BPDFamily.com

I just learned after 26 years that my wife has BPD.

Hi iadfa :hi:

Welcome to bpdfamily. How did you learn your wife has BPD?

Could you tell us a bit more about what you are dealing with? What are the main BPD traits you see in your wife?

Take care and I hope to read more of your story later.

The Board Parrot

it is a long long story
I am so busy with my work that I never paid any attention, I never even thought about it.  I never thought the constant fighting, arguing was abnormal.  she has lied to me about having sexual relationships in the past while we were together.  I educated myself and learned that she has been hiding all these sexual escapades from me.  I went through a really long discovery phase and couldn't figure out why she doesn't want to talk about it and she was in denial about it up to this day so I figured there was something wrong with her psychologically.  I have read numerous books trying to figure out the reason why she would do this and this lead me to the last few books I read which opened my eyes to the world of personality disorders and high conflict personalities.  I read 5 types of people who can ruin your life and stop walking on eggshells and although I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist I am certain she suffers from borderline personality disorder.  the last book I read which was stop walking on eggshells really resonated with everything that has been happening to me as a non-bp all my life.  I had to stop reading certain parts of the book at times and take a deep breath.  I am still in the early stages of discovery.  from what I can gather she would be considered a very high functioning BPD.  I am not stuck on the diagnosis and feel that there may be other pathology so I read on.  I have reached out to a psychologist and asked him to help me find a clinician (expert in personality disorders) who can assist me answer some of my questions.

iadfo, I'm sorry for your pain, but am glad you have found us!  This is a great place to get support and learn coping tools.  The real power of bpdfamily comes when you visit regularly, are active in your own thread, letting us help you practice the tools with your wife, and you reach out to support others in their threads.

If Eggshells resonated with you, you might also want to read The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder (https://bpdfamily.com/book-reviews/essential-family-guide-borderline-personality-disorder), by the same author, which teaches coping tools.

What is the most difficult thing about your day-to-day life with your wife?

WW

it is hard to answer that question.  I think the hardest part is how could I have missed this, how did I not pick up on all the things that have been going on for so long.  I feel so stupid.  I must tell you that I am in shock. 

right now, at this moment in time the most important thing is for me to learn coping skills so I am reading everything I can on the subject.  she has started lashing out at my oldest child (12).  she calls her names, screams at her, scolds her, and I don't even know what happens between them when I am not home.  my daughter stays in her room when she is home and ironically my wife asks me why she stays in her room all day and all night.  she wants to know whats wrong with my daughter.  I have to find a way to tell my wife that she stays in her room so she doesn't have to see you and be scolded and screamed at.

Hi iadafa,

I'm so sorry for the shock of all this! It was a surprise for me too, and for many of us! I knew something was "off" but could not put my finger on it and it was not easy to track down reasons for what I was seeing, especially because my partner was high functioning and did not seem to meet all the traits.

Most people here do not have official diagnosis of what is going on with their partners, and you may never get this either, nevertheless you can do something regarding the behaviors you see - at least how you react to them!

Does she seem to have all the traits of BPD? Do you mean besides BPD you think there could be other issues going on?

wishing you peace, pearl.

I have seen different patterns of behavior in her past that could be explained by ADHD and OCD.  she meets most of the criteria for BPD.  I have not seen nor do I suspect any symptoms or signs of suicidal ideation or self mutilation.  

criteria 1(abandonment)

she has exhibited this behavior soon after we started dating.  I thought it was different at that time but did not think it was pathological.  she would leave me for hours or days stating that she wanted to be by herself.  I was always the pushy one.  I always wanted to be with her.  I would always try to make up and get back together.  she would never try to come back to me and make up.  I would do or say anything to have her by my side.  I still do.

I was so happy specially in the beginning to be with her.  I loved her and I love her dearly to this day.  I never did understand why she would just get up and walk out sometimes for the smallest , tiniest of disagreements.  I thought it was cute at that time.  I thought she was playing hard to get.  it was cute.  I wouldn't even call some of it even fighting.  she would just have a change in her mood and decide that she was going to leave me.  these were the early years.  

she was really the only person that I had been really close to romantically so I lacked experience.  years later I found out that after some of those fights or arguments she dated other men and had sexual relationship with them.  after one of these affairs she told me if I had not come back and tried to make up with her she would have stayed with that guy.  

she tends to completely disconnect when I try to approach her and speak to her.  she calls me names and lashes out at me and walks away so we really hardly have any serious conversations.  over the last few weeks as I have learned a bit more about her condition I have been able to communicate little better.  there has been more dialogue than we have ever had. she is very bright and smart.  yet, she has absolutely no clear perception of what I am trying to do.  

she has a shield around her and she refuses to open up to me about anything that is related to our relationship or her.  she is very quick and lately has been telling me that there is no hope for us in a very sharp, confident tone.  but at the same time she plans out trips and wants to do other things that conflict with what she is saying. she clearly does not want us to be over.  

she has threatened to leave me,  she has repeatedly told me to leave and there is no other way and the next day we are holding hands and going out to eat.  it is like a roller coaster!  I want to help her, I want to help us and I know I am not supposed to be her psychiatrist but at some level I want to be there for her.  

she read one of my texts requesting a referral for a doctor that specializes in personality disorders and she laughed hysterically and asked me if I was crazy to think she has a personality disorder.  I hope this doesn't cause problems later when she eventually agrees to see someone for her problem.

Hi iadafa,

There are a lot of issues here to discuss so I strongly urge you to stay here on the boards with us and keep talking this through! This will take some time, but we can talk it all out post by post!  

There is a push/pull dynamic to learn about. There are better ways to respond to it than most of us instinctually do! In fact, a lot of the best responses have a counter-intuitive feel to them, but they can make a difference. A lot of it, to your surprise, is actually about changing ourselves!

Be sure you read all of the lessons to the right of board here. |---> (Scroll back up to those green words!)

Let me also share these two links with you to help you with the issue of telling someone about BPD or not & getting someone into therapy:

Telling Someone You Think They Have BPD (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=76633.0)

How To Get a Loved One Into Therapy (https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy)

Please come back and let us know what you think about these topics! It helps us all to learn/relearn when we talk about it!

with compassion, pearl.

p.s. Please don't be down on yourself for not seeing this sooner! Okay?  It won't change anything.  This isn't often talked about in larger societal discussions around mental health that the majority of us regular folks hear about. Who knew?

But the good news is the more of us that learn about it and talk about it could make a big difference in this not being such an underground secret! So, when you are ready, let's go forward with the work we have at hand here!

Hey Iadfa,

Happy you've found us, sad you needed to.

I know this is tough because often 'facts' and 'truth' is in short supply in these kinds of relationships, but have you spent any time documenting what you know... .dates, events, other landmarks like family holidays. I found that my head was in such a muddle owing to the huge amounts of lies my W has told me (and herself), unravelling the ball of string became confusing. Starting with a concrete foundation of understanding THE FACTS was pivotal in me gaining a solid footing on me and my relationship. It's clearly not something most people think about doing, documenting their relationship fights and good times.

Does she have any other behaviours such as alcoholism? There's a fine line between alcoholism and 'likes a drink' which often goes unnoticed in the hectic nature of life. My W wouldn't say she had a problem... .but she rarely seems to leave the house without a bottle of Prosecco.

We're here for you buddy.

Enabler

There is a history of alcohol use for many years.  She does not drink like she use to now.  She has a 1-2 drinks in the evening now.  She also has a history according to her if drug use in her younger years.

Hi iadafa,

Can you please tell us more about how you have changed in your communication towards her lately? What seemed to be making a bit of a difference?

What kinds of things do you want to say to her?

warmly, pearl.

I have tried to be more warm and soothing when she gets upset.  I repeatedly tell her that I completely understand her position and how she feels but I disagree with it.  I try to be in the background when she interacts with the kids.  Specially the older one and I try to explain to her that we should always try to speak to them in a more calm manner.  WE should try to not bash them and ridicule them and call them names.  We should instead point out the problem and try to do it in a different manner.

She in turn turns around and sarcastically remarks that did I read that in one of those ridiculous books

I feel so weak.  I feel so helpless.  I feel that this is going to be an uphill battle but I am in for the long haul.

I don’t even know what type of questions I want to ask her at this point.  First goal is to improve the treatment of the kids.  She is very nice with them most of the time. But those times when her mood rapidly shifts and she starts screaming at them is what I am working on.  This has to stop first.  I can wait to ask my questions.  It also gives me time to learn more.  I’m trying to praise her for every little nice thing she does. I feel like I have 5 kids now.  No adults.

I must tell you that I understand what is going on with her at an intellectual level but I am lost emotionally.  I follow the guidelines and coping mechanisms.

Hey iadfa,

I’d like to understand a little more about how the dynamic between you, your wife and the kids and conflict goes. It feels like the right thing to do to play referee for all sides and ‘tell’ people how to talk to each other, however for a person with BPD ‘telling’ is often not the best way. Here’s an example:

W - you stupid scum bag kids, you’re useless and you never clean up after yourself ... .(bunch of childish language, use of words like ‘never’, a bucket load of personalised insults, stupid, scum bag... .standard stuff and a lot worse I’d imagine)

You - dearest, we don’t need to be insulting and the kids do sometimes clean up after themselves

So, on the face of that it would seem nice and calm, nice and polite and good refereeing... .however... .“dearest” she may well hate you at that point... .“we don’t need to be insulting” well she feels like she does at the moment and she just did, so shut up and stop having a go at me, I know what I’m doing, I’m not a complete moron. “The kids do sometimes clean up after themselves” now you’re just saying I’m mental right? Like I don’t have a clue what they do and don’t do, who are you to tell me what is and isn’t true. Weirdly that line has got a whole bunch of “invalidation” in it and you didn’t even know it.

Have you read the tools section on the karpman triangle? I’m on an iPhone at the moment so it’s not to easy to get but it’s in the tool section and it’s invaluable to understand this dynamic. By the sounds of things your W starts at the position of victim, she believes the girls are the perpetrators (they are making a mess that she has to clear up... .poor me), sh attacks them with foul lanaguage and accusations, she flips to perpetrator and your kids are now seen by you as the victims. You enter in as the rescuer coming up with solutions, telling people how to talk with each other (on her shoulder). Your W I suspect the. Feels attacked, assumes the victim position and you leave the incident being the perpetrator even though you were trying to sort things out in a calm way. (Or some variation or other). Actually you all feel victimised by each other some legitimately and some because they have sensitivities to invalidation. So the key is, how do you stay centred such that you don’t add to the conflict between your wife and your kids. Sometmes you actually have to allow these conflicts to play out, sometimes you need to step in. When you step in, first and most importantly you have to validate the emotion “hey. I get you’re annoyed about the mess, it’s annoying when the house is a tip, constantly clearing up sucks, can you please ask them without making their ears bleed and the nasty names” “kids, would you kindly clear up after yourselves, this clutter is getting everyone down, thanks”.

Someone might like to critique my response but rather than push both parties away saying you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re kinda pulling them both towards the middle and away from their respective corners towards a healthy solution. You didn’t disagree with your wife’s point, you asked her to cease elements of its expression, then you ‘showed’ her in a non-cliche way what asking nicely looks like.

I’d like to add that I’m still rubbish at this. I invariable allow things to play out rather than adding fuel to a fire. I oversee rather than rescue.

It’s scary how familiar you are with these escalations and conflicts because you describe them better than me.  I want to thank you for your advice.  I understand your points.  I will try to be more sensitive to her feelings and emotions and keep that aspect as one of the most important parts of the resolution.  I will check out most of the suggested reads.

Thanks again

Hi iadafa,

Following up on what Enabler said I wanted to share some links with you:

Validation Skill: Stop Invalidating Others (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0)

Validation Examples (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=124001.0)

Karpman Drama Triangle (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0)

I'm really impressed too with how he was able to write out an argument can sound like that off the top of his head! But yikes!

And about thinking you are saying the right stuff, let me share that early on I was doing a lot of what you are probably doing, trying to "reason with the person". But after I read up on the information here, surprise, I realized how invalidating I could be at times. So, really, really take your time reading and rereading on this communication information because understanding the subtle differences in how we speak can go a long way to cut out at least some bad situations!

wishing you the best, pearl.

First of all I think it is important that you slow things down. Be a lot slower to get involved and a lot slower to wade in. Observe the dynamic for a while, say nothing but see how these arguments evolve. Start from the position of "Ideally I don't want to get involved here, this is not my conflict" and really really try and stay out as much as possible, yes she might scream and should and call them nasty names but my guess is she has been doing this for some time now so it's not a new thing that 'shocks' the kids. You learning and making bigger long term changes is more important, as long as the children are safe. Backwards to go forwards... .

What type of parent would you say that you are currently, and what type of parent do you aspire to be?
Passive - few rules (boundaries), kids free to explore, create mess and be chaotic if they want to
Authoritative - Age appropriate rules, supported by consequences for breach of the rules
Authoritarian - Strict heavily policed narrow rules defined to 'raise' kids in a defined way in a defined trajectory... .defined by you as per your personal blueprint.

Defining your own relationship and parenting style with the kids is important. Accepting that you are not in a relationship where you can have a joint parenting model with your W is critical. She is likely inconsistent with her model, with the model changing as per her feelings. My W for example initially acts in a passive manner avoiding conflict and ignoring bad behaviour, because conflict = stress and stress = negative emotions that she is avoidant of... .however, as the chaos increases and children invalidate and disrupt her life, she can no longer provide the unconditional acceptance of chaos required for passive parenting... .and freaks out, start blaming and shouting, accusing and shaming, thus flipping to authoritarian parenting.  This is confusing for the kids because they go from doing whatever they like in chaos, to having strict rules and punishments, and then back again. For many years I attempted to co-parent with her, defining my parenting style by her current mode, and reinforcing her... .generally when the chaos got too much and I could see her dysregulating I would step in and rescue her by being bad cop... .Defining my own parenting style has allowed me to gain respect from the children as they identify my consistency. I am bad cop now when I determine, rather than in an attempt to rescue my wife from the consequences of her passive parenting.

Hope this makes sense

Enabler

I am following your advice and trying to stay calm and collected.  there was so much i was not paying attention to.  the rage comes on quite suddenly.  i have trouble not stopping her when she is calling the kids names.  it goes something like this.  i have told you before a 100 times that you are not supposed to do this.  how many times do i have to tell you?  you kids are all no good.  you are the dumbest kids.  you think other kids behave like you guys do. there is something wrong with you kids, you are abnormal.  it then escalates even further and she starts mumbling things like i should have never had kids.  having kids is over rated.  I usually stop her depending on how harsh she is with the kids because im afraid they are going to have major issues when they grow up.  sometimes she stops and sometimes she lashes out at me for not knowing anything, not doing anything and the usual name calling.

my parenting style is passive.  i try to have the kids determine what they need to do but it is not happening.  so we both have become stricter. 

I am trying to read whatever i can get my hands on the subject.i am reading get me out of here.

Welcome to BPDfam!

This a good and safe place to come and learn more about the BPD phenomena.

I came here in crises some nineteen months ago now, and this place has helped to understand so much more and actually be able to survive in my own marriage.

Keep posting and tell us more as you can!

Again welcome iadfa!

Kind regards... .Red5

I am still in disbelief.  I feel like an outsider in my own life.  I feel like my life for the past decade and a half has just been rolling on without me being present.  I feel like I coped with all the fighting/anger and discourse by just staying away and working and keeping myself busy.  I am trying to actively be present now.  I am diligent and curious about everything that she says and does to try to understand her.  I feel like things would have been so much easier if she was not a high functioning BPD.  I am at a certain level overwhelmed by all the information I am obtaining.  I feel,like I have to sit down for a few days or weeks and just right down all the things that has happened in our life.  This information I feel will make it more real to me that there is something seriously wrong with her.  I also feel there is something seriously wrong with me for not being able to detect or notice that all these things that happened were wrong and abnormal.  I am feeling more confident about my perceptions of her and I don’t blame myself for any of this.  I know who is was.  I was a happy, confident and outgoing person and I need to start getting that back while trying to get help for her.

That is exactly the attitude that’s going to get you out of this hole.

Like boiling a frog, pop him in when it’s boiling and he’ll jump straight out, pop him in when it’s cold and then turn the heat up and he’ll boil alive blissfully unaware of his own demise. BPD comes in many shapes and sizes, some times it comes with sirens of rage, slashed arms and suicide attempts, sometimes it’s less obvious, more like a golden thread running through everything. It’s always there, always influential, just not in your face.

Have you read the piece about how a borderline relationship evolves? It could be helpful with any guilt or shame you have of how you’ve got to this point. Either way, this is where you are now and there’s not much you can do about the past... .other than learn from it. Start with concrete islands of facts and build up. Use photos for dates as they will all have a digital time stamp. Start with facts and evidence first. Memories and feelings can be manipulated by current emotions so building up a better factual picture of good and bad times will help avoid skewing your recollections of the past with current sentiment.

Remember, not everything was a BPD thing, sometimes it was because you were being a d!ck as well.

Great work being present for your wife and family. Be slow to judge, be even slower to react, be even slower to open your mouth especially to say the word ‘no’.

Keep posting and take a look at other threads and get involved on other topics, I’m sure you’ll find it hugely beneficial.

Enabler

Afternoon Enabler!

Can you provide us with a link to that story, I'd very much like to read that !

Hope your having a good day !

Red5

Here you go studs.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

Hi iadafa,

Just wanted to check in and see how you are feeling?

I know this can all be overwhelming... .it is a lot to take in!

warmly, pearl.

I am surviving.  I’m trying to keep my head out of the water.  I am not confrontational.  There are so many questions I have for her.  I don’t even know where to start.  I realize that I can’t just go about asking what I want to know.  I realize answers may never come and not because she doesn’t want to but her reality is different than mine.    Part of me is breaking down.  After so many years of being wrong,  misjudging her, not knowing she probably suffers from BPD. I have talked to a friend who is being very kind and supportive.  I haven’t told the friend everything but it’s the first time I have talked to someone besides this chat room. 

I read on

I want to help

I don’t know if I can

But I am going to try

Is it normal to feel sorry for myself?

   Hi iadafa, 
 
  I share MANY things with you & your story. My uBPDw of 36 yrs also have 2 young adults still living w us. During my Discovery days (2yrs) back I also couldn't bl how I couldn't have figured this CRAZY behavior out before then either. IT's so very much to take in and yes I felt so sorry for myself & my 2 sons. Sometimes I would drive to work  w Tears in my eyes thinking so much about it.
 
  In the past due to her binge drinking, shopping, spending I just thought that it was an Addiction issue, Ha who knew it was SO much more interesting & complicated    
  She has run way more times than I care to think about complete w affairs as well yet still somehow I still love her.
 

Thank you for sharing  with me.  I feel less alone.im sorry about what’s going on with your family. 

Today was just awful.  What she calls communication is a one sided shouting match.  She is brilliant in pointing out everything that I have not done “ perfectly”.  According to her I am at fault for everything that goes wrong in the household and between us.  My time between the 4 kids , work and her is limited.  I do my best to try to spend as much time as I can with each part of my life.  Some days I am so exhausted that I need to sleep during the afternoon to be able to function that evening or next day and that is bothering the heck out of her.  I only sleep when I can’t function anymore otherwise I’m afraid I might collapse.  I do nothing for myself.  Everything I do is to please her and take care of the kids.  IT IS NEVER ENOUGH.  She will come home and have a list of things to tell me that I should have done or I didn’t do. 

Shockingly few days ago in the middle of the night when I was tired and had a long day while finishing up the last chore of the day she said I don’t know what I would do without you.

What a life

 Hi iadafa,
  Sorry you had such a rough day.  Too many of them have actually made me physically ill. When is the last time you took a day or even 1/2 a day just for yourself ? Hang out with your friend, road trip to an event, visit somewhere you've never been. Recharge your reserves!   .  It will benefit the whole family in the long run.
I also practice yoga, meditation, walking & hiking in the woods.
 SELFCARE IS IMPORTANT !
 
  In regards to the " One sided shouting match" it's abuse on her part & you don't have to take it at all. Try warning her next time to lower her voice to a more pleasant tone or you will leave the room, house, whatever it takes till thing cool off and can be discussed later It didn't take more than a few x's using this tool in our house to end 95% of the Shouting, however you must walk if she calls your bluff.
After learning this tool I couldn't believe I subjected myself & sons to this abuse for all the past yrs.

  I also can do nothing right or good enough on a lot of days even though I'm gone from the house at work a min. of 9 hrs up to 13hrs a day 6 to 7 days a wk. while she can't drive (so no job) other then pet sitting out of our home.  I take it all in with a grain of salt & keep telling myself that is just her illness dealing w her very low self esteem by projecting how she feels about herself onto me & others in her life.
  It helps a lot once you're familiar w how their brain works compared to us nons.

  Keep your head up! NGY
 

I've been there.  I understand how natural it is to take care of yourself last when you have a BPD spouse and a handful of kids.  But it's unsustainable.  You have to take care of yourself.

How are you doing on sleep?  What time do you typically fall asleep?  Wake up?  Is your sleep interrupted in the middle of the night?  If so, do you spontaneously wake up, or does she wake you up?  When does she go to sleep?  Does she keep you up when you want to go to sleep?  If so, what does she do?

RC

The communication is so lacking that I try not to get in her face.  Sometimes when I  interrupt her screaming she just walks away and there is no communication for hours or days.  I try to use we anytime I can so as to not upset her.  I tell her we need to talk in a calm and soothing voice.  I tell her that we need to discuss things in a calmer format and this has been resonating more with her.  When I try to discuss a subject that we both need to be involved in for weeks she just says that I am the one who is avoiding it even though I have tried numerous times to address the issue.  She even tells other friends that I am always the one that avoids these discussions.  I just listen in anger and frustration.  People think she is an angel, and she is when she is out in public.  Today I have to make some changes and I’ll let you know how it goes.  I may have to make these changes with her or without her.  I have to put my foot down.

I like the idea of my time.  I’ll go walking, jogging or biking today.

I sleep fine at night.  Although the next day I hear all about what she had to go through the night while I was sleeping.  Making me feel,like s—it and guilty.  It’s like someone you love just pounding away at you constantly any chance she gets.  I know some of this is my fault.  It’s been going on so long and I haven’t done anything about it.

She gets stressed out and frustrated at the slightest change that I make but when she switches the schedule around and it’s a disaster she says oops. No apologies and not that I expect one from her but there is no remorse, she never does anything wrong.  I’m trying to take more responsibilities away from her and I told her so.  The less she has to deal with even though it’s not reality, the less frustrated she will be.  I can handle more things on my schedule so I will pile it on.

I read on

Thank you all for invaluable information and support

Hi iadfa,

It takes time to take this all in and then to work on incremental change in so many areas that are breaking down.

Keeping the focus on yourself is one way to help you feel you have more control of things. Letting go of the idea that you can change her behavior may feel very liberating actually!

Have you had a chance to look at the information on validation that I shared above and give it a try? It is something you can do regularly in your interactions. Initially I didn't realize how invalidating I could be. It was great to find that out!

Glad to hear you taking time away for exercise! That's super!

In terms of apologizing I know it hurts not to hear the words.

What are you saying you will take on in order to take pressure off her? What do you have in mind with this?

sincerely, pearl.

I understand that it is a long process.  It will take a lot of work. 

I was talking about taking away some of her household responsibilities so that she doesn’t get stressed out.

How do I continue and make things better when I don’t trust her or have faith in her.  She has in so many words told me the same over the years.  I understand it is a disease ‘ malfunction but if I don’t know the last time she has lied or the last time she has been unfaithful to me then what should my goal be?  I completely understand that this may be a very common dilemma that BPD partners go through but i feel like I am having a lot of trouble with it. 

I had another insight tonight.  I realized that we my be very incompatible because I show my “love” by touch and she feels love by feelings.

I am a very touchy type of person.  I demonstrate my love for her by embracing her, hugging and kissing and so forth.  She on the other hand states that she has to feel it. 

Any suggestions?

Hi iadfa,

In my experience a relationship may meet many, but not all of your needs and that is okay. It just depends on what needs are not being met that one at some point may find a relationship cannot continue. Are you starting to sense you may no longer be compatible?

What do you think she means by she has to feel it? Does she want more emotion from you? Does she want you to say things that would make her feel more connected to you? Does she see you as not emotional compared to her?

In terms of you not having trust or faith in each other... .are there specific reasons for this or is this just a general sense you both have? What has she lied about?

take care, pearl.

Have you read a book called Love Languages by Gary Chapman? It's a Christian book. He believes there are 5 Love languages and we all give and receive in different ways... .and it often relates to how we show disdain as well.

Words of Affirmation - Validation
Gifts
Acts of Service
Touch
Quality time

For me personally, I receive Love via words of affirmation and touch, however I attempt to gain this Love through acts of service. My wife on the other hand is allllllllllll about the words, she craves words of affirmation. Worth a read if you want to learn more about this. The family one is also good. Working out what your kids want to feel loved is very important.

Enabler

Hello iadfa,  boy can I relate to what you are experiencing.  I am also just learning about BPD and its' affect on my thirty year marriage.  I am just reading eggshells book.   Have to say sometimes I think the authors are talking about me in parts of the book.  Big problem for me is the mood swings and the blindsiding of some verbal attacks when I least expect it.  Trying to learn to never let my guard down.  Very stressful.  Thinking of you, 

Tired in MD

In terms of you not having trust or faith in each other... .are there specific reasons for this or is this just a general sense you both have? What has she lied about?


I am not sure why she has no trust in me.  I’m sure I’ve done things in the past that made her feel that way.  She has also told me that I should not have any faith in her when we talked about her infidelities.  She lies about things that are important to me.  I don’t even know how many people she has been with since we have been together!

I am not sure if I ever met her emotional needs except maybe when we first met.  I might have unconsciously given up.  After all,these years of trying to figure out what pleases her and not being able to consistently engage in a meaningful way I have become indifferent.  I have been drained of all energy, enthusiasm, happiness and that’s the truth.

Thank you enabler

I will add that to the list of books I will be reading.

I am glad you are doing OK on sleep.  While we're giving book recommendations, let me suggest The High Conflict Couple, by Fruzzetti.  He is a BPD expert, but does not talk about BPD in the book, so at least two members I know of shared it with their pwBPD (with mixed success).  It came to mind when you spoke of how difficult it is to have conversations with your wife.

One of the biggest challenges for us is to depersonalize and distance ourselves from some of the hurtful behavior without disengaging from the relationship.  What are some of the strategies you use to protect yourself from hurtful speech?  What kinds of things does she say?

WW

I have not obtained enough knowledge yet to be able to deal with hurtful speech.  I try not to react.  I tell her not to raise her voice and at this point in time that’s usually the end of the conversation.  Sometimes she says that she is not raising her voice but it sounds like screaming to me.  She also uses a lot of emotions when she gets loud so that adds to the intensity.  If I don’t say anything to stop it feels like getting run over by a tractor trailer. Now getting to the content of her speech is yet another story.  All the things she says have to do with making me feel guilty and not being present even though I am constantly present and helping out with the family.  She knows that and when I mention that to her she quiets down temporarily.  There are very rare moments when she is empathetic and states that I need to rest and had a long day which is so nice to hear knowing there is some aspect of real perspective in those statements.  There are statements of rejection mixed in there sometimes.  She tells me why are you here when I want to spend time with the kids or her?  She questions my intentions for just being present in her space. 

On and on it goes

You say she uses a lot of emotions when she gets loud.  Can you give us a recent example?

RC

It’s all related to her dysregulated emotions.  It includes guilt, shame and lack of self worth.  It translates into anger and rage.  She is disabled emotionally and I am learning more and more about it.  She gets overwhelmed easily.  She can’t problem solve.  She can’t do simple things that takes me 5 minutes to do. 

I have been venting a lot.

All the literature on the subject is opening up my eyes  with what has been going on with her.  Everything I read about BPD resonates except the self harm and suicide.  I haven’t seen or heard anything about suicide or self harm.


I am having a hard time accepting all of this.
I’m angry at times.  I get frustrated and sometimes infuriated.  I’m having a hard time detaching myself from the situation and depersonalizing.  I have to learn this coping tool quickly.

Hi iadfa,

This may be a more advanced tool, but it sounds like you are reaching for so I wanna share it with you: Radical Acceptance (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0)

Take your time and pace things. It takes time to change yourself so just imagine what it would be like for her to, ya know? Be patient with yourself! Keep talking with us, we're with you!

warmly, pearl.

Dear iadfa-
As other members have said, Sorry you’re here, but really glad you found us.  And I’m sorry you’re in so much pain.  This IS a very difficult situation; but the “knowing” and ability to give her behavior a name will begin to clarify things for you.  And confuse you.  And make you question yourself.  Try not to.  Now breathe... .

I can feel your anxiety in wanting to understand BPD NOW! Now breathe again... .

You’ve gotten solid and wonderful replies and the great people here are amazingly anxious to help you. 

I’m not sure if anyone said this, I don’t think so, but to a pwBPD (person with BPD) FEELINGS = FACTS.  That’s an important concept for you to understand.  And once you begin to understand that, it becomes a LOT easier to de-personalize the bad things she says to you - or screams AT you. 

You also seem to have an advantage in that once you raise the issue of her screaming, she stops... .is that correct?  And that could be a first step in setting boundaries.   She is no longer permitted to scream - at anyone about anything.  Ever.  At this point, especially with your precious 4 children being victims of her verbal abuse, perhaps you can look at the boundaries section.  I may be wrong, But when she instantly stops screaming, she MAY actually respond to this request.  If it’s a convenient time, you can invite her to talk privately in another room.  Or ask her out to dinner to discuss things.

Here is a true account:  my uBPFbf is like a tea kettle (VERY high functioning, great long-term job), with cruel intensely personal rages that nearly blew the hair off my head and emptied my soul.  I learned about BPD 3.5 years into our relationship. He fits all criteria except self-harm and infidelity (we’re too old for that?).  He HAD to blow pretty frequently.  Once I figured it all out,  learned some communication tools and began setting some boundaries, I had a talk with him about his rages.  I asked how he felt when the rages took place, and agreed it must “feel” so bad in his body when it happened.  He explained he couldn’t help it when it happened.  And I explained that I knew he  COULD control it at times, or he would NOT have been able to be so valued at work.  But told him I understood that every now and again he needed to empty his anger, so he had permission to do that.  BUT... .he had to warn me.  AND, he had to NOT make it personal and he was NOT ALLOWED to call me names.  And it worked for a good while.

I want to acknowledge that this is an overwhelming time for you.  Please go easy on yourself.  One step, and baby ones at that, at a time.  I think a part of self-care, could maybe be taking your kids on a little walk with just you.  Or maybe a trip to the ice cream shop.  And perhaps present it to your BPDw that you’d like her to have an hour just to herself for a nice warm, quiet soak in the tub.  Something like that.  And when with your kids, reinforce how much you love them.

Finally... .regarding any potential infidelities on her part.  If you can... .put it out of your mind for the time being.  I know, easy for me to say (but it’s not).  There ARE more important things to address right now.  When your BPDw senses your behavior changing (and she will), she may initially respond with some anger; but ignore it.  It’s unlikely she’ll respond by cheating.  At least how I see it... .because you’re MORE engaged.

Yep... .FEELINGS = FACTS.  A good thing to keep in mind.  And most of us are limping along, just like you.

Please keep posting.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

I am so grateful for all the incredible support from the crew.  I had to take a few days off to think on my own.  It didn’t help.  I feel so helpless because I feel like I have wasted all my energy all these years trying to be logical.  As I understand it now logic has nothing to do with what’s going on in my life.  I’ll spend the next few weeks and months trying to learn about all this and will read all of the suggested links and books.  I promised her dad I would take care of her and that I will do.  I am such a novice at this point and I realize that so I will work to get a better understanding of this so I can help her.  I know her better than anyone in this world and hopefully that will help along the way.  i Will never , ever give up on her.  I love her and always have.  I don’t care what she says or does to me.  I will move forward and hopefully gain some skills that will help me along the way.  She is like a confused child.  I will be her keeper.  All I can do is tell her that I am always here for her even if she rejects me for now.  If eternity was possible I would devote myself.  I am that dedicated to having her get better.  She means the world to me and I will pursue that dream for now.

Hi iadfa,

We understand - this is a lot to take in!

I want to kindly and gently invite you to keep spending some of your time here. A lot of this process that you are going through, learning about the illness and how to manage with it, you can pick up by reading and posting here regularly. It is a place for learning and to support your own healing and recovery.

It is admirable that you love her so much and are devoted to her, however please don't make yourself into a martyr or tolerate any kind of treatment that comes your way. That is not healthy for you. There are ways to be in a relationship with someone with mental illness, but preferably you would have some support in doing so, okay? This site could be one part of your support network if you allow it to be.

It does matter what she says and does to you, okay? You matter! Although you may be able to depersonalize the behaviors, I strongly encourage you not to tolerate any form of abuse. If you are ever abused it is important that you not become isolated and have outside sources of support - this can become very isolating. People here understand and have been there. It is imperative that you have a connection with others so you don't run the risk of losing touch with reality which can happen when you are with someone who has such strong emotions and sometimes even the ability to bend reality.

You can post conversations or situations you want to rethink or get some real time help with. There are lot of ways to benefit from this site as well as sharing and giving back to others via offering support. We are all teaching and learning from each other here.

Here is something to review:

Being An Emotional Caregiver (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=173897.0)

wishing you peace, pearl.

I continue to read and listen to a vast number of references as recommended.  It is extremely insightful.  I learn more each day about her and BPD.  It is helping me a lot to understand her behavior.  I am overwhelmed at times about the vast amount of information specially the parts that pertain to my relationship.  I think the validating is an enourmous help in my situation.  I have been critical and judging her and I have stopped that.  She cycles a lot during the day and the week.  It’s hard to keep up with her mood.  I’m also using validation with the kids and it is having a very positive effect.  As a matter of fact it is so effective that some of the kids feel like I’m the only decent parent.  She is noticing my conversations with them and for now she watches me.  I hope this doesn’t cause problems.  When difficult situations arise with the kids she wants me to deal with it so I’m glad this is positive for now

Hi!  It is good to know that positive changes are happening!  That is wonderful news.  Validation, and sometimes making sure you at least are not invalidating, is very powerful. 

*mod*

I am going to lock this thread as it has reached the post limit, but I do encourage you to start a new thread and perhaps focus on some of the behaviors you are still struggling with.  This was a great conversation so I hope you continue.