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So I went out with a group of new people tonight. And one of the girls was extremely drunk, and couldnt take care of herself. I was being nice and making sure she was okay. My friend told me im too nice. and her friend doesnt need all that much help.

Then it clicked. Im too much a nice guy. I go out of my way for people without letting them appreciate me.

All these girls I dated, I was there and putting them first. Being able to show them love and care and honesty without letting them work for it. I was too easy. too nice.

I am sad about this, but I think its why these girls ghosted me. They dont want a "nice" guy.

the problem isnt that youre a nice guy, CryWolf, any more than the solution is to "be mean".

a large part of the problem is that youre naive and inexperienced when it comes to relationships. no judgment, thats where everyone starts.

but being naive and inexperienced is leading you to having unrealistic expectations, not reading the cards in front of you, reading into cards that dont exist, and not only overplaying your hand, but its like you keep saying "hit me" after youve exceeded 21. you double down on things you know from experience wont work and then wonder why things didnt work.

thats the other part of the problem - youre not taking any of these lessons on board, and are instead reaching conclusions like these.

you havent been ghosted, CryWolf, and i think members have been trying to tell you this. all of these relationships came to their logical conclusion, and ended, predictably. when someone ends a relationship, they dont stick around and linger or try to help you heal. they move on. its a cold fact of life, but its one that we all face, many, many times - literally every relationship we become a part of until the last one. you will do it to others too.

now there is a separate point youre touching on, that a lot of inexperienced guys who are frustrated in love go through, myself included. a lot of guys confuse "niceness" with being a doormat, having no sense of their own boundaries, and dont realize that the opposite sex isnt someone to be rescued, or some prize to be won. women, perhaps more than men (or perhaps in different ways than most men) are attracted to confidence. a confident man is not someone who jumps through hoops in order to prove his worth to someone and have it validated. and a lot of guys think thats what "niceness" is. if anything, the dark side of it is that theres an underlying sense of entitlement. its not being nice for the sake of being nice. its being nice with the expectation that it will win us the other person.

frankly, you might be watching a bit too much corey wayne, who sells pick up artist tactics rather than how to build a deep, lasting connection with the opposite sex.

if you want a pretty good book on authentic masculinity, authentic confidence and self worth, and being in healthy touch with sensitivities and emotions, i can recommend To Be A Man: https://www.amazon.com/Be-Man-Guide-Masculine-Power/dp/1622032292

Maybe you should be a little more reserved until you get to know them.

I used to be the same way. Helpful and friendly to everyone.

As I got older, I learned to be a little more guarded. I didn't make people "work," but I wait to see a little more of them before I let them in.

Just an idea.

Hey CryWolf,

OnceRemoved has a lot of really great things to say here - and I also want to encourage you to try to step out of this false binary, this or that, kind of mentality. Nice and mean aren't the only ways to be -and there's nothing wrong with being a nice guy. And, as OnceRemoved pointed out - nice guys don't feel entitled to something from a woman, or play into these dynamics of trying to rescue someone.

A drunk girl who is at risk of hurting herself may need a bystander to do the right thing - aka get her home, into a cab, get her water, make sure she's with friends she can trust, etc. There's nothing "nice" about this, it's just the right thing to do. If your friend is calling you out, then maybe he saw something in your behavior that wasn't about being nice but was about deflecting all of your attention onto someone who didn't need it, and likely wouldn't do right with it.

I've been slightly pursuing a woman lately, and by that I mean I've been getting to know her by talking to her, learning about her, etc. The possibility of a date is nowhere on the table, and I'm not even sure how ready I am for something like that yet. But, it's been really interesting to put myself out there enough to invite someone's attention, and check how I feel when I receive it.

Lately, she's been all in - great conversation, receiving me warmly, inviting me to ask/learn more and doing the same. I won't lie - it puts a tingly feeling in my chest that I haven't felt in a really long time. But, the other day, I texted a friend freaking out a bit. What if she's just a nice person and just enjoys my company, but would be really upset if she found out that I was pursuing her/found her attractive? What if I'm crossing a line and don't know it? I was kind of just texting my friend all of the insecure "what ifs" in my head and she had some really great advice: Maybe spend less time wondering what she's thinking and more time asking yourself why you're more interested in predicting what she's thinking/feeling and not just letting yourself be there and think and feel your own things. Excellent advice, no?

So, when I sat with it, I realized that I was a little bit terrified to just let go and enjoy this woman's company and I wasn't trusting her to make her own decisions about who she wanted to spend time with and why. Since then, I've been more relaxed, and more in my own body and mind. The conversation is great, I know I'm a respectful person, and if she gives off hints that she no longer wants to be around me then I'll be ok. The result? Even better conversation and playful banter.

I'm telling you this story for a few reasons. First, to echo Once Removed's recommendation that you spend some time thinking about authentic masculinity and authentic confidence. I worked with a coach on this stuff during the downfall of my marriage (which ultimately helped me to not be a jerk while things were ending) and his advice to me was to work towards the kind of confidence where I could give love away without expectation. Can you give a woman attention without expecting it back? Second, spend some time asking yourself if there's something you are avoiding thinking about/processing because you're too busy doing something that isn't going to help you. Do you have some good guys in your life that would talk to you about this? If not, bring it to the boards. My friend calling me out was one of the best things that has happened. Good luck to you man. You don't have to make people work for your niceness or love - but you do have to be the kind of guy that can give it away without expectation. Let your niceness be a thing that is about YOU, not anyone else.

Hi CryWolf,

As a woman who, like many of us, walks around with a fear of being raped a nice guy like you who did the right thing is a real gem!

Because of those fears, we are also often cautious about who we talk to and what they want from us.  So, nice guys are welcome. Really.

Nice guys can also be confident, and that is, like others have stated, very appealing. So many guys throw themselves at us straight gals that it is easy to notice patterns. Some are jerks and that is pretty obvious right away, they won't take no for an answer and can become angry and aggressive. Others seem to be willing to say or do anything to get your clothes off but aren't sincere. Others can be too friend-like/reserved (or other things) and friend zone themselves right away. Others clearly have no idea how to approach/talk to women, and on and on.

I always liked guys who were themselves. Just themselves. Funny, smart, good looking (a nice face I could look at endlessly), interesting, a few shared interests, a few background things in common, great chemistry, a great kisser, and boom... .we were off and running! The older you get the more interesting and sexy the guys get by the way! It gets better! You're a hoot - women will love you man!

You are in your first dating prime. Have fun. Seriously, have fun!

wishing you love, pearl.

Ah, the conundrum of Mr. Nice Guy. I'm with you,  CW, I was there for many years.  Until I got sick of being friendzoned while at the same time taking on way more support than was healthy.


This is one thing that attracted my ex to me: that she observed me being comfortable in my own skin (despite being a lot prettier than me, she was anything but comfortable in her own skin!). I wasn't the obvious Alpha types she'd previously dated (and when she described then to me I thought,  "insecure idiots, overcompensating", but I was confidant in life. Being almost 11 years older, that naturally helped.  I often thought that if she had met me where I was at her age,  it wouldn't have necessarily clicked.

That brings up another point: the women in your dating pool area likely to more than not act their age.  That is,  they all don't know what they want and may be as a group blowing from here to there.  While I'm not suggesting going for older women (older women were always attracted to me since I was a late teen, creepy in retrospect), I'm suggesting being more discerning and patient. I know that's hard both emotionally and physically. Given that,  it's also hard to slow down. 

Dig into your core values,  and search for someone who aligns with those.  There may be many false starts, but that's ok.  This is YOUR life your talking about,  not theirs. 

Hey there, CryWolf. I think you’ve gotten some pretty solid advice here. I also have to say that the experiences that you describe on this forum resonate with me a bit. I can relate to being the nice guy of the group that I ran with in my younger days. It’s a group that, looking back, I wish I had not invested so much of my youth in, but that’s for another thread. Anyhow, the girls that were being played by the guys in my circle would befriend me a lot. I could tell that sometimes they were trying to feel out the other guy by asking me about them. Triangulation maybe? There was one in particular that was a real friend. I miss her. Anyway, I’m getting off track here.

What I want to talk about are the differences between being nice and being good. This is a topic that my T has brought to my attention recently while discussing  red-flag’s in the people we meet. Being nice is an act, while being good is a virtue. Please don’t take this as an insult, Brother. I’ve been in your shoes and I empathize with you. I think that being nice can be a result of being good, but being nice can be used to deceive as well I believe. Perhaps being nice can be viewed as a   red-flag at times. Being good can’t be disputed. At least by a healthy observer. A modern day philosopher that I sometimes listen to has an interesting take on love. He says that “love is our involuntary response to virtue”. I have looked at love from a different perspective since sitting with that statement.

Slow down, CryWolf. You’re a young man. Enjoy your youth. It will go by faster than you can currently imagine. Be who you want to be. Let goodness be a defining factor in your character and personality. Stop being the “nice guy”. Be the “good guy”. I think that this will work out in your favor and possibly repel some unwanted situations that may present themselves on your journey. You are a good guy, CW. That’s evident from your participation on this site. Be patient with the time you have. Embrace your youth. Take good care bud.

Hey JNChell,

Thanks for sharing that - that is so perfect and makes me a little mushy inside to hear it!

Head high CryWolf! Keep building up your confidence!

sincerely, pearl.

Hey pearlsw. It made me mushy as well. I hope I can find my way to it eventually. If I ever do, I have a lot to explain. I just hope that I eventually have the opportunity to explain where I’ve been.

Yes. CW, give us a shout.

Hey, CryWolf.  You've gotten some nice feedback here.  How are things going this week?  I know you're about to start a new semester at school.  How are feeling?