BPDFamily.com

_{Part 1 of this thread is located here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327258.0;all}

Hi all, the situation settled down eventually, but I am anything but settled. This last act of terrorism from her I think has finally broken my heart beyond repair. The fact that after all I've done for her, she had to try and take from me the one thing I had for myself, and not only that, to publicly humiliate me in front of my classmates and teacher. I'm pretending I'm OK with her to get by and do what I need. But right now I can't find that "she's sick, she can't help it" sympathy in my heart, even though she pseudo apologized this weekend. This time she just took it too far. I'm afraid to go home and have to take anxiety medication just to make it through the evening.

Now back to strategy. Tomorrow I will tell my class some of what's going on. It will be humiliating, especially since I'm the only foreigner in the class, but it's less humiliating then letting them think I'm some deadbeat dad who's running away from a divorce and avoiding my wife and family as she more or less wrote on the school Facebook page. I am looking for a babysitter to go with me to the class and play with the kids quietly in the office. This babysitter would be my own and have no contact with my wife. I would tell them my wife sometimes has to suddenly work overtime or on weekends. This is better than leaving them at some strangers house or at my house alone. If I build some trust with the babysitter, then I might let them onto the situation. During the silent treatment period last week she started sending my son to day camp without consulting me about it first.  SoI feel no compunctions about putting them with a babysitter without her knowledge.

Called the social worker and waiting to hear back. Also forwarded my dysregulation records to our family counselor who we are scheduled to see about our son's behavior in a week. I thought it was important to show her the real family context if she's to help our son (Baby BPD I've begun to think of him) in any practical way.

~ROE

Hi ROE,
You’ve got some good strategies in place.

She’s pushed you so far, it sounds like you feel devastated that she would try and break the one thing you cared about.

You might think it embarrassing to disclose your wife’s mental illness to your class, but I imagine that people in every culture know about and have experience dealing with mentally ill people, maybe even in their own families.

The babysitter idea is great! |iiii And so is forwarding records of your wife’s dysregulations; that will give the counselor a far better picture of your family dynamics.

So, with strategies in place, what can you do to take care of ROE? A nice meal at a restaurant, a beer, a chat with a friendly person. Let’s all raise a virtual glass to ROE. You’re an incredibly strong and kind man!  

Cat

Thank you, Cat. As luck turns out I found a babysitter! I ended up telling my wife and sold it as my class becomes her night off rather than burden. She's OK with it (how could she not be?) but hope she feels at least a little guilty that I have to go outside for help when I help her with these kinds of things all the time. But I am happy because this is MY babysitter and it feels like the first step in taking my life out of her control because of the kids.

I have also just been asked by my company to make an urgent business trip to UK. This is my dream come true, but I'm really afraid to tell my wife. I am trying to arrange babysitter / sister support for her during this time but she will not be happy no matter what. I have to tell her today... .

~ROE

Good luck stud

The business trip sounds exciting!  I understand there's stress associated with planning for it, but you've been thinking about it and I'm sure you'll handle that.  Don't forget to let yourself be excited about going and enjoy the trip.  I'm sure it will be nice to spend some time back in an English speaking part of the world!

How did the talk with your wife go?

WW

Hi all, my wife dysregulated and the talk didn't happen.

Also, I've decided to quit the accapella class. The stress of taking the kids and getting them home even with the babysitter there was night was too much to bear. And it was too hard and tiring for them to be out at night. I could barely focus in class and my voice is weak from stress. Better to try this again at a better time.

And I plan to tell my director about the situation this morning and say I can't do the trip. It's too high risk after what happened with the school. She could steal my luggage the night before, or do something to the kids while I am away and I couldn't get to them. The risk is too high. Better my career take a hit than my kids.

I'll mention I was near suicidal this morning until my best friend from the US texted me. His timing was perfect. He's a mental health professional and we hashed a lot of things out.

~ROE

I'm so, so sorry ROE - I've been following your saga online and I so feel for you right now  . You are in the thick of things.  Please, please take care of yourself - if not for your own sake, for your kid's sake.  They are truly down one emotionally healthy parent so they NEED you to continue to hang in there somehow and stay strong.  It's hard though - so, so hard and you have my full sympathy.

You have lost this battle but not the war.  Time to take a deep breath and regroup.
Warmly,
B

Thank you Baglady! Your kinds words mean a lot.

Update - I just told my supervisors about the situation and why its too risk to go abroad and they were very understanding. My supervisor even said she had a former staff whose wife changed after being home with the baby and tried to cut him with a knife, so it sounds like it may have been BPD there. They will find someone else to pick up the trip. I am deeply disappointed to lose the chance (my dream was to visit the UK) but more relieved that I don't have to worry about what would happen if I tried to go.

Right now I believe I have to switch focus from getting her help to getting me and the children into a safer situation. The fact that they will both go to school soon helps. One strategy might be to encourage my wife to move into her own apartment near her new work so she can give it full focus, which is very common in this country (one parent moving close to job). I am also meeting some babysitters who could possibly give me some support. Maybe someone from my family could fly out here to help until things get more settled.

~ROE

Roland,

I'm sorry to hear that you've had to drop the a cappella class and the business trip.  Only you know the best way to circle the wagons and put the focus where it needs to be right now.  Put that class on your "futures" list!

As for the business trip, I like that you've paired that decision with a decision to put urgency on getting you and the children into a safe situation.  Your supervisor may have been understanding this time, but that understanding may wear thin eventually and you must be safe to work.  Having your wife get a separate apartment sounds like it might be a way to work within the culture and get some breathing room for everyone.  Whatever solution you find, it's important that in addition to providing good care and a good environment for the children, it allows you to work effectively.  You are the main provider for your family, so as you know, your work is for the children, too.

WW

ROE,
So sorry about the crisis point you're dealing with currently. And I'm sorry for the disappointments it brings to you.   

A safer situation certainly would alleviate all the danger and anxiety you're currently dealing with. I hope you can get your wife an apartment soon. You definitely need some support from friendly helpers.

Cat

Thank you, WW and Cat.

I think the apartment idea might be viable and that things might be lining up in this direction. I have found new resources online to help locate babysitters who could help with temporary things like getting the kids to school or maybe a little cleaning and cooking. I will pitch it as she will be super busy / consumed by new job, she could focus on that and maybe see the kids and me after work a day or two a week and / or on the weekends. Of course she will know its also because I want to be away from her, so if she asks on this part I will be honest that I think some space might be better for our family.

I used to bristle at the idea of breaking up our family, but I feel deep down my son is telling me he would feel happier and safer away from mama. Sad as this makes me, it might be true. This is a lower friction approach to getting some space than a custody battle I would probably lose.  

~ROE  

It seems really smart, you'd be proceeding directly to a more healthy solution for your family with out the delay, expense, uncertainty, and trauma of involving outsiders.  It is always better to figure out things out of court, and to have moderate solutions.  I'm not sure about where you live but in many localities the status quo matters a lot when settling custody issues, not to mention the fact that if your wife actually feels good about the new status quo (is that an oxymoron?  ) you may be less likely to have a battle even if you do proceed to divorce.

WW

Thanks, WW. It might take a campaign of conversations to make it happy. I think she still feels safest being with me and is used to me eventually defaulting to forgiveness and letting go and then back to normal life. But that normal life is becoming less and less sustainable.

ROE

Hi Roland,

I just read your namesake's song (Dorothy Sayers' translation is online at  https://www.fadedpage.com/books/20130224/html.php )

This guy is awesome. Sounds like you have decided to channel your inner Roland and ride out to the metaphorical battle to improve your life. Godspeed to you.

Through Gate of Spain Roland goes riding past
On Veillantif, his swiftly-running barb;
Well it becomes him to go equipped in arms,
Bravely he goes, and tosses up his lance,
High in the sky he lifts the lancehead far,
A milk-white pennon is fixed above the shaft
Whose falling fringes whip his hands on the haft.
Nobly he bears him, with open face he laughs;
And his companion behind him follows hard;
The Frenchmen all acclaim him their strong guard.
On Saracens he throws a haughty glance
But meek and mild looks on the men of France,
To whom he speaks out of a courteous heart:
“Now, my lord barons, at walking pace—advance!
Looking for trouble these Paynims ride at large—
A fine rich booty we’ll have ere this day’s past;
Never French king beheld the like by half.”
E’en as he speaks, their battles join and charge.

>>BL notes: I see why it goes so wrong for original Roland after that good start is that he is too proud and independent to call in the reinforcements until it's too late and they can't get there in time to help out. Looks like modern Roland is doing a rewrite where you sound the horn as soon as you join battle and call in all the help you can. So your song is going to end better than his. This now is the part in the middle with the dramatic tension, but I think yours ends with banners flying.

BetterLanes x

Dear ROE

I am so sorry! I usually hang out on 'bettering' and only just saw your post this morning.

It's unbelievable how quickly things have gone south and how badly she has behaved. I can't imagine how you felt when she turned up at your Acapella class with the children 

It sounds like she will stop at nothing to control you and get her own way.

And to miss your chance at going to the UK! To finally have a break and visit a country you've been excited about visiting... .not to mention, the chance to move up in your career. My heart really goes out to you.

As always, you are handling this in a compassionate way and thinking things through. But at what cost to you? You cannot continue to appease her and let a mentally ill person control your life. And the lives of your children. I worry so much when you say you are noticing BPD in your son too.

I hope you are keeping records on your office computer. Making notes of what happened, date and time, and keeping any physical evidence such as screen shots of the facebook page and any ugly texts, as well as call logs. Make sure you back up to an external hard drive or flashdisk too, so you have an extra portable copy.

I like the separate apartment idea and hope you can instigate this as soon as possible. Although I can imagine the extra stress of juggling your job, babysitters, looking after the children and home; at the same time I think it will give you space to really breath at last.

Sending you love and strength
SaM

RolandOfEld
You are definitely having a rough time!  I can relate to much of what you are going through.  My uBPDw was hired for her 'dream job' earlier this year but she soon quit blaming the place she was working at for not doing things as they should and blaming me for being 'too supportive'.  I was being selfish by being supportive according to her when in reality, I wanted to do whatever I could to help her feel successful and happy.  I thought that she more than deserved getting that job after she had spent many years at home taking care of the kids and putting her career on hold.
Anniversaries are another similarity.  This year, I did not even mention it.  In years past, when I have attempted to do something for our anniversary, she has pushed back, asking why I would want to celebrate years of hurt and misery.  This year, I just gave up. 
We have spent the majority of the last year sleeping in different rooms as well.  The first time that I chose to sleep in the spare room, she told me that she didn't like me doing that, she wanted to feel me close to her even when things were not right.  After that I chose to stay in the same room as her and expressed to her that I appreciated her communicating how she felt and that I would stay in the same room with her.  When the next episode began, I expressed to her that I was going to stay in the same room with her because I loved her despite what we were experiencing.  She replied that she could care less where I sleep.  At that point, I decided that trying to meet that need was pretty much pointless and have spent most of my nights in the spare room. 
There have been a few occasions where I have come close to calling the authorities but have not done so as that could have a huge impact due to the career field she is in.  I doubt that getting the authorities involved at this point would be beneficial, especially considering that it is quite likely that she would make something up and I would end up being the one facing charges. 
None of this is easy at all.  I really can understand the pain and confusion you are going through.  I do hope that things will get better for you.  On the bright side, at least she is talking to a therapist and making an attempt. 

Woodchuck

Roland  Sadly, this sounds so familiar to me. Luckily, you knew what to do to end the current situation. Not feeding into it makes us feel like NOTHING but in the end its so much better to just take it and go with it. It sucks to have to live this way, but to avoid conflict we have to. My fiancé has BPD, and I deal with this so often. I can also tell when an episode is coming, by the tone in her voice and the look in her eyes. I feel one coming soon  In the meantime, I enjoy the person I fell in love with, and hold onto every memory. I hope the best for you, bpdfamily really is amazing.

Hey ROE,
How are things going today? Any developments on getting an apartment for her?
If not, what about an apartment for you and the kids? How about babysitters?

Wish you a smoother path ahead.

Cat

Hi all, I'm sorry for the late reply. I've been following but too consumed with family business and new job to make a decent reply. Finally got some time today.

After the incident with the bed hitting and dropping kids at my class, I realized the environment has become too toxic for me and the kids. At the same time, my wife is talking about how stressful and difficult her new job will be so I will have to take over most of the responsibility for the kids. I realized that this is my opportunity. The more I take care of them myself, the more control of the situation I have. Part of the reason she has so much control over me is because she can derail my life so easily, especially by using the kids. When she starts working she will not have time.

So I have been telling her she needs to focus on work and to just let me pick up everything. This is Phase 1. Phase 2 would be proposing she move near to her job since people here are terrified of commuting long distance; this way everyone can have some breathing room. Phase 3 would be eventually moving to full separation / divorce.  

To prepare, I am trying to interview some babysitters who could potentially assist me in the long term, e.g. picking kids up from school, watching them while I cook dinner, give me some rest time, etc.

I also reached out to my family about the severity of the situation. My father has already pledged to support me financially in the event of custody battle and is also helping me look for lawyers with knowledge of foreigner's rights in this country. I myself contacted the American embassy here to ask for such resources and am awaiting a reply. While I really don't want to go that far, I need to be prepared. I'm sure the last thing my wife wants with a stressful new job to deal with is a court battle that could ruin everything for her.

At the same time, the social worker got in touch with me this morning after having a talk with our psychiatrist, who gave her more of a perspective on the situation. She understands that at this point I am more focused on creating a separate living situation than improving the relationship, but she still suggests me and my wife come in together for an interview. After that she will help me find resources to move toward a separate living situation.

So on the action side, I believe things are coming together towards a possible solution.

On the emotional side, I could be doing a lot better. After what happened, its very hard to be around her, even when she's being her cheerful old self. I can't go back this time. The best I can do is fake it. I often sleep poorly and am more irritable with the kids. Sometimes I need to take anxiety meds just to get through the evening. All I see when I look at her is the person who has kept me in a cage for ten years. But I will not be caged much longer.

Oh, and by the way, she saw our marriage counselor yesterday (for our son, but this session focused on her). I asked her how it went and she said she told the counselor she felt completely unsupported and alone with the kids and how I took her for granted like a nanny. She said she broke down in tears and that the counselor looked ready to cry to (the counselor knows all about her BPD from me and what she's done). She said the counselor told her if I am that way then she should seek a parent support group. [Expletive deleted]. I feel deeply betrayed and frustrated by the counselors need to remain "neutral", even after I have told her about the problem in detail. I will not seek the counselors help again.

~ROE  

@raiana18, thank you for your kind words and so glad bpdfamily has been able to help you, too!
@Woodchuck  , looking forward to getting to know you on here and swapping stories! May I ask what kinds of things you called the authorities for? I don't know what country you are in, but generally if you ask to just leave a record on file it will not impact your wife.

BetterLanes thank you for the beautiful poem. My Roland comes from Stephen King's the Dark Tower, but the lyrics you shared could be describing the same knight character.

~ROE

Hey ROE, I was away on my trip and am just getting caught back up here. Argh! This is painful to read!

I'm usually on Bettering trying to keep up with folks there and hadn't been over here yet... .Was thinking of starting my own post on this board, but then got caught up in reading about you and feeling heartsick at all you are going through, but also really impressed by your strength as you go through all this.

Maybe it is time you start a new thread as it is reaching the page limit and there is still a lot of road ahead for you?... .And we all want to offer you support back!

Glad to hear you are getting out of the cage!    

warmly, pearl.

p.s. although you can't be part of the singing group now I hope you take all the chances to sing that you can. i don't have a nice voice or anything but i have used singing to myself (and to my SO even) in the last years as a way to comfort myself. so, if ya can, keep singing... .freedom songs! redemption songs!  

p.s.s. you are a great guy and the future will surely bring you more happiness someday! hopefully not too far from now! 

Roland,

Thanks for the update.  Don't be so ready to cut yourself off from the counselor.  I learned never to trust my wife's version of other people's reactions and feelings about our situation.  I've had many instances where she said something that sent me spinning off, feeling vulnerable and betrayed, and I later checked things with the person in question who had a totally different memory than my wife.  If your wife says anything about something someone else said or felt, including your kids, you must regard it as very possibly distorted.  I've been burned so many times.  It's of course possible that she accurately relays things sometimes, which makes it tough, but be on guard and don't give up on an outside relationship based on something she says.

The counselor would want to empathize with your wife enough to keep her coming back.  It's a tough place for the counselor to be in.  They may use partial validation, especially in validating her feelings.  It is entirely predictable that your wife would come back insisting that the counselor is entirely on her side.
 Your wife's report that the counselor was about to cry is very subjective and likely distorted.  It could be factual that the counselor recommended a parent support group thinking that your wife could benefit from being surrounded by other parents to influence her.

WW

Hi ROE, I read the counselor part at the end and truly echo what WW said, don’t write the counselor off just yet. I learned, not to listen to my husband’s version of what the counselor told him. Just wait and see what the counselor actually says to you. It’s sort of triangulation, or trying to get a third party to be the “judge”.  At any rate, I wouldn’t trust what your wife says about the counselor.

For what it’s worth, my husband likes to triangulate, or tell me someone else’s words, like... .the old guy neighbor across the street, the mail lady, the preacher, etc.  And the counselor... .

Dig

Hey ROE,

Well done on executing the plan and checking things off. I would agree with Dig, be incredibly sceptical about any ‘information’ you receive back from your W especially as far as professional advice is concerned. It could well be an outright lie or could just be a messed up interpretation. On the other hand, the therapist could merely be suggesting your W does something about her perceived situation of lack of support rather than just moan about her victim status, a bit like “well what are you doing about that luv?”

I look back at my couples counselling and think “how on earth could T not see my W had BPD traits? I said so many things that should be huge red flags and yet she never cottoned on.” Who knows and maybe she did, maybe she saw that I was a reactive non and together we are toxic so best encourage us apart. I never received a headsup if T did think this. Anyway... .

Use the information from your W as ‘a source’ and evaluate that information, store it until you can validate its authenticity and then reason her motivations for sharing that information as when you can confirm or deny it. Few people stockpiled tins of food recently because of the reported new crack in Yellowstone Park even though the tabloids would have us believe the world was about to end?

Thank you all for your comforting words and feedback. After giving it more thought I determined the stuff about the counselor was likely a) an exaggeration / outright lie from her, b) the counselor just trying to offer some proactive, neutral advice, or c) most likely a combination of both.

The one good thing to come out of these sessions is that the counselor has more or less confirmed S5 is ADHD (her son was, too). I find it saddening but also a relief much as when I learned about my wife's BPD. Suddenly I felt so much more clear about their behaviors and could stop blaming myself. It also gives me some direction on how to approach the problem. I will be looking for the ADHD version of bpdfamily soon.

Emotionally, I still feel full of anger and hate. Usually my understanding of my wife's illness helped me move back into compassion but every day I look at her and think of all the ways I could hurt her back. This is not like me, but we all have a dark side, and I will walk the higher path no matter what. I think she is starting to sense the love has run out. I'm considering even telling her if it comes up that as far as I'm concerned she is only a co-parent to me now and my romantic love for her has died. Don't even know if she would care that much.

~ROE

It's sad when love dies, but after such unkindness, it's inevitable. However love can regrow, when one is treated with consideration and tenderness. It's hard sometimes to get past the terrible wounds inflicted, but awareness and behavioral change can assuage the trauma.

The difficulty with forgiveness with a pwBPD is the lack of awareness that they've ever done anything wrong or the unwillingness to admit it and offer genuine remorse that lasts.

Of course you're angry and feel hate for your wife's behavior. You've been living with the consequences.

So sorry, ROE.   

All of your feelings are understandable.  One of the things that helps me to not hate and to reduce my other negative feelings is to think about what will give me more serenity and peace in the long term.  Anger, resentment, and other emotions flare in me from time to time, but I'm able to keep them from staying, which helps my own mental well-being.  It's important, though, to feel the feelings before letting them go, rather than stuffing them.  Did you say you came from an FOO where it was difficult to express feelings?

WW

This is normal, considering what you have been through, completely understandable, a normal human; emotional reaction, but don't stay there too long, as it isn't an emotionally healthy state to be in for too long.


I used to do this too, ie' feel this way, "a dose of her own medicine: that she has been forcing down my throat", .yes, I used to think this way; before I (thought) I began to understand/understand BPD… this phase of anger, you need to just let it go my friend.


Good!… yes, take the “high road” !


Yes, sooner or later, when the Non comes around, and starts acting differently than before, the (abuser), pw/BPD will start to notice, and this is terrifying to them I do believe, as in "loss of control".


If it were me, I would not do that, as another wrote here before, “let her connect the dots”… what purpose would it serve to even tell her that, actions speak louder than words (high road), as you start to act/behave independently/differently to her, I call this disciplined indifference; she will figure it out, and as I wrote above, she will become afraid, as you pass away from her ultimate (perceived) control.

She will have to deal with that "fear" on her own, .you take back your life, and live your life,

Best wishes, Red5

One of the things that I have learned in my own journey is that sometimes kids who are in abusive environments can show behaviors that are remarkably similar to ADHD. I have a friend whose son was even diagnosed with ADHD and was medicated for it. She noticed that his behaviors would be significantly better when he had less time with his dad and less medication.

hey all,

I think this is what has led to my most recent troubles. Him sensing the love was running out after all the mistreatment.

I liked Red5's advice, for myself at least, to leave it unsaid. If you need to say it, say it as long as it is not said in anger or with cruelty.

I had moments, when we used to share a bed, we don't because of work schedules (and BPD related reasons), where I'd lie next to him at night just holding all my anger in and having dark thoughts as well. They are just thoughts. Let them go. We see you on the high road! We're walking with you! 

take care, pearl.

Thank you Red, pearls, Cat, WW and empath. I think your advice is completely right in terms of holding on to hate and making direct statements about lost love. I have in fact recently begun imagining a place of serenity that I might make it to some day. I am starting to have hope that a better situation for me and my children might come sooner than I thought. She has her dream job. The pressure will be intense and the children no longer in her hands. I truly think she would put that job over living with me and kids.

I am more or less already starting to see myself as a single parent. I found a half-decent preschool for my daughter last night and plan to sign her up. I'll be most likely biking the two of them in kid seats to two different kindergartens early in the morning in 37 C weather, but oh well there are showers at my office and I can get some exercise. Life is getting harder and harder but more and more control in my hands. I am in the process of interviewing some nannies to give me support when needed.  

WW you are right in remembering that I come from a FOO that doesn't discuss emotions. But ironically, this is changing because of my situation. I think it's helped all of us to break through all the formalities and actually start sharing with each other. My brother let me know yesterday he got laid off and might have trouble making the rent. That was not the kind of thing I think he would have let me know before. I think my wife's BPD, which nearly destroyed my family relationships, have now in fact made our relationships better and closer!

~ROE

Roland, that's fantastic that you've been drawn closer to your FOO and are getting good support from them.  I'm experiencing a bit of the same here.  It is good to reconnect!

Good luck with all the changes.  Does your wife start her new job in a couple of weeks?

WW

ROE,

Just caught up on this thread... .wow, you really have been through it. I can empathize with what you are feeling. It is very hard at the phase you are in to go about your daily routine "pretending" that things are "normal" and hoping nothing escalates or blows up without warning until you can get every detail in place. In my case, I was not able to effectively plan, but nine months later I am still making it work. I am not where I want to be, but I am not where I was. Caring for a child all by myself is hard, and it was always the source of my greatest anxiety when i thought of leaving, how to leave, when to leave, where to go, who would keep s2, how was I going to work, how would I afford to pay bills alone... .but you know what, every day I have had my needs met and s2's needs met. I found an invaluable support system from my place of employment. UBPDh had spent almost a whole year trying to get me to quit that job. Now I am so glad I didn't.
Being on my own with a child is difficult, but it is not nearly as hard as living every day not knowing when the next abusive episode will take place, and feeling both guilty and powerless at the jeopardy my son was in by living in such an unstable environment. You can do it. I am glad you have some plans in place. Keep your resolve.

Also... .don't give up on your dreams of traveling for your career or singing or anything else you want to do. Concentrate on stabilizing your life, and once the dust has settled somewhat... .you will need something to do to get yourself back. Good luck.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

Hi Roland

You are handling all this so well! I'm sure it doesn't feel like it right now, but I think you will look back at this time in your life and give yourself a pat on the back!

It's so good that you reached out to your family and pulled in support for yourself... .and now that connection is paying dividends. SO good! We both know how important support is, being an expat and a bit isolated. Now you know you are not all alone.

All the feelings (and anger) that you've expressed are totally understandable and normal. Being abused is something that no one should stand for and, when you can finally see things clearly, it's normal to be outraged at what you have endured.

So feel the feelings as they come up and use them to keep your forward momentum. We know you're a nice guy and will always take the high road 

Empath said something that resonates with me:


I would think about this, as your little boy has also endured abuse from your wife. Her threats to leave him could spark a lot of insecurity and acting out in a little kid who doesn't understand that there's something wrong with mummy.

Keep an open mind with this, as the diagnosis comes from your counselor and she doesn't sound like the brightest bulb in the box. It would be interesting to see how he acts when things are more stable at home.

Good luck with your search for a nanny. I hope the Universe sends the perfect one for you!

Sending strength and hugs 
SaM

I agree, ROE, while my children were in state's custody my daughter was diagnosed ADHD and put on medication which caused her to not sleep well, lose her appetite and she promptly lost weight until she was rail thin. After she went to my sister's she stopped taking the medication and she is doing fine now. I do not believe she was accurately diagnosed. Children who have experienced trauma or instability in home lives can exhibit behaviors which may masquerade as disorders. I don't see how child services allowed her to be diagnosed with ADHD because there was no baseline of normalcy with which to compare her behavior.

Your children probably do have some behavior issues and confusion because it is very hard to maintain a secure, stable routine when one parent is neither stable nor secure. If you can find one in your area, a counselor trained to work with children who have experienced trauma or at the least an unstable home environment would be beneficial perhaps. I know that play therapy is used for children younger than five years old.

My kids had all sorts of behavior issues, and some still do, but over time it has gotten better. I feel that increased visitation time with me will help with some of the behavior issues that remain. Your family has all been affected by your situation, and you will probably find that your children may, over time, settle somewhat when the chaos is not ruling the household environment.

take care ROE,

Redeemed

Thank you, everyone for your support on the ADHD issue. It's been a tremendous stressor for me recently.  

She just confessed to me in tears this morning on the phone that she went out last night with some younger guy from the UK she met at a bar with her friend recently who calls himself "The Sex God". The intent was one night stand but she couldn't go through with it. She had lied to me last night and said she was out with her friend. I didn't get angry but told her I cared more about knowing why and she said "because our relationship hasn't been good, I was looking for care and comfort." Yes, it is hard for a relationship to be good when one is randomly hitting you in bed and controlling you from doing something you want to do. But of course this can't enter the conversation. Really no idea on how to navigate this one. She's asking for my thoughts. I don't know what to say. Not particularly hurt about the date but I think she wants me to be upset to show I care about her.  

~ROE

You believe that she's being truthful about not going through with it? She would like you to feel jealous as a sign that you care, but you're not particularly hurt? What does feeling that, or not feeling upset, portend for the future of your relationship? And might this signal a willingness on her part to cheat if she lives in an apartment away from you and the kids?

In many ways, it seems like she's making it easier for you two to go your separate ways. Do you feel like you might be emotionally numb after all she's put you through in recent weeks?   

My first wife used to do this to me, things were really bad in the spring - summer of 1995, hair razing to be exact.

Three small children, and she was acting out, going out, and hooking up... .

I was severely codependent, I would have agreed to anything to get her to "stay"... .she even suggested an open marriage at one point, I said no, we'll divorce instead, then we agreed to a separation agreement.

Somewhere in there she was seeing a therapist to deal with her childhood abuse... .I was dragged into it on three occasions, .and pretty much told that I was going to have to share her with whomever else she decided she wanted to sleep with... .ugh !

To days later after we signed a do it yourself public lawyer separation agreement, .I caught her on the air station with her bf !

I filed for divorce two days later, .and she moved out, leaving me with our three children.

I remember those times fondly, yes I do, .I had decided that I was done being cheated on, and being in a dysfunctional marriage, at that time we'd been married for about eleven years.

I was very happy that she was gone, and it looked as though I would be starting over, she even told me that the children were better off with me, and that I should have full custody... .

I even started seeing a girl from back home (crazy times)... .she was gone, and we heard nothing from her for months, I was actually doing it, I was making it on my own, and taking care of the three little ones, I was still young and in the service at that time, "I had a plan"... .

Months passed, the divorce was just about to go through, and be finalized, and then she showed back up, in tears, a hot mess, .I rejected her, the kids started crying, my heart broke... .there were two suicide attempts, .I then let the recycle occur... .we reconciled, .that lasted about six months, we moved, I deployed, and she went right back to her old behaviors... .ugh !

I typed all that bilge to say this... .your wife is just playing your heart strings... .people who really love each other DO NOT treat each other that way, .period.

Dysfunction is dysfunction, leopards don't change their stripes.

Tread carefully Roland... .you are hearing ONLY what she chooses to tell you, I bet their is much more she is not telling you, she is seeing where your boundaries are, what your deal breakers are... .I will NEVER forget the day, I caught her with her bf, .after she told me that she "just needed some space"... .she lied to me, and it almost killed me... .the whole thing was heart wrenching to me, this was her third cheating scene later I found out, and not the last, I was being played like a cheap fiddle, she was "testing me" maybe, to see how much I would really take(?)... .I had completely resigned myself to starting over without her after that terrible afternoon I found "them" together, it was going to be just me and the children... .she even told me that, told my lawyer that, and off she went... .

Some eleven years later, 2006; she did it all to me again, exact same scenario... .this time, I went through with the divorce... .and did not let her back into my life, even after she played the suicide attempt card yet once again... .that was twelve years ago now... .I remarried seven years ago (interim), to another woman, after staying a single dad for five years... .but she, current u/BPDw; is BPD "lite"... .as Cat describes her relationship(s).

... ."I was looking for care and comfort"... .wow, so that's what they call it now... .in 1995, it was called "ladies night"... .

Be careful Roland !

Red5

Hi Cat and Red, thanks for the needed dose of reality. As of now I still believe she didn't go beyond a date, but letting in a little room for doubt on this. Regardless just as Red said it will definitely happen again in some form.

The end result was we talked it over and she felt very stupid and guilty and apologized, even recognized that I was a kind and supportive husband. I'm not sure if she really feels this way or if she just got really spooked at the idea of losing me. Today she got me a little present. I'm being nice but taking every with a grain (jar) of salt. These might just be measures to keep me around rather than genuine acts of love and remorse. I can't just melt back into being OK with her like I usually do when she turns the sad puppy eyes on me. That said, I also can't go around making conflict when I need to keep a semi-stable home environment for myself and the kids until other arrangements can be made. The book Splitting that WW recommended has been very helpful so far on imagining how this might go.

More on secrets... .

I am scheduled to meet with the social worker one on one later this month. I learned from our psychiatrist yesterday that my wife has been to see a different social worker. Not sure why she is going without me. Have to be careful. But the psychiatrist thought this was an ideal situation since we could each express our own views on the situation. I will bring my printed records... .

~ROE

My ex did this too, I think, that when they venture out a little too far from stability, and safety, and they realize that they were about to commit a "deal breaker", .they may have a moment or two of sanity, .this won't last long, once they get a taste, they will return to it, their great adventure, .my ex called it, "living her life".


This is called "intermittent positive reward"... .this is what the pw/BPD, ie' the abuser will do from time to time, .to keep the Non around, interested, on the line, .whatever you want to call it (hooked)... .give the Non a little bit of hope, after the last beating... .like you are almost about to be smothered, lights out, and then they let you up for a minute or two, to get your breath, they tell you "I love you, sorry bout that", .and you think to your self, "there're back, oh' happy days, the marriage relationship is saved, its going to be happily ever after!"... .but no, then they put that pillow back over your face (metaphorically)_, and start smothering you yet again... .its a cycle, and it repeats itself over and over and over... .


She is counting on this... .look and see now, remember the history (journal), her recent behaviors, .see how far from "center" she went, .and she hurt you unapologetically, and then maybe she got a little nervous, after she threw you under the bus, discarded you so to speak... .and was extremely mean to you... .and then, she came back; so to speak, .EXPECTING you to take her back after her admission... .the cycle is repeating itself?


Back in 1995, when my first wife took off, to be with her new bf, leaving me, and three little kids behind, and eleven years of marriage... .it made me take on quite the survivalist persona... .I cleaned everything up, became very independent, I "took charge"... .I started to get ready to move to my next duty assignment, .I made a plan, without her, .and I started to execute this plan, .and then she saw this, like the train was leaving the station without her, and all of a sudden her "new life"" was not so appealing anymore to her (?), she told me, (quote) "I had no idea you could be that strong"... .(?)... .so she tried to come back, ie' love bomb, intermittent positive reward, .but it did not work like it used to, I had "changed" a little, or so I thought, but she found my soft spot, which was our children, and the memory or else expectation of family; marriage... .for life, .she promised me she would change, and I believed her, .we divorced eleven years later, after she ran off with yet another man, and even got pregnant by him, I was in Japan on deployment, she even dumped our then teenagers off with my own mum, stripped the house, crashed the bank account, and she was off again, to "live her life"... .yeah, long story, this went on for a very long time.

I will repeat, be very careful Roland, only you can know what you need to do, a tough row to hoe my friend.

I was thinking about you this morning on the way to work, and I recalled how I used to think, well over thirty years ago now... .ie' marriage is for life, kids are everything, family is No.1 above all else, marriage vows should never be broken, and I thought my first wife and I would be together forever, no matter what, we could persevere, survive anything to include infidelity (serial), I thought I could "save her"... .that is what I was thinking, .I don't think that way anymore, .and that is kind of sad to me.

Keep posting,

Best regards Red5

Hi ROE,

Oh my goodness! Oh my! That is just... .whew! My SO has said he is out with others at times (he even gave one of his "imaginary girlfriends" a name to make it very convincing!), online dating, getting an arranged marriage with someone from one of his home countries set up, etc. over the years in order to "make me jealous". I am extremely not jealous so his ploys have never worked and I don't know why he still tries them, but I digress. But "The Sex God"... .what the huh? Sometimes it is hard to know whether to laugh, cry, or just fly away!

I think it is actually a good, or at least interesting sign, that she was so (or semi-) honest about it. At least, she told you a version of it, ya know? I would take it as her testing how close to the end things are, the telling you about it part. She may sense your feelings are stale, which of course they are. It was likely also about her getting some "positive attention", though the kind that comes with no responsibility, but does involve risk, and is a no going back from kind of thing. Once she's taken that step it is taken and can't be undone. It probably did scare her because she realized this would change things in a way she/the relationship might not recover from.

Are your feelings totally gone now and you are just working to get away, protect yourself and the kids?

Sorry you are having to deal with all of this! It's not fair!

take good care! ~pearl.

My story with my ex is similar in that he would "confess" to his infidelities (at least the ones where he had no other plausible explanation for his absence) but minimize what happened. Sometimes he would say it "meant nothing" but then I'd learn later that he was seeing that woman again.

I had the "I'm so sorry, you're everything to me" apology fest, complete with tears and blubbering monologues begging for forgiveness. Rinse and repeat.

I have no idea how many times this happened over the years, but I could easily count at least two dozen. Undoubtedly there were more that I never found out about.

Sorry, ROE, if I'm a little jaded and suspicious. It may have been just what she said.

Red and Cat, please keep the wake up call coming. It is always the same. The sorrys and the puppy dog eyes and the presents and cooking me food I like. I'm royalty for 3 or so days after. Then back to neutral. Then its back to hitting / stealing / destroying town.

But this time I know what's coming. I am getting stronger and more independent here (her home country) and this is probably concerning her. I arranged my daughter's preschool and some babysitters completely on my own. My career is taking off. I don't really need to rely on her anymore. 

pearls I don't think my feelings will ever be completely gone. Romantic, more or less, but there is familial love there. She is the mother of my children and we went through raising them together alone. She can never be completely out of my life, and I suppose I will always help her to some degree. But yes, I think I am preparing for an exit of some kind. Next step will be my meeting with the social worker to see what resources they can arrange.

~ROE

ROE,

I'm glad your independence is growing.  As you said, she will notice this, and will feel threatened.  Use validation and other supportive behaviors to try to lessen her fears, while still being honest.

When does she start work?  When do you think you will suggest that she get an apartment?  (I'm not trying to rush you, I admire your measured and step-wise approach.)

A while back, you were at wit's end, pretty strung out.  Are you feeling any better now?  Are you sleeping enough?

WW

Hi WW, she starts work at the end of August. Both our kids will start kindergarten then. I will drop them both off and most likely pick them up. It's all arranged. So they are more or less no longer in uBPDw's hands.

For the apartment timing, I will watch for 1) how my 1on1 appointment with the SW goes later this month and 2) how things evolve after she starts working. She said to me the other day she was sure we could do it. But overwhelming new job stress + BPD + kids in new situation is not going to be a good mixture for any of us. I expect incidents and lots of them that may push the situation towards a natural climax and resolution.

Btw WW I bought Splitting and it is a terrific reference, thank you. I want to aim for the out of court solution they propose but will be ready for the opposite. I will continue consulting with a lawyer my father found with expertise in this country to be prepared for the worst. I have his unlimited financial support on this part if it comes to it.

Feeling wise, it's really minute to minute. I asked the doctor for some anti depression meds and am giving them a try. Sleep is never great with two kids but its been passable for the last few days. I'm extremely happy at new work and extremely unhappy at home. Every day when I make my way home it feels like a death march. I try to enjoy the good moments as they come.

~ROE

Exactly what I experienced, ROE, plus promises "I'll never do that again." Also he'd buy me my favorite candy bar. And then he thought we were all good again.


I'm so glad you're getting strong and independent and certainly that will be seen as a threat by her--might keep her on her best behavior?


I understand this, even though I never had children with my first husband. No matter how awful his behavior was, I still wished him the best and appreciated the sometimes only tiny spark within him that was a kind, loving and good person.

After I ended the relationship, I kinda beat myself up for having stayed so long with someone who was so abusive to me. But all along, I still loved that small part of him that was good. Now, I'm just looking at those years as a function of habit and familiarity--and that I'm an incurable optimist.  

Afternoon Roland from the eastern seaboard of USA,

You sound a lot more stronger, this is good !


I have to tell you, once S2BexW was out of the picture, I felt a measurable degree of freedom, safety, and release, I remember those days all those years ago, taking care of my three little ones, cooking their meals, keeping the house up (apartment), .playing with them after work, taking them to the pool, getting them to bed, and then up again in the AM, and off to school, and me off to work, .wasn't easy, in fact exhausting, but I ate it up, it felt good!... .good to be finally free of her constant behaviors... .so when she finally left for good, some eleven years later, I was able to do it all again, for keeps!


I also remember this, finding a lawyer via personal contacts, and finally filing for divorce, .it felt good to have done this, self protection, .a measure of protection; peace of mind, .a new boundary from her demanding this and that, .ie' open marriage, destructive behaviors, and threats of divorce, constant manipulations... .I have often thought what my life, and my children's lives would have been like, had I stuck to my guns, and not allowed the eventual recycle that occurred, .water under the bridge now.

Stay strong Roland !... .and trust your gut my friend !

Red5

This song describes the feelings of a non dealing with an ex with a personality disorder. In no way am I meaning this as a “run” message, but rather it’s an excellent description of how heartbreaking it is to review such a relationship and think what it could have been, had our partner been emotionally healthy.

Feel free to change the gender in your mind:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HlnJgL3AwA

Tom Petty nailed it !

I remember getting lost in his music, .I used his music to self sooth after the kids were sound asleep so late at night, and it was just me and the little dog still awake... .

I remember letting my thoughts wonder off, and I would wonder where she was, and what she was doing, and why was this all happening, .two albums that are laser etched in my mind... ."Wild Flowers", and "Echo".

It still haunts me to this day when I hear his songs.

This ones on me Roland, enjoy !

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=_wcMYmNU3f8

Red5

Hi Red and Cat, thank you for the musical therapy. Found some catharsis in both.

Here is my anthem for the dad who is trying to do his best in a mess:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzJ2ORXoZA8


~ROE

Music has certainly been a huge support for me when in the midst of dealing with BPD crisis. When I was dealing with husband #1 and associated madness, I played Tom Petty's "I won't back down" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTJrNJ5lA and Incubus' "Drive" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgT9zGkiLig

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