BPDFamily.com

You may know me from the Conflicted board.
I definitely don't belong there any more.

My wife left me on Tuesday and took our son (4y9m) with her. She moved to her brother's house half a mile away.
I asked for my son to stay with me this weekend and initially my wife agreed to both Saturday and Sunday but strictly for the hours 11am to 5pm on both days. Definitely not overnight.

Then yesterday evening (Friday) she called to say that she was hiring a psychologist to make an evaluation of my son to assess how much he has been "traumatized by his father's behaviour".  She mentioned a time when my son was sitting on my lap and he slid off. She also mentioned a time when my son's foot was on my lap.  In both these situations we were fully clothed.  My wife said that her lawyer advised for there to be no contact between me and my son until the evaluation takes place.  No date has been given.

I am very sad that I have not been able to see my son whom I miss dreadfully. I am also very concerned that she might be coaching him for the psych evaluation and planting false memories.

My lawyer says that I have a right to see my son but that we should wait and see what happens with this evaluation before reacting. 

Very important question, mother will no doubt be priming the psychologist to see everything her way, however I should hope that a perceptive and experienced professional would insist on meeting both parents before giving is evaluation.

In fact, if you don't know already who the professional is, your lawyer needs to find out so that you can be made available to also meet with the psychologist.

At this point, with nothing happening in court yet, there are no orders, either for evals or for a parenting schedule.  Without a court order you both are viewed as having equal but undefined parenting rights.  Like the old Wild West, too often possession is 9/10 of the law.  And police likely won't help you (though they will rush to help her) until you have a court order in hand.  Probably sooner than later you need to get an equitable parenting schedule ordered.  In many courts mothers get default though unwritten preference in court.  In my case, I worked a regular schedule and so got stuck with alternate weekend temp orders for a couple years in family court even though at first my spouse had a Threat of DV case pending against her and I had temp protection in another court.

On the other hand, I do recall that when I and my ex had a Custody Evaluation ordered by the court, with psych tests, in-depth sessions with both parents and children, his initial report stated that my parenting style (don't recall precisely what I did) was more normal than my ex's.  And our child appeared more relaxed with me too.  Then again, he was a child psychiatrist who also lectured at the local university, so he was really, really good.

One problem with the legal system is that the accuser can get the target to submit to a Psych Eval when often it is both that ought to be evaluated.  If she makes allegations or tries to block your parenting then be sure to not agree to just you being evaluated.  Make sure any evaluation order includes her too, both parents.  (Of course she will hate any light being shined on her.)

Also, beware of the disclose-to-the-other-party trap.  My ex and I were ordered to do (very basic) psych evals and share them with the other side.  Guess what?  I did mine (anxiety) and shared.  Her?  Crickets.  To this day I still don't know if she ever got her psych eval.  So warn your lawyer that he can't share your results without getting hers at the same time.  "Dear ex's lawyer, I have my client's report.  We can exchange the reports once your client has completed her evaluation."  I bet if she gets evaluated, she will not want it shared.

Your main goal right now is to get the best temp order you can get.  Beware that those early hearings are usually only a half hour or so, only the basics get addressed.  Don't let your lawyer say like mine did, "Shh, be quiet, we'll fix all that later."  Later was nearly two years later in the Final Decree.  Court had many opportunities to fix issues during the divorce process but never made any improvements to the temp order, not one.  After all, it was only temporary.  Oh, yeah?  Two years is temporary?

As distressing as it is not to see your child, you can survive it.  I was blocked for 3 months before I got a divorce temp order.  (She was claiming I was dangerous, a stalker and harassing her.  That was part of the reason I didn't see him for 3 months, I couldn't risk going to her door or seeking him out and risking getting arrested on some pretext from her.)  When the magistrate confirmed from her that I hadn't seen my son for 3 months, he said, "I'll fix that."  He issued a temp order that I get alternate weekends.  No make-up time.  Certainly no consequences for her, not until years later.

It's good you have an L... .my concern is that he seems passive. Our cases need assertive lawyers (different than aggressive).

You might want your L to run interference here. Propose three child psychologists that you approve of, then let her pick one, and communicate this through your L. Make sure the ones you pick are ethical and insist on both parents being involved. A psychologist that does not give you a fair shake can do a lot of damage, especially when you are potentially going to be falsely accused of something horrific like molestation. 

It's also a good idea to read Dr. Craig Childress's work on how to interact with a child psychologist doing any kind of evaluation. There are specific skills for these kinds of interactions that are not intuitive and must be learned.

www.drcachildress.org/asp/admin/getFile.asp?RID=63&TID=6&FN=pdf

What is happening now, Dragon? I hope you've been able to utilize these great suggestions from ForeverDad and livednlearned.

I'm in the process of changing lawyer. My present one is not at all proactive.
My wife still hasn't let me see my son.  But I have been able to talk to him twice briefly on the telephone.

This week I returned to work at my school after the summer vacation. I'm very glad of the distraction. The kids start again next week.  I teach in the highschool part of the school where my son attends the Kinder section.  It's one of the top 10 private schools in the country, and I'm lucky enough to get an ever-increasing percentage of the fees paid by my employer. This year I am up to 90%. Next academic year I will not have to pay a penny for my son's schooling at my school for as long as I am employed there.

Today I went to see the Kinder school psychologist to inform them of my situation (that my wife and I had split and that she is not allowing me access to my son).

This evening, my wife phoned me and informed me that the psychologist that she hired to make an evaluation of our son has recommended that he does not attend my school any more and that my wife is now looking for another school for him to attend.

I am devastated.  

Tomorrow morning I will contact a lawyer who comes highly recommended in high conflict divorces.
I hope he takes my call on a Saturday.

Would she have the money to do that?

I can't imagine a court forcing you to pay for another school... when you have worked to provide a school for him.

Best of luck getting a lawyer quickly.  As others have said, proactive is really important.

FF

How convenient that "her" psychologist made such a recommendation.

You may want to hire your own psychologist to see if that recommendation holds any water.

Did she hire the psychologist without consulting you? In my court, the fair way to handle the selection of a psychologist is for one parent to suggest two or three from a court approved list, and then the other parent gets to select which one will do the evaluation.

Also, where I live, and throughout much of the US, the status quo conditions for a child goes a long way.

Most courts do not want to see kids experience unnecessary disruption. Removing your son from your care, and then trying to remove him from the school where he has been attending -- that is a lot of disruption for a child and reflects badly on her judgment. She may make the argument that having your son be at your school gives you an unfair advantage or something equally kooky.

Hopefully your new L will be proactive and assertive, and help you turn this around. What helped me in my case, and what took a many years to learn, is to come to court with a reasonable solution and consequences for non-compliance. Judges in the US want parents to decide what's best for the child, but most parties come forward blaming the other parent -- they want the judge to punish the other parent or decide what's best. So if you come forward and say, "The psych eval was not court-ordered, and did not engage my client in any whatsoever. Furthermore, the recommendation from the psychologist is not in the best interests of the child. We propose that my client select three child psychologists and the opposing party can choose which one will do a custody evaluation, including an MMPI-2 psychiatric evaluation of both parents. If opposing party has not selected the child psychologist by day/date, my client will make the selection. If the selected psychologist cannot start the evaluation before day/date, my client will call the second psychologist on the list.  While this evaluation is pending, there will be a temporary custody order in place, 50/50 visitation, primary physical custody for the father, joint legal custody, child stays in the school in which he is enrolled, etc."

What documentation do you have that the psychologist really recommended that?  Did you ever get to have a sit-down session with that psychologist?  In my estimation, simply as peer support who has been around the block on this matter, sounds like she was shopping for someone to agree with her.

Generally, if there are no orders in place then both of you have "equal but undefined" rights as parents.  That means if she tries to move him to another school then you ought to be able to say "No", or at least "No changes until court rules."  I doubt another school would accept him without your written approval unless you abdicated.  You didn't agree to whatever 'her psychiatrist' would recommend, right?

I repeat, if you never were contacted by that supposed professional, what she claims was recommended is suspect.  If you never got a written recommendation, then it is doubly suspect.  Could she be expecting that you'll just roll over on her Say So?

Interesting that tuition is mostly covered in your current school.  Beware if she tries to go elsewhere and stick you with the extra costs.  I recall this extreme report from maybe a decade ago.


Courts are generally not inclined to let parents move kids around schools unless both parents are agreed.  Or for good cause.  What if she moves outside the local area, has school decision-making (such as with a temp custody order), as in "I moved so child has to go to a school in my new area"?  I agree, get legal advice, sooner the better.  Probably a good idea to get multiple legal consultations if you haven't yet found or decided on an experienced, proactive attorney.

Have you read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by William Eddy & Randi Kreger?  That is a must-read for us here facing high conflict in court.

Would it be wise to send a letter to the new school saying you DO NOT approve the move.

I suppose you would have to know where the school is.

Also... .might be good to document in writing a "certified return receipt" letter to your wife saying you do not approve move and want to be part of the evaluation.

Any thoughts on this?

Others think this is wise?

FF

I have a date with a new highly recommended lawyer tomorrow afternoon.

Keep us posted.   

Sorry to read this.  It is patterned and predictable (and unfortunately familiar) behavior.  The books Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline Or Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Co-Parenting With A Toxic Ex (both recommended in the co-parenting classes required by the court here) have been very useful in making me realize this sort of thing happens all the time and how to go about best preparing for what will be a very long slog through the legal system. 

Unfortunately as noted above possession is 99.9% of the law until you get much further into the case. 

Also as noted an evaluation should be jointly agreed upon.  You should try to get your ex to agree to an order for a private custody evaluation if you have the resources for it (and make sure your attorney knows several good evaluators to suggest). 

My wife rolled a truck up to the house and grabbed everything she wanted (including our daughter) and disappeared without any notice (including even telling the custody evaluator that she saw the day before doing that).  Fortunately I knew where she was going (out of state to another area of the country).  An emergency order got her back with our daughter (but only after a month out of state together and after I was held hostage to pay for an apartment for her for 10 months when she returned).  Even with that she refused me any access once they were back.  Another emergency order got me the alternate weekends plus an evening each week (and that probably only because my attorney is well known and reputable and could make a case for how extreme her behavior was - the court said her not allowing me any access ahead of the initial PL hearing was not an emergency!). 

After the first weekend the ex sent our daughter to the door for the mid-week evening together to announce she wasn't going with me.  Being prepared for anything and everything allowed BIFF to kick in on the spot and say the time wasn't optional which eventually resulted in a strained evening together between my daughter and I.  You'll have to be prepared for anything, ready to think on your feet, and always calm and practical and documenting the patterns. 

It's all evidence for the PL hearing.  Hopefully the judges will understand the circumstances and the merits.  Things like this happen all the time since BPD or NPD are fundamental ingredients in contentious divorces and probably are factors in most highly disputed ones.  The details of the shenanigans they will pull seem to vary from case to case but the books emphasize there are very predictable patterns of actions. 

Good luck.  Stay strong. 

The kids' mom did the same thing. I'm so sorry your son's mom is threatening that move. LnL is right that this will NOT look good for her down the road if she follows through.

Good job talking to the kinder psychologist at the school. Even if it's not for issues around your school specifically, maybe keep the door open on that relationship. It's good to remember that you don't actually have to take your kid in in order to talk to a child psych, and they can still give very helpful advice.

FD mentioned


Or... .with your express written disapproval, as formflier suggested? Ask your L.

I remember back when the kids' mom was pulling them out -- after DH got a job there (it's like they use the same playbook  ) -- was when I first went on those "free legal advice" boards to see if a school enrollment form counted as an "educational record". In our US state, the NCP may "inspect and receive" any educ records. If you think she's going to pull a "I'm not telling you where I'm going to try to enroll him" move, come up with a few guesses and stay in touch with front offices at those schools. Or check with your L to see if that's the best use of your time. It's more a reactive than proactive move but if she gets paranoid it can help you track down where she's trying to enroll your son.

Maybe use email as well as the "certified receipt" method for documenting that you do not consent/agree to moving Son's school. Get that paper trail.

Other ideas to consider are to dig up any docs you have indicating that she approves of the school you work at. Build a timeline around when exactly she "suddenly" didn't want Son in school any more. Correlate to texts/emails from her to you that "it's over".

Re: formflier's suggestions


Yes, certified mail PLUS email of not agreeing with the school move. You could include verbiage that it is not in your son's best interest.

Saying you "want to be part of the evaluation"... .hmmm... .maybe there is a more proactive move here? Not exactly sure, but maybe something like "Provide me with Evaluator A's contact info by Day/Date; if I don't hear from you by then, I will have Evaluator B commence an assessment".

I'm so sorry, dragon72. The "you're out of school because your dad teaches there" move is cruel. I promise you're not alone in this. It's going to be hard for a little while but it can get a lot better. Make some proactive moves now, collect data, work with your L on an assertive plan, keep trying to contact your son and document how often you try. You might need to go in "just getting it done mode" for a while because it is a LOT. It's hard with all the FOG left over. Let us help you out.

kells76

Write down your questions so that you don't forget to ask something.  Besides getting some specific legal answers, also ask for strategies that would be helpful, both short term and long term.  Facts are nice, but time-tested strategies are worth their weight in gold.

Remember, your consultation is confidential.  She has no right to demand details, not even to know about it.  (Don't let her get access to any receipts or notes.)  Also, you do not have to submit to late night interrogations.  You have the right to privacy.  And very likely any attorneys you get consultations with can't later accept her as a client.

How did the date with the lawyer go?

I agree with LnL's point about hiring a neutral psychologist with input from both lawyers.  Did the psychologist not even talk to you?  It seems likely that he just accepted her distorted views.  I heartily recommend MovingAlong's recommendation to read Splitting.  I can't remember if you've told us if you've read it yet?  This is not a light recommendation.  You really need to read that book.

WW

Thanks for all the input everyone.
I have "Splitting" and I am currently reading it for the 2nd time.

My lawyers have met with my wife's lawyer.  The concerning thing is that her lawyer is a criminal prosecutor and not a divorce specialist. This means that my wife is most likely preparing to file an accusation of sex abuse. 

My lawyers put forward my case to her lawyer urging an agreement to agree to giving me access to our son and for him to .remain in his school.  My wife's lawyer is going back to her to discuss.

Meanwhile, my wife has been to our son's/my school to demand the papers she needs to release him from that school and enrol him in another.  The school is not legally allowed to issue those papers without the consent of both parents. There's not a chance in a million years that I will agree to release him from that school.  So I'm guessing she'll "go nuclear" and file a sex abuse allegation against me with the police to really turn up the heat and damage me.

Another worrying development is that the therapist who saw us as a couple and who explicitly told me that she thought my wife's behaviour was "delusional and psychotic" is refusing to play ball and write a statement of her professional opinion.

So I can see the whole situation turning very ugly very quickly. 

It's so sad. I would never do anything to put my boy in harm's way. I love him so much. And I know he really loves his Daddy.  She just can't see that what she's doing is hurting him as much as it is hurting me, and all over something that never happened and which was fabricated in her head by her own paranoia.

I await news from the lawyers.

I get it that she doesn't want to  "voluntarily" do this, but can the lawyers "compel" her to do so?

Also... .why not sign a request asking her to do so and have your lawyer present the same written request to your wife.  My guess is your wife will refuse to sign.

Then... with you being open and your wife being very selective, I think that will speak volumes about what is going on.

I'm glad you have a lawyer that seems to be pushing things now.

Hang in there...

FF

I am so sorry for the pain of separation from your son.

Have your lawyers talked about the next steps if your wife refuses to grant you access to your son?  Does she have any criminal or civil liability for taking him away from you?

WW

Sadly, disordered parents (and IMO mothers especially) are willing to throw everyone including the kids, under the bus, so to speak.  The years of marriage have no meaning anymore.  Partly it's the Black-OR-White All-Or-Nothing thinking, no grays exist anymore.  You're now blacklisted and so you must be Mr Evil Personified.  And DV or child abuse allegations are ammo ready at hand with agencies more than willing to jump into the fray.

My ex didn't know how to make allegations at first.  Her first one was that I let my son tip off his bike and hurt his elbow in the park.  But it got worse with each new allegation.  One hospital visit she did her usual "my son told me... ."  Well, he was examined and/or interviewed.  The complaint was anal itching.  I won't repeat what she was alleging.  However, the doctors came to the "empirical" conclusion it could be pinworms and gave her a prescription for medication.  (That was also the time I was thankful I had a son and not a daughter.)

If any allegations are made that involve your children, then children's services will investigate. My CPS chose school as the "neutral location".  Obviously if they did it in her home or presence then the kids could be influenced.

One approach my ex's lawyer took was to ask me if I was larger than my wife, as though size was the abuse factor.  (Remember, kids are smaller than parents, should they be afraid simply because they're smaller?)  Another trap is the lawyer asking you if you want your spouse back.  It could enable them to claim you're a controller and wanting the spouse back under your control.  Fortunately I answered, "No, not the way she is."  The point is that it's time to Let Go, after this level of conflict you can't risk getting back together.

I don't know whether this will help, but you could characterize any claims she makes as unsubstantiated 'sour grapes', her blaming you after the relationship failed and to make herself look better for later custody decisions.

I don't know if this might work in your case, but if you get a custody evaluation done, which I sure hope is being discussed by your lawyer, the evaluator may be able to talk to your couple's therapist.

This allows that information to get entered into the official record without the therapist having to testify or make a written declaration.

If you do get a custody evaluation with psych evals, it's important that you specify the MMPI-2, which is an objective forensic assessment that must be administered by a psychiatrist specifically trained to do those tests. There is another test specifically for personality disorders -- I wish I could remember the acronym.

My ex underwent a psych eval that we ordered, and it ended up being him talking to a psychiatrist who wrote a 12 page report with no diagnosis. The content was not at all flattering, but it was a lost opportunity that no diagnosis came to light. At the end of the report, it said, "a personality disorder cannot be ruled out without further testing" or something like that.

Few additional things


And don't be surprised if there is a recycle attempt.  Especially if it looks like she is going to "loose". 


I agree that asking for MMPIs is a great move.  If your lawyer can get it in there asking a metal health provider to "rule out" certain things will result in a lot of follow up testing and get a definitive yes or no answer for whatever you are asking for.

Most likely a good idea to ask them to "rule out" personality disorders in general.

Hang in there... please give us an update when you can.

FF

Over time I've come to notice that counselors and therapists desperately avoid court.  One obvious reason is that they don't want litigation, being sued or complaints made to the licensing board by the peeved former client.

However, what usually works is that if there is a Custody Evaluation, they usually do provide their indirect input in consultation with the evaluator so a better recommendation can be presented to the court.  Is there a way for that approach or one similar to be taken?

Just catching up, sorry you are going through this. She shouldn't restrict access and certainly not remove him from the school. Just because she threatens to do that, try not to get upset. Keep calm and inform your lawyer. You should have more parenting time right now.

Just thought I'd give an update.

Exactly 50 days ago, my wife took my son to her brother's house saying they were just going for the day.  Later that day she came back to tell me that we were now separated.  That was the last time I saw my son.

Every time I have asked my wife to let me see my son, she has either refused or not replied.  She has not taken him to his school in all this time (because it is also where I work as a teacher).  She has however, allowed me on a few occasions to talk to my son.

Meantime, I hired lawyers who submitted a petition to a judge (I'm in Mexico, so the court system works differently) asking for immediate access to my son and for him to return to school.  The judge agreed with our proposal and now we have to "serve" those papers to my wife via an actuary, after which she will have 2 weeks in which to appeal. 

The problem is that, in spite of having camped outside my wife's new home on two different days, we haven't been able to serve her the papers as she has been away visiting her sister in a nearby city.  Friends who live near her have said that her car is now back in town and so my lawyers and the actuary will try again this week.

I miss my son so much and think my wife's actions are really hurting him.  It's his 5th birthday in 10 days' time.  I sent her a message on Saturday evening asking to speak to him and she just ignored it.  I just wish the whole process would move more quickly.

Update:
It's been just over a month since my wife stopped replying to my attempts to communicate with her or my son. Nearly two and a half months since I saw him last.

My legal team's response to her action that she brought against me was read by a judge yesterday and he decided that my son should have immediate free access me as his father and that my wife should put him back in the school she hasn't been taking him to.

She has until Tuesday to appeal. 

So, although I'm not opening the champagne yet, I feel I am one step closer to being reunited with my son.

 

Good to hear from you, Dragon72. That's great news! Sorry it has taken so long, but I'm really glad for you that a judge saw no reason for your son not to be with your or not to be in his school. Maybe you can celebrate those steps forward   Keep us posted whenever works for you.

kells76

I'm so glad that you've gotten a good legal outcome. I hope you see your son soon!

Cat

Dragon72

So glad to hear this.  The momentum seems to be swinging.  I'll be praying for you and looking forward to an update after the appeal deadline.

Even if she appeals, the facts of the case seem straightforward... .

Remember... play the long game...

FF

My wife has decided to go nuclear.

She's submitted the psych evaluation she had our son go through when she left me. In the report my son (now 5) is quoted as saying that I put my tongue in his butt and that I got him to touch my penis.

Needless to say, nothing remotely like that happened. Ever.

So my wife has obviously been coaching him or planting false memories in his head.

I just don't understand it. Why would my son, who I would never do anything in a million years to harm and who got on so well and happily with me, say such awful things?

My lawyer says she will be able to discredit the psych evaluation.

The marriage counselor, who said to me in a 1 to 1 session that she thought that my wife was paranoid and delusional and used the word "psychosis", has been asked by the judge for an affidavit.

I'm very stressed.

I never knew in advance when my ex would cart son off to the children's hospital ER.  I had to periodically visit their records department to ask whether there was a recent visit.  I became a regular visitor there for a couple years, sometimes they had pained expression on their faces.  You're not the first dad here to be accused of sodomy in a high conflict case.


One very obvious problem is that she no doubt took son to and from the evaluator.  If CPS had handled it then they probably would have attempted to interview him in a neutral location away from both parents.  Another of my experiences... .  A couple months before our scheduled divorce Trial, she raged at the pediatrician's staff and got fired, according to their medical log.  What happened was she got a letter informing her, as the then temporary custodial parent during the divorce, that they were "withdrawing services" to our son.  Well, she had to make me look worse than her.  She must have been very determined, for the first time he parroted her claim to ER that I had become enraged at him and beat him on his shins.  (Later he told me he thought he got his bruises on the monkey bars when his mother took him to a park.)  Well, CPS got involved and they interviewed him without prior notice at his elementary school, he was in the first few months of kindergarten at the time.  The case was dropped.  I had asked for a written outcome and a month later I got a letter listing it as "unsubstantiated".  That's a typically weak determination, a stronger but more rare determination would have been "unfounded".

My ex claimed I was bruising our youngest son. She took him to the pediatrician. She then sent an email to me telling me that the pediatrician called me to warn me about my behavior. I never received a call. She made it up to feel better herself. Later we went through a custody eval and she brought it up. The evaluator said she was going to call the practice. My ex didn't have the number but I had it in my cellphone. The pediatrician said that she would not have called me to give a warning but would have followed the law which is that she would have had to report it to the authorities. Ex insisted that she was told by the pediatrician that she called me to give me a warning. Eventually the courts and the evaluators figured ex out and I was given more time with our boys. It took several years to get to that point but I was not completely excluded from seeing our boys. My ex left with our boys and I didn't see them for a week and had no idea where they were. I can't imagine a longer time period. Stay focused on what is best for your son. The legal system is slow and you have to persevere.

*mod*

this thread has reached the post limit and has been split and locked.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334546.0