BPDFamily.com

I want to start out by saying I've been reading all your posts for awhile and they have been most helpful. I'm sorry if I skip around in my post.

First off, I'm married to a man diagnosed with BPD. He's aware of his diagnosis but insists on not getting help or attempting to improve himself.  I know he suffers,  but I feel like this is his choice with the resources available.  Also his 2 adult sons are diagnosed with BPD. He will often be critical of their "borderline" behaviors but ignore his own.

For years I've dealt with verbal and emotional abuse, and also emotional absence and complete lack of affection. In fact, if I even speak about my problems (even those that don't involve him), he will go into fight or flight mode literally running through the house yelling and throwing things. That's at even the thought that he might have to provide me with emotional support. I've come to the conclusion that he is actually unable to be emotionally available to me, rather than just unwilling. So I'm trying my hardest to keep any concerns or problems I have to myself,  or at least save them for trusted friends.  This brings me to my next topic.

As a person, I do require affection and emotional connection. Though I went without it for years, I came to the point where I got tired of (unsuccessfully) begging him for it.  Since 2014, I've had online relationships with 3 different men. I know that having an affair is immoral,  even if my spouse has BPD. My human needs surpassed my moral compass. The first 2 men were from very far away, married, with no possible way for us to meet. The 3rd turned out to be local and very interested in me.  I'm not sure if his wife is BPD, but according to him, she is very self-centered and unappreciative of anything he does.  So we clicked very quickly.  It's been a breath of fresh air to be held, hug someone without being pushed away,  have a deep conversation,  no verbal abuse. He is concerned about my day-to-day life and has even researched BPD.

He has 2 grown daughters and comes from a culture where family is important.  So due to not wanting to disappoint his daughters, he doesn't plan to leave his wife. I have 2 young sons with my BPD, and due to not wanting to cause them trauma I am not actively leaving him. I do expect he'll leave me eventually.  I read somewhere that borderlines typically leave after around and we're quickly approaching that mark.

Back to husband... .I notice he does better when he's on a routine, going to work every day. I suppose it's because he's surrounded by people who normally don't see his BPD behavior and he's forced to act in a rational way. However,  if he takes any amount of days off work, he "lets it all hang out" at home and decompensates quickly. Tomorrow he starts 8 days off from work.

It gets worse. He is about to have knee surgery next month which could keep him out of work for several months. The medical issue will add to his dysregulation. And, I hate to sound selfish,  but him being home will make it difficult for me to see the man in my life who does give me emotional support and validation.

I guess I'm posting here because I don't know how I'm going to survive the upcoming days and months.

I apologize for the long post that's all over the place. I appreciate any advice, support, or even acknowledgement.

*welcome*

I'm certain you have found a place that can help you sort all this out.  We won't make decisions for you, but can help you focus your thinking and evaluations.




I was particularly struck by this.

Does he say this to his providers?  Those that diagnosed him?

What do they say?  What do they recommend?

On the one hand, YOU can do a lot to improve the relationship by altering the way you "react" to things.  I say this to assure you that you are not powerless.

That being said, if an adult has a problem, acknowledges the problem, acknowledges it is a relationship problem that impacts others (you), yet chooses NOT to get professional help... .well... .that makes a big statement.

Do you hear that?  Loud and clear?  What do you hear?

Looking forward to getting to know you better!


FF

Can you expand on this belief? 

FF

How have you "dealt with the verbal and emotional abuse?"

We all need connection and to be loved and supported.    It's really hard to do that entirely for yourself.

Your husband does best with a routine and now you're looking ahead to having him at home for a protracted period of time while he recuperates from knee surgery. Without having time to see your friend who provides emotional support, what other resources do you have for recharging your own batteries?

Caregiver burnout is a big deal. I just went through that myself when my BPD husband had a hip replacement. Though he tried not to be too demanding, when people are hurting--it just comes naturally. It was exhausting. It's good you are planning for this. You will need time to yourself and supportive friends so you don't feel too overwhelmed.

Hi jacobsgirl360,

You might want to see my post over on Learning to see some of the pitfalls of the path you are on: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325979.0

How you feel and what is happening is totally understandable, but I want to caution you as well.

Are you safe? What would he do if he found out? How do you deal with the inner conflicts this brings up for you?

with compassion, pearl.

Thank you for the welcome FF.  I truly appreciate it.

A little bit of elaboration: he was diagnosed years ago while in marriage counseling with his first wife. He refused to engage further in therapy. I think a lot has to do with "shame" for having mental illness.  I mentioned his 2 adult sons also have BPD. The oldest also refuses treatment,  self-medicating instead (synthetic marijuana and opioids.) He can't keep a job for long, and my husband and his ex-wife end up paying his bills. His 2nd son, on the other hand, is proactive and vocal about getting treatment for his BPD.  He doesn't do great (much difficulty with jobs and relationships), but at least he is trying.  My husband is more ashamed of the 2nd son, because in his mind, allowing others to know he has BPD reflects badly on him... .he is afraid people will think badly of him because his son has BPD. So he wouldn't be caught dead being treated himself.

And yes, he is very aware of the negative effects his illness has on his family. His response is consistently "I don't care", which he states loud and clear.

I mentioned that I do believe he'll leave eventually.  Somehow I omitted a part in the original post. I once read an article from a psychiatrist that always stuck with me. It said romantic relationships with borderlines and non-borderlines will either last 6 months or 15 years. If the non-borderline has a strong personality and isn't codependent,  they will usually bail on the borderline within 6 months. If they are codependent (like I used to be, but I'm getting better), the relationship will be ended by the BPD once they realize the non-borderline can't "save" them from themselves. This will take approximately 15 years. I feel like husband is starting to realize there is nothing I can do to cure his disorder.

Surprisingly,  I work in the mental health field.  You would think I would have had more sense than to marry a borderline (I didn't know at the time.) The medical director of a psychiatric hospital actually told me that BPD is an untreatable illness. Therefore,  he said, BPD's are much sicker than patients with schizophrenia or bipolar.  I don't have high hopes for husband or his sons ever improving.

Hey Jacobsgirl,

Key word for you hear... .RUMINATION ... .and a couple of very useful charts for you to look at. slide 5... .emotional stimulus feeds into brain and pwBPD ruminate (generally negatively) about the stimulus... .then slide 34 shows you how it all fits together as a system.

https://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EMOTIONAL-CASCADES.pdf

When your husband has more time to ruminate on the negative emotions he experiences he has more time to make the emotion BIGGER rather than smaller. I am a huge fan of rumination, I do it a lot, but I positively ruminate and I problem solve, I ruminate solutions. pwBPD have been shown to negatively ruminate.

I guess this is why many pwBPD find relief in exercise as the brain is designed such that we can complete relatively simple automatic tasks with one part of our brain when active BUT, complex thinking can only be done when we're still. By moving we shut down the higher thinking part of our brain. e.g. if I ask you what 2+2 is you'll be able to tell me the answer whist walking or even running, but if I asked you what 17x17 was you'd likely stop and stand, maybe shut your eyes and reach to your higher thinking brain.

So... .keep him occupied and avoid him having time to ruminate... .he naturally wants to think about how terrible he is and all the bad things he has done.

Hope that helps

Enabler

Thank you for your reply, Enabler!

"Rumination" fits his behavior perfectly, I'm surprised I never thought of the idea myself. This also explains why he does better even if he's been spending time performing tasks for his grown sons, who also have BPD.  I will be checking out those slides shortly.

To stop him from ruminating will be the tough part, as it's what he naturally does.  I work overnights and sleep for part of the day. On days that he's off, he will either sit in the chair all day playing around on his iPad,  or spend the day lying in bed, dozing on and off (after sleeping the night before). Usually,  by the time I wake up, he is starving as he takes no initiative to go out and grab something to eat.  

Especially after his upcoming knee surgery,  keeping him occupied will be difficult.  He's usually oppositional to anything I suggest, especially something that involves him leaving the house. It's almost like he knows his behavior is intolerable and his leaving would be a respite... .which is why he doesn't like to go.

In a previous post I mentioned his sons who also has BPD (both in their 30's). Yesterday I found out his oldest son is going on permanent disability.  He won't be receiving enough to get by completely,  so my husband will still need to support him somewhat.  I was thinking maybe spending more time with this son could prevent him from ruminating,  but it's also a challenge to get him over to see him.

He also "splits" his son, as he does me. To make things more complicated,  his son doesn't care for me. (We are actually paying for his apartment so he doesn't have to stay in our house.) If at any point his son is "good", I have to be "bad" and vice versa. Example: I could be sitting in the chair, quietly reading a book. He walks in the door from a positive visit with his son. He will immediately start on a tirade of verbal abuse directed at me, since his son is "good" and therefore I am "bad".

He has started his days off from work (9 days in fact... .I was wrong about 8 days... .surgery is next month).  He's been dysregulated since the day before vacation started. I noticed he is becoming bolder with his verbal abuse in that he'll do it loudly even knowing I'm on the phone with a friend. When I'll gesture at the phone,  hinting they can hear him, he'll shout "i don't care!" I truly believe he doesn't care.

I thank you all for your replies and I'll respond more shortly.  I'm still getting used to this site and I'm curious as to how to be notified for new responses.

 
 Sorry your are having such a rough time, There is a lot of knowledge on these threads to help you through this time.
  I just finished up w " I hate you, don't leave me" Jerold Kreisman . Its a classic on the subject of BPD. Very informative.
   Be Well, NGY

Jacobsgirl360,


Can you expand a bit on what you do in the mental health field?

Do you have a T that you discuss this situation with in person?  If so, how long of a T relationship have you had?

If not currently working with a T... .have you ever?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this entire situation.

FF

FormFlier,

Thank you again for your reply.

I work as a psychiatrist nurse in the mental health field. I have for 15 years now. As I mentioned earlier, never did I think I would marry a person with BPD. In the beginning of my career, I worked on an inpatient unit with borderline females who constantly self-injured and assaulted others.  I didn't realize there were other types of borderline behaviors that seem just as debilitating.

I do see a T. I have for about 2 years now. Unfortunately, we seem to have hit a wall. Husband refuses to attend therapy. He also refuses any sort of psychiatric medication, even to the point where when he learned his blood pressure medication was sometimes used "off the books" to treat behavior... .he stopped taking it to the detriment of his medical health.

Back to the T... .I've become tired of doing all the work on my marriage,  especially after I realized marriage is supposed to be a partnership between 2 people. My T has explained to me that in a relationship,  someone with a personality disorder is unable to give 100% or even 1%... .since they have to put so much energy into dealing with their own issues.  I really don't know where to go from here. As you can guess, my T discourages me from having affairs.

I am a follower of Jesus (I know... .I gave in to the flesh and I'm not perfect) and have considered finding a biblical based therapist. However, I don't even have much confidence in that either. I'd prayed for my marriage for years and became fatigued.  I don't even want my marriage to work anymore. Just staying for the kids and hoping his impulsiveness and "I don't care" attitude cause him to leave on his own.

I want to thank everyone for your replies and support.

Thank you, NGY, for recommending "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me". I've heard of that book before. I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells' and it definitely spoke to my situation. 

Even the title of the book describes the relationship between me and H. Based on the way he treats me, he has no regard for me. However, he has expressed fear in the past that I'll leave. Not a good situation for either of us, since it also keeps him in a situation he really doesn't want to be in. I think I'll go look up the book on Amazon. 

Jacobsgirl360,


Thanks for giving us the information.  

Can you summarize the big things you have learned from your T... .and describe "the wall" you have hit in your marriage.  (full disclosure... .I suspect I am at a couple of "walls" in my own marriage)

One person can change the character of a relationship and "force" great improvement.  That being said, there is a limit to what one person can do.  

Another "truth" that is out there is the first 50%... .maybe in 75% of improvement that a person can do "by themselves is relatively easy.  The "law of diminishing returns" would say that the last 25%, 10% and 5% will be increasingly hard to reach and "may not be worth" the input of energy it would take to achieve that.

What books have you read... .which were impactful and which didn't connect?

I was impressed by your clear (nurse like) explanation of where you are and you understand you are at a "turning point"... .and a likely wondering what is going to happen next with your patient.  

I too am a Christian.  This BPD thing has made me question lots of things.

I've done quite a bit of work with "Christian counselors" and some were helpful... .some where disastrous.  If you limit the discussions to scripture... .you may be ok.  Tread carefully... .

I'm going to recommend a book... .

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Must-Be-Tough-Marriages/dp/141431745X

It is not a book about BPD... .so the lessons I would like you to get are very broad.  About "respect" in relationships... .and how "getting someone to stay" can be "counter-intuitive".  Again... .not a book for people with PDs, but since there is a Christian part of your story, I want to encourage you to understand that not all Christianity is passive and "forgiving"  (clarity... .forgiveness is always important, but many times Christians misunderstand what "actions" are forgiving... .and perhaps end up "enabling"

Also... .very judgmentally... .I suspect you are "helping" your hubby the wrong way with his health.  The book will help you evaluate your attitudes and the results you have gotten up to this point.  I'm betting you will change your approach to your husband health.

   

I can't imagine how difficult it is for a nurse to see someone they love not taking their meds properly... .hang in there.

I'll hush for now.  Please keep posting and learning.  My guess is that in a month, you will look at the "wall" differently.  

FF

Hi FF... .thanks for your reply... I hope you're having a good week.

I've been married almost 12 years. For the first 7 years or so, I was (foolishly?) willing to put 100% into my marriage while he put in none. Actually I didn't realize he was putting in none until I discussed the marriage with my T.  I'm also being treated for anxiety by a psychiatrist experienced in BPD (never in my life did I have anxiety until having a borderline husband). Both my T and psychiatrist have told me it's more likely that my husband "can't" function as a partner in the marriage rather than "won't ". From what I've told them, they feel the BPD doesn't allow him to be a husband or father since his disorder makes him so self-absorbed. 

The wall I have hit... .well, some of that, I admit,  is my own fault. The realization that husband can't,  or refuses, to work on the marriage has made me tired of futilely carrying it all myself. As I mentioned, I've spent time with men who don't have BPD... .and that was like taking a taste of the forbidden fruit. It made me realize how easy and loving it is to have a relationship with 99% of people in the world. It has made me question if I want to put in all this effort to likely receive nothing in return, except emotional and verbal abuse.

The most recent book I read was "Stop Walking on Eggshells", which really spoke to my situation.  Also "The Sociopath Next Door" was very eye-opening and a lot of the behavior described was consistent with my husband (he does have some antisocial and narcissistic tendencies with the BPD).

One thing I wanted to add... .and I believe others in relationships with BPD's will agree... .  the self-help books out there that are not geared toward personality disorders are total garbage when dealing with someone with BPD. LOL!  As a Christian, I've read a lot of Focus on the Family, and while their ideas of improving relationships sound wonderful,  they just do not fly for someone with BPD.

I was reading an article recently... .I believe in Reader's Digest... .and it said that according to a family therapist, the word "Ouch" can stop an argument in its tracks. So I tried saying "Ouch" this morning when husband started dysregulating and insulting me. I'm not even sure it registered with him. He actually ended up walking out of the house and taking off. Not sure where he went, but I know it's going to be brutal when he comes back (he usually doesn't get so bad that he takes off, this is new ground).

I will be ordering the book you recommended on Amazon! It sounds like it may be helpful.  I'll admit,  I know I've been enabling him for years and surely not helping him.

Just out of curiosity FF... .if you don't mind telling me... .  what does the BPD make you question as a Christian?

An update on my original post... .less than 2 more days until husband goes back to work. (Then a week later he'll have extended time off for surgery.) He's dysregulating pretty badly right now, so he needs to get back to a routine.  As for me, I'm due to meet with my non-BPD love in a couple days. Problem is, this will probably be one of those times that I'm so messed up emotionally from my BPD husband, that I can't enjoy my friend and give him the attention he deserves for all he does for me.

The Bible seems to be written very clearly.

It doesn't say this book is only for fully developed... healthy adults.

Does it really apply to humans that look like adults, yet function as children (on an emotional and cognitive reasoning level).  What about humans that sometimes are "full" and sometimes are "whacky".

It's late... .this may not be making much sense.  I'll try to come back to this after some sleep and give a  more thoughtful reply.

FF

Thanks for your reply FF. This is JacobsGirl360, by the way. Apparently my username was against the rules and so they changed ut.

As a Christian, I also have some questions regarding the Bible.

I've always been taught that the Bible is to be taken literally (I know some denominations are different). Yes, I know that means there are things I'm doing wrong.

So, in that case, it would also apply to the mentally ill. I know it teaches that God forgives. If person with the cognitive or emotional functioning of a child accepts Jesus as their Savior to their best understanding, they can be redeemed. I believe we have an understanding God who forgives them for their actions.

Something from the Bible that I always question is Ephesians 5:22 "Wives, submit to your own husbands as you do to the Lord".

Now, I would have no problem following this if I had a husband who was sane at least most of the time.  But what about those of us with BPD husbands. Allowing them to control all the decisions could lead to chaotic or even dangerous results.  Are we supposed to just go ahead, let them decide,  and hope for the best. What if BPD husband decides he should gamble with household money and not pay the bills.  What if he decided it wasn't important to feed the kids dinner?

We were actually reading this in Bible study last year and I came so close to questioning the leader. You know, "I'm asking for a friend". I doubt it would have gone over well.  

Update on my situation: Husband received paperwork from doctor's office today stating he could stay out of work until November. He hasn't even had his surgery yet. Still, he says he is staying out for every day the doctor will give him and maybe even applying for more time off. (He hates to work.) I don't know how I'm going to tolerate this.

jsgirl360

I know exactly where you are coming from.  I had an affair myself several years ago.  It was more about the emotional connection than anything else.  We slept together once after meeting up to spend time together over a month or so.  After that night, I decided that I had to confess everything to my W.  I broke things off the following day and approached my W with what had been going on.  Of course that made things go from bad to worse.  We saw several counselors and therapists, none of which really helped.  A few years after that affair, I had called our internet company to change our service.  The customer service rep was very nice and was talking me about her daughter that she was trying to get custody.  Her daughter happened to be living with her ex in the same city I was living in or somewhere near there.  I told her that I would be happy to try to find a lawyer for her in the local area.  Long story short, that developed into what I would classify as an online affair.  We never met in person but we did communicate quite a bit online.  Again, she was meeting an emotional need that I had.  I am just stating that as a fact, not as justification.  My W ended up finding out about that as someone that knew this person that I was talking to looked up my W's info and let her know what was going on.  That was about 10 years ago.  I have not 'strayed' since then.  I have been very tempted to but every time I think about it, I think about the pain that it has caused everyone (my W, children as well as myself) and as the saying goes, the juice is just not worth the squeeze.  I have felt starved for years but trying to find something to eat to relieve the starvation as tempting as it may be, pales when I think about the pain that will be involved with that. 

I read your reply about the Bible verse about wives submitting.  This has always been a hot topic in any church that I have ever been part of.  I think the real problem is that a lot of people like to pull out verses to meet what they are trying to 'prove'.  The part about wives submitting to husbands is just part of the verse, as I am sure you know.  The other part of it is husbands being required to love their wives and give themselves up for them as Christ gave Himself up for the church.  That is a tall order.  In order for there to be true unity, each spouse has to focus on their part of that verse, at least that is how I see it.  The husband has to focus on loving his wife and putting her needs above his own (of course this can be taken too far).  If the husband does that, then it will be or at least should be relatively easy for the wife to 'submit' to her husband as she knows that he values her and her needs etc.  If the husband is not fulfilling his part or the wife is not fulfilling her part, there is going to be disharmony and as is a common theme here, all we can focus on is ourselves, as unfair as it may be or seem at times. 

Woodchuck

I love chatting... and debating the Bible.

Yes... the best way to approach the Bible is a "plain reading".  I'm a words guy... .I don't like "literal".  Now... perhaps if you can read Hebrew and Greek... then I'll go with that. 

I just don't think "literal" can apply with so much translation and different version.

So... .many times I'll pull up an page on internet where they show you the same passage from 10 or so different "versions" (NIV, KJV... etc etc).  Usually it's the same... .but every once in a while you get something different.

That's where you pray and research.

Submit is tough... but I think reason can be applied.  Would God ever ask you to sin?  Therefor... if your spouse is asking you to... submission is not required.  Let's also be frank here.  God doesn't control people like robots, many times people submission takes time and understanding.  Therefore... .I don't see see submission creating an employee like thing where you get ordered around.

However... .if there is a dispute regarding which religious thing your family should be involved with (staying very general here)... .someone has to decide.  It seems clear to me that someone is your husband.

Boy... there is so much we can get into here.


Any "plain reading" of the Bible shows that marriages are valued... .right?  Divorce does exist in the Bible.  Yes... there is a proper legalistic part to it... ."I'm divorcing my spouse because cooking is bad... "  (just doesn't cut it)

I can see other situations where lots of prayer and searching for wisdom is needed.

Yes... the Bible is a "rulebook"... but if you stop there, you are missing so much more.  What is God really "saying here".  What is the purpose of the rules?  God is describing what is "best" for his people.  Why on earth would we want to choose something other than God's best?

FF

Thank you for your replies!

Woodchuck,

I too am having affair for the emotional connection above all things.  Of course, the physical affection is highly appreciated too. My husband isn't able to offer me either.

Reading that you confessed to your wife, shows that you really care for her and your relationship with her.  I pray that my husband never finds out. It would cause way too much drama and trauma for my children. In the beginning of my marriage,  I would never have believed you if you told me I was going to stray.  When things quickly started to get dysfunctional,  I pleaded to go to marriage counseling,  but he refused. Things got progressively worse.

It's at least refreshing that your wife was willing to attempt counseling.  However, you mention that none really helped. That brings me back to my doubting just how much can be done for BPD. Through my job and on my own, I've learned that many psychiatrists believe there's little hope for people with BPD. Basically all we can do is "house" them, I'm told.

As much as I probably should, I don't regret my affairs, online or real. Just because my husband can't tolerate emotional or physical intimacy,  does that mean I should go without it for the rest of my life? I feel like God's plan for marriage... .is for 2 people to be intimate with each other.  If that's not in the marriage, then what?

Regardless I understand my infidelity is a sin. Personally I believe that God did not plan for me to be lonely the remainder of my life.(Nor did he plan that for you or any of us Non's.) Possibly he has a plan for us to meet the right person down the road once we're in the right circumstances.  Not in a sinful way. Unfortunately,  as I've done in the past, im taking things into my own hands and possibly messing things up for myself.

I appreciate what you wrote about the Bible. I couldn't agree more! Yes, I would graciously submit to a husband who was willing to put my needs above his own. At this point, I would gladly submit to a husband who was willing to even consider my needs. Unfortunately,  with his illness, my husband is unable and unwilling to do this.  What you wrote is so true... .we have to consider both parts of that passage.


FF... .thank you for your reply!

I try to read the Bible every day. Not sure I'm so good at debating it. However I think debating is a good thing.  I agree that there are so many versions of the Bible. And they can make verses sound so different.  I also know that 2 different people sitting in a church service can glean completely different meanings from the pastor's message.

I agree that with regards to submission, God wouldn't ask us to sin.  It's coincidental that you mentioned it's clear a husband should decide which religious thing a family should be involved with... .

My husband was raised going to church (forced to by his mother). When we got married,  he believed in God, but was non-practicing.  I was raised in a family where God was the center of our lives.  I continue trying to be that way.

Around the time our first son turned one, my husband suddenly decided he was atheist.  (I know borderlines have a tendency to take on new identities... .maybe this is an example. ) He would go into a rage at the mention of going to church, and soon decided he wanted me to stop believing in God, and wanted our kids to be raised atheist.

Giving up something I believed my entire life was just impossible.  And I really did not desire to raise my kids in that way. From reading the scriptures and scouring Christian message boards, I understand I should have immediately stopped going to church... .and after seeing what an understanding,  obedient wife I was... .it would cause husband to come to God. I can't help but LOL just a little.  This might work wonders for a husband without BPD... .but a husband with BPD would not think these things at all.  Instead, it took lots of prayer, and God intervened.  Husband's schedule at work was changed to cause him to work every Sunday morning.  I now attend church with the kids without any trouble. Husband knows this, and while he is still an atheist (he doesn't want to be accountable to any person... .and especially not a god... . his words) ... he has quit trying to change our religious beliefs.  Both of his grown sons are non-believers,  so hopefully that will be enough for him.

I agree that the Bible describes what is best for us. All his commandments have a purpose.  He made us and he loves us, he knows what's best.  I know if I had followed the Bible, I might not be in the situation I am today. I'll save that thought for another time.

Always nice to hear from you.

 jsgirl360,
    My uBPDw of 34 yrs did just about the same thing with her religious beliefs as well . Also had religion forced her way from a young age (Her Dad was a Church Elder) At least she waited till after my 2 boys were in HS before she took that turn. She even took them to sunday school all through grade school even though she had stopped going to Church herself by then. Very thankful for the fact that she allowed my boys to decide for themselves on the matter. 
    Then just out of the blue one day she claims she no longer believes in GOD! Happened about the same time her DWI's & law problems hit. Has mentioned in MC that if there was a God he wouldn't have let her get into some much trouble w the law  Kind of sounds like a 8-9 year old understanding of God to me. Funny thing is she still pretty much practices the 10 commandments to a tee. Very grateful for this as well!
     
   The book Boundaries (Dr.Henry Cloud &r.John Townsend) was an interesting read that ties a lot of scripture into common relationship problems . Still working on building better boundaries in mine but at least I found out just how bad I needed some work on this. 
    This BPD stuff gets messy & is real tuff to deal with so don't feel alone in it.
    Hope & Prayers, NGY 

jsgirl360-
I know the feeling of not having your emotional or physical needs met.  For the past several years, most of the time when my W and I are close, such as watching a movie together or something like that, I haven't felt a connection.  It has more felt like the energy is literally being sucked out of me.  It is not a good feeling.  This is not the case 100% of the time and I don't believe that it is something that she is even aware of or could change if she wanted to.  The same feeling is usually there when we have been intimate.  The end result for me is usually not a feeling of closeness but more of 'emptiness'. 
It has been good in a way that she has been open to counseling.  At the same time, I believe it has been detrimental in the sense that there has been no improvement.  I am not against going to another counselor but I am very weary of rehashing the last many years over and over and over.  I think that your idea of 'housing' someone with BPD is very accurate.  I have felt like I am little more than a paycheck for the last several years.  We have lived on a single income for the most part and when she works, her earnings go into her bank account.  I have felt like I am just there to put a roof over her head and provide what she needs so she can do what she wants, how she wants, when she wants.

You bring up some interesting ideas about marriage.  I do not believe our relationship is what God intended marriage to be or really even anything close to that.  It is difficult to try to figure out what the 'right' thing is to do.  I know the grass always seems greener on the other side and sometimes it actually is, it is just hard to determine when that is actually a reality.  It is great that you can look at your situation and accept it for what it is.  I don't think that we were meant to live our lives unhappy/unfulfilled and going back to the 'housing' idea, I don't know that it is possible to be truly happy or fulfilled when in a relationship with a pwBPD.  I believe it truly does take two people working together and recognizing each others strengths and weaknesses and supporting each other in order for a deep relationship to work.  The more I read and reflect on things, the more I am convinced that this kind of relationship is just not possible in the situation that I am in and I have to decide what I am willing to accept and what I am not willing to accept. 
I wish you the best as you move forward!

Woodchuck

jsgirl360 and Woodchuck


bpdfamily is a "secular" board, yet we also allow religious discussions.  Generally we will title the thread "christian discussion about (xyz)" so that people understand the purpose and "scope" of that discussion.

Moderators don't allow people try to to talk others into a different belief.  Rather the  discussion is limited to competing views about the topic at hand, rather than allowing discussion about a "completely different view".

Your posts here are completely fine, but if a deeper discussion of "God's purpose for my marriage" is desired", I would suggest a separate thread. 

Good discussions... keep it up!  I would encourage you to think about "how you know" what God's will is.

jsgirl360

I've very interested in your husbands point of view about the marriage.  What has he said he wants out of it?  (please don't interpret... just repeat) 

Last:  I'm very glad things worked out to attend church without conflict... .     I don't believe in coincidence.

FF

FF-
Thank you for pointing that out.  I by no means want to or intend to impose my beliefs on anyone here or anywhere for that matter. 

Woodchuck

And you weren't... .my point was informational... .not critical.

What we try to avoid in a Christian discussion is someone suggesting that the Christian method is bunk, but what you really need to do is get a band of brothers together... and run around England banging coconuts together... pretending you are riding horses.

Full disclosure... I'm a conservative Baptist type... attempt to take a "plain reading" view of the Bible and I enjoy discussing/debating what is a very important part of my life.

For both of you guys... .Woodchuck and jsgirl360 I would encourage a "religious" only thread or two for the purpose of more fully exploring how religion plays out in your life and in the dynamics of your relationship.

Perhaps there are parts of that we can use to move things to more stability... perhaps not.

FF

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Notgoneyet... .you are so right that this BPD stuff is tough to deal with! I'm thankful for finding this board.  It's really great that your wife allowed your children to choose their own beliefs.  Her understanding of God does sound concrete, which is typical of BPD black-white thinking.   I've met several people with BPD who adamantly don't believe in God, and also chastise those who do.  To me, it seems like the self-centeredness of the disorder doesn't allow them to put anything (God, for example) above themselves. 

Woodchuck... .
Have you ever heard of an energy vampire? I know it sounds far-fetched, but you can Google it. They are people that can literally suck the energy out of energy-sensitive people (aka empaths). Many BPD's are energy vampires.  My husband is one... .so I can relate to the drained feeling from being around him. I feel the difference when he leaves the house too... .I'll be completely energized. I even have trouble sleeping in the bed next to him, because the energy that surrounds him is so negative and turbulent.  Like tonight for example,  I couldn't take my nap before work because he came to lie down early. 

I can also relate to being a "paycheck ". I'm the main breadwinner of the family. He works, but he mostly keeps him check while I pay the bills and buy food. He'll spend his money gambling,  giving money to his grown sons (also BPD), and paying off his credit cards.

And trust me... .when you're with a pwBPD the grass most likely *is* greener on the other side. (Sorry couldbn't resist!)  Not always, but the majority of the time.  I've accepted that a BPD cannot and will not keep up their part of the vows and participate equally in a marriage partnership.  I feel like it means the BPD is going against God's plan for marriage... .even if they can't control their actions.  So then what to do? Is it really the BP's fault... .or the person who raised them? The generation before that?  I wish I had these answers. And I also wish you the best going forward.

FF... .
I didn't actually expect this post to turn religious. I have seen some of the "Christian discussion" threads. I'll start one for sure if I think we're going to get deeper into religion.  I wouldn't mind starting one about God's will as I just finished a Bible study on that topic.

As for my husband's point of view on the marriage,  that's a difficult one since we can't have any kind of deep discussion (he goes into fight or flight mode if we move beyond superficial, regardless of the topic.)  In the past, he's told me he's wanted me to "have his back".  The context of him saying that was at a time I didn't agree with something he was doing that I thought to be harmful, so therefore I'm a terrible wife.  He wouldn't go beyond that.  My thoughts are that he doesn't take marriage very seriously.  I'm his second marriage,  he's my first. He drops the "divorce" word at the drop of a hat, starting on our honeymoon.  There have been times when he has seriously asked for divorce when I didn't choose to eat at the breakfast restaurant he wanted.  So again, I don't think he takes marriage seriously or even has a concrete idea of what he wants.

About the church situation... .I also don't believe in coincidence!  As for me, I was raised a conservative Pentecostal (Assembly of God), and still am to this day.

jsgirl360-
Wow!  I had never heard the term 'energy vampire' before but after looking it up, it really hits the mark.  I feel the difference when I am not around my W.  Others notice a difference as well.  I have been told by several people that have seen me both with my W and on my own that I seem much more relaxed and happy when we are not together.  I have never been able to put my finger on the feeling but I think you hit the nail on the head. 
It is interesting that you bring up marriage vows.  I have attempted to discuss vows with her to little avail.  She wrote the vows for our wedding.  Yes, I did step outside of the marriage and had an affair and broke the vows that we took.  I also broke the vows in many other ways as has she.  Not to the extent of having an affair as I did (to the best of my knowledge) but the fact is that no one is perfect I doubt that there is a soul alive that has perfectly kept their vows.  The only focus here though is how I have failed.  I have the same questions as you and wish I had the answers as well.  I wish there was more black and white as to the best way to go about things. 

Woodchuck

Have you asked them for help in guiding your choices (or pointing you in right direction in the Bible) regarding marriage, affairs, family?

Regarding the "dropping divorce" thing.  That is more BPDish than any reflection of how he "truly" feels about marriage.  Perhaps some push/pull in there.   I would challenge you to consider times when he has said that.  Then... .see if he was calm... or worked up about something.

I bet you will find a pattern.

FF

Woodchuck,

While I can't say I'm glad you're in the vicinity of an energy vampire, it's good to know I was able to share some relevant information with you. I've read on the concept of energy vampires for years, and they are very real (at least to sensitive people). The feeling you described of having the energy sucked out of you when you're with your wife just screamed "energy vampire". Do you ever notice that she seems highly energetic... .or "charged" after you have had the energy drained out of you? (Sometimes this happens,  sometimes it doesn't.)  I agree that she is most likely unaware of this happening and cannot consciously control it.  I too feel more at ease when I'm away from my husband.  Around him, I have to constantly "walk on eggshells", awaiting the next barrage of criticism or verbal abuse.

One more word I'm going to throw out there to Google: empath.  It would be interesting to see of any of the traits describe you. 

Regarding marriage vows, the same goes for my marriage... .we both broke them. For him, "love and cherish " went right out the window and never came back... .as a result I ended up looking outside the marriage to find that love. It makes me think of that verse we discussed earlier in the thread... .how a man should put his wife's needs above his own... .and the woman should submit to her husband.  It doesn't work so well if both partners in the marriage aren't doing their part. The same goes for vows, if one spouse refuses to hold up their vows, it becomes more challenging for the other spouse to do the same.

FF... .

I haven't directly asked people at church for help regarding my situation.  It's a large congregation,  and I'm a pretty active member.  Even though it's a church, I know people gossip and judge, so I try  to keep my marital issues private. I know... Galatians 6:2 "Carry each other's burdens... ."  I just don't feel comfortable sharing certain parts of my life.

It's no secret at church that my husband is a non-believer. He occasionally visits the church for dinners, etc. Church seems to be a "trigger" for him and there have been a few times he became triggered and started dropping F-bombs while at a church event. It was pretty humiliating to me.  Church people picked up pretty quickly that my marriage is troubled.  During the alter call on Sundays, while I'm praying, someone will often put their hands on me and begin praying about my marriage.  That's fine with me, but I feel like "that ship already sailed" and it just might not be God's will.

I have attended Bible studies, conferences,  workshops... .where I'm able to learn - without asking out loud - exactly what God says about marriage and affairs.  I know that despite the fact that my husband does not love me, nothing justifies my affair in God's eyes.

I agree that "dropping divorce" is a BPD behavior for sure. Each of the times he did it were during times of "stress"... or "perceived stress" (Not wanting the same breakfast restaurant as him? Yes, I understand that BPD's often have lower stress thresholds than nons.  But wow!)  So, no, he was never calm when "dropping divorce ".

This brings me back to his thoughts about marriage.  Looking back at the superficial discussions we've had, to him marriage has been about what I can do for him, or wondering why he's not happy. My needs have never been considered once. Such is the self-centeredness of BPD.

jsgirl-
Good morning!  Thank you for the additional idea regarding empaths.  I looked it up and took a test (mostly just for 'fun' as I don't put a lot of stock in online tests)  Here are the results:

You are pretty intuitive and can usually tell when people are lying. You don't need to be near water which means your second chakra is probably doing well. You prefer to be in nature and this is another very good indicator of being empathic! You are indifferent to animals and plants. You would benefit from meditating in the forest. But you have a gift for influencing the moods, energies, atmospheres, and environments around you.

You are your own person, other people's energy doesn't effect you. You scored fairly poor on the "Mirroring Others Unconsciously" portion of the quiz. It looks like you have a tendency to mirror other people and their energy. Your score indicates that you would benefit from learning to run energy, ground yourself, and protect your aura.

You scored toward the middle on the "Has Protection Tools" section of the quiz. This means that sometimes other people's energy gets into your aura and body, but you mostly have things under control. Good Job. Wow, sounds like you need to slow down and give to yourself before you heal the world! You would benefit from an energy healing yourself!

The results do seem to have a some truth and kind of validate some things that I have learned here.  I have not noticed that she seems highly energetic or charged after I feel like the energy is drained out of me.  She just seems oblivious to it all. 

As far as vows go, you are correct, it is much more difficult to keep them when the other person seems to not care about keeping them.  What I have found interesting is that the term, 'broken marriage vows', almost always refers to having an affair.  If anyone actually reads their vows and understands them and does an honest self evaluation, no one keeps their vows perfectly.  For example, one line in our vows is, 'I will allow you to differ from me'.  I do not feel like this has ever been the case.  At the same time, I don't want to try to minimize or compare infidelity to other aspects of marriage vows.  Stepping out of the marriage in that way is extremely damaging, at least in my case.  I realize that all that I can do is look inward and work on me even when it is extremely difficult.  I have to allow her to be accountable for the choices that she makes, not try to hold her accountable. 

Woodchuck

Woodchuck... .Good evening/night! Thank you for your reply.  

The reason I asked you to look up empaths, is that empaths are often the most vulnerable victims of energy vampires. You describe well the feeling of having energy sucked out. I'm about to start reading a book "odging Energy Vampires" - hopefully it will be helpful.  I'm especially energy sensitive.  When my husband leaves the house, I can actually feel the energy "lift". I used to have the same feeling with my father (who I now suspect was uBPD) - for some reason I couldn't rest until he walked out the door. Now I understand.  I am also sensitive to "good" energy.  When someone exudes a really positive, calming energy, I can enjoy just sitting by them and "basking" in their energy. I know this might sound really strange to someone who isn't energy sensitive.

As for marriage vows, breaking certain ones are more damaging than others. I know what I did could cause a lot of harm to my children if they found out. At the same time, I know I would have never gone outside marriage if my husband had loved and respected my feelings. Because he doesn't,  I can honestly say I don't regret breaking the vows. The man I'm having an affair with is the first man in my life who seems to love me and honestly care about me.  I don't want to part with that feeling.  

As for someone diagnosed with BPD being accountable for the choices they make... .that's a tough one. They seem to blame everyone except themselves. It may be some kind of defense mechanism.  My husband even has admitted he can't take responsibility for his actions.

I'll write more soon... .hope this is legible ... .I'm in 4 hours of sleep today

jsgirl360,
Hi.  I usually hang out on the Learning board, so I'm coming to your story late, but the title struck a chord with me.  The quote above also jumped out for me, because I have felt exactly the way you describe.  My way of putting it was "My husband has no interest in what I am giving this other man, so I'm not taking anything from him."  I may have been committing adultery, but I wasn't stealing. 

There is a lot in your posts that I can relate to.  I was the sole breadwinner, primary parent, and "marriage keeper" for close to 20 years.  I can tell you the day I gave up on my marriage.  It kind of amazes me that it took 18 years.  I never intended to betray my marriage vows, even after I gave up.  But then there was this man who WANTED me.  He loved me and cared for me and gave me all the things that my husband had been refusing to provide.  And all the time and energy I poured into this new relationship... .dBPDxh never felt the loss of it. 

While I did a really good job at getting myself to a place where I could reconcile what I was doing, I couldn't stay there.  I started having panic attacks.  I lost 10lbs in the 6 weeks that I was carrying on my affair.  I yelled at God to leave me alone.  I couldn't leave my marriage, it wasn't going to get better, and this wasn't hurting anyone.  But then my affair partner expressed an interest in leaving his marriage for me and I couldn't live with the idea of trading my happiness for that of our spouses and children and all the other people who would be hurt.  So I ended the affair.  And I found a final reserve of "fight" left for my marriage.  I prayed that God would help me to see the ugliness of my sin and to feel love for my husband again.  I confessed my affair to my husband because the most hurtful part of my marriage had been the lack of intimacy and I knew that if I was always needing to protect the secret of my affair I could never have true intimacy with my husband. 

It has taken me over 4 years to regain what I lost - what I gave away - of myself in having my affair.  This is going to sound self-centered, but of all the losses that was the greatest.  I can say that affair will always be the greatest regret of my life.  I don't need to leave any opening for future regrets being greater because I know that I will never allow myself to reach a point of self-deception where I will willfully do so much damage to myself and others again. 

What I can't quite fully regret - being loved by my affair partner.  It opened my eyes to the perversion of the word "marriage" that I was in.  It opened my heart to the belief that I could be loved that way.  My affair partner's last words to me were "I truly hope that you can find someone to love you the way you deserve to be loved." 

I spent 2 more years trying to make my husband be that person who would love me the way I should be loved.  I put my all into repairing the damage I had done to my marriage through my affair, then tried to address the damage that was there before my affair.  I was determined to have the type of marriage that glorified God.  But, as has been observed already, that kind of marriage takes two.  While dBPDxh put forth an amazing amount of effort after I revealed my affair, the old patterns quickly set back in.  We did LOTS of marriage counseling.  Ultimately, our definition of marriage diverged to the point where we couldn't sustain it.  I can't say I have biblical justification for my divorce.  I definitely don't have all the answers.  I just know that I did everything I could do to save my marriage, but I couldn't do it alone.

The one thing I wish I had done differently... .I wish I had done less to "save the marriage" in the years before my affair.  I wish I had been willing to have him leave the marriage when he threatened to, or been willing to demand a separation when the chronic issues were not being addressed.  I don't know if it really would have been possible, but I wish I had left the marriage with my integrity intact and then been free to be loved by someone who was free to love me. 

I hope you know that I'm not saying all of this to try to direct you.  I'm just sharing my story.  If you have any questions about it, please feel free to ask.  I have to run right now, but I will be back with a few questions/comments on your situation.

BeagleGirl

This is very insightful. Members here who have been in affairs have a very different perspective going in than they do when they look back.

BeagleGirl-
I feel that I could have written almost exactly what you wrote just.  My biggest regret is the affair that I had.  The relationship lasted a few weeks and culminated with us sleeping together.  Immediately after that, I knew that I had to confess the affair to my W.  I had felt loved like I hadn't in years by the woman that I had been seeing but at the same time I felt absolutely horrible about it.  It is amazing how you can feel loved and guilty all at the same time.  Like you, we went to many counselors, both before and after the affair.  None really helped anything.  After the affair, it was like our relationship and anything that happened prior to that was erased in my W's mind.  To her, the affair is where all the problems started.  It didn't/doesn't matter that there is a lot of evidence of turmoil for years prior to the affair.  We have stayed together since the affair (12 years now, 18 years total) and are seemingly on the verge of divorce.  At the time of the affair, I felt like our relationship was over as there was talk of divorce and her moving out.  I mention this not to justify my decision to have a relationship with someone else but to compare it to where I am at now.  I am starved for love/affection/validation etc but as hungry as I am, I cannot allow myself to step out to gain that again as the price that is paid (in my experience) is much to high.  The hurt and pain that I caused my W and subsequently our children etc is just not worth the good feeling that I might get for a few days/weeks/months.  At the same time, I cannot judge or really fault anyone that seeks to have their needs met by someone outside their marriage.  As you stated, I believe that for me, it would have been much better and healthier for everyone if I had filed for divorce and kept my integrity and then move on.  There would have been much less pain involved that way.  It pains me every day, even 12 years later to see how much pain my W still deals with and is unable to resolve.  I am at the point now, with my wife telling me that she wants a divorce, to let her go.  I have fought for our marriage for years with little success and as the saying goes, if you love something, you have to set it free.  I have been far from a perfect spouse and am to blame for a good share of our issues.  I have come to the point where I realize that no matter how much the past is rehashed and how many times I apologize, I cannot go back and undo any hurt.  I am understanding that my W may be unable to process her pain and grief and find a way to move on while staying in the relationship.  My focus is shifting from saving the marriage to doing what is going to be best for our children.  They do not deserve to live in a home where there is endless conflict.  Thank you for sharing your story and insight!

Woodchuck

jsgirl360-
Good afternoon!  Hopefully you were able to get a bit more rest.  I seem to be attempting to function on 4 or so hours of sleep more often than not. 
What I have found interesting is now others notice a significant difference in my energy/anxiety level when I am not around my W.  I don't really fault her for that especially as I gain more of an understanding that it is not anything that she is doing intentionally or consciously.  I do wish that there was a way for things to change.
I completely understand not wanting to part with the feeling of being loved and appreciated and wanted.  I did not want to give that up.  It was amazing to feel that way.  For me, I felt like even though I believed that my marriage was over at the time, I still had to bring the truth to light.  I understand that everyone has different thoughts and feeling regarding these kinds of issues and I can identify with where you are at and keeping it to yourself. The most important thing is to stay true to yourself.

Woodchuck

My concern is that choosing to have an affair is choosing to be with someone who is not available. Someone who is really available would also choose a partner that is available. Very few affairs lead to marriage. I have had many married men try to have an affair with me, and all of them lacked empathy for their spouse, and I believe would have eventually treated me as badly as they did their wives.

jsgirl360,
Okay.  I'm back with those comments/questions.

As I said before, even 4 years and a divorce and a mountain of pain later, I can't fully regret being loved by my affair partner.  That experience was the catalyst for so much change in how I viewed myself and the nature of love and marriage.  While my marriage did not survive, I hope that he's not just staying married for the sake of the kids.  I hope that he and his wife have been able to heal and build the marriage that he wanted.  I also hope that I will fully own the message of my worth that he started to give me before I commit to another relationship.  As my T says, it's nice to have a man tell you that you are worth his love, but it makes all the difference to know that for yourself without needing to be told. 

I now question whether my affair partner would have been able to maintain that level of love and care for me.  I think that, had we taken the road of leaving our marriages and continuing our relationship, we would have been torn apart by the obligations of our respective guilt.  Maybe we could have weathered it, but I think he would have felt the need to give more time to his kids because of the guilt of breaking up the family and I would have resented it and felt horrible about the fact that I resented it. 

Enough about me.  Here are the questions I promised:

Where are you with your relationship with your affair partner?  Have either of you considered or discussed a more permanent relationship?  Do you think that you will be able to maintain this affair long term?

Where are you with your relationship with yourself?  As Woodchuck said, "The most important thing is to be true to yourself."  Are you able to be at peace when you are alone with yourself, or do you only feel comfortable when with your affair partner or distracted and busy?

How much energy do you want to invest in bettering your marriage?  If your husband started to show change/growth, would you feel the desire to leave the affair and work toward something better?

What would you do if the affair was discovered?  Would you let your marriage implode, or would you try to repair if your husband wanted to?

I know what the answers to those questions were for me when I was in your shoes.  I know that I was asking myself most of them at the time.  You may be as well.  If you don't mind sharing your answers with us, I hope it might lead to more clarity for you about what you want. 

BG

BeagleGirl... .thank you so much for your reply!  So much of what you said, resonates with me.

You put my thoughts into words perfectly: "My husband has no interest in what I'm giving the other man, so I am not taking anything from him." This couldn't ring more true!  If anything,  husband might be feeling some relief since I no longer bother him with unwanted physical touch or attempts to have deep conversations. Like your ex-husband,  my husband seems to "not feel the loss" of the time and energy I'm putting into the affair.  That's a part of me he has never desired.

I admire the bravery and courage you had to confess the affair to your husband.  I know I could never do the same because his reaction would be much different.  Many years ago, when I was still in love with him, I could see how dysfunctional things were getting and begged him to try counseling.  He refused, and told me point blank he would not work on himself or the marriage.  His rationale is, the marriage should work out on its own, otherwise its not worth saving.   However, from what I've encountered,  even the best marriages require both sides to put in some effort.

If I were to tell him about the affair, there would be lots of terrible drama. He would most likely move out. And worst of all, my kids would be traumatized. I would rather they don't experience any more trauma than they already do with his daily BPD behaviors.  Also, I don't want to hurt my husband's feelings (even though he has no regard for mine.)

Maybe it's from the years of abuse I've tolerated, but I don't feel any guilt about having the affair.  If I had a husband who loved and cared about me, I probably would be unable to live with myself right now. I guess after all these years, I've finally decided I deserve to be loved, even if I'm going about it the wrong way.

Another thing you said that really resonated: that you wish you would have let husband leave the marriage when he threatened to. I couldn't agree more. Especially at the beginning of the marriage,  he would threaten to divorce/move out at any kind of conflict (he has no desire to solve disagreements in a constructive manner). These conflicts were anything from his teenage niece not liking me to him not wanting tacos for dinner. At the time, I was emotionally attached to him, so I begged him not to go. Looking back, if he was willing to leave over something so minor, I should have just let him go. And, like you say, I would be in a very different situation right now and be able to love someone freely.

In response to your questions (I appreciate you asking these, they also help me to reflect.) I've been in my affair for about 7 months now.  He has said he wants more and wishes we were in a more permanent relationship,  but that isn't possible for him. In his culture,  divorce is looked upon as shameful... .so he has no intentions of leaving his wife and shaming his family. (I believe he's being truthful .) I stay in my own marriage for the kids, so it works. I would stay in the affair as long as he wants me. However, he's only in my area for work. He lives in a different part of the country but spends most of the week near me. Problem is, at any time he can be transferred very far away and there would be no way for us to be together.

Honestly,  I don't think I would want a permanent relationship/marriage with him, for the simple reason that he had an affair with me. I know it might sound like a double standard, since I'm doing the same thing... .but if he's doing this now, who is to say he wouldn't do it to me with another woman? How do I know he isn't right now?

In regards to marriage in general,  being married to a BPD has traumatized me so much that I could never imagine myself taking the risk of getting married again. I would be willing to have a relationship,  dinner dates, long walks through the city... .but for me, inviting someone to share a living space with me would be too much risk... .what if the person turned out to be BPD?

Next question... .I do feel at peace with myself.  Actually I feel the most at peace when I'm alone and have time to relax (doesn't happen often).  I know it might make me sound awful that I'm not feeling guilt for the affair.  Usually,  if I suspect I hurt anyone,  I'm the type to feel guilt strongly. In this case, I just don't.  I think I might have just decided I deserve to be loved and valued after years of hearing that I do not.

Over the years, I've invested massive energy into bettering my marriage.  For years I was more than willing to try to make my marriage work completely on my own, often as my husband pulled in the other direction. As it's written in other posts, it takes 2 people to make a marriage work. The emotional and verbal abuse eventually got to be too much, and I fell out of love with him.  I don't think it's possible for me to feel the same towards him that I once did, especially after experiencing intimacy with an emotionally healthy person.  The chances of my husband showing change/growth is slim to none, since he seems so determined to not change. If he did, I might be willing to try, but he would have to pull his share.

If the affair was discovered,  the marriage would most likely implode.  Husband would leave, and honestly there isn't much left of my marriage to salvage.

Heading back to work now... .thank you for all your insight and information... .  also. I hope that you do find that loving relationship that you very much deserve.

Zacchira... .I suspect the same of men who have affairs. This is why I would never marry the man I was having an affair with, simply because he is having an affair with me.  

I know that sounds like such a double standard.  

I'm not readily available myself, so for the moment the affair is a way to get some emotional and physical needs met, needs that haven't been touched for years.  For the long term, I know it couldn't work.  

Woodchuck... .Thank you... .and yes, I did get some rest.  I can definitely understand your anxiety or even "walking on eggshells" around your wife.  It could be the energy vampire phenomenon... .or do you think you could even be feeling anxiety because of the unpredictable nature of her BPD behavior?  I've experienced that too.

You are right, it's amazing to feel loved and wanted... .especially after so many years of not feeling that way. It's not something I will readily let go of... .especially not to work on a relationship with a pwBPD who cannot contribute anything emotional.  

I wanted to add something... .I honestly don't blame my husband for his behavior.  I believe he could put in more effort to control it... .but I don't think he would choose BPD if he knew there was something different out there. Still, I know BPD was never his choice and something he will always struggle with.

Hoping you have a great weekend

Jsgirl360,

I'm sure that BeagleGirl has also said that she wished she let her husband leave, or words to that effect.  What I'm hoping you will see and reflect on is not so much what BG would have "let" someone else do, but what she wishes she would have done herself.

Thoughts?

FF

jsgirl-
Good morning!  I have often wondered if things would be any different if I did not admit to the affair and was able to keep it hidden.  It is really a difficult question to answer.  I think that if there are two emotionally healthy people in a relationship and one has an affair, that it would be healthy for the offending partner to confess and both partners work towards healing if that is what they both desire.  If one or both partners are not emotionally/mentally healthy, I agree that it become a bit more complicated.  Yes, the 'right/moral' thing to do in our society would be to confess but does that mean that it is really the 'right' thing to do in that situation?  I am not sure.  It is interesting to contemplate how things may have been if I kept it hidden.  Due to the already elevated conflict combined with the guilt that I decided I could not live with, I don't know that things would have been better if I had not said anything but I find myself questioning my decision to confess at times.

I think you are very wise to look at things that way.  I have never understood why someone would have an affair and then marry the person that they are having an affair with.  It does work out at times but as you pointed out, the relationship is not based on trust.  Both parties know that they are both capable of having an affair and there is no way to really get around that and it is bound to cause problems later on.  I can easily see conflict escalating quickly because of this and the anxiety over wondering if the person is having an affair whenever there is conflict etc.

As to your question about anxiety.  I think it may be a combination.  I get the draining feeling even when things are 'good'.  It is a very odd feeling to be physically close to someone, having them 'cuddling' with you and feel like you are being sapped of any feeling of connection or something like that.
I am getting to the point where I am not blaming my W for her behavior.  I am realizing that she is most likely unaware of what she is doing.  Coming to that realization helps a little with reducing the pain and frustration but it does not help with the loneliness and emptiness.

I hope you have a great weekend as well.  Hopefully you can catch up on some sleep.

Woodchuck

From your reply to me, I think you fully understand that the man you are having an affair with is not marriage material and is not really available. What I am wondering about is if you have ever thought about how having an affair could be related to choosing to marry a husband with BPD and your overall functioning in relationships. You now have two unavailable men in your life, unavailable in different ways though there might be some unrecognized similarities. I have had relationships with men that had the spice of being forbidden though nobody was married or in a relationship, which created a lot of passion and hot sex, that would have not existed indefinitely in a normal long term healthy relationship. When these relationships ended, there was pain and just that empty feeling inside that I had for many years because I really did not know how to have a loving relationship with a man and was attracted to only unavailable men because I was unavailable as well. I am wondering if you might consider thinking about what a healthy relationship would look like and how you would get one if the opportunity were ever to arise. I am in no way suggesting that you leave your husband or end your affair. What I am trying to say without offending you, is that by beginning the long journey of doing the work that will enable you to attract an available man into your life, you will start to attract all kinds of healthy people, and you will be a happier person for it. Just my thoughts. I await your reply and am not offended in any way if you disagree with what I have written.

Hi! I want to thank everyone for the replies to my post. Sorry for the delayed response,  it's been a busy weekend between work and other commitments.  I wanted to make sure I was able to give a thoughtful reply.

Zachira,

Thank you for your insightful response and no, you didn't offend me at all. I completely agree with you that I might be unavailable for relationships.  Thinking of some of my previous posts, I think I mentioned I couldn't picture myself marrying again... .a dream relationship for me would be living in separate houses, meeting for dinner or a walk when we had the time, and then going back home to our respective living arrangements.  I have even thought that I wouldn't mind dating married men because they can go back home to their wives.

I know... .sounds terrible.  I didn't always feel like this. Mainly, I think living with a BPD husband for so many years has traumatized me and repelled me to the idea of marriage or anything more than a dating relationship. Also, I've never been in a healthy romantic relationship... .ever. Before my husband, in my early 20's, I tended to go for users/abusers.  A reason for that may be that I had a mentally ill father who I now believe was uBPD. At one time long ago I did hope for a happy, healthy marriage... .but I think I've been jaded.

So yes,  I'm unavailable towards romantic relationships.  Is that possible to change, or am I permanently damaged? I'm willing to work through those issues eventually,  especially if the time ever came that I was single again. What I'd really like to do now is attract healthy people into my life, not for romantic reasons but for friendships.

Woodchuck,

Again, I completely relate to being "sapped" of energy around husband.  Not only when he is near me, but even when he's in the same house. The only time I feel rejuvenated is when he drives away. From what you've said, I believe you may be "energy sensitive" as well.  I don't believe our spouses are aware at all of what they are doing or that they are energy vampires. They might not even have the same "sucking" effect on other people who aren't as sensitive.  I wish I had some advice for you on how to control it, but the only solution for me so far has been physical distance... .the same we would treat a "real" vampire!

FF,

Thank you for your reply, and again, I apologize for the delayed response. Reflecting on what BG wishes she had done herself... .left the marriage with her integrity intact rather than have an affair.  I feel that's the best choice for anyone. It's something I'll have to carry with me for the rest of my life, knowing I'm capable of having an affair. If I ever do become single again and meet someone,  I might have to hide my past (more lies)... .because if my affair ever became known, the question would always be in the back of someone's mind if I would do it again.  I don't feel guilt at the moment; down the road that could completely change. Finally,  I went against God's word... .the one who loves and cares for me the most. I know enough that when the positive emotions of this affair wear off, I might be left emptier than I started. This may all tie into what I wrote above, about not being able to see myself in a committed relationship in the future.

Update on H:
He had his surgery last week. It went better than expected,  meaning recovery time may be shorter. He's already having a difficult time being at home "off his routine", yelling and swearing at anyone in his vicinity. As I mentioned in a previous post, the BPD is more of an issue than his physical recovery.

One thing he's doing lately is listening to my phone conversations and yelling/swearing at me or the caller on the other end. A few times I've had to abruptly hang up to avoid further embarrassment.  I'm now leaning more towards texting or stepping outside while I'm on the phone.  Once he returns to work, I'll definitely be more appreciative of the little things I took for granted,  like having a conversation on the phone or walking out of a room without being criticized.

You would like to attract healthy people into your life for friendships. I recommend you read the book "Attached" by Levine and Heller, available on Amazon. It talks about how to heal our unhealthy relationship patterns and how to attract a healthy partner. Yes, it is about attracting a partner and you are not single, and what is in this book applies to attracting healthy friendships
which is the start to improving all our relationships with self and others.
I have for many years been involved in unhealthy relationships. I have done years of therapy, and now I have some really healthy friendships. I am still working on the relationship piece, and believe I will get there eventually. It is hard when we have been programed since childhood to please others and forget about our own needs.