BPDFamily.com

Hi all, it's been a while since I've posted, about six months. uBPDh has quit his real estate work and is now just doing whatever he pleases again during the day. I have held some boundaries at least, like not paying for his credit card, and ensuring that, if he wants to sleep in the bedroom with me, he has to come to bed within two hours of my going to bed (or else he has to sleep in the guest room, so that my insomnia issues are managed and he's not waking me up). I'm talking to a therapist now, who specializes in BPD, and she has helped me to maintain boundaries, and to take back some of the control he's put over me. She's also advised me not to indulge his name calling and rants, and that, if he calls me a name or is being disrespectful, I'm to get up calmly and leave the room or the house. This kind of advice is comforting and helpful to me.

However, besides therapy, I've been feeling like my multiple systems of support have been failing lately. My family hates him, my best friend hates him, and the various groups and forums I've been posting on have come down to saying, "Why don't you just leave?" My therapist has me on a plan to take back my power and strength, so that, at the very least, I can make that decision without the unhealthy guilt I feel right now. But, in the meantime, sometimes I just need to vent, and to have someone to talk to, and I feel like every outlet eventually gets sick of me being upset over his behavior. Plus, there are some things I guess that I'm ashamed to admit about him, or to make myself believe. Things that are absolutely deal breakers for me in my "normal" mind. I keep thinking it's not true, or that he'll change, or get better. As time goes on, things only seem to be getting worse. He's not hitting me or doing anything illegal, it's more of an ideological thing.

I know I've gotten a lot of support here, but I've also sometimes felt the pressure to "just leave." I know full well that I'm probably wasting precious moments of life with him, but also don't feel "ready" to kick him out of the house (even though I really don't like how he's changed and hate that he's trying to force me into this caretaker role that I never asked for). I know that I'm to blame in some of this too, that I ignored little red flags along the way because I wanted this to work out for me so badly. I don't feel trapped so much as paralyzed, staring into the abyss of my guilt.

   

I'm glad you are reaching out for support. 

I'd like to know more about the therapists plan and where you are at on that plan.

I would hope that you didn't feel pressure from me to "just leave".  Instead I would hope you feel pressure from me to "respect his decisions" even if they aren't "respectable".

Said another way... .don't save him and don't enable him.

How does he get money if he isn't working?

FF

Hi FF,

With my therapist's plan, she is working on having me shift the focus from him to myself, because, despite setting some boundaries, I'm still walking on eggshells. Ultimately, she wants me to be living my best life, and, at that point, he can either get on board, or it will be clear that we're not compatible (therefore eliminating much of the FOG I'm experiencing).

I don't recall having pressure from you to "just leave," but I know people here have challenged me about why I stay, which I have explained at length, and at any rate, this is not the forum for that. This is a forum for those who are conflicted and just need to talk things out. I've actually been surprised at the reactions from people on various support groups that are supposed to understand what we're going through, and that BPD can be very emotionally disorienting for a lot of people.

Regarding the money, I really don't know where he's getting it (likely from his mother). Frankly, as long as it's not coming from me, I don't really care how he gets it. He did do some electric scooter charging earlier this month, so he might have earned some extra cash doing that, or he might have sold some car parts. I have no idea.

WEW, you seem to really be in a bind - I am so sorry to hear this for you!

So, I won't give you advice or tell you want to do, but what I will do is relate to you the immense guilt that was levied on me by my ex pwBPD, what it did to me, and now in retrospect what I think / feel about it.  Perhaps that will allow you to think about the situation differently or at least to feel like you aren't the only one out there locked into a guilt-trap of some sort.

For my ex, her weapon at first was sex, and once I was hooked into the relationship, her weapon was guilt.  I am someone who had a very tight-knit family and a good number of close friends, so I had a really good support structure (or so I thought).  Over time, my ex whittled away at that network.  But I sabotaged some of those relationships, too - because I was locked into this guilt-trap where I felt so much love and empathy for my pwBPD that I needed to defend her.

My friends also got tired of me "complaining" but not really seeing any improvement, and I think at least in my case they just stopped responding to me because it hurt them too much to see me continually in the same state, when for them the choice was simple: 'Dude, just leave!'  Its not that easy.

Unless you live it, you don't understand it.  YOU live it, so YOU understand it!  I vehemently defended my pwBPD to my friends, my family, to anyone who would listen because I felt that I had to defend her.  She had been the poor product of this environment that has conditioned her to be the way she is, and as someone who loved her I felt that I was obligated to defend her.  I realized that I had gone beyond defending her and was actually justifying her behavior towards me to others.  That realization made me stop and think.

Obligated - lets talk about that word for a second.  Sure, when we agree to marry someone or be with someone there are certain obligations that we agree to (inherently, or overtly)  - such as 'till death do us part' etc. etc.  I had to take a long hard think on what my actual "obligations" to her were, after enduring so much abuse and chicanery from her.  I made a little list of them, and a lot were very fundamental (empathy, consideration, helping with food, shelter, etc.) - and then I thought about what I expected her obligations to me to be.  Things we discussed (the few boundaries I was able to put and keep in place), some common things like affection, or not raging at me for no reason etc.

It ended up becoming a lopsided list of sorts.  What I felt obligated to through guilt outweighed the basic human decencies that I felt she should feel obligated to adhere to on my behalf.  Sadly, she did not and could not think and be that way.  Often times when I told her that she was making me feed bad, she would respond with "XSurvivrorX, no one can make anyone feel anything. You chose to feel that way - I don't make you feel anything! You do it to yourself, so that is your fault."

I had to take that to heart, eventually.  And when she would lay guilt on my shoulders, I would have to mentally let it slide down to my feet and step out of it.  It was an active choice to stop feeling the guilt of not doing or saying X Y or Z.  Once I had some practice in that, and had built up the confidence, I was then in a position to see things as they were.

If you can get to that position, to recognize that he doesn't make you feel something - that you are letting that happen to yourself, and be able to "turn it off" so to speak - then you too may be able to see things for how they are.  And if and when you do, then you can clearly make your calculated decision:

- Am I able to stay in this relationship and work with him under these guidelines, recognizing that its my job to not only work with him but to also work with myself on rejecting the guilt and anger he is trying to levy on me; or

-Am I not willing or able to work on this any longer, and do I want a change that is better for me?

Only you can decide that - we all have our own limits and tolerances.  I had mine, and I made my choice.  If you can learn to let that guilt go because it's been unfairly laid upon you, I think it will clear your judgement and sense of self enough to be able to rationally take stock of things, and make your own educated, rational decision.

In the meantime, there is little I can say about the support structure situation.  I'm sorry.  People who don't understand won't.  People who do can, but may want to lead you in a direction based on their own experience or what worked for them (or what they wish would work for them).  At the end of the day, try and find something constructive that you can do that is yours - a hobby, etc. if you don't already.  I found even doing something simple for myself like enjoying  a hobby was enough to make me feel confident about me as a person (when my support structure had evaporated and / or had been shut out).

Wishing you the best, and do take good care -

WitzEndWife

Yes!  That is a very boundary driven point of view.  I applaud you for the obvious hard work you have done with your T.

Regarding pressure to stay or leave.  I often feel the pressure myself, so I think I understand what you mean.  My goal (and I hope that of others) is to help you identify "issues" or "things" that often are very uncomfortable to reflect upon as you chart a course in life for you.

1.  How can we best support you over the next weeks and months?

2.  What is the biggest thing you have come to understand over the past 6 months?

I'm glad you are posting again.  I believe sharing your journey will help others as well as yourself.

Best

FF

From a support perspective, the people you really want to support you (not us, I guess), friends and family, believing in BPD is like believing in Unicorns... .your T believes in Unicorns, we believe in Unicorns, but the majority of people just don't get it. Ironically, if you said he had Alzheimers you would both have more support and understanding than you knew what to do with.

I said to my T the other week that I felt increasingly isolated by the very knowledge that was setting me free from years and years of confusion. My friends rolled their eyes, my family winced... .I've given up trying to explain. Since people don't understand, their advice and support is somewhat skewed to treating them as just another bad person who's consciously and purposefully attempting to hurt us. They typically don't have any concept of the forward consequences, especially when children are concerned... .which makes and support and advice a bit impotent.

Staying and standing when all about you are telling you to leave is very emotionally tough. As though people are calling you a fool on a daily basis.

I won't be telling you to stay or go, neither is an easy option.

Enabler

XSX - thank you for sharing your story. It's helpful for me to talk to people who are on the "other side" of leaving these relationships. You've been through the "fire" and lived to tell the tale. I think there's guilt for sure, but through my work with my therapist, that guilt is getting smaller, because I'm putting more obligations onto him rather than myself. I think there's a lot of fear there - fear of being all alone in that house, of knowing what to even do with myself after he's gone, fear of having to take care of the car and home repairs alone, and the dogs. I know these are all manageable issues, but they seem like jumping off a cliff onto a pad of spikes. I know it's going to be a painful landing.

FF - I guess supporting me would be just listening to me and helping me to find ways to deal with my stress and fear. The biggest thing I've come to understand is that he's not going to change, and that I'm more under his thumb than I realized, and I need to prioritize myself.

Enabler - You hit the nail on the head with the whole "unicorn" analogy. My best friend, who used to work in an ED center, didn't even believe me that my husband had BPD - both she and my mother thought I was just making excuses for him - that is, until I told her about his disassociative episodes. Then, she believed me. But, even at that, I feel like I have to feed them the bad stuff in small doses, because if I tell them everything that's going on, they'll pressure me to leave. So, a lot of stuff is internalized. I tell my therapist most things. I think I'm still worried about admitting others to myself. And, like I said, even so-called support groups online are filled with people who treat you like you are some weakling idiot who doesn't care about herself enough to leave. Some people understand, but I feel like I'm hiding things more than I'm letting things out, and it can be exhausting. 

Powerful stuff there XSX!

... .the term "caretaker" just lit up across my brain housing group !

Jiminy Christmas ; (

Tough stuff... .this BPD,

You know, I've lost about six pounds since last Wednesday... .

Red5

Hey WEW, What keeps you hangin' on, as the song says?  Presumably you get something out of the r/s.

LJ

Red5, it certainly is powerful stuff, and I do think as much as we defend them, we're really trying to defend ourselves. For me, I don't defend him anymore, I acknowledge that what he does is not okay, but I have to defend why I stay. Why do I enable him to do whatever he pleases all day long and get away with it? Why do I stick around, even though it seems as though he's so petulant and contrarian, that our values aren't even in sync anymore? Why am I still there, even though he acts like a 14-year-old child?

It's hard to explain the FOG unless you've lived it. You can't explain it to someone. I think BPDs are the hardest people to leave. In a nonBPD relationship, if someone were treating me the way that my husband treats me when he's splitting, it would be an easy "Bye Felicia!" But, in this case, it's that push-pull, petulant vs. helpless and loving persona that keeps you frozen in place.

But, like my therapist says, trauma is incredibly common. Most of us have some kind of trauma. A lot of us have mental illness. However, some of us take responsibility for ourselves and deal with it, and some of us do not. There is no difference in the ability to help oneself between my husband and someone with BPD who is in therapy and working through it. He is not actually helpless, he's deciding not to accept responsibility because he's never had to. But he is starting to realize that, at 41 years of age, it's no longer "cute." Here, he's spent half of his life floundering and suffering. It's when he'll run out of options or places to hide that he'll actually change.

Indeed.  I mean, you sound like a you're a really smart cookie so, I can sense you know what is going on.  Fear sucks, for sure.  But for me, fear is more prickly-feeling whereas the guilt is just so, so heavy. I can handle the prickles, I couldn't take the weight.


Absolutely. Actually, I had been diagnosed with PTSD from the war, before I met my ex pwBPD.  I was upfront about it, but she used to belittle me about it all the time (and after telling me to seek help from the VA, then forced me to stop going because she didn't like to see the forward progress I was making).  I used my separation & divorce time to work on myself.  I was afraid to be alone, so I rekindled my old friendships and made new ones just to keep out of the house a lot.  And when I was home alone, I used that time to face some of my own inner demons from Iraq that ultimately helped me be a better me.

I think she saw the guilt I had from the war and then used that against me to trap me into enduring the BPD, the rages, the insults, the over the top sweetness and cuddles, right back into the abyss of anger and insults.  Everyone walks their own path. Whichever one you walk, I hope it brings you the inner peace you seek.


For sure Red5! You know what I'm talking about.  I don't have children, but for a while I felt like I had a D30going-on3.

It might be that you are posting mostly on Conflicted Board. The charter is "should I stay or leave".

Try another board. 

Today was my first session with this new T, it’s been about sixteen years since I sought any “T”... .

The T, he says to me, after I got through with my “introduction gut spilling”... .

He says, “why do you stay”.

I replied... .“you know Doc, you are not the first person to say that to me”.

Wow... .why do we stay, .

This time is different though, from all the other times I reached “the end of my endurance”... .

I have no idea how to “fix things up” this time, nor do I think I even want to, .

I think I have subconsciously removed life support from this marriage.

T asked me today if I was afraid of divorce, I said no.

I am at war with myself... .internally; FOG.

Heavy on the “O” and the “G”.

Red5

 

 Hi WEW,
As a veteran of two marriages to BPD husbands, I’ll say that there are some behaviors that are tolerable over time and some that grind you down within a few years. What I’ve learned here has saved my current marriage. Had I known what I now understand, my first marriage would have been doomed no matter what—he was just too damaged for it to be sustainable. And many years later I still get calls from creditors trying to track him down, so he’s obviously not made any improvements.

It comes down to deciding what kind of life you want to live and if this person is an anchor or a buoy. I actually had a dream one night that I was free diving in the ocean—no snorkel, no oxygen tanks, no mask, but somehow I could see clearly. And as I was surfacing, needing to get a breath, suddenly my soon-to-be-ex and my BPD mother were grasping my ankles, trying to pull me down. Then I woke up.

I ended a long marriage to him with nary a regret, other than regretting that it had taken me so long to finally come to that decision. The process was difficult and he threw roadblocks in my path every chance he could get. But as I was finding freedom from being in the clutches of such a dysfunctional man, I kept getting stronger regardless of what he did.

My current husband is BPD-lite and with what I’ve learned here, we now have a nice relationship. It isn’t the fiery romantic love story I thought I signed up for,
but nevertheless it’s good, whatever it is now.

It’s up to you to decide, WEW, what you’d like your future to look like, given the realities of who you’ve married.   

Cat

... .cement shoes came to mind !

I think it’s time to sell the boat?

Red5

Thank you for your service. I had a military ex who had PTSD and it was terrible, so I understand what that must be like for you. It's interesting that you say that she used your mental illness against you. I think they do tend to weaponize our weaknesses. For me, I am someone whose love language is validation. I like to hear that I've done a good job at something, or that I look nice, or that I made a smart comment - because I didn't get that much growing up, and I was bullied in school. So, my husband always tears me down when he's mad at me. He always does his best to try to insult my intellect, and my journalism and philosophy training that help me create and identify logical arguments. He hates when I debunk his arguments, so he goes for the jugular. He uses everything that he has against me.

That's exactly it, isn't it? It's funny, I keep thinking of my future being without him. Mundane things too. Like, I'll look around the living room and think, "I can't wait until I can have house plants in here!" (he hates the idea of indoor plants). Or I think about the freedom I'll have to do what I want when I want. I can drink a diet soda every once in a while without him judging me, or I can listen to podcasts without him complaining about them. Those are nice thoughts. Maybe I need to focus more on those thoughts and less on the stressful ones?

I have been doing this as well, for a little while now, where are these ideas originating from... .my heart, my mind, or my gut?

Red5

No problem, WEW. It was something I always had wanted to do since I was a kid.  It's made me who I am today.  I certainly wasn't completely ruined by the war, but there were a lot of things that I wanted to address and there were things I was seriously struggling with. If I had not been in that state of mind when I had just left the service, I think things would have turned out differently.  I would have walked away from the whole relationship in the dating stage when I saw some of the traits begin to set in.  She most certainly used it against me, for sure.

So I think what made matters worse (for us both) was that... .my ex dBPDw was "working" in the mental health field.  I use quotations because she had not yet received her doctorate or clinical license. I am pretty sure that she got into this line of work to try and self-diagnose.  I think her knowing she had BPD and her own knowledge of the mental health field were dangerous for the relationship.  First she did not like the type of therapy they were doing, and then when she learned that the person I was seeing at the VA was a woman (as well as an intern in a clinical program, so a younger woman, similar to herself) she completely trashed everything associated with it; stop taking any meds, stop doing these 'homework' assignments, stop thinking about exposure-situations to build up some trigger resistances.

It made my own recovery journey longer for sure, but it also kept me beat-down and in a spot where she could use the guilt I had to control me.  I too have the same love language - I need that external validation.  There was a reason I joined the Army and part of it was to prove something to myself.  She saw that and capitalized on it.  Sad, really (for us).  The ones we trusted to love us unconditionally are (or for me, were) the ones who abused that very trust - while accusing us of betrayal and finding reasons to validate to us why they could not trust us.

Its silly now, but we had a "trust meter" arts and crafts project hung up on the wall. And she would move the pointer to show where my percentage of "trust" was on any given day.  I did something she liked, it would go up a percent or two.  I got caught texting a friend, it would go down five or ten percent.  I indulged this for a good while thinking it was something that made her feel better.  When she began to lower the pointer and pencil in negative percentages (over trivial matters, mind you), I tore the damn thing off the wall and tore it into a dozen pieces, tossing them in the air and proclaiming that this was absolute $@#&~&$!  I mean you can't lower my trust percent because I dated someone before we ever got together, or because I told my mother "I love you."  In her eyes, I was only supposed to love her and only her.

Being so book-smart, she had to rub it in my face constantly how she was practically a doctor, and use her analytical mindset and "big-words" vocabulary to pick apart every argument I would ever make, in protest to anything.  It was such a brow-beater. I do hope you get to see some self-validation from time to time.  And I do hope that things improve for you. 

Good Morning WEW!

I was driving into work this morning... .and this old tune came outa the xmradio... .
("Get It Right Next Time" - Gerry Rafferty - circa 1979)

Made me think about you, so I'll share it... .here are the lyrics,

Hang in there!, & kind regards;

Red5

Out on the street I was talkin' to a man
He said "there's so much of this life of mine that I don't understand"
You shouldn't worry I said that ain't no crime
Cause if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time,  

You need direction, yeah you need a name
When you're standing in the crossroads every highway looks the same
After a while you can recognize the signs
So if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time,

Life is a liar yeah life is a cheat
It'll lead you on and pull the ground from underneath your feet
No use complainin', don't you worry, don't you whine
Cause if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time,

You gotta grow, you gotta learn by your mistakes
You gotta die a little everyday just to try to stay awake
When you believe there's no mountain you can't climb
And if you get it wrong you'll get it right next time,

Red5 - Aww, thank you! I really appreciate that you were thinking of me and my situation. I know we're all in the same boat. I'll have to give that song a listen today!  

XSX- Wow, your ex REALLY put you through the ringer! But yours is an incredibly fascinating story. If I wasn't embroiled in my own BPD spouse hell, I probably would love to study more BPD stories. I think it's a really interesting personality disorder. It's so complex. There is so much contradiction in one person.

I've been looking into Borderline subtypes. Some people don't believe in them because there is so much overlap, but I think my uBPDh fits mostly into the "Petulant" subtype. According to one website, it's described as:

"Petulant Borderline

Individuals showing petulant borderline characteristics are unpredictable and difficult to please. They are often irritable and prone to outbursts of anger and frustration, and they are impatient with other people and quick to become disillusioned when they don’t get what they want.

As a consequence of their tendency to be willful and defiant, people with petulant borderline traits are often stubborn, defensive, and unwilling to admit when they are wrong. Their relationships can be loving but are always complex, and they often engage in passive-aggressive behaviors as a way of lashing out at people who displease them."

Passive-aggressiveness is his weapon of choice most of the time. There's always an underhanded dig at me when I'm doing something he doesn't like (that I'm totally unaware of, of course). He's an extremely sensitive soul, the biggest open wound I've ever met. He spends most of the day on social media, trolling and angry posting about politics. It's gotten really bad, and in that world he lives completely outside of reality. My therapist says this is him acting out his anger. So, instead of fighting people physically, or raging out in the physical world, he's acting it out online.

Part of that raging out online is also a passive aggressive dig at me, because I don't share a lot of his political views. He once told me, I guess in a moment of clarity, that he posts things with the hope that I'll see them. I have periods of time where I'm weaker and I take the bait because he posts something that is just complete nonsense, and I have to throw in some logic. He loves very convoluted conspiracy theories that go way off the rails. I'm like, "Or, here's a simple explanation... ." and he rages out, makes fun of me, posts memes, and calls me "delusional." Since therapy, I've really been trying to stay out of his rants online. I'm hoping that will take some of the wind out of his sails. He also tries to force me to watch his favorite political YouTubers, but those guys just sit there and make fun of people like me most of the time, so it's not even like I can sit and absorb the information and think, "Oh, okay, good point." They're more like, "These idiots think blah blah blah... ." Not really my cup of tea to sit and be insulted. So, I choose to leave the room when he's watching them on our projector. And he gets upset for me for being "intolerant" of his views. Eh, okay.

I am starting to really fish out of all of the confusion the hardcore gems of my values. One big value is that spouses should respect each other. They don't have to agree about everything, but they should respect each other's views and autonomy. I don't feel like I have much respect from my husband.

My therapist says that I need to stop playing out the mother-son role playing game he's initiated. He's basically behaving like a 14-year-old. He does what he wants, leaves dishes in the sink, gets mad at me for "controlling" him when I ask him to do something, engages in name calling, and acts out his rage. But stopping the role play is actually harder than I thought, because he does some things that are really frustrating. Like, for example, I've had tax amendments sitting on the dining room table with a note on them that requests that he sign them and mail them. He has ZERO obligations, there should be NO reason that he not do this simple thing. But, the papers have been sitting there since Monday. And, last night, I finally had to nag about it. And I cringed while nagging, because I felt like his mom. But what else was I supposed to do? They won't accept the amendments if he does not sign the papers. So, I'm at the mercy of an adult child's whims. And, of course, he knows that. Sigh.

WEW, I am late to this discussion, but your H sounds a lot like my uBPD/uNPD H.  The rage and name calling are a common feature of interaction with my H when he dysregulates.   (My H calls me the worst names, especially b**** and c***.  He would never ever tolerate a boyfriend calling these names to his daughters.)

H has been petulant and pouty lately.  After violently dysregulating (broken kitchenware, furniture, punched holes in the wall, broken bathroom tiles), he will pout for hours on end, then blame me for feeling the way he does.  He can project like crazy.  When his children emotionally blackmailed him for money as teens and young adults (he was a non custodial father), he quickly opened his wallet and gave fistfuls of money to them, then felt ashamed and humiliated by it after they resumed badmouthing him.  Then he turned to me and used me as his emotional and verbal punching bag.  The cherry on top was/is always a divorce threat.

Right now things are on eggshells because one of his children (who lives close by) is contemplating moving across the country to take a job offer from a friend's family--a job that has potential to be lucrative.  This is triggering the abandonment fears in H, and--you guessed it--he is projecting his fears and rage onto me.

Thank you for mentioning the BPD subtypes.  I have to look into this more so I can better grasp my uBPD H's behavior.

That said, everyone has his own belief system, but my H does not know himself coming or going.  He's a chameleon.  With me, he has to have an identity, and he dislikes not having one.  With his drinking buddies, he can get drunk and soothe the pain of his emptiness, and they can validate each other, and with his children, he can hand out money, and they can gush about what a great parent he is. (They always come running and buttering him up when they want money.)   Then he comes home to me after a euphoric visit with his friends or children, and then he trashes a rack of glass dishware because the floors were not cleaned that day.

WEW, I know you are using your knowledge base with the advice of your T to see your H's behavior is not of your making.  My H is also like a toddler or a teen.  I do indeed feel like my H's mother.  He clearly states he enjoys the company of his friends and children (and their spouses) to mine.  (BPD lack of identity.)  His identity is really dictated by the opinions of which friend or child he is with (everything from sports teams and political beliefs, to moral and spiritual beliefs.)  With his sons in law, he can go totally against what he represented himself to be on our wedding day 20 years ago. One SIL is an atheist, and there was H, talking to SIL and bobbing his head like a puppet agreeing to everything he said.  When he is with one friend, he likes this politician; when with another, he like another.  

it's infuriating, but also very sad.  The man has no identity.

Please have your taxes done ASAP as this affects you financially.  I have my own private business (not held jointly) and I guard my financial security and assets with diligence.  (One time H threatened divorce, telling me he'd burn down the house we held jointly and he'd take half of my assets and business.  Nice try, pal.)

Be well.  I also see a T and it's a real sanity saver.  

These boards have become my support group.  Just reading other's stories in living with a pwBPD helps.  Knowing that I am not alone and so many people are struggling with the same issues and questions and conflicts helps tremendously.

The only other support that I have is one sister who originally mentioned BPD to me.  I see so few of my friends these days as my GF thinks I should only need her in my life.  She suspects that I talk about our r/s with them and wonders what we talk about.  She feels that I shouldn't have an interest in my friends' lives and their families.  So my codependency kicks in and I isolate myself.

So I am thankful of everyone here.  WEW, you are not alone here.

WhitzEndWife, your Tax form frustration really gelled with me. I often feel like I am held at ransom by my W on practical things. Silly things like choosing material for my D's roman blinds, I gave her 10 examples and asked her to either come up with another suggestion or pick one of the attached with D to get her sign off... .yes... .I am a man who can use a sewing machine. She never picked one and therefore 2 years down the line my D still doesn't have new curtains and has the same old blue ones despite the whole room having been decorated by me. Pushing the issue would just result in me being accused of being controlling or worse still coercive controler, but not pushing the issue results in a stalemate. I compare it to someone who stands in a doorway and refuses to move, if you touch them to try and move past, they claim you've assaulted them and they were just about to move and you'd been impatient. I could name 100's of things that my W does which seem hell bent on just being covertly awkward about things.

Why not ask for input by a certain date... and then make the blinds that your daughter and you want... or you want... or your daughter wants.  Why hand your wife the power?

Same on tax forms?  I get it that filing separately costs some money, but if someone isn't going tFFo do simple things like sign forms, should you really be in business with them?


Oh... .and next time a conspiracy theory is placed online... .all you need to do in the post is ask him directly...

"What is the most parsimonious explanation for (xyz)?"

Leave it at that... .

FF

WOW! I too had never heard about sub-types, but to be fair, I did very little research on BPD when I was in the relationship because she would be able to tell when I was trying out something that I had seen in a book or read online.  "All those things will do is tell you to leave me" was her canned response after getting me to admit that I had read about trying X, Y or Z.  All that ever did for me was result in increased scrutiny on my internet usage, etc. 

Even looking back despite how insane it was, the entire borderline thing still does interest and captivate me, as an outsider looking back in.  I share a lot of the same experiences as you, but man - it definitely was a trip, let me tell you (I'm actually considering writing a book about my relationship and living with a borderline).

Re: the politics, for my ex dBPDw, fighting with me was almost like a fuel (no doubt you've seen me telling this to Red5 who seems to also have a similar feeling).  Anything she could do, covertly or overtly, to reel me into an argument so I could be put down seemed to sustain her.  At the core of my values, I too finally recognized that this indeed is not how adult couples treat and act towards each other.  It just isn't (says the guy married once to a pwBPD to the group of people in the same boat... .)

Hope heading into this weekend you can at least find a little "you" time and that there are at least a few peaceful hours. 


Maximum - I KNOW! My ex was the exact same way.  She hated her family and had little interaction with them; she had no friends (the cast of Melrose Place were here "friends" she would tell me). She insisted - nay, demanded that she was the only thing that I needed in my life whatsoever.  It was a smothering, suffocating, and ridiculously unhealthy situation to be in.  Yet for some reason, recognizing this I still married her. <kicks self> I hope you can enforce some boundaries, 'cuz being isolated from anyone other than the BPD is like,  red-flag  A#1 and once that door is closed, its hard to open again.

Wishing all of you the very best ahead of the weekend (Labor Day one, stateside).

Hey WEW, Well, I've lived through the F-O-G and can understand that it obscures one's view on what's really going on, which is why I consider it important to avoid getting isolated.  Otherwise, one can lose all perspective as the craziness becomes the new normal.  At the end of the day, it's not OK to be treated poorly.  I suggest that you work on self-love, which sounds easy but is actually pretty hard for most of us Nons.  The goal, I submit, is to get to a place where you care too much about yourself to allow yourself to be the object of anyone's abuse.  Now, I surround myself with those who treat me well.

LuckyJim

That's pretty bombshell !

Yeah, when you step out of it for a few daze... .and the "crazy" is gone for a little while, .then you step back into it... .it becomes extremely evident very quickly how intense these relationships are... .like intense, by the half hour, the hour... .all day... .drives me crazy ; (

... ."walking on eggshells",

You get so uptight, even nervous, even nauseas... .you get so' that you cant even stand to hear their voice... .uhg !

Simple things, like interaction/chores around the home, become so intensive, you want to scream... .they (BPD'ers) can be so nit picky, so critical... .so negative... .geez, just loading the freakin dishwasher can be mentally exhausting after a while, I ain't even kidding sports fans, .NO I ain't.

Red5

Yes, even when things are "good" this still applies.  :(  I'm in the midst of a few construction projects, one of which has gone seriously awry, but is getting back on track now. I was pretty stressed out until I figured out a workaround, but now my husband is really tweaky.

Since I've logged in this morning, he's been in and out of the house, coming back to my office at least 7 or 8 times for no good reason, and I've had to quickly click on another window. Every time the sliding door opens, I feel a pit in my stomach. Yikes, the anxiety he is feeling--it's easy to let it get to me.

Fortunately he's left to go to the post office. Sweet relief!  

He's baaaaaaaaack, even sat down in my easy chair. So I asked him if he'd ever listened to Eminem and put on a YouTube video, LOUD. He left after about a minute. 

HA HA HA HA !

That's hilarious !

Me, its airplane videos... .runs her outa the "office" in a hot second... .like this one ; )

Or sometimes I also start "talking" about airplanes (work), that'll do it too... .'in a hot second'... .

Kinda sad though, .but what am I to do, watch "Say Yes to the Dress " with her, .or, ."Dr. Phil"... .she watches him all the time too... .and I'm not allowed to speak while its on  ... .also I mute during commercials, that drives her nuts  

You know, back when she was working, before BPD epiphany... .I used to sit and listen to her for hours on end tell me about her work/office/job/co-workers this that and the other, a-b-c-d... x-y & z... times are sure different now...

Actually I am a Weather Channel/American Picker junkie  

Goodness Gracious !

Red5

Hey Red5,
Whatever works!   No point in listening to Eminem if it’s not loud, and I bet you play those airplane videos full volume too!

My husband is a classical music aficionado and he can do the same thing to me with some operas!    Mozart’s operas I typically like, but some of the others make me respond like fingernails on the chalkboard.

What you describe about your wife’s work stories—well, that was my childhood! Every night listening to my mother’s endless and pointless work monologue.

It is sad not finding much common ground, but it is what it is and so far, it’s defnitely getting better for me. Not all relationships are salvageable. My first marriage sure wasn’t and I certainly put in the time and effort. Even if I knew then what I know now, it wouldn’t have been worth the cost of resuscitating it.

Cat

Wow, Red, not to hijack this thread, but my uBPD/uNPD H does something in this vein!

H is glued to the sofa watching his TV shows and I can't say a peep until commercials.  If I venture to say anything, he keeps his eyes on the TV and silently holds up his hand and snaps it in the "shut up" command.  Of course, when his adult children are over with friends and significant others, they can chatter on as much as they want about the program or anything else.  It's only me that he commands to shut up.

Again, I want to thank WEW for bringing up BPD subtypes.  I am looking into this. 

Hey WEW,
I know that passive aggressive crap really wears one down. Here’s my solution to tax documents: you hold pen, produce documents, give him pen, watch him sign, then mail it off yourself and file separately next year.

I had a similar dynamic with my husband leaving wet clothes in the washer or dry clothes in the dryer—for days. Drove me crazy and I initiated countless skirmishes about this. As you probably can suspect, nothing changed. It wasn’t that he didn’t have time, I think now that he was too lazy to fold things and put them away, so it was convenient to forget about them and leave them in the machine.

Finally my solution was to remove his stuff to a laundry basket, do my laundry and then put his clothes back in the machine, just as he had left them. Now that I’ve been employing this strategy, he’s actually being a lot more responsible and we haven’t had that repetitive argument for over a year.

I too felt like a parent to a petulant teenager. I just had to stop my part of the drama and let natural consequences befall him. Now things are a lot better because I’m not the target of his anger. He can bemoan national politics, get angry with contractors or choose any other target of his choice. I no longer try and reason with him or attempt to present a balanced viewpoint; I just validate that he’s upset and feels badly. That way I stand to his side, rather than in front of him as a target and he feels supported, so he’s not going to undermine that. It’s a win/win for both of us, and so much less draining for me.

Cat

This is so true.  I also find that my concentration and memory gets lost because I'm so overwhelmed by my GF's moods, and emotions (also my fears of her moods and emotions.

Max

AskingWhy wrote earlier about hating to hijack this thread.  But what to do when someone posts something that you relate to, but isn't directly related to the original post.  My apologies WEW.
 

Cat,

How long did this strategy take to kick in?  I have started working on on validated my GF's feelings when something bad happens at work or something with her family happens, but it always seems to eventually come around to blaming me and I'm the target again.

Max

Hi Max,
A quick answer to your question: it's an ongoing process. I refuse to be a target. I would suggest that you exit the conversation when she begins blaming you. It comes down to a simple stimulus/response equation. She's upset about something at work. You validate the emotion and behave in a loving supportive manner. She then blames you. "Sorry Honey, I don't want to participate in this conversation. I must go." (This sounds very simplistic, but if used on a regular basis, it will work.) You are available when she's nice and make yourself unavailable when she's unkind.

Why don't you start a thread and provide some of the he said/she said conversation so that we could help you more?

Cat

Update: People were talking about how mundane activities can be draining with a BPD, but what about when the proverbial poop hits the fan? Well, let me tell you, its much, much worse, and I found out this weekend.

Long story short, we had an accident with our rescue hound, during which she severed the end of my pinky finger on my left hand. I have to yell at him about five times to get him to realize that he needs to rush me to the hospital. I have to talk him into not losing it in the car on the way there.

I have to wait six hours in triage until a doctor can fix me. He goes home because he doesn't want to sit in the waiting room. He calls me crying, saying he's sad and doesn't want to be alone. I tell him to call his mom. Meanwhile, I'm crying and processing all of what happened in front of a bunch of strangers.

I get home at around 2:30 am. We were given a prescription for pain meds, which I figured would get filled after a few hours of sleep. H is anxious, but eventually gets to sleep.

In the morning, I hear the hound barking. She was kept in the basement that night after all of the hubbub. I gently shake my husband and tell him she's barking. He says he doesn't care, that she will be fed when he has had some sleep. I say that we need to get my meds anyway as the pain is starting to increase. He tells me to take ibuprofen, that he's not going anywhere. I start sobbing. I can't believe he's being so mean. He tells me to "cut it out."

Hours later, he's up and we finally get my meds. At that point, he's much nicer.

Since then, he's been waffling between Dr. Jekyll normalcy, extreme anxiety and uncontrollable sobbing. Last night, between choked sobs, he told me that he had contemplated suicide while I was in the ER. Oh boy... .

Meanwhile I'm just trying to heal and cope with having part of a finger off. I have to type with one hand, which is insanely annoying. He has managed to take the focus off of me and put it on either him or the dog. Luckily I have friends, family, and coworkers who are a good support there.

Wow! WEW--so sorry this happened.     Bad enough to lose a fingertip, but to have to prop up your support person too! That's too much!  

I had a similar type incident happen with my ex. I was hundreds of miles away at my father's deathbed and the day after he died, I was there supporting my BPD mom. Well, BPD husband #1 was feeling abandoned and called me and told me I had to return home immediately or he'd commit suicide.

I can imagine how you felt and think it was probably similar to how I felt back then. So sorry you had to go through all this trauma without a supportive person to take care of you.   

Cat

Cat - It's definitely not an ideal situation. I do have one interesting development to share.

He and have been watching "Crazy Ex Girlfriend" on Netflix together. I have already watched through Season 3, but he was about a season behind. The main character gets diagnosed with BPD early in Season 3, and I was kind of dreading him watching it because I knew that they went through the official checklist and I could see him thinking, "None of that applies to me." However, when we got to that part, he started sobbing, and said, "All nine of those apply to me." I patted his arm and left it alone. I didn't want to press it.

But its interesting, today I feel more compassionate toward him than I've felt in a long time. I want to broach the subject of BPD, but I don't want to botch the opportunity to open the door to therapy and treatment. Any suggestions on how to keep the conversation going would be welcome.

Hi WEW,
Wow! I'll have to tune into that show. I only have watched a couple of episodes from the first season. That's pretty awesome that he was open enough to see how the diagnostic criteria applies to him.

Good that you supported him while not pressing him for more info.  

I had an interesting development regarding my husband and therapy last night. As long as we've been together, he's struggled with feeling like his sisters, who live on the opposite coast, don't regard him as "part of the family." Like what I experienced with my BPD mom, this wound seems never to heal and when he talks about it, it's the same every time--almost word for word.

I've suggested he try therapy and he has, briefly. At one point, he was so troubled by this issue that I researched a psychologist that I had heard about and gave him the contact info. My husband is so intellectually brilliant, that he needs a very intelligent therapist so that he can't outwit him or her. (My first husband was very smart too. What I've learned is that smart and common sense aren't necessarily a package deal.   )

So he did start with this psychologist and I decided to do something radical, since I was so desperate at the time that he would be seen clearly and treated appropriately. I called the psychologist with the caveat that I knew it was inappropriate that I forewarn him about his patient, but that my husband has such a good presenting persona that I thought it would be useful if I shared what I've observed regarding how he fit many criteria of BPD. I had a very nice chat with this guy and felt relieved that I could share my observations. Unfortunately he only went to a half dozen or so sessions before he quit, telling me that he thought he was at a good point to end the sessions.

I was really disappointed, but what could I do? At least three years go by, I post more about my story here and do a lot of reading about BPD. I work on myself so that I'm no longer triggering him the way I used to. Things get better. Of course, as typical for all BPD relationships, we never return to the idyllic beginnings, but things are good, just different than what I thought I was signing up for at the start.

So here's the kicker--last night at dinner my husband said he had called this P and set up an appointment. Because my husband is so reticent about sharing information about anything he feels vulnerable about, I merely said, "That's great. You really liked that guy." He was disappointed because his appointment isn't until October, but I'm so glad that he's decided to start back with therapy.

What I'd suggest for you, WEW, is to steer clear of labels. Perhaps you could say something like "I've found it really helpful when I've had some emotional pain to talk with a therapist about it," assuming that you've done therapy. To make it seem like a normal human experience is helpful. For my husband, having a repetitive cycle about feeling alienated from his sisters has been enough of a motive to begin therapy.

Is there something that your husband has struggled with that might be a good motivator for him? Ideally a discrete topic that's not all inclusive would be a good way to normalize going to therapy. For example--lots of people struggle with depression. It's very common. I think that's the approach I'd try.

Cat

Hey WEW,
How are you doing? Probably still having to type with only your right hand. I know how painful hand injuries are. I chopped off a slice of my index fingertip on my left hand when I worked as a prep cook in my early 20s. The kitchen staff never found the bit--probably ended up in someone's salad. 

I hope you're doing better. I know how traumatic it can be.   

Cat

Sending some good thoughts over your way WEW.

Hoping this Monday finds you well!