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It was a really tough night, which ended in sleep deprivation, our child seeing me cry and being sad herself, and both of us believing that our marriage is a failure. 

I know I suck at validation, and usually when I say something out of instinct, it's invalidating.  Well, need to go back and re-read the Lessons again, and do scenario practices in my brain.

The trigger last night was that he was heading to do the dishes and I said, "You must be so tired, don't do the dishes, just let me do it."  This led uBPDh to be really upset and said "So what do you want me to do, BOSS?", and when I asked him to just sit down and rest, he basically sat there with a death glare.  Which later on led to hour of him complaining about me, saying how I will never, ever change, I will always be like this; that him having me as a wife is probably God punishing him, etc.  You get it.  Needless to say, my whole intention of him getting some rest didn't work out at all in the end.  Oh, and he also mentioned that he thought me offering to do the dishes is NOT me trying to be nice, it is NOT a nice gesture.

Looking back, I guess if I'm communicating with a non, I would expect him to at least appreciate my intention, even though that's probably not what he wanted at that time.  But we're talking about a pwBPD, and I guess it was invalidating to him because HE wanted to do the dishes, and I didn't allow him to- no intention necessary, I've already invalidated him and that's the end of it.

Should I have versed it differently, like "you must be so tired.  Would you like me to do the dishes instead?"  i.e. allowing him to refuse my suggestion, and not forcing it down his throat.  Would it have been better?  Or would it be invalidating to the pwBPD anyway, and I should just let him do whatever he wants and not suggest an alternative, because the act of suggesting is already invalidating? 

Chosen, I see that you are in a tough spot and I have to say, it's so the way it is !... .   

I know I get to drop down the rabbit hole in my mind, trying to figure out what I didn't get right when I tried to validate, or use SET, or DEARMAN, ... .and it doesn't work!...   We're humans, we're not perfect. Don't get yourself worked up about it too much.

It's normal for us to have the anxiety. It's humbling, seeing how after having been on these boards for so long, helping so many people, you still can have those overwhelming moments.

Something that came to mind while reading your story was when I say something like that, my spouse also acts like I am bossing her around. Sometimes I don't even realize, my tone of voice can be a bit directive, especially if I am feeling a bit tensed already. Maybe tired, hungry, or frustrated with something else.

Daily life, really.

May I ask what led you to offer him to do the dishes for him?

 


Brave
 

Hi braveSun, I always try to offer help!  Short background: He's a full-time father (by choice) who takes care of our 2 kids, and I go to work.  He has the tendency to do everything (to feel useful?  Out of love for us?  I guess both really), but I think a family is about sharing work.  Especially since the kids seemed to be quite fussy that day, so he's had a long day and he looked tired (well, so was I, but I do think that the mental pressure of taking care of kids is greater than that of going to work).  That's why I offered to help, because he doesn't really know how to take time for himself (sounds really judgmental I know, but it's true.  He would work till he is overtired, then resentment builds up). 

He doesn't see it that way though; he sees me offering to help as me "trying to feel helpful, refusing to let others help me because of my pride".  The way I see it, this sort of thinking is really twisted, and it comes from a place where he is constantly painting me black... .that's why everything I do/ try to do has a "bad intention".  I think he is just inventing my intention so he has reason to be mad at me... .

I think I see where you are coming from. Our loved ones wBPD have emotional regulation issues, they need to learn about their own self-care. As a result we feel responsible for the best emotional well being for all in our family, we get in there and take the lead. As women we also know how it's like to be tired and to wish our spouse will understand that feeling and offer to help to relieve the burden a bit.


I can see how when we are going through an argument, our loved one may be sort of picking up a reason to be mad at us on the spot. I usually get reeled up about that myself. That bad intention attribution is so invalidating for us nons!... It's hard to not feel anger when my spouse does that.   



You have good questions there. What strikes me in the situation you describe is the fact that both of you were tired, at the end of the day, and he blew up (predictable), because he had a pressing need to get through with the situation as 'being a decent person trying to get it done'. Like as if our spouse is actually trying to better themselves and be more of a responsible part of the team, they also might feel over-crowded when out of tiredness we take the lead and our actions fall into the (interpretable) line of 'let me do it, you're not ___________ enough.' I can see the possible (attributed) invalidation there.

Not that any mean I condone his behavior. 

In addition to that I'm seeing that both of you being tired at same time, both of you have been invalidated in some important way by the incident. I can see you feeling terribly frustrated because he won't see your jumping in as being the most genuine, honest, efficient way at the time. And there us, nons, ... down the rabbit hole we go, ... .one bad thing goes on to the next in our tired brain, and before we know we're all out and fighting for the state of our relationship. He might want you two to go that road. That you know about it. You might, though, once in a blue moon, let the chips fall, because it's just, ... .too much at times. 

His thinking may be twisted, but by not asking him first if he could use a hand with it or not, you have seen it too after the fact, you didn't leave him with a choice to shoulder something.

Something I'll agree with quickly: He might feel strongly about doing it himself, than blaming you later about it anyway.

May I ask you what was the signal you saw when you concluded that he was tired past that critical point?

We, nons, have our natural instincts for betterment of our environment too. We can pick up vibes and want to regulate the tensions before they explode. The downside of this though, is that we can end up taking too much control too. I'm struggling with that point myself. I heard my own spouse telling me I was trying to control her so much. All I can think of is the fact that when I picked up a vibe I did something to bring the calm back in the house. I've done dishes, I've made a smoothy, I've bought something I thought was going to help her with her sleep, I've scrubbed the kitchen back to decency, cooked a meal, searched for fun different ice tea recipes and tried to entice her with novelties to get her to take more interest in better self-care. I've done tons of things to help!...

And do you know that mostly she rejects my ideas and refuses my help, or even attacks me for the wasted money because she's not going to use that anyway?... That stuff is difficult to take in over and over and over.

Now here while reading your story I wonder though. ... Would there be a way for exploring this opportunity further and bring up the topic of his work/contribution to the household in a separate conversation later (in a calm moment)? Maybe more in the line of validating ways he has contributed more solidly lately, and ways he has been a good support to you or the family. I mean to bring it out between both of you, but outside of the tired, difficult moments. (I'll hold on with the issue of your little one seeing you both crying for now.)

I wonder because of the way our loved ones actually are functional in some good parts of their lives, and they might 'participate' more at times, might take on more responsibilities for things in daily life as personal growth assignments, and we might not see them doing that.

It's my thinking that they must do some of that on their own. I don't know about your husband's situation, if he's in therapy or not. Please forgive me there. Many of their  judgements maybe skewed and mostly too harsh.

I also see that if it was the case, the experience of being with others who believe one could never be a full participating, trustworthy human being must be hard.

I see some of that with my spouse who exhibits NDP behaviors. I see that one of her preoccupations is about how functional and successful she is in other areas of her life. Let's say in her case she can carry this self-promotion campaign a bit far at times. But while reading about your husband wBPD and you, I am wondering if this aspect (of not being seeing) is not a reasonable part of the difficulties in a pwBPC-non relationship.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for all this. I see myself offering help or being bossy when trying to push my spouse into self-care because she's not good at it. Reading this was helpful, gave me a different perspective. Thanks!

I have to watch myself taking away tasks from my H.  His health has declined, and he's not able to do a lot some days.  Even though in the past he disdained housework, and would only do it if company was coming, he seems to regret this a bit, and see that I am often tired/worn down, but can't always do much about it.  We both work.  My chronic issues are just less than his, so I push through more often.  Or, let things fail as I have to. 

Now, he seems to want to help.  Me taking over everything to get it done has resulted in a bit of him both feeling grateful and yet resenting me at times when his emotional reserves are low.  He also has said, ":)oing dishes/running errands/mowing the yard, etc is not nice." 

Here's my take on why - it's not nice because it makes him feel guilty for not doing it. 

He feels guilty, and so in his mind, that was my intent all along.  He sees me as grandstanding (I'm not, I don't even tell people I do the housework, they just pick up on it over time if they are around, but they also see he can be quite ill and don't seem to think badly about it).  He has accused me of playing the "poor wretch" for doing laundry.  No matter that I don't.  He also accuses me of "nagging", but it's "silent" in my mind.  He "knows" I am thinking mean things about having to do the housework.  (I"m not.  I grew up keeping houses clean as we moved around the country, it's just normal to me). 

If your H is used to being the one to do it, maybe to balance you being the breadwinner, you just took a task away from him that balances things.  No matter what your reasons are, he seems to see it as a way to ingratiate himself to you, make him owe you one, whatever.  He saw it as being patronizing, not helpful.

I don't know if another phrase could have helped - maybe try the idea of asking him rather than telling him.  Or maybe ask to do them together?  To spend more time together?


And, also just from my POV, I tend to feel H is inefficient when he DOES step in to clean.  He kinda misses things I do, he can't squeeze as much into the dish drainer, and frankly, the kitchen STILL needs work when eh's done.  When he sweeps, he never actually makes it to the trash.  A small pile is left NEAR the trash.  Which I still have to take out.  So, sometimes, while I want to encourage him to be active, to help around the house as he can, it's sometimes very much like having a child you can't correct coming around, messing with your "system" and making a task you can do in 10 minutes take 30. 

So, in addition to thinking you may be patronizing him or mocking the effort he had all day, maybe he has some feeling only he can "properly" wash the dishes.

Try asking next time, or offer to help?  See how that goes? 

Thanks all!  Your input have been so helpful and enlightening.  I guess the bottom line is, uBPDh felt invalidated, and therefore none of my original intentions would matter anymore, because he is unable to see past the invalidation.  And by "taking away" his "job" of doing the dishes, I have possibly made him feel controlled/ not useful/ not an equal part of the family, even though I obviously didn't intend to.  It is, however, often hard for me to see him being overtired in order to take care of us- the way I see it, it simply is not necessary; we could share the chores!  But instead he wishes to do everything himself.  But now I see it- I have been thinking like him, I have neglected his intentions and focused on his actions (which results in him being tired). 

I guess one point I take from this incident is, pwBPDs do have to live with the results of their actions.  If he wants to love me in this way, even though I don't think it's the best way to do things, I should let him do it.  I can predict that the next challenge will be tackling his resentment- he does all these chores, and if he continues to do so, resentment usually builds up, and he will complain.  He most usual one is that "I'm more like a domestic helper than a father".  Any suggestions on how to tackle that, aside from suggesting that he could've shared the chores with me so that he has time left to do fatherly stuff?