BPDFamily.com

I haven’t been very active on the boards over the past couple of weeks, and I’m sorry for that... .There have been many new posts that I would have liked to respond to, but I have been trying to give myself a little space.

Only now, I’m struggling a bit and need an outlet.  As always, I’m very thankful for this site being here to take it in... .

I’m not going to do my usual thing of diving into the details and wind up posting a really long message.  It’s getting late, and I want to go to bed.  All I can say is that my therapy session on Tuesday seems to have prompted some thoughts that I’m still not sure how to process or handle.

My T asked me about my goals right now, which I was sort of able to answer... .you know, wanting to help my kids develop into emotionally healthy adults after all the sh*t associated with having a parent with borderline traits brings, wanting to grow a bit in my career... .

She asked me if I want to actually feel happy, beyond the 6 or so on a scale of 1 to 10 that I have had in my “best” moments lately.   Of course I would... .wouldn’t anyone? But she recognizes how hard it is for me to conceptualize something that I just don’t think is going to happen.

She also asked me to think about what I need and want.  And there’s where I am really stuck.  Because on the one hand, it doesn’t seem to really matter what I need or want. I have been pretty well conditioned to think that way over the last several years in my marriage.  And as far as needs go... .I don’t want to need anything. Because it feels like just a matter of time before those needs either get turned against me or they just don’t get met.

Not to mention the fact that I thought I had all I needed and wanted in my marriage, only to find that I never had what I thought I did.  And/or I had it, and it transformed into basically the opposite, and did who knows what kind of damage to me in the process.

Maybe I’m just being a little hormonal at the moment.  I’m just having trouble shaking this, and am generally really tired of dealing with all of it. (NO thoughts of self harm, I promise... .I’m just truly tired)

mw

Awwww Mama-wolf sending you some    ! 

You've been conditioned not to have needs, to put your needs on the back burner at the very least, you've been burned and are gun shy.

Asking you to think about what you need is like asking you to walk on atrophied legs.  You're out of practice and are in self-protection mode... .expressing our needs makes us feel vulnerable particularly when our needs have been used against us.

No one says you have to come up with your top 100 needs list tonight   ... .sleep on it and sit with it for a little while.  In a few days I bet you come up with a couple.

Others here maybe able to share with you some of the things that they need for themselves.

I'll give you one of mine... .I need quiet time to do art, it's the one time I don't ruminate on the past or worry about the future, I am "in the now" and creating something beautiful.

Now get some rest!

Panda39

Thanks, Panda... .you're right that my needs have been subjugated in favor of the needs of others (especially my stbx) for a very long time, and that's a great analogy about atrophy.

In session, I couldn't really even start to list anything, so my T tried to help me frame it in terms of what I knew I wasn't getting in my marriage.  I think that's part of what's really bothering me.  I have found it very painful to face those specifics.  While in the crisis of those last few months, it was enough to know at a higher level that I needed to get out.  But evaluating the details of exactly why I needed to get out, and what those things mean to me personally... .I want to run away from that full tilt. 

Recognizing what I didn't have/lost/had taken away from me gets to that question of whether I should feel relieved now that I'm out of it.  And that brings me back to beating myself up for letting myself get into a bad situation like that in the first place.  I generally grapple with self-worth, with accepting that my needs are important at all.  And yes, I want to feel happy, but I still struggle with the guilt that tells me I shouldn't get to be happy.  Intellectually, I see the flaw in all of these and we have touched on them in therapy.  I'm recognizing that I'm kind of stuck at the moment, but I am really trying to find that path forward to where I can really feel worthy of more than the basics (food, shelter, safety, etc).

mw

I encourage you to push through the urge to run, but instead lean into this.  This is where the learning begins.  This like everything else is a journey it's hard but can be very rewarding.  That journey to understand ourselves better, to find our authentic self, discover our own worth leads to a more fulfilling life. Note: this is an on-going process not something that happens over night.

I'm still on my own journey that started nine years ago... .the first year was a series of breakdowns that became breakthroughs, it involved crying everyday, it involved epiphanies, it involved leaning on friends, asking for help, it involved working through an important relationship that had ended 25 years before, ending a co-dependent marriage, letting go of trying to please my mother and most of all for me pushing through fear. I still have those epiphanies but they are farther apart.  These days they often involve reading something here, or in a book but I still have those "a ha" moments.  This life is about learning.


You made a choice that turned out to be a mistake.  This does not make you a bad person or a dumb person.  I think it highly doubtful that you looked at your ex and thought what a mess, I will be horribly unhappy in a relationship with them... .Yay! that's just what I want!  You saw something there that you thought had potential and gave it a shot.

Show yourself the compassion you would for a friend that went through a bad break up.

This painful loss is a learning opportunity for you, things to think about why did you make the choice you did?  What were you getting out of the relationship?  What was good about the relationship?  What would you like to change going forward?

For myself, my story began long before my 47 year old breakdown.  It began with a critical mother, it began with internalizing the messages I received from her... .that I wasn't smart enough, that I wasn't as good as my brother... .that I wasn't good enough.

It was tied to my first love who I was with from 16-25 who I adored and hoped to marry, but instead cheated on me an broke my heart.  It was blaming myself for the break up... .if I had only done xyz he wouldn't have cheated.  It was stuffing the pain and never talking about it or working it through.  It was about the "not being good enough message" being reinforced.

It was meeting my ex-husband in June the next year, dating in July and getting engaged in August. Why did I marry him?  He asked... .and I wanted to prove to my ex and myself that someone could love me and commit to me when he couldn't.  I wanted to live up to what I thought my mother's expectations were... .I was 26 it was time to get married.  I wanted to feel better about myself so I married my rebound man.

I married an alcoholic.  I stayed in a co-dependent marriage for 20 years and spent much of that time depressed.  Again I stuffed my emotions.  I wasn't enough... .I wasn't worth taking care of.  What was I getting out of this marriage?  I got to feel better about myself by stepping on my husband.  I was superior to him... .I wasn't an alcoholic, I was responsible, I was the good parent, I must not be all bad right?  I was better than him right?

I eventually started taking baby steps to climb up the hole that is depression.  I quit smoking in 2005, I participated in a craft fair (art/creativity is a big part of who I am) and started getting back in touch with my authentic self, I started working on my appearance.

In 2009 I heard from my first love... .he was a catalyst.  He told me how much I meant to him all those years ago.  Like the Grinch my heart (self-esteem) grew three times that day.  I was reminded that I was loved/lovable, I was reminded of who I was... .and the daily crying began.  I was letting it out all of the pain I stuffed, years of it. 

I came to understand that his leaving had something to do with him too, that not only did I love him, I was disappointed, sad, and angry.  I later came to forgiveness.  I let go of 20 years of pain and love.  I let go of him and then I let go of my husband.  During all of this I was finding me again. 

I realized that my mom's view of me was only her view, and it had everything to do with her and very little to do with me.  She was concerned about how I reflected on her, she was worried about what other people thought and those are her problems.  I am a great person and have many wonderful people in my life that love me just as I am.

I hope my story gives you an idea of what this type of journey can look like if you push through the fear and take on your own challenges.

Discover and value the authentic mama-wolf, you are worth it and it is worth it!

Panda39

This is the lesson I've been working on for the past year.  Well, one of them.    I think it may need to go on the list of things you need - Grace and compassion for yourself.  Permission to be imperfect and in pain. 

One of the beagle traits that I identify with is a relentless tenacity.  Once on the trail of something, they will pursue it despite bleeding paws to the point of literally dropping from exhaustion.  It is really easy for me to get in that mindset.  It's funny when I write it out, but I often take the approach of "I'm going to heal if it kills me". 

I can see myself in your shoes, hearing from my T that I need to figure out what I want/need and feeling like I couldn't rest until I had finished that assignment.  I'm very fortunate in that my T recognizes that tendency in me and reminds me that these are questions that I need to START looking at, but there's no timeline for answering them. 

I have learned that healing usually happens in the quiet times.  I HATED the quiet times.  The quiet times where when I had to sit with the pain and doubt and fear and loneliness.  I wanted the healing to happen because I was strong and could fix this.  Instead, it only came when I was able to recognize how broken I was. 

I would NEVER sit a hurting friend down and say "Dry up those tears and fix this.  Get over it and move on.", but that's exactly what I was saying to myself.  I would never say to someone who had been wounded by someone they loved "This happened to you because you screwed up and you weren't worthy of better.", but that's what I was saying to myself.  I'm learning to look at myself the way I look at those I love.  They aren't worthy because they do all the right things.  They are worthy because of who they are.

Mama-wolf, you are worthy of the time it will take to heal.  You are worthy of love throughout that healing process, not just when you have "fixed this".  You are worthy of love even when (especially when) you are broken and wounded. 

BG

Panda and BG, I really appreciate your encouragement--thank you!

In a prior session when I talked a bit about the guilt and difficulty allowing myself to feel happy, my T instructed me to show myself some compassion. So, I did what I typically find myself doing when she brings up ideas or concepts... .I started doing some research on those terms, trying to stick to psychology resources or even academic articles as opposed to individuals' blogs or generic sources on the internet.  I get compassion for others, but was specifically looking for guidance on turning that inward.

In that search, I came across Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff (https://www.amazon.com/Self-Compassion-Proven-Power-Being-Yourself/dp/0061733520/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533823833&sr=8-1&keywords=self-compassion+by+kristin+neff&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER) and ended up buying the book.  I think I got a little ahead of myself though, because the author talks about how the first major requirement is to "recognize our own suffering."  Maybe some of it is obvious to others, but much of it I have suppressed for so long that I struggle to identify what is actually causing me pain.  And for what I do recognize, I struggle with being willing to acknowledge it.  I know this is the part I need to lean into, but I'm going to need my T's help with that.

The other part that trips me up is the next step of openly evaluating how you feel as a result of the pain.  I find it so hard to even identify what I am feeling, much less articulate it for my own or others' understanding... .I just don't feel like I have the vocabulary for it.  So I set down Self-Compassion (the book) until I can discuss more with my T about how best to address the pain and emotion pieces, but that's not to say I can't at least do some of the things you have both encouraged here.  Yes, I can still at least curb the impulse to "speak" to myself in ways that I would never speak to a friend, and I can try to show myself more patience, as I would a friend. That part I get. 

And while I have set aside that other book, I at least went back to listening to the audio version of Daring Greatly by Brene Brown (https://www.amazon.com/Daring-Greatly-Courage-Vulnerable-Transforms/dp/1592408419), which was recommended a few months ago by both my T and the MC I was seeing with my stbx.  It's also good content... .only I quickly found that in the chapter I had just started (Chapter 6) she actually refers the reader to Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff, so it looks like I'll be coming full circle!

Again, thank you for the support.  It really helps to get the thoughts out and put some order around them... .and to get the feedback here from other members.

(And see HQ... .I finally used the fancy links!)

Mama-wolf,
I can definitely appreciate the challenge in identifying and acknowledging the feelings you are having.  I tend to want to talk myself out of "bad" feelings as quickly as possible, or stuff them.  I'm getting some good(?) practice in recognizing and owning and processing those difficult feelings right now. 

I went through DivorceCare last summer/fall.  One of the things they encourage you to do is list out all the losses you are experiencing.  I never did.  I didn't want to face them all on paper, because I was afraid the feelings would break me.  I did end up facing them one by one, and I am now more in tune to that feeling of loss and the other emotions that surround it.  Today I'm feeling somewhere between frustrated and angry.  There's a good deal of confusion.  My usual MO would be to go to work on resolving the confusion and push aside the frustration/anger, but now I'm spending some time with those feelings.  I'm taking time to recognize where they are coming from and work through them.

One of the things I've been confronted with a lot in the past few weeks is the knowledge that the good things that are happening in my life do not cancel out the pain I'm feeling.  The pain can coexist with the gratitude.  I can be angry about something and feel the injustice of it without denying that there are some bright spots and hope for the future.  It's like getting rained on while staring at a rainbow.    The rainbow is there and beautiful, but I'm also wet and cold. 

I know this can be just as frustrating to hear as it is comforting, but it sounds like you are exactly where you should be, given the circumstances.  In fact, you are probably a little ahead of schedule in the healing process.  You are feeling things you don't have vocabulary to express.  The vocabulary will come.  The ability to feel the feelings is what's encouraging.  You have recognized the need to lean on trustworthy supports and sought them out.  You are researching but also recognizing when it's time to step away from a given "lesson".  This really is hard work and it's easy to focus on how much further we have to go.  I want you to know that I see how far you've come. 

BG

 :hi: mama-wolf,  I am impressed with the progress you are making.  I’m so thankful for the BPD family and to share this journey with fellow travelers.  Panda and BeagleGirl this is great discussion.  It is absolutely an evolution .  I was remarking to my therapist that it’s no wonder so many people just accept their unhappiness, give up and stay stuck.  Growth and change are often a painful metamorphosis.   I really like the way that BG says “Permission to be imperfect and in pain.”  

Mama-wolf, I can identify at your hesitation to claim happiness.  I think partly because of my religious upbringing, partly because of my spouse’s unhappiness, when I am happy, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.  When I am experiencing happiness, I am aware of its fleeting quality.  But, we deserve happiness and I am trying to purposely participate in activities that bring me happiness.  What brings you happiness?

I can also relate to not knowing what I need.  I have been trying to consciously dial into my needs.  I actually have found that exercise - yoga and being in nature - bikeriding, walking on the beach, paddle boarding helps me be more in tune with myself.

I haven’t read Self-Compassion, but I have read Daring Greatly.  I think Brene Brown is on to something.  Plus I am an alumni from the college where  she teaches and that makes me like her even more  

Recognizing your own suffering is difficult for sure.  In therapy, I tend to rush through when speaking about my pain.  In the last session, I had acknowledged very painful emotions about ending my marriage, tears were starting and then went on to say but I have other support - family, friends shutting down my painful emotions.  Basically, I was invalidating my own pain.  She brought me back and said you have experienced traumatic pain.  You have every right to feel sad, etc.  

I am sharing my experiences to say, you don’t have to do this perfectly.  I’m not doing it perfectly, but I am doing it.  I am confident that you will find the vocabulary to articulate your emotions.  

Peace and blessings,

Mustbeabetterway

BG and Mustbe, thank you for pointing out progress on my part.  It's hard for me to see that I have actually made any progress to get where I am now.  I do sense a change on some level, but at the same time I question whether it's a move in the right direction.  Intellectually, I understand that it is, but internalizing that is the hard part.  And now I feel pretty stuck... .not only because of the painful work I see ahead (which is scary enough) but because the path forward just seems impossible.

When these books refer to acknowledging pain or identifying feelings and encourage different exercises to help address them, I tend to think that's generally meant for the average reader.  But for someone like me, who is definitely below average when it comes to emotional awareness and connection, in addition to dealing with the aftermath of having had a pwBPD... .the gap between the concepts/suggestions and actually being able to implement just seems too wide to cross.  Which I guess is why I stay in therapy.


I believe you, and I used to recognize this more freely... .the ability for good and bad feelings to exist at the same time.  I know I even felt it at various times, on some level, but now there is a cynicism and negativity that keeps trying to intrude on my world view. This gets to the issue I have expressed before about questioning my own identity.  I have always had an "it'll be OK/things will work out" kind of attitude.  And now I struggle to believe that I can feel happiness while still working through some of the most painful experiences in my life... .or even beyond.

My T reassured me in the last session that I know who I am, and when I expressed continued doubt about that, she walked me through identifying things that I know about myself.  We covered things that I do agree with... .I'm a very patient person (well... .patient with others, if not myself), I appreciate structure, am a very good planner, things like that.  But what we didn't cover was the things that I have been questioning about myself.  My resilience, strength, self-worth... .and now the loss of my generally positive outlook.  My T reassured me about some of these things when the subject of identity came up several sessions ago, but it's definitely not resolved.


So, yes... .I guess this is an indicator of progress.  I have been mostly numb through so much of the last several months.  Feeling "bad" over the last several days is something, even if I can't narrow down "bad" to something more specific.  Again, thank you for pointing out the progress because it helps.  It helps to know that I'm not just struggling for nothing.


I can answer to what used to bring me happiness, but there is still very little that I can say currently does.  Travel, movies, hiking, spending time with friends, reading a good sci-fi book, helping others, being with my kids.  I have been specifically making plans for myself to do many of these things since the separation... .proactively making plans with friends, getting out of town for a day or two when I don't have the kids, reading, catching up on movies I haven't had the chance to see yet.  And I try to relax and enjoy my time with the kids when I have them, though there's a lot of stress there too since I'm on my own.  As I do these things, I do smile and laugh, I joke and can act playful.  It's just that it feels like that's all at the surface level and doesn't quite penetrate to an actual feeling of happiness.


Yes, I know I have done this in session... .shut down my reaction to painful topics.  I think my T has purposefully let me get away with it before due to crisis of the moment and what I was trying to work through in the separation.  But I'm pretty convinced we're now headed into a time where she's going to press me more on this.  It's what has started making me feel anxiety about going to my appointments now (which I have acknowledged to her).

Evolution... .growth... .healing... .As necessary as it all is, it's all so exhausting.  It's hard to give myself permission to stumble, take time, need encouragement, and accept comfort.

mw