BPDFamily.com

I've never even considered visiting a message board like this, but I am very emotionally tired and need some support.

I've been married to my wife for almost 5 years and her BPD traits seem to be getting worse, not better. (She is not officially diagnosed)

Over the past two weeks, I have been called names, cussed at, and even physically hit/scratched. Most of her rages start when I express my concern about how I think she should handle a situation. Whenever I give my opinion about a matter (that goes against her opinion) she flies into a rage, throws her phone at me, etc. She then tells me that I can never see the "good" in her and that I always misunderstand her "intentions." Her comments to me are not just angry on the surface, but VERY cutting and hurtful things about my masculinity/ability to be a good husband, etc.

I also feel like I am losing my mind because she seems to twist the truth whenever I call her out on her rage. After a few DAYS, she may come and try to act normal and apologize. However, her "apologies" always begin by "I'm sorry, BUT if you just wouldn't... ."

She also seems to have a very close attachment to her father, who has rarely told her "NO" for anything in her life. She is his little princess stil. Is this typical of any BPD people?

I could go into so much more and probably will at some point, but I just need an outlet right now.

*welcome*



I'm sorry you are in a tough spot in your relationship, yet I'm really glad you have found bpdfamily.  This is a place that "gets it".  And... .we can help.

Look to the right of the screen.  I would encourage you to click on "choosing a path".  Read and take notes.  Post here about things that grab your attention or that you don't understand.

I would also recommend you look at the bold in my quote above.

I get it that you think "it's just an opinion" and "people can disagree".  That's how we "nons" see it.  Most likely she "hears" that she is wrong... .not that her "opinion" is wrong.

Most pwBPD overpersonalize things.

I wonder what you can do in the short run to restrain sharing your opinions of what she does?  Does she ask for your input?

I'll check back later tonight to see if you replied. 

Hang in there... we can help you make this better.

FF

PS "flyguy" ?  You a pilot?

FF,
Thanks for your response. Actually, I was asked by her for my opinion about the content of a presentation she was making and my observations about it seemed to make her feel like I was attacking her. She then proceeded to cuss me out and got physical with me out of frustration.

I seriously feel like I’m in an alternate reality when I’m around her. It’s like I KNOW what I said about a certain thing but she twists my words so much that I second guess myself.

Hi flyguy,

Welcome, and can I please just say that from your post, I feel like you're going through very similar situations as I am?  I know how it feels, how we nons gradually become unable to express any opinion other that what the pwBPD is saying, because, well... .we know the consequences and it's scary and hurtful.  Extremely so.

Even when it's the pwBPDs themselves who are asking for our opinion, we can be sure that they don't really want to hear our honest truth, or else they'll flip.  There are techniques on here that will help you get your point across (like SET, DEARMAN- but DEARMAN is a bit too complicated for me to practice, so I normally try out SET), but it's also important to pick your battles with a pwBPD.  There's just so much invalidation they can take- and a pwBPD's threshold for invalidation is pretty low. 

I think that's why people around pwBPDs (diagnosed or not) tend to not say "no" to them, because there are bad consequences.  My uBPDh's family rarely says "no" to him, because he can be extremely mean to them when they do.  Of course they don't know anything about BPD I think, and they also don't have the skills to convey their "no" in a less invalidating way.  Unfortunately, this means that sometimes I seem to be the only person on earth invalidating him, because as his spouse, at times I have to disagree with him on certain things that are important.  And if I don't do that carefully (I don't mean being extremely fearful of him, but to think about what to say in advance that will get my point across in a constructive way), it backfires really, really badly. 

Also, regarding the hurtful comments- I get them a lot too, and they always say the most hurtful things because they know exactly how to push our buttons.  They say those things looking for a reaction from us.  They want to project their negative feelings on to us.  I know it's hard but try to see beyond the words (e.g. He has told me numerous times that I'm much better off dead, and that people as useless as I am are usually too cowardly to kill myself, I take it as "he doesn't want to be in my presence now, he feels very angry and disconnected, and wish I would just disappear so that his problems would disappear".  See?).  Don't react to the words at face value, otherwise you'll be giving them just the reaction they want.  You can also take a look at the lesson on how not to JADE when being attacked, it has been helpful for me too. 

Hope you will stay around and share more with us.  Hang in there!

Chosen

Hi flyguy, welcome and glad you found us.

Chosen gave you some excellent advice and I don't have much to add on top of it. But as someone who also deals with physical violence from my wife my heart really goes out to you. I've experienced everything you have, including the phone throwing.

Am I right in sensing from your post (all these things happened in two weeks) that the situation is starting to escalate recently? Or have things more or less been this way a long time? At this point, are you more looking for a way to cope and communicate, or perhaps some measures to take against the violence? I can give suggestions on either.

Sending you strength,
RolandOfEld

Good job coming back soon and posting followup!   





 red-flag

I want to join the others in expressing concern about this and your safety.

Is the "getting physical" part a recent addition to the crazy or has it been fairly constant?

Good job waiting until she asks for input, yet it must be incredibly frustrating to give her what she asks and have it tossed back in your face. 

If given a "do-over" how do you think you could approach this for a better result?

FF

Thank you all so much for your responses. In short, the physical abuse has been happening on a more frequent basis since about May. Let me give a bit more background... .

In May, we were visiting my parents in a different state. My family has always been supportive and loving of both of us. I have never shared with them the abuse (both verbal and physical) that my wife has inflicted upon me until this year. My parents have approached me only a couple of times in regard to my wife’s sporadic emotional outbursts when things did not go her way. For instance, we may be going to a restaurant as a family (in the same car) and my wife will whisper loudly in my ear “Why are he going there? I don’t like that place!” Everyone in the car heard her. They see it as someone who has “control problems.” During this visit, she demanded that we leave on a particular day, even though we had planned to stay longer. I rarely get to see my family, so I took the bait and told her we are not leaving because we have other activities planned through the week. Things escalated, she started yelling at me and crying, and she went upstairs to pack her things. I asked her what she was doing and she said she was taking the car and going back home (keep in mind we have one car and I would be stranded if she left). Long story short, she left... .for two weeks. Of course, her parents welcomed her with open arms and justified her behavior. Again, I’ve always felt like her Dad (who rarely goes against what she says) loves the fact that she runs to him.

My parents were dumbfounded by her behavior and that was when I told them everything I was going through in our marriage. I am now very embarrassed for my wife to be around my family due to this incident.

Fast forward to now, we  are both going through a lot of life changes (including moving) that began back in the spring. From my perspective, these changes are good because it will mean a better life for us financially and it happens to be a job I’ve always dreamed of doing (which she has known since before we were married). I am the bread winner of the family and she has always expressed that she would like to be a stay at home wife (which I have never argued against and supported). This position would allow her to do that and still allow me to provide for her financially. A win-win right? WRONG. She was OK with the idea while I was interviewing. But after When I officially accepted the new position, it was like World War 3. After finding a house (which she really liked during the showing and was excited about), she now HATES it. She also HATES the city, people, etc and reminds me about it every day.

The last two weeks, the physical abuse has gone up a notch. There is punching, scratching (to the point it draws blood), and she’s grabbed my neck twice now. I nearly got the authorities involved on one occasion (and probably should have). To answer your question, I need help COPING and communicating with her. Even though my parents understand the situation more than anyone, I still feel uncomfortable talking about my marriage with them. Thanks for your input.

Thanks for the clarification... .I have a better idea of the "dynamic" that is going on.

For these types of disorders, it's rarely "one event".  It helps to back up and look at the big picture, then pick a "healthy" and "consistent" way forward.

You are doing a great job coming back and posting... explaining more... etc etc.  Keep that up.

Much of what you will learn here is likely to be "counter-intuitive.  Don't by shy  about saying/asking "do what?  Really?"

In your particular situation, I bet you are going to pick our teaching up really quickly... .because you have already made some really healthy, apparently boundary driven choices that I want to APPLAUD!

1.  You "let" her leave you parents (basically called her bluff).  That was the right thing to do!

2.
A big concept to understand.  validation and invalidation

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

  I can tell it is perplexing to you that YOU are delivering what she says she wants (SAHM) and she appears to be freaking out about this.  This is counter-intuitive and there is some "tea leaf reading" in here.

Most likely she doesn't "feel like" she deserves this kind of stuff, yet she wants it.  So, when it actually is coming true, her feelings are "invalidated" (reality doesn't match her feelings).  

Most "nons" would be happy getting what they want.  pwBPD rarely are.


3.  Few things to clarify.  

Screen name flyguy.  Is there a link to aviation in your life?

Do you have any children?

Do you have plans for children/more children?


I'll sign off this post by again posting  red-flag about the physical stuff.

What consequences have come her way from physical stuff with you?  Have authorities or anyone else ever been involved?

As  you look back over the physical incidents, I want you to think about them and see if you can seem "common themes" that lead to her "crossing the line".  Was it a subject... something you said/did?  (I'm not suggesting this is your "fault"... .I am hoping that we can find "triggering themes" and figure a way to address those, in hope of reducing physical stuff.

Keep up the good work posting!

FF

FF,

Thank you again for a very helpful and thoughtful response. To answer a few of your questions, no I am not a pilot. I enjoy flyfishing, hence the name Flyguy. It is one of the things I can do to disconnect from the stress I go through at home. There have been no consequences to speak of regarding the physical abuse. I have had to restrain her at times for my own safety, which she interprets as me putting my hands on her out of anger. Honestly, I was just trying to protect myself in defense. Part of my fear of her is that she threatens to destroy my career and reputation by spewing lies if she is ever exposed (saying I’m a homosexual, adulterous, etc). None of this is true and I’ve always been faithful to her. She is always paranoid of what I look at online, who I’m talking to, etc. However, I am mostly past the fear of that now.

The common theme that I see with the physical stuff is whenever she feels like she is not going to “get her way” about something. The last incident was in regard to purchasing an item that we really don’t “need” and can’t afford. She screamed at me saying she never gets what she wants and eventually escalated to physical violence.

There are no children. I have always desired children, but I am not willing to bring them into this dysfunctional situation. Whenever I bring up the subject, she tells me that she has “no desire for children” and that is pretty much the end of the conversation. Although it has been difficult for me, I have pretty much come to grips with the fact that we will probably not have children as long as I am in this relationship.

Also, I read the article you posted. I can certainly do a better job of validation. One of the obstacles I will have to overcome is that validating her feelings makes me “feel” like I’m validating her out of control behavior.

Very wise.  I'm assuming you are taking care of birth control?   These boards are filled with stories of people where they pwBPD "forgot".

Fishing... .  

OK... there is a term you may see call FOG "Fear Obligation and Guilt"

If you are making decisions because of one of those... .it is very likely you are doing it wrong.  So... .tie that into your decisions about consequences for getting physical.  What are your thoughts? 

More physical questions.  Are we talking once a month? 

Have you tried to leave the situation before it got physical?   How did that go?

If you can focus on a recent example, perhaps do some he said she said, we might be able to help you disengage prior to violence.

Listen... .another big picture thing is to calm things down enough so that you can think through where you want to go with this relationship.  That's really hard to do when you are worrying that she will ruin you with accusations of various things.

Make sense?  We're really interested in keeping you and her physically safe.

FF

Yes, physical stuff is between 1-2 times a month. And yes, I have tried to leave the situation a couple times. Those were the best situations as I left the house for an hour or so until things cooled down. However, the last two incidents happened in the car, so I was unable to leave unless I pulled over somewhere.

Our sex life is practically non existent right now (and not because of her lack of drive). I’m to the place where it is very difficult to have any intimate feelings towards her now.

.  

OK... understandable, but looking back... .do you wish you had pulled over?

Listen... I've done this.  It's uncomfortable... .but it helped me and my relationship move past "being trapped" in the car.

Yes... this is about your physical safety.  Keep it in context as well.  It's about her ability to control and abuse you.  (also understand she is likely not "thinking it through this way"... .but it is a emotional thing on her part)

So... she perceives that you are trapped and she can "go for it", you show weakness (please... not blaming you... this is her likely perception) and then she goes after what she wants (control) in a dysfunctional way.

I've pulled over, taken the keys and went inside a restaurant and let my wife calm down (yes... in front of kids).  I wouldn't get back in until she said we were done talking until getting to the destination.

I did that several times and the in car "control thing" pretty much went away.  Years later she "tested" the boundary with kids in the car.  I pulled over and said "We can be back at our house in 5 minutes and I'll drop you off, or we can stop talking and continue 30 minutes to our destination."  Kids were whimpering in the back.  She blamed me for making them cry (i didn't bite).  I finally said "If I don't hear an answer in 1 minute, I'm taking everyone back to the house"  As I started to turn around, she said she would stop talking (which she did) so we continued on to our destination (the movies in this case)

Big picture:  Once you get it in your head that you WILL NOT be abused... .and if that means you are late... .looks embarrassing on side of road... .(fill in blank with other consequence) then you will hopefully be able to move past this in your relationship.

She will likely never agree this is good idea or she is at fault... .but she will likely quit trying, because she no longer gets what she wants.

Make sense?

FF

I'm getting pretty heavy in this thread (because safety is big deal)... I'll step back and let others welcome you some... and let you read more articles.  Read the one to your right.

I'm a domestic violence survivor advocate and have been for years and one thing that hasn't been mentioned is how serious any form of strangulation or cutting off air supply is. This is a serious problem and extremely lethal. It can only take 6-10 seconds for someone to die from pressure on their neck. And the sequelae and health consequences continue down the road even if death is not the result. PLEASE take your safety seriously. If you call 1-800-799-safe (7233) you can get local resources or at least some in-depth safety planning.

I'm very worried for you. I don't have more time to respond right now but I hope you can get some plans in place to prevent those events from happening.

Gentle hugs and best wishes to you.

A little update about tonight... .

So my wife abandoned me... .AGAIN... .at a place where I have no transportation, no clothes, etc. I am so discouraged and upset.


She returned from working somewhere and then came back to where we are staying for a couple nights telling me I'm lazy, unmotivated, etc. just because she did a little bit of work. I told her I didn't appreciate being talked to that way and then she proceeded to tell me I was worthless. I retreated from her and then she yelled at me saying she was taking the car and leaving.

I am sitting in the room alone without any idea if she is coming back or not. I'm wishing more and more that I wasn't in this marriage. It is nights like tonight that I feel a lot of regret.

   

Be kind to yourself.  Take a walk.  Do your best to relax.

You did well standing your ground and sticking up for yourself.

Is there someone you can call?

FF

Hi flyguy, that is awful what happened to you! Any update on your status? Were you able to get some help?

I have to say that I think your situation is in the more dangerous range of disordered behavior. At one end of the range is emotional abuse, at the other is physical endangerment. Many of us here also see our careers at risk due to disordered behavior.

When discussing such situations with members (I have been in them myself), I think we need to focus on establishing physical and financial safety before moving onto things like communication. She has already threatened you career. Would you consider running interference on her by opening up to your boss about the situation? I did when I saw taking biz trips out of country was going to be impossible and its relieved my pressure quite a bit.

Money-wise, do you have your own accounts if she leaves you stranded somewhere again, steals from you, or goes on a spending spree? I don't know if she's done this before but it sounds wholly within the range of her possible behaviors. I keep extra money in a hidden account just in case any of the above happens.

The key point is, you need to cordon off your job and your family before she gets to them. Only after you are physically safe can you enable communication.

~ROE

Hi flyguy,

I am so sorry to hear about these incidents! You must have felt so terrible!

I have only been threatened to be left in other places, other countries in fact, but never was. It is scary though to have threats and ever feel unsafe because of one's partner. I don't want that for you ever!

If you call a local DV shelter perhaps they can do more detailed planning with you. Do you have to be in a car with her? Are you usually driving when incidents happen?

When situations escalate it is very important for the two of you to not be near other. Is she scratching and hitting, etc.?

wishing you peace, pearl.

Hi sotiredofthis,

Thank you for offering support here along with many others... .ROE and FF thank you as well for showing support!

Thank you for these insightful comments about strangulation. I was not aware of this. That is good to know! Oh my!

sincerely, pearl.

Thank you all for your input.

A little update... .

She did come back later on that night. I was so emotionally distraught that I honestly didn't want to see her again. As Roland mentioned, I do fear my career is in danger. The following morning, I did call my superior (whom I am very close with) and explained a bit about the situation. It was embarrassing to do it, but I am at the point where I can't hide it anymore. Everyone around me sees there is a problem; it's time to admit that I need help. I am on the edge of a nervous breakdown and I have to get off of the merry-go-round eventually. Her parents also got on a 3-way call with me (and her) explaining how I have not treated her right and that is why she acts out like she does. I am really not sure if I need to have an honest discussion with them about how they support their daughter's behavior, but I have a feeling it wouldn't do any good.

The last few days have been good... .until today. Following the incident, she was very loving and compassionate. She still blamed her irrational behavior on me, but she admitted she didn't want to treat me that way, loved me, etc.

Fast forward to today... .We were parked in the car today (outside my office) and we were discussing getting some new furniture. With our lives being so hectic, I suggested we wait until we move into our new house before we think about getting new stuff. However, she wants it NOW. The tears started flowing and the anger started coming out because I suggested we wait and save our $$ a bit more until we purchase new stuff. Moving is very expensive and I've already paid a fortune painting the house (something else she HAD to have before moving in). She then started calling me names, screaming, and crying. I asked her to calm down several times, to no avail. I eventually got out of the car and now am sitting in my office. She tried to call me several times, hysterically screaming on the phone. I calmly told her that if she didn't talk to me with respect and calm down, I would hang up (Which I did, three times).

A couple days ago, I scheduled an appointment with a counselor that we plan to meet with this week. I am hoping he can bring some sanity to my life and see through what is happening. She has already threatened to bring up "All of the things that I do to hurt her." I pray that he can see through the façade and really give us some help.


Lastly, although our new house isn't completely "done" I am considering moving into it, even if I do it alone. After the recent events, I don't feel comfortable staying in my inlaws home (Which is where we are at as an in-between place) due to their support of her and criticism of me.


Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. This has been a great outlet for me.

Hey flyguy,

A lot of your story resonates with me. My wife and I moved a few years ago and that was a trigger for a lot of rage and anger that continues today. It seemed like a positive change to me. It was a house she liked, she wouldn't have to work, etc. It was a move she wanted to make. Now our house isn't "right," the town we live in is terrible, and I'm a monster for keeping her trapped here. It's bewildering. My wife also has had similar instances to what you describe with your family. She's also verbally, emotionally, and sometimes physically abusive. I'm often on the receiving end of the rapid change from normal conversation to screaming and yelling, and when I leave, I get the hysterical texts and phone calls. She also has a long list of the things I've done to hurt her. I don't have any great advice on handling all of it. I'm very much a work-in-progress, but you're very much not alone in dealing with this stuff.

I will share some thoughts on seeing a therapist together. Over the last few years, we've done this with four different therapists. It has tended to go one of two ways. Either the therapist doesn't see through the facade and treats us like a "normal" couple, or the therapist does see through it and my wife feels attacked. Neither outcome has been particularly helpful. One mistake I think I made was to try to get the therapist to see through the facade. I'd explain things she'd done, her behavior, things she says, the rage, etc. This made my wife feel attacked, and like me and therapist were teaming up against her. Obviously, this did not turn out well. I think it would have been better to let my wife take the lead, let her say whatever she wants to say, and take a long-term view of therapy. It will very likely be a long process, and if you stick with therapy, the truth will come out without forcing it so much and possibly making things worse. My wife never developed any trust with the T, and that's huge with pwBPD. I guess I'm cautioning, based on my experience, against expecting too much too soon from a T.

I would also highly recommend seeing a T yourself. It took me a long time to decide I should do this for myself, and I then had to go through four or five different ones to find someone that worked well for me. It has been really helpful for me. It's so nice to have someone to talk to about it all that you don't have to censor or be so careful with everything you say, and who can give you more objective feedback and help with navigating it all. The other upshot of it is that I managed to get my wife to see a T in the same practice, who we are also seeing together occasionally. I signed a release to allow my T to talk with the other T. So the other T has some idea of the bigger picture beyond what my wife tells her, without me having to bring it up in couples T. I think that has been really helpful, too.

Again, I'm no expert on any of this. This has just been my experience, which may or may not be of some value to you. I hope you're able to find some peace amidst all of it.

Thank you so much for your input. I just want to see some light at the end of the tunnel. I'm really hoping this therapist will help. Have things improved at all since your counseling sessions began?

Hi flyguy, first off, really great move talking to your boss. I was super embarrassed too. In fact, I almost cried during it but managed to get it out with just a slightly shaky voice. What it comes down to is that you have a sick family member at home, no different than cancer or alzheimers.There is nothing in this to be ashamed of. 

Please know that what you did took courage and strength, which means you have them, and these are the two things you will need most to pull yourself out of a negative situation.


Oh my goodness all the times I have been here, facing demands to move right away and then hell when I say I can't. I have wasted countless realtors time in apartment quests that went nowhere. Again, this comes back to cordoning off your financial security. Do not do things that are beyond your ability to quell one argument.

Regarding the counselor part, I think stolencrumbs nails it. Treat it as exactly what it is, two people trying to improve their marriage, not a chance to expose her. It has to be equal for it to work. That said, by all means raise specific behaviors of hers at the right time, and bring proof where you have it like texts.

It was only in our last session a few weeks ago that we had a breakthrough here. I felt comfortable enough to get heated and honest about some of the things my wife had done. And the counselor was on my side, or at least able to present how this was not OK to my wife. 

For your own needs, absolutely see your own T. 

You are doing great, hang in there! 

~ROE

Yes and no. The individual counseling sessions have really helped. For me, it's not so much seeing a light at the end of the tunnel as it is creating some light inside the tunnel. I've definitely made progress on that, and from my perspective at least, it's been a major improvement. We've only seen the new T together twice, and I wouldn't say we're seeing results, yet, but I am hopeful, and I am really glad we are going.