BPDFamily.com

Has anyone been menaced by their expwBPD after a relatively more peaceful period? My uBPDexw left me for her boyfriend 5 years ago and she didn't bother me so much because she was too busy splitting him black in the last couple of years and in the last month she has been very aggressive.

I think that they broke up and she's trying to get full custody of the kids so that it increases her child support. My D12 is going through a rough period and she's been alienating D12 against me, D12 is staying with the ex, she is transgender and says that she's not comfortable at my house and wants to stay with mom because I invalidated her. I said things like she was wearing pink socks and I said that girls where that, that kind of thing.

My D12 is also SI and during the summer break she's stays at home at my exe's, my uBPDexw has been menacing me and the daycare because she wants to take out S10 and have him watch D12 at her house on my time. I put him in daycare on my time, she said that 50/50 means join decisions and she doesn't want S10 in daycare because it's not good for his self esteem and that he needs to be watched by D12 my response to that was D12 is SI god forbid that something happens in front of S10, it could scar him for life and the best thing for him is routine and to be around his peers at daycare.

I served my ex and have a court date at the end of this month because she broke the court order, she refused to give me the kids at the end of June for a week, that was my time I filed in court to enforce the court order and to add a police clause in the court order because they can't do anything if I don't have that in the court order.

I got served yesterday from her because I served her. The current child custody is 50/50 she wants to do 50/50 just in the summer time and for the rest of the year she wants to have me have the kids every other weekend. This court order has been in place for 5 years. In her claim she says that I'm harming their education, mental heatlth and emotional health and she wants to make sole decision in regards to all of their needs. She also says that I don't accept my D12 being transgender and that her and the P had a safety plan in place and that if she returns to my house I don't have a safety plan. My D12 stays overnight at friends houses do they have all of their sharp objects and poisonous substances hidden? She says that I'm harming D12 because I don't by her gender specific clothes for boys the claim literally looks like it was written by a twelve year old.

She's representing herself I'm going to respond on Monday this is absolutely insane how she is trying to get full custody has anyone had a similar experience where the ex starts being aggressive after a certain amount of time? I would not have thought that this would happen in the last few years. I'm self representing and I have two court appearances at the end of the month. I'm trying to enforce the court order and add a police clause and she's wants to change custody and access.

If you are such a danger to the kids then why be willing to let them go with you every other weekend and especially half the time during the summer?

Totally valid about your 12yo watching S10 being unsafe. 

I think you could work up a safety plan for your home, yes?

I see what she's doing that's the entire school year she doesn't want them with me during school the school year.


I was talking to my mom about this last night and she thinks that she probably knows that D12 is in no shape to watch S10 she thinks that S10 is their to watch their 3 year old baby sister that she had with her bf. My S10 is autistic he can't watch a 3 year old.


My D12 is SI, my exuBPDw kept asking me what my safety plan is at my house and I haven't responded to her. Think of it this way has she put away her can opener? D12 could open a can and self harm with that, she will find a way to hurt herself regardless of all the measures. I'm not saying to not put away knives and anything that could be a potential danger she thinks that her house is safer than mine. How?

My D12 is going through a transition and also has anxiety and depression. It was hard to take the news at the beginning my exuBPDw was invalidating because she said that she had accepted him right away. My D12 dropped a bomb there is no one way that is right everyone has their way to reach acceptance. She's using that to alienate me from D12.

My D12 is going through some really difficult psychological stuff right now and I'm not a professional, neither is my exuBPDw if she were to attempt take her life in my house then I would take her to the hospital and have her admitted. Aside from putting away meds, sharp objects, etc that is my safety plan.

I mean write one up to bring to court.  Maybe the safety first plan here can help with a basic outline. 

Any 10 year old shouldn't be watching a 3 year old much less work an SI older sister in the home.  Of course that's your ex's little kid... .

Anyone who files anything against another person can expect a counter strike. Had she filed something first, are there things you might have wanted addressed as long as you were stuck going to court anyway?
My DH's uBPDex doesn't file anything partially because she's got other kids to focus on who aren't teenagers who see through her the way my SS and SD now do. But also partially because she knows to be concerned that we have a few items we'd want to bring up in a counter filing.

Does your county require a "significant change of circumstance" to alter custody? If so, then that's the first test her suit needs to meet.

I remember the long, drawn out, and exhausting it was to even get to the actual court date with enough evidence to get things changed. Do you think your ex is high functioning enough to collect and present evidence rather than simply show up, complain, and make unsubstantiated accusations?

Good idea   :thought:


I went to her house and she wouldn’t give me the kids unless we renegotiated a new court between us - she didn’t want to go to court.

He has chronic back pain and hasn’t worked for most of their r/s he must of been getting some kind of disability payments. He no longer lives with her I think that her cash-flow is tight. I told her you can’t break the court order her response “I can and I am”

I can’t do anything if she breaks the court order because I don’t have a police clause I have to go to court to get it enforced. If I didn’t file in court she’ll think that there are zero repercussions if she breaks it. What she wants is that I give up custody of the kids by bullying and harassing me. I had to send her a clear message you do this then these are the consequences.


Yes and why did she wait for five years to file? I’m working on my responses on my day off tomorrow so that I have a draft by the the time i have to go to the resolution center and file my responses Monday.

I do no agree because there are no material change in circumstances to warrant a change in the custody and access agreement


She attached emails where she’s harassing me I don’t think it was wise to attach that she’s not high functioning enough she will do whatever she needs to do like get affidavits filed but she doesn’t see that she’s doing everything wrong and it fails at each part. The daycare sided with me and cut me a break and said that I only have to pay for two weeks because exuBPDw refuses to pay her portion. I have access to the employee line from work for legal advise and talked to them about how she was trying to dictate who watches the kids on my time and he said that it was ridiculous.

Hey, Mutt. I have zero experience with the court system, but, from what I’ve learned here and other sources, judges like to keep the status quo. If this is true, You have nothing to worry about. Pile on top of that your ex’s irrational requests. It’s been 5 years? The judge will ask her “why the sudden change?” She’ll show herself, sadly. Perhaps this is where she digs her hole deeper. I know that that is not the outcome that is desired, but maybe it’s necessary to further put things in their proper place.

You have a D12 that is identitying as a male. This would be confusing for any parent. There is no way to turn on a dime and adjust to something like that as a parent. I would hope that a judge would recognize this as well, and see your ex wife’s unreasonable expectations and inability to see anything that isn’t her POV.

You’re right. She doesn’t want to go to court. My ex threatens it all of the time, but never follows through. I remind her that her dirt becomes public if she goes there. It sucks to go there, but they don’t fight fair. They lack any and all reason, and unfortunately aren’t above using innocent children as weapons.

Mutt, don’t sweat it. Let her dig her hole.

Can someone define a material change in circumstances which might be considered by the courts? We should realize also that Mutt is in Canada. 

Here in my state in the USA I filed for Change of Circumstances when I wanted to change from Shared Parenting to sole custody (legal guardian).  I basically had to document why Shared Parenting wasn't working.  From filing to the magistrate's decision was 17 months.  It was a lengthy process, almost as long as the divorce itself.

As Nope remarked, it was almost predictable that your ex would respond "tit for tat".  You filed to fix loopholes in the order.  She then filed to change the parenting schedule.  Did anyone actually sit down and calculate how much more she would get if she did have majority time?  I suspect it's not as much additional as she thinks.

Does she work at her full income potential?  In the calcs, try to get the court to accept the concept of imputed income.  Imputed means that even if she doesn't work or doesn't work much, she should be calculated as though she did have gainful employment.  (If she claims she has a young child not yet school age and so she doesn't want to work, that's not your child, it's on that child's other parent.)

Good to know FD. Even while on retainer, I never asked what CoC might be exactly.  I should have.

Mutt,

It sounds like you understand that you have to have a police clause... going forward.

I think you did the right thing by filing.

If she is doing this herself, please clarify that you have legal representation (however that works up in Canada).

I'm wondering/hoping that she can dig herself enough of a hole that you (with assistance of a good lawyer) can get some positive changes made.

FF

Thanks JNChellHell for the encouragement and you believe that you’re right my mom and my exgf said the same thing relax and don’t worry. I have a tendency to think of the worst case scenario.


You’re post reminds me of how she’ll go right up to just before then then she stops I’ve gone to court many times with her and I think that she’s scared of authoritian figures like a judge - every time.

It’s like she plays a game of chicken with me, she can’t earn fairly her tactic is simple she tries to wear you down hoping that you give up that she gets want she wants.


She asked me for my income tax for last year I forgot about it because of all of this drama I gave it to her I asked her for hers a couple of times and she still hasn’t responded need because back except saying that she forgot her password. Last year I had to ask her a couple off dozen times it took her three or four months after it was due. I have to go to the resolution center tomorrow and maintenance enforcement is in the same building I’m going to talk to them to see what they can do if they withhold my payments until she gives it.

I also want to file to get it recalculated I have the forms with me judging by what she claimed last year I would be paying 100 less than what I am now and I want that money back in my pocket.

I didn’t know about imputed income it sounds like it’s to prevent abusing the other person financially.

It sounds like you understand that you have to have a police clause... going forward.


I should have put it in there years ago most of the court order is stuff that I got this board and I think that it was Foreverdad that suggested the police clause. It was in the the draft of the court order and she didn’t want it I worried about her at that point and how she felt - it was a mistake at that point that cost me later. She rolled right over me knowing that the police won’t do enforce it if I’m in court to enforce the court order the why not be proactive at the same time?


I met someone almost two months ago she’s a survivor like us she doesn’t have the help of this board and her exH sounds like a pwNPD or very strong narcissistic traits. She ended up in jail and he took her D away from her she lost everything st one point. She’s a nurse and she told me that she had gone into her pension to get back on her feet. I didn’t know that you could do that.

My plan so far is to represent myself up until a point where if I’m really in over my head or it becomes too complicated then I’m going to go to the bank and explain my situation. I like many others can’t afford legal representation I’ve been working at the same place for 16 years and if I really have to Im going to try to unlock my pension and retain a lawyer I do t want to do it because that’s money for later but if it’s for the kids I have no qualms.

This should actually serve you well.  Prepare and evaluate for the worst, enjoy that it didn't go as badly as it could have.

Have you actually been to court before, without an L?

FF

I did the last time but I was basically holding the court off until I could figure out how to get a lawyer. I didn’t qualify for legal aid i appeaed it and got a lawyer.

So far what I have been doing is calling my EFAP line for legal advice I’ve called them about three times I actually just got of the phone with him. I read him the affidavit and he laughed when I said it sounds like a 12 year old wrote it he said that she wrote this herself didn’t she?

I told him at the beginning of the call that this is too hard to explain because it sounds too crazy so I’ll read a part of the affidavit. I said yes she wrote it herself and he said good she’s giving you want you want and getting the ball rolling he said come from the perspective of the kids, sound reasonable and objectionable attach all of the emails that support your response and respond to all of the points.

Mutt

I'm not a fan of going to court without a lawyer (FF's lawyeresque statement).   That being said, I'll disclose I've been in court many times (the majority of times) without a L.  (mostly real estate stuff)

I have a "pre paid legal service" where you get free phone support and document review.  Best monthly money I've ever spent.

I write up my filings... .they check them... .I'll correct something.  Then I talk it through with them... .then I go to court.

I've never gone up against another L in court, without my own L.  (that's not what you are facing... but just saying... that would be a tripwire for me).

You've always struck me as a thoughtful guy, so my guess is you will be fine with appropriate legal support.

At some point before court I would call back your line and have an affidavit ready to request a "pause" in the proceedings so you can get a lawyer.   This would be your "oh crap" button that you pull out, if it appears that the tide is going against you.

Or she shows up with an L... .or something whacky happens.

Much better to continue a proceeding, than try to overturn a decision.  Hope that makes sense.

FF

They have court counselors which know as much as lawyers they’re the ones that helped me file. They’re there for you before the court session starts I can ask them questions. I asked the L today if he thinks that I should retain a lawyer and he couldn’t advise I just told him that if i feel like it warrants it then I’ll retain one.

If she has an L I won’t go up against an L no way that’s suicide. I’ll retain one. I could be wrong but I don’t think that she’ll retain one she has surprised me in the past though. For now I’ll see how July 30th goes. I guess that I’m expecting that there shouldn’t be a problem with enforcing the court order she hasn’t given me a response I can’t recall when you the other party gets the response? I’ll ask the court clerks tomorrow unless someone here knows?

I have exhibits that clearly shows her taking the law into her own hands which courts don’t like. I can’t see how a wrench can get thrown into that but you never know with a pwBPD. Her application to change the court order is  complaining to the judge to try strong arm me.

She has tons emails that she sent to me about taking S10 out of daycare so that D12 can watch him she’s complaining to the courts that I didn’t respond to all of the emails then because I dont give her what she wants, the daycare director sided with me she decides to go to court and get a judge to side with her? It’s aggressive and it shows that she’s still can’t take no for an answer no is a choice that I have that she’s not respecting and she keeps at it.

OK... .if you have tons of emails, obviously have the all ready to submit, read... or whatever the procedure.  I would also prepare a quick summary that would say something like 12 emails this, 3 that, in 7 of my responses I said (xyz)... that kind of thing.

Anyway, it might make you look prepared and ready to move things along.  Most courts have a procedure where you can ask the other side to agree that a big chunk of evidence shows (fill in blank) to try and move things along.

If she is there by herself... .you know she won't agree.  Then you prove it says what you say it says... .she will not look good.

Perhaps your phone L can talk you through this.

And... I would really encourage that you know specifically what to do in order to "pause" a hearing that appears to be going bad.

I really doubt that will happen... but... .

FF

I am a 15 year veteran about dealing with BPD and the courts.  Don’t fret too much about being served.  Give the petition to you L and have your L respond back.  Most courts frown upon a violation of the Parenting schedule.  Focus on that with your L. That should be the first thing out of the shoot with  your counter petition.   In my state, "significant change of circumstance" (SCoC)is a pretty high mark for anyone to change the custody agreement.  If you have had custody 50/50 for five years, you are in pretty good standing with the court. SCoC usually means the other parent is on drugs, in jail, has moved out of the state, abusing the child, etc.  Since this is not the case with you, the BPD must show a significant change in the child’s environment or a significant change in YOU.   Most Divorce L know how to counter a petition with your own joint stipulations going back to the BPD.  If the BPD is representing herself, that is not good news with the court. They will ask the BPD to retain a L.
Lastly, ask your L to ensure that when you exchange financial records, that it's done simultaneously between lawyers. Don't do it yourself. Most states have a boiler plate financial affidavit to use. Be honest with your data.    Again, Don't do it unilaterally. Make sure that both of you are using the same form that lists out assets.   You might never see her financials. You need to protect yourself and your D.

Have you been able to see our talk to your kids yet,  even your sons? Was your youngest unilaterally pulled out of daycare?

Mutt, I'm sorry this is getting ugly. It sounds like your ex is in a dysregulation, which cannot be good for any of the kids, especially D12.

BPD behaviors can make for an easy target. What you are describing sounds overwhelmingly complex even if you were two mentally healthy happily married people. Autism, transgender, half sibling.

I have all of this in my family, too, and it is a lot to manage, if managing is even the right word.

You and your ex are both riding out recent splits. The safety plan is a good idea, and I understand why you filed a court motion. I also agree with Panda39 that a counterstrike was to be expected given the emotional reactivity that has always been there.

Turkish's suggestion to put together a safety plan is a good idea. It might also help to find a support group for parents whose kids are transgender, or to find someone who specializes in helping people catch up to their transgender kids. Your D12 has had a head start exploring what she's experiencing. You are likely not caught up to her, and are falling further behind if there is no new input from others with more experience.


This comment would have ended my relationship with SD21.

To this day, she considers her dad to be a bigot because he said that transgender was not something he knew anything about growing up.

She was that sensitive.

It is so common in the transgender community for parents to be rejecting that the rare ones who are supportive stand out. Being supportive is not easy because the experience is often so foreign that we make innocent mistakes.

We have trans loved ones with BPD parents, so there is likely (in addition to middle school stuff) a heightened emotional reactivity.

Even if you get the court order, D12 is saying she feels unsupported by you and it will only get harder to control where she stays. It might be time to look at your relationship with her independent of the court order and treat that as a separate topic.

My SD21 went by a male name when she turned 16 and wanted SO to start calling her that. She is now identifying as non-binary and is in a relationship with a boy, and considers her gender identity to be fluid. She is back to using her female name. Plans to transition have been dropped for now. My assumption is that this topic will continue to shift and morph, altho I never say that. I validate whatever she is experiencing because to do otherwise would have zero impact and only stress our relationship.

Validating someone's gender identity is one of the most challenging things I've ever had to validate. If you don't agree with it, or don't believe it's real, or wish it could just go away, it's important to talk to other parents about that, or spend some time in trans forums to find out what they wish their parents did.

When SO's kids were old enough, they voted with their feet. His youngest (ASD) would get dropped off then walk all the way back to his mom's.

This is really hard stuff

Thanks for sharing that with there’s a lot of useful information here. I don’t drink I don’t do drugs I’m sober there’s been no changes in five years.


She kept them for a few days at the beginning of the month and was demanding that the court order gets changed and she was waiting for my responses. D12 hasn’t come back since the long weekend at the end of last month and beginning of this month.

The last time that D12 was here she checked the dishes that I had by the sink and found a knife I got an email back from my exuBPDw saying that the house isn’t safe - the rest of the knives and consumables were put away. It’s black and white thinking it’s zero chances she was looking for an excuse to not be at my house. It’s hard to see D12 being manipulated by my exuBPDw because she’s doing this to validate herself that she’s a good mom and a better parent than me.


I agree with safety plan too and you’re right about finding a support group. I think that I needed to hear this so thank you livedandlearned


I got called a bigot too and some other things. I didn’t grow up with this I have a hard time accepting it and I can’t wish this away - like you said she’s ahead of me she’s angry at me she’s a different person. Aside from that I think that there is anger from the split and kids from divorces will direct that anger at the strongest person because they know that they can take it.

The black and white thinking rigid thinking and anger from D12 all worry me but she’s an adolescent it’s to be expected sometimes I think that she’s knows that the subject matter makes me nervous I wonder if there’s a hint of trying to control You’re right that this is a seperate issue I need to repair the r/s w/ D12. It’s hard because gender takes up so much space now it’s all she talks about - I’ve had to ask her if we can switch the subject for awhile because it’s all about gender all of the time.

Perhaps just "admitting" to D12 that this is all new to you and not something you know anything about could help her have some empathy

Perhaps even a step further that I don't know anything about transgender, but I know a lot about you, so I'm hoping you can help me understand this part of your life better... .and that you will have patience with me while I learn this new stuff.

Or something like that.

FF

You understand validation, so you have a head start in that department. It sounds like what you need is validation yourself, for others to hear what kind of pain you're experiencing with this recent revelation about her gender. Try to get that validation from others who understand what you're going through. She can't and won't give you that. She is trying to desperately hard to get validation for herself.

Maybe you can communicate with her and ask her if she will meet with you for as long as she feels comfortable. Just listen -- tell her you miss her, ask her what pronoun she wants to be known by and ask her if it's ok you might forget sometimes as you get used to things changing. Has she thought about changing her name? Does she want you to read something?

And take a deep breath because from what I've learned, there is a lot of sorting that happens with gender in middle school. She may be gender fluid and will surprise you with all the stops and starts. SD21 used to look like a boy with short hair, strapped her chest down with bandages, wore boy's clothing, men's deodorant, male name, male pronoun. Now she has long hair, wears make up, jewelry, is dating a boy, is back to her female name. I won't be surprised if there is another shift in her life. The only person who needs to be ok with her gender is her.



Naturally.


It may be true that she can be angry with you knowing that you can take it. But it also sounds like she (rightly) senses you are rejecting what she is desperately trying to accept.


It's good that she's talking to you. And it's ok to have boundaries around the gender topic. Given the tension about gender, it might be better to gently redirect her than ask her to switch topics.

With SO, he eventually realized what worked was to listen and accept. SD21 did briefly talk about reassignment and SO did backflips in his mind. It helped him that he could talk to me -- I wasn't on the emotional roller coaster and have friends in the LGBTQ community who made some astute observations that eventually played out. He was set to find a support group when word got back SD21 was dating a boy and seemed to be going by her female name. We'll see if he needs that support group later down the line... .

You're right livednlearned I need a LGQTB support group. I really appreciate that you're sharing your experience here with me, my D12 talked about gender fluid too she cut her long hair off and has a short haircut wears boy cloting and wears a binder for her chest.

You're right I think that her not feeling safe means that she is feeling like is being invalidated and rejected and I have to work on validating and accepting her. I sent her a text today asking her how her summer is going.

I got an email from the ex she managed to get to the director at the daycare and the director says that she won't accept S10 unless we sort things out I had called an L and he said that it was ridiculous of her to try to dictate where I can have the kids in care on my time. She managed to scare the director she knew that I wouldn't give her what she wants to she put the squeeze on the director.

I called the daycare and asked them that I want it in writing why they can't provide care for S10 I want them to do it officially. I talked to the supervisor there and she said that the licence board said that uBPDexw can't tell the daycare that the kids can't be there on my time. I'm really frustrated but this is something that I can take to court on Monday she wants me to drop S10 off at her house so that he can watch D12. So far S10 doesn't have care on my time.

I'm going to call another daycare and see if they have spots open, the kids have been going to this daycare for years and have r/s's with the teachers and the kids there.  If she wants to leave S7 at the current one on her time I'm just going to tell the daycare that I'm not paying my portion because I'll put them in a different daycare on my time.

She's escalated all the way to court to try to get custody and access changed and she threatened the director with the media if S10 remains there on my time. She's determined and she's not going to stop with this - the last time that she was this determined was five years ago when she left. She managed to leave with no job and no money.

Again,

10 year old watching a supposedly SI 12 year old? How is that safe for either of them?  It isn't.  A 10yo isn't a safety plan.

I hope you can get the written statement from daycare.

I would also hope that you can amend your decree (if that is the right word) to state

"mother shall not interfere with daycare choices during Father's time"

I also wonder if she has pushed to far and you can ask to be the "primary decision maker" for daycare, because of what she thinks is safe.

Can you force her to testify that S10 will be watching the 12 year and the 3 year old (hope I got ages right).

Perhaps add to the decree that 10 year old IS NOT to be left in charge of either of them (3 or 12) without another adult present.

FF

She's not in the city I think that she went to her parents 6 hours away. So by her logic she should clear it with me if she is leaving town with the kids on her time? I'm trying to serve her with my response to her claim and her car isn't in the parking lot for the last couple of evenings and the lights are on when we would leave town we would leave the lights on to make it look like there is someone home.

I talked to the director and initially she wanted to stay out of it but it's complicated if I ask her for a written document for why he can't attend that daycare if I'm not happy with their answer then I can take that up with the licensee board. I know that they don't want that so I asked her to make it official and I want it documented.

I came to a compromise with them she said that she doesn't want to deal with uBPDexw and told her that on Monday June 30th S10 won't be attending daycare but Tuesday she's letting him attend. My uBPDexw threatened the daycare with the media and the director said that she doesn't want that attention with the daycare she asked if on Monday I could bring this up in court.

My uBPDexw asked me if I'm going to take S10 to her house on Monday I have the day off I may just bring him to court with me because I don't have anyone to watch him.

Hey Mutt. Sorry you are having to go through this. I am in Canada and my DH has been to court several times prompted by his unBPDx. Not for the same issue as you; once when she tried to get sole guardianship of their special needs son and once trying to get child support for their adult son. She was unsuccessful in both cases, but both of these hearings required tons of prep. It is all so draining. Hang in there and look after yourself.

DH’s ex used a L the first time. When she was unsuccessful, she self represented the second time. DH used a L both times. In the second case, the L initially thought she might get DH to go to the hearing on his own. The L was concerned that it would seem as though DH was ‘ganging up’ by having a L. But the case was complex and so in the end the L spoke at the  hearing. The L took great care not to be too hard on unBPDx. The L said if she was too pushy, the judge would likely step in to ‘help’ unBPDx if she got flustered.

It was most important that DH saved all the emails from unBPDx, which painted a picture of how abusive she was. She even added some of her negative emails in her own evidence, failing to see how bad they were. We spent many hours organizing and summarizing those esmails so DH’s L could use them in both the written submission and in the hearing.

In the year before the first hearing, unBPDx tried to use her emails to build evidence, writing them to summarize her position, but the judge caught on to that. She also wouldn’t let her son come to our home on one of the weeks (they had 50/50). She thought it would look good on her, but the judge used that in her decision to say that unBPDx couldn’t be trusted to allow their son proper visitation.

So my advice is to keep using a L to help you prepare, organize any correspondence you have so you can submit it and then reference it. Focus on the evidence that shows any harm she has done to the kids (versus trying to show her illness). Include any other professional assessments you have (eg doctor or teacher notes) that support your efforts. UnBPDx was highly critical of professionals, even the ones she had selected, and the judge wasn’t happy with that. She also called their special needs son ‘retarded’ in court and in her documentation, and didn’t seem to notice the reaction the judge had every time she used the term. She seemed oblivious to how she came across.

Keep documenting all interactions you have right up until you get your time in court. Focus on facts, not feelings. Lean on the good folks here to vent or bounce ideas around. Lean on a L for advice or, as you said, get one to represent you if she does. And keep being a positive influence with your kids. In the end, DH got sole guardianship of his son, even though it was her who applied for it. And the judge wasn’t willing to award her child support to keep enabling another son, who is an addict.

Will think of you as you go through this. 

Hmm... .offhand that doesn't seem like good thing for him to be present for... .

So... .for clarity... .is there a written document from the daycare.

Perhaps something specific to put in the draft court order is that in addition to no interference with YOUR daycare choices... .that she is barred from threatening media "attention" on child care providers.

I think the more you present her issues, "inside" of your solutions... .the more unreasonable she may look.

Thoughts?

FF

Hi Mutt, I hope things are going ok.

I was going to suggest you try to keep communication to email as much as possible. That would give you a paper trail for court. Maybe write ex a VERY brief (BIFF) 4 sentence email asking for the polite return to the existing agreement. This might get her to email back a long response (rant). You could use this as evidence or her unreasonable nature. Anything in writing helps. I found if I responded with a super brief polite BIFF response I would get a tirade back and those letters accumulated. It would show how unreasonable she is.

Also yes gender fluidity is more common than we realize. Breathe relax and give it time. Find a pride centre and go there to learn. Get a counsellor who is experienced and go a bit to learn. Join a support group for parents. Ask your daughter to teach you and help you become informed. Ask her to be patient as you are older and not as informed as she is. Let her be the expert. Read everything you can. This will also show the judge that you are sensitive and forward thinking. Know your local suicide crisis lines, kids help line etc and have the numbers in your phone. The Kids help line is 24 hour now. They offer all kinds of support. There is even a text service in some areas. Take the ASSIST training. ITs available in lots of areas. https://www.suicideinfo.ca/workshop/asist/ Show the judge you are proactive.

Also when my friend was in a similar situation where the older kid didn't want to come home. He started doing all kind of really fun cheap or free stuff regularly with the younger kid. He said nothing to the ex or older kid. He didn't really tell the younger kid until the last minute either. No advance warning just "get your coat we are going to ... ." Went to watch the kite festival. Went to a historic park for steam train and hay wagon rides. Went to watch Canada day fireworks over the river. Went to street festivals for mini donuts and to walk around. Went at least twice a week to fly their own $10 kites in various parks. Went to a dog show, farm show, and rare coin show. They went everywhere they could that was free or cheap.
He didn't make a big deal of it he just let the younger kid kind of wander around and see the sights and have an afternoon of new experiences. Then he just listened to the kid and discussed whatever came up even if that was boring was the theme.

The tales of then fairly regular and ridiculously fun activities trickled back to the older child. These activities were never spoken about in advance so the kid eventually came home to see what all the fuss was about. The activities continued and the older kid joined the fun. It was most effective. He didn't spend a ton of money. They checked out every free admission festival and just wandered around seeing the sites and eating corndogs. They went to every large public park to see what was happening and have a hike/fly kites. They built kites from patterns found online (literally cost of paper and string). They got a summer park pass for all the city attractions and went to them. They hit the zoo, a couple of museums, a kids art festival (free), a space and science centere (free), watched river boat races with the crowd (free), Outdoor music festival (sat outside with the overflow in the park (free), symphony in the park kids afternoon (free), ballet in the park (cheap), corn maze (cheap), famers market (free), crafters festival (free). Drove to a local public beach or two (free). Outdoor pop up movie nights in local communities (free).

Eventually if became a mission to find free stuff and both kids got really into it. There were lots of pools and other places the had free evenings or free afternoons and man they did it all. It really was fun and they had such a great time together. It continued on into the winter. They went skating at all the public parks in the city that winter with a thermos of hot chocolate. Cost of gas and cocoa. They would discuss at length the best and worst outdoor rinks (all free admission). The went sledding on all the pubic hills. They went to ice carving festivals and everything they could find. Older child came right along. No pressure no invitation just dad and younger kid off having a blast and of course older kid was welcome. Bring a friend if you like. That kind of thing.

It was quite the relationship builder and he lost a ton of weight just walking around. He said the secret was to shut up and let his little guy lead. His little buddy has some challenges so it helped to not warn him in advance just we have someplace to go so grab a coat. Otherwise he will argue whine say he doesn't want to or freak out and have a fit. Best to just run an errand like get gas or milk and then head over to check out the kite festival. By the end of the first summer it calmed the kid right down, built an amazing relationships and they cancelled their cable.  Seriously. The kids were to tired to watch anyway.

So maybe that is a few ideas to tuck in your pocket for future application. Ok off to work. Hope your day goes well.

This is excellent advice.

That's a great resource, hope2727. Thanks for posting it here.

Mutt, another one that you might want to share with D12 is https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

SD21 spent a lot of time there and it really helped her. She listed it as an important resource for a friend's D13 who is going through something similar to D12.

Suicidal ideation is a big concern in the trans community

I don't think that it is a good idea either.


No there is no document they don't have a good reason to not take him he doesn't cause issues at the daycare, they have to have a good reason to reject them because if they don't then I can go to the licensee board and complain and they don't want that.


It's a pretty black and white line already she shouldn't take the law into her own hands.


Things are good I have another issue I'm dealing with, liking two women at the same time it's complicated  When I was single I wanted to be in a r/s now I almost wish that I was single again it's tough but it's a topic for another discussion.

Back to the topic at hand that's a really good suggestion S10 just got a big brother recently we had applied three years ago and they email me free and cheap things that they can do around the city that's stuff I can do to. Thanks for taking the time this morning before work.


Thank you livednlearned I'll check that out, I also want to thank everyone in this thread that share - you have all been huge help.

Hey Mutt just got in the door. I am glad you like the suggestions. I am also glad you are dating. I've pretty much abandoned all hope . I know two other people who did the do everything free thing. One is my sister who raised two amazing kids on zero budget. They scoured newspaper columns and the internet and got everything from swimming lessons to a play structure free. It wasn't always about the money it was about the experience too. I think your son might enjoy the activities and your daughter will hear about them 2nd hand and think hmmmmmm maybe i am mission gout on al the fun and come join you. Besides its just a challenge that begs a team approach to having an amazing summer.


Now do tell about the women? Enquiring minds want to know.  :)

I like how you look at it that way.


 :)

I created a new thread here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327515.0

I'll add more later the woman that i've been with for awhile wanted to check something on my phone last night and she jokingly said that I'll check your texts then I said I don't want to give you my phone she was trying hard to get me to give up my phone I told her that it's a matter of privacy I don't share email or phone passwords with girlfriends.

She kept texting me up until 11PM last night, I left her house at 930 and she started texting me this morning about this again it aggravates her when she doesn't get a response from me. She's angry and hurt and was lashing out at me.

She was giving me a hard time if I told her what she wanted to know then she would give me a really hard time.

On another note I finally got a text from D12 she's asking if I went back to your house what changes would you make?

It's a good question.

The dueling women situation can't be making any of this easier for you to concentrate.

What would bring some peace to you at the moment, of the things you have control over?

I get the kids this weekend that will help me to make my mind off of things I could ask the other two I need some space for a few days.

Im thinking that I should answer this after our court date Monday. My D12 was looking through my dirty dishes the last time and was looking for a sharp object to report it back to mom. I know mom I was being manipulative but I wonder if that text is going to go back to uBPDexw

Hi Mutt, I've been following your thread here for a bit. Tough stuff.


This is really interesting. Seems positive -- like if she didn't care, she wouldn't be dialoging with you.

How do you think it would go if you said something like "You're thinking about changes at home, huh? What kind of stuff is on your mind?"

... .instead of right off the bat saying "I'm going to do X, Y, and Z", and D12 is like, "Well, I wanted A and B, and you're so insensitive, you should have known".

This might keep the focus on her and how she feels. Let me know what you think... .

kells76

Mutt your daughter's question is an excellent sign. Maybe ask her what changes she thinks would be most helpful and supportive? That way you can hear her ideas and validate her experience without necessarily agreeing but maybe gaining some understanding.

kells76 makes a really good point.

The question does have a hint of something else to it... .

Asking a validating question in return like hope2727 suggests may be the best way to put responsibility back on D12 (BPD mom if that's the case) so that you are participating in her care without making promises that box you in.

I followed your suggestion kells76, I don’t get point number 1 I don’t swear in front of the kids and I don’t raise my voice at them sometimes they give me a hard time and I have raised it but I’m not abusive  towards them and I don’t alienate the kids maybe she means invalidate? This sounds like it’s coming from uBPDexw and not D12. This is the text verbatim.

"Would you be willing to work with me on these points, one at a time?"

If she says ok. Start with 1.

"Help me understand when you feel verbally abused. Can you give me an example? That will help me reflect on a specific instance so I can learn from it."

Put the responsibility on her to do the work she is insisting that you do, without knowing what it is you specifically did or said.

You also aren't agreeing that you are verbally abusive (no validating the invalid)

Be prepared to not like her response... .

The goal is to have her feel safe enough to come spend time with you.

And carefully create a text chain in which you are impeccably supportive and validating toward D12.

I had to do this some yesterday when S15 got a bit emotional.  He started saying always and never... and all that about "they way I was/am".  

Granted... this was in person, so a bit easier than text.  I think I said something like... "I see... .please help point me to an example... "  and was quiet for a while.  (note... I could have done a lot better with the words... best I could do in the moment)

My "big picture" was to listen.

At the end of the day... .he was upset about his phone privileges being restricted and wanted to stop working.  Nothing came of it (no examples).


So... .relating this back to Mutt's situation.

What do you think your daughter "wants" or what is the "underlying issue"?

FF

Hey again Mutt, hope you're having a good weekend... .

Everything LnL just wrote is exceptionally good advice. This is because following it would mean you begin to "rewrite the narrative".

My guess is that most of what your D12 texted is "the narrative" about you, which most likely comes from her mom. "Mutt is verbally abusive. Mutt doesn't respect Mom (translated into D12). Mutt doesn't "realize" my assertions and so should get out of my life. Mutt is the one alienating the kids."

Ok. There are two main ways to counter "the narrative" about you. One is like boxing -- face it and hit back: "I never verbally abuse you! You are so disrespectful and manipulative. Stay with your mom until you can learn to listen and obey."

This is rarely successful as I'm sure you know.

The other way is like jiu-jitsu: roll with it and use the power they think they have "against" them (you're not really "against" your kid, but you get the picture): "Oh no, I can imagine that would feel awful if you felt like I was verbally abusing you. Tell me about a time when you felt that way... .I want to hear what you have to say."

Do you see how doing option 2 counters the very assertion your kid is making? If you were REALLY verbally abusive, wouldn't you be doing that -- instead of inviting criticism?

At some level the disconnect will hit her, though it may take repetition: "Mom says Dad is verbally abusive, but he isn't right now, so, huh... ."

Your D12 sounds straight out of this article by Dr Craig Childress -- not sure if you've seen it before, so here's the link:

www.drcachildress.org/asp/admin/getFile.asp?RID=63&TID=6&FN=pdf

I have a few thoughts about the safety plan, too, but I need to save that for a new reply :)

Small point here... but if you were ever going to make this point to you child... you are "inviting understanding".  It may or may not be critical.

Filling in knowledge gaps:  A few years ago I did some family therapy.  The big point the therapist was making is that "knowledge" is much less important to a child/parent relationship than the "safety" and/or "the feeling".

Many times a kid will have a point of view that you KNOW if they had the full picture... .they would change it.

Much better to listen... get the facts right... and "be there" with your kid in that moment and file away the "knowledge gap" for the future.

Then... .in a day or two "Hey bud... .remember we were talking about (fill in the blank)... .you know, I've been thinking about it and I wonder how that would seem to you if (insert knowledge).  (pause... see if they want to chat now)  "listen bud... .no rush, think it over... we'll talk more later."

Let them connect the dots.

FF

Good point.


Another really good point. It can feel so urgent to "get the truth out there" when the kids are mistaken about something. It may be wise to resist that urge and give them a day or two to feel safe and heard. Then, when emotions are back down to a 2 from an 8, try what FF suggested.

---------------------

Some additional thoughts on the safety plan.

This is very interesting:


I find it fascinating that when D12 found a knife, she didn't SH. Curious, huh?

What would it be like if instead of playing defense with the safety plan and Mom, you "saw her and raised her one"?

Could you remind me if Mom has shared the specific details of the Mom's house safety plan with you? If so, what if Dad's house safety plan was EXACTLY the same as Mom's house? That might cut the legs out of the idea that Well, Mom's house is safer, so that's why I'm not going to Dad's.

Alternatively (though you can tell me if this would be too much for D12 to handle), what if part of the Dad's house safety plan was this: ":)12, I love you so much, I don't want you to get hurt. I know you want to be safe here, too. Part of the safety plan here is that if you ever have a knife or scissors or X, Y, or Z without asking me first, I will call (911, or the hotline, or a counselor, or something). You mean so much to me, and I want you to be safe."

That might really call her on the carpet -- does she actually want to be safe at your house? Or does she want leverage so that she can be at Mom's?

But that might also be too much for her right now. It would be interesting if she reacted strongly against that safety plan, though, because it seems very... .safe.

Just some brainstorming.

This was me... early in figuring out BPD.

I'm a very thoughtful... factual person.  Facts drive my feelings.

As children mature, they tend to move from feelings driving their world to facts driving their world.  The "feeling" of a secure parent they can "deal with"... helps this process.

BPDish types never really did this maturing thing.  Or perhaps it is situational, such as when emotions are high "feelings" take over... .but when calm, they can be quite rational.  (my wife can be like this... .emotions show up quickly... .often with NO WARNING)

0-100 in nothing flat.

Anyway... .one of my biggest "takeaways" from my own therapy and family therapy is the importance for children (and BPDish types too) to be able to speak without be "corrected in the moment".

I erroneously thought I was being helpful to "correct in the moment"... I was actually being unhelpful.

It would appear my kids are much more relaxed around me now.  And... .when I "mean business" or "correct"... .they get it quickly that I'm serious.

FF

Thanks a lot for the responses and advice so far  |iiii I want the give an update on court. Court wasn’t bad as iti thought that it would be. The judge  denied adding a police clause to the court order she called it drakonian, it causes too much trauma to the kids. I told the judge that I don’t want the 10 year old watching the 12 year old because I’m worried about the SI in front of the 10 year she said that it’s not a good idea that the 10 year old watch the 12 year old and that she can’t xhoose where I have the kids for childcare on my time. .

Her eyes kids d of popped out when she said that she wants to change custody and access and said that she couldn’t do it there we would have to go to special chambers. In the meant time the judge changed the court order to reflect that I’m not going to seek access of the 12 year from not until special chambers. I’m not sure what to think about that I can’t force the 12 year old to come to my house. The judge didn’t touch on the four days that the ex wouldn’t give me the kids i told her that I wanted the police clause to be proactive and have to go to court to enforce it. I think that she let it slide because from the beginning of the month until now the two younger boys are with me.

I went to go get an application to change the child support because my exuBPDw finally gave me her taxes from last year and she makes pretty close to what I make. I think that what she may be doing is that she knows that she can lose child support or not get as much as she would like and she’s trying to get access and custody to all of them so that she gets full child support. I pay 647 now with shared custody she had claimed 17000 for her taxes when the court order was done 5 years ago and she could of had 1100 a month but settled for 647 now it should be down to 360 something. All of this started around the end of tax season.

So in your province if one parent just decides not to return the kids the other parent is SOL?

Sounds like Special Chambers is where you get to have time to argue your cases.  Is that scheduled?

Has she plotted other stuff like that?  It does make sense, yet it would take somebody that can focus on a goal from then until now.

My wife wouldn't be able to do that kind of thing... .but my sister in law (much worse than my wife) would.  Many times she ended up "winning" things in custody or "proving a point" when you tried to understand the thought process... she decided something was a good idea... and stuck with it, regardless of the amount of evidence that came in.

Here is the thing... .if your ex hadn't caused drama... and you had seen the taxes... .do you think you would have pushed hard for a "refiguring" of things?

FF

She asked why do I want a police clause I said so that i can be proactive no can’t get that then I pointed I didn’t get the kids for four days at the beginning of the month / no response from the judge. I felt like saying is so this court order can’t enforce anything?


Jan 11 2019.

The other night I yelled at the kids and then I said can I get a redo I don’t like how I handled that. S10 says dad I know you’re stressed I wish that D12 and mom would give you a break. I know that both of them planned on getting D12 out of my house. My uBPDw doesn’t get a lot of things right but one thing she is really good at is money this is about money


I was planning on filing to get the child support recalculated,  I went to MEP after court to get a statement of account and noticed I paid her 30000 since 2013 I need to make it a level playing field and pay by what th government child support calculator says.

This is where you should spend some time on the phone with those attorneys and get a good understanding of the underlying law. 

Not saying a lawyer would have overcome this... .but they could have put it in legal language, which... most likely would have gotten a more clear response from the judge.

Is the special chambers in front of the same judge?

Also... ask the lawyer you can talk to on the phone if getting a transcript of this is worthwhile.  Especially if an issue was brought up but not addressed.  They may be able to help you with a written request next time.

FF