BPDFamily.com

So, out of the blue, my partner ditched me after a year.  We were engaged to marry and it really hit me hard.

First off after thinking she loved me things went south.  She would get extremely mad over the slightest things.  She would throw things at me, spit on me, call me horrendous names (really, really horrible) and generally scream right in my face.  I never retaliated.  She blamed be for everything, I could not have a reasonable conversation about 'life problems' with her and everything was turned around to be my fault.  The rages I have never witnessed before in my life, it really is indescribable.  Bizarre thing is she can explode at me then three minutes later speak to someone else and be composed.

The problem is there were wonderful times, she was generous, loving and really was special to me, she had problems with her previous partners so I let a lot of the abuse slide.

Now she has walked out, told me it’s over and she does not want to get together again, she has said this before but this time it does feel like the last time.  Yes I do want to be with her.

She does still ring, she offers to help me with my driving (I am taking my test soon) and does still message me but I really am at a loss as what to do.  I really do love this woman but the bad times make me sick, hugely stressful although the good times are wonderful.

Is she playing games with me?  At the moment I am just not eating, I am smoking and living off Red Bulls.  I just have no appetite.  I am almost sleeping all my spare time and am just clinging on at work.  When I go to sleep I think about what happened and the first thought I have when I wake up is how sad the whole situation is.

Sorry if this is a ramble but when I talk to my friends they just do not understand.

I have come to the conclusion she is BPD from the research I have done, she does tick all the boxes.

Hi Coastered,

*welcome*

I am sorry for the turmoil you are experiencing in your relationship! I know a lot of us can relate to aspects of what you are describing here.

If I may, because I've been there, can I ask you to please eat something healthy?  Some real food. Please. You need your strength and energy drinks alone are not enough!   

It feels like a game. It is tempting to say that. But our partners have a mental disorder that makes them engage in some push/pull behavior. It is not easy to understand or relate to!

We're here. We don't want you to be alone in this! I know how hard it is when someone is wonderful then awful, and it repeats over and over again.

How recent is the split? Is this the first one? What reasons did she give?

wishing you the best, pearl.

Hi Coastered, let me join pearlsw in welcoming you here. You've definitely come to the right place.

I'm sorry to hear this relationship has left you in such a difficult place. Even if she doesn't have a BPD diagnosis, it's very fair to say from your description that she has BPD traits. Seconding pearlsw that the push/pull dynamic can be extremely challenging since it makes it almost impossible to gauge their feelings regarding the relationship.

Since you can't control what's happening on her end, what are some things you think you can do to get yourself back on a healthier track? Have you considered seeing a counselor or joining an activity of some kind to take your mind off things?

Sending you strength,
RolandOfEld

Thanks everyone.  It is good to feel welcome here.

We have split up many times, usually she throws the ring at me and then she eventually calms down.  We broke up around two weeks ago over the slightest thing, she just flipped.  I was essentially just telling her that we both need to be calm when we are in the car if I am learning.  With that she opened the car door and left, screaming at me again.

Reasons for the split?

She didn't love me, I am controlling, I am jealous, she did not want to be a family with me, I depress her.  She said I would find someone else in a week and with that she was gone.

Last night we went to the cinema together and had a meal but I still feel a distance with her although it is a lot more amicable now.  I do not know if I should ask her if we can try again or take it very very slow.  I love this woman.

Hi Coastered,

Thanks for the update.

I think its very important to mention that while us as "nons" (people without BPD) tend to act and make decisions based on a foundation of understanding and rationality, people with BPD generally act on the emotion they feel in the moment. For example, for you, the decision to break off a relationship would probably be the result of a lot of time and thought, right? Someone with BPD, meanwhile, might get angry you looked at them a certain way and suddenly break up with you instantly after loving you a moment before.

As per my earlier suggestion, seeing a counselor to help you better understand your own emotions as well as her emotional patterns might make you better equipped to negotiate this complex relationship.

At the same time, your own mental, physical, and emotional health is really essential to coping with a BPD relationship, regardless if its a romantic relationship, familial, or just a friendship. Otherwise, you will just be dragged along on their highs and lows.

Did you come across the book Stop Walking on Eggshells (https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901) during your research?

~ROE

Thanks

I think I am codependent so work needs to be done there, I did not have a great childhood.  Do not get me wrong, I was not abused but both my mum and dad did not really know how to love.  It is possible that I am trying to see some level of validation in my partners and that is why I seem to choose the wrong type.  I have tried to work on myself but the counselling in the UK is poor at best.

I was / am codependent as well. Similar home situation, low validation, high rage (possibly BPD) mother. Don't be hard on yourself about it. Counseling helped a lot. UK should also have some codependents anonymous support groups.

~ROE

CODA is a national organisation in the UK. I was surprised at how many groups there were and so many close to my home.

Here's the website

www.coda-uk.org/

UPDATE

Well, we decided to start dating again and things were going very well indeed.  She texted me and told me she loved me and we made love a few times.  She was happy and told me that.

Then we were due to go to the Cinema with her son Sunday morning, this was agreed on Saturday for Sunday.  On Sunday her Son decided he did not want to go to the Cinema and so she invited me around later in the day.  I had to get my house in order at the time so I said that I could not come around tonight.  She went ballistic.  She abused me on a mobile phone message and rang me up again straight after and called me an ungrateful c***.  Now she is saying the past week has been horrible for her in direct contradiction to what she told me herself.

I am exhausted, I am in pain, I do not know what to do anymore.  I feel dead.

She is behaving like a completely different person, my head is a mess

Just to add, she thinks i am am now engulfing her.  I hardly ever text unless she does, I do not ring much.  She accuses me of things that are just not real.  We see each other at most once a week.

I try to play it her way but she keeps moving the goalposts.  I am exhausted!  Do I just go no contact (she does it to me).

To describe I have to be perfect 100% of the time with no faults but she does not set the same standards for herself.  EVERYTHING is my fault... .  She will do things for me that I do not ask and then hold that against me.  If anyone is feeling engulfed, its me.  I do not know which way to turn

It is amazing that putting this down here helps in a way.  Nobody I talk to understands, they say just leave... .

Hi Coastered, thank you for checking back in with us.

I'm so sorry to hear that things took this turn after such a good spell. The problem in a BPD relationship is it's very hard to track progress since things can be fine for a long time and then all of a sudden they are not. This kind of tornado spin definitely leaves us feeling like a total mess.

It reminds me of all the years I spent thinking, "wow, things seem great. I think the problems we had are finally over." The upside to this mindset is that for a week or even a few weeks, I got to feel like I was in a normal relationship. The downside is that when the sudden turn came, I was utterly unprepared and ended up feeling like you do now.

The reality of being in a relationship with someone with BPD is that they are not well and something will trigger them eventually. In this case it was your inability to come by her place. My guess is that if it had not been that, it would have been looking at her the wrong way, or being a few minutes late. You did nothing wrong, but her illness was waiting for something to justify losing it.

This is not an easy reality to face, and an even harder one to choose.  

I would strongly suggest tending to your own pain before trying to resolve things with her. No contact might be better until you are feeling more comfortable.

What can you do to get yourself back into a better place? Listen to music? Talk to a friend or family member?

Sending you strength,
~ROE

Thanks for your reply.  It means a lot to me that people know how I feel and what I am going through.

The thing is she is making me lose it, she turns everything around to be my fault.  She will distort reality and forget how good she felt only a few days ago.  She will say she loves me and is happy and the next day she cant "do this anymore?"

She will lie, alter facts, invent excuses that has me pulling my hair out.

At the moment I am depressed with it all and sleeping seems to be the only rest bite.

Hey Coastered, great to hear from you again. Let me start by endorsing what RofE said about BPD relationships, there's a constant push pull which is primarily based on THEIR fluctuating feelings. On the surface of things we look at the person and think, they look like a person, smell like a person and feel like a person, they must process information in the same way that I do... .sadly not. There will be periods where your cognition and her cognition will marry up and things will appear normal, however she's processing stimuli based on her emotions, you are processing it based on rational thought and your feelings combined. You probably know pretty quickly whether or not what you think is somewhat irrational and feelings based... .you double check yourself and adjust yourself to the facts. A pwBPD tends not to do the second part of the process and instead is dominated by their feelings and adjust the facts and their "rational thought" to align with their feelings.

I challenge you to take the things you wrote in your post earlier today and spin them around such that what she is telling you about how you are... .actually is how she is. It's called projection. She feels engulfed because she got too deep and too loved up too quickly, she is the one who feels she is contacting you too often and is setting herself up for disappointment. These are her feelings and actions she is unable to take responsibility for herself (as that would mean she is responsible for herself and the outcomes, and ultimately pain of disappointment) so, she projects these feelings onto you. It sounds a bit arrogant and probably feels it, but listen to what she is telling you about you, and hear that she is feeling all of those things about herself. She is scared of herself.

I think you need to step back and consider whether or not you want to deploy the investment you need to make to stay in this dynamic. You have educated yourself enough to know what kind of experience you're in for and please do not delude yourself to believe that you can somehow manage her so that it becomes all fine and 'normal'. Only she can get herself to that point with a lot of hard work in psychotherapy.

Enabler

hey coastered IVe been in this situation for 2 months now and i know exactly what you mean re sleeping and not eating... .it totally sucks... .

Im English but living in Turkey atm and I would do anything to be able to see a counsellor but its just not possible here, I think if you can find a group or councellor defintetly go try it out.  Friends and family just dont understand what were saying. All I get told is to leave him and why are you still thinking about him he left you 2 months ago... .To the point now that im not talking to any of my friends here... .dont end up like me... .

Try and maybe take up a new hobby or something... .again so much easier to do back home and to do something that is for you and will make you feel better about yourself and as Pearl says make sure that you eat as much as you really dont want to, it willl make you feel better in the long run!

Thanks for this, good to know I am not alone.  I am with you on the friends aspect.  I think I am now annoying them as they just tell me to forget about her but I find it all so difficult to do.  I have tried to find help but really it is not easy to do unless you go private.  The NHS is such a mess.  I find this group helps a lot and everyone knows what it is like.

I am going to try no or low contact.  See how that helps?

Again thanks

coastered yep I truly feel like im just annoying all my friends and family as well... .thats why this page is such a godsend!

Yeah I get what you mean about the NHS but maybe there are some help groups nearby?

In my experience when I go low/NC i get a better response so you could try it... .

Most people don't believe in unicorns... .so trying to convince them that unicorns exist makes you appear like the a crazy person. Most people just cannot comprehend that other people process information in a completely different way. Often the behaviours are so obscure yet only behind closed doors.

One has to accept how this is. Some day people may find themselves in a position where they too believe in unicorns and you can have a frank open and honest discussion with them. I have spoken to people who have expressed concern over their partners behaviour, we've run through the behaviours, me pre-empting the list "do they do this?"... ."Yes"... .etc etc. However, when you say the words Borderline Personality Disorder it's instantly dismissed. Some people just aren't in that place even when a living breathing example is right in front of them and causing an extreme amount of chaos in their lives. These same people will continue to try and fight the fires in exactly the same old ways, pouring fuel on the proverbial fires day in day out... .

There is a huge network of private Therapists if you can afford one. I pay £55 an hour and now see mine every 3 weeks. The exhilaration I feel coming out of an hours T session is awesome. We talk through my W's behaviours, we talk through my feelings about it and come up with game plans, parenting skills and ways to manage my own reactions.

Peace be with you fellow Unicorn believers

Thank you so much for posting Enabler.  You give me hope.

I will keep you all updated with the next instalment and I really do believe there will be... .

Another blow out that I tried my best to avoid.  To cut a long story short she texted me today asking if I managed to get a taxi to take me to work and my child to school.  I said that I had but it was a little earlier than expected due to demand.  She asked me to cancel it and then she would take us.  I told her that we were both fine with the times and that we were ok.  She told me it was not a problem so I cancelled the taxi.  

The moment I did she flew into a rage over text saying that I expect her to help and demand it, telling me that she is sick and tired of bending over backwards for me.   That I had emotionally blackmailed her to force her to give us a lift.  (I thought I was answering her questions).  Sadly I had already cancelled the taxi, because at that moment she seemed ok, but I told her that I was sorry she felt that way and we would make our own way to school and work as I only wanted people to be happy, and not to cause any problems.

She then told me she had no intention of picking me and my daughter up now, that my daughter is the most miserable child she has met.  That I am a fu**ing adult and should not rely on her.   (I did not ask her, she offered).  

I have read the texts and my mind is blown, she has created her own reality.  I was dammed if I took her help and dammed if I didnt from the outset,  I generally believe that if she is upset when she wakes up she HAS to take it out on someone, looks like I am that person.

I feel I am setup to fail.

Sorry I just need to write this down... .

My next move?  Is it to just not call or text or what?  I have no idea what mood she will be in right now.  Do I wait for her to text?

Hi Coastered,

I am sorry you had a bad time this morning. It may be too fresh to step into this with a line by line examination, I hope you don't mind, but I think there is a communication issue to look at carefully when you feel ready. I apologize if this is too soon for you!

Look at what you are saying to her after she offered to help you: "I am fine. We're okay."

What she is probably hearing: They don't need me. I don't matter.

What you say: I told her that I was sorry she felt that way and we would make our own way to school and work as I only wanted people to be happy, and not to cause any problems. (This sounds a bit passive aggressive.)

What she is probably hearing: That she is not needed and is a problem and that you think she is unhappy (so you are bringing up a relationship issue/telling her how she feels).

I know, I know, it is not that you said any of this in so many words, but I would bet that is what she heard. That set her emotions off I'm guessing.

So, if you can boil this all back down going forward, maybe what she is really saying, not very well, but at the root is she wants to be needed and loved and to be able to help you. She may have felt like her help was being rejected. Keep in mind, she can't regulate her emotions well. She is living in a world of emotions, not reason so much.

So, do you call her? I'd wait awhile.

You or her first? I think that would depend on how ugly it was and if you want to communicate with her. Did she call you names, sabotage you? Were you unable to get a ride in time?

Is there some reason for her heightened emotions today, some extra stress?

You might go back and look at these tools to get ready for the next conversation when it happens:

Validation (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0)
SET (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0)

Just my two cents!

Again, sorry you had an upsetting start to the day!  

wishing you the best, pearl.

Pearl, I appreciate every different angle to look at things!  Thank you very, very much!

She does have stress at work, but I think she is unable to take things out on others so chooses me at times.  I was late for work yes, around two hours.

Hi Coastered,

Oh thanks back atcha! To be sure I am not trying to excuse this. It caused you serious harm. I would be very upset if someone made me late for work! I hate to be late and that would be a very serious relationship offense in my book. I would definitely draw a line in the sand on that point.

Yes, I think you've hit on one of the sad, major downsides of relationships! Argh! Oftentimes we get the worst of our partners. It baffles my mind how love can sometimes turn into this. How we go from these moments of bliss to being mistreated at times. Sigh.

I will contemplate this a bit and see if I can work with you here peer to peer on an approach. So you do not live together, right? You don't have to talk with her or see her today if you do not want to? Give it time, but never too much. The longer you let things go with someone you don't see or talk to so much the worse it can build up and the silence can lead to a lot of confusion, misconceptions, and pain I'm afraid!

What would you want to say or do next?

take care, pearl.

It's very very true that sometimes it feels like pwBPD create their own weather. This is kind of a sick version of the Karpman triangle, normally in conflict you're aware of the dance and shifts around the triangle, but sometimes people's thought process is so mashed up the moves are almost without explanation... .or as pearl has done the reasoning is so irrational it's tough to come to that conclusion imediately, there are no natural progressions around the triangle... .just jerky shifts as your pwBPD changes gear to move you into her desired corner.

In her mind she rescued you (you and D were the victims... .when actually you were neutral), maybe she felt peculiar being in the rescue position so had to correct herself to be in her natural position of victim so slotted you to perpetrator and herself back to victim. It's totally crazymaking and almost impossible to stay central with double blinds left right and center. As you say, the whole thing is delusional and not even related directly to what you did or didn't ask/say. This is the point you take your ears elsewhere, carry on as planned (if possible) and move on. Maybe find another time to address the situation, arguing at the time is likely to be fuel on the fire.

Enabler

Duplicate - sorry

Thanks.  You have both given me food for thought.  A lot of the time I just read her texts or listen to her and say in my mind "No, I am not going to react - I know this is crazy but I am not going to engage"  I should have done this better in this instance.

Just to answer the questions I was asked, I do not live with her although she does stay around a few days a week and I do not have to see her if I do not want to.  

What do I want to happen next?  Just for her to calm down.

I do get the impression she does things for me to use them against me later.  She has done this many times.

Thanks everyone!  I really appreciate the feedback.

Hi again Coastered,

I was just thinking of your situation a bit... .

I think one thing that could be important at this point is to depersonalize a bit. What is the pattern? Let’s take all blame out of this and essentially ask what happened? Not who is wrong and right, just identify what is the pattern and we can try to work towards preferable outcomes. If we can see the pattern, maybe we can propose a new pattern. Ya know?

I think a lot of relationships go this route, and this doesn’t get you anywhere: Person A wrongs person B. Person A doesn’t recognize it or want to apologize. Person B is hurt and wants an apology. Verbal tug of war ensues. Someone gives in. No one is really happy. End. Repeat.

But if we can take the blame out of it, and just look at the pattern maybe we can find a new way that does not bury the problems, and can possibly get you to a more emotionally safe place and help reconnect you as a couple. This is extra challenging with emotional sensitivity thrown in I think.

I’m just trying to imagine your next conversation. It makes me nervous too!  But here’s a try at it:

I might say, “We didn’t communicate well this morning.” (That is true. And it is shared.) [If I was not super mad I would also throw in a funny face to be honest! Wink one eye! But that is just silly me trying to start up an awkward but necessary ice breaker... .]
Then I might say, “I hear that you were frustrated. I can see how the situation could be frustrating.” (Again, you aren’t giving away anything here. That was her emotion. She was frustrated to some degree.)
Then I might say, “Things broke down pretty badly between us and that feels lousy for both of us.” (Bringing your hurt emotions together)
Then I might say, “I ended up being late for work and that caused me some trouble. I have to be sure to avoid that going forward.” [I might add in an "I felt" statement here if I saw an opening, like "I felt pretty mad about that."]
Then I might say, [but you decide what works for you] “On the days you sleep over it works well to give us rides, but on the others days I will go ahead and take care of it. We can share that. I really appreciate your help with this. I know you mean well and want to help. I appreciate the offer.” 
I’d also throw in some “I love you’s.”

Then, I’d do an even bigger repair to try to get things back in the plus column. I’d say, “Let’s try to do something positive to get us back on a good track. How about we all [your choice] together tomorrow night?” You need a lot of positive to counteract the negative balance or misery will ensue.

She may try to argue and demand an apology. “You didn’t do X! You shouldn’t have done Y! You are an %$&#! You don’t have to JADE.

What I would not do is enter this thinking you can correct or change her behavior, get an apology, get her to see it your way, or agree with you, etc. If any of that happens, great, but I would not make that the goal. In a better world we’d all have understanding, be listened, to and get free ice cream. ;) 

You had to get to work and school. She wanted to help. Communication broke down. It didn’t work today. This does not mean it could never work.

Again, I’m just a regular person not a psychologist or communication specialist. I’m probably screwing this up on some communications technicalities that I am blind to in this moment. That’s life.

But I do think one of the biggest things you can do is remove blaming and labeling. Although this may have happened before I would not bring up every single time it ever happened. If you can get through this one time that is enough for now. You can’t fix all the past times at this point. But if you work well on this one you may set yourself for more and more improved communication going forward.

Communication mistakes will happen no matter how many books you read or how hard you practice. It’s a lifelong process and you just have to make a commitment to doing your best day after day no matter what people throw at ya, ya know? That is literally all you can do!  Life throws ya a lot of curveballs! Keep believing in yourself. Study. Try. Take breaks. Reassess. Try again. Take more breaks.

One piece of advice. Slow down. Always. Listen. Listen to the emotions. Hers and yours. Toss the garbage comments. If they get to be too much politely excuse yourself from the conversation and offer to come back later and talk more.

Adjust problem solving for the person you are with - one approach to all people won’t work in my experience. I had one boyfriend and we would stay up all night talking and solving our problems. It was great!   We never went to sleep mad, ever! I had another one who wanted problems solved “short and sweet” that was great too, very efficient! I learned with another partner, never, ever jump a guy with a problem the minute he's just gotten home from work! Oops! ;) There are a lot more fun ways to greet someone. ;)

So, watch the patterns. Do what you can to avoid extra stress on the relationship and it will give you more chances to try to for more peaceful times together. But don't just walk on eggshells either. You have got to say what you think, but how you say it could make a big difference.

take care, pearl.

Peal,

Many, many thanks for taking the time to think and write all that out.  It has genuinely touched me that someone has taken so much time out of their day to do all of that for me.  It is very rare these days and I genuinely thank you from the bottom of my heart.  What you do should be commended.  Thank you as well Enabler, you also see a side of an issue that I have not thought about.  Brilliant site, brilliant community!

I have taken a good long look at what you both posted and I think it is valuable information.  I have tried not to argue but invariably it does on occasion happen.  What I do struggle with (as an INFJ) is the double standards she has a habit of displaying.  It is the most irritating thing in the world to me

She has been violent in the past, she has spat on me, called me names, screamed and acted ways I never thought possible (I know what a rage is now!).  This has not happened so much in the last month or two as I have changed how I react (less JADING) but she still splits then acts like nothing has happened.  Case in point she actually called ME later in the day yesterday and we spoke on the phone, her tone was like nothing had happened... .

To me I was hurt but to her she had blacked it out, so it was not an issue for her.  I have trouble at times dealing with that but I am working on it.

Again, thanks for everything you do - and all the others here.

Hi Coastered,

Oh thanks! I've been in such a good mood lately that I was afraid when I wrote this I might be off center a bit and sound a bit kooky!  hahahaha. Downplaying things somehow! These situations are indeed hard and some days are easier than others to come up with responses that work and don't feel exhausting and hopeless at times. Thank you for your patience and kindness towards me!

I've experienced violence, being spit on (!), name called, the works! My SO felt a lot of shame though which not all people express. He expressed shame in general, but I think having some was better than having none as it did work as some motivation to change!

Oh yes, that "nothing has happened" thing! Well, that is why is it is helpful to come here and get some validation for the reality of the things you deal with from people who have been there!    I think there is actually, for some people with these issues, a different way this gets remembered or not in their brains! My SO had very little recall of a lot of his life really, although in other areas his brain was... .like Einstein or Tesla!  Consider that because the emotions are so overwhelming for them, events don't get stored in their memory in the same ways yours are.

Keep working the tools. Remember a lot of this is about making adjustments to yourself. Working on "reading" your own irritations and letting them go can make a big difference.

wishing you happiness, pearl.

Hi Coastered, so glad you are finding the support you need here!

I will share a little personal experience on the "like nothing happened" issue.

I remember I reached a point where it occurred to me that my wife and I were not living in the same reality.

In my reality, cutting my clothes to shreds and suddenly slapping me in the face fell far into the "NOT OK" spectrum.

In hers, it seemed like these were about as big a deal as a small argument, or they didn't seem to have happened at all.  

Part of the probably came from the fact that I did nothing about these behaviors for years, so in our relationship is had become as normalized as arguing about who should take out the garbage.

Another things is that I believe mental illnesses such as BPD have a means of taking care of themselves, such as selective forgetting or memory alteration.  

When I reported the above behaviors to the police, I think it brought a little more of the commonly accepted reality, that these were extreme and unacceptable behaviors, into hers and probably had a big effect on the action she's taken recently, such as getting on medication and working on non black and white thinking.

Can you explain a bit about what you did or didn't do in response the hitting and spitting, or remind us if you already have? Did you ever bring them up again with her?

~ROE

Well it happened again.  She wanted to go to the petrol station and asked if I wanted to go with her.  I did and we returned.  I got out of the car and because I didnt say "thankyou" she blew up again and left.  She rang me up and she gave me more abuse over the phone telling me all the things she has ever done for me, that she did not love me and the trip we had earlier in the day, in which at the time she said she enjoyed 'and loved me' was actually not meant and she was lying because 'thats what I wanted to hear'.

If I am not 100% "on the ball" if I do not say the right things, 100% of the time and do the correct actions 100% of the time I will fail, well I am human and I fail occasionally then, when I do, I get the violent outbursts and verbal abuse.  I have, on her request, seen a doctor, been put on medication and done everything I can.  I look back and think what has she done, the answer is sadly nothing.  I guess because she believes I am the problem and that is what she had me believe.

Fast forward to today and I am 99% I am unable to take this anymore.  If she loved me she would not put me through this.  She has only two states of mind, the hero or the victim and I am out of strength.  This is now going on every Friday/Saturday as regular as clockwork and it always falls on me to repair the damage that she causes.  Yes I hate being alone, yes I love her but I cannot be responsible for her behaviour and be an apologist.  Either that or she acts like everything was fine and the last outburst did not even happen.

To answer a question, maybe if I did stand up to the spitting or the hitting or verbal abuse then maybe the powerplay would not be so far in her court, this unacceptable behaviour has become acceptable because I DID NOTHING ABOUT IT.   Her ex, who decided when she can see her kids and who owes her money gets none of this.  I am sick and tired of being a whipping boy and so utterly soul destroyed right now.  Does her ex not get the abuse because she knows he would not stand for it?  Does she hold a secret desire to be back with him?  These are the things swimming around my head.

I have never met an individual who keeps score of the things they 'do', to use against me later.  Things I never even asked for are used later to put an axe under my head.  Its used to say how ungrateful I am, how wonderful she is and how bad I am.

Sorry to ramble again, I am just lost right now.  Where is the woman I met a year ago, I see nothing in her today.

Hi Coastered,

I'd like to echo something Roland of Eid said about how some consequences/reality invading her world can sometimes make a difference.

Also, would you say you are doing a lot of JADE-ing?

I've heard this before. Had "I love you's" taken back, told they weren't meant. Sigh. Just remember a lot of what someone with this issues says is a way of trying to hurt you so you feel the pain they are in, or to relieve their pain. It is horrible to hear, but is not something to believe.

Are you trying any of the tools here yet? It is not always easy. It can be very discouraging at times, but nevertheless worth a try. Have you tried much validation?

warmly, pearl.

I am indeed using the tools here yes.  She flips and then just speaks (rather shouts) over me so I remain silent.  I listen and the phone gets put down.  She has her say and I do not get to say much at all.

I do not JADE as I know it gets me nowhere, I try and understand but I feel every move I make, every word I say is an excuse to find fault in me.  I think of things I want to say and end up not bothering.  This time I was the bad guy for what I did not say.

I have now not spoken to her since Saturday I am on the verge of giving up totally.

I have tried validating, I say how beautiful she is every day, how strong she is, how kind she is.  I excuse her outbursts and try to tell her I understand why she is angry... . Then she gets angry again a week later and it all starts again.

She does things 'for me' to use against me at another point in time.  So much so she now does things without me even asking and then holds it against me.  It seems I am in an impossible situation.

Last time (at around this time) I texted her to say I was on lunch and she rang like nothing had happened, this time I am seriously thinking about just not bothering.

Hi Coastered,

Just to follow up, validation may have a larger scope to it than you are using.  To be more precise, isn’t just saying nice things to her, though that can create a nice atmosphere I think, but it is actually a way of making her feel listened to.  It does not require you to agree with everything she is saying, as she is likely saying a lot of hurtful things, but it does help you to (possibly) keep the situation from getting too far off track. You will have likely seen others here on the boards talking about partial validation. This is when you have to sort past the horrible stuff you are hearing and listen for the feelings. She may be expressing sadness, frustration, etc. Sometimes no amount of validation will be enough and it would be better for you to exit the conversation, but before that perhaps some amount could let the feelings be “heard.”

I made this mistake often in the past because I simply could not relate to such extreme emotions. Well, I should explain first, I took some personality tests for a job once, we all did, and I found I am both reasonable and emotional - nearly equally balanced exactly between the two - not an extreme in either direction. That sounded spiffy to me, but it wasn't great though in practice sometimes! So while I cared how he felt, I also often had “a shake it off” “why would you let that bother you?” kind of attitude rather than being able to listen to extreme (for me) emotional reactions. Now I get it! His emotions were very different and I had to stop judging/dismissing them (being invalidating!) and just listen to them as impartially as I could and find a better way to be supportive than what I was trying to do because what I was doing was not working - at all.

One of my best friends/colleagues took the test too and while she was not BPD her extreme (to me) reactions suddenly made sense to me when I saw her score from  the test mapped on the board (we all saw each others mapping)! This helped me a lot with seeing just how different emotions can be from person to person and be more understanding/accepting of the range of emotional expression that exists. But it is also okay to want to be safe from it! For sure! It is never worth compromising your safety over.

Anyway, it felt frustrating and impossible to be with him and that drove me nuts because I didn't want to believe we somehow could not get along - I get along with everybody, or I want to try at least!  Argh! I wanted him desperately to follow basic Fair Fighting Rules, but all reason, control, decency, limits would go right out the window when he was angry. In his case medication was the only thing that gave him anything near balance and any chance to communicate.

I hear your frustration. It can seem impossibly difficult at times, like one slip up messes up all or it won't work. It might work, it might not, it up to us to find/decide where our limits lie, decide how much to invest in any given relationship.

BPD is a spectrum disorder and you will see more and less extreme cases. I was "lucky" in a sense, I never had to deal with extreme nitpicking as much as many here do. A bit, but not daily, and in time it eased up a lot as he got used to my personality, shed more and more of his past relationship bad habits/misconceptions, and picked up better behavior I modeled for him. He typically either adored me or was really mad - very black and white in his thinking, but still, this was very hard to navigate and confusing as could be!

It is not easy to have a partner with mental health issues, we can often pushed to our human limits. If you need breaks take them!

warmly, pearl.

Hi Coastered, joining in pearlsw in saying that I hear your frustration, loud and clear. I know what its like to be at the tipping point of exhaustion / total burnout in the relationship.

In these kinds of situations I generally forgo attempts at communication and resolving issues to self care. I do what I need to feel better and regain strength before I initiate the next engagement.

What can you do right now to take care of yourself?

Sending you strength,
~ROE

Perfect comment ROE, , that’s what I’m doing.

Yes that does seem to work, disengage and do things I like doing.

I can eat properly, do the stuff I enjoy and just ignore the frustrations.  I do like to keep a log here as well, it helps... .a lot.

And so does everyone who has posted and helped me!  People understand on this forum, they know its more than 'get over it' you so often get with friends.

Hi Coastered, glad to hear you are able to practice some self care.

Any updates since your last post?

~ROE

Sadly I failed my driving test today, I was heartbroken.  Sad thing was I was more sad for her than me.  I am conditioned that way I guess.

What really stuck the knife in was that she was just bothered about how difficult it was with me not driving, how its all down to her.  How the relationship is a struggle that I do not drive.  How she cannot go on like this.

The stress during the test is unparalleled because of this.

She was more bothered about how SHE felt rather than how I did.  I did not JADE, I just apologised for letting her down and how sorry I was.

But that hurt.  It hurt big.

She dropped the 'kisses' from her texts (her passive aggressive way of telling me I am in the dog house).  All I wanted was encouragement and love, not to feel like a failure.

She made me feel like a failure.  She tells me there is no fun or pleasure in this relationship as it all falls down to her to teach me to drive.  She offers and then uses it against me.

I really do feel I need to put my foot down.  If there is no fun for her then really she should find someone who gives her fun.  She just forgets all the times she does enjoy herself and all the things I do for her.  I do believe if she thinks she can do better than me or find a better love she should start looking.

I have not sent this yet, but its how I feel...   This is the email I am hovering over sending... .



I have read your last few emails with a heavy heart.  I failed my test and all I see from you is how it makes you feel and that is not right.  I tried my best but I have patently let you down and failed you.  You do not have fun with me, you tell me all the time – I am simply not good enough for you. You remind me all the time about how much I demand of you and how I do not ever seem to appreciate it or realise it to such an extent I fear you doing anything supportive.  I have thanked you, loved you and did everything I could possibly do in my heart to make you feel special but it is not enough and never will it be enough.

I know you do not feel happy with me and you deserve to feel happy – I am sorry I let you down.

Hi Coastered, I'm really sorry about the test. I have some personal sharing here.

I am... .not the best driver. I failed my drivers test in the US... .7 times. Failed it in my wife's country once about two minutes after it started. My driving has always been a sore point my wife and one she has used to hurt me with at every opportunity. When I used to scooter the two of us around here, she would sometimes literally hit me if I didn't make a turn the way she liked. Like you, I'm terrified to drive her anywhere now.

This pressure not to fail has applied in many other areas of our marriage.

Coastered, in a normal relationship, our partners would sit down with us  and have a conversation about what's going on and offer their support to help us. But we  are not in a normal relationship.

So the sad but practical truth I think we have to do it ourselves, or seek out other resources.

A few thoughts on your email:

I don't think you have anything to apologize for, and I wouldn't apologize. You failed, that's true, but there is a reason! It is not because there is something essentially wrong with you. You are not doing anything in malice or out of laziness or irresponsibility. A true partner would work with you to find the root cause and support you to overcome it. 

If I were writing this email (I have have written countless emails in exactly the same tone), I would acknowledge the failure and outline what steps you plan to take to overcome it (e.g. getting a private driving instructor, working with counselor to overcome issues as to why you struggle, etc). That way you show responsibility for it without painting yourself as a failure.

Personally, I think my driving issues come from a combination of my poor focus and family members (primarily her) criticizing me instead of supporting me to get to the bottom of the problem.

 What do you think about the above?

~ROE

 

I think you are absolutely right and I have never had such support and understanding from people here that just understand.  I have literally been dripping with sweat driving with her as if I made a mistake she would scream in my face calling me foul names.

I haven't spoken to her since she left the house (again) after I failed.  She was though saying she was suicidal again.  She has mentioned this a few times before but not for a while now.

Personally and I know it makes me look horrible but I've almost had enough, the tank is empty... .

Hey Coastered, let's have a quick perception check (I give these to myself regularly):

You are a failure because you have difficulty passing a test involving an extremely complex and dangerous machine, yet she is suicidal because her partner (not her) didn't pass a driving exam, and you have the emotional strength to empathize with her feelings on this situation?

Yes she has a license, but who is in the lead here for maturity and overall self possession?

I'm sorry to hear she left again, but maybe some time to yourself is what you need right now? What can you do during this time to refill your tank?

~ROE

Soo nicely put there RoE. Well said.

She has not learnt to deal with her emotions, a skill a lot of 6 year olds manage (said with as much empathy as I can muster).

When's your next driving test? You can do this buddy. Are you able to get someone else to sit in the car whilst you learn? I'm guessing you're at the stage where you just need to get comfortable driving, not so much 'learn'. Do this for yourself not for her.

Enabler

Thanks to you both.  You both speak a lot of sense.  My new test is in November, I have no intention of telling her any dates so, if I fail again, I do not have to put up with a tirade of abuse.  I failed the test because I was obviously not ready but the mere fact I dreaded telling her goes a long way into how the situation makes me feel.

Obviously when I told her my fears were validated.  She was fine before the test and then when she knew the result I got the usual "Cant do this anymore"  "There's no fun in this relationship" and "I only said I was happy to appease you".  She told me she was suicidal and wanted to go home, I left her to it and have not contacted her since although she has been 'active' online.  She has told me I make her suicidal countless times.  Does not matter how others treat her, I am a ass - no matter what I do or say when she is 'on one'.

It's always up to me to apologise, beg, plead and explain away her anger, temper, massive mood swings and utter contempt for me.  If I do so it'll be fine again like nothing happened but then explode again if I put a foot wrong.  Yes, walking on eggshells is indeed the perfect analogy although she loves to say that about me, telling me that I am Borderline or a narcissist.

The tank is empty yes and the only way at the moment I know how to fill that tank is to have her nowhere near me.  I am sick and tired being the reason she uses to be in a foul mood.  She does not act like this with anyone else and it hurts so much.  Yes I love her but what do I love?  The person I met a year ago is gone like she never existed.  The pain is indescribable, the sad thing is she has not got a clue or can comprehend HOW I FEEL.  Gosh, I know EXACTLY how she feels, she blames me for it daily.

What is the longest you have been without contacting her? Can you remember you usual emotional pattern i.e. how you feel for the first few days, then you start to miss her, then you wonder what she's doing? I guess checking Whatsapp for signs she's active, does that say anything to you?

Yes, I did because of the latest threat she made, I guess I do not know if I did it because I wanted to know she is safe or to see if she was chatting away to someone else, when she should have been there chatting away to me, her partner, about what happened that day.  Talking things over, consoling ourselves.

Before she came back, after my failed test, I had made her a coffee, had something ready for her to eat and offered us to take a walk, do something fun but she wanted to go, could not be prepared to be with me or speak with me and she told me that in so many words.

So That is a question I cant answer although I have now deleted all social media from my phone, her number and any apps like that.

Longest?  Hard to say, I hate arguments so I would normally back down in 2 days... .

Emotional pattern?  I try and sleep and wake up having cold sweats or feelings of impending doom, a feeling of great loss like something is missing.  I do not mean to sound hyperbolic but thats how I feel a few moments after waking up.

Updste:  She told me last night it's over.  She said it's because she can't wait anymore to pass my test.  She then said she's blocked me everywhere.

So that's that.

Oh and apparently I'm a malignant narcassist.

I was just about to call you that. It was the way you were so concerned about her when you’d just failed your driving test and were really disappointed... .

What do you hope for now?

Fancy continuing your learning journey? Having a good poke around in your head, learning some pretty cool communication skills and learning about your experience will help you power up for the future, regardless of what happens.

Sorry.  Little confused here.  You were about to call me a mililignant narcassist?

I was being massively sarcastic, from what you have written I see very little evidence of narcissism. Maybe she sees something I don’t and I only have the evidence of your narrative to go by. Do you think you’re narcissistic?

Sorry, my mind was not in the best place last night and I see what you mean.  No I'm about as far removed to a narcassist as you could get.  I think I'm codependent and this played a huge role in why I stayed.  I love this woman but she's severely damaged and I don't blame her for it as she has had horrendous relationships in the past.  Or at least that's what she says from what I saw later I now question the stories she told me about previous partners, I say that because now I'm seen as one of the ex partner abusers.

As I mentioned she dumped me because I failed my driving test and she refused to wait the time until my next test.  She came and picked up her stuff and told me she didn't love me, it was over and she only got engaged with me to shut me up.  In a moment of desperation after the 10th discard I reactivated an online dating site so I could find some cheap self worth.  I felt unloveable, devastated and just could not go through the whole discard cycle again.

Well she found out and posted publicly on Facebook that I was a cheat and that's the reason we broke up.  Not the truth about me failing the driving test.  She, of course didn't mention the abuse, the hitting, the spitting, the horrendous anger and vulgar names she called me.  She portrayed herself as a victim.  I did not cheat on her, never did.  She dumped me and I had enough.  Yes a dating app wasn't a great move but I wanted to feel loveable as mentioned but also, dam I was single.

I just do not know where the woman I loved and still do went.  This all seems like crazy making to me.  She has now created a fiction that has me as the abuser and it just invalidates what I went through.  The truth has now been turned into her events and she did it publicly.

I'm so desperately lost right now.  Confused, hurt and angry.  It seems like emotional reasoning amplified.

The woman you love has many facets, you love part of her but she comes (came) as a whole person, the adorable kind person and the angry violent person. As much as we'd like to we can't split them into 2 people. People often describe feeling like they're with Jekyll and Hyde.

Have you felt the compunction to respond to the FB posts? Have you had any feedback from friends? My guess is that the sooner this fire stops burning in your life, the sooner you can start to gather your thoughts and start rebuilding your opinion of yourself... .it's okay to think you're a good guy... .really, it is. From what you have learnt about BPD, do you think commenting on her posts would shorten or lengthen the time it takes for her to "job on"?

No feedback from friends but her friends were throwing her a pity party with the new 'facts'.

I know, I get it, if I responded it will make the situation go into hyperdrive and not help in the slightest.  I know I have to let this damaged woman go if I love her, facts or truth be dammed.  She hates me now, despises me, and in her mind she now has an even better to reason to do so.  Yes I am mad with myself when she dumped me for going on a stupid dating app for a day but the outcome would be the same I guess if I hadn't but with just a different scenario.  I always felt like an actor in a film in this relationship with no control how the plot would go.

I am blocked everywhere anyway which I guess makes it really easy to go no contact.  Sad thing is I would probably have her back tomorrow is she contacted me, even though I know I would be living a lie... .

I just do not understand how I could go from being dumped because I failed my driving test (which we all know is an incredulous reason) to the script being totally changed that I cheated on her because I went on a site AFTER she discarded me.

I do love her but is it time I just moved on and forgot about her however difficult that would be?  Do I play wait and see?  The whole thing is a learning experience but I feel this time, the 10th time its probably forever.

How would her friends have reacted had she said "I dumped Coastered for failing his driving test, he's such a useless waste of space"? How do you think that would go down with her allergy to guilt and shame? Put it this way, it's far far better that you take the guilt and shame for the break-up.

It's a sad and sorry fact that people regularly give our pwBPD a lot of sympathy for disasters they create. I'm not sure whether or not it's a change in society and the "You alright hoon?" culture or a tenancy for others to want to rescue. Clearly 'the facts' are being portrayed in a skewed manner... .either by her... .or you. My money is on her. 

I think it's worth some time spent thinking about "what if she wants to get back together?" You say you would take her back and 'live a lie'. There is no right or wrong answer here, it is what it is. What and why would you want from the relationship assuming NOTHING changes? You cannot assume anything will change other than your own reactions.

I brought the book "Walking on Eggshells" and I am obviously here as I wanted to try and live a life with her.  I try to calm her down each time but the more I do the more I seem to validate how she was feeling.  I do try and learn from others here and have been given fabulous advise which, I thought, was helping.

For example if I apologise about failing I am validating her anger as being reasonable.  That is a lesson I learnt.  That probably was not wise.

So, as I say, after the 10th discard in a moment of madness after being dumped I setup an online profile, she found this out and now as we know the whole story has changed.  I take responsibility for my stupidity.  It was stupid but I was very, very low after being told it was over, it never was love and she hated me.  I still own my mistake though.

I do not think she will be back, she has drawn a line in the sand now after publicly posting on Facebook what a horrendous piece of crap I am.  I do not think it is something her mind can come back from.  It is so sad as I was willing to reach out and live this type of life, change and learn how to deal with the situation but I am not a medical professional.  I  make mistakes - I am only human dealing with an incredibly complex woman.

A woman I love and probably always will despite the abuse.  Maybe I should ask what that says about me?

She dumped you right? She said the words "We're finished" or alike?

Why is it "Stupid" of you to assume that you are now single and free to join a dating app?

What is more stupid, saying something you don't mean which communicates to someone that you're ending the relationship... .or, accepting what someone else has verbalised as their intention and acting in a manner many people of a single person status would?

Validation is tough. Sometimes we go down the route of validating everything, the valid and the invalid. It's tough to learn and often involves being personally calm in the face of chaos... .but the key is to validate the valid and NOT validate the invalid. I'll raise my hand, I am not proficient at validation yet. In some senses it's better to say very little and listen, even leave painful gaps, than to INVALIDATE... .but if you can validate the valid that's awesome.

e.g. BPD - You're a worthless piece of cr@p, you can't even pass you're driving test
You - I'm sorry you feel I'm worthless not being able to drive, it must be very annoying having to drive me around.
BPD - You have no idea how inconvenient it is to have to drive you too and from work
You - Hmmm yes it is out of your way, I look forward to passing my test and then we can share the journeys.
BPD - If you loved me you would pass your driving test
You - I'll hopefully pass my test the next time round.

Can you see how I have not pain any attention to the insults or 'noise'. I am sure this could be improved and maybe identify more emotions to validate.

Enabler

Yes. she dumped me, told me it was over, hated me, I made her skin crawl and she could not go on anymore as I failed my test.  

Yes, I wish I said the things you said, maybe the conversation would not have degenerated into the fact she felt the need to leave me and then obviously I would not be on a stupid dating app.  I totally see how that could have turned out differently.  However I also know that may have pacified the events on Thursday but then something else would potentially happen Friday.  I always felt I had to be perfect all the time, my game had to be flawless.

I also agree that it is stupid of her to use actions after the ending of a relationship to give as an excuse of ending a relationship, but as you mentioned previously her reasons in her mind now would be more acceptable, and it is what she is using on Facebook as her reason.  (totally crazy but her friends will know no different).  I also think this new narrative is what drives her, in her mind I AM a cheating pile of scum.  She feels this so it MUST be true.

However I know, or I get that horrible feeling, its over this time, she has broadcasted over Facebook what a lying piece of cr@ap I am and how I must have been cheating on her from day one so she has kind of drawn a line that she would have to backtrack from (never going to happen).  I never did, would not dream of it and I love her so much.  She has not spoken to me now since Friday which is the longest in 14 months.  She has totally wiped me from her life like I never existed and the pain is crippling me.  All I ever wanted to do was to hold her close and tell her I understand her pain, I did many times.  If I could take her illness I would, but I cant and I am just left with a devastating feeling of loss and betrayal.  She always said during the discards that I would tell everyone how nasty she was and here we are with her doing exactly the same thing to me.  I feel humiliated.  The only time I have talked about her is here, anonymously trying to get support for us both.

She has blocked me via Facebook, email, phone and texts, whats app and even 'Words with Friends' a silly phone game we used to play together so I cant even reach out to her.

Has anyone got any suggestions what I should do?  Should I just wait and see if she messages me?  She has done some wonderful things for me during the 'idealisation phase' like buy me a car for my birthday.  (after two months of knowing her - yes I know, another red flag) and I am just waiting for her to claim it back.

Obviously I could email her from another email address but I do not want to come across as a stalker or someone desperate.  Would you wait it out, contact her or just leave it as it is?  I guess what I am asking is what my next move should be?  Would someone with BPD see this as weak, disgusting or creepish.  

If I have to let her go, I will.  Thats how much I love her.

Thank you Enabler, I truly appreciate your support.  You guys will never know how much you help and I mean that so much.  If anyone else wants to chime in please do.  I value all opinions even If you think I do not want to hear it.  I do.

Morning Coastered,

For someone with traits of BPD, feeling = fact, irrespective of evidence. You telling her otherwise just invalidates her feeling. Given this, what do you think you'd be able to say which would convince her that you aren't a cheating scumbag? It's comparable to someone trying to convince you the sky was green. She will think what she will think.

My suggestion for your next move would be to use your time to think through whether or not this relationship fits your model of a good relationship. I know it's tough but try and remove yourself from the emotional attachment and see how it looks. One method other board members suggest is thinking, what would I advise a friend to do if they described the relationship to me. She may or may not change her view of you, but this is likely to happen independently of what you do. If this doesn't work itself out, what lessons have you learnt?

I recommend you read this article on how a BPD relationship evolves. It may illustrate that there is a predictable pattern of behaviour.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

Enabler

Nothing, you are right.


Boundaries, and early on!  And to learn how to communicate with her better.  I was thinking logic, she was not capable.


Leave.  I just wish it was that easy in reality.  I have deep feelings for her... .(sigh)

Good morning to you as well, well afternoon just... .

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