than I do. I see things are not right but not that they are bad. He can hide from me, but not from her. When all this started, he asked her if family was important. She said, yes. He asked why. She answered: family is important so we wouldn’t get lost. Two and half years old! Knows better than us. Each time she tries to make us kiss, hug all 3 of us, and would calm us down if hears our voices raised. Just last night she cried and started calling him, and wouldn’t calm down till he came (that’s big thing: under pills it is really hard to wake him up). And she kept checking if we both are next to her. And yesterday when he left to see doctor she was worried again.

All this doesn’t make it easy to leave nor for me nor for him. She is our rock. We know she needs happy stable family.

Do I want to leave? I won’t lie, this questions were few times in my head over all these years. After all his odd behaviour was present all the time. At times, especially lately it was like living with teenager. Reading about BPD, it’s like reading about him. But he has good and generous heart. And expresses his feeling how he can, buying big presents.

Yesterday he came back from doctor calm. His medication got adjusted again. He had new one prescribed in hospital and couldn’t wake up in the mornings. Or all half day. On Saturday he woke to go to sports, went there and slept in the car…He says we should wait and see how this would affect our sex life. Because these medics helps him with anxiety but messes up everything else.

His doctor also said he has underdeveloped superego (I hope I use the right term, as he said in another language). The part that is responsible for not going out naked outside. It makes sense. He doesn’t go naked but he would walk with his shoes like sandals damaging them and looking ridiculous but wouldn’t listen to a reason. Can go with winter shoes in the middle of winter. Took me long time till he learned to close toilets doors, or he had started once at my sisters to zip his pants only when he was out of toilets. Anything you say makes him angry. But in the end he adjusts his behaviour. I asked what he could do about it. His doctor said there’s lot of work to do. And my husband said they always says that there’s work to do, but they never say what exactly. So it is not only me that thinks smth is missing in his therapy. But maybe doctors knows better.
He also talked to his doctor about my wish to seek support group for BPD and sex therapist, but doctor doesn’t think it is a good idea. He says it wouldn’t help as long as he doesn’t know what he wants in future. It is true. He has to figure this out. As well as I do, but support group is not about romantic relationship. No matter if we stay together or not he is father of our girl and we will always be involved. And we need to be educated about this condition. I don’t see harm in this. And sex therapist could help him too, regardless if are couple or not. But baby steps.

Yesterday he went outside twice for few hours. He needs space. I understand it. Yesterday he talked about getting cat, us going to us in few years, getting tattoo in my country while on holidays in one month. It is nice but I couldn’t be happy hearing that. His opinion changes too often. One day we are his whole world, next day…

Splitting up would be complicated. Option one is I go back to my country. He would fly every month to see her. How long would that last? But she would have grandparents that adores her. Aunt and two cousins one of which is about the same age as her.  Option two – we move in two smaller apartments. And I try to build my single life here. Option three – we live like roommates. Option four – we work out our problems and stay family. Honestly, I don’t know yet.

I don’t have therapist. I would like to. I have other things to deal with too to improve my life, but now it is complicated. There is no therapist in the village, and public transportation is complicated, my husband would stay with her happily, but his crises comes one after another and it is hard to plan anything. Besides, it wouldn’t be in my language. I take my long hot baths to sweat away the stress, take pictures to relax (when I can), do my thinking while cleaning kitchen. I know I shouldn’t hold on past, but how do you know that what happened the last 6 months is more real than what we‘ve experienced last 15 years? How do I know his sexuality problems and BPD is two different issues and I shouldn’t see as whole? And if he has his ways would BPD symptoms be less present?

He woke after 11 and looked really of. I don’t know if it is because of lack of sleep, or because he is down again. He said that was hell of the night, and my instinct is to say: well we had worse, and anyway you were sleeping, not in your bed, but your were, while I was up half night comforting her, snoozing half sitting, cleaning her nose, getting up for medics, trying to give it to her, cleaning sticky syrup from sofa, floor, hands…But I didn’t say all that, just said yea it was hard. He asked how it was when he left to bed. He is trying.

He says kid is most important and he has to do what is good for her. He just need time. He would prefer open marriage, but he needs to do the right thing. He tries to reason himself. I asked if he felt trapped. He said yes. I tried to talk about how open marriage would work. I don’t see having sex with him if he does it with others, and he is ok with it. Hurts. I need sex. With him. And now he wants only with females. I think I would be more ok if it were men. He still says he loves me. What is love? He doesn’t want details. But how I can choose this option without knowing the details. Stuck.
He was putting dishes in dishwasher. And he saw I was looking. He got angry defensive that I watch if he does it right. But how can I not? No matter how many times you tell that dishes has to be empty, he still puts plates and pans with rest of food. How many times you can tell to empty pockets before putting clothes to the washer, I still pick up papers, coins, screws ,trash and even Nutella little packs from washer…well it is like that last 6 months. Before it was not that severe. Before he was not eating ice cream on the toilet and leaving empty papers next to it.
Our daughter kept asking why dad makes mom cry and made us hug and hug and kept saying don’t go dad I love you. 3 years old.
I owe to her to try.


PS: I watched As good as it gets

Yesterday I fell asleep perfectly calm. Woke up with clear head. Funny thing now it is him asking to try to stay together!
I asked him questions. To sum up:
He gets that sex for me is attached to feelings. For him not.
He enjoyed sex with the other woman. No feelings.
Why he doesn’t want sex with men anymore?
“Because I am still very attached to the last (dead) man I had sex with. Before meeting you.“

So what I grab from this :

He still has feelings for a dead man and therefore wouldn’t have sex with others. He says he loves me but would sleep with others and enjoy it.

I see a conflict there in logic. And I don’t see my place in this. His heart is with another man and body with other women. He clearly has lot of going on in his head. And it is up for him to figure it out. I care for him, and I won’t leave just yet. I’m thinking to give a shot for open marriage on trial basis. Give him time to deal with his mess and to give me time pull myself together. Coz now I know I can’t do anything about it. I can stop fighting for his feelings. And concentrate on other things. I am just preparing plan B. Will support him, coz I really don’t hate him. Besides he really thinks we can have good family life, and he would be less on his phone and would work on his BPD therapy to improve quality of life. I don’t expect it to be easy.

So he didn’t sleep all night, coz he forgot his medics and was scared I am leaving. In the morning, he was supper nice to our girl and seemed pretty relaxed making cheese cake. He asked if I am leaving. I felt like hugging him. I woke up knowing it is over but really wanting to be nice to him. I was eager to say I understand his feelings, I‘ll stay in the open marriage for now, coz I know now what to expect or not to expect. He got all moody saying it is 8 am and he is not going through all that again like yesterday. So I don’t want to be nice to him and hug him.

He also said he is afraid for our daughter because she is perfectly happy. He doesn’t want to screw her up. I say she is happy but stressed about us and it is not healthy.
I know she needs dad. But I also know how happy she is with my family and how much she misses them. And that she would be fine there.

In this thread, the thing that jumped out at me the most was pearlsw's advice to live a life that was aligned with your values.  To think about the things that are truly important to you in life, and make sure they come first.

Thinking about things this way, would trying an open marriage agree with your values?

Two things that jumped out at me about your posts are that your emotional and physical needs are not being met, and your child does not have stability. 

You don't seem confident that your husband is getting adequate care.  You are right that a support group for you would be good, but the doctor is right that unless your husband wants to change, a support group for him wouldn't help.  When your doctor talks about superego, he is using rather old-fashioned language.  You said you live in a small village.  Could it be possible to find a therapist or psychologist who has experience treating BPD?

WW

It's hard to know what I really want, I am so tired, besides it's hard to digest the sudden change. I want family, and normal family was always lacking i guess, from time I'd get feeling I’ll never have normal life due to his odds reactions to everyday social situations. But we had other nice things. And open marriage was not really an option for me till yesterday. I see now full picture and I can stop trying to concentrate on feelings. He offered divorce maybe 5 times already in last 6 months. Each time was when he had urges to sleep with other people. It took me unguarded and I said no, we can work it out. Each time he felt relaxed for some time and would try to be nice to me. Yesterday he realised that I have a say too, and it might be my decision to leave. He got scared. I saw message to someone I don't know saying I'm making my mind for divorce. Answer was smth like damn, too bad, get some rest. But I am afraid he is not telling them all story. So now, he wants to try. He is telling me he s gain wait and no one will want him anyway. And he goes to do sports to lose weight. His female bi colleague had sex with two coaches there. Well he knows how it would make me feel and he still wants to do it. But he wants to live with me. He promises we would be happy doing normal things: zoo's, trips, walks, he would be involved and would take care of us. As divorce is big change maybe open marriage would be phase of adaptation. I don't want to do anything that would make him feel abandoned, unloved. I want to let things gently. That’s my style, I never listened books that told leave kid to cry so he learns to sleep alone. It was tiresome but I did it my way. And I am happy. She is very independent and confident baby. Maybe I am wrong this time.

About the therapist, there’s one English speaking 30 minutes away. It would be hard to get there for me, but I’m considering, as she does skype sessions too. Don’t know if she is experienced in BPD. But the only way I can go if my husband stays with our girl. And while he is willing and used to do that, lately I don’t really trust him to stay alone with her. First, because of his pills that makes him sleepy and really disorientated sometimes, and another thing…well... Today finally in few weeks I got time to be alone, I took my camera to go out but spent some time reassuring my girl that I’ll be back soon. Once she was ok to let me go I went to bedroom to say I was leaving, I found him with porn and dick in his hand. So I said I’ll wait till he is done. He was really surprised: why? But I can't let my girl alone while he is doing that, can I? So I waited, and it didn’t took that long for him to finish. 10-15 minutes. And he was pretty loud to cum. I told it is not ok, he needs help. He said ok, I left.
Other than that, today he cooked nice healthy meal for me and our girl would get better, and he is trying to find things we would both be interested. He made me watch chess video. Its funny, but I really don’t follow the moves. My mind was never for technical details. I just can’t follow it and now I’m emotionally tired. I just stared at the screen. Now he wants us to sign up for Photoshop class. I don’t want Photoshop. I don’t get those layers. I just want to shoot my pictures. The point is, he is trying to find ways. Now he is back from sports, but he is in his car eating, because he is not ready to come back.

My way of dealing with things is talking about everything. But how do you talk with someone having BPD? If I bring the questions over skype, he answer some, but if you try to discuss it further he says I am torturing him, he feels like ___, horrible. But how you figure out things without talking?

Once again, I intended short post…I can’t help myself when I start typing.

Hi desperate.wife,

I expect there will continue to be a lot of twists and turns to your story as you make your way on this journey.

So having an open marriage for you means you will look the other way while he is sleeping with other people, probably women, because you want to maintain some stability for your daughter and give her closeness with her father by staying under the same roof?

It is a big choice to make. Have you started to think through all the practical and emotional aspects of this? Is this something you might be willing to try for a set amount of time before making a bigger commitment to it?

Are you being flexible? Or are you breaking from your values here in a way that could damage you in some way you do not yet grasp? Just something to consider. It is your call and there are reasons for doing this or not, but... .is he stable enough to handle this kind of thing?

And please dear, keep mindful of sexually transmitted diseases. They are not always visible and could pose serious risks to you. Make a policy on this and stick to it without exception. Given what has been going on you should get yourself tested as it is. I don't think you can necessarily trust his representations of what is going on for him sexually. He is struggling himself and not certain on this. But you have to be.

take care, pearl.

Hello pearl,
Thank you for taking time to reply.
I am well aware of the diseases…It is him that brings the topic first. He says it would always be protected sex. Ideally, with one partner, and both would constantly get checked. And the one time he had sex, he said it was protected, I still had a dream he came back with herpes on his lip. So if we were to do this open marriage thing, between us all intimacy would be over. He would sleep in other bed. He is ok with that. It hurts. I still want to feel his warm touch, to hug, to give kisses. When he is calm and bright, which is less of the case these days. I think open marriage would be just for the 3-6 month. To be sure, he is ok and making decisions in his clear mind. And same for me. I want to feel stable to make decision like divorce. But if it is really going to be open marriage I think it would end up with divorce. I surprised myself with being ok with his first slip. I don’t know what else I can be ok with. But on other hand I think trust was broken. And not because of his infidelity, but the way he see things. Being ok to live with me without intimacy. He says he can still do things to satisfy my needs. But there’s toys for that. I need connection with a person. Full connection.
Yesterday before falling asleep, he said he wouldn’t kill himself. He said he has weighted his words and knows what he is saying. Then he said: I love you, you know? Sounded sincere and calm. I shook my head smiling. You don’t know, he said, but for me it is like that, I care about you. To which I answered, I know you care about me, but that doesn’t mean you love me. Not in the way I need.

Please be honest about the way you really feel about me, I asked. He fell asleep. Still sleeps, I should wake him up, he wants to go to sports at lunch. But he also needs the rest. Tired mind doesn’t get better.
I’m still trying to figure out what I want and how I feel. I am so easily influenced by his moods. I think I should make condition for open marriage. That he gets help about sex needs from professional. I  want him to be able to control his urges and to understand what’s appropriate what’s not. I can’t worry that if I leave him with our daughter he will go watch porn in other room.  I don’t know how to bring it to him without upsetting him.

He just woke up. Down. He had a dream I left and he became crazy, being able to go to shops only at certain hours and stuff like that, speaking to father in English, and the name of next royal baby…

Hi desperate.wife,

Do you think he'll want to talk over these sex issues with a therapist? Will he follow through with this? Does he feel anything is amiss? ("off" or an issue)

Oh yes, this is all so much. It will take you time to make clear decisions. We're here!

take care, pearl.

Hi desperate wife

I'm sorry you are in such a horrible situation. It must be very hard living like this, constantly moving around, and being apart from your family and support.

I hope you take the time to re-read the excellent advice pearls and WW have given on this thread.

I would think very carefully before agreeing to an open marriage. It could add a whole new level of dysfunction to your relationship and an even bigger mess to deal with.


Ideally with one partner? And if he developed feelings for that partner? With his BPD he could idealise her (or him?), love bomb, push you aside, bring their relationship problems into your marriage... .who knows where this would lead.


If you think it would end in divorce, why put yourself through that madness and hurt?

You need to think about what YOU want for your life and what aligns with your values, not his. Do you really want to let your life be controlled by the whims of a mentally ill person? Or do you want to control your life and set a healthy example for your child? At the moment, your daughter is only 3 years old and all this hasn't impacted her much yet but in another couple of years, it will.

I’ve been avoiding my thread a bit. It has been few calm days. I didn’t want to read all the valid point you are making, to start thinking again.
 I pushed for conversation when we both were steady enough. I told I was willing to do this open marriage thing if it is the only way he can heal, but made clear it is not ok for me, I am not ready.
He speaks about general idea, and I need details. He doesn't want to talk about it. He says, right now he is not attracted to me. It might be medics. He doesn't know how he would feel about it in future.
I pointed out that he enjoyed sex with another women.
He answered he was not on that medic then. To which I said that he wasn’t on it two nights before he got in hospital, and already didn’t enjoy it with me.
It is clearly psychological. Maybe he is blocking me so it would be easier to justify the need of others. Anyhow. I said that divorce is ok. We can’t feel bad all the time. And if we need different things, we can just go different ways. After some silence, he said he wants family, he would get therapy for sex behaviours, maybe medications to reduce his needs, that he needs time to get well and that meanwhile he wouldn't do anything outside the family. If during that time one of us feels not good, we talk, if we can change it, we do, if no - we divorce. All the right things he said. Like sane responsible man. His voice was heavy. After, he left for few hours outside. In the middle of the night. In the morning, I was completely relaxed. He asked if I was happy. I said considering the situation, I am ok. He said he was not feeling good. I reminded him we can still end it all, I wouldn't think less of him, and our daughter wouldn't hate him.

We continued our day taking it easy. Having meals, cleaning around, playing with kid, going for a walk. He spent time in bed, coz he got his back blocked. 

It was relaxing day except for one thing: he couldn't pay in the shop with his card. Again, one week after getting payed, we have no money. Makes me angry. I asked how much we can afford this month. He gave me numbers, said we should have enough this month for everyday needs. And for few days in the shops he was spending, not being crazy, but not most economical shopping. Like we were used already. But now some adjustments has to be made. We haven’t even payed the rent this month... .He feels bad. And promised to let me do the shopping only. And give me all the cards. I do have some savings that would allow paying this month rent (in this country, in other it wold be 3 months’ rent... .), but I also feel I need my backup money just in case. I wouldn't hesitate for second if things were normal.

But now… On other hand, we need to pay the rent. He asked for advanced payment from his work. They won’t be happy. He is being away from work a lot lately.

So things are not perfect but I am calm. And trying to stay that way. Yesterday he offerd to tickle me, which makes me completely relaxed and well,mmm. But it is completely not sexual thing. Well he offered. I agreed. Felt nice, but he stopped. Said it was too soon. Clearly he has bigger issues with being with me. It was pretty innocent thing and he couldn’t go through. But I stayed calm. Didn’t get upset. I like when I react like that.

That course on meditation looks interesting. Reading other people’s experiences in it makes me want to commit to it. I want to happy and relaxed every day!

Hi SunandMoon,

Everything you wrote here is so truth. Thank you, it helps to get realistic :)


I know. I'm already not comfortable with his colleague that is bi and sexually free and shares hers stories with him. I feel like she makes him want these things more.  He says she is a friend that understands him. And texts with her a lot. And texts about mine reactions and she tells what I am feeling for him... .At some point it is nice she is trying to explain him, but she can't know why I do one thing or another and she is not psychologist. I ended up asking him to stop telling what she is writing and stop mentioning her name. Which actually drives me crazy, as he is still texting with her and I'm dying to know what about. :)
So yes, having one partner would be complicated. I would wander. And what if she (if it is she) gets pregnant? I always considered this only from safety side, one is less risk than many. Thank you for bringing all these questions to me. Made me easier to tell him I am still not ok about all this.


I feel the same, that she would be ok now for the separation. But on the other hand, things started to be bad just 6 month ago. It is all new for both of us. These things takes time. I am not even sure how much he is ill and how much he is confused about what he is. It is a mix. His confusion is bringing out all the symptoms in worst way. And he is depressed. And he wants help. As long as it is like that, I want to try. But it is hard to forget that just one week ago he looked in my eyes and said those things. And  then he didn’t want help. He even forgot about it.

Meanwhile, I do everything to make sure she has as stable environment as possible. I want her to be independent, confident and creative. I play with her each time she asks (when possible), we read books together, she loves play with play doh, and paint, duplo. With that, she can spend hours. She invents games and can imagine that peace of plastic is a doctor. Today she removed soft colourful ball decoration from a blanket saying it's Pyjamasques - her heroes. She can play with the sugar bags in restaurant, gives them roles. Who need toys? In the shop, I want to buy more toys than she does. She choses one and sticks with it.  I made her befriend a neighbour kid, as she needed friends. We talk to family daily, we go for a walks and I am always available for hugs. Before falling asleep, we talk about the day. If I forget to do it, she would remind me :) On good times, she plays with dad. He teaches her chess. They would go to play football or to the zoo. We also try to spend time all three together. She needs us 3. I always respond to her feelings. If she is angry, I say it is ok to be angry, I understand it, but it is like that, and we have to accept it, it won’t change. If she is sad, we talk about it. Sometimes before falling asleep she would reflect on hers feeling, would ask me why was she angry, why friend was angry, why he said that, why she did that. We talk about all that. And I keep telling her how much I love her. And that dad loves her. And we will always will, no matter what. And that sometimes parents are tired and irritated, but she will always have us and everything will be fine.

But when we go to see my family, she is happy too. She has grandparents, aunt and cousins. She is super happy there. So if one more time i need to go through all the drama, or if one more time he offer the divorce, I might just say ok.

All of your updates are helping us to get to know you better, thanks.  I'm impressed with how you are working your way through a very difficult situation.  You are focusing on your own reactions and not driving yourself crazy trying to control him.  This is wise, but not easy!  pearlsw and SunandMoon are giving you excellent advice.  You talked in a couple of places about what he needs and how he might work through his problems rationally.  That would be wonderful if he does, but it's very possible he will continue to just do what he does, without taking responsibility for growing, which is why we're all encouraging you to make your own plans.  Even just in the last few days, I can see how your thinking is evolving.  You really are doing an amazing job in a tough circumstance. 

You said that an open marriage might be a pathway to a divorce 6 months from now.  Have you said this clearly to him?  If you are not sure about it, it might make sense to ask for more time to think about the open marriage idea.  If he sees open marriage as something he can play with, and have no consequences, he might look at it one way.  If he sees it as a path to losing you, he might look at it a different way.  The important thing is to take the time to figure out where your values will take you, and once you do that, clear communication can be good.  Then you must follow through with actions that align with your values, which sometimes involves very difficult choices.

WW

Thank you, WW. All your insightful observations helps me to organise my thoughts. It is better than just writing a diary. Thank you very much for your time  .



I don't want to control him. But I expect him to do things on his own, and when it is not happening, I am disappointed. I get my expectations when he is better hoping it is true. I need to free myself from this path I keep taking. Lower my expectations, organise my days as I can at the moment. To be with my daughter, finish unpacking, taking my pictures, reading and not concentrating on things I can't do, or haven't achieved yet. It is hard for me sometimes to do that.


I know... .I am not sure if he has what it takes to work with himself. There so much things he needs to improve. And he never did anything constructive to change what he didn't like. He just found out that all he considered real ant true was his condition. That all he thought he was, was just illness. Plus the sexuality thing that surfed out. It is not easy. And it is nice to see him acknowledging things. I don't know how he will manage it. So yes, I do need my plans. I can always go home. But just idea to stay with my parents. Brrrr. They are the best and everything, but living abroad for so long I don’t do everything the same, and anything longer than 2 weeks with them under one roof is a challenge. My mom makes dramas where’s there’s no and now she is worried sick about me, but I get tensed even when she ask how we are. I'd rather chat about the weather. No need additional drama now.  I checked how much he would have to pay for child's care. It would be enough to live comfortably in my country. It would be a start. So I feel assured I have an option. That is if he doesn't kill himself after we leave.



Thank you, writing here helps a lot. I am happy I found this place! It helps both: letting things out and reflect on them.
I was talking to my friend and it was great at the beginning, but then how much you can complain? She has stuff going too, and you need to talk about some nice things too. Besides I felt I had to fight to show how his condition is serious and not just imagined by doctors and that he can’t just think what he does bad and change. It was tiresome. So I didn't tell her he slept with someone else. Since I told he went to hospital, I didn't brought the subject back. She didin't ask. She asks how things are. I say fine. And tell her little nice things that happened. And my sister, while she is very understanding about BPD, she might be less understanding about sex things. She protects me. But then I want to protect him. It is not healthy for me. I also don’t want her to have any negativity against him in case we do make it together.
So I am grateful for opportunity to express myself here. Helps to get some structure in my mind :)


I told him how I felt, and he seemed to make his choice. For now. He stays family man and does everything he needs to be one. We’ll see how it works.

After yesterday’s session, lot of new things came to light. He lacks empathy. He needs limits in what he says to people and how, and when. They also consider limiting his rights to handling money. And put him in some therapy in hospital one afternoon per week. He also asked me if I feel manipulated by him.

Finally, he asked what therapy he is in. CBT with psychologist and psychoanalysis with psychiatric. And their job is to put him in uncomfortable situations so he learns. I don’t get it. He is constantly in uncomfortable situations, he needs tools to deal with them. Their strategy only brought him to hospital for wanting to kill himself 3d time in 6 month, where he slept with someone. He wrote to them about it and they were like, why you write us, it is your problem. He just asks for help. I don't know. It seems a bit strange for me. Even in the brochure they gave few month ago it is written first choice is DBT. CBT is not even mentioned in there. (I understand DBT was created from CBT). Is it best therapy for suicidal borderline? Has anyone has experience in this?

Another thing that bothers me, is that even they are talking about limiting his right in operating money they wouldn't talk to me about his condition. It affects me and our daughter. I have right to know what is going on. I don't ask to be in therapy with him. I ask doctor’s explanation about situation: he has this and this, we use that to make him better, we think this is better than that because of this and this, he takes this medics it might affect him like this or like that, if you notice smth tell us. He can’t be reliable now so you should do the things. Also there’s some things you can do to help him at this stage. Wouldn't be that the kind of conversation with any other kind of doctor?  If it were Alzheimer or schizophrenia, they wouldn't just let him be. And they are thinking of limiting his rights! He doesn't mind doctors telling me things. He is ok with that.

I am getting a bit upset. Anyone can tell me if I have right to talk to his doctor, or I am out of line here?

thankful,
desperate.wife

It sounds like the most stressful thing right now is that you are not able to talk openly with his doctors.  In some countries the doctors are less approachable than others, and in some countries they are very rigid about rules.  In those countries it's very nice when things are working well, but sometimes when they are not you feel like a fish swimming upstream, especially as an immigrant!

Do you speak the local language, or were you communicating in another language, like English?  You said that your husband is OK with you talking to the doctors.  In my country the patient can sign a form saying that someone else can talk to their doctors.  Does that work in the country that you are in?  If the doctors are not helpful, perhaps there is an administrative person in the hospital or medical office who can help you with such a form.

WW

I think I may need to move to another board... .the divorce talk is back on table, and I don't have energy to fight it. He is depressed and has existential crises. So doctors say. And I don't know if trying to keep him I help or hurt... .It would be so complicated for our daughter. As we would be in different countries. Still don't know if this crises is related to BPD. Looks like doctors don't think so. They are leaving him to solve it himself. Therapy sessions will be once every two weeks from now on... .

I did say some things that might have him want divorce again so we would be better without him.

Can depressed person make clear decisions? He changes his mind every week, mostly he is afraid to lose the daughter. And I was not feeling well. Was not creating loving wife role. He says maybe we should try few month separation. I know if I go home, I won't come back.

Hi desperate.wife,

Nice to hear from you!   Sorry you are having such a hard time of things!

You can start a new thread over on Conflicted if you like. You can include links to your posts here so people can more easily get up to speed on your story.

I hear ya. I have spent the last few years on this "are we gonna divorce or not?" ride, and most of the relationship on the break up ride. It's very painful and confusing. It feels real every time and it is so hard to know if you truly have a future or not.

I had a personal policy of not agreeing to a divorce if I could see he was dysregulating. There are some strict laws in the country I am in about divorce so he could talk about it all he wanted, but the cost and slow time frame made it impossible to do hastily. Now he is glad I did this, but at the time it was very stressful. I think I made the right choice though - he was also very depressed and not in a frame of mind to make such decisions in my opinion. I always said he could have his divorce, but it would have to be managed more slowly, carefully, and cooperatively, not in a panicked, freak out moment.

I won't ask a bunch of questions on this thread and will wait to see if you start a new one. Or, how about this, if you start a new one, come back and drop a link here please?

take care, pearl.

Thank you, pearl

right now we are seriously considering me and baby going to the sea for few months. This way we would have space from each other, I would have space to figure out things on my own, not with the family around. I am not ready going to my country and just the thought of the sea makes me smile right now. It is all so fresh. And so real. I just don't wanna my kid see her parents sad. I don't know where you are taking your energy from to do this. Admire your strength.

Oh, thank you desperate.wife! I admire you too - you are very brave! These are not easy issues, but it's great we have each other to help make sense of things and face them together!  

Do you have a houseboat or something? A safe alternative place to live? I would dream of having time and space alone to think! That sounds super!

warmly, pearl.

It sounds like you are talking about separating from your husband for a few months and going to stay at a place near the ocean where you can rest, be happy, and feel stronger?  This sounds like a good idea.  The time away will help you to think clearly about what you want to do.

If you are separated and still working through things, feel free to stay here on Bettering as well.  You can choose where you are the most comfortable.

When do you think you would leave to begin your separation?

WW

(I am posting this without having read it. I am sorry it might be messy and hard to understand, but I am too tired to correct it. If I don’t post it now, I will never will, snd I need to let it out.)
Well... .
Things are changing so fast. I can't keep track. I wrote a lot, but never posted, coz before I finished typing situation was changed. Then I was just too tired. Last few days I was completely down. I would just read sometimes others posts and think my situation is not nearly as bad, why do I feel so depressed.

Yes he said we should divorce, try separation at first. I went through all kind of feelings, not best ones, even though I agreed, but it is hard to let it go. He wanted to do grill that evening, he was in good mood, but I was getting more and more upset. We didn't. We decided to sleep in separate beds. But our daughter demanded to sleep on one of them. She knows. He came to bed all stinky and  he was watching smth on his phone with headsets on, but I could hear, I hate that in bed. Just by touching him, I started to cry. I left to sleep in kid’s room.

Next day he woke up with tears in his eyes. Later he came to the lake where we were and I saw the look on his face when he saw daughter running to him. He said he didn't want to miss this, let’s not hurry. We had nice day. We did grill.

But then I saw he is still talking to the colleague. He said she blocked him few days ago. And I said good, he doesn’t need unstable people in his life now. She blocked her because she slept with colleague now and my husband told she has a problem. She does. But it is not his place to say. Anyway. I really don’t like they talk. Coz she is very sexual active and goes both ways. It is not making it easier for him to stay monogamous and want family life. So I checked his phone when I found it unlocked. Day or two ago he was asking her if she and he could happen if he were single. All my good mood went away. He saw it. I found a way to ask him if he had feelings for her. If he wanted her. I said I really didn't want her in our lives if we were going to try. He denied any feelings. Nothing would happen between them... .But in the end he said it doesn’t depend only on him... .So if it depended only on him? He said. Yes. Then quickly added that he would want with any woman... .So we were going to try. We bought cheap tickets for me and my girl to go to my country for holidays with my family. We have planed to go all for first half of holidays, but then hospital, then money problem and we didn’t buy tickets in advance. Now they cost a fortune. 1500 for 3 people its too much. So on his holidays we planed to stay here and do what’s possible with tight budget go explore around get cheap airbnb, stay active. I got exited planning.

Next day was ok. We played video games, had good time. Connecting.

Day after he went to work for half day but stayed all day away. I asked if he changed his mind again. I was not feeling well all day. Like the world was pressing my shoulders. I was pissed he was having his smoking by the water and had to take care of the kid while feeling so low that could hardly get out of bed. She was fine, can play by herself, but that is not what I want for her. When he came back he said he didn't change his mind but haven't made it yet. He wanted to see how it goes. He said till end of august? But we won't even be here. We need more time to get things in normal order to see if it works. We decided till the end of the year. With talking things through if it is not write, but no talk about divorce till the end of the year. Coz I can't. We had sex. He said he wanted. Last 3 times he didn't enjoy and din't finish. And since then he kept saying he didn't want me. I did wanted but felt anxious of all those things above. So when we were at it I was eager, but he pushed me down to work on him and I understood that it will be one sided this time. I worked long. I enjoyed but got tired and didn't feel excitement, He seemed to be close but nop. than he pulled me and I thought he is going to be rough which hurts me, but then he slowed down. Right then I didn't feel like doing anything. But he didn't notice anything, and I didn't want to stop not to make him feel bad. I started to enjoy again bit then he stopped because of some distraction, and I thought ok so it is the end, I really didn't want to continue, but he pushed my had down and wouldn't let it go. I was feeling bad but he finished. Only the he noticed I was not ok. I explained it was like old times, when he was thinking about him self and it was too forced. And I know he can do better, we can do better. From January to mars we had great sex. He was caring, thinking about me, which made me want more. Till he stopped wanting me. I asked if he enjoyed it. He said yes till now. I said I told only we can talk about it and make it better. He said I was right but I saw he was down.

Tuesday he realised he had spent all avance already. a week till pay day. Hr got upset. He was afraid of going home. Of me. I am not scary person. He said that's the problem. I hit when he doesn't expect and I hit hard.  I am just communicating my worries... .And later he came back from outside where he smokes his stupid weed with no effect and laid down on bed. I came to him but smelled the smokes and said nicely in good mood, no bad feelings: you stink. He knows he does, usually he even takes shower and changes. But this time he got upset. He took it personally. Took shower and got into deep depression. And got angry. Because few months ago when he was not yet smoking, he was saying to my parents they were stinking. Repeatedly till it was not ok. I had to stop him: I do say to my ma parents they stink. They come back, they can't hug my baby immediately. But he went too far insisting. So I went on how he got upset over ___ing nothing. Then I Said I understand how little thing can put you in bad mood. It happens to me too. And there is nothing you can do. So I said we are fine. It will pass.

He was down till he got to see his therapists. While he was in therapy our daughter said she loved dad, and asked if I did. She then asked if I didn't want him to leave. When I said that to him he said: she knows
In therapy he got assignment to rate his values. I asked if he needed time for that. HE said no, it is not hard thing. He needs to provide for his family (sounded angry), if not love, then money (he added). I said that all he needs to provide is love. Sad look on his face. Anyhow, he was quite ok. It was his first day of holidays.

Yesterday we were supposed to go somewhere. Be active. He woke up depressed. Our home is depressed. It gets messier everyday. I don't care. I care, but I don't have energy to move. My teas and grains got invaded by food moth. I emptied cupboard. And worms where climbing everywhere. I was so demotivated I could just stand and watch at piles that need to be dealt with but couldn’t do anything. Feels like reflection of my soul: mess and worms. Anyway that morning I was quite ok and wanted to clean up. And I started, I threw away stuff and cleaned. Till he got the call. About old apartment. HE got upset. It is money again. He went completely down. I try to stay positive. He starts saying that we will be fine if we don’t need to pay that. I said we will still have to be careful with spending for next few months. He shouted on me to stop. I said so I stop, and nothing changes. He needs to get it that we can't spend like before now. He looked desperate and his emotion so intense that I was down immediately. Bad day. Didn't finish cleaning.

He is depressed and it is contagious. I don't feel good, I don't want to do anything. When he leaves I am upset But I don't want him to come back, coz I need no emotions. He is calm, just distant and depressed. And I would cry when I feel that he is down. It is just hopeless. I was siting in terrace with my tea today and was watching the rain, starting to feel relaxed. He came outside, little exchange and he went away to smoke in his corner away from windows. I said "oh I thought you came to be with me... ." He just shrug his shoulders and went away. My good mood vanished in seconds and tears filled my eyes. Why did I agree to those 6 month. It is going to be long long long. I am waiting till my holiday. I'd prefer holidays alone, but I have to think about my girl and she need family and she needs to practice my language. Our language. It is not fare she speaks his.

Meanwhile he tries, he cleaned up a bit, he is nice with her. But yesterday he said smth that upset me. We were by the lake, I asked him to play a bit on the shore with baby while I swim a bit. I did it with her but wanted a bit alone, to be able to relax more. He played fine. I couldn't relax fully, I still hear them, she still calls me to show smth, but it was nice. Later our neighbour showed up. The only friend she has here. With his dad. So we chatted, they played, and my husband couldn't smoke his stuff he rolled, then he offered to home as it was getting late but neighbour kid was not going yet and our daughter wanted to go to playground with them. I said go with papa as I was still in my swimming suit and all things scattered around. He whispered that I will pay. For what I ask? You had your swim and I have to go to playground now? So you can swim more?... .I didn't realise then, but five minutes later I was like pay for what? That you played with your daughter 10 minutes? That you go to playground with her? That I could swim alone for 10 minutes first time in a week? To be alone 10 minutes first time in a week. Ant not really alone, you were few metres away... .Instead of going home to prepare dinner I went back to the lake. Calmed down. Anyway, he was ok when he came back. Said it was fine, never mentioned paying anything. But today when he woke up with his face all gloomy sad tired I felt down again. He wanted his morning pleasure I helped him a bit but he was all really not fresh, I can’t stand it, that’s why I don't like it in the morning, because I can't even kiss him. Shower, brush firts then yes baby... .I told him not once, but he has 3 seconds memory... .So I was helping with hands when kid called me and I left. I didn't go back. I was relieved actually. I wanted today some pleasure myself but not with that depressed man.

We were both not ok today. But I can't show it. Coz it deepens his depression. He is like, but I did nothing why are you upset. But at this point, I am just emotionally tired and can't help being upset. He was trying to be ok, and helpful. I appreciate, I told him, thank you. I mean it, but I don't feel it.

Tomorrow grill by the lake planed, some shops, for basics. Will see.

I know in a few days, I will feel fine. I will have 2-4 days to get the mess hell out of my home. I'll have to do maximum till bad day's comes again. And then some holidays apart.

At some point in all this, I wrote a letter for future. I just said I am 95 percent sure he will sleep with his colleague (she sleeps with everyone), and 50 percent sure it will happen while we will be on holidays. I hope I will never need to send it.

Hi desperate.wife,

Sorry you are feeling so low! I know how hard it is to be with someone who is depressed. It can bring your own mood, and the whole household, down very low.

Do you want to talk to him more about this work colleague? You think he will sleep with her while you are away with your daughter? Do you think you can talk openly with him about this? What would you want to say to him about this?

wishing you peace, pearl.

Hi desperate wife

This is a very hard situation you're dealing with and, having him home all the time, seems to be bringing up a lot of stressful situations every day.

It's difficult for you to practice self care in this situation, I understand, so I can only suggest that you try to minimise how much you react to his changing feelings and moods. Remember that a pwBPD can have many fleeting feelings and moods during the day and it's usually best to try to keep yourself stable and not add any fuel to the fire.

If you ignore most of the changing moods, he will probably forget too and the feelings will pass. Try as best as you can to go about the day looking after you and your daughter. Not easy I know.

Why has his psychologist cut his therapy down from weekly to every two weeks, do you know?
Are his therapists also aware of his sex addiction?

When do you go away on your own holiday with your daughter? I hope it's soon, as you obviously need some space and time to rest.

May I ask: was it his suggestion that you go away without him?


I'm sure you realise it's wise to listen to your instincts. What do you think you will do if this happens?

Sorry for so many questions! This is a very complex situation and you have all our support in helping you work through it   

 Hi pearl, hi SunandMoon,
Thank you for your time reading my mess :)


I don't think I want to talk about it more, I said all I wanted, it is up to him now. I know he doesn't think he would do that. He believes that. But as he said after sleeping with that other patient, he can't trust himself anymore. I guess I will ask him to keep his promise not sleep with anyone for now.


Not easy, if possible at all. I need to learn to behave, and not tell everything I want when he is not ok. I try. If I see him down, I try to cheer him up. I would prepare him drink that he likes or some little things like that so he would feel welcomed and loved. But that’s when I see him sad, if there is even vague hostility or distance I can't help myself.


I am not really sure why. They are two: psychologist and psychiatrist, and they decided to do sessions together so they are both up to speed, maybe that’s why. Also I think they believe that he only needs to figure out what he wants. But everyday he wants different things, and he really believes that it is it. I asked him if they are addressing sex issues, he said his psychiatrist thinks he already talks too much about sex. They are actually addressing other issues as manipulation, controlling people, lack of social skills, each time it is something new. But for me all the problems comes from his sexual needs. Either he is not telling me something or to them. Or they are not qualified enough to deal with this. I don't know. Or maybe they know what they are doing. Not rushing him. Just few weeks ago he asked me when I thought it was big break down, that he became this way. I said it was all the time, when we met, he had it. He is struggling in finding out all this. I was surprised that only 5 months after he found out about BPD and all others disorders, only now he starts to realise what’s going on. But it was mild. Till sex crises, it was odd but ok. He agreed to go to see sex therapist, and couple therapy. His doctors thinks it would be too much for him to go to 3 therapies. I agree as long as he goes to see sex therapist. For that he needs appointment with his GP first. It is not done yet, coz we can't pay now. But it is just an excuse. He could take appointment for later next week. Will see.


At the end of the month. My family had planned a week holiday by remote lake surrounded by forests and week by the sea. My husband wanted to go just by the lake, as it is real rest, you wake up and you don't need to do anything, just be there, swim, pick up mushrooms, enjoy sauna. Time stands still. No internet. And second half we were going to stay with my girl alone. He couldn't get more holidays. I have some administrative stuff to do and get fixed my teeth, I need more time there. But tickets got too expensive. And I was thinking to postpone going home for some time. But my mom asked if she keeps the room she booked for us, and I was feeling like we need time separated, but I was afraid to leave him alone depressed. I checked some tickets and found good enough offer. We could afford only one way. And get way back when he gets payed. But it is then that I brought the subject about colleague. And he assured he won't do anything, has no feelings. And that we can go alone. It is ok. I guess I was reassured. Coz I needed to know there will be home to come back. So it was me suggesting to go alone.
If it happens what I wrote in that letter I think, I would go to the other sea as we talked discussing separation. It would be for me to get time adjust in most relaxing place in the world. We don’t have home there, we would have to rent.


Don't be sorry, questions helps me to stay focused :)

Yesterday I found some chemical stick for traces in bathroom or something like that. I gave to him to put away. He put under tv. I say it would be better to put in toilets or cellar. He answered: it makes sense in my mind. I say smiling: our minds works differently. He :  lot of people can say this. Exept people in hospital. They think the same.
It is so sad to hear this. Clearly, he is not ok. How you don't get depressed with all this. I get it. I need to learn to detach from his depression. And hope that it will pass. I don't know if I can. It would be easier if it was just that without all this sex noncence. Makes it harder to be trusting and understanding.

Other day he said that according to his doctors he was manipulating people to get things his way. He liked it. He got things he wanted. Being nice never works out. That’s who he was. It sounded like he is proud of that. I don't think I like it. But he is not that manipulative. Or am I missing something?
He is controlling. He like things his way. So do I. So we had balance. But he wants to control the way others has to react and feel. Instead of giving info about something, he just tells everyone what to do and gets angry if people have questions or don't obey. He knows better.

I had pretty good morning. Had some tears reading your answers here. Litter of antistress tea in terrace with my girl. Writing the answer. Starting to feel happy. Now he is up and cooking pancakes with her. He looks ok. He sleeped longer today. His face is nicer. We will see. I am tensed.

I was going to write that it turned out to be great day given the circumstances. We had pancakes, some rain and thunder  (always makes me feel good), grill outside, he with our daughter made bana bread, we had some great time all 3 of us and he found some chess event that he wanted to attend but had no fuel. I gave him some money from food (manipulation? he became all upset that he can't afford to go there, and I just thought it is something that would cheer him up, and wanted to avoid depression showing up). He also said he'd like to go to sports. I reminded it will be Sunday. He said he'd still go to work on machines as there's no training. Then I went by the lake all by myself... .I felt good again. As it was rainy day, there was nobody. And evening sun was there and view was great. I relaxed and got thinking. I felt that my few happy days are coming. I thought that maybe we all should go tomorrow. It would be good opportunity for family tripo. He is going anyway. And we haven't been there. Event would be just afternoon, so we could spent all morning exploring. I came back home without them noticing me, took shower and then he asked were was I. I sent a picture. Me with towel in the living room. He: what’s with the picture. And like discussed face. I didn't get. Maybe it was too sexy... I felt upset but let it go. Then he got upset when our girl started singing in my language happy birthday to her cousin. Well he got upset that I encouraged it. He: why are you against me. Angrily. I am sorry, but the hell. It was fun and he he asked to say it in his language and she did. But he was angry on me. I told him it was bs, I did nothing wrong, it was fun and everyone would get it. It is his mind that created the problem. Felt like crying. All the good that lake did, vanished like that. But I hold myself together. Prepared bath for baby and then I asked how he was. He said he got upset because he forgot his morning pill. He was upset that he can't go a day without a pill without feeling bad. And he apologised. Then a bit later I brought the idea about family trip tomorrow. The reaction was: but what about my sports? I wouldn't be able to go then... .What can I say. His choice. I felt upset. I don't even know why. Because we were in ok moods and I thought we could spend some quality time together... .I felt like crying again. Hard to breath. But hold myself together and played with girl in bath. It was nice. Then he put her to sleep on her demand, and I came to write. Now I asked him what he wants to do. He: Take too much pills?

I am not strong enough. I don't know how to react. I feel bad again. He: I wont do it, you know? I just need to take morning pills and I will be fine.

So great day, not so good evening.

Oh something I remembered. He said it could be prostitutes, not random or chosen people, so no feelings attached. It is apparently legal here, so they are checked. I dismissed the idea immediately. I suck at validation. It makes sense in his head. For me it is the same. That's when he agreed to see sex therapist.

I was shocked, actually, about his reaction. It is new to me. I am afraid that his BPD behaviour is getting worst. He never accused me like that before. I don't recall. I am worried.

I am sorry we are not keeping up with your thread!  What were you shocked by?

It's been a few days.  How are things going now?

WW

Thank you WW, don't worry, I understand there's lot of going here. You are doing wonderful job keeping up with everyone . I really admire your dedication.

I was shocked by the way that he was accusing me being against him for nothing, and the tone. I am not used to that.

Things here are, hmmm, not the worst. ... .He is still depressed. According to different tests, I am too. But he was trying as he put it "not to be a burden". We didn't go anywhere for his vacation. Basically he sits in the yard and smokes his stuff. He is nice to kid, tries to play with her. Till yesterday, when he lost it when he had to repeat few times something. He is having bad dreams, like his father dying or him being Tom Hanks in the Game. After that, he feels empty and all day he does nothing.

I was feeling not too bad but couldn't make myself do anything much either. I've been reading that book Feeling Good, that is recommended on this site. It is great. I am really optimistic about it. It helps me see my thinking and why I feel that way. I hope he will read it too. It sounds like he could benefit great deal from it. He says he will give it a try, but who knows. He says lot of things. I’m also doing moodgym program online. I have to do an exercise where you have to write what you felt and then what you thought and what you did. But the thinking part is hard to me. It seems that I feel without thinking; at least at the moment when strong emotion comes. Let's say I see him with depressed face or he ignores me and I turn sad, hopeless in a seconds. It is not that I do all the reasoning to feel bad. I have to keep reading the book.

Oh, we got kitten. I wanted it since we started living together. He always had excuse: when you’ll learn language, when you’ll get job (for baby was the same reasons... .), and there was always something. Last one was when we move to new home and it was promised to our daughter. Here we were 4 month and it still didn't happen. We have been looking around, but more reasons not to have it were made: we are unpacked, we don't have money, we will go on holidays... .And then, few days ago, he said we should get it, so he is not alone when D3 and me goes away for few weeks. I was thinking that way for a while. Of course he got cold feet, first he doubted he will be able to take care of him, then that D3 will cry when she have to leave it for vacation. But we went through. First day was not easy, D3 so excited, want to play with it, carry it arround and cries when kitten hides scared at a new place. It meows a lot. Many emotions yesterday and I didn't get much sleep. I am surprised I don’t feel that much love for the kitten, I am more annoyed with all the dissorder... .I still think it is a good idea. My husband will have something to care for and the reason to go home after work.

Since I wrote last time on my thread that I was feeling ok, I started to have less energy, and feel more just staring at things that had to be done. Till yesterday evening. Till I saw your reply, WW. I don't know, in a second something changed and I was happy cleaning, and in an hour I did more than whole day, like the spell was removed from me. I guess I am lonelier than I thought. I am happy I found this place. Thank you all.

Later in the evening, my moods changed again because he said he will stay long outside, and I really don't like it. He wakes me up when he comes to sleep. And then he came back saying he was going to stay longer so he’ll might sleep on sofa, took his sheets. I was upset. I cried, not that he was going to sleep on sofa. But that he is acting out like a teenager, staying late, not being responsible. Then, either he forgets to take pill, or he does and sleeps half day. Both ways he wakes up in a very bad mood. And there is so much to do before the trip. (I guess I know what I am thinking sometimes :d) He heard me crying and came to sleep immediately.

Thank you for sharing with us how you are doing!

Yes, this place is amazing.  It helps a lot with the isolation.  Congratulations on the kitten!  Yes, they are cute when you first see them, but when you own one, you realize that they are very difficult!  I have had cats most of my life, but only one or two at a time, so I'll usually go 15 years between kittens, and I forget how I like cats much better than kittens!  Luckily, time will solve that problem!

I understand what you are saying about moods changing quickly, and suddenly feeling sad or suddenly feeling better.  I find that when I am worrying about things I don't control, like the behaviors of other people, it is a certain way to be miserable.  The more I can stay focused on doing things I control, the happier I am.  It's difficult when other people are doing not good things, but I keep trying.

WW

Hi DW

I've just been catching up on your thread... .wow, there's a lot going on!

I'm glad you made the decision to go on holiday on your own, not his idea. The lake sounds really beautiful and I'm sure that will be a good place to find some peace and have a break from the day to day stress you are dealing with.

I think a lot of this - the escalation you have seen since his diagnosis and starting therapy - is his way of coming to terms with his illness. It would be hard for anyone to have to realise that the way they think and behave is "not right".

I think it's pretty common that people react like this after a diagnosis. Start acting more crazy in the beginning - maybe using their illness as an excuse to behave even more crazy!

This is hard for you not to react to, of course! By try, as much as possible, to separate his feelings and moods from yourself. Give it time... .


I agree with his doctors. He is struggling as it is, so I think more therapy would probably overwhelm him too much. If he has both a psychologist and a psychiatrist working with him, I'd trust that they know what is best right now. Do you know what other diagnoses he has, apart from BPD?


I think you might be right - they don't know the extent of his sexual needs and problems. Maybe the solution - rather than a separate therapy - is to ask him to tell his doctors everything about the sexual stuff. Tell him to tell them that this is really affecting his life and he needs to tell them everything. If he is honest, they can incorporate this into his therapy.

In the meantime, try to keep his moods separate from you and your daughter, DW. This is his stuff to deal with and you can only support him so far. You can't fix him and you need to keep a stable point for you and your daughter.

Are you getting excited about your holiday? When do you leave?

 

I never thought about it this way, but it is true we get more upset about things we don’t control. We creat expectantion’s in our minds and when they are not met…That’s why I like this book, “Feeling good”. We can’t control others, but we can control our thoughts. It is a lot of work though.


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Thank you, SunandMoon, for taking time to read all this I really appreciate.

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I keep telling it to myself. But it is hard not to get impatient to see the progress. It is easier to give time when he is far.

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I am not sure, he told me months ago, I agreed with all, I remember nodding when he was telling, till he mentioned borderline; I had no idea what it was, so I remember only that one now :d But NPD was also in the list.

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I asked him once to tell to his doctors. He replied that psychiatrist thought he was talking every time about sex and that he wanted to talk about something else…That’s why I am insisting on him seeing therapist specialised in the subject.


So an update since last time I wrote…

There was a scene in shopping centre. I was considering to take away (les choice) or to go to self-service restaurant. (Same place, same chain). I was just thinking where would be better for our daughter. When I asked him what he thought, he answered, “take away” immediately, Me: but the other one has more choice…And then he started to loose it: Why you ask, if you know the answer! You always do like that! My answer is always wrong. And so on.
I left them arguing. When I came back, I explained that I asked him so we can decide together. Discuss about it. After eating, he took trashes away from the table, but left plastic bottle. Few minutes later, he put that bottle down, where he was writing and left it. I asked if he needed it (to refill for the car or smth) or I can throw it away. He answered: throw away or should we discuss it, what do you think we should do?
At home, I explained differences between two situations. When I asked about place to eat I didn’t ask him to decide, that it didn’t mean I didn’t have my preferences. He said he understood and would do better.

We never talk like that. We were ok. I don’t know what to expect. Reading other stories here it does not give much hope that he will get better.

About kitten. He said to our daughter in English (which means it was addressed to me): it is mama’s plan, isn’t it? That I always have to come back home. I can’t leave kitten. But I thought about it. I have a plan. I would leave kitten at neighbours saying I need to go for the weekend… Then he adds: I will not do it.
At the airport I asked him to stay alive. He promised immediately. It took me to ask 3 times to stay faithful…In the end he promised unwillingly, without looking me in the eyes. Only because we were in security check up line…And I was insisting, holding the line.

Once at my parents, he announces he has 0 again on the account. After claiming we had more than enough…He asks not to talk about budget anymore. When I saw him on Skype, he was all out off face. Even through the distance, it affected me. Luckily, I could shake it off during the day. Didn’t call him for some days. 

I was sending him pictures of holidays and he was saying he is happy that our daughter is having fun, happy, that she needed real vacations. He started reading “Feeling good”.

He keeps saying he misses our doughter. Only once he said he was missing us both. He never expressed he was happy I have some holidays.

When we came back at my parents, I asked to get bank records of last 6 months. He confessed he went to casino and lost quite some money. Then, that he registered on a dating site. Just to look what is there of interest, not to date anyone actually. He had two anti-stress pills that makes him kind of zombie that day. He was feeling ashamed of things he was doing. That he might go to hospital in two weeks when he sees his docs. I told him to read the book. If he does what is written in it, he will feel better in two weeks. He said he’d do it. I was angry, tired. I said he is not giving me any reasons to come back. I need a stable environment for my girl. I need to be able to give her good food and relaxed mom. He said to stay at my parents till he gets his sh* together. Anyway, I was planning one more week or two, I need some things to do. But we don’t have tickets back.

Yesterday I asked again for bank records. He ignores. When I asked 3 times, he said no. I asked why, answer was that he didn’t know how. B***t. He is IT guy. Internet is his home. He can manage to find those records online. He didn’t read book all day. Talked to our daughter a bit. He was not in good mood. In the evening, he was feeling lonely, but kitten was filling the void.

It has been 2 weeks that we are away but his depression is not going any better. According to his doctors, he is in self-destructive mode. He destroys everything that works for him. They want him to have blood tests. And they are going to give him more medication in two weeks. He had to write letter to his parents that he would never send. He did it, but it will be analised only in two weeks. Doesn't seem very helpfull.

And I don’t know what to do. I will stay here for few more weeks at least. I don’t really want, but my girl is catching up on language and even though she is asking every day to go back home to the kitty and dad, she loves it here with her little cousin and grandma. She has people and no depression around. I am not fully recovered. I feel that I was not enjoying the sea as I used to. I couldn’t relax completely. I couldn’t write.

I need to know how to talk about finances with my husband. Each time it’s 0 on the account, he swears he’ll give me all access to the money, then when he gets payed, he assures all is fine. If I try to talk about it, he feels attacked, he is big boy, and he knows what he is doing. He even manages making me feel uncomfortable and I back out. How do I approach this issue?

desperate.wife,

I'm so sorry you didn't get a timely response.  How are you doing?

For the bank account, is your name on the account?  Can you contact the bank directly by phone and ask them for the information?  Do paper statements come in the mail (I know this won't help when you're at your parent's)?

WW

Hi, WW and all,

I was intending to write so many times, but I never force myself to do it. It is as if I need to feel really bad to be able to write. I am more or less ok. I am just passing my days without thinking. I feel worse when I see him online in down mood. Makes me want to stay here forever. When he is in good mood, I think I might be ready to go back.
There were few incidents. He said once he needs us to stay longer away. There was no need to say it. I was not going to go back for at least 2 weeks. He comes back from therapy each time exited and says such statements without thinking. It upset me, because it is my home too and I should be able to come back when I want. Then he started saying we are welcomed but I shouldn't expect him to be better. I don’t really want to go back in depressed home. I was still upset with him saying every few days that we should stay longer. But I guess it is like that for him. He was asking if he could sleep with other people every few days (for him it seemed weeks). He is lost in time, in his mind and I shouldn’t react. But I do

Other thing, he was happy, doc told him to make friends outside the family circle. Which is ok in general, but triggered bad reaction from me. ”Yea, dahhh, it is not rock science to say that. I have been living in foreign countries for years moving and moving, friends are not easy to make. We were recovering from not sleeping for two years, we were going slowly back to normal life, I was hoping we can make friends as family: nice neighbours around. But he isolated us quickly by being cold, and my lack of language for chitchatting didn’t help (I am better in real conversations). And now he would make friends (with benefits?) alone? While spending time on phone or doing sports everyday, including Saturdays (he is less going to gym on Saturdays since we left), he is rarely home. Friends would take more time from us. Me. I would have to beg even more for time for myself…” Those were my thoughts…

Recently he wrote that he decided he wanted to see our girl growing up. Meaning, he is not going to jump. Good news. I felt really relieved. But can I trust it? He got payed so he was in better place, how long will it last? One week? till he spends all the money? Already he didn’t want talking money few days later…It is like I can’t ask anything. Everything is on his name so I can’t talk to bank. Only thing I can do is to try to contact his doctors and inform them as he is hiding money problems from them. Should I do it?
Earlier this week he was on extra pills that makes him zombie, it made me so worry seeing him like this. He was just standing not communicating, you know, out of the car but not going to the apartment for 15 minutes, when asked what’s going on, got angry, said he doesn’t need to report everything to captain DW… Then he said he had too much pills because that female colleague came back from holidays with the same haircut that reminds him his dead ex guy. And that now she is telling she wants to kill herself. I told him it is not up to him to talk to her. Refer to professionals. And sleep. I DON’T NEED THIS.
Next day was his birthday. He overslept due to his pills. He also forgot to take medication in the evening and was feeling down, which led him saying he doesn’t want to talk money or talk at all… With our girl, we made cake and wanted to call him to sing the song but he was already in the bar with colleagues and said he couldn’t answer… We sent a video. He called back when he went to smoke. At least that much.
Later in the evening, he said he doesn’t want to feel that way anymore. Maybe it is sign of real change. He is looking for help. His medications are going to be changed. He got checked his blood and heart. He met sexologist (didn’t tell much about it, just that his testosterone will be checked and that he has to play chess and do sports when he has urges. Like it helps…), last two times when he called, he was super nice and engaging with our girl. It felt artificial, like too much enthusiasm, but I appreciate this. Our daughter is very sensitive to his bad moods, the evening when he had lot of pills, she fell asleep saying: we have each other and we will protect each other. 3 years old.
This morning she woke up with questions. Why I am here? Why are you here?

I don’t have a plan. I don’t know what I want. I see my girl running with her little cousin, happy laughing, attached deeply to my mom, having fun with big cousin, improving the language every day. She is happy. But she keeps asking to go home. To be all together, daddy, kitty and us. Yesterday she wished we were living next to grandparents…She needs everyone. Me too. I miss my home. But I have no one there but my depressed husband. I know I can’t face any of his angry outburst, I can’t see him of mood. I am not strong enough. I haven’t worked on myself all this month, and I am ok only in neutral situations.
I met a friend that I haven’t seen for more than a year, I told her everything. No one else in real world knows as much. I told her about deadline and his infidelity. She is most acceptant and non-judgmental person I know. I also got tooth implant. I figured it would help with my self confidence. I had removable tooth that I swallowed. It is pricy, I was afraid of the procedure, but facing possible divorce, getting out of comfort zone, and swallowing tooth makes good time for changes 

I am running out of reasons to prolong my stay here. On Monday I’ll have stiches removed, then few more days to get temporal tooth, and voila… Time to go back. Well I still need to find cheap tickets. I feel conflicted. Now it will be my decision when to go back. I should go back for one thing: I have no shoes or clothes for the autumn. :d Weather has changed from 30 degrees one day to 15 the other. And rain… I got cold… Also, I will have to return in 6 moths to finish dealing with my implant. So I will not be there forever. Besides, deadline for us is New Year. I should be there to see if our marriage could work. But I know if he can’t get out of his depression, we can’t work on anything else. Our girl should start some preschool activity group on Monday (she’ll miss that one for sure). It is important class if we stay in that country, but it doesn’t matter if we are going to live here. I got invitation to participate in some therapeutic writing workshop. But I can’t engage as I have no idea what will happen next. Î really want to participate. People’s opinions about it are excellent. Better then psychologist, they say.

Thank you all for reading. I am trying to organise my thoughts. I am not very good at it. I am not organised person in general…


Hugs,
DW

DW,

I don't have anything helpful to say but wanted to give you a virtual  .  Keep taking care of yourself!

Buzz

Hi DW,

Sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time, even while away! I am glad you had this time with family, and had some space from the issues (although those of course go with you anywhere you may be) to think about what the future might hold.

You mention have a deadline of January. Can you discuss this a bit more? You have set a deadline for making a decision about the marriage, your future, where you and your daughter will live?

Is your husband still wanting to be involved with other people? Have you seen any signs that point to a chance at a future for you, him, and your child together as a family?

warmly, pearl.

Thank you Buzz! I appreciate the hug  It is helpful!

   

Hey Pearl, nice to see you, I hope you are doing better. Sometimes life is not as we imagined it would be.

About deadline. Yes, it is for our relationship. Well more for him to decide what he wants in life. I don't know. He was so undecided. One day he wants divorce the other let’s not rush, he wants to see our girl. If he could, he would have it all, family and freedom. I couldn't handle this emotionally, so I asked not to speak about divorce for some time. He offered until the end of August. I didn't think in a month something drastically would change, so I said it has to be more time so he had a chance to get better. One can't take decisions like divorce when depressed. So we decided deadline to be New Year. He is trying, asking help from outside, but for now, he did little effort himself. It takes time.

Yesterday we talked about our coming back. Cheap tickets was only for second half of the month. I was not sure if he was happy he would get more time alone or he was upset. He even agreed that we stay a bit longer for some event (faire) I'd like to attend. He offered to wire some money, but then he realized he had non. Again. A week after payday. So his mood was going down in seconds. I am afraid, if he does nothing to control his emotions, he'll be depressed till next payday.

There is a bit more expensive tickets to go back sooner. The difference is 100, but at this time, it is a lot for us. I asked him if he wants us sooner or not. If our coming back would help him or disturb him. He said that it would help. Later in the evening, when asked how he felt, he said ok as long as he wasn't thinking about money or kid being away.

I think I’ll take the cheap ticket and stay here a bit. To get myself ready for facing all the mess again. He will start new medication next week; see sexologist in two weeks (if she agrees to be payed later) and hopefully he will be in better place. I still don't know how to talk money to him. It makes sense for me that only 100 is left. But for him it comes as surprise, he imagines we have more than we do... .Before moving we lived much better. But moving here was expensive. More than moving from country to country  If not his refusal to accept it and deal with it, we would have been back on our feet by now. He lost 1000 in casino last month. We would be fine if he hadn't done this. He has already promised our girl to go to Legoland in a few months... .Luckily she is too little to remember such promises or understand what Legoland is.

I need to work on how to stay calm and detached from his emotions. I need to stop expecting things from him. I do understand he needs to heal and is not capable to do all husband and father should do, but when he is around I do expect it, especially when I see little one trying to get his attention. I tell myself it is ok if he just comes with us, but then if he stays on the phone all the time, gets angry when interrupted and our girl expects him to play with her, I get frustrated. Or if I need help getting her dry after a play in water and I need to ask, because he is not aware of his environment, I get upset. I can do it all by myself, but when he is with us, I expect him to help. I can't control it. And I get very upset, angry, hostile. I can be supportive, but lately I have less and less patience. Especially when I know that he is choosing between me and other people. Hard to stay loving.

Kisses
DW

Hi DW,

Thanks for the update!   

I understand about deadlines. I've set some of those too to help put a frame and end date around things. I've found they can be very helpful. Glad you have one in mind!

In terms of your own feelings towards him what are they now? Do you imagine yourself being able to accept the marriage? What are you hoping, at best, might come of his work with the sexologist?

Is there any chance for you to have intimacy with him, to have what you would want out of the relationship? Now or in the future?

take care, pearl.

If he is BPD his statements about feelings and sex are not to be trusted. He may not lie but he does not know himself. No feelings may well be fear of feelings and at times emotional overload.

Your relationship has been going for a long time and clearly he still us attached to you. It takes a while to wrap your head around attachment, feelings and sex. Related but its complicated.

Babies take away attention. While the baby drama was going on the connection / attachment became stronger. No there is normalcy and that void is frightening him. Triggering abandonment. And of course the solution is elsewhere... .

Your situation is complex. Take your time to figure out what to do, lots if good advice has been given. Educate and practice the tools here - they do help when done with focus and consistency.

Hang in there ,
a0

It is complicated. Even before all this, I was feeling lack of emotional connection. Each time apart, I was not really missing him. I would be upset to leave him when going on holidays. It would feel real. But once we are apart, our communication is limited. So now, after more than one month apart, only once I felt that I missed him a bit. When he tried to be playful with our girl. The rest of the time... .I don't miss depression. And I keep thinking about all the things our relationship wouldn't have with his BPD limitations. That is, if everything were fine in his head on all other issues. I guess the time until deadline will help to see if I can accept this marriage. Our girl keeps asking to go home. I see how much better for her is here, how happy she is with all the people around, but she also needs daddy and home. Worth trying for her. I bought tickets today and I am torn. I know I have to go, but I don't really want... .At least today. My feelings are conflicted.


That he understands his needs and learns to control, accepts there's a problam. I don't want to walk on him doing his business any time of the day no matter our kid is running around or not. I can't let her walk on him. It is an issue for me. And if he chooses life alone, he'll still be her father, if she goes to visit him I need to know she will not see different partners each time or unproriatre biahavors.


I don't know. If I feel loved, needed and respected. He was not wanting me recently. I felt alianated. Most important he has to be great father. I need to know we are on the same page in raising her. If I see him being there for her, I could have be nice to him. I can't get everything I'd like from this relation, I never got it all, but at least he was there, loving as he knew. Now, I doubt I can get what I need: a partner. In future, I don't know. He is good man, if he can get rid of his depression we can still have good times.
But damage was done and it would take time to repair it. Last 4 times we had/tried sex it was bad. First 3 he was not feeling it and forcing. Doesn’t make you feel self-confident… And last time, he was happy, and I cried. It was like old old times, where he cared only for himself. He was never good in reading body language and noticing your emotions. Except for few months at the beginning of the year, when he was all about pleasing me after reading some book. But that last time scared me. I will not go back to that bad sex times. And he was all so happy and satisfied. It will take time until I’ll be able to relax next to him in that way. It is sad.   

Thank you, an0ught, for taking time to read and answer, it is really helpful to see different points of view, helps to keep me more focused.


I know he doesn't lie, and doesn't want to hurt me intentionally. That is why I chose longer deadline, hoping he could understand himself. I am learning not to trust in hard way... .

I guess it is true. He was all in during pregnancy, and first years of baby growing. Then things where coming back to normal... .Also he had lot of stress at work with the deadline of project coming to end... .I guess it's a mix. We will never know for sure.


I need to become better person to practice those tools. I don't have patience. I don't think I have fully digested the situation I am in as it was changing so fast. Being away from the tension calmed me, only once or twice briefly I felt anger arising when my kid was not listening. I have two more weeks to relax and work on my thoughts.

I really like your signature  it is so truth
DW

Hello everybody,

time has come and tomorrow I am going back to my husband. After I bought tickets (which was very hard emotionally), I was completely not thinking about all those things for past two weeks. I was just enjoying being here. Had good time. Went to old entertainment park that has old old inventory from my childhood (some from my parents’ childhood). Went to pick mushrooms in the forest. Had great time walking in the gardens in the still warm sunshine. Felt the happiness of the moment, when you just walk, sun shines, you smell fresh cut grass, hear some birds and you breath it all in and just can't help but smile how great it is. I haven't felt that for long time.

(I am crying writing this, I have no idea why).

I bought some encyclopaedias for kids and craft and activities books. I will try to concentrate on what matter most. Be with my girl, I have one year to enjoy till she has to go to school. I also got idea how to get some money working from home. 

Am I ready to go back? Yes and no. I miss living on my own; I hate to be far away from my family. My husband seems ok. As he says, new dosage make him feel well adjusted. We haven’t talked about anything but our girl. Didn't raise any issues, except once he said he was stressed coz we are coming back and he has no money. I told him I had some cash in that currency and D3 will have what to eat. He said he missed us. I didn't feel the need to contact him much. Yesterday he said we should all go to see his parents for New Year.

I know when I get back if he is fine in his head I'll get used to being together again. And I will care again. It is always like that, but this time there is more baggage.

Do I try to talk with him about things before coming back? Or I just go and see how it goes? I want him to be not competitive about languages. Our girl now speaks more my language and he got pushy over skype. I am afraid she will go back speaking his language like always.
I have no idea how his sexual needs progressing. I don't know if he is going to expect something from me. I am not ready for that. I feel pressure already…
I don’t know if he has thoughts about suicide. He does look better, I still can’t be sure.
Money still an issue. This month he got money from his parents again. Very little for us but in their country can be half salary. I don't care anymore that he is taking money from them.
Before leaving, he asked expensive presents for his birthday, like some piano, 3D printer... .I got only t-shirt with his favorite TV show, I think he could like. But it is small present. He likes to make giant gestures and he expects them in return. I don't have money for that. Do I tell him not to expect anything big?
I am afraid to say anything to put him in depressed mood.

These are my thoughts and fears today. (I cry again…).

Yours, DW

Hi DW,

Nice to hear from you! I know this feels like such a big moment. You are in one part of the world with family and the language of that place, and then you will be back with him in another part of the world and language and all will be different. It can sometimes feel like you are going being planets and not just countries!

Try to take it easy. Look at your own assumptions and expectations. Work with letting go. Be clear about what you want, don't want, and what you can compromise on.

Are you two together now mostly for your child or do you also hope to see him make some changes? He is taking medication and doing counseling? If so, that does take time.

The less you push him to change, and keep turning the focus back to yourself the more at peace you will be I think.

What things are you feeling the urge to talk to him about? Maybe best to get some of that energy out here as it could lead to a lot of stress and pressure for you two. Being together after being apart could be stressful for any couple, it takes time to adjust, but under the circumstances it is even more so for you and your husband.

How are you viewing your marriage these days? What do you want from it?

warmly, pearl.

Thank you Pearl, I'll get back on your thoughts soon, I need to pack today

Just quick update on my husbands therapy. I dont know what to think about it.
My husband has been in therapy since February. They diagnosed BPD, depression, existential crisis and lot of other things. He has been suicidal. He was in a hospital for a week. Last few months it was not intensive therapy at all. Once every two weeks. I always worried he was not getting help he needed. He has been seeing 2 doctors psychiatrist and psychologist separately at first then joint sessions. He is on medication.

Yesterday he went to see them again, and they said they would see him in two weeks to see how it goes with us back (D3 and I spent almost 2 month at my parents). Then they might refer him to another doctor. They said they did everything they could and he is not getting better. Is it normal?

Hi, just wanted to reach out, not so much with advice, but just that many aspects of your story seem so similar to me. My kiddo is still younger but we had a lot of similar childrearing stories and beliefs. My husband does not having the sexuality problems of different partners. Has struggled with porn and just doesnt get sex is emotional for me. It matters that we are connected and things are healed. For him it is so physical due to past abuse and porn surely numbing and giving improper feelings toward sex.

I also have been super stressed about finding proper therapy.  It is so hard! I called the mental health center here and asked who specialized in PBD, they said everyone does. However, I look up their training, background and specialities and none of them have it! I get the tired and feeling isolated. We moved recently and dont have many friends.

I get making decisions based around having a family for your daughter too. I often think this isnt fair to me but then I think that's against my beliefs and my son deserves a family more.

Are you sure the frequent divorce being brought up isnt a way to test and prep for abandonment? I know my husband did that once when he was having a really hard week. He gave me three options to deal with his crap, move on and let it be, or divorce.  I told him none of them are acceptable, we will be working things out, and he is accountable for his actions. The next day he apologized for being in such a dark place and thank you for not divorcing him. Your situation, obviously not the same, but maybe since he cheated he is feeling like you dont want him? BPD does not always make sense and often doesnt follow logic or truths.

I am not sure If that is your case at all but with the text you saw, maybe he is testing limits?

It seems he is invested in your relationship and does not want to lose it. Just trying to test and see what he can get away with and keep it? What happens when you put firm limits? Like I do not want a divorce and I expect you to only have sex with me?

I do not understand why his therapist doesnt want to talk to you. Did he not allow it? Maybe ask your husband to involve you in a session?

Anyways if you ever want to just talk feel free to PM me.

Hi, Hopeful,

I was just browsing through board to find your post when I found your reply to mine. I read your story few days ago, and it just stuck with me, sadly, so much in common in our stories.

I miss those times when it was only porn :d Was easy days :DI hope for you it will not escalate into something more. I guess men in general sees sex differently than women, but with BPD it gets more complicated. It is the way my husband acted when he was getting negative answer. Like it is the end of the world. He would get upset. Would still insist. I would feel so guilty. And scared that every touch and kiss has to end in sex. I just need to feel save and loved.

I don't know if him bringing up divorce was test or fear of abandonment. All the readings about BPD would suggest that. But he also has this inner conflict, where he wants to be with men. And other women. So it is mixed issue which makes it hard for me to really understand what is going on.

People here helped me to realise that I am not ready for open marriage. When I made it clear for him that I am not ok with it, he fell into deep depression. He likes to have options, even if he is not going to use them. Me being firm on that topic was hard for him. And me. Depression is contagious. He still brought divorce after that, because of his urges, I guess. I don't know. Untill I said I can’t live like that, if he is not sure about divorce we should set the deadline, long enough to get heads clear. I know he still have doubts but he haven't brought the subject back (since July).

I have looked at doctors backgrounds here too. To find DBT specialist around here is really hard. I would settle for good CBT doctor as first he needs to be cured from his depression. Psychologist he is seeing now, supposed to be CBT... .But his sessions now is like that: he talks, they listen. In the end psychiatrist tells what’s wrong with him and that there is lot of work to do. The end. He got homework 2 times: letter to his parents, and list of his values... .So how to find better CBT specialist?
I am new to therapies, had no clue of kinds there were until few months ago. But reading "Feeling good" I got idea of how session should go. It is active conversations with intention to show errors of thinking (useful for most of us) and lot of homework. I believe, for him it would be useful to go therapy twice a week. Intensive work. Current doctors thinks he doesn't need more than twice a month and it is their job to put him in stressful situations so he would deal with them himself. Isn't he in therapy because he doesn't know how to deal with it? Teach him! So now there is a chance he will get new doctors. Fingers crossed. Also docs said they might put him to hospital again.

My guess why psychiatrist doesn't want to talk to me is because it involves me. Whether or not he wants to be with me. Also he is strange doctor. Old fashioned? He said it is illegal. Ad least that is what my husband told me.

In some thread, someone said that kid would be happy if mom is happy. It is true, but it is not as simple as that. Kids needs both parents. I read somewhere that parents’ divorce is bigger stress than parents fighting. Something due to routine, they are used to arguing, they accept it as normal. Divorce is change and abandonment. So it is a lot to think. For me I guess it is important how he will manage his emotions.


Hopefull, I happy to meet you and you too can PM me any time.

Kisses,
DW

Almost one week that I am back.

Yesterday morning there was a situation that I didn't handle well. With my D3 we woke up very nicely, very happy moments until husband comes from toilets.
H: D3, do you love me?
D3: A bit. Not much.
H. Why?
Me: Because you ask.
H: No. At night, she said she didn't love me. Multiple times. (He had really dark face and seemed deeply upset by that.)
Me: you dreamt it.
H: No, she did.
H: Do you love me?
D3: A bit. Not much.
H: Why?
D3: Because I am little.
Me: you can't ask her that. And you can't be upset because of that. She is 3.
And so on. I was angry.
Ten minutes later I realised I should just told him something like that: Oh, It must feel bad to hear that, but you know she doesn't mean it. She doesn't really get the meaning.
He left upset.

So I still react automatically. Coming back was ok. My D3 was got sick on second plane, and was sick all night. Vomited few times. Husband didn’t wake up when I called for help. Pills. I didn't get upset. Just took care of her. Next day I found bathtub was all black and her bath things all dirty. I discovered that when I wanted to take my bath while he played with D3. Instead of some relaxation, I got bathroom scrubbing. When I went to look for product to clean under the think in the kitchen, I was met by the spider webs, It was well guarded. Didn't get upset. Husband just asked: was it so bad? He was surprised. He didn’t see how filthy it was... .I discovered one drawer under sink was full of water, my lady stuffs ruined. Didn't get upset. Just informed husband to check on it. Toilet was dirty. He said he didn't have money for cleaning product. Dishes was washed but kitchen was a mess. Earlier that day I cleaned the entire floor, as there were grass everywhere: bathroom, bedrooms kitchen... .I didn't get upset. He said when he cuts grass it gets stuck to his shoes... .Grass is cut only in the middle, he wouldn't move anything to cut grass under. It doesn't look good. Bushes around our yard are becoming trees. Still not upset.
I did get upset when on Saturday he was in easily irritated mood. Got angry for nothing. When he saw a mosquito on the mirror and thought it was good idea to hit as strong as he could. With his palm. Next to D3 bed... .While she was almost sleeping. Then on Sunday he complains of a mess. Look how we live. It is not good for her. It depresses me. I couldn’t help but say that I cleaned apartment before leaving. He said yes, it was his fault.
We spent 4 days together, and I was calm mainly. First few days I wanted to make some connection. Like put head on shoulder while watching "Better call Soul", but after his angry day (which he admitted and he didn't like to feel that way) I feel distant. I do what I have to do and expect nothing. For now. Yesterday he came back in a good mood being nice and I didn't feel friendly towards him. I just tried to be polite. I guess, for me it will take time to heal from all things that happened.

D3 is very happy to be home, she is super happy to see dad. But she is also ok with him going to work, she is calm. First day she wouldn’t let kitty go. It peed in her bed just before sleep time... .Too much love for kitty. I understand kitty, but peeing in bed is off my limits. I can't handle that too. I don't feel friendly even to the kitty. It his cat now. It is afraid of us.

Oh one thing he said maybe on Friday. That I shouldn't worry, his urges are gone, for few days he didn't satisfy himself. Maybe due to his medics. Will see how it goes.

I just realised why he came back happy yesterday…He got payed. Will see if it is 0 in a week…He still insist he got it under control.


DW

But I have to tell you that sentences containing "but" tend to be invalidating. But it is even worse, you are telling him what he knows.

But I'm sure you can do better  

The trick is to think what you want to say and then to edit it. The editing step is crucial. First get out what your instinct tells you - not point fighting it. Some people have a tendency to say "but". I know, don't ask me why  :(. But it is really critical to realize that "but" is negating and can easily lead to invalidation or twisting or injecting our judgement. "But" is almost as bad as "why?" which is another trigger for turning tables and asking the other to justify themselves. So when you instinct is done you take a step back and edit it. Now that I got all my but's out I'm ready to give it a try:

The editing process is real work and takes effort. It is there where our learning happens which ultimately enables us to react better in real time under pressure.

Thank you an0ught, it is very helpful. You are right, but is invalidating. You make it look so easy, why didn't I come with it. It is like magic what you did with words. Truth is, it doesn't come to my mind on the spot. Or even now. I failed few more conversations. Once he started talking about how he feels indifferent, numb, he know he needs to be for D3, but he doesn't feel it. All this while waiting in the line in supermarket... .So I smiled and said he always choses odd places and time for such conversations. And then I just let it out. That it is his medic making him feel numb, that doctors won't help him, hospital will not help if he doesn't work on himself. Pushed him to admit he didn't do the mood exercise that doctor gave him in the beginning of therapy and got info that doctors don't try to say anything to him, it is not their job. They are just done with him. I just made him more depressed. I push and in the end he feels worthless, bad. But no matter what I say in the end he says it is all his fault, he is bad.

On another occasion he admitted he was feeling bad at work and if he was not going to hospital, he would ask for stay at home leave from work. Reason? His colleague doesn't talk to him anymore, she doesn't admit he is ill, she is dead to him, he is dead to her. He even talked about it to his boss... .
I feel she has personality problems herself, I told him that. And I don't believe he won't talk to her anymore. He swore he is done. Not first time. I also told that clearly she means a lot to him, if them not talking makes him want to avoid work. I try not to think about it. I am not in school anymore; I don't need Mexican soap opera dramas at home. They both need help and they shouldn't be friends. Period. I even wondered if he wants to go to hospital to show her that he is ill. Like last time.

He asked to be admitted to hospital, which old docs happily agreed. He went there and they admitted him only because his doc asked; after interview, docs there didn't think he needed hospitalisation. He went to public hospital this time. Nothing like first one. He got room with someone to who Jesus promised Harvard and immortality, and who prays all night long. There are real crazy people seeing things, and he got so scared that he started reading "Feeling good" that he was postponing for few months. Anyway, hospital agrees he needs help, but they offered to come there twice a week. Problem is, we don't have money again. It is hour away from home. Bus and 2 trains. Pricy. He told that to them. He asked to be moved to private facility but it is unlikely to happen. He will see doctors again in 1 hour.

Anyway. Money problem. He went to bank to see why he couldn't take cash the day je was leaving for hospital. He was informed he had -300. 600 was reserved by insurance. He cancelled that and asked insurance to wait for it. They agreed to take just half this month, which leaves us with 0. Till 23-24 October... .Not first time. (I have 60 to pay for D3 preschool class on Mondays (she loved it, I don't want to cancel it) and 100 for food, I have freezer full of meat and some pumpkins stocked in the kitchen. I also have some money left on my account, but it is very limited money. I am looking for online jobs to feel more stable.) While in bank, he texted me. And I asked to get those bank records. He didn't. Back home I asked him if he did, he got so frustrated, sensitive, defensive: I am trying running all over… I get, he is going to hospital, stress and all. Except not. He gets this way each time when I talk money, ask for those records. Since July. Each time I believe it is going to be fine because before moving we were ok. Very ok. We didn't count for food, plane tickets, toys, clothes, random trips, airBNB and such, we were not rich but we were ok. Moving was tough. We had to pay two rents. Got new bed, sofa. He took loan of 6000 for that. With lower rent + loan we pay the same as for old apartment. Car rental fees caught up with us on June.  And insurance that he paid on July at once instead of paying it over 3 month. On August he lost 1000 in casino. September was supposed to be just, he gave some money to me as I was staying away, and it was short for him. I thought if we were together, we would be fine. So brings us to this month. On Saturday he says everything is payed and he has 2000 left, so he buys chips and stuff. I buy meet to freeze and vegies that can stay long time. He assured all is good but I had hard time to believe. It should be fine, thinking logically, we should have enough money. But we don’t. Somewhere there is miscalculation. And I'd like to see the records. I don't believe he is hiding something, I think he is just frustrated, that there is no money. I don't know how to talk to him. How without setting him off without all the buts that is in my mind I ask him to get those records?

-I understand that it is scary not to have money, how about we do our budget together. Maybe we have some subscription we don't need (he just got Netflix, we can live without that).

How do I formulate this conversation?

He get defensive and I back off but it can't last. Now he wants to sell car. I said no. I need to see budget. I am at lost here. Should I be firm and insist? Any suggestions?

 
DW

Hey BPD family,

Few things to share.
First, he gave me logins to the bank, I was right, one click and you have all the records... .And there is no mystery there. In one week, we've spent 1000... .For almost nothing. I spent some for necessary groceries but the rest... .Gone in the thin air... .I have his card now. We have to be careful. Also we got some bills for doctors from beginning of the year and all the rest taxes. It is going to be tough. I need to do more calculation, but I think we can spend even less for everyday needs. I hope he will be able to accept that we can't spend now. He seems willing to do that, but it stresses him a lot.

Second, Doctor in hospital wants to meet with me. That's big. I am even stressed about it. I am very insecure and fragile, and I am afraid I won't be able to rest calm. And I need to show that I am ok and I can take care of our girl. According to my husband, doc wants to see how things are at home, talk about what I can do to make him feel better at home, answer my questions. I don't know what questions I have. Is there hope? Hope for what? I guess my main concern is how much of his sexual desires is BPD and how much it is his true nature. When he says, he wants to sleep with others I should not take it personally, validate and stick with my boundary. Or should I let him free, bisexuality is something he needs to embrace in order to get better. How much likely that once he gets rid of his depression, he will be like he was all those 15 years I know him, or this train is gone. How serious are his suicide thoughts, what else is he diagnosed with? I don't know if we all be together or I will meet doc in private, that would change what I can ask, wouldn't it?
The meeting is tomorrow. Any suggestion on what I should address to doctors or what I should expect would be highly appreciated, I am really nervous. I got ticket with money we don't have (I did little translation for a friend, it should cover the trip), I need to benefit from this meeting as much as possible. Who knows when someone will agree to talk to me again.

Anxious,
DW

He just gave me to read a report from hospital in which it is written that after I got the news about his sexuality and attraction our couple went into big conflict. And that after he had slept with a patient, I left to my country for a month without talking at all. It is complete bs.

I was nothing but supportive. I used my fingers to go to his whole. I don’t mind, he like it and he did stuff for me. He enjoyed it at first till it made him miss males more. He asked for divorce. I considered open marriage, I saw he was suffering. He slept with a female, I wasn't angry, by the time I had read enough about BPD to understand his actions. I was surprised that it was female. Open marriage off table. We went to Paris, we had sex. He asked for divorce again. And again when we were back. And some time later. He talked about suicide few times during all this time. And when he asked one more time for divorce I said yes, next day he said no, he didn't want it. We agreed on deadline to see if us can work. I left for planed holiday (rooms where booked on April). And we kept in touch every day. My coming back depended on my dentists as I decided to get implant on advise of doctors. And I came back.

He says he didn't tell we were in no contact, just that he wasn't sure if I come back.

Why doctors wrote that? Is it what he is telling them, or they just typed fast to be done with it?

It hurt me. I had panic attack I was nothing but supportive all the time.

hi desperate.wife,

i can see why reading that would upset you. it sounds like things may have gotten crossed up.

how are you feeling today? any update?

Hey desperate.wife

Read some of what you read.

I have nothing of substance to add, and others here are far better suited to guide you throught this. But I'd like to say that I really admire you for your commitment and love for this man and I hope things go well

Thank you once removed and Beneck for stopping by  It means a lot.

How things are now? One day at a time. I asked him about wrong details in the rapport, as it also said that it was he asking for new doctor, not that doctor was done with him. He said they misunderstood him, he tried to explain but they still think it is him changing doctor. He sounded a bit irritated. I don't know. I still don’t know if I should address this to the doctors. Is it important what is written there?

After hospital, it was few strange days. Then the nurse came to check up on him and go to the doc together. It was nice to have someone to listen. My husband was denying we had money problems, so she asked me what I thought. I told that, yes we did and I couldn’t get my husband to see that for months. But by then, I had already all bank statements and bank card in my disposition. So I said we could try to manage better our budget. She also came back next week. I expressed my concerns that he couldn't relax. She offered to talk to his doc about it. He says it won't help, because it is all about breathing. It doesn’t work for him. Nurse thinks that he can't let go, and it’s a problem. Anyway, I have started to listen meditation before sleeping; he has to listen too  And he tries to do it too. He tries. After first meeting with nurse, he said I was holding things from him. Like not telling him about money but telling nurse and doctors... .Before second meeting with nurse, he was stressing about money, and he came to me and we talked through it, step to step.

He was on heavy medication and was going to bed at 7 pm. Could sleep till 8-9 am. He felt indifferent, felt no need for psychiatrist. He was trying to be here for us. It started feeling like home again. His dosage was lowered and he sleeps less, felt sometimes like he enjoyed some activities. We played board games, danced and did gym on our girl orders, went to town together. Like real happy family. Sometimes I see that he forces. Especially last few days. Maybe less medics makes him feel more stressed, less calm. But he is less on his phone. We did 2 hours walk the other day and he was there with us, not with his phone  I just need to keep reminding myself not to expect anything. It is easy to get expecting him to do this and that while he seems better. No expectations, no disappointments. I am learning to enjoy the good and not be upset when he is not up to something. We can do ok with my girl, just two of us.

No intimacy yet. But he did touch my boob. In the evenings, he is out so... .But he talks as if he would want. He hadn't watch porn or did anything since his dosage got increased, month or so.

One thing bothers me though. I am saving very cent I can. I am not buying cheese for my breakfast and no books I want for my creative zen writing workshop. For me always first thing is to buy better food for our D3, something nice to her. I didn't buy anything for me, but he just picks up big cola (for later, and then one can from the fridge for now. Come on. And he is saying he is not going to fight over 70 centimes and that he had needs... .Made me so upset. (he also bought 2 books 20-30 each last month with credit card that we had to pay this month and all other payments with credit card he doesn’t even know what for). I have needs too. A bottle of water fell in to dirty water on the street and I was really thirsty but I didn’t buy another one. I could wait until we get home. But not him. Anyway, other time he just wants new game. And when he wants something he becomes this cat in boots from Shrek. With those eyes. Smile. So innocent. Impossible to say no. He does it every Christmas; how he needs new phone, new computer, new something. Always convincing reasons, always something that will change his life (and mine). Instead of putting money for saving, he spends it on technology. I never win. Now the game. It is a small thing. And I gave in. He promised not to by weed this month in exchange. Still buys cigarettes. So yes, this still can get me. At least I put aside safely money for my workshop (once a month but full day), D3 preschool and some for my implant (need to save 600 until spring).

Today he was more irritated. Less patient. I asked about it. He said, he was stressed. More than usually these days. Apparently, he forgot his medication this morning. He was stressed about going back to work (in two weeks). And staying home. Car needing new tires. Then he expressed his disappointment that he is stuck either feeling stressed or feeling nothing. I tried to point it to him that it is not true. He can work on stress, learning to relax and working with docs, there is other options, and it is up to him to chase them. One thing in rapport they got right, he is expecting miracles from doctors, that they should fix him. His face was gloomy; he said he was not feeling right, he was hoping to get away with playing. I told him to play that it would help. Build a castle, I say. So he played, did all the exercises our D3 had imagined, and even prepared her bed and stayed with her while she was in bath. And at first I was like, let it go, I’ll do it. Because I am trying to make some order in toys and he never knows where things goes, but then I thought he is helping, he is trying. It is mess anyway.

It is written in the rapport that I should see a therapist too. I cried in the of the meeting with doctors in hospital, well just couldn't hold tears. They think i am on the red line. They haven't seen me few months ago! I am much better now. I am sensitive person, so sure i cried. I even didn't put any make up, I knew I would cry. I am doing my best to stay stable. That creative writing workshop helped, even if it was once so far). Every exercise starts with meditation, and it was first time I did it not from books or internet but with someone guiding. It changes so much. I don't do it every day yet, but if I stress I do it, and I write sometimes. On teacher's recommendations I started guided meditation, would fall asleep way before the end :d I do mood gym (not regularly though) and I’m following coursera class for everyday creativity. It is very interesting even though I am way behind. One of the tasks was really helpful in regards of communicating with BPD and anyone really. It goes like this:

Do you defer your judgment? We would like you to take the test!  Spend the next 24 hours monitoring your judgment, and see things from different points of view. Keep your eyes open for an idea that you don’t like or that you love and consciously defer your judgment around it for a few minutes.   Now it is important to realize that you are not agreeing to the idea, you are  simply giving yourself the space to explore all aspects of the idea.  Who knows?  You might find something fascinating.  And when you are offered something different or unexpected, practice relaxing, listening, and understanding. Share your experience deferring judgment below.

It is very hard one for me. In regards of my husband. It was much easier task that deadline was today and I saw it this morning:
Instructions

Use an inexpensive light switch plate, a fork, a light bulb, a wine glass… the choice is yours! Use your creativity to decorate your mini masterpiece. Once you’ve decorated and personalized it, upload a picture of your mini-masterpiece! Then complete the short reflection about the assignment. 

I had 30 minutes and I panicked, I won't do anything on time. But I ended up transforming old pot from basil to a pen holder, decorated with brown thread and glittery glue. Nothing impressive but hey, 30 minutes  Much easier than defer my judgment about my husband’s actions.

I started to read "Your Second Life Begins When You Realize You Only Have One". I am on the quest on emptying my home... .I like to keep things and I get demotivated seeing piles of clothes and toys everywhere... .But I am moving forward. Little by little, I want to read book further, but I won't till I get my home clean and nice
I keep reading "Feeling good".

Well I got carried away... .

How are things today? Better  Will see tomorrow.

(is there a class how to make short posts?)

well, certainly its important in that it was upsetting you to read. im not sure though, what offering your version of events or correcting the record would do.


can you catch me up on this a bit, what led up to the lack of intimacy, and how long has the relationship been without it?

what is he on medication for, and for how long?


one thing ive learned too many times is that you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.

sometimes, our partners need to just let off steam and feel heard, and when we can give them that, they really thrive off of the support, and build up that desire to affect change in their lives.

have you explored the power of asking validating questions?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

I am thinking it can mislead his treatment or something. They are saying he wants to change doctor and sees it as symptom, like he can't commit, needs control or something, they were using this as example in hospital meeting. By then I was too tired to ask why they are saying it is him wanting to change doctor. And he was not correcting them either. I am confused what he is really saying, and what he thinks he is saying.


How do I do I cut it short? ;)

Confession in January he is in love with a man, and that he hid that he was bi even from himself for 15 years. He’d like to see men if I am ok with that.
Great sex between us. I am enough for him.
Uncontrollable sex needs. Behaves like an addict.
Demands for open marriage.
His doctor thinks that he talks too much about sex and wants to talk about something else.
Suddenly lost desire for me. 2 attempts to have sex. He didn’t enjoy.
In hospital, he slept with a female patient.
We went on a trip. We had sex, he didn’t enjoy.
We had sex once since then. He liked it. It was horrible for me. He didn’t care about me at all. Just about him. That was beginning of July. Since then, nothing.
At hospital, he told that he still had no desire for me. But with those new medics he had no desire at all since mid September.


Depression, help sleep. He also has medic for stress. He has to take it when stress comes at work or home. Max 4 a day. He was taking more. It turns him into zombie and he remembers nothing of what he does when he takes it. But he stopped taking it in exchange of weed (legal one without drug substance). He is on medication since March I'd say. It was updated few times. He thinks medication will cure him. When they change something, he is all good for few days, then he goes back being depressed.


I know. But he was so sad, I just want to be supportive to show him other options, I know it is up to him to use them.


I see now I should have handled that in different way.
I feel stuck... .
It must feel bad to feel stuck? I am sorry you feel that way?

The validation is hard for me to practice with my husband. With my D3 I do it all the time... .
I have read about validation, but I haven't seen that one with questions! Thank you. I'll try to use them.

Yesterday an anger incident happened. Our kitty peed in D3 bed. Twice. We have already changed her bed: she was growing it out ant cat made it litter box. Even pooed in it.al. So, I got angry, for peeing again. I did what my mom used to do when I was little, I put kitty's nose in the pee and tapped once or twice on the head. Not proud. I get it is very wrong and won't help. She is upset with D3 chasing her all the time, she is stressed. My husband was angrier; he didn't want to let her go, kept punishing. I had to ask him let it go. I arranged sleeping solution for our daughter while he was cleaning mattress. Then I was putting her to bed while he played video game and cat pooed behind his back on the pillow and made pipi twice... .In our bed, on his side. He got the cat, and I heard the taps nonstop, he was so angry that I had to shout to him to stop it. Later he told he almost killed the cat. We would get rid of the cat. I don't deny, the thought crossed my mind, but you don't get rid of pet when something is wrong. We have to try to find solution. He went for smoke, I went to see kitty locked up in bathroom, she was so scared. I cried. Because I don't need problems with kitty, I have enough. Kitty is supposed to bring peace and happiness to the home. Because he was angry, so angry. I don't know I just cried hugging kitty. He was sorry he made me cry, all I could think what if it is me or D3 that would make him so angry?  He stroked the kitty when he came back. He said he didn't like to be that angry and that we will find solution with cat as we always do. He spent some time with cat on his knees. Then he asked for meditation audio and we slept on sofa.

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