BPDFamily.com

I would like to thank everyone who has been helping me, and being patient. You all have been giving me amazing advice and helped me.

Here is part 2: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327004.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327004.0)


I have been kicking myself like crazy since yesterday because I think, that me opening up scared her and ruined things. she texted me saying "fam". You call someone "fam" in today's slang if you see them as a friend or family, also its a way of friend zoning someone.

I know this sounds dumb, but this is how texting and dating is nowadays.

I also, dont think she will be leaving permanently to new york city. she is going with her friend, and they both are exploring but dont have a plan. She told me she bought a one way ticket and staying at a hotel and see how it goes. NYC is expensive, and she has her school, pets, family, friends here.

She could definitely move, and its none of my business what she does in her life.

My hopes here, are if she does return she thinks of all the good that came and possibly restarting the "what could have been".

as for the drug use mentioned before, I have always been open to it, as i experiment too since we both are in college. i dont judge her, but i get worried if it will become a long term habit/problem.

yeah yeah yeah. i used to think if a girl called me dude, or bro, or friend, that it meant the same thing.

youre going to drive yourself crazy if you think in those terms. its simply not the case. know how many times my ex called me "buddy"?

i have a lot of thoughts on "friend zoning" that probably merit a separate thread. suffice to say, to the extent that such a thing even exists, i think people put themselves there. someone doesnt use a slang term and "bang", youre their friend. you dont go out on dates with someone whom you see as a friend.

in the broader context, from what i read in your thread, it did sound like she was backing off and inserting some distance because she understood you wanted more than she was prepared to give. thats just human nature and its respectful to you and to her.


the bottom line is that i think she is more interested in having fun and living her life than a committed romantic relationship.


its one example in a bigger picture of clicking with someone, finding them endearing, or being put off by them. you were obviously put off with her getting high on your date. i would be too. with something like that, i dont know that id decide to never see them again. i would lower my expectations significantly, and that would eventually lead us there.

dates are about getting to know the other person and feeling them out. what we like and dont like.

CW,

You gave it your best shot and things didn't line up for the two of you, so it's a non runner.  In it's simplest form, you wanted different things and that will happen.
 It's a shame, but also a good learning experience.  What do you think you can extract from this and take with you?

How long has it now been since your last r/s?  I noticed that you said how important it was to you for her to like you, and that seemed to be a priority for you.  Could that be the reason for the anxiety do you think?  Where do you think that comes from? 

Love and light x

What I can take from this is that I gave my best. We had so much in common and the time spent with her was phenomenal. I think she is amazing and although she possesses flaws, she was someone I could connect with. We both agreed how we have so much in common, values, Interests, goals. Literally everything that it was a surprise if we disagreed.

Its been 8 months since my last relationship. I dated around and the previous people I dated ended in major complications. I am actually happy those ended and I got to meet this girl. I know I’m sad at the moment and finding any reason for an excuse. But I think she did like me or was catching feelings at least, I Think now I know why she became distant as she knew she was leaving too and didn’t want me to wait.

She didn’t end things with me, but I feel like she did. When I dropped her off she told me “let’s do this again sometime”

I really want to pursue dating her if she comes back but I want it to be her idea. In the meantime school is starting, and I’ll be focusing on that and see what happens.

I really liked this girl as I’ve mentioned a bunch before. I’m not going to wait for her. But I think we could have been something special. Her drug use didn’t bother me as I smoked with her on some of the dates but her being a stoner and saying how much she loves drugs was a bother to me. Or how she was high when I picked her up instead of being sober first and then waiting to smoke. But she is a stoner and we joked about it.

Her liking me was a priority’s because I liked her a lot and she had this persona she set that all these guys are all over her and she is such a catch and I got lost in my own thoughts about how I’m in a competition.

I would like to date her casually and not let me rush her into anything and ive told her this.

How do I proceed? I feel like I’m in a state of limbo right now. She’s leaving Tuesday, I don’t wanna over communicate and chase and push her away. I feel like I have to tell her I’m still Interested  if she’s comes back. I want to apologize I forgot I Came off strong.

So the last thing she said was "let's do this again sometime".  What was the last thing you said to her?

Love and light x

I said, “yea of course”

We had a convo today if she still is  
Going to the DMV tomorrow and if she wanted to go together, she told me she was already going with someone. Our conversations were light. Her response times were much quicker.
I told her I just wanted to see her before she left. I kept my responses light.

Her responding bck to me is a good sign and I know she has a lot of friends whom come first so I’m not offended If she’s busy. Plus she hasn’t even packed and still has to get paperwork done.

I’m probably coming off strong but we both don’t know if she will ever come back. I’m going to step back now since I showed her my interest in seeing her before she left.

It is what it is.

my last message to her was "oh , i was trying to see you before you left"

she opened and saw the message. no response. i guess its safe to say i should move on now.

i wanted to leave things on a better note in person than our date on friday. i messed up.

I remember on our date she brought up a text message Exchange.
She told me in person, “you never responded to my video, you made me feel like I didn’t matter”
And I said “what are you talking about? I did about one of the parts in the video I liked”
And she said “oh I had no idea that was about the video. I was confused so I didn’t reply”

Not sure if this exchange takes into anything.

Wrote this out to possibly send to her next week or so, so I’m not bombarding her.
She leaves tomorrow.

“It was great getting to know you and spending time with you. You’re really funny and charming. Have a great time in New York. You’ll enjoy SOHO and dumbo. If you ever come back, perhaps we get some decent coffee. “

Thoughts?

What is the goal here? 

id like to continue dating her and not rush anything. keep things open and see where it goes.

seperation anxiety is kicking in.

she leaves tomorrow.
we didnt end anything, she still responded to my messages yesterday. she told me she'd like to see me again sometime when i dropped her off on our date. shes a busy girl, and wants to enjoy her freedom. im comfortable with that. 
not sure when she will come back.
she has my number and snapchat, and what i would hope for is for her to contact me when she's back. but so far ive done most of the initiations. i would like for her to message me when she comes back and continue what we had, but im not going to wait. I want to give her the space to miss me. Im not sure if this will happen as we only went on 3 dates.

i am going to back off now. she knows i like her, i have showed her nothing but chivalry, and fun times (her statements). i did tell her on our date, that "if i ever come off too strong let me know. i dont want to push you away or move too fast". she told me "its fine just be yourself and who you are" and i said "i know, but everyone has different love languages and i dont want to cross any of your boundaries"

I guess time will tell. She doesnt seem to chase. or initiate. i know a lot of you ask why I like this girl. If it was healthy for me. Im not going to lie, i became anxious over her statements of other guys, and her whole persona she played of how she is a catch, and how unavailable she is. etc. it threw me off center. it put me in fog.

While she is away my goal is to regain my confidence and recenter. so if she does come back, or i meet someone else I will be in the right frame of mind.

I truly did like this girl, but I did put a whole lot of pressure on the situation by saying things like "this is the first girl I had feelings for in a while". this only made the situation more intense and caused me to be more in my fight or flight mode.

It sounds like this is a very attractive girl you've met.  It must have felt great being out and about on dates with her.  And because of your age and her attractiveness I'm sure you feel a biological imperative to keep things going as long as you can.

At the same time, the feelings you've reported between dates with haven't been so great.  You've felt anxious; frustrated and angry re: your different communication styles; and perhaps a bit perfectionistic re: date planning and texting.  Also, there is the age difference, and differences in your attitudes about drug use.

In your next relationship, how would you like to feel?  Can you picture enjoying being out and about with someone new?  How would you like to feel between dates?


Yeah, I hear that this has felt hard and can relate to feeling anxious around goodbyes.  What else is going on in your life this week?  Anything new on the horizon you're looking forward to?

Hey, CW, I'm going to call a time out. Flag down!  red-flag

Let's take a pause from you narrating the day by day, hour by hour sequence of events and your feelings. Take a look back at the advice and observations others have made on this thread, OK?

Then ... .summarize them. What are you being told? And what is your reaction to that?

I’m being asked if she passes my tests. She is what I like, but she is confusing. She is avoidant but also has stated clearly she doesn’t want a relationship. Which I am fine with.

The things I don’t like is how I feel like I am chasing her. How mostly everything is initiated by me and I feel like I am in some competition whether it’s fantasy or not due to her setting that dynamic.

I’m being told to cut my losses and move on. That she most likely will not message me and I should take it as a lesson learned. I honestly don’t want this. I want to continue dating her but only if it’s mutual. In the current moment, I feel like ___ and empty. I liked this girl, and I’m not sure how she felt. But it seemed like she was somewhat starting to like me. I didn’t try to force anything although I brought up my intentions to her. I didn’t want her to think I was a player or only wanted sex like how she brought up.

Her drug use is not a problem for me, although I said it was. I experiment with drugs too at this moment in life. The only thing I didn’t like was how she was high when I picked her up instead of waiting to smoke together. It kind of irked me. Other than that. She’s a stoner, and she told me she will stop when she’s in grad school. I know this girl isn’t ready to be tied down, and although that’s what I want I don’t mind dating her and taking it slow. I keep repeating myself, and I know it’s a bit sad.

I hate how currently she makes me feel, she says she’s terrible at texting but she’s gone even more distant. Either she’s just busy or she doesn’t care. Idk. She said she’s like this with everyone not just me.

I’m not sure what I did for her to not message me first anymore or act cold?

I’m not ready to cut my losses or give up. But I don’t want to chase or be needy and clingy.

IS THEre something I’m being blind too? I want to salvage this with the girl, if she comes back.

Everyone’s telling me she doesn’t have interest at this point. And I’m not ready to accept it, which I probably should.

Good start, CW.  |iiii

One more thing -- what are people here telling you about your own thoughts, behaviors, or intentions?

I’m not sure. Despite some red flags, I am willing to see where this goes if it’s mutual. I have not reached out to her and will not. She knows how to find me, and if she does great. I left the door open and she knows I wanted to see her before she left, if she ever chose to think I didn’t care. I am also respecting her boundaries by not messaging her on her trip. She has left me on “read” too many times that I don’t appreciate.

She said she wanted to see me again, so hopefully she will message me when she comes back. Unless this is her way of ending what we had.

I am meeting a friend of hers, and someone that’s close to her bestfriend this Wednesday for dinner. I met him at the party that I met her, and he seemed like a cool person to be friends with. I will not bring her up, unless he mentions her. If anything I’ll just tell him, “Remember that girl I met at the party? We went on a few dates. She seems like a cool person” and leave it at that. Because I know it most defintelt will get back to her.

I will not ask any questions or details regarding her.

What do you guys think?

Cry.

have been reading tons, stuff on relationships.
Its a sign of weakness to mention her to her friends.or her family.
Its just what the r/s experts think.  Put yourself in her shoes, you are the one cooling things, you are leaving.  What would you think if she looked weak to you, would you be attracted or not. ? You have to
be counter intuitive, they call it keeping control of your emotions or something... .

Idk.  Take it or leave it.  The one chasing is the weak one, the one out there living life is the desired one... .

I am trying to learn new skills.

If anything, share w this guy neat and exciting things you are up to!

Best, j

An important question.  What did you learn from your failed relationship to apply going forward? That is why we are here. To advance emotional maturity and to apply it in our life.

As for the dating situation... .two things are very important for two people to click - raw attraction and for it to be the right time/emotional condition for connecting.  

This sounds like she likes you, enjoyed spending time, but is not feeling a deep attraction or in the mental mindset to build a relationship. Writing the best text or doing the best posing matters when a relationship is in the making... .but if it's not, it's not.

You see this. You have described it accurately. You get it.

So what is going on (hint, it has nothing to do with this girl)?

It sounds like you're having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.  FWW, this started out as a Learning post because you're dipping your toe in the relationship stream after splitting with your ex.  Today it sounds like a Detaching post because you're struggling with feeling attached to someone you went on three dates with who has moved to a new city.  There's a lot to explore here if you choose.  Are you interested in exploring?


Is this a fair statement?  You've received a range of supportive feedback here from people confirming that she's certainly shown interest to reflecting back to you things she's said about not wanting an exclusive, long term relationship.


This sounds like a plan with a caveat . . . What is the impact on you of leaving this relationship loop open?  If you were to close the loop (come to a decision that she's left and leave it at that) how might that change your behavior going forward?  Are you emotionally available to connect with other women while this loop is open?


Who initiated this meetup?  FWIW, depending on who initiated the meetiup and why, it has the potential to feel like a boundary violation to her. 

very true, I will not gain anything mentioning her. I am trying to implement not chasing either, as I did a lot imo.


Hey Skip  ,

I learned from my r/s that the best thing to do is give space, let feelings come naturally. If someone pulls away you should mirror that. Dont let fear and anxiety control you, and start to pursue more and push them away.

I want to be in the best frame of mind, and be centered. Not rush anything, and allow the new rs to be wanted from sides.


deep down. I guess it has to be wanting to be loved. I want someone to pick me. Not me chase, and do all these things just for someones attention. I dont mind courting, but I want someone to do the same. I want to be someones first option.

It feels sad writing this out. . But, im tired of giving everything and then being left or not good enough. I know this probably stems back to my dad leaving. But, when the dynamics dont change, but your approach does it becomes disheartening after a while.

I think I give up on dating for a while.


it is not a fair statement. I was writing from a mindset of dissapointment and a little anger. I needed something to tell myself to vent and tell myself she never liked me so I could stop holding on to hope.

I know this is not the right thing to do. And I have come to realize that the past few days. Whether, she comes back or not, I need to accept what it was and enjoy it and learn from it.

I also had a bunch of friends in my life tell me she used me or shes playing me. Those played a role as well in me writing negatively. But, I know this wasnt the case. I wanted answers and talk to anyone for any sign of what happened as I was thinking of different reasons.


Im not going to wait for her. The door is open if she ever contacts me again. I dont think she is moving because she told me put vacation leave on her two jobs. She also told me her parents got her a car, so she can start driving again and how she is getting auto insurance again.

So I'm not sure why she had to tell me she is moving. I noticed she does this a lot with a lot of our conversations. She says one thing but then contradicts herself, i.e.
"i dont go on second dates" I get a third date.
"she is trying to stop cursing" curses like a sailor and then says she only said that when she met me.
"i like how you text me during the day and our dates are so fun" but then she says "dont get me wrong i have fun on dates too when guys hit me up at night to meet them for drinks"

its like this with a lot of convos we have whenever she seems to open up or some info about her, or how she feels about me. It has me confused this whole time we have dated.

my BPDex did the same when we first dated. we hold hands, she would say "i hold hands with everyone"
my BPDex also said in the early stages, "my friends all call me a dominatrix"
my BPDex also told me she wants to keep her options open how she is talking to two other guys (both were her ex)

Im not saying this new girl has BPD. Im just saying i feel anxiety dating this girl, and im not sure if its because she also makes it seem like is the "catch" just like my BPD ex did.

But yea, Im not sure why she told me shes moving or possibly moving when she also told me about all these other future plans she has going on here. Either she wants me to stop pursuing and think she moved away, or pursue more by making me anxious which she has done a good job of. I have no idea. its been since sunday and not one message from her. I dont want to always initiate contact.

idk. Im a person who likes to know why and i think of a bunch of scenarios. its not healthy


I initiated the meetup, me and her talked about the party before, and i mentioned how i met this guy at the party and he was there when me and her were talking. she told me 'oh yea i know him" and i told her yea hes really cool.

he asked for my info and we talked about hanging out at the party. Ive been meaning to message him sooner but never got around to it. we made plans for dinner. Should i cancel?  I like networking, and I dont want to bring her up as it will be creepy.

Keep asking myself if I should send a playful Snapchat pic, or wait til she responds  to me.
:/

This is a great summation of what you want in a relationship.  Does she "pass your test" in this regard?

She told me “I’m a different person in a relationship. I am clingy and always want to see you”

She also stated she doesn’t know how she catches feelings for someone.

I never really had any tests, as I’ve avoided this question throughout the post. But I guess my tests are,
-does she communicate? Yes and no.

-am I a priority? No. But it’s understsndable. We aren’t committed and we’ve only been on 3 dates. I need to stop acting entitled. People have lives. But i wish she would at least text me or message me first. So I know she’s remotely interested besides saying yes to dates. Like, at least a follow up text or just a hey. Or something. Anything . It feels like I’m doing all the work and it’s making me assess and overthink. It shouldn’t be this complicated.

I know we said she likes me but the timing isn’t right. She has other focuses now, but she also makes it seem like she’s like this with other guys as well. Since day 1, she’s made this persona of herself that she has guys chase her, date her, she has a lot of guy friends, etc. It feels like she purposely did this, to get my interest higher than before. You know when you have a gut feeling that something doesn’t add up? That’s how it feels. And nothing is either confirmed or not with her. When I see her, she tells me she’s been busy all week with friends, and her plans with friends. So her dating around isn’t confirmed. But i understand if she doesn’t want to say she was just on a date while she’s on a date with me. Nothing is certain with her.

When I asked her plans for Sunday night last week, she told me she had work. But then sends me a snap of her bed. She was in bed sleeping and I processed if she lied about working or not. How are you going to lay in bed when you told me you work that time? Idk.

I am overthinking.

The whole moving thing doesn’t make sense to me.

I am trying not to put too much meaning on texts but if it’s been over a week, and she hasn’t initiated contact in any means. Then I think it’s safe to say it’s time to move on. If you develop some feelings at least for someone you can message them or even a Snapchat.

I also think me chasing her fed into her ego a little bit. I don’t mean to sound narc or egotistical by stating this, but I’m restating things she’s mentioned before that seemed to mean something to her. How I’m 24, she’s 21. How I’m not like guys her age. How I’m about go pharmacy school soon. How I drive a really nice car (her words), how I dress really well. I wonder if these things, + chasing her seem to be feeding her ego. All the dates I did, were amazing and thoughtful. (Her words). So with everything I’ve done, and shown. I can’t get a text back from her ? Or an initiation?

Whenever we talk about deep questions, she becomes hesitant. She has no hobbies or interests really. Just music, and games. She doesn’t know who she is or what she wants.

She told me no one ever bought her flowers before. We go to a sun flower farm, pick flowers and then tell her “how does it feel getting flowers?” She wanted to get some for her mom, but didn’t want to be a burden. I told her it’s okay and we can pick  some for her mom as well.

I think she’s just not that interested. Or there could be someone else.

After writing this, it seems like I am detaching a bit and looking for answers. None of it makes sense.

Making me a playlist with lovey songs and naming it after our date. Telling me you feel hurt when I didn’t respond to a text but then not texting back yourself and saying you don’t text much?

I ended up venting . Sorry  :)

It makes sense. She keeps laying down her cards. You grasp the face cards, you are confused by the other cards.

They are all her cards. She has a lot of stuff going on. She likes you. She doesn't like you enough to derail her plains and other activities.

Dating is like this. Most relations fail in the first 90 days.

It would be interesting to see how many crushes and dates the average person goes on before meeting a serious partner. It's a high number.



This isn't that relationship. You can't earn it from her by being better. And, yes, you are carrying some baggage that makes this hard.

This is what we are all living with.

With her, plant the best seed, and let her go. maybe you will get another shot at it later.

CryWolf, that sounds like a plan which could prove to be a kindness to yourself in the short and long term.  How do you feel about being single?  What does it mean to you?

I ask because we all have our own individual views on this and often there are deep seated reasons for those feelings.  You've mentioned wanting to be loved, wanted and a priority (in so many words).  Those are totally understandable needs.  Do you think they normally cause you to place a high significance on meeting the person to fulfil those needs as opposed to taking some time out of the dating game for a while to regroup?

Love and light x

So I was looking at her Facebook, on a pic she posted. Her mom was talking in the comments to someone about how her daughter was going for a week and saved so much money, etc.

I’m not sure why she would tell me she’s moving?... is she a compulsive liar? The first date I remember she mentioned to me how she was supposed to go to a party with her friends and said out loud “should I lie?”

Is it possible she didn't feel heard by you?

From what you shared with us it sounded like she was clear from the get go that a long term relationship wasn't in the cards.  Is it possible she tried a number of times to bring your fun series of dates to graceful close but couldn't?

Hi cry,

during all the reading that i have been doing on r/s,
one person had the opinion that the healthiest way to start a r/s was to take it like, it will end.
Am not sure i understand it, maybe so we dont start off w any expectations. 

In my program, expectations are future resentments.   If i can get to no expectations, then i will have serenity... .its like the higher my expectations, the lower my serenity and vice versa.


For me to have no expectations, its a long way from where i am.  It is the direction i am heading.
We also talk about progress not perfection, because i am an expert at all the things i miss the mark on, self loathing, etc.  The direction am going on that, is self love.  Its a tall order.

Hang in there
j

I don’t know. She told me I’m lots of fun. I told her I’m not pushing for a relationship. I told her I’m in no rush, and if I’m ever coming off too strong or crossing boundaries to let me know.
I respected her choice of not wanting s relationship and continue dating and having fun.

Only reason I told my intentions was because she asked if I’m a player and if I sleep around. I told her no, and I told her my intentions. She said she had anxiety and I did this to make things clear.

Hi c.

There is a r/s coach on youtube, craig kenneth, and he has a video on anxiety attachment.its under attachment syles.   Or attachment.

You may want to watch it.

Blessings, j

Gonna take this as a way of her not wanting to see me again. No one would lie about moving unless they wanted to get away from someone.

She came back from New York based off her friend and brothers social media posts. But still no response from her. She still follows me on social media but doesn’t like any of my posts.

I sent her a Snapchat last Saturday and she responded. But then didn’t reply after. I asked her how nyc was treating her on Monday as a light text. No response. She is active on social media.

I’m not meeting with the mutual friend for dinner anymore. Not sure if he cancelled because he was actually busy or maybe because of her.

This sucks but time to delete her number.

Sorry to hear that CryWolf, but that does sound like a wise decision.  Can you dust yourself off and reaffirm what it is that you are looking for?  If that is someone to have a stable long term relationship with, then what does that look like to you?  What is important in a r/s in your view?  Being clear on your values and what you want should help you to align yourself more with people who are of the same thinking. 

You've struggled with your anxiety through this.  Do you intend to take some time out for yourself before getting back in the saddle?  What would you want to change if anything as you enter back into the dating arena?

Love and light x

Cry,
Am getting a lot of info from that craig k. you tube

He has some good ones, like what is my attachment style.?
He puts one out every day, has good r/s information, and since he is a male, a lot of his own experience is w women(of course) and he shares about the people he has helped... .men and women.
fyi, take it or leave it.
take care, j

Hey juju, I’ve seen all his videos since back in December. He is amazing. His advice says to back off and move on and if she comes back then proceed forward.

I’m just hurt by how everything turned to be, and this is what I feared the most was being ghosted.

Its ok Cry.

I look at it like people sorting themselves out of my life.

It takes me a while, and i can look glass half empty or glass half full.  It is way better to find silver linings.  And then, nothing is set in stone either!

I dont have to take anything personally.  My life can be an ocean or a pond and everything in between.
Be good to myself, enjoy myself, do things that make me happy; the rest will sort itself out!
I come first.

Best, j

It sounds like you're winding down processing this,  having been open and honest about your feelings and what happened. 

What do you feel you might do differently next time,  if anything?

not go all out on my dates. not look forward to anything.

You sound "resigned to fate" CryWolf.

I know you're disappointed that it didn't work out with this girl.  It didn't even progress into a r/s.

Are you feeling like throwing in the towel?

There are a few billion women on the planet,  surely a few thousand datable where you are.  Subtracting the 25% mentally ill,  that still leaves quite a few.  How do you feel about reaching out, not looking forward to anything,  as you say.  Just take some dates in the moment with no expectations?

youre right. i put a lot of pressure on the situation and let my feelings overtake.
 im just tired of being ghosted to be honest.

 school starts monday. we'll probably have a "met a girl in class" post. HAHA

It sucks being ghosted (rejected)

I'm looking forward to "met a girl in class." 

Onward and upward!

Hey Cry Wolf, I'm glad your classes start soon, lots of new people to meet.   You've had a few similar experiences lately of being ghosted as you say... .I'm wondering what can be learned from this? What would happen if, instead of focusing on one girl in particular, you pick out say three or four who interest you, hang out be friends? Get to know them before focusing in on one and even if one stands out as being special, spend time with others to keep the emotional and time investment at a more moderate level for a few months?

I'm curious to know other things about you... .what are you studying? What are your passions, your career and life goals?

Hey HQ, what I want in a rs is affirmation, and communication. So far, none of that is exhibited from her. It’s felt like mind games. Whether it’s intentional or not, that’s what it feels like. Like tests. It threw me off my center. She portrayed herself as this catch since day 1, and all these guys after her and she’s a prize. As each date progressed she got more and more distant. She “accidentally” sent me a snap of going out somewhere with some one else. Replies became shorter and shorter and the time between became shorter as well.

Of course I’m anxious and could mean anything. I was so scared of being ghosted. And it happened.

Yes, I’m going to take time out from dating. I spent all summer dating multiple girls. I have never received so much attention from girls before. I’m not sure what happened. I went from a guy to barely getting girls interested to having multiple and even at a point talking to 3 different girls. At this point I wasn’t anxious and confident and I should not place all my eggs in one basket. You guys all mentioned this before.

School will start and I will focus on my grades first. I need to focus on myself more. I’ve always put myself second.

Hey space!
What can be learned is to not give my heart so easily. No matter how pretty or gorgeous they are. No matter how much we have so much in common. Read the signs. Be the catch. Let them come to me. Don’t put pressure on it no matter how much you want it to work.

I really hoped this would work. Oh well.

I’m currently in school trying to get a bio degree. Going to pharmacy school after. My hobbies include sports, working on my car for fun, going to festivals, exploring. My life goal is to be travel everywhere. I’m not sure what I’m passionate about anymore.

Do you think it’s possible that what felt like testing from her actually pulled you into the situation more deeply? Along the way, I noticed you putting a lot of effort into pleasing her/impressing her—and also expressing a lot of anxiety about falling behind in the race with these other suitors you seemed to be imagining. I’m wondering if there might have been a “repetition compulsion” aspect to this—something about her and her communication style that made it seem so urgent that you “win” her.

Can you think of other times you felt you had to prove you were worth loving... .of value... .?

If this is off-base, I apologize.

And I am very sorry this hurt so much. It would be a shame if the only lesson you took away was “don’t try.”

Hey you’re not off based at all. I questioned all this through mount dating her. And I made the same distinctions with my BPD ex and what she did when I first met her.

Both these girls are both insecure as hell. Both don’t like pictures.
Both gave off the impression they have so many guys over them and they have options.
My BPD ex lied about having multiple guys after her and her ex and etc.
This girl told me she left both her exes and she never had her heart broken, etc. how she stayed only because they were both lonely.

Of course both girls had value and devalue phase.
Even This girl did it. First few dates, “you’re nothing like these other girls I date” “you’re not needy or insecure at all” “I love how you talk to me during the day”

Text her during the day then she stops replying and breadcrumbs. Didn’t make sense. She said she liked talking during the day. Then only replies late at night once.

On our last date. She says “you’re just like every brown boy” I’m Persian, and I guess she had a thing for brown people? Lol idk. And she said that. It lowkey hurt but I didn’t act bothered. But why say that? Testing?
Then she tells me she’s moving and got me in my feelings. Tells me she wants to see me again when I drop her off.
Then I start sending more messages and trying to see her before she left for good. This lead to me chasing.

One other thing I noticed. She told me she had work Sunday evening. And I asked her if she wanted to get food before work. She sends me a snap in bed during the time she was supposed to be at work.

She told me she’s always out and always busy and always with people. But then I remember one brief moment I think I caught her telling the truth that all she does is stay in bed and watch YouTube videos and lives a boring life.

Nothing makes sense.

This was too familiar with my BPD ex dynamics.

Not sure if she liked the attention or power or what. My ex did.

Hi Cry,

I've tied the two statements above together as I feel they are connected.  When you say that the fact that she didn't offer you what you value in a r/s (what is important to us in a r/s is a r/s value - something to try to remain in line with for ourselves) it threw you off centre, can you describe how that felt?  Like literally felt in your body.  Where did this affect you?  How would you describe the sensation?  It might be like a tight chest or just a sense of unease and discomfort - perhaps feelings along the lines of... .wait for it... .anxiety maybe?

The reason I say this is because we're all equipped with a finely tuned measuring device.  Our intuition.  And that intuition is often speaking clearly to us when we have these feelings in our body.  That sense of something not being right.  It is an early warning system to say 'hold on, your values are not being met here and are out of alignment with this person's'.  It could also be saying - probably further down the line from the 3 date mark but sometimes earlier - your boundaries are being trampled on.

When we ignore these feelings, or push harder to 'make things fit' or 'be right', we are not in tune with our own highly sophisticated internal tech and can begin to feel more and more discomfort, in whatever form it arises.  I noticed that your anxiety level seemed to be on the increase as the interactions built up over time.  Does that sound about right to you?

Maybe a takeaway for you is to pay close attention to what your instincts are telling you and to trust them.  They know what they're on about.  If a potential r/s makes you feel so uncomfortable before it even really starts, that isn't a good sign.  I'd say things have gone as well as they could in that you've come to a natural close on this one.  What I'd be asking myself is what was I pursuing that so clearly didn't match with my own personal goals for a r/s and why?

There is also something to be said for dread.  Law of attraction.  What we focus on becomes.  I'm glad you're going to focus on yourself and put yourself first.  That's a good habit to develop, along with the thought processes around what you DO want.  Keep that front and centre.  You have nothing to lose.  Sometimes the smallest shifts can have large effects.   

Love and light x

Hey CW--I was thinking about maybe an older dynamic. Maybe something with your family? Can you think of any reason you'd be particularly sensitive to rejection?

Do you know the term "repetition compulsion"? From Wikipedia:

Repetition compulsion is a psychological phenomenon in which a person repeats a traumatic event or its circumstances over and over again. This includes reenacting the event or putting oneself in situations where the event is likely to happen again.

There are theories about why we do this... .in general, it may be because we're hoping to change the outcome, gain some control, discharge our volatile emotions.

Enjoy knowing more about you! You sound like a really neat person to know, to hang out with. You have clear goals and discipline to be on this career path. :D Travel is another clear goal. Have you thought about living in another country for a semester or year?

If I can be "buzzkill mama space cadet" for a moment... .   be careful about illegal drugs. In some states you can be busted for being in the same car with someone who has a stash. Doesn't matter that you had no knowledge of it. Could impact your ability to be licensed in your chosen field.

You view this as ghosting, I view it as, you impressed her enough to win 3 dates with someone who you consider very attractive. It's human nature that someone who makes themselves scarce appears more valuable. Doesn't mean they are in fact more valuable.

It's hard to say in retrospect how much she has emotional instability traits (saying contradictory things) and how much is, she's trying to figure out who she is, on her own and in r/s. The remark about her not wanting to be in a r/s because she becomes too clingy strikes me as being a very honest thing to say, makes her vulnerable to you. One reason people leave a r/s whether long term or nascent is that the other person "knows too much." Has nothing to do with you, she may have become comfortable enough to open up but checked herself because she does not want to be vulnerable with anyone right now.

Regardless, it wasn't a good fit which means there is someone (probably many someones) who will be a better fit. What you say about hanging back more is spot on. True at the beginning of a r/s, also true once you're deep into one. We all need a combination of intimacy and space, room to breathe.


Ouch! What the heck does that mean? Why did you cover up the fact that this bothered you? I wonder what would have happened if you busted her on this, even if by staying calm and asking what she meant.

Confidence is always attractive. It's something that we can fake in small moments, but overall it's much deeper than that, comes from accomplishing things and knowing our true value at a deep level. Grows with time and tests. You'll get there I know it. 

Crywolf,
I've been following your processing of this relationship.  It has been a big help to me, since I have some of the same fears and confusion about entering a new relationship.  Thank you for sharing your journey so openly.

I wanted to share my perspective on a few things and see if you might want to try it on for size.

I am technically old enough to be your mother, so maybe I'm not as well versed in the words you kids use these days, but I feel like you may be misinterpreting your latest experience when you say that this girl "ghosted" you.  From my perspective, reading the progression of this relationship since the beginning, I think that you found someone who clearly communicated to you in the beginning that she wasn't looking/ready for a serious relationship.  She showed interest in you and enjoyed the time you spent together.  She may have even been reconsidering her readiness/willingness and signaling that at times.  Ultimately, she decided continuing the interaction with you was not what she wanted.  She informed you that she was no longer available (whether moving to NYC was a lie or not, that was ultimately what she was communicating) and is no longer offering hope of continued interaction.  As an outsider, I'm willing to chalk some of the mixed signals and even the lies up to immaturity on her part.  Being rejected is really hard but doing the rejection isn't exactly a walk in the park for most people either.  In my opinion, she gave you adequate indication (again, it may have been a lie, but I'm putting that aside for the moment) that she was no longer interested in seeing you.  She probably left the door cracked open for hope, either because she was still uncertain of what she wanted or because she doesn't really know how to close that door for someone, and you weren't really ready to hear what she was saying.  That makes for a more difficult closure when she follows through with ending contact, but I wouldn't call that ghosting.  

Why do I think it's important to drop the word "ghosted"?  I think that perceiving yourself as the victim of ghosting may limit your ability to learn from this.  I definitely think that she could have handled this better, but I'm seeing this as someone who has 20 years more experience with life than either of you.  Enough to know that a 20 something woman is most likely going to do things imperfectly and, in doing so, cause more hurt than necessary.  I also know that when a man is not listening to your cues you have to make the decision between fight (look buddy, I'm just not ready for what you are asking of me) or flight (I'm moving to NYC, and so sorry, but we can't hang out anymore) and both of them will most likely result in hurt feelings.  And I also know that a man can SAY he's okay with this not being a serious relationship, but you can see it in his eyes and actions when he is building his world around you, no matter how cool he thinks he's playing it.

I'll touch on one more subject, though I know I'm at risk for sounding like a mom giving a lecture.  I understand that you don't have an issue with recreational drug use.  I get that it can be a part of experiencing the world and an alternative to prescription meds to deal with anxiety and such.  I don't think it HAS to be a red flag or issue if someone is using the recreational drugs responsibly.  Here comes the BUT.  BUT I think you need to always consider someone using recreational drugs (I include alcohol) as somewhat impaired while under the influence.  If you look back on your interactions with this girl, a fair number of them were when she was in an impaired state.  This means that her decision making ability was not fully engaged.  She may have said and done things that she wouldn't otherwise have said and done.  She may have regretted those things when more sober.  Recreational drug doesn't necessarily correlate with poor judgement (my worst decisions were made stone cold sober), but I think it should be seen as part of the context around your narrative.

So those are my thoughts.  I'm glad that you will have school to refocus on, and I do hope you meet that girl in class that makes you believe there's still hope for love.  I also hope that you will continue learning from these relationships.  

Best Wishes,
BeagleGirl

Hi CryWolf,

I just wanted to highlight that steelwork, spacecadet and BeagleGirl have all had some really wise things to say to you and some excellent insights and advice to share.  I hope that you are absorbing all of this and will keep these things in mind as you patch yourself up and move forwards to better things for yourself. 

How are you doing at present?  Did you look into repetition compulsion which steelwork mentioned?  We have some information on the site on this and I posted about the topic here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=312950.msg12889804#msg12889804) with a link to one of the articles (reply #2).  Perhaps some bedtime reading for you out of interest.

Love and light x

Hey all! i took some time away, and reflected. I was looking for answers and was fixated on "why" with this girl. I wondered why she still followed me on social media when she wanted to end things. Shouldnt she just block me on social media too? I dont know.

I am doing a lot better. school starts this week. And have been keeping myself busy with friends and letting go of this girl.

I was very upset about what happened, but Im happy it happended and met someone who was interested. I guess timing was just wrong and she stopped herself from getting serious, because it seemed like it was getting serious.

Steelwork im not sure to be honest. I noticed I meet girls whom have mental issues, and they get interested in me, and vise versa. I dont play a savior or white knight, but its just who I attract. I dont get it.

I know it has to do with my dad leaving at a young age and never returning. and then leaving again when i was older in different circumstances. I also think i never received a lot of physical affection as a child, more so presents and gifts. This is probably why im very affectionate.

As to relationships, me and my t think it has to be cuz of my dad leaving and me finding girls to stay that my dad couldnt. who knows. but its not like i go looking for emotionally unavailable girls. it just comes .

SpaceCadet youre not being a buzzkill! But very true! I was not aware of this until my friend also mentioned what you mentioned about the drugs. I didnt think it was a big deal but yes, this could definitely land me in trouble. Probably not good for a long term rs either. someone can get addicted, etc.

As for her statement, I did call her out but she was quiet. I think it was just the wine and possibly weed making her say dumb things. Who knows at this point.

But yes, she did tell me so many personal things. And she even told me shes told me a lot than she even has told her own friends. Perhaps this is why we were getting close and she wasnt ready. It sucks, but im glad i let her be herself and open up. Maybe thats why she left the door open? idk.

BeagleGirl
your interpretation of the situation was pretty sound. I also think thats what happened, and this is what allowed me to accept the situation and move on. She gave me three dates when she said she doesnt do second dates. she had nothing but fun with me. she opened up to me, told her mom and brother about me. things were getting serious maybe too fast. and she saw my dates and how romantic they were. she liked them too. and perhaps it was she was getting feelings when she told herself she didnt want to. who knows? but it seems like a possibility. a possibility i would hope is true.

i gave her the benefit of the doubt, like my therapist said to do. sadly she was immature on her part, but it happens. she probably couldnt hurt my feelings and this was easier for her. its fine.

Youre right about me being okay with not being in a serious relationship, and my actions deem otherwise.

A lot of times she was high, and this probably why everything was wishy washy or contradicting. probably why sometimes she was close then push back a bit. drugs play a huge part on our psyche. and whether someone is anxious or calm.

i thought our first date was gonna be our last. i smoked with her. but no she wanted to see me again. second date, was amazing. she smoked and i guess i got contact high which wasnt bad and i didnt overthink. third date, both smoked again + wine and same dynamics as first date which lead to anxieties. we both have anxiety, so this isnt good .

so yes i can see how rec drugs played a part in cognitive and overthinking and us both saying things good or bad.

SO I bumped into my friend on campus that I haven’t spoken to in a long time. She told me about her ex and how I met him at the same party I met this girl. She told me how he had sex with this girl named ___. Same name of the girl I dated.  I showed her a pic and she said yes that’s her.

She told me he had sex with her while they were still together so they broke up. And I told her how I dated her for a month and she wanted to take things slow and how she said she doesn’t sleep around, etc. how she’s not a player and the only times she had sex were in serious 1 year relationships.

My friend told me, she heard that she wasn’t looking for anything serious and she got out of a relationship. And she’s been sleeping around with anyone. That She’s been sleeping around with any guy and she said even her friend almost had sex with her.

She told me how she went to New York but came back. I was shocked.

Why did this girl waste my time and get close and serious with me when if she just wanted sex she could have told me. Instead I got mixed messages, time wasted, headaches, and heartbreak.

But she had sex with this dude while I was dating her and treating her with respect and patience and not pushing for anything. I feel like a fool.

My friends ex is a narcissist and she showed me how he manipulated her through messages, 60 missed phone calls, he even lied to me when I met him and told me he was single and she broke up with him and I pitied him. She told me none of that was true and they were working on their relationship. They even went on a trip together but he was telling people he was single.

Why is it that this guy whose a ___ person prevails with the girl I liked, while I feel like a dumbass.

Im really upset and I’m trying to let this go. But I feel so stupid that I put all this time with someone and she ended up sleeping with some ass dude

Hey, CryWolf.  It sounds like your pride is piqued.  I know you put a lot of effort into your dates with this young woman.  Unfortunately, dating isn't like making grades or getting a promotion at work.  (Would that it were that straightforward!)  The amount of work you put in doesn't necessarily correlate with success.  There's very often something extra involved that has to do with chemistry and timing - things you can't control no matter how good/earnest/fit/smart/deserving you are.   

FWIW, when you find someone more simpatico dating should feel a lot easier and more fun for you than it did this go-round.  And a lot less stressful. 

You mentioned in another post you'd received some fun-sounding invitations from another group of friends (which must have felt great!) How is that going? 

Crywolf,
Not to put a sunny spin on something that I know is really painful for you, but I see what happened slightly differently.

You were looking for something she couldn't give you - a real relationship.
Mr. Please Read was looking for something she was willing to offer - sex.

You misread/were mislead about what she could offer.  There really is no shame that.  Maybe this experience will help you read more accurately and be less prone to being mislead. 

The thing is, from all I have read in your posts, I don't think that you would have been happy with what Mr. Please Read got from her.  You wanted more than just sex.  My personal feeling is that she did you a favor by not sleeping with you.  My hope is that she did it because she recognized that you were of a higher quality and would not be satisfied with "meaningless" sex.  I like to think that of her because it gives me hope that she might actually be worthy of some of the regard you gave her and capable of some day being ready for what someone like you has to offer.

So that's the BeagleGirl view of things.  I know it doesn't take away the pain or sense of foolishness that you're feeling right now, but I hope it helps you see yourself a bit more clearly.  I don't see you as a fool.

BG

i really like BeagleGirl's and Insom's read on this.


the only thing id add is that people tend to (or at least try to) put their best foot forward on first dates, present the best, most appealing version of themselves... .maybe say what they think we want to hear. we all do this to varying extents.

i dont want to encourage you not to trust anybody. just dont put a ton of stock in that sort of thing, take it with a grain of salt. sometimes its not the full truth, sometimes their minds change. getting to really know a person takes a long time.

Ive been self reflecting the past few days. I dont think this situation was healthy to begin with. It was fun and a good learning experience. It brought up some insecurities in me, and i disregarded my gut feeling which isnt bad to give her the benefit of the doubt, but the signs were potentially there.

I did nothing wrong but show her a good time, but the situation sucked.

I hung out with my female friend, the same one who told me about this girl and her ex hooking up. and she told me more stories because they all have mutual friends, and also her ex told her as well. That this girl is having sex with a bunch of people, one including someone who has std's but is on medication for to treat it. Im not trying to throw any disrespect, but the stories all make sense. She was confusing me on our dates, and misremembering things I told her, but it made sense because the information she was giving back to me was about my friends exboyfriend who I also know. 

I am lucky I did not get involved. And not get in this headache of things, as well as all the drug use she had. At first I thought it was recreational, but it turned into some hard stuff, heroine, coke, shrooms, acid, even prescription drugs.

Not a good thing for me, since I want to pursue pharmacy.

I guess sometimes, things happen for a blessing. This was not the path meant for me, or fate/destiny played a role into it. Im not sure. I just feel good.

Interesting insight, Crywolf.  Can you say more about why you don't think the situation was healthy?  When did you clue in that something was off?

Honestly, from the beginning.

From the “dates are so fun”, to her not knowing my name on the second date while we’re eating dinner in a place I got reservations for, to the texting games and pretending to be at work and telling me she’s at work but sending me snaps from different locations and nothing adding up to what she was saying. From the extensive drug use and always getting high on our dates. To her valuing then devaluing on dates. But I thought it was her humour.

She would even call herself a hoe but I thought she was joking. There’s a lot I didn’t understand. Im a person that needs to know and why. And I lost a lot of sleep over her. She did say she didn’t want anything serious but she told her mom and brother about me and she did tell me a lot of personal stuff. But that doesn’t matter. She even took my wallet on the third date and gave me her card to pay for everything since I payed the first two.

Nothing added up. But now it did. The time line fit and her lying about never being on her phone was a huge lie because she actually is always on her phone. And this  other guy started talking to her right before our third date. So her interest when to him.

My friend told me that me and her would probably be together because it seemed like she did like me but her ex got in the picture. But I’m grateful it happened. I wouldn’t want to be with someone who lied so damn much about a lot of things.

Another thing, I dont think I mentioned earlier because I didn’t know how. But, when we were leaving the lake at night, I opened the car door for her and saw her sit. And I walked across my car. She looked so much like my exwBPD. I was shook. Like spot on, glasses, everything. All I saw was my ex in that  moment.

All these girls I dated, made me appreciate my relationship with my ex even more. Although the situation with my ex as toxic, it was healthier than the girls I have been meeting. Not saying I want a relationship with my ex again, but that I miss her. And I think I’m done dating for a longtime.

I went out with my friend yesterday, the one who got cheated on. Let’s csll her L1. We went out yesterday as a friend date. and I used to have a crush on her a year ago, when me and my ex we’re on and off. We were also in the same class and this girl was so positive and fun and pretty much the only friend I had at the time. Her boyfriend made her stop talking to me although it was just platonic. He didn’t allow her to have any male friends or do.anything. But constantly cheated on her.
She asked me what’s wrong with her yesterday, and i got mad because there was nothing wrong with her and to me I thought she was amazing. She’s had two rs and both she been cheated on.

The reason I mentioned this was because I also felt like this. I asked myself what’s wrong with me and feel so low and unlovable but it’s because I put myself in situations with girls who I ignore the red flags for and subconsciously think they are the one and I give benefit of the doubt and build this hopeful situation where the red flags are mostly my anxieties. I could be wrong or right though. But that’s the dynamic so far. Not the fixer but the savior in a way. I want to be chosen by someone that’s unavailable so I feel of worth.

Okay long tangent, thank you if you’re still reading and following. Haven’t written like this in a while.