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ExBPDgf managed to get her voice in my ear calling from unblocked numbers. First she left a voicemail, then I picked up because I was on call for work.

She wanted to inform me she's going to her grandmother's across the country for a while. I just kind of "grey rocked" told her have a nice summer and that I had nothing to say. I don't want to be cruel to her, she's just so sick, and I know she really loved me as much as she was capable.

I dreamed about her last night, dreamed we made love for one last time, and in the dream I started weeping. My loneliness level is a 9 lately, not sure what to do about it. It's summer, everyone's away, work is slow, and the kind of attention and conversation I crave I can only get from a couple close friends, who of course have their own lives. There's zero dating prospects in sight.

ExBPD thinks our relationship wasn't that bad. I know it was. We fought physically, I was slapped on the side of the head, thrown to the ground, pinned. I've grabbed her by the hair, pushed her. I've had to call the cops on her when she stole my keys. I've had to call an ambulance for her during a psychotic episode. I've had to call first responders to try to find her after a Cat 4 hurricane. If I ever went back to her, I'd have to leave my people because my friends and family would lose all respect for me. I'm ashamed that I often entertain the idea of buying a hippie bus and just her and me travel the country, screw everyone and everything else.  
 
I hate knowing she still loves me and wants to be with me. I wish she didn't. I feel torn in part, one half craving and desiring her, one half just wants her to disappear entirely. This was a 2 1/2 year on and off relationship, I haven't seen her in 3 months. I'm depressed as heck. Once a week therapy, about to try taking sailing lessons, working on home improvement projects, dying inside. Moving through life, but not alive. I know it gets better, but f**k

Oh yeah, and she put a hole in my wall, damaged my floors, broke my wine glasses in a rage.

My confidence is plummeting. Is this the best I can attract for a mate? Why is it that the only people who want me seem to be emotionally stunted addicts? Is that what I am?

I'm going kayaking now. I hope it helps me feel better.


 

No, LI.  That is not what you are.  I think you know that and that is what stops you from buying the bus.  Although I can totally understand the thought as I had it many a time myself.  In reality you and I both know what comes with that is not the happy ending we'd hope for, but instead more of what we encountered.  For the tragedy is, that in this case their love is not enough when it brings such darkness with it.  You deserve better than to be treated that way and to live like that.   

Remember, the only way out of this pain and loneliness is through.  We're here with you as you go through this.  You are worth it.  I know it's hard, and you have what it takes and are doing all the right things.  Stay with it, spend time with those who show you what you are worth and enjoy your kayaking.  It really does get better.  Hang in there.   

Glad you decided to post.  It's a good move.   

Love and light x

LI,

I feel your words.  I'm new here and this is so familiar, esp the bone crushing lonliness.  And weirdly, the hippy bus.  It doesn't help. That's the way HB and I traveled together, each of us in an RV. When it's good, it's over the moon.  When it goes sideways in a BPD way, it's the worst ever.

I keep being told, ":)on't you see, you deserve better!" Why doesn't that help? It just makes me want to defend him, and myself for staying in it. But I know it's going to cycle around again.  And again. If I go back.  I've also been doubting my ability to attract a healthy partner.

I can't offer any advice, just a whole bunch of compassion.  And gratitude for mentioning the kayak.  Mine has been strapped to the top of my minivan (hippy bus) but I haven't been able to get myself to go out.  Perhaps today, thank you.

Going through the motions fills the well, even when you're not feeling it.
Reminding myself, here.

Keep writing, please.

Kathleen321

Thanks Harley and Kathleen,

I keep wondering if there's something about me that invites neglect. I so often feel overlooked and unappreciated by the world. My parents raised me with a benign neglect, so it's what I'm used to. Then, in my early 20's, I fell in love with a succession of women who did not love me back "in that way," though they'd sure have sex with me. So after that, I focused on dating men. My ex husband loved me, but he loved his work and his cocaine more and I was neglected in that relationship, too. When I tried women again, I had a brief, painful affair and obsession with a woman with NPD, then later my BPDgf.

I really thought I was breaking the pattern with exBPDgf. The sun rose and set around me in her world, at least when she wasn't psychotic. Unfortunately, she also wanted to suck the life out of me and make sure I had no energy left for my own pursuits.

I argue with myself that on the hippy bus, and with no societal pressure around us (friends, work, family) she'd get all my attention and devotion, plus we'd live so simply I wouldn't have to resent that the only money she brings in comes from disability pay, and we could live happily ever after. I know, I know... .

Last night after kayaking I checked my Okcupid account and chatted up a couple cuties, so that helped me feel more hopeful. Going to hang with my bestie downtown this afternoon. Ironically, it's hard to go be social when you're feeling this lonely. My confidence is low. I feel unloved, unnoticeable, and as if I can't trust my own judgement when it comes to others. Sigh.

Thank you both for your compassion and commiseration. 

Hi LadyI. I'm sorry you're feeling so low, and so lonely. We've all been there (or are there still, some days). And it sucks. I know it feels unbearable sometimes. But you will get through it and it will get better. It's just being in the now that is freaking hard, I get it. I struggle also with wondering if I can trust my own judgment in the next relationship. I'm seeing a counselor to work on my issues and become more mentally healthy all around, so that in the future I hopefully won't make the same mistakes again.

Did kayaking help you some? I just got a kayak myself a couple weeks ago and managed to take it out briefly last week. It was great. I went with friends, but would love to kayak alone and just be in the stillness on the water.

Are you seeing a counselor? I know being in relationships like these takes a huge toll on our self esteem, and it sounds like that's the case with you. Maybe seeing someone and talking it out could help to put things in perspective and help you to see that you do have worth, you do have value, and you deserve to be with someone who doesn't put you on the back burner or only wants you for sex. You absolutely deserve Much more than that. It's great that you got to spend time with your bestie, too. I have a few good friends who have supported and encouraged me so much, and talked sense into me when I was tempted to go back to my ex. This site is wonderful for encouragement as well. Keep posting, keep sharing, and hang in there!

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. It's tough and it's a hard place to be. You are most definitely not alone. I'm glad you're writing here. I hope it helps. I also think that now may be a really good time to take some time and to care for yourself. Kayaking sounds like a wonderful idea! Did it help any?

Thanks, WindofChange and IAMTHEFIRE,

Kayaking is my job (ecotour guide) and I love it. The waters here are clear and looking for wildlife to show my guests takes me out of myself entirely, I get mad "flow."

Yes, I'm seeing a therapist. So far she's not much help. I posted a thread here before about how I just don't understand the point of therapy if you're already self-aware. I know exactly why I'm the way I am (FOO and early romantic experiences) and am frustrated by a lack of solutions to feeling better. She offers trite advice like "get yourself out there," and "get enough sleep" (I do both those things fine.) She thinks I should quit drinking and doing drugs so she can "diagnose" me with something. At least this T is affordable, but honestly, I don't see myself doing therapy much longer I see it as a waste of time and money. 

I have a couple okcupid dates this week, both with men. The lesbian dating pool here is just too small for me to limit myself to one gender, though ideally my future is female. I'm not expecting to fall in love anytime soon, but it's nice to have some one-on-one time with someone, maybe make some new connections. I went on a date last night, we had fun, but he's 16 years younger than me (yikes) and wants kids someday so that counts me out for the long-term. But it was nice just to have someone's undivided attention and some wine and nachos.

Oh, also got hit with a whammy the other night. My ex husband is thinking of proposing to his girlfriend. We separated 4 years ago, and it's not like I want him back, but I still think of him as my person we were together 16 years. And frankly, I don't like the woman. But as long as he's happy. Still, it stings a little.   

Hi Lady Itone,

I can identify with your struggles.  I was married for 38 years, I am in my 50’s.  My friends who have divorced have gotten out and found new significant others.  I’m happy for them and the relationships work for them, but I can’t help but feel they just settled because they don’t want to be alone.  That’s not for me. 

I’m enjoying living by myself because I can set my own schedule and spend my time largely how I decide. 

One thing I have found is to keep my eyes open (being mindful) to having all types of relationships.  I’m being more open, And have made acquaintances with a lot of different people. These relationships have nothing to do with romance or sex, but just connecting with other people. 

Being an eco tour guide sounds awesome.  I have kayaked.  Recently I paddled boarded and really loved it.  Definitely going to do that again.  Love gliding through the water, the peacefulness of being on the water with actively using your body. 

You mentioned wondering if there is something about you that invites neglect.  Perhaps that’s a topic you can bring up with the therapist?

Peace and blessings,

Mustbe

That's awesome! :)

Maybe she's not the right therapist for you. I saw several therapists in the last twenty or so years for depression. Not one of them recognized my past trauma and just treated me for depression. We never really got to the source of my depression. It wasn't until about three years ago that a marriage counselor finally recognized that I was dissociating during arguments with my now ex and recommended I seek out a trauma therapist. My trauma therapist is the therapist I needed all of these years.

We essentially tried our version of the 'hippie bus'.  My ex was to have worked at my side as interpreter, assistant and ultimately as my agent.  In other words us against the world.  We attempted this experiment and in a matter of one month and cracks were already forming.  Even without external pressure she was beginning to plant seeds of deviant behavior.  Bizarre bids for control.

However, I understand your fantasy all too well.  You wrote to me months ago "When she weeps, it shakes the walls. When she smiles, the whole world lights up. I am fascinated by her, the feral way she moves through the world."  These words struck a chord with me and I went back to look at your post.  Even with nearly 8 months of no contact I still feel the vacuum of her absence.  There is something magical about a being who lives with one foot in reality and the other in a fantasy world.  I feel like I experienced love verging on psychosis -wonderful, but unsustainable. 

Therapy has helped me on my road to understanding.  However, as I_Am_The_Fire intimated not all therapists are created equal.  Perhaps you should shop for a different one?  It is a very personal relationship and certainly not one size fits all.  Mine has been great about giving me books to read between sessions -this has kept me busy and on track.

My therapist treats several patients suffering from BPD.  His intimate understanding of the disorder has helped me put my affair into perspective.  One of the most painful things he told me is my relationship might have worked -he is not in the 'Run' schools of thought on BPD. 

He said when a relationship with someone suffering from BPD works it is magical -but the odds of success are quite low.  Further, without treatment a relationship with someone suffering from BPD is nearly impossible.  In the short term it would have been easier for me to have heard 'run'... .  But healing should not be easy.  It takes time and a lot of work.

Unfortunately, I understand the idea of cognitive dissonance.  I believe, in me, this comes largely from the disparity between what my ex said and what she did.  Her actions and her words were incongruous.  How can someone who professes such love act out so terribly?  How can someone who 'needs' love do everything in their power to destroy it?  BPD is truly a diabolical disorder offering so much pain and confusion.

I am glad to hear you are staying active.  This has helped me as well.  Even when I don't feel like it I have been fairly good about forcing myself to keep doing the things I know are good for me.  Your confidence will come back and when you are ready you will find love again.  Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  I always look forward to seeing your posts.

Wicker Man

You guys are the best.

Mustbe, that's a good idea, I'll tell my therapist "I keep wondering if there's something about me that invites neglect." I chose that therapist because she was the only affordable one I could find nearby, also because she saw my exBPDgf a few sessions so had firsthand experience of her. It has occurred to me that I might get more out of therapy if I can think of direct questions instead of just using it as a bitching session.

WickerMan, thank you for reminding me of my own words. It helps to remember there really WAS something real there, it wasn't just a sick person being drawn to another sick person. I shouldn't feel ashamed that I fell in love with a disordered woman.   

It was actually out of the compassion I feel toward people suffering from BPD which compelled me to begin posting here on BPD Family.  I cannot imagine the pain she feels.  She is not a statistic, she is not a disorder -she is a living breathing being and worthy of happiness.  She is unique as am I.  Our relationship carried many of the hallmarks of a 'typical' BPD train wreck... .I mean relationship -but it was our train wreck and I believe we both experienced deep love.  Undoubtedly our experiences were different, but in that moment real to both of us.

Falling in love with someone suffering from a personality disorder does not necessarily imply 'sickness' on your part.  From what I read you loved this woman, tried and tried hard to help her and in that should you should feel proud of yourself.  If you are like me you didn't love her because of their disorder --but inspite of it.  I am a self proclaimed nice guy / people pleaser.

However... .  This nice guy has a sense of self and a limit to how far I can be pushed and how much I am willing to give.  From what I have read you also have a limit and reached it with your ex.  Does this mean we don't miss them?  Of course not! 

If losing her didn't hurt then I would be worried -it hurts to admit failure in love.  In removing myself from her life I have returned her to the hellish and dangerous world she creates for herself.  I have extreme pity for her -but also an acute sense of self preservation.  In my mind I know she would have likely been my undoing -my heart is taking a bit longer to convince... .

If you had allowed your relationship to lead you to ruination then you would have had something to be ashamed of.  Instead you did what was right for you -you chose the hard road and the high road.  From what I have read in your posts you are insightful and strong.

I have been slowly coming to believe part of the seduction I experienced with my BPD ex was heightened by the 'variable reward schedule' which was knowing her.  Every day was like pulling on a slot machine handle -sometimes I won and sometimes I lost.  So... .I kept pulling the handle and hoping for a win.  Over our time together we made some progress, but ultimately if her BPD was left untreated I believe she one day would have left me.  Due to extenuating circumstances the risk was untenably great and no matter how much love I had for her I could not continue our life together.  This is intellectually sound -but it still hurts and I still miss her.

As to therapy... .I come to each and every session with an agenda.  Today we will speak about sublimation (transference of sexual energy into something else -in my case work) and the Lacanian notion of ':)as Ding' (The thing of sublimation -which I now believe was my ex -she seems to have been an extension of my work) and the idea of how to replace the loss of ':)as Ding'.  I have told my therapist he can alter my meetings agenda as he sees fit -but I come every session with my 'homework' in hand.

I figure I am paying for the sessions and want to get as much out of it as I can.  The result --I end every session with my shirt damp from mental exertion.   I am slowly learning to live without her, I think of her less, and slowly the color is coming back into my life. 

It just takes time and a bit of hard work.


Wicker Man

After yesterday's therapy session, I've decided I'm breaking up with my therapist. I feel like she's bringing too much of herself to our sessions, and I have to keep pulling the focus back to me. She doesn't seem to have any real-life experience with any of the things I struggle with, for example, being bisexual and polyamorous in a world not set up for that, believing in animal-rights in a world where anything non human is treated as a "resource." I spend to much time explaining concepts she has little knowledge of, she's just a rather conventional straight white woman we have nothing in common, . I think my time/money right now would be better spent with a chiropractor--I am tense as heck with no sex, and have a crimp in my neck I just can't shake lately.

Today I'm adopting a guinea pig from the shelter. Very exited to have a new furbaby. Tomorrow I'm going to do something brave for this shy introvert and join a women's social sailing club for my first lesson. Still, I miss exBPDgf so much. I've been composing an email to her in my head, nothing too deep, just  to tell her what I've been up to this summer and to ask what she's doing. I know it would make her so happy to hear from me. But I'm scared it would open the gates to her trying to get back in, so I hold off on that for now. It's a shame I fear being kind to her.

I am sorry you do not feel your therapist is going to work out for you.  However, it is such a personal relationship I can see where a therapist who can't understand your world view would be frustrating. 

You had said you didn't have a lot of choices for therapists in your area.  Perhaps you can ask people here for suggested reading.  There are a lot of great books out there and reading might be a more viable alternative. 

If she were good at her job her race and sexual orientation would be irrelevant -but it sounds like her approach isn't working for you.  I had seen 3 different therapists until I found the one who worked for me.  The first one had been in the same job for 30 years and had no life experience outside his very limited practice -he mostly saw county workers. 

The second one was quite an extraordinary man -veteran, pilot, special forces, PhD.  I found he was more of a life coach than a therapist.  I admired and respected him, but his hand was a bit too firm.  He was incredibly generous with his time; our sessions would sometimes run over by an hour when he had an open schedule.

The one I stuck with seems to be what I need.  Kind of sounds like Goldie Locks... ."Ahhh, this chair is just right," she sighed."

It definitely took some shopping around.  The first guy I was polite and watched the clock for 50 minutes -our worlds touched at no point.  The doctor it took me a few months to realize I needed something different.  I have been with the third one since January.

As a digression --Who in the hell doesn't see the value in pets?  My dog has saved my life over and over.  I don't mean literally, but come on!  When I am feeling down taking her for a walk is the perfect panacea.

If you are going to send her a note make sure you are doing it just for you.  Figure out what your needs are and how beginning a discourse with her would effect your life. 

Leaving 'ream Come True' (literal translation of her name) was the single most difficult thing I have ever done.  I worry for her. I miss her. I wish her the best. 

There is a lot I would like to be able to tell her --but I know, in my heart if I were to have any contact with her it would start her healing clock over again  As I have mentioned we have not had any contact for 8 months. She has apparently still not accepted the dissolution of our engagement. 

I do not want to do anything to cause her more pain.  I think, for her, any message from me would be taken as an invitation for us begin again.  My watch is done and there is nothing I can do to help her take her next steps in life.  --This is easily said, but it is difficult for me.

Further... .Selfishly I do not want to subject myself to knowing her next life choices.  They will likely be foolish, short sighted, self destructive and possibly even dangerous.  I can't watch the slow motion train wreck she is likely to create for herself.  If she starts drinking again... .It took me 6 months to convince her to stop.  As I said I don't want to know. 

Be kind to yourself Lady iTone.  Keep a weather eye on your needs and what will be best for your mental and emotional wellbeing --your future happiness.  This may or may not include reaching out to your ex.  Only you can know for certain.



Wicker Man

This is exactly what stops me. Am I causing her more pain by keeping a distance, or more pain by feeding her illusions that all's well between us and we're meant to be together?  Got to think on that some more.

I think reading is the way to go, I'm a fast, avid reader and books will let me access greater minds than my current therapist. I've been devouring a very helpful book, Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression and the Unexpected Solutions by Johann Hari.

Thanks again, WickerMan you've helped immensely.

While you are thinking this over this please consider, first and foremost, what your needs might be.  You seem to be looking at communication with her from her perspective not yours. 

I suppose what I am try to say is this.  Cui Bono?  (Who benefits). 

Would communicating with your ex help with your depression or was the maelstrom of your relationship what has lead to your current depressive state?  (I am presuming you feel depressed because of the book you are reading by the way... .)

In my case my tryst with BPD has caused me, for the first time in my life, to contend with a low grade depression.  With time the clouds are parting, but it is taking a lot of work.  I have learned I don't like depression very much... .

I know if I were to contact her it would be incredibly difficult (... .'incredibly difficult' is code for impossible... .) to not be drawn back in.  She is a magical person -but with her magic comes discord.  When things were good we could spend hours on the phone laughing -when things weren't good... .well... .you can guess. 

There is no wrong answer in whether you should reach out to her or not -just please care for yourself.  Further don't feel urgency, take your time and think this through.  Decide not to decide for a little while.  If you were to open communication having to then later cease communicating would be painful for both of you (again).

Do you keep a journal?  I have found forcing myself to articulate my thoughts into writing is in itself cathartic.  It seems to be far to easy to miss the good parts of our relationship and forget the bad.  Perhaps it is because the bad things are so outlandish they become nearly unreal?  E.g. tearing all the flooring and tiles out of an apartment... .  ugh.  Please keep in mind I hold no animosity toward her -just sincere pity.  I simply came to realize I could love the pain out of her --I tried.  7 months out I have to keep reminding myself of this notion.

I read '12 Rules For Life: An Antidote to Chaos' - Dr Jordan B Peterson  Perhaps have a look at some reviews and see if you think it is something you might like to read.  He also has a lot of videos on Youtube -he is quite an interesting speaker.


Wicker Man

Just to highlight (following on from Wickerman's recommendation) that we have a couple of videos here from Jordan Peterson.  Here's a link to one of them on How to help someone with BPD (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=320732) to give you a feel.  He's very well respected in everything I've seen reviewed.

Also to mention that many have written to their ex partner here in our dedicated thread or in their own threads.  It might be an idea to do that initially if it's helpful and then return to it in time.  When a breakup is final there is no rush.  Our feelings change considerably as we work through the stages of the detaching and healing process.  You will feel differently in 3 months, a year, and so on.  Take your time.  It's on your side.   

Love and light x