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I broke up with her, but only because she seemed so unhappy, said I didn't adore her, wasn't "in love" with her, said she wanted someone who wanted to spend every day with her etc. Anyway she has sort of moved on ( met a guy on internet and hoping for marriage and babies) and now I'm devastated. She's not completely body, but the push/ pull meant I never felt safe and there wasn't any relief in sight.

I don't know what I'm asking for; she may come back or not; I would ask God to do that -- but maybe the new guy is better for her? Also part of me (small part) when I feel all right tells me I "dodged a bullet".

After she left I figured out how all our communicating was tense and wounded and stifled! And that I love her so much. But too be late?

Any comments please? Ps statistically speaking I'm a " BPD magnet"  ()

Welcome back!  I see it's been a while since you've been here.  Can you give us a quick recap of the most recent relationship?  How many BPD relationships have you been in?

RC

Sure. I met her 15 months ago. She fell in love immediately and we began to spend weekends together. but she said I wasn't attracted to her and cried about it a lot. Also in between weekends she was nice on the phone but also sometimes pretty insecure. I did a bad job attending to it I suppose. she said  she couldn't be " on trial" so i guess we descended into casual dating sort of, meaning we had no formal commitment but really it was still exclusive. But some sort of verbal push/pull (it's not okay for you to love me just because you don't want to be alone) slowly ground me into a position where I let go.

She's NOT BPD strictly speaking but has so many symptoms ( eating disorders in past, cutting, etc) that I felt posting here would help.

I had one or two other BPD girls--they of course did not become long term things. It's nuts but I want her back.

I've been reading "the high conflict couple" in case I ever have a chance to use it.

One humor note: the one before this did a sort of push/pull then met me at the soccer fields to talk. I said "I just wished I had a relationship where I didn't have to defend myself". She giggled. My heart sunk.

How did you never feel safe?

So by " not safe" I meant that her mood would turn on me and she would want me to go away, and, though I could probably get her to take me back in, one day it would be the final flush. Thus turned out to be accurate, of course. There was never any real physical danger only the emotional kind.

Hi tim27818,

How long were you together may I ask? What various BPD traits did she have?

Hey, is that a soccer joke? Defender?

sincerely, pearl.

About 10 months.
Earlier in life she cut herself but had stopped.
Earlier she had an eating disorder but stopped.
Sometimes she drank and got a but mean and called me.
She seemed to be afraid if not being loved, cried a lot that I didn't love her.
She had extreme affection for me during the hours when we first met.

Tell us more about breaking up with her, yet wanting her back.  It makes sense that those apparently opposite ideas can both be going on in your head at once, but tell us about it.  I'm assuming that you're feeling conflicted still -- or is this a case of you broke up but now you regret it and 100% want her back?

WW

Well... .she said I wasn't in love with her and didn't crave her company and adore her and almost worship her. She wanted to feel pretty and I didn't compliment her well. She cried a lot and asked me how she could change her face and body do I would love her like that.

The stress of it all was making me numb to feeling, perhaps. But I only broke with her because there was (apparently) no way to make her happy; I was instead holding her back from the "true love" she really wanted. So we were breaking up every week or month, and the last time I just let her go. Later I missed her (much later, months) and realized I could have tried to reason maybe (I love her but maybe not in the obsessive way). She had already got into another relationship, though. I wonder if I had done things different, of course.

I broke with her so she could have a happy relationship and now I can't really get her back without breaking some moral rule to not interfere with committed couples. She knows how I feel, though. My dam got unblocked.

It's been a few days.  How are you doing?  If she knows how you feel, you've done what you can.  You said you've had relationships with several women with BPD or other serious issues.  Is that a pattern you want to break?  (That's a genuine question, not intended to be tongue-in-cheek or sarcastic).

I'm ok I guess. I have about 50% of my brain thinking about her all the time. I just called and left her a voicemail (no answer). It's difficult. The other 50% drinks coffee, goes to work, etc. I started seeing a therapist once a week. Days like this I want to tell her I need her love her want to be with her can't live without her. At the same time it seems like emotional suicide or something (fearing a final and inevitable estrangement) so I hold back some. Also ( importantly) she has a new guy, so I have to be careful? I'm a bit of a mess but I keep waking up and going to work etc. I'm functioning. This is how it feels when you're being replaced I guess. I asked God for help. I'm gonna go drink a bit more coffee. Thank you for all your responses.

And, I don't want another BPD cause it breaks my heart, but I don't know how to think about all that right now.

That's great that you've started with a therapist!  Figuring out what's attracting you to women with BPD is going to be a critical element in setting you up for some healthier future relationships.  Feel free to hang out with us on Bettering for as long as you like, as you work through whether to rekindle things or let go.  If you decide, you can also start up a thread on Detaching.  If you do, give us a link here so we can follow you.  Eventually, I'd highly recommend spending some time on Learning, starting with that very topic of understanding your attraction to women with BPD and identifying signs of healthy or unhealthy relationships early on.  You absolutely can change the patterns!

Please keep us posted on how you're doing.

RC

When I was young I was depressed and felt very unloved and saw a world that didn't care at all, so I got mad, and decided to get even with it by protecting the unprotected and fighting abuse of power. I do this in subtle ways mostly (getting people raises at work etc). All of my exes had been sexually abused early on, at one point I volunteered st a rape crisis center for about 5 years. Anytime I see someone hurt like that, I want to hold them and be there and make it all better. So I'm an engineer but my secret avocation is "protector". It's been this way forever and I can't imagine giving it up. I don't really see the point in trying to help if they don't get better and I just get hurt, though -- that's just stupid. So maybe I can find a way to do some good still but not get hurt. The protector role works well for me overall except for romance, where it has made me a BPD magnet, or else (conversely) the BPD's are "protector magnets".

So last night she calls me and wants to know when she can reasonably expect me to "be over her" because she has things she needs to talk about concerning her new boyfriend. I sort of declined to hear about it and didn't offer up an estimate for when i would be recovered (don't wanna let go of dream). She said there was no chance of getting back together. I'm pretty stubborn I guess. Then she talked about quitting her job and moving to Florida to live like a beach bum, drank some bourbon, took some melatonin, and smoked some "CBD" ( a legal cannabinoid) saying she was done with this day and just wanted to sleep. She also sort of admitted to the push/pull saying she didn't want to be "seen" by others and she probably would have ended the romantic part eventually but would always love me.

To me, it seems kinda cruel to jump into romantic liasions with people and talk about forever when you know you do this. But maybe every time she convinces herself this time is "different".
 
I'm not thrilled at the prospect of listening to her romantic word now that I've been discarded. Fortunately I can keep the boundary somewhat intact.

Maybe I'll feel sorry for her when I get more distance. She's sort of doomed in a "groundhog day" way (groundhog day the movie) but without a happy ending.

P.S. If she has all these friends and family (she says so) then why not call them? They might be able to commiserate with her without it affecting their emotional well being.

Bingo.  You nailed it.  When our relationship with someone is defined by our need to protect them and/or their need to be protected, neither they, nor we, are looking out for our needs.  Our need to protect is met, but not all of our other needs.  The good news is that you already have an excellent, sensitive detector for when people need help.  You just need to re-train your response so that you maintain your distance instead of dating them.  (If you'd like to read a fascinating book about re-training yourself to different behaviors, check out The Power of Habit, by Charles Duhigg.)

If you look at professional helpers and rescuers, they are operating in an environment where there is a strong power imbalance between them and the ones being helped or rescued.  You don't want this power imbalance in a romantic relationship.  It's fine to channel your rescuing energy into volunteer or professional work, if you keep it within the boundaries defined by the organization you are working with.  For romance, you want someone who specifically does not need rescuing.

What are your thoughts about her asking you if you're read to be over the relationship so that you can continue to give you emotional support?  Is she looking for a balanced friendship where she gives as much to you as you give to her?

RC

When you say it like that, it sounds like a good thing, but for now I can't do it... .I lost my girl!

After the last conversation she sent me pics of her with her new boyfriend and that really has messed with me. She's nice enough about it, though. I just miss the intimacy. A lot. To

That makes total sense.  The feelings of loss are intense.  Give yourself time to process what's going on now.  The things I shared with you will be easier to apply in the beginning stages of a relationship, when you have less at stake.  You may even meet someone someday and feel an initial attraction and have your danger detectors warn you even before you ask them out.

Ay, that's rough, I'm sorry to hear that.  I'm not sure it's accurate to say that she's nice enough about it.  A really sensitive person attuned to your emotions would give you more time.

Back to my earlier questions, what are your thoughts about her asking you if you're ready to be over the relationship so that you can continue to give you emotional support?  Is she looking for a balanced friendship where she gives as much to you as you give to her?

RC

This is going to sound nutty, but after talking to her more and examining myself, I'm terrified of abandonment but also I'm afraid of intimacy, unless it's completely on my terms. It started maybe when my mother was severely depressed and needed me to hug her so she would feel better and I thought "I hate you I hate you I hate you" -- then I tightened all my muscles up and wouldn't hug back. I've sornt my adult life freezing up both physically and emotionally when a woman gets close (especially sexually). Their (understandable) reaction is to feel rejected, like they love you but you don't live them. I realized this and I even think: I need someone to have patience, but maybe THEY could initiate sex (if we talked about all this ahead of time) and I could trust them while it happened (hopefully) and u could begin to open up my boundaries that way. It's not ideal to insist you control everything just to be safe. I can feel unsafe maybe and grow a bit at a time.

ANYWAY, I feel like my new purpose as protector is to now dig inward and slay every demon that threatens my family. If course, I don't really have a family right now but I can do the work now--its actually the best time to do it. Therapist on Friday of this week (2 days from now). God bless you all and thanks for the help (I'll keep you posted).

It's like we both have BPD symptoms, but she's aware of hers and getting better and ive just woken up. I don't think she's have full blown BPD though.

Wow, those are some amazing insights.  Take them straight to your therapist!  When a parent places those sorts of demands for emotional sustenance on a child, like your mother did, it turns the world upside down and can really disrupt the child's ability to form healthy attachments and relationships.  It makes total sense that you fear both abandonment and intimacy, it's not nutty at all.  I'm sorry you find yourself in that place.

What if you leveraged your rescuer tendencies and did a paradigm shift to see yourself as someone worth rescuing?  Made yourself the next project?  "This guy needs some serious help, but I can figure it out for him and help him on the path, if only he will listen to me!" ;)  Is that worth a try?  Can you challenge yourself and your therapist to form a plan to address your twin fears of intimacy and abandonment?

RC

My expbdgf helped me figure it out ... .That's one reason I love her. Took me like 40 years of wasted time to figure it out.

Ha!  My BPDw is incredibly insightful about my issues.  Not so much hers ;)

What that a "yes" to making yourself the next rescue project? 

After our conversation about mea and my mom she stopped texting back, first time ever for this long (but it's only like 12 hours). I think she took my revelation as an accusation that she was one of my boundary violators? I'm forced to guess.

For the lack of contact, I'm just giving her space, I think that's what I'm supposed to do. I'm not in full "feeling abandoned" mode yet. Maybe that won't happen?

I wanted to feel safe, but I can't talk about who I am without her taking it as an accusation and abandoning me, that's NOT safe. Its not her fault, though.

Update: she just replied to my "good morning" text, so maybe I was panicking prematurely (hypervigilance).

Your mom was depressed.  She asked you, actually forced you, to help her.  Your primary mode of interacting with women seems to be to help or rescue them.  Is that something you've thought about before?  If so, what are your thoughts?  How might your thoughts on that inform you or influence your plans or actions in the future?

RC

Yes, I will try to rescue myself. But I tend to doubt my worth. I'll do it for the little boy inside of here, though, since I like him a lot.

Excellent plan

Yes, that self worth thing, that's a kicker.  You were set up from a young age to define your worth by how well you can tend to someone else's needs.  How would you prefer to define your self worth?

RC

I'm coming up with a blank on this for now. In fact, my primary motivation to be better is probably so I can love better. I do want to feel less pain though.

Rewiring ourselves in this manner is not easy.  Just last night I was in a support group meeting where the leader was trying to get one of the guys to describe what he did for self care that week, and he was describing opening doors for other people!  I'm in the middle of a month-long breakup process where one of my roles was caretaking. Figuring out how to love myself and do things for myself is tremendously difficult.

Have you heard of the concept of self care before?  What does that term mean to you?

RC

I have trouble with self care.  My T asked me that and I decided I heard the trombone adult voice from Peanuts.

I'm feeling very devalued right now. Getting nothing positive but lots of judgements (minor things like I watch too much TV am not interested in news or politics, etc). I feel so unloved, she was my only "source", so I try to go back to the well. But maybe I can let go for awhile (a short while) since it's not doing much 4 me (might be hurting me). What to do with my intense unlovednees though -- I can't start up with someone else now like she did, it's nit right and not my way. I exercised moderately ( helps me sleep) and went to see a movie about a demonic nun. I bet she would judge me 4 that too!

On a more positive note, I saw the therapist today, he said I was doing gr8, I asked him when I would be ready for a date. He said my heart would know, but he said not too long and also that my prospects for a family are moderate at least.

I'm fixin to transform myself with God's help in a way that blows everyone's mind. It's my new mission.

Time for the demonic nun movie. Have a blessed night all.

By the way, she sorta has to devalued me for 2 reasons 1. Loving me while she's with someone else is angst for her and 2. It hurts to love me and I failed her. But knowing it doesn't completely fix my emptiness.

I can relate to wanting the love to come from outside, but you gotta learn to love yourself.  I see a couple of good signs.  You talked about exercising, and want to make a transformation.  What are the elements of your transformation?  One thing that helped me finally get real about self care was making a list on a spreadsheet, with a row for every healthy behavior I wanted to do (several exercise lines, meditation, walking the dog, practicing an instrument, talking to a friend each day, etc.).  Then a column for each day of the week.  I'm not that organized, this was just me trying to power through and make it happen.  I completed as many items on the list each day as I could.  There's more on there than I can realistically do each day; I don't worry about that, I just do as many as possible, and if I have a lame day, I get back on it the next.

Tell us more about what you want to achieve in your transformation!

RC

I wanna be able to love someone in a way that majes them happy, not sad. I wanna feel safe when I do it.

Not sure how the transformation goes. It's not a plan of mine just a thing I believe in and as am open to. I talk to a lot if people about my heart now (I have material), I seek out crowds, I have dinners with friends, tonight I'll be at the rodeo, etc. Lots of people and places other than being at home alone but it's just desperation to avoid being alone with my feelings.  Hard for me to give back I only feel my own pain 80 or more percent of the time.

The thing I learned the hard way is that the other person has to be responsible for their happiness.  We can't take an unhappy person and make them happy.  They need to bring the ability to be happy to the table.  It does feel wonderful to make someone happy, but my goal is to find a healthy person who's reasonably happy on her own, and being together makes us extra happy.  I'm not sure if I'm being articulate.  Does that make sense?

That's totally OK if you're forcing yourself to go out but are feeling crummy inside.  There's a principle for managing emotions called "opposite action."  Basically, if you're feeling depressed, you force yourself to get out and about.  If you are feeling anxious, you do calming activities.  I have spent a whole lot of time at events with people in the last year where I felt like a zombie who wasn't giving back.  It got better, slowly.

Have fun at the rodeo!  It's been too long since I've been to one!

RC

Not sure how to ask anyone else about this, but one thing that seems to bring me (temporary) relief is an orgasm. Of course, I'm thinking about her when I do this (my mind can't picture anyone else). Anyway, it maybe buys me some respite from my obsessive thought patterns. Does this sound like a good idea? We're tslking once a day, maybe twice on weekends.

It also helps me feel less"needy" so that I'm less likely to call out to her, which it seems may be unhealthy since she's with someone else.

Sure an orgasm can be healthy, though if you're thinking of her maybe it's a breakeven as far as healing goes.  It could be a row on the self-care spreadsheet.  You're going to want a pretty diverse set of self care activities.  What other things might be good for your self care list?

RC

I'm torn. She calls me and I know she still loves me and she knows I wsnt her back but she's with someone else. We dissect the past then she hangs up. I'm trying to be loving, I'm trying to maintain contact (cause I feel SO unloved without her) but I'm still attached and hurting... .meanwhile she has a new guy( WHOS WINDERFUL). She's very loving to me and vice versa (but we can't talk about it anymore since she has a new guy) and I let her go do I dirt of regret it but I'm torn. I just want someone to hold me and live me and not leave (so I got those aspects myself). Maybe I'll fall asleep soon. I'm considering not answering the phone. Buy I miss her so much. I'm in hell. I may be slowly detaching though. And she's so calm and cool. Ick.

Earlier I just wanted to feel better and it felt like if I puked I would and I sort of tried to, but of course nothing came out. I wish I could just get the poison out of me. Before I met her I felt s little empty and alone, maybe, but I was normal.

The good news is that maybe I can have a meaningful relationship someday since now I'm seeing a therapist to deal with the trends in my romantic life that predated this one.

Puking it out would make for an easier night, too bad it's a fantasy.

I'm pretty sad today. A lot of days, actually. I feel like I'm gonna die unloved and childless. The therapist says the odds are in my favor, though. I can't cry well so the pain gets stuck inside here. And I won't use tv to go numb ever again ( I got home early and am reading "setting free the bears" though).

Just checking in, no questions. BPD is on travel and work-focused (we both know how to be in this mode).

Update: its been another month. Seeing the T about weekly. Started listing myself on dating web sites, ok. But there do seem to be some potential mates there. Flirting with girls who don't live close, making no firm commitments. I think I want a whole enchilada (wife and kids both), so a lot of women can't really hit that target.

Anyway, she still calls me, is still with the replacement, is considering marriage perhaps -- but I'm not freaked like before. Maybe it's because I have a bit of hope. Maybe its because I can see her more clearly, including her self-absorption, which is obvious now.  Oh, and I told her I was in love with her (clumsily) but it didn't change the current trajectory.

I'm in God's hands, ill be ok -- sticking with the T so I can become a better me. Time helps, thank God .

My T said that sticking with therapy demonstrates character (juxtaposing it with my ex who quit).