BPDFamily.com

Hello,

I would like to start by saying that this board has taught me a lot. It has made me think about my past, about myself and my interactions with others from new angles. It has given me a more positive look on the future: We have the freedom and the responsibility to make our own choices  and to focus on our own core values.
To all the members that make this board the welcoming and supportive place it truly is: thank you.

I am sorry I don’t often post on other threads. Many messages have struck a chord and I often feel like reaching out, but I seem to lack the words to bring it across. I realize I have picked up a lot of sub-optimal ways of communicating from my FOO. I am working hard on really listening and on validation at the moment. It has a clear effect on interactions with my children, which is the greatest motivator there can be to keep working and moving forward!
I am currently reading “I don’t have to make everything all better” by Gary and Joy Lundberg. I can recommend it to anyone struggling with FOG and validation. Are there any other members that have read this book? Please share your opinions and experiences!

Another issue I have been working on is my relationship with my mother.  I am now able to identify FOG and to avoid JADE most of the time. I also thought I had made real progress in setting boundaries and staying true to my own core values. Recently, I realized however that instead of setting boundaries, I have been focusing on avoidance - in almost every sense of the word:
- Keeping LC so as not to have to interact with my mother unless really necessary (it is so hard to use the tools around her, and I fear falling back into my old patterns).
- Avoiding any ‘real’ talking that requires my mother to actually hear what I am saying, show empathy or give validation.
- Still having difficulty standing my ground when we do interact. She still cuts me short and talks right over me without listening.
- Still avoiding having to say ‘no’ to even the simplest request, because I know it will be taken as a personal rejection and this will result in her lashing out eventually.
 
I am struggling with the current state of this relationship. Since I am no longer willing to function as her emotional outlet, I seem to have become invisible. I am a link between her and her grandchildren. There is no interest whatsoever in what is going on in my life. Though my brain says I should rejoice in no longer being a target for her dysfunction, my heart is struggling. I keep telling myself that I cannot expect more from her whilst I am the one that chose to keep LC. But it still hurts when I call her on her landline after a 2 week holiday to catch up, and after 5 minutes of her telling about her life, she says she has to hang up because my brother is calling her on her mobile. I know he still calls her every day, I know she considers him a far better son than I am a daughter. But it still hurts.

She has not once tried to really reach out to me, as an individual of any meaning in her life. But then, I have also been keeping my distance. Should I simply accept the role of facilitator between her and my children? Maybe this is all she is able to manage and I should simply accept that it is what it is?

Thank you for reading and sharing,
Libra.

 

 

Hi Libra.  It is good to see you again and it is great to see you reaching out and making so much progress.  This stuff is so hard to figure out and yet you keep plugging away.   

It is okay if you don't post on other threads but I don't want you to not post because you think you have nothing to say or can't say it the right way.  Take a leap with us.  There is no right way and your voice is important and it matters.

I have not read the book but I know it is fairly popular on this site.  Here is a link to a thread we have on it for anyone who wants more info:  “I don’t have to make everything all better” by Gary and Joy Lundberg. (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=128027.0;all)  I haven't had a chance to read the thread I just linked but I will try to as it sounds like a very interesting and helpful book. 

Good job figuring this out!  This is one of the hardest things to see and so many people miss it.

It is okay to limit contact on days when you are feeling more vulnerable (for whatever reason) but avoidance as a whole is usually not a good way to heal and learn to define yourself for who you are not what your mother may think or how she sees you.   It takes a lot of energy and time to build new ways of interacting but every time you say no, it is a step in the right direction.    Build on your success.  Over time, you will feel stronger.  I think you are doing a great job with all of this.  It is hard, painful work.

The way your mother is responding to your changing your own behavior is not uncommon.  I am sorry she is reacting this way and that she still can't see you for who you are and can only see her own needs.  It hurts because it is hurtful.  Remember too you are dealing with a loss of more than the relationship you had.  You are also learning to deal with the loss of the responsibility and almost purpose you had in taking care of her.  It is a lot of change and a lot to grieve.  Yes, it is a relief but it is a loss as well.   Your mother will be drawn to your brother who has remained steady in his relationship with her.  He is not changing things and making her feel uncomfortable or threatened with loss of her self so of course she is going to think he is better.  Remember, as much as it hurts, and rightly so, she can't even see you.  Only her own needs and filters that distort her vision.

Allow yourself to grieve.  It is okay to feel sad.  It is okay to feel whatever you feel. 

 

 :hi: Libra, I am so glad to see you posting again.

These are questions only you can answer and it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. You can tweak it whenever you need to. All this said, I do recommend caution in allowing her lengthy unsupervised access to your children. If she has little respect for you as a person, imagine what she may say or do to undermine you as a parent and just generally inappropriate sharing? I learned this the hard way. Your experience my be different from mine. Your mother is a different person from mine. She may be totally fine with your kids.

I just wish I would have known then what I know now. I would have made different decisions.

Grieving the loss of the loving mother we never had is a lifelong journey to learning how to mother-nurture ourselves. We are worthy of love and nurture.

  sending you gentle hugs and smiles,

  L2T

Harri,

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words. They always help me refocus and keep me on track to a better self. I hope you can use the same kind and supportive words for yourself in difficult times. 

I don't think I have actually said a clear and concise 'no' to her yet. I just haven't given her the chance to really ask me anything I would have to refuse. I know this is not a solution. I am working on communication and boundaries within my family unit first, where I feel safe and loved. As you said, I am happy I realize this now, and I will keep working, on and forward to the next step!

Thank you for voicing this. Just reading someone else saying this helps me realize that it is not about me and who I am, but because of her and who SHE is. It somehow helped make the link from an intellectual to an emotional level.

This is so true! Changing these dynamics makes you feel so empty at times. It is not easy to fill up this void with other, healthier purposes and feelings. Even healing from some childhood hurt that had drifted into consciousness left me feeling empty: the hurt I had been carrying along was suddenly gone, and I felt incomplete somehow. It took me a while to heal up the gaping hole it had left.

L2T,
Thank you for your support and concern. Although you are grieving, you continue offering support to others on this board. I am so sorry for the loss of your pup. You are strong and caring and worthy of so much love! 

My mother was never physically abusive, violent or neglectful. She is emotionally deficient at many levels. I know that much of it is due to her own traumatic childhood. I am quite sure she does not hurt intentionally, but rather projects and uses others to regulate her emotions.
I do always gauge my childrens' emotional wellbeing when they get home. Up to now they are really happy to go visit her and do not seem troubled. I may be wrong of course, which is something that keeps nagging at the back of my mind. I am more worried though for when the children hit their teens. When they start detaching. That's when the sh*t hit the fan in my childhood (pardon my French). But I hope by then I will be able to walk beside them and help them set boundaries. Could this not be a way for them to learn healthy interactions and boundaries? Or is it too close to home for that?


I think currently I am grieving the loss of my brother. I only recently accepted that I have not really had a brother for years now. When my parents divorced (in my teens), he took on a parental role, as well as becoming my moms emotional regulator. He couldn't handle it for long though. Got himself into a very unhealthy relationship (caretaker to a very egocentric partner) and moved out. That's when my mum really started falling apart emotionally. Or when I started to notice, because the burden was now on me. I lost my brother in those years. He is 4 years older. I remember playing games with him and the neighborhood kids in the fields behind our last house. He would be Rambo, and he'd come rescue us from an enemy camp.
Wow... .tears welling up now. I really do miss having a brother... .

Libra.

Hello Libra.  It is always good to see you here.   

This made me smile: "I will keep working, on and forward to the next step!"  I love the determination and anticipation of making progress.  How has you family been reacting to you setting boundaries and saying no?

Exactly.  Giving up the old hurts and behaviors is so dang hard and that empty feeling is, I think, why a lot of people stop working.  It hurts. 

I am so sorry to hear about your brother.  It hurts doesn't it?  I am lucky in that both my brother and I are determined to stay together in some ways.  It is not a typical brother sister relationship but at least we like each other now.  It wasn't always that way and my mother did her best to turn us against each other.  I do miss hanging out with him.  We used to have fun when we were young kids and I worshipped my older brother.  he took care of me too.  I talked about the relationship with my T and she said it was not surprising how we are given the abuse.  In her words, "there is too much history there".  That hurts but i am at a place of peace with it (mostly).

What do you miss the most about yours?

Hello Harri,

Thank you for your warm welcome and encouragement. 

Funny that…it actually works!
DH has complimented me a few times on how I handled some interactions. He was impressed. That made me feel proud... .which is a very special feeling for me!
At other – more frequent - times he tries to gently redirect me when I 'react' instead of 'interact'. That is harder to deal with. It makes me feel like a failure.
I am not a failure, I  KNOW that … nevertheless,  I still sometimes FEEL like a failure.
The children are masterminds in guilt-tripping and pleading. I used to get all defensive. I now try to validate but hold firm. It’s not easy, but it is a lot healthier!
I need to learn to use these tools when under stress or *attack*. But my mind turns into jelly at times like that. Work in progress…

I looked up to him in so many ways. He was always there. Very constant and reliable. No judging.
We were in the same boat together. We moved house a lot. From when I was  2 to 12 years old, we lived in 4 different countries and 7 different houses. We went to 6 different schools in 4 different languages. We always got thrown into new classes halfway the scholarly year.
I did not have any other family or real friends until I was 12. Everything evolved around our little family unit: my workaholic and alcoholic father, my mom, whom I now suspect has BPD traits, my older, steady brother and frail, clumsy, timid me.
In my teens my father disappeared from the scene and my brother moved out soon after. I very much regret having turned to him every time when my mom had one of her rages. I unwittingly pulled him into a Karpman triangle, thereby confirming the responsibility he deemed he had to take up when our father had left. I can see this now. I can also see how and why he ended up in so many unhealthy relationships. 
We cannot have a real adult conversation. He has built a wall of humor and ridicule. He uses this with our mother as well, with great success. He is a fortified, impenetrable fortress. I just wish we could talk, share emotions, experiences, memories. I hope he has found peace and happiness.
I don’t really have any childhood memories from before I was 8 years old. All I have are photographs, and the stories my mother used to tell. But I now know very well that she tends to change reality to fit her own truths, so my whole childhood feels as if it is built on quicksand.

Sorry.
Thanks for letting me vent.

Libra.

  Good!

Fortunately, feelings do not equal facts right?  It is way to easy to focus on the negatives.  When I used to work, part of my job was training people to use new equipment, equipment they did not want and did not like... .but it improved their lives.  I would send them home after training and tell them when they came back I wanted them to have three positive things to tell me.  I knew the negatives would come too but I also knew if they did not notice positive stuff they did not do what I wanted them to do... .which was try.

So anyway, all that to say I think you might benefit by writing down how many times saying no or setting a boundary worked for you.  Don't keep track of the negatives for now, you are doing *that* without even trying.  Focus on the successes.  Then maybe once a week/month go back and look at your list.  I think Woolspinner actually wrote stuff (compliments I think) on a piece of paper and kept them in a jar (... .and all of a sudden I am hearing the Beatles singing Eleanor Rigby).  Sorry.

Kids really are little psychopaths aren't they?   <--- just kidding.  I love kids but they are tough.

You may not be able to see your progress, but I can. 

You did what you knew.  It is hard though and sad.  I know I did things with my brother that were not healthy and even mean.  I apologized to him once as an adult.  I still cry when I think of all he had to deal with and how I was with him.  He was cool with it, but like me he has some ongoing issues that will always be there.   

After I read this earlier I had to just sit with it.  Have you ever said "I am sorry for how you were treated as a kid?"  I said that to my brother once and he said he was treated just fine.  I had/have to accept it.  He gets to choose his own path and that may or may not include seeing how his childhood was and how it still affects him today.

I know this too.  Not knowing what is truth or distortions and delusions or manipulations.  The funny thing is that memories have been returning.  Not traumatic ones, but times that were fun and dare I say normal.  The games we would play as kids, stuff from school.  all stuff that was completely blank up until recently.  I keep forgetting to ask my T why that is happening. 

Wait.  You're sorry for having a good conversation and sharing?  Don't be sorry.  I am grateful.  thank you for sharing! 

You have a talent Harri, a talent for encouraging people to turn their heads and minds in the right direction, towards the light. You do that here on these boards as well.
It makes me sad to know that your family did not see this. I hope YOU can see this now. 

That is an excellent idea. I will try to implement it.
Times are really hectic at the moment. I sometimes wonder how people on this board manage to find the time and headspace to work and heal. For me, it is a struggle. But I know it is important and I know that if I can learn and heal, it will also benefit the ones I care about most. Thankfully, that motivates me enough to  keep finding snippets of time to work on this stuff.

You should be sorry too…that tune was stuck in my head all day! 
Such a sad song though…

They are though! 
It is amazing how savvy they can be. It makes me wonder where that savviness goes when growing up.

Honestly? The only times we have talked directly (on the ‘phone) in the last 5 years or so is when I called him after one of our mothers rages. He lives abroad. I tried to keep in touch with him initially, via mail, phone, text. I tried everything. But I never got any feedback. Mostly I didn’t even get a reply. So I stopped trying. He has had many difficult relationships. I think he still sees me as his little Sis that needs to be protected, not burdened with emotions. He sees me as an extra emotional burden to carry, and he has enough on his plate as is.
I remember the day I learnt my parents were (finally) divorcing. I had just arrived home from holiday work in a horse ranch (my escape-route in my teens). My mom and brother were waiting for me in the kitchen, which was strange, because my brother didn’t live at home anymore and never came visiting. My mom told me the news, and my brother gave me a huge hug. He had NEVER done that before. Were they expecting me to crumble emotionally? I still don’t get why. My parents’ relationship had been a nightmare for years. I was more relieved than anything else. Writing this now, I realize I may have had this the wrong way round. Maybe he was the one that needed the hug. He was on her side of the divide now. I very clearly remember feeling shut out. Seeing them as a team, and me on the outside. Maybe that’s where I lost him as a brother.


How do you feel about these memories? Can you accept them at face value?

Thank you Harri. Thank you for showing me that talking about myself can be an acceptable conversation, and does not always have to be seen as selfish self-pity. 

Libra

Hi Libra!  sorry for the delay in response.  Sometimes life smacks me upside the head! 

Thank you for your kindness Libra.  I am starting to see that I do have some good qualities and even some that people like so that is progress.  Besides, who am I to tell someone they are wrong?    But thank you.  I think my family saw some good things in me but the focus was more on the negative.  That mixed in with my mothers psychotic episodes due to presumed and untreated schizophrenia and BPD made life interesting, the same as everyone here. 

It is easy for me as my life is pretty simple in many ways.  I know other people who are very busy but still post here and I think it is a combination of things that drives them.  Like you, the people here are determined to do better, to change and overcome decades of behavior.  It is quite inspiring and wonderful to see.

Have you started writing things down yet?  You can call it your 'Evidence of my Awesomeness' or something equally modest and unassuming... .

I get this.  My brother is the same way with me though he was extremely controlling before.  It has gotten better since we had a few conversations (read, I lost my cool and told him off not so nicely several years back), but his role of older protective brother is still there.  I can see it in his eyes and hear it in his tone.  Part of it is his care for me and I love that about him but most of it is his issues coming out.  I have to let him be and still be me.  He is always telling me to relax and not to worry... .even when I am doing no such thing (and would not tell him even if I were). 

I think you nailed it when you said he probably needed the hug for himself.  That is very insightful.  I can see where a change like that would put a wedge between you a feeling where he felt the need to pick sides and where you felt left behind.  That hurts.

I am okay with the memories.  They are bittersweet.  I like remembering the good stuff and that there was quite a lot of it.  I have to accept that things were set up in such a way that I never really had a chance to have more typical life experiences as a whole.  I had bits of it though and for that I am grateful.  My past is not all scary and while i knew it on some level I did wonder if I was minimizing the bad as I would say but I had some very good things happen to me to and my T's would look at me like I was crazy.   Take that!  I did not have huge stretches of good but I had some.  Damn it.

Libra, your voice is important and you add value to this board and my time here.  Don't stop sharing.  You are not selfish.  When you share yourself you are a gift.

Hi Harri,

Talking about delay in response... .

I haven't... .and knowing me, I won't if someone doesn't keep shoving it under my nose... .why bother writing positive things about yourself, right?

Maybe I should call it the Hopeful Analysis Regarding Reaction & Interaction.
Sorry for going overboard... .

Darn right you did... .and you had the absolute right to a whole lot more!
I am glad you can look back at some goodness as well. 

Libra.

I love this, Libra! 

L2T

Libra!  Whatever works... . 

This is me shoving it under your nose ---> __________

Just do it!     Or you can write them here! 

(I wish I knew how to insert pictures... .)

Harri,

Ouch!
And thank you.
I will try to start my Harri-book, full of positivity, tomorrow (it's evening here).

You have made me VERY curious about that picture... .

Libra.

Why did I write this about myself? This is not who I am. This is how my mother saw me as a child.
I know better now.

I read a good quote a while back:
My mother does not live in my head, she lives in her head.
Unfortunately, I forgot where I read it.

The last 2 years before my mothers' last rage in January, she used to - very frequently - tell me:
"You know, if I could start all over, I would never ever have children again. I am just not made for kids."
She would say this whilst sitting in our garden, sipping her coffee, watching her grandchildren.
=> I am SO grateful for the love and joy my children give me day to day (corny, I know).
They can be a real pain, but the pros so outdo the cons!

Here's another one she frequently used: "I feel a failure as a mother because your house is such an absolute mess."
=>I am proud of my messy home... .spending time with my family is far more important than having a perfectly clean house!

Rambling here... .need to get some stuff out... .

Libra.

Congratulations.  You are well on your way to self differentiation!    Being able to be you without her bias and filters distorting your vision of you is wonderful and so important.  You are beginning to take your power back (cue inspiring music again!) and you are getting stronger and stronger. 

Let it out.  I process while writing and find it so helpful.

Plus, I love seeing you work things through.

Keep going strong, Libra! You are doing this! 

 
Wools

All this talking of brothers has brought some stuff back to the foreground. I don't know how relevant they are, and I have no other place right now to process this, so I'll just put them here. (I do NOT want them in my positive Harri book!)

This goes back to when I was about 14.

We had been back in our country of origin for a year when my brother returned to our previous country to visit his friends (contrarily to me, he had actually made some really good friends there). He had had a really hard time adjusting and he missed his old mates. He was 18. I have no idea how long he was gone for, but it must have been at least 2 weeks. It was a 12 hour flight, so you wouldn't go there for the weekend.
Just before my brother left, dad got home very late and very drunk. As per usual, mum woke me up and told me to go sleep at dads side of the bed, and dad slumped into my bed. As per usual as well, my mattress got put out in the sun to dry the next day because dad had peed all over it. I hated this. This was the mattress I would have to sleep on in a couple of hours.
There must have been tension. Words must have been spoken. But I don't remember. I do remember that, one day shortly after, when my brother was on his trip, mum sat the two of us down in the living room and gave a speech. She did not want to continue this way. She wanted a divorce. She had it all planned: they would buy her a flat in town, close to our schools. After school, we could go to her, do our  homework, and have dinner. And dad could come get us there and we could spend the evenings and weekends with him,  in the house. 
I don't remember anything being said in reaction. I know I stormed up to my room. I was angry and very confused. Not about the divorce, but about the arrangement. I did NOT want to spend every evening with that drunk man who called himself our father. My mother had spent years despising him. I did not (no longer?) know him, except through the eyes of my mother. I was angry at my mother too for deciding over all our fates like that. I also felt guilty for being angry, heartless and selfish.
At that point dad came into my room. He crawled onto the bed next to me, curled up against me like a child, held me tight and started weeping. He reeked of alcohol and cigarettes. I was fuming inside. But I didn't move, and I let him weep. I don't remember anything more than that.
Mum didn't leave, of course. She was just as stuck in that relationship as dad was. We never talked about it again, and onto this day my brother doesn't even know this happened.
He came home from his trip even more disillusioned and displaced. He and his friends had grown apart. I think he felt lost and alone. So did I, at that point.

I think I am still angry at the both of them.

Thank you again for letting me vent.

Libra.

I am sorry he used you to comfort himself and that your mother allowed that to happen.  It is an emotional violation and put you in a position you never should have been placed in.  I am so sorry that they did that to you. 

The split in custody time that was suggested is interesting to say the least.  What do you think it says about your parents?  Just even discussing something like that with you at that time was inappropriate and wrong.

How familiar are you with parentification and emotional incest?

I am glad you shared.  You are not alone in these types of experiences unfortunately so know it is safe to share and many of us can relate.  We've got ya.

Harri,

Thank you for listening.


My mother thought she had all our needs covered if we were clothed, fed and did our homework.
In the evenings and weekends we could function as a regulator for our father, to avoid him feeling too lonely, and to try and stem his drinking.
It fits with their plans a few years later: my father was living abroad for work again, and my mother planned on joining him as soon as I had turned 18, because then we could fend for ourselves.
Only my mother found out he was having an affair over there, and that was the last drop. She finally set a divorce in motion.

This is getting beyond confusing. I have been focusing on my relationship with my mother as it has been since my parents separated. It includes rages, tons of FOG, and a very clear feeling of never being good enough.This memory does not carry the same dynamics at all. I remember my mother being composed. No yelling, rather icy self control. How do you rime those 2 mothers? It makes me think my mind is playing tricks on me.

I do know that she saw herself as a victim in all this. She has problems with abandonment and shame, stemming from her own childhood (much like your mothers', with some nasty edges on it).
To her that affair was a real betrayal. She told me that she had sacrificed her whole self for her family, and it had all been taken away for good sex with a young gal. She told me she had consciously married someone ugly, thinking he would less likely betray her. I could go on... .I fear I'm a bit brainwashed when it comes down to my father... .
(And now I feel like I'm trying to justify their behaviour again)

I have read a bit about it here. I still have difficulty discerning between the two.

Again, thank you for listening.

Libra.

How are you doing today Libra?

Sounds like your mother did what is expected and required to keep CPS away (child protective services).  I word it that way not because I think it is wrong or was the reason she took care of your basic needs but to put this into perspective.  What else is an important part of you being a parent to your daughter?  You take care of her emotionally, mentally and make sure she knows what she will need to know to function as an independent adult.  Basic needs are good, but that is not enough to say you were not abused.

Your mom was all of those things Libra it is just certain things were more prominent at different times.  It is not uncommon for a person to become very angry and raging after a failed marriage... .but usually an emotionally healthy person will be able to work through it and not share inappropriately with their kids or be abusive about it.

I can see why it would be confusing, seeing the two extremes and why you would feel like your mind is playing tricks on you.  It is a lot to take in but your perspective is changing as your knowledge, understand and healing is taking off.  As hard as it is, it is good.  I hate that feeling that my world has been shook up though.

Take it slow and just Be for a little while.

 

Hi Harri,

I am doing fine really, thank you for asking. 

Memories are a strange things. Some small trifle resurfacing can hurt really badly, but writing down these memories and conclusions did nothing, emotionally.

Which again makes me think my mind is playing tricks on me.

Maybe I am still struggling with acceptance. But then, maybe I do not need complete acceptance to continue to move forward?

I have a lot of positive things to process and strive for thanks to this board. I am trying to focus on them for the time being.

The only snag is that my mother is back home after a 3-week holiday, and a little voice is telling me I should give her a call. It's a tiny voice compared to what it used to be, but it's still there... .

But enough about me... .how are YOU doing today, Harri? 

I am doing very well thank you.   

Yes, you do not need complete acceptance to move forward.  Sometimes just acknowledging something is can be enough (thanks for that wisdom Kwamina!) and remember, acceptance is a process and sometimes needs to be repeated over and over.  It is a choice.

I am glad the voice is smaller!  That is good.  Do you *want* to call your mother?

Take care

*want*? Heck no, that has nothing whatsoever to do with it! 

I think it isn't out of fear or guilt (stated with absolute certainty and peace of mind ... .not). More out of a sense of duty (or is that the same as obligation?).
I don't feel the need to catch up, hear how she's doing  or hear how good or bad the food and the weather were. (I know,  how cold and callous of me for not caring about my mother... .).
She'll be in the country for 3 weeks, then she's off again on her next trip.
That's the last one of the year though, and then it's her birthday, S7s birthday, Christmass, New Year... .a lot of stressful days with a lot of expectations coming up.

I know now that my mother and I do not share a bond. That's just the way it is.
We have frequently used each other the past years. Yes, I say we. Though the scales are clearly tipping over to her side, I have leaned on her a few times as well.
I am not proud of this, it feels like abusing an unstable person. But I cannot change the past, I can only learn from it and try to do better in the future.

At this point in my life I think it may be healthy for me not to cut her off completely, but instead to learn healthy boundaries with her and to stand up for myself. I don't want to isolate her further. That feels too much like a punishment and does not go down well with my own set of values. I do not want to break her contact with the children. I am thinking more and more though that I will no longer let her have much - if any - alone-time with them. That will cost me dearly in effort: one babysit less (one of the ways I have 'used' her), and more time investment from me to keep them in touch with each other.

This all sounds so clear and easy   But these changes will cause great distress, and I suspect she will not be able to self-regulate. So it still isn't easy to do and not just tuck in my tail and fall into old patterns instead.

So, imagine for a minute that I actually DO stand up for myself. What would that entail?
It would mean that I do not let her talk right over me OR my children. Not in my own house. Not anywhere, actually.
I guess that's where boundaries come into play, right?
Ha. Well. I should then calmly turn to my mother, telling her in a non-defensive tone: "Mum, I know you don't always hear everything I say, though that has improved greatly thanks to your new hearing aids. I would really appreciate it though if you were to let me finish my sentences when I am talking." (and then bite my tongue and not add "It would be even nicer if you would actually hear what I am saying." )

Really? That just won't happen, will it? It's all so easy in theory, but - honestly - I cannot even begin to think about saying that to her face.

And there we go, back on the merry-go-round. 

I feel like a cold-hearted, calculated non-human for reasoning like this. But I am starting to believe that this is the only way I can keep any sort of contact with my mother.

Libra.

   Hi.

Duty and obligation might be the same.  It is hard to tell.  Are you thinking about this in terms of FOG?  Sometimes i think we get too caught up in the FOG article.  Fear, guilt, obligation... .they require our active participation to work as emotional blackmail though I think they can exist on their own (as in without being part of FOG)

Take them one at a time and work them out here.  We've got ya.

I don't think it is cold and callous to not want to catch up with your mother.  it is honest.  It would cross into cold and callous if you shared those feelings with her in a blunt and cruel way but you are not doing that.  Feelings just are and it is okay to not want to talk with her.

This is an honest and brave admission and I think, more common than you might believe.  Usually there is an equal give and take but the price that comes with it is not worth it in many of these situations.  Now you can make better decisions.

I think this is a good choice for you as it will help you build skills and more importantly allow you to be true to your own values.  Nothing is decided forever though.  I made a choice with each and every interaction I had with my family, knowing I could end contact if I chose.  I think you are being wise and cautious.  I agree that no alone time with your kids is important though I can see where it would be very hard to do.

Keep working on it and build on your successes.  It is hard but it gets easier in time.

This would be a skill you build up to.  It is not going to happen in one encounter.  Before i could be kind about it, I yelled, fought, caved in, etc.  Some battles just were not worth it.  It is a process.

Is it cold and calculating?  or is it changing a life time of patters and brainwashing (for lack of a better word)?  Our definition of kindness, generosity, family, helping, all of those need to be re-evaluated.

It is hard but good stuff to work on.

How's that Harri book coming?  though I think you should go with Liberating Independent Bold Rational Assertions would be a better name!

Hi!  :hi:
 
That is exactly what I mean. Can duty be just duty, without it being induced by FOG? I think it can. I think it can be a clear choice you make for yourself: wheighing the pros and cons and adding your own values in the mix.

Thank you, Harri. I keep forgetting that feelings just are. My T also kept coming back to this point: the difference between judgment and facts. Everything over-/hyper-/super-… is a judgment, not a fact. Though judgments can be heavily influenced by our upbringing, our social network, etc…they are a personal interpretation. They should not be treated as facts.

Yes. I need to remember that commitment is not written in stone. It is a continuous process of evaluation and choice. The trick is to keep an overall view and not get sucked into FOG and judgments. And to stay true to your own self and your values. Piece of cake! 

I know…the fall, get up and start over thingy again. Not my strongest point….I am too impatient and self-critical and want to get it right from before the start... .sigh... .

How do you determine which battles aren’t worth it, without undermining your own self? My current state of mind makes me hypersensitive (judgment!) to everything my mother might say. I sometimes feel I'm overstretching, looking for things that aren't there. I'm struggling with finding the right balance in not being 'run over', and accepting my mother as the imperfect human being she is (and others as well, at that).

I keep thinking of Pam LetGos thread regarding this:
I need to find a balance between boundaries to protect my own self and my values, and simply accepting that some things are the way they are. I cannot expect to suddenly have a loving, emphatic mother. So where do I go from here? What is acceptable to me? And how do I combine this with staying vigilant for when the downward spiral starts again?

Maybe not. Maybe objective is a better word. The problem is that this does not take other peoples’ expectations into account, and so it can create disappointment, which can then be projected back and leave you to deal with other peoples’ feelings. Makes me end up thinking in circles, that!

It is all in my head, I swear! Not on paper yet though... .spending more time here... .one has to make choices you know... .
I shall call it my Liberating Independent Bold Rational  Hopeful Assertions Regarding Reaction & Interaction. English is not my native tongue, so I'm allowed a typo here and there   
 
Thank you Harri, for breaking down my ‘all-over-the-place’ posts and thinking them through with me. 

Libra.

So,
Childhood Emoitonal Neglect: 92
HSP: 84 (Skip moved this to the son/daughter board because I mentioned D9?)
Inner Critic: 7

I know these are but numbers, but labels. But I am the kind of person that needs those kind of 'factuals' to process/start accept something.
I am having a hard time processing these numbers.
I did these tests on Friday afternoon. Afterwards, I wanted to isolate. To curl up in a dark room and think things through. I was making all kinds of links between my current life and way of handling things and my childhood. I was also almost crumbling.

But I could not crumble. I had to go fetch the children. An hour later our closest friends (members of DHs' healthy extended family) would be at our doorstep with their 3 children. They would be staying the whole weekend. In a moment of goodwill I had suggested meeting up with my mother and the children on Monday for lunch and a walk in a park. She was texting me non-stop because she thought the park might be closed. 

So... .instead of turning inward and trying to make sense of all that was bubbling up, I shut down. I went back to a state that I know very well: no emotions, no self-pity. Everything will run smoothly and no-one will notice anything's amiss.  No-one will get me down dammit... .I will not be beaten down by emotions!

It is the first time I am conscious of this process. I could actually feel my jaw clench while driving home. I could feel all emotion being shoved away.
I am not happy with this. People around me are laughing and having fun. I am sitting with them, looking in. Why can they simply have fun? I want to be on their side. I do not want to be locked up in this quiet, dark pond.

I will try to get pull myself out of this next week, when I have room for self-reflection.

Meanwhile, the show will go on.

Libra.

Hi Libra :hi:

When you are ready for it, maybe we can help you process this together.


Why do you think you are having such a hard time processing these numbers? What do these numbers tell you? Do you perhaps feel like you've maybe been in denial about the severity of what you've been through?


Could you tell us a bit more about the links you were making? In what ways do you believe your childhood has affected how you handle things now in your adult life?

When you say 'almost crumbling', do you mean that you felt like this was too much too handle/process right now?


This sounds like a coping mechanism you might have developed during childhood to help you get through the difficult situations. Would you say this is an accurate assessment? When was the last time you remember going into this 'emotionless' state?


This awareness I consider a good thing. We cannot change what we do not see and do not acknowledge. You however, actually are able to recognize what is going on and that is the first step in being able to make a change. Can you think of other things you could do to cope instead of shoving your emotions away?

How does the thought of sitting with and through your emotions make you feel?

Take care

The Analytic Board Parrot (yeah I know, I ask a lot of questions, but that's just the Way of the Parrot)

Hi Libra.

I agree.  I think it is good that you can see this choice as being a part of you and your values rather than being a victim of sorts of the manipulations of others.

. I never heard this before.  Thank you for sharing this.  

Excellent question.  I think the answer will come with more separation and self awareness.  Just knowing we may be over-reacting and stepping into our BPDs personal issues or territory is a good thing.  
Where do you go?  You keep forging ahead, while watching, learning and detaching more and more.  I think it is common for us to at first be too strict with boundaries and fiercely defending them to the point of causing more problems sometimes or seeing things that are not there.  We learn, and while our values that determine our boundaries may not change, how we choose to enforce our boundaries can change with time and practice.  Detaching with love and kindness takes practice.  It is something I was not able to achieve before my parents died but I have come closer now... .working in my mind and my heart.  I am angry still, very much so, but far more accepting and able to see them for who they are much more clearly.  It is easier for me though as they can no longer hurt me.  But detaching with love and kindness is still possible sometimes.  Is that what you are striving for?  That is what I see in Pam Letgo's comments.

Does it leave you with their feelings to deal with?  Isn't that crossing over into their space and getting on their side of the street?  We can't live according to another persons projections... .

Libra, the numbers for your assessment just are.  I retook both of them and got different numbers this time around.  I actually scored higher on the highly sensitive one this time!  They are just an overview.  It is perfectly okay for your brain to say Nope, not gonna do this now and give yourself a rest.  

I am very glad Kwamina stepped in and asked such great questions.  We can definitely work together to process this.  BTW, he has a way of digging into the heart of the issue and helping us focus so when you can, see what his comments and questions bring up for you.  In the meantime, we've got you, always.  

Hi Libra,  :hi:

I'm popping in to say hi.   

You remind me of myself so much and this process of unentangling from all the stuff of growing up with a BPD parent. It's painful pulling off all those briars from the bushes that stick to us in places we can't even see until we brush up against them and find the prickers deeply embedded in our clothing fibers and poking through to our tender skin. The remnants refuse to come out. Our lives are so much like this picture. We can sense the irritation yet cannot locate just where the poking is exactly. Darn work to heal anyway, right? But the desire to be better, to be whole drives us on, and I am so thankful for that for myself and also for you!   It's the resilience and determination that we have to survive. You are a survivor!

When I feel like running away and hiding, I've finally learned to see which one of my inner kids is hiding. For sure someone is, and quite often it is my 5 year old Lil' Wools. It's me when I was that age (or around that age), not being heard or getting in trouble or being shamed. Typically when she is really upset, I find her hiding in the back corner of the dark closet in my childhood bedroom, hoping her uBPDm will not find her. She is also hiding from the shame she feels because her mom just unloaded on her-parallel feelings in the present from a shaming incident that took place with someone, which then triggers those same emotions that I had when I was Lil' Wools.

Can you relate? What place and age does this time of emotional retreat take you to in your own life?

My Lil' Wools usually needs a hug or quiet company when I discover that she is feeling scared and alone.

 
Wools

Libra,
I just wanted to thank you for your post. It has helped me realize that my going LC with my family members with BPD has resulted in my becoming more and more invisible, as I am no longer serving as the target for their projections, and I am not the convenient emotional regulator I once was.

Libra wrote:

Libra,   I don’t have any specific advice for you at the moment.  But, I want you to know I can identify and empathize with every bit of what you wrote above.

I encourage you to stay with this. Keep digging and chipping away. Some of it is really hard, but we are here for you. We can listen and support and encourage you.

Most of all, I want to tell you that you are worthy of this work, time and effort.

Sending you gentle hugs and soft, understanding smiles,

L2T

Hi,

Thank you all for your replies.
Your support is so real and helps me come back and strive for better every time.

I will not be able to reply to all today (bed-time here), but I will be back... .

 
Libra.

Hello Kwamina,

I am ready.

Yes, I have been in denial. I have often felt like an impostor on these boards: yes, I had issues, and yes, I could certainly learn a lot here, but I did not realize/accept that I had actually suffered any real abuse. How can you suffer from something that isn't even there? And how can you carry that all the way into your adult life? It took those numbers and reading about it (www.pete-walker.com/pdf/emotionalNeglectComplexPTSD.pdf) to understand that I have reasons to be so messed up and that they are not simply all my fault.

I've shut them down so well it's hard to recall now. I'm probably still holding back, not wanting to get the whole thing started again... .I'll try... .I'm just going to type and hit the post button afterwards. I think I'll edit everything out otherwise if I re-read... .

I realized I have never really believed in my own capabilities. It started as a young child: I was never allowed to help my brother set the table, or do other chores, because I was "way too clumsy and would just break stuff again". In all the schools I went to, teachers kept telling my mother how good and bright a student I was, how I helped other kids. My mothers reaction was always "well, that's not the daughter I know from home", and that was that. When I started failing tests in middle school because I just wasn't putting in any work, my mother let me change to easier subjects, "because I'd never amount to a good student anyhow". This perpetuates in the here and now: every job I've done they've been highly satisfied with my work. They always expected me to evolve into a project leader. I have the people skills, I have the knowledge... .and I never realize my own potential. I procrastinate until right before a deadline, I sabotage myself, losing valuable time doing NOTHING and feeling WORTHLESS, not being able to push myself forward unless under severe time limits and stress.

This may be inappropriate here - I apologize - but  I need to get this stuff out. I masturbated from a very young age. Based on the house and furniture, I estimate I was 8 or 9. I used it purely as an emotional vent. To feel something. I always made up stories that I was being punished. I often hurt myself as well. To feel. This continued right up into adulthood. I could only masturbate as a 'punishment', but I needed it to be able to connect with my self, my feelings. And it made me feel guilty and dirty.

I have never dreamed a lot. The only dreams I ever remember where about my 'safe place' as a teen (a ranch where I used to go work in the holidays and weekends).  Even as an adult, these were always the only dreams I had. It is only in the last year since I've started looking into myself, that I have been able to have other dreams. The most recent dream was Friday night. For the first time I dreamed about my mother. The conclusion I had in the dream was that I couldn't count on her, that I could never count on her. This is new territory, but it feels like a step forward to me... .

Yes. I needed to stay functional. I could not go sit somewhere quietly to think things over and have a good cry-out.

Yes. This is how I got through my teens and my early adult life. Maybe childhood as well, but I have no memories so I can't really tell.
I don't remember any previous instances. I just remember the feeling. I kind of flow out of it again, and that's that. I have never tried to 'go back' to the feelings I had before.

Sitting with my emotions has been suggested here before. I honestly don't know what that means. And I am afraid I would crumble. Maybe crumble just means that I am afraid of really feeling my feelings, because that would make me vulnerable, and I do not want to be vulnerable. Vulnerable is not safe. It always gets you hurt in the long run.

I will leave it at this for now.
Thank you Kwamina, for your time and your questions.
I will have a lot to process tonight as I try to get some sleep.

Libra.

Libra, respond when you can.

You are facing everything here with such courage and are so capable.  It sounds to me like your mother did an awful lot of projecting her own fears onto you.  How she saw herself and her own limits.  Her shame and self-doubt.  When she said "well, that's not the daughter I know from home" can you see now that she never knew you?  That she only saw her own self?  If you can't accept that completely, can you at least accept that it is a possibility?

I do want to say that nothing you shared is inappropriate nor is it shocking.  Kids masturbate to self soothe a lot so it makes sense that you would do the same.  Did your mother shame you about your own body and sex?  I don't want to ask too many questions as there is so much going on in this thread already.  I mostly just want you to know that it makes me sad that something normal and healthy got twisted somehow and became a source of shame, pain and was associated with punishment.  That you used it and self harm as a way to feel makes sense as well and is understandable. 

This will come.  If you are used to pushing them away it makes sense (again) that you do not know what it means.  I did not and I still have not mastered it and I did not have a clue what people were talking about.  It will come... .and it will be interesting.  the feelings I mean.  Sitting with them takes practice and to me it means not pushing them away in panic.  Being willing to be uncomfortable and to experience foreign things knowing it must be done to heal.  To not judge yourself for feeling anger, fear, shame... .feelings just are.  Mindfulness will help.  It was/is a process for me.  Sitting with them meant being okay with just a second or two of feeling before the feeling went away and I shut down again.  It also means being okay with the fact that you might not even know the name of the emotions.  I don't know if that helps or applies though so let me know.

Rest.  Take your time.

Hi,

I have been slow in responding to this thread, I know. I am trying to pace myself.

Harri,
It's true, there is too much going on in this thread. My mind is a swirl. It keeps jumping from one thing to the next, never following one thing through 'till the end. I could start 20 threads here at the moment (don't worry, I won't  )

I have never looked at it that way. I have always internalized her comments, I was deficient. But yes, I can see that now. Boy, keeping that in mind, I will have whole lot of reprocessing to do... .

Not that I remember. She had and has many body issues though, and sex was always something vile. So I may have caught some fleas there that need to be eradicated. I do remember her barging in on me in the shower of a hotel room once, because I was taking too long and they were waiting for me (which is normal, if you're always the last one to get to the shower in the first place). She went back out, bawling disgustedly: "Can you believe it, we're sitting here waiting on her, and she's playing with herself in the shower!". Holidays with the 4 of us were stressy, I wanted to decompress a bit. I got out of that shower way more stressed than I got into it though.

I think it's about time to admit that it does.
I have fleeting moments where I feel warm and giving and good inside, thanks to my primary family. But mostly I just function. I keep busy. I can't just sit, just be. I don't know how to let go of the dam and let those feelings go. I'm afraid I will be overwhelmed.
I know I need to get more in touch with my feelings though. I want to show my children that feelings are ok, that you do not need to be afraid of them.

As always, thank you Harri, for pointing to the road ahead. Yes. I need to continue detaching, whilst taking my own values into account.
“Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you.” - Confucious. That's my credo.

 
Libra.

L2T,

Thank you. This board and your encouragements mean so much to me.
It is like finally feeling accepted, feeling normal.

I will keep chipping away, but only to build newer and stronger foundations.
I hope you will keep working and sharing and building too, L2T.

Libra.

Wools,

You do pick your time to pop in and say hi! Thank you.

I think I am finally accepting that there actually were thorny bushes in my childhood.
Finding out where they stung me is the next step.

I wish I could. It is all just a blank. I sat in the shower yesterday, crying, telling myself over and over "It's okay, it's okay... .".
It felt soothing, but I have no idea whom I was talking to.
How did you identify those inner children? How can I link back to my past?
I think I am still shutting out way to many feelings.

Thank you for your gentle nudges, Wools.

 
Libra.

Zachira,

How does that make you feel?
 
I had a hard time accepting this, but I think I've come to terms with it.
I as a person do not count in relationship to my mother.
It's ironic, after her last rage she told me how disappointed she was in our relationship.
She said that she had seen many examples of how mother and daughter were best friends and were always there for each other.
She simply cannot see that it should be a 2 way street, a give and take.

I think I have come to terms with that though. It is what it is.
Now I want to focus on my past and get rid of all the bad habits and beliefs I had instilled in me.

Always remember that you are so much more than what your mother and your FOO can see.
You are a person of your own right, and you have every right to be happy and loved in your own right.

 
Libra.

Then let's do this!


Many children of disordered parents and who suffered childhood abuse, find themselves affected by it long into their adult lives. In what ways do you feel 'messed up'?

Can you see how referring to yourself as 'so messed up' might be a continuation of your mother's negative and critical voice? A voice that you have now internalized. Perhaps you can find more compassionate language to describe yourself. And if you can't, I think we can help you


How did it make you feel as a child when your mother said these things? I agree with Harri that your mother's words and behaviors say more about her than they ever did about you. Your mother's words and behaviors were a reflection of her own inner negativity, chaos, frustrations, fears and insecurities which she which she was projecting onto you. It was all a fantasy stemming from her disorder and her distorted thinking and perception.


You've already referenced Pete Walker's work on cPTSD and I'm going to quote him here:
"Disabling Performance Anxiety I reduce procrastination by reminding myself that I will not accept unfair criticism or perfectionist expectations from anyone. Even when afraid, I will defend myself from unfair criticism. I won’t let fear make my decisions."

Perhaps keeping this in mind can help you better manage tendency to procrastinate.

Is some of the things you say to yourself perhaps that you always need to be perfect? If it is, our friend Pete Walker again has something to say:
"My perfectionism arose as an attempt to gain safety and support in my dangerous family. Perfection is a self-persecutory myth. I do not have to be perfect to be safe or loved in the present. I am letting go of relationships that require perfection. I have a right to make mistakes. Mistakes do not make me a mistake. Every mistake or mishap is an opportunity to practice loving myself in the places I have never been loved."


It's ok, this isn't inappropriate for this board, it is part of your experience. We've had members before who've expressed similar coping mechanism to soothe themselves as children and/or adults. Surviving a chaotic and dysfunctional household isn't easy for a child and children do whatever they can to hold on and get through.


In what ways did you hurt yourself? Is the tendency to self-harm currently still something you struggle with?


How does this realization that you could never count on your mother make you feel? Does it change your perspective of yourself?


I will again quote Pete Walker here:
"Feel the fear in your body without reacting to it. Fear is just an energy in your body that cannot hurt you if you do not run from it or react self-destructively to it."

Take care Libra

The Board Parrot

Libra,
You asked me how becoming invisible to my family members has made me feel as I am no longer willing to be the emotional regulator. At first, it was devastating and I cried my heart out and I was very depressed. I am now becoming more accepting and compassionate towards my family members with BPD. I am realizing I am the lucky one of my siblings because I am the only one that has rebelled against the family dynamics, and I am more mature and have more meaningful relationships than any of my siblings will ever have. Like you, I continue to work on unlearning ways of being and thinking that I learned in my dysfunctional family, and becoming the best person I can be. I take time out every day to meditate and feel my feelings. I think that there will always be times when I break down and cry, feel depressed, because the pain of never being loved by your family is life long, yet most of the time, I am doing well and moving forward with life. I think there is nothing more cruel than being treated as if you don't matter, and yet it has taught me to pay attention to who I am and to pay attention to people who often get ignored, like the disabled and old people. I find when I interact with people that do not usually get others attention, that many of these people provide warm caring contact that I usually do not get from others that are used to get lots of attention because they are young, attractive, or wealthy. I feel enriched by your posts, as you have a lots of awareness, and you are part of the kindred spirit of the many who post on the PSI Board.

Zachira,

Thank you for your beautiful words. This truly is a magical place for people to feel accepted and safe while trying to heal.
It is so good to read how you manage to turn a painful realization into something positive and compassionate in your own life.

 
Libra.

 

Kwamina,

Lots of food for thought here... .no easy answers though.

I have realized I have what is called an Inner Critic. I am still unable to isolate that inner voice though, let alone quieten or counteract it.

Confused?
Out of touch with myself and therefore unable to cope in a lot of situations.
Not in a happy state of mind, though I have nothing to complain about and a lot of love and happiness around me.

I felt a fraud and I felt ashamed about being a fraud. I felt like I was fake everywhere and that only my mother knew how worthless and truly bad I really was. She did know me best, after all, she's my mother.
I still have to fight that feeling of being a fraud sometimes. I can rationalize it, but that does not make that feeling go away.

I can see now that these messages were most likely projection from her part.
That does not change the memories though, nor the negative feelings that cling to those memories.
And I really was clumsy... .but maybe that was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Is this not similar to an inner critic?
I know I am far from perfect, and mostly I can accept that.
I can rehash something I did or said in my mind and feel shameful and stupid about it. But I suspect that's only human?

Self-harm is no longer an issue. The worst I do is bite my nails and fingers 'till they bleed and hurt. I've done this since a very young age. I have had a few periods in my adult life where I stopped doing this, but I always relapse.

It has reinforced the realization that I was very, very lonely as a child. That is a feeling and a sadness I have only recently discovered and that still carry with me. Maybe that explains the emptiness I often feel inside.

I clearly have to start reading more Pete Walker material. I must say I have a hard time reading and understanding the articles on his website. They just do not seem to register.

How do I go about this 'sitting with your feelings'? Is it like meditation?
Does it come with a manual and an on/off button?   (sorry, don't mean to sound disrespectful... .I just really don't have a clue... .)
Do I just take a moment of time for myself, somewhere quiet and try to clear my mind?

Thank you for making me think outside of my box Kwamina,

Libra.

Libra:  That is an excellent credo.

I think it is fair to say that any child would pick up on this and internalize the messages.  My mom was always weird about sex (I mean other than the sexual abuse stuff).  It was dirty and shameful but I could see her arousal whether it be around men or women.  Never my father though. 

About her walking in on you and shaming you... .makes my blood boil really.  Not that that is helpful to you in any way.  No privacy in the bathroom, shower, own room, dressing rooms, etc seems to be common.  And I can see how a father may just dismiss it as girl stuff in some cases.  Yeah.  So wrong and so damaging.  Lack of boundaries just does not begin to explain this sort of behavior.   :cursing:

I am not sure there is anything specific you can do to let the feelings go other than be willing and have a mind set that it is normal and healthy to feel and yes, it will be uncomfortable and possibly distressing but it is vital for you to heal and be present in your life today.  They will come.

It will happen Libra. 

Start with awareness.  Being aware of when you are carrying on the abuse of your mother on your own self is, I think, the first step.  It was for me, though i still sometimes call myself names. 

Feeling like a fraud will lessen with time and healing.  Remind yourself about Projection (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70931.0) and the fact that your mother never saw you never mind knew you.  Every time something your mom said about you from the past comes to mind tell yourself she was talking about herself.  If she says something in present time, look at it as she is giving you info about how she feels about herself.

How is your time off from work going?  Have you been able to rest and relax?

Hi Libra, how are you doing? I hope you’re feeling better and your body is healing.


For me, sitting with my feelings can be like meditation, especially when I am trying to process triggers, flashbacks and past trauma. I have definitely used meditation... .mindfulness meditation in these cases. Sometimes I do actually put on a timer.

Sometimes I listen to a guided meditation. There are some really good free ones here: https://www.uclahealth.org/marc/meditation-at-the-hammer (https://www.uclahealth.org/marc/meditation-at-the-hammer)

Other times, I simply make a mental note of my feelings and ask compassionate myself questions. I give myself space and time without judgement to allow the feelings to just be... .respectful that they are neither right nor wrong. Feelings just are.

  L2T

Hi again Libra :hi:


If you were subjected to negative messages since you were very young, it can be very hard to distinguish your 'real' or 'authentic' parts from the negative parts that were projected onto you which you later also internalized. Can you perhaps identify the times when your inner dialogue seems most negative and the times when it seems most positive/least negative? Are there specific events or activities that tend to activate your inner critic?


Yes, it totally is a manifestation of that 'dastardly' inner critic! I say this in a tongue-in-cheek manner because another way to view the inner critic is as a specific hurt inner child who out of that hurt and fear lashes out, hurting our other inner children. That's a slightly different model for the inner critic but viewing it from this perspective can at times also be helpful.

None of us are perfect, perfection is unattainable and also very subjective. What's perfect in the eyes of one person might be imperfect in the eyes of others. The most important thing for all of us as we heal is probably to become (more) whole  Being (more) whole can look different for everyone and those differences are perfectly fine ;) )


That's indeed only human, especially after going through a childhood in which you suffered abuse. Again going to quote Pete Walker here: "Take time alone when you need it, but don't let shame isolate you. Feeling shame doesn't mean you are shameful."


Was there anything specifically different about those few periods in which you stopped this behavior? Why is it that you think you were able to stop doing this during those periods?


Well now that you mention it, it actually does!

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1En5QOVXXXXbXXpXXq6xXFXXXG/Parrot-Cute-Switch-Sticker-Personality-Vinyl-Wall-Stickers-For-Kids-Rooms-2WS0286.jpg_220x220.jpg)



The trick is finding that switch. One thing that might help is to try and just observe: "Control your attention, but not what you see. Push away nothing. Cling to nothing."

Can you notice the times you are pushing things away or in this case, the times you are pushing your feelings down or back into a box? Can you imagine not doing this and instead just letting yourself experience your feelings without trying to control them or stuff them away?

The Board Parrot

Hi,

 

Harri, L2T, thank you for caring and asking. Yes, I am finally breathing again, both physically and mentally.
I have started tending the garden again. That is something that truly grounds me, that gives me a sense of simply being. I have neglected our garden ever since my FIL passed away, that's over a year ago! So, lots to do that can help me find peace of mind 

I am still deadly tired - mentally - though. The thought of having to go back to work next week freezes me up. Or is that anxiety? I have seen that word used a lot here, but I am not certain what it means or how to correctly translate it to my own language.

Last Sunday was my birthday. On Saturday, DH confessed he hadn't gotten me a present yet. He asked me how he could help me. I looked at him questioningly, and he said he wanted to help me feel better about myself again, and give me space and peace in my mind. I haven't talked to him about all this recent stuff, I don't think he would/can understand the effects my childhood is still having on me. But he can still sense I am wandering, lost. This makes me feel sad and guilty. But it also feels good that he sees me so clearly, and that he is there for me.

I recently had a strange evening. I went to bed later than usual (never drink coffee at 17:00!). I was still wide awake, though mentally really tired. I could not get to sleep, and I became aware of a lot of hate and anger inside of me. So I got back up, got a pile of blankets and sat myself down in our garden, in the dark, listening to the rustle of the leaves and breathing. It gave me this story to tell:

Once, there was a little girl of 9 or 10 years old.  She lived with her parents and her brother in a new-built house in a far-away country. The children had every possible toy or trinket their hearts could possibly wish for. The mother even bought the little girl nice shiny lacquered shoes for under her school uniform. Those were the shoes the mother had always dreamed of as a child, but they had been very poor and she only ever got hand-me-downs from her siblings. The shoes were uncomfortable, and the little girl got bullied with them at school. She did not understand why this was. She did not have a lot of friends at school.
At home she played most with her beautiful pink bike with white handles. Her dad had taught her to ride without side-wheels on that bike, and now she could roam the front and back garden with it. She called her bike Airwolf, based on one of her favorite TV-shows, where a solitary, grumpy fella tries to save the world with his secret, super-powerful helicopter.
The garden was pure white sand when they moved in, and her parents had worked hard to turn it into a picture-perfect English cottage style garden, with its own vegetable patch, irrigation, the works.
At the back of the house was a little piece of land where nobody ever really went. It was a pit of pure white fine sand with a shrub in the middle. The little girl very often sat there. She preferred it to being inside the house. She would read, play with the sun-warmed sand, or simply talk to the shrub. The shrub was her best friend. She would tell it stories, or she would pour her heart out. It always listened. It seemed to care, and to talk back with its rustling leaves in the breeze.
One day the mother had had enough of that ugly patch in her perfect garden. She decided to fill up the pit of fine white sand and remove the shrub. The little girl was in a panic. She did not want her little spot to disappear. She pleaded long and hard with her parents. In the end it was decided that the pit would be filled up, but that they would move the shrub to another spot in the garden.
The shrub was moved to  a shady corner. The warm, fine white sand disappeared underneath coarse thick grass. The little girl moved with the shrub. She put a chair in the shady corner, she watered the shrub and she talked to it like before. But the shrub felt rejected and discarded. It was uprooted and sad. Its life slowly withered and disappeared, and after a while the shrub was dug out, and replaced by a beautiful, scented magnolia that fit the spot perfectly.
Not much later, the family moved house to another country.

That little girl still feels like the shrub. Uprooted, rejected, discarded, out-of-place and ugly.

I think I have found one of my little children... .

Libra.

Hi Kwamina,


Negative:
- Expectations. It doesn't matter whether I put these on myself, which I often do, or whether I sense that other people have expectations of me. I am so afraid to fail and disappoint others or myself. From the start that inner voice will be there, sneering that I don't have to think I'm that good or that intelligent. It freezes me up and gets me out of balance.

- Having to multitask and failing. Best example is coming home with the children. I mostly have an unsatisfied feeling from my work-day, mainly due to the expectations they have there and me self-sabotaging. I get home tired, with tired or hyperactive children. It is late and I need to start dinner, but the children need to talk about their day, they need guidance with their homework, etc... .and I feel torn. I want to just sit with them and give them the attention they need and deserve, but I also feel frustrated in having to give them this attention and therefore failing to start on the household chores. I know every parent has to balance this. But I feel guilty for feeling annoyed towards my children because they need attention. I guess this is because I probably didn't get that attention as a child. On one hand it saps a lot of energy out of me to give this attention, and on the other hand I'm probably a little jealous or envious of it (why dind't I get that?).

- Comments from my primary family. They are never meant as intrusive or disrespectful, but they sure can hit a raw nerve. A simple comment like: the sauce tastes different from last time can really create havoc in my mind. Especially combined with the previous point. I take it way too personal. I take it as a failure. I let people down. And I can get very irritable because of it. It can easily ruin an evening.

- Saying something 'stupid' or out-of-place during a conversation with colleagues or acquaintances. I will not feel that during the conversation, but later on - sometimes even days later, I will suddenly realize that what I said was completely useless or out-of-context or weak, and I will keep reliving that little bit of conversation and I will feel very negative about it.

- Having to say 'no' to something. Example: The childrens' youth movement is having their annual spaghetti fund-raiser soon. For the past 3 years, I spent my Sunday morning helping out making the sauce. It is fun to do, and it gives me a positive vibe. But Sunday morning is our most relaxing time of the week at home. I need that breather to get through the next week. Especially now, when I am physically and mentally worn out. So I am considering saying I can't come help this year. Which makes me feel guilty and selfish (letting people down again).

Positive:
- When I have accomplished something from my to-do list. Like re-doing a patch of the garden, tending to my bees,  etc. Problem is these things are always lowest on my list and the first to be scratched off altogether, because they are less important.

- When I am completely in the here and now, with no pressure of all the things I should be doing or should already have done (this is VERY rare).

- After a good conversation with my children or husband, where I feel I have taken the time to listen, hear and validate. (this is VERY exhausting).

I think writing all of this does help me understand what you mean with always wanting to be perfect. I think my definition of being perfect is never letting anybody down. It is impossible to do, and it saps away a lot of energy and self-esteem.

As you can read in my previous post on this thread, I think I have found one of my hurt inner children. I am still trying to figure out how she impacts my adult self and my reactions.

What is shame? How does it feel? Is it feeling stupid and worthless because of something you said or did? Is it being unforgiving to yourself?



Funny that, the instances are so different:
- Back before we had children, DH and I traveled around the world for 13 months. Just the 2 of us in this vast world, no timetable, no schedule, just following our noses and our instincts. After a few months I had perfectly healthy looking hands. A few months after getting back into the daily grind and expectations, my fingernails and fingers were back to being painful and ugly.

- After D9s' birth, I stayed home for 3 months. These were very hard months, because D9 had some health issues that resulted in me getting very little sleep and sitting up with her for hours on end. DH helped out whenever he could, but he had to go to work, so I was the one doing all the nighttime caring. Even though it was so tough, I knew I was doing the right thing. I was there for her. It felt good and right. And my fingers were healing once again. Once again, a few weeks into restarting the daily grind and their expectations, my fingers were back to their painful ugly self.

- When taking care of my terminally ill FIL and his ill wife who was in denial, in a strange country, surrounded by a few very good and honest people and loads of vultures circling around. Trying to alleviate the stress for DH and the children. The tension between DH and me would often rise and we'd have heated discussions (more venting, really). But we stood by each other. Again, it felt like the right thing to do. We were there for people who needed us. I was living completely from day to day. My hands have never been so good. When we came back home, my mother was in a very negative spiral, and my hands (and weight) bore the brunt of that.

. 
I will simply print it and stick it on my forehead   
I am trying to be more mindful of my emotions. I think I need to slow down my life. I am constantly running around like a headless chicken, trying to do too many things all at once and therefore unable to do anything really well. Being headless does not help to stay with your feelings and live through them at all... .  :cursing:

Thank you again, for giving me much more to process and learn.

Libra.