BPDFamily.com

The Deputy Conservator for the county my mom now resides in called me today.  I think that is her title.  I found a scrap paper at work and wrote it down,  then promptly lost the paper in he lab (yes,  I can be like that). I have her name and number though.  

The skilled care facility called their office.  The DC told me that age was referred because they couldn't access my mom's bank account.  She told me what I already knew,  that my mom's social security check would go to the facility,  sans $35 spending money,  and that long term medicare would pick up the balance.  

The DC said that she would interview my mom (she met and talked to my mom briefly),  the staff, and take it to the court to appoint a guardian over her assets and to be a medical advocate. I told the DC that I had already been doing the latter,  and while I sympathized with them getting paid,  that I had no legal authority to access my mom's account,  not did I want that responsibility.  It likely wouldn't be a big deal,  but given my mom's past accusations,  I sint want to deal with those recurring even if I were legally protected,  assigned by the court.

The DC said that if the Conservator were assigned,  that person would still call me to keep me apprised of the decisions made on my mom's behalf.  

I gave her a five minute abbreviated version of the history.  At first, she sounded like she wanted to hang up,  but I fed her enough to pique her interest. Hoarding, long history of dealing with multiple illnesses.  Me and others financially rescuing her over the years,  her lapse into paranoia,  and the false accusations she made against me.  

The DC asked if she had other assets like property.  Her I realized I may have volunteered too much,  in that I told her that the 5 acres age had been living on was sold by the adjacent county by auction due to not paying back taxes,  but that it was in her dead husband's name.  Her I realized I might have sounded a little cold and altered my wording to "deceased husband."

A Navy SEAL who was a Vietnam veteran told me decades ago "never volunteer information!" Bob The SEAL.  He tried to intimidate me little,  me an eighteen year old kid,  but growing up with a BPD mother,  it rolled off me.  The following semester in college,  he told me that he respected that I took his crap and was kind of my friend afterward.  Oh, the people we run into in our lives... .

There is still the 2 acres in my mom's deceased husband's name that was sold to my BFAM and his dad,  my mom years later denying that they gave her $10k as a down payment,  which she squandered on fruit trees which rotted in their pots, never planted, lawn gnomes, QVC jewelry (which was stolen by one of my mom's "friends" and who knows what else? Hopefully the court won't dig too deeply into that and force probate... .

How do I feel? I'm glad that my mom is safe,  but I also realize that there are several entities to which money is due.  The DC said that they will mail me court documents, but that I won't have to show up to court unless I want to.  

Okay.  This sounds like a good development to me, not that I have any direct experience here.  I think it is good you do not need to make any decisions but they will still inform you. 

Is there value in asking DC how previous bills will be handled as you do not want anything interfering with your mothers care?  Be vague but direct at the same time sorta thing?

 

I got a call two months ago maybe from the ambulance company. I didn't call back.  I know there was a $30k MRI charge from a few years ago that my mom ignored by she told me admit it.  It was the year that she messed up or got bad advice on getting supplemental Medicare insurance. At worst case, an MRI doesn't cost near that much so I don't know if that's true.  I never saw the bill. 

30k MRI is not correct... .thankfully.  I remember the call from the ambulance co, but again, if you did not sign anything and CA has not enforced those Filial Responsibility Laws I don't think you need to worry. 

But I know I would be feeling anxious in your shoes.  Just keep doing what you are doing.  It sounds like you did well talking with this person.

The DC finally called me back today. I had my phone charging downstairs. She gave me her email and I emailed my mom's January bank statement which showed she had $10k in her account.  The last social security deposit was about $1500. This was given that she had been paying $900/month to the motel at which she was staying. I know she was paying utilities at her property,  but she only had a little over $100/mo in property taxes,  no mortgage.  And yet she still lost her property due to her inability to handle money.  It still pisses me off how all of this could have been avoided.  If only she had listened to me and sold her property before the 2008 crash.

She could have gotten $300k for the 5 acres even with the house in poor condition and set herself up self sustainable for a number of years. Or two years ago let me step in to pay off the back taxes,  sold the property, transitioned into getting a day helper and still be living with us.  I don't know why I am still beating myself up over things over which I had no control.   

I've recently been looking into retiring to Idaho.  Yet I'm still with the Hermit mentality. Being a hermit made my mom worse, being isolated.  Everyone knows you never go full hermit. 

Turkish, I know this is hard for you, but I think it is a good thing.

When my father was ill, I tried to get involved to help with their finances. This was not entirely altruistic. My mother is not responsible with money and I wanted her to have enough to live on. If it was carefully managed, she would be able to do that and not become a ward of the state on Medicare. I also got involved with my father's health care team as they assumed he was home with his competent loving wife taking care of him and that wasn't the case.

As you imagine, this didn't go well Mother was screaming that I was forcing her to take me to the bank to access her money. Dad was mad that I didn't go along with the family secret not to reveal mom's issues. I realized I was not the best person to help them- not for them or for me. I also didn't want to deal with suspicions over the money. I would not take it, and I didn't want to be thought of like that. So I stopped.

Mom engages in the same kind of dysfunction with her home health workers. Some have taken advantage of her and also stolen money and valuables. She listens to advice of complete strangers rather than me. I have no idea what resources she has left and hope that it is enough for her for as long as she needs it.

The hard part for me is that my father worked hard his whole life to provide for her. It is hard to see that mismanaged, but it is her money and she is still legally competent to do what she wants with it.

Hi Turkish.

I can only imagine how frustrating this must be.  I was thinking about this situation early, specifically the money management.  Growing up, you experienced some pretty extreme stuff including poverty.  I would be angry seeing this replay again... .none of the poverty was 'necessary'.  Your mother had the means to provide for you but made choices and acted in ways that prevented her from providing a good home, not just emotionally but physically.  Living in a camper, eating out of cans, peanut butter and mayo sandwiches?

That's my take on this and why it is so frustrating.  I can't really find the words though.

Just rambling.

Idaho is gorgeous and retiring there does not mean you will become a hermit. If becoming a hermit is what you fear, know that it’s possible to be a hermit in a big city too.

What do you love, Turkish? We know you love your wolf pack; yet they will grow up and leave to have their own lives sooner than you may realize. But what do you really love? What are you passionate about? I’m not talking about work. What excites you (outside of work and kids/family)?

Notwendy: that's a bunch of crap that workers took advantage of your mother, regardless of her behaviors.  I floated the idea of a day friend when my mom was living with us and she responded to telegraph that she might act like your mom did.  Paranoia, no trust. That's odd given that my mom,  like yours,  would trust sketchy people rather than her own child who really didn't have an agenda other than wanting the best. 

Harri: I'm still curious if peanut butter tastes better with mayo or miracle whip. My recollection of 2nd grade was that it was miracle whip. The tangy sweetness seems a better match! I wish I were like D6, who is steadfast and only wants peanut butter,  or now Nutella. She won't eat what she doesn't want to and will get a hot lunch instead.  It's not like the good old days where my mom would force me to stay in my TV tray table for hours as I refused to eat the plate of spaghetti she put in front of me.  I would fall asleep and face plant into the food.  She thought this was funny.  The upside is that I remember a lot of The Late Show With Johnny Carson.

L2T: I feel like I'm pathetic these days.  I used to be into motorcycles: it sits in the garage unstarted for 2 years. I used to be into shooting sports. I even spent many hundreds of dollars doing training,  which was fun.  Haven't been to the range or even out into the woods in over 2 years.  I detached from men's bible study. I don't have any friends locally.  I feel like I'm just surviving and I value my Turkish time when I don't have the kids.  I did go to the central valley today with my ex and the kids to her brother's surprise birthday party.  I sensed she was frustrated with the kids when she picked me up,  but she was OK.  The kids acted out now and then,  mostly D6.

It's still not a life though. 

Work to keep my job,  take care of the kids,  build retirement... .I feel like it's just a holding pattern.  I felt a deep depression last weekend when I had the kids and I couldn't nail down why... .it went away during the week.  I freaking hate when I feel like that because I can't nail down the why.  Buying a new motorcycle or very expensive a new car might help me temporarily but that isn't the root, nor would those actions be responsible other than mid life crisis bandaids.

I've hijacked my own thread 

Turkish- she's always been that way. Discounts what people close to her say and trusts total strangers.

I had looked into some assisted living type places when my father was ill, visited some of them. They rejected all of the recommendations, then she heard from a neighbor that her mother was in one and that had to be the one. ( they didn't go). It's also black and white- if she decides one is good, then all the others are "terrible".

With her helpers, she has an agenda. A trained and certified home helper won't put up with her demands. They also won't let her do whatever she wants. It's like babysitting a toddler. They have a routine and limits, and she doesn't like it. She tends to seek out people who are not trained but are desperate for a job and then gets into drama and control with them. She pays people generously but also they have to comply with her- so they put up with her for the money, and see her as a rich old lady to take advantage of. I would say she is comfortable, not rich, but spends whats she wants out of the money Dad left her. This is why I was concerned about how she would manage it.

I've tried to help my parents in the past, but it is like trying to help out of control toddlers who are legal adults and who have the means to pay for what they want. My father wasn't always like this, but somehow over the years he just went along with whatever she wanted.  I've pretty much stepped away from being concerned about what she does- I would not be able to influence her anyway.

Miracle whip is gross.

So, I think this is good.  yeah, good.  You are discontent with the way your life is.  You recognize it.  I assume it's because you want different?

Feelings follow actions.  Change things up.  You can't wait until you feel like doing something to do something.  :)o something and you will feel like doing it.

There.  I have just conspired with you to hijack your own thread.

We are rebels.

Change it up Turkish.

Hey Turkish, I’m jumping on the thread hijacking train with you and Harri. Yes, your Mom is becoming a ward of the County. I understand there may be much conflicting emotion attached to this for you.  

Harri has given you some good advice re logistics and I don’t have anything to add to that aspect.

I do have some thoughts on this:

So... .you don’t have to go to full on midlife crisis purchasing right out of the gate with buying a new motorcycle or sleek sports car. But I wouldn’t judge if you did.  

What if you took yourself to the range for a date with yourself next time you have some Turkish time?

Or, what if you started that motorcycle in the garage? If it starts, take yourself for a short ride. If it doesn’t, you’ve got an awesome project.

Or think of a new activity or possible hobby you would like to try.

You are NOT pathetic. You are awesome. And I will tell you that as your kids grow, it’s going to be very important for them to see you enjoing your own healthy activities. You will be modeling healthy behaviors to them... .and they need to know it’s good and healthy to develop one’s self.

Just some ideas for your consideration.  Sending you positive energy and excellent thoughts.

L2T

PS... .Miracle Whip is gross. But my uNPDm had me convinced that I loved it as a kid. So, yes... .important to spend time learning what’s real for us and what we enjoy.

 Yes, I have to agree with this.  You really are awesome.  And what L2T said about your kids needing to see you having fun and your own life.  So pull up that voice ... .yes, that voice and say ":)o it for the Children!".  :)

L2T. welcome to team rebel!

Yes, for the CHILDREN! They are counting on you. I’m trying very hard not to project my own issues and discovery on you (I have some self awareness). BUT! If you are anything like me, you find it easy to do incredible things if it is FOR SOMEONE ELSE.  :)oing things that you perceive are “FOR YOU” is exceptionally difficult and you may often find yourself bailing on yourself, opting to beat yourself up depressively. I am famous for that. For me, it boils down to conditioned self abandonment.

The reality is, Awesome Turkish, that you are the MOST worthy of your own time, care and love. Teaching your kids that it’s good and healthy to do this is one of the best gifts you can give them. And yourself.

Awwww... .thanks, Harri! Rebels ROCK!

Mr. Whipple is spinning in his grave! Wait, that's the Charmin guy, not the "I'm all out of miracle whip" guy... .

According to Bowen, "the rebel is poorly differentiated." 

I get what you are saying though.  Even before I had kids I thought that one of the number one goals of a parent would be to have the kids turn out better than me.  I can kind of get away with things for now but not for long.  ":)addy. Why don't you take us to Legoland like Mommy does?" (Almost every year... .she takes me vacations than some upper middle class people I know)

I'm way out of shape compared to how I was three years ago,  and while it will be harder to bounce back within sight of 50, I need to do it.  Maybe a good first step. 

Notwendy: yes, I fully imagine that would how it would have been with my mother, minus my mom having money. 

Thanks for this. Not being familiar, I had to look. You left out a key word. I found this:


I am confident that we are not “extreme” rebels. And we do ROCK!   :)


Turkish, I passed 50 a few years back. It’s never too late to take the first step. The benefits pay off better than a retirement plan because quality of life increases so much when we genuinely pursue our passions. I’m here cheering you on. I bet we could even get a Rebels Cheerleading squad going. 

Good job on digging deeper into the Bowen comment. That makes sense,  like,  "are you an individual,  or is your identity merely comprised of opposing others?" We see this all of the time... .maybe not the James Dean stuff, but the Marilyn Monroe memes on social media.

My dream of retiring to Idaho won't work well if I'm not healthy enough to take care of myself. I shared this with my ex yesterday on the drive back from the central valley and she also wants to retire to the country.  If only she hadn't gone off the deep end 5 years ago... .we could hand been a powerhouse couple, but it is what it is and we can only move forward.

I've got the adult bike on the garage.  Being trapped in suburbia,  there's not too many places to ride, but even riding streets would help I think.  I tried doing a few basic BMX tricks on the bike I got my son, but I'm wary of breaking myself 

But is it really Legoland or Disney World that they care about so much?


Sounds to me like she just wants her Daddy :) You are more important to your kids than Legoland and Disney World combined could ever be Turkish

Quote from Kwamina: But is it really Legoland or Disney World that they care about so much?

Quote from: Turkish on March 30, 2018, 11:52:14 PM
D5 started crying and saying how much she'd miss me as I pulled into the departures curb.  Poor girl.  I picked her up, kissed and hugged her tight.  They'll have fun. 

Quote from Kwamina: Sounds to me like she just wants her Daddy smiley You are more important to your kids than Legoland and Disney World combined could ever be Turkish

This... .bold parrot sentence. Turkish, you are their safe place. You give your kiddos nurturing, safe space, time, and LOVE that puts their needs first. That is priceless and more valuable to their well being than any expensive vacation.

Sorry Turkish, I am not sure you can stay in on rebel team any more.  In this case, being a rebel *is* differentiation from all of the dysfunction and emotional ties and abuse... .at least to the extent possible.   

I'm very glad to hear you got the bike out and no I definitely don't want a broken Turkish!  I can't tease you if you are broken.  See, it really is all about me.   *)

When you talk about your ex going off the deep end 5 years ago do you mean the affair?  or was it the whole marriage that was bad?

Going off the deep end started with her father's affair... .then hers. I don't think our whole r/s was ever good and stupid me for knocking her up not once but twice.  Anyway... .

I received by mail the court documents for the conversatorship hearing next month.  My mom won't be there.  The thing that struck me was "Ms. [Turkish Mom] has no friends or relatives willing or able to assist her at this time." I'm named as her son in the documents and that they contacted me. I wonder if the judge will see me as a POS, or maybe the judge has seen plenty of these and is used to it.  I'm not responsible for the feelings of the judge 

The 5 acres went up for auction was was likely sold.  I want to show up at the hearing even if my mom isn't there,  but I don't want to volunteer information. There is still the 2 acres in her dead husband's name.  The is supposedly a paper will in the safe deposit box at her bank.  My mom told me that her deceased husband left the two properties to her,  then me as secondary.  She never filed it.  Never went to probate despite the money I gave her over a decade ago.  Later,  I found out probate wasn't necessary.  She only had to show their marriage certificate.  She never did that. 

My BFAM and his dad gave her a $10k down payment for the 2 acres. My mom later denied/forgot about that.  The other $20k was to be made in payments after my mom got the property in her name.  It's an honor thing to me: my mom basically stole that money by failing to follow through, notwithstanding the fact that a few hundred a month would have helped her. Right. She would have blown that money on yard statuary and unplanned fruit trees which littered the 5 acres.

So my concern is the court doing the financial forensics. If they find the will and the 2 acres. I realize that it's out of my control. I told my buddy that up leave him far more money from my retirement and that he'll far outlive me.  He hates it when I talk like that. 

Thanks for the update.

Why not post your legal concerns on the legal board.  Maybe someone there can help?

I still don't think they can go after you though.  I understand wanting to go to the hearing though and the wording in that document would bother me too.  I think though that you are right and the judge probably sees lots of this.  You are not abandoning her Turkish.  The social workers know that, her rep knows that and her doctors know that.  And we know that.  Take comfort in that. 

I'm not worried about them going after me.  You helped post links to assuage that worry.  It's just my feelings and the 2 acres. Aaaand the neighbor's yelling at each other tonight. Yelling. Cussing. Why can't we all get along? 

Hi Turkish- I understand your situation. People assume a certain relationship between an aging parent and child.  I know you did all you could to help your mother. I can say I tried my best for my father, and learned a lot in the process about how tough that is with a BPD parent- because BPD mother's situation impacted their decisions.

It is tough having other people think you are a terrible person, but they don't have a clue about the whole picture. Neighbors are starting to call me about my mother. I started a thread about it.

You have done all you could possibly do to help your mother. Now, it is up to the state.

The court investigator called me today.  I realized that this was standard protocol.

She asked me if I were ok with where she was living and if they provided good care.  Yes.

How do you feel about the competency of a Conservator making decisions in my mom's best interest? I replied that I trusted in the system put in place to act in her best interests. 

She said that I was unable to act in my mom's best interest due to distance (120 miles away). I said that I could help with the money if I could but that 2.5 years ago my mom had accused me of stealing her money and while that I was safe now from such accusation, I didn't want to talk to my mom about getting control over her money due to that,  and that the old accusations might spring up. The investigator's response indicated to me that she was aware of the accusations.  I briefly told her about my mom's accusations that I'd kidnapped her,  thus resulting in me taking her back to the county on 4/4/16. I didn't mention The Hoard or my mom's mental illnesses.  The court documents mentioned "dementia" as the sole rubric in these cases.  That's enough for people and courts to understand I guess. 

She said that she was going to visit my mom next week to talk to her. I told the investigator to call me anytime. 

Good job Turkish. 

People who deal with this stuff every day get it.  I know that does not make it any easier though.  How are you feeeeeling?

I knew you would ask me that and I resisted sarcastically (passive-aggressively?) anticipating it.  I think I'm ok at this point. 

We are the PSI Collective. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. :)

Yes, we will bother you as the family we are, Turkish.  :)

You are doing what you can and protecting yourself which is important. It is such a hard place.

 
The Llama

   

Well, I knew you would do what you did and i bet you rolled your eyes at me too.   

Yes, we have assimilated you.  It's a good thing (cue Martha Stewart)

Glad to hear you are doing okay.  I think whatever you feel would be okay though. 

I received another notice from the court today I'm not looking for validation of my feeelings  (hours that for passive-aggressive  ) just posting to continue to tell the story of it helps anyone.

"Ms. [Turkish mom] is 76 years old and no longer able to provide for her personal daily needs for food,  clothing, and shelter or manage her finances."

I'm going to be honest here and all sarcasm aside. I paused for a few minutes crying... .wolves don't cry, except when they do. 

"A Capacity Declaration submitted herewith for filing indicates that age has dementia.  She has no family or friends willing or able [FOG] to provide the level of care [Turkish Mom] requires on a day to day basis.  She is currently residing in a skilled care nursing facility in  [City]. Her son supports the petition for Conservatorship."

All of this was so unnecessary.  Like my ex.  Even making half my salary.  We could have been a powerhouse and done so well even on the bay area.  But you can't control others who are independent entities free to make their own choices. 

Hi Turkish  (We are the PSI collective.)


Sure you're not *) (You will be assimilated.)


That's very considerate of you *)  (Resistance is futile.)


Seeing this on paper is quite confronting. You already knew it, but now it's on paper it's like it's really official, for you but also for the whole world. I can see how this could trigger some strong emotions in you and also flashbacks of days gone by.

I can imagine that the part "She has no family or friends willing or able", is particularly hard as well considering you did so much for her even taking her in, and in fact continue to be there for by caring from a distance, visiting her from time to time and handling all these phone calls.

Sadly, that she is in this situation, is a direct result of her own behavior. Having said that, I am also very much aware of her own personal history you have shared with us. It is also very clear that her behavior is at least partly very much a result of some of the traumatic experiences she had.

Take care Turkish

(https://orig00.deviantart.net/ab53/f/2010/320/7/e/crying_wolf_by_jack_13-d32yra5.jpg)

The Board Parrot is also crying for you:
When Parrots Cry (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJjJBM3uSg)

Thanks Parrot! That link was kind of disturbing.  I didn't know Parrots could be so emotive, present company excluded.   

You're welcome my wolf friend  (Assimilation complete.)

Yes, I was doing the 'ugly' cry. I am doing ok now though, still screaming but that's because I haven't had breakfast yet. After that I should be good :)

Good morning Turkish.    <--- I can do that thanks to the Parrot paving the way!  We are going to gather around you even if you think you don't need it.   

It is a sad situation, heartbreaking really.  I am glad you let yourself cry and shared it here.  Yes, others will be helped, but so will you.

Kwamina said everything so well, I won't even attempt to add to it.  Well, except for one thing:

That was a form letter you received.  Letters like that are written in a way that reduces a lifetime to make it fit into organized little boxes regardless of reality.  It is not truly reflective of the situation, the man you are or the woman your mother is/was.  I know that does not make it any easier and it does not make the sadness go away though because the sadness is about more than just the letter.  There is a finality to the situation now.   

That said, I would want to re-write it to be a more accurate summary of what happened.  Not for them but for me.  I would include things like 'I did everything within my power' and 'Mama Turkish behaved in ways that made it impossible for me to continue as it was not just a risk to me but also to my kids'.

Again, I don't think doing the above will make it hurt less, but it would be a more accurate representation of what happened and maybe a good way to process the hurt.

<passes along the box of tissues>

Quoting Harri:

I think this is the true tragedy for us PSI kids. Suffering all our young lives at their hands, suffering through young adulthood to find our own selves, then struggling desperately to make peace with the end of their choosing. In our hearts we know it’s not the way we want things to go.

All the suffering is so unnecessary. But it is their choice. In the end, you allowed her the dignity of her own suffering. It is/was her choice. She made it, even if she was sick. You honored her and her ability to choose. That takes strength and compassion.

Sending you much love, young Turkish. You are awesome. You are so loved and needed by your wolfpack. And your family here. We value your experiences, perspective and wolfish wisdom. 

  L2T

I got another court packet today,  this time my email. 

The investigator described my mom as not understanding the proceedings. My mom would engage, then wander off. The CI described my mom as kind of engaging, crying, then wandering off, distracted, which is how my mom was when wet visited her a month ago.  She was happy to see us,  cried, but distracted. Only part of her understands.  It's very sad... .

I replied that it was similar to when me and my kids visited her she then I said that it was sad on that my mom had a life long struggle with depression and PTSD. I kicked myself for volunteering that to someone from the court even if it's true.  I'm looking for validation when I should be playing 100% logical with the court system.

There is nothing wrong with wanting validation, especially if you recognize the limits of the court system.

Yes.