BPDFamily.com

hello all, its been a while since i've hopped on the message boards. a lot has happened since i last logged on. Heres a link to my older thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=324264.0

My ex contacted me through her friends phone as a result of her crazy controlling ex having all of her passwords to everything, and sees everything she does. we met up, had a good night, talked everything out. she told me her episodes and splitting is 1000 times worse as a result of her ex using her episodes against her and making her out to be crazy to everybody including her family. she disassociated for a couple months after we broke up. the ex used her to the maximum extent. controlled her social life, she paid for groceries, rent, bills, him and his kids moved themselves into her house, she paid for their things, his child support, his court fees, a new truck, etc. we both agreed we still loved each other but she needs to heal before we can engage romantically again. I've spent a lot more time with her this last month. told her before she was my lover, she was my best friend, so we are starting a foundation from their. she is struggling with severe depression, anger and anxiety along with her splitting. she also is not eating like she should be. e  we have not had any sex, kissing, hand holding or anything like that. only kissing her forehead a passionate hugs between us. i have slept in bed with her a few times, at her permission. at times, she gets very romantic with me, and then when i try to reciprocate that back to her, she says im obligating her and pressuring her when shes not ready for anything yet and she wants to be alone right now. a few times ive been with her, she doesnt say a word and anytime i try to talk to her, she snaps at me. she tells me that anger is her outlet for anxiety, and she doesnt know how to stop feeling that way towards me. she says knows she loves me, she just cant unlock the feelings for me right now because shes so damaged. the last three days, shes been very short with me over text. i asked her if she'd want to do dinner and a movie at the house, and she said "maybe next week. im enjoying my time alone. i havent had that since the breakup."  I just want to do this right, and help her heal at the same time. Some days, i get the girl i know and love, and somedays its her splitting. She will never take medication. i have told her of my friend at work who has BPD and did therapy and is doing well. so hopefully shell agree to do that in the future. I just want to help her get better and get the love of my life back without rushing her or making her feel pressured.

big picture: little has changed.

she hadnt healed/grieved her relationship when she got with you. some of that manifested with you when you were together. her relationship played out (thats what has changed) but shes clearly not healed/grieved it yet, and is not ready to fully commit to you. she has stated this clearly (which helps). take her at her word.

from what i read, she needs this to evolve very slowly, she needs a lot of space, and its really best to go with her flow and her pace. when you try to advance, she shuts it down.

dont push. if shes distant, dont take that as an invitation to push for more. she will see it as neediness (which she cannot, does not want to, deal with right now) and balk.

slow down. go with her flow. give her lots of space.

can you do that?

Whiteknight, I remember your posts so well and I'm happy to hear from you and hear that you're back on talking terms :)

I agree with Once Removed, if she's asking for time alone, I think it's best to give her space. Let her come to you and be there for her if she does. Check in, but don't pressure. Empathize as much as possible.

All the best to you :)

Faithful

this is why, and i cant stress it enough, its so important to keep rebuilding your life and have some independence.

makes you less anxious in the in between moments. makes everything about the relationship more organic and natural, and enjoyable.

take it from a guy who spent all day and night with my ex. its just not sustainable. eventually youll do anything for some space.

You’re absolutely right. I just got caught up in her presence again. Just happy she’s back in my life. And that I have another chance with her if I give her the time, space, and support she needs

So last week for us was really good. Spent time with her and her family for the 4th of July. She’s been working nonstop without a day off for 10 days straight now. 9-7. She’s been very short with me the last few days. She told me she knows why she has an issue being around me at time. Because I make her feel obligated. Because I post pics and get her things (she does the exact same thing). I only got her gifts because her birthday is this weekend and I’ll be out of town. I only posted the SAME pic she posted. One day she’s in love with me and spewing all this couple stuff to me, then the next day when I reciprocate that same energy, she says I’m pressuring her or obligating her. Do I just leave her be unless she contacts me from now on?

not necessarily. i think the short answer is you let her lead, you just keep your responses a little bit more dialed back.

for example, if she pulls you toward her (spews couple stuff to you), meet it, but instead of meeting it with 100% or 50%, meet it with more like 30%. if shes short or distant, pull back, let her come to you on her terms.

the key is to let things get a little more stable and consistent. if shes all over you emotionally or physically one day, and you return it softly and with no pressure, it may grow to where shes a bit more all in and consistent over time.

i dont mean give her silent treatment or the cold shoulder or pout. i mean for example, if your instincts tell you do one thing, just maybe dial that "thing" back about 30%.

make sense?

Got it. So when she’s short with me just give her space and don’t respond? Or don’t message her until she messages me?

if shes short or distant with you yes, back off. dont ignore her, no.

also keep in mind why she might be "short". does she sound annoyed with you and is hinting she wants to be left alone, or is she just busy?

if shes working heavily all day, contact with anybody could be a pain in the butt.

Hey everyone. Me and my ex partner have been talking and have been on good terms lately. Strictly just friends at the moment, but see a relationship down the line once shes healed. I spent the last two nights with her as I’m 13 hours away now working a job for the next 2 1/2 weeks. I’m trying very hard not to bother her all the time, but I sure do miss her. She’s probably busy enough at home, I don’t want to become an annoyance to her since my messaging volume has gone up since I’m traveling, and hers has stayed the same. All day yesterday she wouldn’t message me back, and today, she has, but very minimal. When she goes quiet on me, my anxiety kicks in and I automatically think the worst. I’m annoying her, she’s getting tired of me “pressuring” her romantically, she’s talking to someone else, etc. of course, I had to leave town on her birthday, so I spent the two days leading up to it with her. It was a great two evenings, now I’m just up here missing her. All I want to do is talk to her. I’m trying to hold back as much as I can. But when I’m there waiting for HER to initiate contact, it seems like it never comes. Maybe I should just hold out and wait till she contacts me. Think part of it is I’m going stir crazy up here cause work doesn’t start till next week. Like I said, we’ve been doing great together figuring out each other’s boundaries, and being more open and honest with one another. I’m just ready to get back to her

I’m trying to be strong and resist asking her what’s wrong, but she is literally being so distant and short with me at the moment. She isn’t responding to any of my messages, taggings, or things I send her. She just opens them and doesn’t respond. What should I do?

not keep doing it 

youve got to read the situation. pressuring her pushes her away. her pulling away triggers your anxiety and tends to make you push more (and her pull away further). ultimately, to the detriment of the relationship or what youre trying to accomplish (reconnecting). before we can make things better, we have to stop making them worse.

the ex relationship was important to her. she got hurt, she got into a relationship with you and hadnt fully grieved. she gave it another try, it didnt work out, and shes trying now to fully grieve and heal. whiteknight, that requires a lot of space and zero pressure. pressure doesnt feel safe or comforting, but the opposite. it pushes engulfment buttons on anybody. the warning signs are loud and clear.

i get the anxiety, i really do. im king when it comes to it. but youve got to find outlets other than her for it (this board can be one).

I understand. Its not that I’m not taking the advice given to me, it’s just my mind plays tricks on me using my anxiety as an outlet to keep pushing on her. I haven’t talked to her since yesterday (she only responded to one of my texts) I talked to one of her friends today and asked her advice, and she said she’s been distant with her too. I guess she had a falling out with one of her good friends and is taking it hard. And I guess she has a ton of paperwork today. So I asked her if I should just give her her space and she said yeah, that’s probably best. And she’ll get ahold of you when she’s ready. So do I just go radio silent until she initiates with me?

you should back off the contact and give her space, yes.

but think bigger picture and longer term than "leave her alone until she contacts me". because when she does contact you, you dont want to respond with too much and smother her or project anxiety... .now or ever. generally speaking, whats attractive to women (or men) is confidence. neediness, clinging, over pursuing, all of these things cast doubt and suggest to a woman that the attachment is not a secure one.

confidence is security in yourself and the situation, that she needs space, respecting that space, being strong and giving it to her, and making do. she will tend to come to you when she is ready and willing, but if you answer that by pushing and over pursuing, it pushes a person back into "give me space" mode, or worse.


anxiety needs healthy outlets. forgive me, im sure i have asked, but are you seeing anyone (doctor, therapist) about it? do you have outlets to release it?

Right, I wish she would just tell me she’s got a lot going on right now and needs space. That’s totally fine with me. It’s just when she drops off for a few days or something and doesn’t tell me, I get anxious. I’m currently seeing a therapist and psychiatrist for my anxiety. On medication at the moment, which hasn’t seen boasting results thus far. It’s definitly put a stop to my anxiety attacks, but I’m still as anxious as I once was. My outlet to release, is going to the gym. However, being out of town, I won’t have access to my gym for 2 1/2 weeks.

sometimes it helps to talk back to our anxiety, so to speak.

to first spot it. to realize that it may urge us to act, or not to act, and to recognize it for what it is. it starts to lose its power.

i have historically been pretty anxious with/toward women in my life. at some point it clicked with me that hey, i may feel anxious, i cant really help that, but i can help whether i let it drive my actions. i cant tell you a single time that acting on my anxiety has ever been productive. with the opposite sex, ive found it to be 100% counter productive, even self sabotaging. so if its only going to achieve the exact opposite of what i want (in this case, what you want is for her reach out more consistently and push toward a relationship with you, but what is being achieved is pushing her away) then im not gonna do it, right?

i know, easier said than done; it takes some practice. i think if you back off, youll find she reaches out more. i think that if she reaches out more, and you dont respond by over pursuing, or otherwise in an anxious way, but are available, and safe, fun, and strong, youll find her attraction starts to grow. and then things will start to click with you, and youll get it.

living with my discomfort/anxiety taught me to get used to it, and to know that it will pass. it was a leap of faith to start, but when i saw results, i was motivated, and anxiety began to lose its grip and had far less power over me.

You’re absolutely right. I messaged her last night out of weakness and she sent me a couple messages and that was it. I haven’t talked to her all day today so I’m gonna try to keep holding out until she reaches out to me. She posted a pic today on her insta that read, “ canceling plans is ok. Staying home to cook is ok. Disappearing for a bit to get your life together is okay. It’s called self-care.” So maybe she just needs a breather from everyone. Her friend told me her workload at work has been heavy. So I’m gonna do it. Coming here and hearing your advice actually alleviates my anxiety. Hearing this advice from someone who is experienced in these situations, it gives me hope that I can do this right.

sure you can! as i said, this place can be a great outlet for that anxiety, and as someone prone to obsession, anxiety, and over pursuing, im happy to help.


look at it this way, if it helps:

she needed to go through a recycle and try things again in with the ex in order to let go. the advice members gave you at the time was to give lots of space, and that you had to let it play out... .and that it likely would. you kept in touch, but gave it the space to play out, and it did.

now she needs the space and distance to play out her grief. when someone is grieving, they are inherently and rightfully emotionally unavailable. if she were all over you and tried to bypass her grief with you, it might feel nice but would almost certainly end disasterously for you. so its really in your best interest to let her grieve and heal and reach emotional availability on her terms.

i can also tell you that if i were grieving and someone was pursuing me, i would feel invalidated, disrespected, and id be resentful. thats the last thing you want. set that boundary on yourself. give her room to miss you and wonder about you a bit as she heals. just be there (again without pursuing) when she does. its in your interest to be seen as safe, comfortable, and fun, not pressure.

one thing i told myself when i desperately wanted to reach out to my ex is that i could reach out any time i wanted. its not as if i wasnt allowed to speak to her. however, it was far from in my best interest, so id wait. thoughts like that helped.

I feel like I’ve been doing t wrong this whole time since we reconnected. When we first did, she was all over me with I love yous and the happy go lucky girl I fell in love with. As time went on, she got more and more depressed. All the while, I was running off that same energy she was giving me when we first reconnected again. Her family knows we are talking again, and they couldn’t be happier. Actually went to her family’s gathering for the 4th of July. She told her dad that we were talking again, and he said oh good I like that man. He then asked if we were together and she said no just friends right now and that we weren’t going to date for a little bit. She’s always giving me the talk about pressuring her and making her feel obligated. I feel like garbage that I’ve been putting my needs ahead of hers and may be coming off as pressuring when she needs to grieve. This was never my intent honestly... .hopefully by showing her I have the strength to give her space, it’s not too late for us... I was thinking about sending her some flowers in the next few days to suprise her just cause. (Her birthday was he day I had to leave outta town. Does this sound like an okay idea? Maybe it would brighten her day.

So, some things went down last night. As I stated before, we both love to cook and her business page is a vegan food blog. When I went vegan, I started posting pictures on my page. She texted me, “I guess I’ll give up on cooking since you seem to have it all figured out.” I told her I only posted pics because of the 2-3 people who have came up to me and have told me they were going to change their health and lifestyle for the better. And that I wasn’t trying to mimic her page. I love to cook, and I love to cook with her. Since she decided to blow up about that, I went ahead and I asked her why she dropped all contact with me as soon as I left for out of state work for 2 1/2 weeks. Her response was, “what the F***. DROP YOU? DROP YOU? How many times did I say I didn’t want anything? You put so much f**** pressure on me! I said I didn’t want anything!” I responded, “You said you didn’t want a a romantic relationship right now. I get it. You must heal. I backed off. I’m still your f**** friend. You wanted to start again at the ground level getting back to being best friends first. Because when you don’t care for yourself, care to live anymore,  care to go on, there ARE people around you who do. Who want to listen. Who want to hear you vent. Who want to treat you with respect you deserve. Who want to love you.” She said, “I never asked anyone to do any of that **** for me so don’t throw it in my f*****  face what you did without me asking.” I said, “I’m not boasting I’m not throwing it in your face, but I don’t need your permission to be f**** kind to you.” She said, This is why I don’t open up. This is why I don’t let people in.” I said, You’re not opening up. You’re staying in the same negative spot you’ve been in. I want you to open up. It’s mandatory for growth. You must be vulnerable to move forward. No it’s not comfortable, but it IS necessary. And if you had to be vulnerable, why can’t you trust the one person who sees you inside and out, and loves you regardless of your flaws? I could give a sh**  less about your beauty and everything external about you. I see you for your soul.” and she didn’t respond. Because she knew it to be true. I love her more than anything in this world, but I will not let her walk over me like this. I had to put my foot down and stop acting as her punching bag. I texted her this morning and said, “Good morning. Hope you didn’t take my words harshly yesterday. I understand where you’re coming from. I just want you to understand where I’m coming from. You’re my best friend. Hope the babies(the fur babies) are doing good, miss them. Have a good day.”

Did I handle this well? What do I do now? My friends and family say to just leave her alone. To be a ghost on social media and not post anything, that way she’s more inclined to wonder what I’m up to and initiate contact. I hope I didn’t screw things up, but I had to put my foot down. She’s so hateful to me for no reason. Through all of it, she’s still the love of my life, so I hope I didn’t ruin this.

Hello whiteknight!

Oh I really do understand how you must be feeling, those moments when you have enough and feel like you just HAVE TO speak up to not become a punching bag. I hope you are okay, I know this from myself so well!

What I think you could do better in your communication with her is not to JADE. I see you have been explaining yourself a lot. She might be so deep inside the chaos of her own feelings and pain (although the things she is so hurt about might look irrational for everyone who is not in her shoes, but that's the illness) that she can not see how hurt YOU actually are, that she just wants to feel understood and won't listen. Use the tools you find on here as much as you can. They've always just helped me since I know them.

All the best to you! I'd give her the space she needs and validate her feelings as much as possible to help her open up more again.
Some space for yourself might be needed as well - when we are so hurt we can barely react in a way that doesn't hurt our partners.

I'm just giving you my thoughts/opinion on this. Better listen to the wise souls who are more experienced than I am.
Sending support, you don't have to feel alone in this.

Thank you so much for your advice! I will try to soak up all the information here that I can. It’s just became a point, when you treat your partner like a literal queen and get nothing but hatred in return... it takes a toll on you. I just had to let her know how I felt. I love her with all of my heart. I hope I didn’t mess everything I’ve worked so hard for up.

whiteknight, i suspect that entire exchange made her feel cornered and analyzed and pressured.

the message you followed up with was an okay recovery. might have stopped some bleeding, but probably did not reverse the damage.

i agree with your friends and family. she needs a lot of space. at this point, i think its less about letting her wonder what youre up to, but showing her you can respect her and her need for space.

can you do that?

I can... .praying I didn’t mess everything up

Update, the flowers I had ordered her delivered yesterday, yet with the help of her friend, her sister, and her dad, the flowers were no where to be found. So I caved and texted her, “Hey. Had a package scheduled to send to the marina for you and it delivered yesterday. I don’t know if you’ve received it yet, I just want to make sure you get it.“
She said she didn’t receive it so I called and they are sending another upgraded replacement out next Tuesday. But ruined the suprise it was supposed to be. We chatted for a little bit and she told me she hopes I have fun while I’m visiting another state for another week and a half. I haven’t talked to her in a couple hours, but I did get more conversation out of her today than I have the whole time I’ve been away. She also posted a picture of her wearing the necklace I got her for Valentine’s Day, and another picture of the necklace I just got her. What does that mean? But She also deleted the pictures of us on her Instagram, which she always tends to do when she splits, them she’ll put them back on her profile.  I told her a Colorado trip and up to Yellowstone Park would be a fun trip(we’ve talked about doing it for her graduation trip). And she said “do it”. And I said in time. maybe for your grad trip and she said “idk. May just go alone some place for my grad trip. Or with one of her girlfriends cause she’s also graduating. I said “of course” and then sent her a playlist for us I’ve been working on cause she just got Apple Music and asked me to put music on it cause she doesn’t have the energy to do it. And she read the message but never replied. Am I getting any good signs? Should I still back off and give her room? She talked to me more today than she has in the last 5 days.

yes, back off and give her room. a lot of it. didnt she recently feel pressured by a similar gift/gesture?

remember what i said about not pouncing when she reaches out. dont over pursue. be available, be cool. but dont go all in, or worse.

Yes, this had been scheduled as a part of her birthday gift though. I’ll try my b at to play it cool. We talked a little today, just small talk. Wishing her a good day.

She hasn’t posted the pictures of us back up on her profile yet. Like I said, every time she splits, she hides them, then puts them back when she’s done. Haven’t talked to her since earlier today. The most I’ve went without talking to her was about 3 days, and she didn’t tag me, text, nothing. Why all of a sudden did this happen? Constantly talking all day to one another, then when I leave out of town, she goes ghost... will everything be back to normal when I get home? I guess I won’t approah her anymore unless she does me. I hope this is all a reflection of herself and a space thing rather than her talking to someone else. Which I doubt, but my anxiety fuels. I am staying busy though so I’m not prone to blowing her up and pressuring her. At least the past two days, I’ve got conversation out of her, which tells me she may be opening back up after that rocky conversation we had a couple nights ago.

This is the best tool to follow with any relationship. How are you staying busy? I know how bad you want to start a conversation, and feel the urgency to act and soothe your anxiety. But most of the time, giving someone room and space are works for the long term goal.

Yesterday I sent her a link on Facebook of an upcoming concert of an artist we both enjoy. She replied “sweeeeet”. I followed up with, we’ll have to try and see so and so as well!” After about an hour she replied, “why do you automatically think we are going to do all this shi*?

Caught off guard, I replied, “thought it’d be would be fun, but whatever.”

I checked last night, and she unfriended me on Facebook, not blocked. But kept me on everything else. Which doesn’t make any sense. I didn’t do anything to warrant that. I even sent her a picture through text last night I knew she’d enjoy and she hearted it. I have no idea why she would take me off Facebook though. It seems like I’m messing everything up so quickly, when that is not the outcome that I desire.

before we can improve things, we have to identify those things that we are contributing that arent helping matters, or are making them worse.

youve identified those things. what do you think spurs you to keep doing them?

Seeing her post and talk to other people that aren’t me. The flowers were delivered yesterday, she hasn’t said anything. I feel like I’m losing her. I have a feeling she’s talking to someone else... .she went from taking to me everyday all day on every platform, to not talking to me at all. I don’t know what to do... .I just want to win her back.

chasing and over pursuing are your worst enemy here.

things are reaching a breaking point whiteknight4152. she sounds deeply frustrated and resentful, at her wits end. you can respond to that with desperate moves and continue the path youve been on, and things will likely continue to go south until they reach their breaking point.

or you can switch gears and try another path. it will require a radically different approach and mindset, backing off big time, giving her a ton of space, and a real commitment to that path.

I want to switch gears. I want to be attractive, independent and confident towards her. I’m just afraid backing off big time, she’ll forget about me... .

the moves you are making (have been making) are pushing her to increasingly distance herself from you.

thats whats happening here and now.

a lot of guys do this. youre not the first. what they often fail to realize is that clingyness and neediness and desperation arent a strategy for winning someone back, they are a guaranteed strategy to push someone away.

a lot of things can happen with this strategy. at first its just off putting and unattractive. when it escalates, it feels (and becomes) disrespectful, smothering, desperate, even threatening. the natural response to that is to distance oneself. when it continues to escalate, and a person feels increasingly cornered, they will lash out, and often the next step is to completely cut off communication.

thats where youre headed. thats whats happening here and now.

members have been telling you this for a while, whiteknight. go back and read your old threads. at a certain point, something clicks, and we start to switch gears, or we continue doing what we have been doing. if youre going to continue that path, then really all we can do is be here to give you a hug when things come to their natural conclusion.

this is a key part of our article on what it takes to make it in these relationships:

im not encouraging you to leave the relationship, but its worth considering that it would be healthier and more respectful to both you and her to cut your losses and let her go than to continue chasing and over pursuing someone who is lashing out for space.

I’ve thought about it long and hard. I am not giving up. She’s the one. I’ll stay strong. I sent her a few pics of crystals I bought today and she replied “that’s beautiful” but other than that, I haven’t responded.
I’m just so confused why she hasn’t brought up the Facebook thing? She still hasn’t added me back, but still has me on everything else. I was talking to her friend last night and told her and she said”hm? Idk just give her a bit. I know you have.”

I haven’t heard from her in a few days. Still nothing new on the plant o had delivered to her. I’m trying  I stay focused with work while I’m away from her. I’ll be home next Wednesday, hopefully things can resolve when I’m able to see her. I haven’t made any contact to her in two days. Hopefully she sees me respecting her boundaries and reaches out Soon

its good to give her space.

i think this is a much bigger picture thing than just not talking to her for a few days.


when she learns, through repeated words and actions (or lack of actions) that you respect her boundaries, and sees a long term change in approach i think you will better connect.

if she reaches out, and you over pursue, it will tell her its best not to reach out.

Update... .so yesterday I talked to her best friend on the phone for a good while. She has also been cut out by her. As well as others. Her friend asked her if she needed her to come help at work on Tuesday, and she said no she was going to “meet this guy on Tuesday”... .
She has since unfollowed me on Instagram. When I noticed, I went to our messages and accidentally sent a heart emoji that is in the Instagram Dm’s, and she immediately took me off her account. I talked to her friend and she said she didn’t know anything about this “guy” or if it’s anything serious since she won’t talk to her. We both agreed that the best thing for our relationship is to not talk to her until I get home and can sit down with her, if she lets me. Apparently, she has been tearing everyone up. She made her sister cry when she came to visit because she was tearing her up about why she didn’t like her boyfriend. We genuinely think that she thinks she’s doing good by being so mean and harsh to people. We agreed that she doesn’t see cause and effects, she just sees reactions and runs with those. We’ve all tried to help her, but she doesn’t want to help herself. She told me I’m the best partner my girlfriend ever had, and she may not think she deserves it, or that something will fault because of her past. It’s all about trust and control. If anyone should be concerned about trust, it should be ME. And I forgave her. She messaged me while I was talking to her friend on the phone last night “your shoes are in. I’m not sure how to get them to you” I said, “may I call you”. She said “sure” so I called, I said hey, she said hey. And I said what’re you up to, and she said work. I said okay well I don’t want to interrupt you at work, and she’s like what do you need. And I said nothing I just haven’t talked to you hardly since i left, she said ok well I’ll call you later. And hung up. I texted her later on “call?” Because I knew I wouldn’t be able to hear her later that night if she called because I’m working so I wanted to make sure to talk to her before she fell asleep. She didn’t answer. So I just texted her “check out the moon before bed if you get the chance. Sweet dreams.” And she read it this morning. I can’t fix this 900 miles away from her. It can’t be done over the phone. It’s also not going to fix or heal, because it’s almost like she likes being miserable. She says she wants to be alone, but then goes on a date with a guy while I’m gone.  She can’t say no to others. Her friend says I know how mean she is to you. And how much you treat her like a queen anyways. But she doesn’t know how to react to good, because she’s only ever been used for her looks or money and exposed to bad relationships. But at some point, she’ll have to realize that you must trust and be vulnerable to grow. That’s just like saying I got sunburnt yesterday, I’m never going outside again. I asked her friend why she would’ve said “I’m not sure how to get them to you (limited edition shoes). She said, she probably knows you’ll think about it. And that’s why she did it. She probably is doing all of this to get a reaction out of you so she has a reason to let you go. Because right not, she has no reason for cutting any of us out or treating us bad. I showed her messages between us and she’s like everything you’re saying is so sweet, not pressuring, not smothering, but she wraps it to make you out to be the bad guy. I told her that she told me that I make her angry and give her anxiety from what I did in the past, and her friend was like you didn’t do anyThing though? She told me everything and you haven’t done anything except not stop loving her. Please, if any of you out there read this, I need help. Advice. I will not give up on this woman. She is my equal and is the love of my life. I know I have the opportunity to walk, everyone is telling me to do so. I will not. I will take care of her and love her to my last breath. If there is anything I can do to make this situation right, to get it through to her, that she needs help, that she can trust me, that she can open up and love me again, please let me know. Thank you.

lets try this:

reread this thread in entirety. take a look at the advice and observations members have given you.

can you summarize the advice youve gotten through out this process?

Give her space and time to grieve and heal. Don’t pressure. Don’t pressure harder when she shuts me out. I just don’t understand anymore. I’m at a loss here on what to do. Feels like I’m losing her 900 miles away. I just want things to heal with us.

I wrote this. Wanted to send it to her and then not pursue anymore till I get the chance to see her when I’m home.

Sometimes in life we come across the wrong people. However, once in a while the right ones come along and will never leave. I will always celebrate your brightest days, and comfort you in your darkest nights. Every night has a day. All scars can be healed. I’ll boost your dreams, challenge you, and will always believe in you. Take a breath and concentrate where you are today. Recognize your flaws, but choose to love yourself anyways. At times, you may only see your thorns, but you are undoubtedly a rose. Do not settle for stars when you deserve the galaxy. Remember, all good things take time.

so this is the advice youve received as you see it:


and your plan is to write her a heavy love letter and then try to get her to see you?

do you see where that approach is at odds with the advice?

Yes... .but I feel like if I don’t keep in contact she’ll go to someone else. Which, looks like she already did when I left for Wyoming. I get back Wednesday, hopefully she lets me see her. I still am racking my brain why she said “Your shoes came in. Im not sure how to get them to you”

Why would she say this? She obviously knows I’m going to be back soon(she doesn’t know when cause she hasn’t spoken to me). Did she say that just to make me think and play mind games? That’s what her best friend said would be the only explanation for her saying that. Her sister also messaged me and we asked how each other were. I said honestly things have been hard between me and her since I left for work. But I’ll be back Wednesday. And she said,  It's probably not what you want to hear, but I don't know if it's very fair to you to wait for my sister. It's easy for her to move forward and not really linger with someone”.

and how do you think she will react to more pressure and chasing?

whiteknight, she really wants to be left alone. i think her sister is trying to get that across. can you see how youre disrespecting that? put yourself in her shoes and ask yourself how you might react if someone you wanted distance from kept pushing.

Yes... .her sister, friends and family see how well I am to her and how much she takes advantage of my love for her and how it’s not fair to me to keep going through it while she’s in a whirlwind. I never meant to disrespect her... but I guess I am unconsciously. You think distance and space is the best scenario for me for the long game? I get home Wednesday, what do I do then? So we have multiple Pinterest boards together, our cooking, our love board, tattoo boards, and her clothes boards. Yesterday I sent her best friend a pic she would like, and she’s like “what the heck hold on” and sent me a screenshot of her sending the same pic to my gf earlier that day, a happy coincidence. I also saved it to my mental health and healing board of ours. Last night at like 2:50, I got a notification she left that board. Just that board. I asked her friend and she’s like “maybe she’s doing little things you’ll notice to say about?” And I said I could totally see, “What sucks is, she could look at that and make a connection between it in her head and shut us both out for it” since I save it to our board, and her friend sent it to her.

shes not just saying "give me space". shes screaming it.

youre saying "if i cant get to you ill go to your friends and family and post to you indirectly"

it isnt respectful. its violating her space, big time. as a result, shes blocking you and cutting off every avenue. this isnt going to end well whiteknight. ive seen members wind up with restraining orders for less.

time to switch gears?

But me posting the picture in our board and her friend sending it to her was just a happy coincidence. Yes it’s time to switch gears.
What do I do once I get home?

You do nothing. Give her space. Call an old friend, go out, play pool, shoot hoops, whatever youre into, and you have a good time.

But don’t we need to hash everything out, and why she went ghost after I left town? Why she took me off of social media when I was giving her space?

First of all i know what you are going through, it’s nothing short of hell. The anxiety, the worst case scenarios,... .its all going through your head like a maniac.

I can also relate to your story. My ex and I are also back in contact after she broke up with this other guy. She was emotionally more involved with me so during her relationship with that guy she sought contact with me again, I waited it out and sure enough that relationship ended.

First few weeks she was all over me, then the distancing started again and I can also become pushy and uncertain at times and that’s ok we all have our limits. But everytime I do it, I back off afterwards. Like last Monday, I was too needy and she suggested to take a couple weeks break. I’ve been anxious in the mean time but I leave her be.

I see a pattern with you though: you say you are going to back off and then you make contact. Your words and actions are not aligned.
Have you talked about this with your therapist?
Like Onceremoved said: this is not going to end well.

Just back off, let her come to you. You don’t have to hash anything out. She’s pulling away in every possible way (Facebook, IG, Pinterest) and you take it as a sign that she wants to provoke a reaction?

But pull away from what warrant? We were fine until I left, then she decided to give me the cold shoulder? I got a text this morning, “you still haven’t told me where I can drop off all your things or whatever” I want to give her that space. But why does she do this thing where she gives me no context or rhyme or reason out of the blue why she’s doing this

Don’t try to find logic where there isn’t any.
She has a disorder, you don’t. You react from your point of view which is caring, explaining things, making sure the other feels good... .this is not her frame. Does she do this on purpose? No, she is not a bad person, she has a disorder. It’s the disorder talking, it’s a DISorder, it doesn’t make any sense.

Look, I’m in the same boat as you right now. I have 4 years of experience with a BPD girl and only now and after over 1 year of intensive therapy i’m able to cope with it most of the time. Sometimes not, sometimes i act needy but that’s ok. At least i’m not blowing up her phone or sending her 50 text messages like i used to.
She’s acting distant now, that’s ok. Remember, BPD is all about fear of abandonment AND engulfment. Right now she is engulfed and withdrawing. We as nons are also engulfed from time to time but it is nothing compared to someone with BPD. Engulfment for them ignites old wounds of abuse and control because abuse is the ultimate form of engulfment, you have no control at all. And at this very moment, she associates you with abuse because you are smothering her.

The best way to react to her text? Just tell her where she can drop off your stuff and leave it at that.
If you want ANY chance with this woman, please leave her alone until the engulfment wears off.

i would second this advice from Tomacini. along with leaving her alone, this will begin to signal that you accept and respect her need for space and arent going to chase her or make the exchange of belongings difficult.

As much as it hurts I said, “I’ll let you know when I’m home. You may choose where you want to meet me” she responded “K”

It hurts because of the distance you feel which feels as a rejection. But this is what she craves: distance. Try to not take it personal, that’s what my BPD always says to me, easier said than done of course.

Think about this for a while: if you want to continue with this woman, how will you align your need for intimacy with her need for distance? She will always need distance from time to time. We all do but pwBPD are more drastic in demanding and taking it and will lash out if you don’t give it to them.
So this is key: can you live with that? Please be brutally honest with yourself, it takes a strong character to see them distance themselves from you to the point where they completely disappear. They crave it for they feel engulfed.

How do I know that it isn’t rejection? I gave her distance all the time in our relationship and it wasn’t like this. As soon as I left, she dropped me. Her friend told me she went and had lunch with another guy. I’ll giv her all the distance she wants. I can’t keepnitntogther right now because I don’t know for certain if it is distance or rejection. I’m not going to sit here and act like I am strong in this moment, because I’m not. I am 900 miles away from her and she is cutting me off without rhyme or reason. I just broke down in front of my mother, who is telling me she is sick and tired of her doing this to me and tired of the BS. I can be strong enough for it. But she waited till I was gone to do it, after I bent over backwards more than anyone in her life has for her, and this is what I get? I hope this was the best decision for my relationship with her, because to me, those texts make me feel like it’s over for good. But you all have more experience with this, so I trust your judgement. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt. Her friend also told me she is bipolar depressive.

It’s ok if you’re not strong enough at the moment, we’re not perfect and we all have our limits of what we can take.

In a sense you are right: it’s a form of rejection but it’s only because she needs it. She rejects you to accomplish the distance you won’t give her. I say this based on all your previous posts that showed that you have a hard time giving her space. My BPD once told me that she rejected me because she was hurting and the only way to deal with the hurt was hurting someone else (me). It’s not logical, it’s the disorder.

So you say you give her space but at the same time you keep sending her texts. Do you see that discrepancy?

My advice for now if you want it: leave her, let her come to you. Trust me I know how hard this is but it is the only solution. If you can’t deal with that, speak about it with your therapist. Practice on alleviating that anxiety within you which stems from your own childhood trauma as your therapist will also tell you.

She just texted me she got the plants I had sent her. “Just got the plants. Watering them now. Thank you.”
I said “hope you like it. You’re welcome.”

I know where it stems from. I lost my dad when I was 13. My fear of losing people is so great. I love my dad more than anything in this world. People tell me, you’ve been through much worse things than this you can get through it. But if I’m being honest, this situation hurts more than losing my father. And I loved him more than anything.

I will give her space. I’ll let my actions prove it. If you believe this is the right course of action, I’ll do whatever is necessary in my power to respect her, and love her when she needs/wants to be. This is not puppy love or anything like that, this woman means everything to me. I’ll do anything to have her in my arms again.

That was a good answer.

I wish you all the best and know that you are not alone. Take care

it was a good answer.

its backing way off. that lets the ice start to thaw. youre on better footing.

its not out of the woods so to speak... .this is something you will have to demonstrate consistently, and long term, but it can be done, and this is a good start.

i suspect the next big challenge will be the next time she reaches out, or when she returns your things. if you can be cool, not pursue/chase, and not react/be needy, i think it will really catch her off guard, and it will look strong and confident.

She responded “I do. Thank you” twice. I won’t respond
I’ll stay strong and listen to you all. I’ll do whatever I need to. Your help means everything to me.

That didn’t ask for a reply so you did good just leaving it at that.
It’s good that you post here on these boards, I noticed myself how helpful it is. By helping others, I also help myself.

Are you still seeing a therapist? If so, you can also discuss it with him/her. I’ve noticed I’m a changed man although sometimes I still display old behaviour but that’s ok.

I am, Ive seen her once, before me and her started taking again, then she took two months vacation so I won’t get to see her till the 6th.
Yes you are all more mature in these relationships than I. So I shouldn’t be going against your word even if I think it’s right. What’s crazy is, it I took my approach in confronting her about taking me off everything, dropping me when I left for work, ignoring me, then she’d probably just cut me off even more, maybe even paint me black. Since I listened to you all, and have her what she wants, she’s being cordial with me at the moment.

Cordial is a good starting point, let her initiate. Keep up the good work!

i want to second this too!

a lot of us have these habits. i have been the king of over pursuing. i learned a lot about myself here, and about healthier, more successful ways of coping. passing it on to others really helps keep me balanced and avoiding those old habits.

id definitely encourage you to get involved in the threads of others. there are many here in similar situations, and by helping them, things can really start to click for us, and change becomes more ingrained.

Found out my grandmother had a stroke. Texted her back and said “leaving in the moRning. Memaw had a stroke.” I only did this because she’d want to know and knows how close I am to her. She responded “I am sorry to hear that  (sad emoji)

I shouldn’t have, but she would’ve wanted to to know.

This morning from her-

I’ve thought a lot since you’ve been gone. And I’m not saying you were negative but it’s just never going to happen. I can’t ever look at you the same. Once you were disrespectful in the manner of just showing up- my feelings were forever altered. I can’t make myself feel anything. I destroyed everything I had with you. No it may not be fair. But it’s life. I wish you the best and I am glad you were apart of my life for those few months. But all I got is anxiety and anger around you.

(The “one time” she’s talking about when I showed up at the house to talk to her when we initially broke up and she completely ghosted me blocked me on everything and it was the only form of fashion to talk to her) I did not barge in, I did not use my key to the door, I knocked on the door just like any other person visiting would. And she’s using that and looking past EVERYTHING I have done for her, to justify her reasoning.

I responded, “I can’t take back what I did. I’m not the same person that disrespected your privacy. I’m not the same person I was yesterday. Boundaries will always be necessary. I adore you inside & out. Bare and raw. Flaws and all. I’d just like the pleasure of getting to know the K**** of today, and the K**** of the days that follow. Hopefully one day I can gain your respect back. I ask only for one more chance at this; starting at the ground floor just as the day I walked up to the woman of my dreams in nutr. class. I’ve done a lot of thinking as well. Before I left, I was conflicted with wanting you romantically in the present while I should’ve been concerned at building my friendship with you again first. I see that error. I most definitely see how that caused anxiety.
On my fathers grave, I will not rush/push any sort of relationship on you ever again unless you reach a point where you want me in that sense again.”


She responded, “I’m sorry. I just can’t anymore. I can’t force myself to see someone a certain way.“

I responded, “I respect all of your wishes. I will never force anything on you ever again. I understand.“


Is this really it? I don’t know what to do. Please help me out here. The connection we had, it doesn’t seem like it’d be this easy for either of us to throw away

Ok, I know exactly where you are at this moment. I’ve heard this countless times from my exBPDgf. It’s what they feel in that moment and since feelings are facts for them, it’s is the absolute truth for her forever and ever and ever until... .her feelings change again. It took me a lot of time to figure that out and just like you i would start to JADE (in your case: the very very long text you sent her back with more pleading and justifying, explaining,... .) Very understandable but useless with a BPD in a crisis. The best response would be: ok, I’m sorry to hear that. Get back to me when your feelings change.

You gotta admit, over the past few weeks you pushed her buttons quite a few times so that’s where it leads to.

What to do next? Nothing at all. If you decide to wait for her: wait until you hear from her.
What not do next? More pleading, justifying, explaining, defending, texting, going to her house... .to cut it short: don’t contact her

Were my responses to her bad? I thought I did pretty good in agreeing with her, respecting her wishes, and not JADE-ing or begging. So you don’t think it’s over? I mean she didn’t have any context whether she wanted to stop talking romantically, as best friends, or all together. I just want to do anything that is possible to win her back

Ok, maybe reread your texts in your previous posts and try to figure out where you used JADE.

I don’t know if it’s over, every individual is different but their emotions can shift rapidly or it can be totally over.

You ask us for advice but many of us have told you the same countless times: leave her be, let her come to you.

Look, I found this very helpful, it’s not specifically about BPD but women in general. Just look up on Google: coach Corey Wayne, the illusion of action.
Also: coach Corey Wayne, let women come to you
It’s a youtube video and quite enjoyable and insightful.

Mod note: Corey Wayne: Online Reputation, Independent Review https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=282814.0

You’re right. I’m sorry guys I’m trying my best... I’ll look it up thank you

hi whiteknight,

i dont think your response was "bad". you didnt chase, or beg or plead, and thats good. you made a case for the relationship and asked for another chance, and when she said no, you said "okay".

in other words, you didnt make things worse, and your closing was strong and respectful.

going back to what i said previously, change is something that youre going to have to demonstrate consistently, and long term. backing off in the recent exchanges was good, but was not going to fix this over night. like Tomacini said, her buttons have been pushed for a while, and shes been at her wits end.

so i think things have been building up to this point for a while.

is it recoverable? it may be, it may not be. shes definitely blowing off steam. she feels really disrespected. i think you validated that, which was a good move.

often times, a person in her position feels bad after they blow off steam like that. they will tend to want a more gentle do over. it may be that she reaches out to you soon to have that conversation. it may not be. but you played a decent hand in order to facilitate that.

i strongly agree that the best move is to do absolutely nothing, directly or indirectly. dont reach out to her friends about this, dont post anything directed at her on social media, and dont contact her. give her space big time. this will communicate that you get the message, and truly respect her wishes and her space.

and looking ahead, if she does reach out, id bet money it will be in order to have a more gentle do over of that conversation. she will likely say something along the lines of "i feel bad about how i went about it, but thats how i feel". how you respond will be critical. the best card to play is to listen and validate her feelings, not argue them, not make promises to change, just listen, and reflect back what shes telling you. that will show her that you get it.

id really encourage you to read and reread our article on Listening With Empathy here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

these are some of the key points:

 Hey man. I’m going to be blunt with you here.

Youre situation is very similar to mine. I was in the same boat as you. i pushed, because of my anxieties. I thought her wanting space Meant doom. Space is healthy. You need to love someone and let them feel free. Let them come and go in regards the feel safe. It’s hard to do that when you have anxiety and abandonment issues.

You need to give her space and let her come to you. I get it, you’re anxious and nervous and feel the “need” to do something. That’s how guys are. We are goal oriented and think with logic. If I do this then that occurs. If I don’t do this then this will occur, etc.

Watch Corey Wayne and Craig Kenneth videos. Educate yourself on attachment styles, learn yourself better and when you become anxious or fearful ask yourself why you’re feeling that way.

I dated a few girls after my BPD ex. I didn’t exhibit needy behaviors. They chased. One girl even left and came back after a few weeks. I tried so hrd not to reach out like I would with my ex.

I dated a girl recently.we had so much in common, my anxieties came back. I felt the need to do something. I didn’t exhibit a lot but I know to give her space and time to come back to me. I miss her and put a lot of pressure on the situation. Idk if she is ghosting me or actually busy or playing games.

But yes without hijacking,

The anxiety and fear is going to be immense. You might have cold sweats and nightmares about it. All you think about is her and create different scenarios. You might even obsess. But the best thing moving forward is being okay with what she’s wants although it isn’t what you want. This shows true respect and maturity. Life isnt like romance movies and chasing a girl and expressing love. This pushes someone away.

I’ll do whatever I need to do to win her back. Even if I don’t think it’s the best move, I will do whatever you all tell me to do because you have more experience than me in this department. I checked my Instagram and she even blocked me from her business Instagram... .I’ll im trying to do is respect her & her wishes

i hear and appreciate this sentiment. i recall when my ex dumped me, crying, and desperately pleading with, begging God to bring her back to me, that i would do anything, just please dont let this be the end. i dont think i have ever cried harder in my life.

im going to push you on this a bit, because i think its at the heart of the matter.

this "win her back" at any cost attitude. this idea that you will do whatever we tell you to do even if you dont think its the best move.

desperation is controlling you, and hindering you. its driven you to over pursue her despite her expressed wishes. its driving you now to take our advice without really seeing the big picture behind that advice. its not healthy. its no way to live. and if she came back tomorrow, it would still be holding you hostage.

i know that you love this woman with all of your heart. i also know she is not the be all end all source of your happiness. shes not a prize to be won. believing that she is is an attitude that doesnt respect her autonomy, or yours. its just a fantasy that ends in heartache.

not only are inner strength and confidence attractive, but they are ultimately what will help you navigate these turbulent waters, and to heal from the wounds youve detailed to us, which came long before her.

yes, strong men do reach out for support and advice when theyre emotionally flooded, because they have the self awareness that their emotions are ruling them and that feedback would be helpful. but they dont leap frog from event to event not knowing what to do, not knowing what they want to do, and just acting anxiously on impulse. theyre in touch with their values and boundaries, respectful of others values and boundaries, and they are guided by that. they can say "shes the object of my hearts desire and i love her, but i can live without her, and know that ill be okay without her. i can be cool with her needing space and i can give it, and as an independent human being i can ask for and take it if i need it myself.". they can self soothe their anxieties, and know that at the end of the day, whatever happens, theyre going to be okay, and take it to the bank.

this is at the heart of all of the advice youve been given. if you can master that attitude, tap into that inner strength and confidence, whatever happens with this girl, you will be the master of your world, more attractive to healthy others, more certain about what to do when crises happen, and weather this storm with confidence, in a healthy and centered manner.


this is a huge emotional blow, whiteknight. i lost my dad about eight months ago at the age of 31 and it shook my entire world and identity, ive had to work very hard to grieve and to heal. at the age of 13, its all that and then much more... .our fathers are our earliest buddies, our mentors, so much of who we become comes from them. to lose that at such an age can shake all of it profoundly, and be so paralyzing.

if you want advice, the best advice i can give you is this:

1. join in on the threads of others. when we help others, its easier to identify how they are contributing to the problem(s), yet the advice we find ourselves giving, that we didnt even know we had, starts to become ingrained.

2. start a thread about your loss on the Parent/Sibling/Inlaw board, and shift your focus to that, start the healing work (you dont require a family member with BPD to post there... .the board is there to explore our childhoods and how they impact us). i can assure you that many members on that board can relate, and can help. dont stop there, start the grief work in therapy in your next session. make healing your number one priority.

You are both so right. In the last day, I’ve taken my phone and it on do not disturb and haven’t talked to anyone. I know this may hurt some people, but i had to step away from all of it, people, social media, etc. at the moment I’m only talking to you all. I feel better than I have in the last 10 months by doing for this. I’ve been thinking very hard on my drive home in solitude. Knowing that if we are meant to be , we WILL be. That is comforting and exilirating in my book. If fate has it she comes back to me, she WILL. I believe that. I have been watching Corey Wayne’s videos and they scream truth, and the mistakes I’ve made before taking your advice. I just arrived home, I’m going to continue to stay solitude away from everybody and social media for a while longer. I need to emotionally recharge. I’m going to see two of my close friends tonight since I’ve been gone for a month to catch up with them, since I don’t want to be on my phone.Hopefully my actions speak loudly enough to her.

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