BPDFamily.com

I apologize for the long absence folks. There's a lot of personal, emotional, and physical processing to be done in a situation like this.

I know many of you had comments and concerns about the deadline for filing. I was on top of this, and so was my attorney. They asked for, and obtained, the appropriate extensions to make sure I wasn't affected. This firm is very experienced and professional. I wasn't worried I'd miss a deadline.

We completed the answer, counterclaim, certification, and cross-motion after about 3 solid days of heads-down work. I spent much of last weekend on the phone, and then on Monday I spent a good portion of the day in my lawyer's conference room approving and editing drafts, proof reading, correcting facts, and polishing the responses until they were perfect. And, honestly, I am quite proud of what we were all able to accomplish. This firm has an extremely gifted and empathetic younger attorney with 2 young children. She understood right away that we were dealing with a personality disorder. I didn't have to say a thing. Her first question to me was, "Has she been diagnosed?" - so I explained everything I could in the time we had. She knew the judge well, she knew the opposing attorney, so I felt very confident that her drafts regarding the cruelty counter claim and the cross motion for custody were going to resonate well with the court. I went back and forth a little with this attorney as to whether I wanted so much of my private texts entered as exhibits, and she assured me that the net effect of these messages was that my STBX looked very unstable and combative, while I remained calm and tried to problem solve. She said this is the strategy that will win over the court. So again, she gets it, and I'm basing that also on the fact that this is the strategy so many of you have recommended.

The partner attorney was working hard on the financial aspects, and again, I'm really happy with the work she did. We managed to put forward several defenses to the post nuptial agreement, and completely dismantle my STBX's arguments around financial abuse, inflated claims of my salary, etc. We have very few marital assets relative to the amount of debt we share, but this attorney put forward several reasonable proposals to free up funds to pay for what's needed.

The court date is set for next Friday, and I believe I am as prepared as I can be. I will relax this weekend, and at the beginning of next week I have several blocks of down time to prepare myself mentally for facing my STBX in court. I made many claims in the filings as to my abilities and involvement with D4 - every single one of them backed up by a piece of evidence. Everything that could be or should be entered as an exhibit was entered.

I wish I could share more of the specific stuff that went into the filings - I'm very proud of it. But it would take quite a while to edit out the personal details. I'm not 100% sure these are all the things that needed to be said or that they were said exactly the way the judge needed to hear them, but if I were to guess, I'd say my case looks good at this point.

I may not have more of an update for another week or so, but I welcome anyone's comments or questions and I'd love to answer them.

Thanks again for your patience everyone - I truly appreciate everything everyone has done to support me so far.

---

When I got home, my family was gone | Part 1 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=323828.0)
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 2 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329171.0)
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 3 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329172.0)
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 4 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329173.0)
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 5 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329174.0)
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 6 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329175.0)

Hello everyone, it's been a couple of weeks since I checked in here and I apologize for the delay. I have had a lot of things I needed to process, emotionally, physically, mentally. I have a long long road to go, but I realized today that I neglected my family here so I wanted to come back and share an update.

I had a couple of threads in a couple of places discussing my emotional state - you can catch up here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325101.0) and here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=325463.0) - I decided to start a new thread, but those two previous threads are important background.

To recap, about a month ago, someone I knew from high school reached out to me after reading my Facebook "I'm getting a divorce" post. I didn't know this person well in high school, but I lived in a small town and we had a lot of casual interactions at town events, school, etc. It turns out we had a lot in common, not even about divorce, but personality wise, life goals, etc. It was a very exciting conversation and it led to more and more conversations. We met up a couple weeks later and things have been going really well with us ever since.

We talk quite frequently and it's very flattering for both of us to know that we are attractive to someone else. She is just starting her journey and is drafting her divorce complaint now. We are able to talk about things we've learned during each of our journeys. She's got two young children and is working with her family and friends to find an apartment. She and I have talked about the concepts of dependency and rescuing behavior and have both agreed to check ourselves. We are also very careful not to spend more than a few minutes talking about frustrations and co-ruminations  regarding our STBX spouses.

I would characterize what's happening as a close friendship that has the strong potential to develop into someone much bigger at the right time. We have what appear to be strong romantic and sexual feelings toward each other, and without elaborating, these are things we're comfortable exploring if and when time permits. But each of our primary focus remains on our children and our divorce case.

I'm really glad I have this relationship in my life - we both seem to be able to communicate extremely well, and we're both aware of our roles in our past relationship dynamics. We're both seeing therapists and we both are learning skills on our own. And the best part of all of this is that we can bring these skills back to OUR relationship and practice them, discuss them, try again, and do it all at a very slow and controlled pace.

For those who followed me previously, you know that the initial phase of this relationship was NOT quite as controlled - I admit that - I felt so good I probably lost myself a little bit. But thanks to everyone here, my therapist, and just my own careful considerations, I think I've pulled this back into a much more reasonable and controlled pace.

Sorry again for the delays, folks. All of this is very fresh, raw, and sometimes hard to process without a little space.

My ex filed early on that I be evicted from our house. However, she left the residence weeks prior. In the eyes of the court she abandoned the residence so I was allowed to live there still. Ex was allowed to live there also even though she claimed she was in fear of me hurting her. She had nothing to show I ever did anything that would warrant such a fear. I had a protection order against me saying I was not allowed to follow, stalk, or physically assault her. The judge was covering his butt.
My first attorney was horrible. Eventually I figured that out and got a better attorney. My new attorney explained things better and told me what to expect most of the time. We worked as a team. He told me what he needed to accomplish my goals which made it easier since I knew what to give him. I also gave him things I thought were critical/important. He kept them all and did point out what he thought was important. Learning what the courts want and being able to produce such evidence is the key to success.
Introducing evidence as evidence was a big deal for my situation. The process of introducing evidence slows the court down. Everything must be in triplicate, it has to be introduced as evidence, labeled and tagged. However, judges must make their decisions based on the evidence provided. Verbal testimony is not as strong as physical evidence. Having documented evidence changed everything in court for me.

Thanks for the check-in, DaddyBear77! 

It sounds like you're doing great.   |iiii

Can you say a bit more about what you did to find yourself after getting "lost" for a bit?  What did that process feel like while you were going through it?

DaddyBear77,

It sounds like you are prepared and have a good team.  Wishing you well next week.  |iiii

Panda39

DB,

Sounds like you've done some great preparation.  Thanks for the update.  I think your priorities now are on track -- take care of yourself, try to relax as much as you can, and rest up for the big day.  Have you been able to start exercising?  Taking walks at least?

WW

Thanks Insom - great question.

So something like a divorce, whether expected or unexpected, seems to really throw your life into disarray. I initially responded with strength and did an initial alignment of resources to handle the initial phases of lawyers and responses. But then I slipped into a passive mode. I spent a lot of time looking for one on one support, and also validation from friends. I started to realize that the friends that helped the most were the ones I've known since before I was married. What that meant to me was that reconnecting with myself needed to start with a time before I met my wife. Luckily, we tend to meet a lot of people in high school and college, so it turned out a lot of people remembered me and I remembered them, even though it had been many years since we connected.

Another thing I learned quickly is that being my authentic self needed to be my number 1 priority. I had spent so long being someone that I thought someone else wanted. I realized that I knew all along what was important to me and what wasn't. I realized I was a good person, and most, if not all, of the people that my wife had declared "toxic" were really just people who had differing points of views on some topics, but were really kind and loving people who wanted to help.

What finally put things back together for me was a trip back to my hometown area. I hadn't been there in many many years, and I was finding that so many of my kindest and most compassionate friends were still in the area. So I made it a point to visit a few of them, and then again this weekend I'm visiting again.

Reconnecting with that part of my life has helped me feel whole again, and has recharged me with the strength I need to get through these next phases.

Regarding the budding close friendship and potential romantic relationship, that has also helped me find parts of myself again I was afraid were lost. Luckily my feelings of love and romance are still there, but these parts are way more complicated and touch other deeper issues I have to work through. I'm realizing that finding myself is my first and foremost priority. Luckily, my friend is also on that journey so as I said, my hope is that we can both take that journey, slowly, together.

Thanks for your story, david - we have some strong similarities. I had also anticipated an attempt at eviction, and it also appears that my STBX has rented another apartment and is slowly moving things out of our house into that house. I think it's clear that she's been advised not to move too much. It's also clear that she's been told she can take as much money as she needs to out of the joint funds. So there's some struggle with finances but my hope is that things will be clarified next week.

I will share a little more in terms of specifics - my STBX refused to complete what we call her Case Information Sheet - this is a sheet that outlines our financial situation, and both parties are required to complete it in our state. What she alleged in her filings was that she was completely unable to access any of our financial information - I had lied to her and kept it from her. In my response, I was able to provide multiple e-mails I had sent her or copied her on, detailing things like discussions with bankruptcy attorneys and copies of our tax returns. I was able to provide photographs of whiteboards where we laid out all our incoming and outgoing money each month, with most of it in her handwriting. I was able to provide copies and screenshots of a shared Google spreadsheet where we tracked monthly bills, which, by the way, was so complete that my attorney was able to accurately complete most of the Case Information sheet on my behalf. I have backup files from nearly every iPhone we've ever owned, and therefore was able to extract numerous text messages that had financial discussions.

The result was that my motion filing had the maximum 25 pages of text, backed up by nearly 100 pages of Exhibits referenced in the text. My wife had few, if any evidence to back up her claims, and the evidence she did have was very weak. For example, she had a signed letter from the Woman's shelter that she attended counseling at. I half joked with my attorney saying "If you give me a week or two, I could also attend some sessions and get a signed letter, too!"

It's my hope that I'm as well prepared as I feel like I am - as I said, I feel well served by this attorney who helped me collect everything I might need and weed out the things I didn't. But in the end, I realize it's up to a judge who is human and there's always the potential that my wife brings such a good "A" game that she slips one past the goalie so to speak. Lets hope that's not the case.

Another thing I learned quickly is that being my authentic self needed to be my number 1 priority. I had spent so long being someone that I thought someone else wanted. I realized that I knew all along what was important to me and what wasn't. I realized I was a good person, and most, if not all, of the people that my wife had declared "toxic" were really just people who had differing points of views on some topics, but were really kind and loving people who wanted to help.



This is a great realization.

I think your response to meeting a caring person at the time you did is understandable. A starving person finding an ice cream shop would go overboard. You've been starved of caring, validation, support and surely it felt amazing. I imagine the danger warnings of too much too soon are in part because a person in this state is in a state of need and deprivation, and emotional pain- and long term decisions are better made from an emotionally more stable place.

You asked about learning relationship skills with someone else in a similar situation. I can share my observations from attending  co-dependency recovery groups. I have seen people do this both in a relationship and without one. Most people come to the groups on their own, and some are in couples. What's been interesting to me is when two people in the group pair off. Some pairings last, some don't. I considered it a red flag at first but then, I thought maybe not a bad outcome for all of them - if each of them is working on themselves with the help of an objective guide.

There are many reasons for the warning not to date during the early recovery period from a divorce, or even when just starting out to work on co-dependency- as you already know. I think the bottom line for me is that- in or out of a relationship it is individual personal emotional growth. Each person has to own their own stuff and work on it. It can't be done for someone. Also, another possible pitfall is the tendency to be too helpful and taking on the role of therapist, coach, sponsor for each other. Two people emotionally in the same place may have limited perspective.

A valuable aspect for me was having objective people ( counselors, sponsors) turn the mirror on me. It isn't pleasant and at times I felt angry and that it was unfair. However this led to more growth than if they had validated my own perspective. We also need to have good friends and feel validated too and it is good that you are reconnecting with friends... I think it is great that you are remaining in personal counseling.

It sounds like you and your team are well-prepared. Great!

This is looking like a very familiar playbook for those of us who have been through divorce with spouses with BPD. You are arguing from evidence; she is arguing from emotion. This is how I think things are likely to play out in the short term.

1) In court, your ex may act out or speak up emotionally. This is going to be difficult to hear, and it may push your buttons causing you to want to respond and re-enact some old marital arguments. Prepare yourself to avoid reacting. Let your attorney talk for you -- and CHECK WITH HIM/HER BEFORE YOU SPEAK UP IN COURT. You don't need to win an emotional argument in front of the judge -- you will do better to demonstrate that you are not there to engage in emotional arguments!

2) The judge is not likely to make any dramatic rulings on the spot. The judge wants to get to a point where both sides can come to an agreement, everyone is operating from the same set of facts, and any deviation from an equitable split of custody and finances is justified by facts and expert opinion. For example, on finances, the judge may ask you to provide access to all records going back years to the other side and ask them to provide a budget and balance sheet based on supporting evidence. The judge is likely to order an evaluation where there are separate sets of facts - very likely a parenting evaluation, possibly a financial evaluation.

3) Any emergency motions filed for things like spousal maintenance, parenting schedule? You'll probably get a ruling on those shortly (note: shortly can be 1-2 months after the hearing), or you might get referred to a rapid response mediator if your county has services like that.

Overall ... .it's probably not going to be a really dramatic experience with sweeping decisions made. However, you'll see how your ex composes herself in court, you have a chance to demonstrate that you don't act down to her level, and your behavior may lead to favorable initial rulings.

Is your attorney recommending that you do any talking/testifying?

No specific recommendations yet.

My STBX still has a chance to file a response to my counter claim and cross motion. That deadline is Monday. After that we talk specifically about the hearing expectations

I'll be curious if your L encourages you to testify this early on in the process.

I found that even sitting next to my L, not testifying, made me weirdly cold while in court. Maybe it was a physiological thing, I don't know. I seemed to struggle with tremors or slight shaking during the hearings. It's weird how the body expresses emotional stress.

My L didn't prepare me for the physical part of court much. I had planned to bring a small notebook so I could focus my attention somewhere, but apparently anything you write while in front of the judge can be shared with the other L, at least that's how it works where I live.

I'm not from a denomination that uses worry beads, but I wish I had something like that to fiddle with disretely while in court, to help calm me and focus my breath.

Like flourdust mentioned, you will likely hear outrageous things in court, said by the other L (part of the theater, btw) and it's hard to keep your emotions seated. People in my court were admonished for sighing too loudly, or rolling their eyes. One guy kept doing it and the judge threatened contempt of court if he continued to do it while his ex was testifying. To make matters worse, the judge kind of treats people like little kids, so then you can feel 5 years old and helpless, just dealing with the judge.

I also did the superman pose in the bathroom stall before my hearing  :) There's a TED talk about power poses and I took 2 good long minutes in the bathroom doing those poses before my hearings. Never felt sillier, but they seemed to help!

You may also want to ask your L if you can wait in a conference or settlement room before trial so that you aren't standing in the hallway eyeball to eyeball with your ex while you wait for the Ls to show up.

I also took 6 flights of stairs so I didn't end up in the same elevator with ex and his L (happened once). Nothing like being a bit winded to take your mind off things  *)

These are just little hacks that helped me manage my emotions in court over the years, little things to help me stay grounded. Maybe others here have suggestions for things that helped them stay grounded in court.

One member PM'd me from court with a message that just said, "In court. Right now."

A little lifeline back to your favorite peanut gallery, where people know what you're going through and deeply care.

 

My ex's typical response was to make allegations.  She only once claimed DV (that was years later when I was seeking full custody) and I think it was because she was the one who faced a Threat of DV case at the start of our separation.  However, she made every sort of child abuse allegation possible.  It was predictable that she would make one shortly before a major hearing, as though she wanted something to wave in court as "Aha! I got you!"  And I could expect one when she flubbed up and needed to make me appear worse than her.

So don't be shocked or devastated if your stbEx makes allegations against you.  Courts don't get in a tizzy about them, neither should you.  Be prepared, of course, and be protected.  In general, don't do anything or say anything that could be misconstrued as you being angry or abusive.  Even if stbEx is shouting at you, demeaning you, accusing you, disparaging you, shaming you... .stay calm, don't give stbEx any ammunition to use out of context.

My ex used to make lots of false allegations. I tried defending myself in the beginning. That didn't work as she just made more. When I stopped reacting, by defending myself, things quieted down for a while.
It started again but were less in number. When I didn't react she upped the ante by adding things to her accusation by adding details as if that made it true. I ignore them.

DB,

What time are you getting with your daughter right now?

Now would be a good time to go to court to observe and get familiar with the room.  See when this week the same judge is presiding, and see if you can sit as a spectator to get a feel for the room, how people conduct themselves, and how the judge acts.  An advanced visit can give you quite an edge on the day of the hearing.

WW

I'm curious where you got this idea, WW. In my family court experience, the courtroom was occupied only by the participants -- the judge and her staff, the lawyers and their clients. There's room for spectators, but one would stick out like a sore thumb.

In my court, everyone receives a 9am appointment.

Then the judge looks at who is on the docket. Certain urgent but quick matters were prioritized and handled first, then the quick matters went next.

Then longer hearings like mine went last.

Only then did the judge ask who was in the courtroom and why. Sometimes there were law students there, and sometimes people who were in the wrong courtroom. One time we had a journalist.

A few times there were people who had upcoming hearings and wanted to know how things worked. For one of the hearings, the judge asked the person (kindly) to come another time. For the other hearing, he asked us if it was ok to have people (there were three family members together) in the court during our hearing.

You might be able to call your clerk of court to ask what the norms are for where your hearing will be held.

My county (or state?) is the same, only the two parties go into the hearing room, and the children don't enter either.  Everyone waits in the common lobby area for the clerk or bailiff to send people in.

Good call.

I wrote the below confusing your post with another's post.  This is temp orders, not a trial but I'll leave it as advice you may need sometime in the future.  Temp order hearing is usually brief, perhaps only a half hour.  Judge will be inclined to order 'typical' terms.  You and your lawyer have the task to ensure the judge understands this is not a typical case.  Probably you can't go into all the details, but summarize enough with documentation at hand to get as much as you can nailed down in the temp order.

Who will have temp custody and be the temp Primary Parent with majority time and responsibility for school?  That is foremost.  If you expect obstruction, uncooperativeness and conflict or discord to continue, highlight that.  Can you get Decision Making or Tie Breaker status?  Vacation time is here.  Make sure vacation rules are referenced or quoted in the order.  Also, look up the court's list of possible holidays, strike out any not observed and include that.  Often vague terms like "reasonable" telephone contact or exchanges at "mutually agreed" locations give a blocking ex ways to sabotage things.  Vague expectations in the boilerplate do work for most reasonably normal parents, but not our cases.

Way back when I went to the police station to introduce myself and see how our police responded to DV calls, they handed me the card of a DV advocate at a local nonprofit.  She suggested that I go to court, and offered to bring me.  People get a 9:30am or 1:30am appointment, and I think it works like LnL has said.  There were people for four cases or so sitting in the courtroom waiting to be called.  It was small enough that the bailiff was aware of everyone who was there.  After a while, he asked what we were doing, and we explained I had a case coming up, and he was cool with it.


It can go the other way, too.  Once, we had planned to get a continuance with agreement to both parties on a stipulation and at the last minute it fell through.  I didn't think I'd need to be in court, and my lawyer called me and told me I needed to be there in half an hour.  So, until you've got all the signatures, don't count on any agreement keeping you out of court.

WW

So all the filings are in now. My STBX filed her last 10 pages by the deadline Monday, and in my opinion, she seems to be digging herself into a deeper hole.

It might help everyone here if I laid out the proposals from each side, so you can see what the topics are:

For background, my income is made up of 70% base pay and 30% commissions. For the last 6 months, I've received less than 10% of my target commissions. So, my monthly take-home pay is about 75% of target.

From the Plaintiff (my STBX):
1. STBX permitted to obtain separate housing, while I pay non-taxable support totaling about 90% of my base pay
2. STBX is designated "parent of primary residential custody" (what others have called 'tie breaker' or 'decision maker'. I am allowed every other weekend and dinner on Wednesday
3. I am barred from allowing my parents to visit with my daughter
4. We must advise each other of out of state travel
5. I must attend anger management classes
6. I must pay all shelter costs of our home (mortgage, utilities, etc) (about 50% of base pay)
7. I must maintain insurance coverage
8. I must pay all unreimbursed medical, dental, vision, etc costs
9. I am prohibited from dissipating marital assets
10. I must pay my wife's legal fees, including an immediate retainer as well as any incurred costs to date.


If you add up the above, the total payments being asked for come to 140% of my base pay, which is 40% more than I'm currently making a month. This doesn't even include paying for my basic needs such as groceries, gasoline, etc.

So, this is how I responded:
1. Deny STBX's motion
2. Equal legal and residential custody of our daughter
3. STBX stays in home or finds her own means to pay for an apartment, etc. We each have exclusive parenting on a 5-2-2 schedule with me taking Mon-Tues, STBX has Wed-Thur, and we alternate Fri-Sat-Sun
4. Immediate sale of our marital home and sale proceeds are escrowed
6. Until the home is sold, I pay shelter expenses totaling about 50% of base salary
7. I pay an additional 25% of base salary directly to STBX for spousal and child support
8. Jewelry is appraised and held in escrow
9. Part of my 401k is withdrawn and used for immediate expenses (e.g., legal)


My STBX responded saying that she is sure I'm hiding money, and will seek discovery of my hidden savings. She did some crazy calculations saying that even though I'm not making what she thought I was making, I should still pay more than what my paystubs show because somehow the commissions are just going to show up randomly. I'm somehow hiding my income, I guess. She also reiterated her demand for legal fees.

Given all evidence I submitted with my original motion, I've got to imagine part of this is her attorney sweating bullets. My STBX went into her attorney's office crying poverty and saying she was being financially abused. When I submitted my motion, I also submitted the required information sheet outlining my STBX's extensive assets. My STBX submitted a blank information sheet and claimed I was so abusive that she had no idea what SHE even had, I guess? Regardless, the facts speak for themselves - my STBX has tens of thousands in savings in HER name, as well as an additional tens of thousands in jewelry and other assets.

So that's the deal - I'm really really interested to see how this all gets merged into a final order.

Oh, by the way, in terms of family court, I've actually been to a few trials. In my recent job, the court system was one of my customers. I've tested and installed some of the IT systems they use. It's really interesting, though, to hear about the different ways hearings are held in different jurisdictions. WW, that was a really good suggestion by your DV advocate.

Do you have documentation of your wife's separate bank account assets?

I don't recall if your wife works?  If so, does the court have documentation of her income?  If not, have you asked that the court impute income?

Have you read ":)on't Alienate the Children" yet?  I'm just about done.  Your wife's approach seems typical of an aggressive/extreme approach.  If you have not read it, I'd advise you to hurry through it.  It's good reading.

WW

She can ask for the sun, moon and stars, doesn't mean she will get it.  Courts often seem tone deaf when making appeals for logic but generally courts are "less unfair" than the ex.

If ex is not working, then why not?  Your theme in court needs to be "StbEx can work.  Being a parent does not absolve her from an obligation to support herself, if not now then by the time the transition from married life to post-divorce is completed.  StbEx and I have one child of school age.  Mother, like millions of mothers today, can work while using sitter or daycare services before and after school on her parenting time.

Her legal expenses should come out of her portion of marital assets.  If I advance her money for her legal expenses then it will will be deducted from her portion of marital assets later.  (This is a tough one.  A judge may just order you to pay now and not have it linked to a fix when addressing the financial aspects at the end of the divorce case.  How to avoid that?)

I don't know how my lawyer did it but I only paid child support during my divorce, no spousal support.  Sure, there was alimony for 3 years after the final decree, but I don't think the major income earner can be forced to relinquish too high of a percentage of his income.

About the claim of hiding money or assets, if substantial then a Special Master or forensic accountant can be hired to dig deep.  But if it's only about pay and commissions then a judge ought to be able to review it and see whether there is any validity there.

A caution about being "too fair" ... .most of us here have wonderful qualities for fairness and empathy.  But in our sort of high conflict divorces they're a downside, a risk that we could seriously sabotage ourselves.  So beware of gifting away too much of your income.  Err on the tightwad side, at least a little, that way if the judge grants her a little more, the judge can make it seem she 'won' something.  If you offer too much, judGe probably won't rule that you pay less than you offered!

What does your lawyer say about this?  Yours is a relatively long marriage and may get treated differently than a marriage of 5 or 8 years.

Looks like a typical maximalist opening move. It's an indication that your wife's attorney does not approach negotiation from a cooperative stance. This doesn't mean that anything in her offer will end up in your final deal, but it does suggest that getting to that final deal can be a protracted, expensive experience. (Ask me how I know. Sigh.)

And you got off easy! Only 90% of your pay? My wife's proposed budget for maintenance was 180% of my salary! 

Is this her temporary motion or her proposed settlement? It looks more like the latter. If it's the former, the judge is likely to ignore a lot of this and just focus on immediate needs for support, parenting schedule, etc.

Once you get past the temporary motions, the judge is going to ask your lawyers how they want to resolve the big difference in your settlement proposals -- trial, mediation, etc. The lawyers may also ask for discovery and evaluations prior to mediation or trial -- document discovery, of course, parenting evaluations, mental health evaluations, possibly a forensic accountant to satisfy any claims of hidden accounts and disparities in claimed income.

You're still just at the start of this process. Don't try to think through the end-game too much -- a lot will happen before you get to that, and the final resolution is likely to look very different than either of your proposals.

In what way does she dig a hole for herself? Do you mean with the financial abuse tactic?


My experience with lawyers is that they are ethically bound to represent their clients, so that's what they do -- they represent us. You may have occasion to see your L blow hot smoke at your ex's L in court, and then chatting amicably at a later date. They are colleagues paid to put aside those relationships when they represent their clients in court.

Her L is on retainer, and gets paid whether ex gets everything she wants or not, no?


Is there a discovery or forensic accounting process coming next?

What will your response be to anger management classes?

I notice there are no classes suggested for her... .

My somewhat cynical take on court is that judges rule toward whatever will reduce the most conflict, while sticking to any technicalities (to prevent the chance of any appeals overturning their ruling). They don't want repeat customers and they don't want their rulings overturned in appeal. If you look back over both filings from the perspective of a judge who doesn't want to see you again, living in the same home could create more conflict, even though it saves you money. It took me four years to figure out what was going on in my court, and it could be different than what goes on in yours, but it is possible that you receive a ruling that makes no sense given the facts. Only when I looked at it from the perspective of a judge trying to minimize conflict did anything begin to make sense. That's why people like david and others here talk about solution mindset and -- it's about giving the judge information to rule toward less conflict.

It's hard to predict this stuff.

I hope things go well for you on Friday

 

Gentlemen, whether BPD or modern social immaturity or a combination of both, it is time to be part of "Fathers Rights "movement for changes to the laws that profit this industry and destroy families empowering the selfish (a growing majority) This system enables and enabling does not help BPD sufferers.

Unless you have bad behaviors that can be readily documented to the court, there's no way the court will order Anger Management classes.  Undergoing AM orders indicate some level of serious bad behavior.  Do Not volunteer/agree/settle for AM orders.  No way!  It can and will make you look bad and almost surely would hamper your own efforts to be an involved father.

Of course, if she wants to take Anger Management, no problem, let her.  But there is no basis for you to do so and never ever agree to that.  If a judge orders AM for you then it had better be for valid/solid reasons.

However, it is standard for both parents to be ordered to attend Parenting classes.  Advocate for that.  You can list that, though the court may order that anyway, whether you ask or not.

During our divorce, ex filed three protection orders against me. The courts went along with every one. The first allowed us both to live in the same house ? I realized later that it was the judges way of covering his butt. The second one, ex said she was afraid of me when I came to pick our boys up. I suggested I pick them up at school instead of her residence. Judge loved the idea. It solved a problem for me and our boys too because ex would not let them have the school bags when I went to her place to pick them up. I forget what reason ex had for the third one. Our county hands out protection orders on Wednesday. It's very common and easy to get. If they issue one for three years then you know there is a real reason.
Ex also said I assaulted her and I was ordered to take an anger management assessment. It cost several hundred dollars and said there was nothing to support her claim. It was a waste of time and money.
We went through equitable distribution. Ex claimed I stole 1.2 million in assets. The thing is it didn't total more than around $30,000 and I had solid proof that she was in possession of at least 85% of the things she handwrote in her petition. When her attorney seen some of the evidence they went out of the room and we settled in about 20 minutes. It was in my favor. I actually agreed with her valuation and simply asked for my half in cash. My attorney liked that idea and went with it. We both knew it wasn't going to happen but it changed the "negotiation" in my favor since she had no proof of anything and I had solid evidence. Her attorney diid not want to go in front of a judge with the little evidence she saw especially since I agreed with exs' valuations.
Eventually I built a big moot around me to protect myself from ex and her allegations. I purchased a video camera and an audio recorder. I let her know right away about the camera. It is not allowed in our state but I figured it would protect my from her nonsense. The nonsense just kept costing me money for no good reason. I was always on the defensive and our courts are biased. I got yelled at by several judges since ex always brought it up in court. Never had any consequences. Eventually my attorney said I needed to stop because a judge may do something. I thought about it for a few days and called him up. I asked if it was okay for me to video myself sitting in my car waiting for our boys to come out of her residence or videoing myself whenever ex was near since there is no law against that. He liked the idea and said he could argue that in court. That was in 2010 or 2011. I still have both in my car but rarely use it since exs' behaviors changed. She stopped making allegations because she believes I video every close interaction.
My first attorney was horrible and when I found a good one things did get easier. We worked as a team and he would keep me informed about what to expect and how he saw things playing out. He was correct about everything we were in court for. He was mostly correct about things outside of court. The things he didn't get right were because exs' behavior wasn't expected. I learned to anticipate what she would do in certain circumstances and it got better after that. My attorney started trusting my take on what ex would do in certain circumstances.
We were court ordered to attend coparenting sessions for 10 months. After three meeting the counselor asked me if I wanted to stop attending as he noticed there was no way he could see any compromise. I questioned it since it was a court order and he assured me he could write to the judge and explain I was not the issue. Ex was in the room at the time. I stood up, shook his hand, said thank you, and never looked back.
I would offer what the state minimums are and nothing more as far as money is concerned. Our state has a calculator for child support and alimony. There are many online sites that have the same formula that the courts use.
A friend of mine went through a divorce and felt guilty. He offered much more than was required. I tried talking to him. I told him if he paid the state requirements he could always give her more if he so desired. He didn't do that, the economy changed, his business went south, and he almost lost everything since he was not allowed to renegotiate what he agreed to.
My ex was certain I was hiding money too. My attorney, during equitable distribution, simply said to her attorney that if she wanted to continue making such claims he would insist on ( I forget the name but it is probably similar to forensic accounting). It's an expensive process and her attorney did not call his bluff. Remember, it is a game with a bunch of rules. The better you play the game the easier it is to "win".  "win" -accomplish your goal with the least amount of money and time.

David makes an excellent point.  Do you know what your court's child support calculations are?  Did your lawyer help you review it?  Put your data in as best you can and get a ballpark idea of what it might be.

Key to remember is that offering to pay huge gobs of support beyond what is necessary will not make the court like you any better.  It doesn't care how "overly fair" you are or how "generous" you are with your income.  You're just another case on the docket.  If you offer too much support, the judge won't bother telling you, "Hey, that's an awful lot, more than I would order, are you sure you want to Gift Away that much?"  It will just rubber stamp a high offer.  And as david wrote, you could come to regret being so overly generous if your future earnings fail your hopes.

We're no piling onto your case.  We're for you, not against you.  But when you comment that nearly all your income will be seized by child support and spousal support, something is wrong in the calcs or you're ignoring the standard outcomes.  Believe me, courts know the dad needs enough money to live on, what generally works is that the calcs don't "kill the golden goose" (you).  It's only one child, not 5 or 6.  Yes, she will certainly ask for 130% of your income, that's her entitlement speaking.  And court will let her ask for the moon.  But court won't take 90% of your income either.  If that occurs, then something has seriously gone wrong.  There is nothing wrong in protecting yourself.

If you have previously offered too much support, you can always rescind your offer and say you've recalculated expenses and can't afford the prior offers.  Or you decided to ask the court to do the preliminary calculations.  You have a right to reconsider prior offers.  Well, until the court makes it an Order.

DB,

Perhaps "25% for spousal and child support" was based on the minimum calculations and the round number is just a coincidence.

If not, this isn't even a discussion.  Minimum calculations.

WW

I noticed another concern.  You were proposing to allow her to "live in the marital home or get an apartment".  Without an enforceable timeframe to vacate, it may take much longer than you imagine to sell the home.  What if she fails to sign papers for a realtor?  What if the realtor tells her to prepare the home for showing and she doesn't?  What if realtor wants to show the house to prospective buyers and she declines?  With her sitting in the house she has little incentive to cooperate with the sale process.  What if she demands a higher selling price and buyers walk away?  What if you do find a buyer but she refuses to sign a quit claim deed or whatever other paperwork is needed to complete the sale?

Perhaps the big concern is that 50% of income directed toward a residence.  That's not manageable and especially not for long.  Since you already know neither of you can afford the house post-divorce, try your best to get that 'albatross' sold ASAP.  And that means closing any loopholes that let her delay vacating and selling.

As a general statement on te overall case... .

This is an equitable distribution state;

There is a post-nuptial agreement in place... .which can be contested and over-ruled in this state.

Can you fill us in on PNA?

Yeah -- let me walk you through how the court approaches this in concrete terms.

Let's say between you and your ex, there's $10K/month in income.

The judge is going to look at your budgets. You need some money to live. Your ex needs some money to live. The kids need money to support them. You're both entitled to have living expenses covered, but not to have the same standard of living as you were used to. There may be child support and spousal maintenance formulas, but the bottom line is there is only $10K to divide up.

If your proposed budget plus ex's proposed budget (both including child expenses) exceeds $10K ... .then the judge is going to look to start cutting your budgets to get to $10K.

Good luck! Let us know how it went.

How did things go in court?  I'm sure it was rough.  Why not start a new thread when you're ready to share? 

Hi, DB,

I can't imagine how this battle feels, I'm very sorry, and I'm rooting for you and for a future with your daughter, and happyness for all involved.

Best of luck.

How are you doing DB?

Haven't heard from you in a while.

I hope you're doing ok friend. 

LnL

Hey everyone, I'm so sorry for the extended break - I wanted to give everyone an update for so long, but each night I sit down here, I find I've given all I could give for the day. Tonight I was given just the push I needed so I really appreciate that.

Here is what's going on... .

We had our hearing on temporary orders as scheduled. The night before the hearing I prepped by getting plenty of sleep and got a lot of great supportive encouragement from friends and family.

The hearing procedure itself, at least in my state, is for the attorneys to speak almost exclusively, with only brief questions directed at either my STBX or myself. As you know, we had each submitted our certifications to the court, describing the situation and the circumstances of the marriage from our own perspective. My STBX's perspective was based heavily in emotions and outrageous "facts" with no proof, whereas my certification was very heavy on facts, evidence, and logical statements. As such, my STBX proposal for temporary support and temporary custody was based on her emotional reasoning, whereas I proposed a very reasonable, equitable situation.

It would also help at this point for me to describe the participants. First of all, my STBX did NOT have the feared attorney we all thought she would have. Instead, she had a younger female attorney who was clearly compassionate and had become a negative advocate for my STBX. My attorney was an older, grandmotherly woman who had a ton of experience, and even said to me point blank "I'm a problem solver" - and she was! The judge was also a woman who was very compassionate and experienced. Her clerks and the reporter were both females. The court officer was also a female. So here I am, the only male in this room full of women who clearly were dedicated to their jobs and were about to listen and decide on these orders. I felt very at ease.

As the hearing progressed, it was clear that my STBX and her attorney were getting a lot of questioning looks from the judge. The judge made comments like "have you read what was written here?" and "I am very concerned about the financial picture here." After my attorney raised the subject, the judge came right out and said "You can't enforce this post nuptial agreement and also ask for such high amounts of support. Pick a position." So it felt, to me, like the more logical position I was taking had moved the judge more than the emotional arguments. This seemed very positive to me.

Then, after about 45 minutes, the judge stood up and asked both attorneys to see her in chambers. After about 15 to 20 minutes, they came back out and the judge said: ":)addyBear and STBX? You need to settle this case out of court. You need to see a mediator and you need to come to an agreement. I will give you a ruling on the temporary orders, but it will take some time. If you don't settle this divorce, neither of you will have any money left and you'll have even more debt than you clearly have now. IF you settle, you can both walk away with some small amount from the sale of your home, for example. So go do that, ok?"

And that was that.

I was warned by my attorney that it could be several weeks before the judge issues her ruling. In the mean time, there was a single thing we both seemed to agree on, and that is neither of us wants the marital house and we would like it sold. My STBX requested I pay for her apartment, but I refused. There was nothing that specifically prevented her from getting her own apartment, though, so she decided to move forward on her own. Last week she moved some agreed-upon furniture and other things from the house, and as of this weekend she is no longer living here. What she left behind is quite a mess, but now I can continue what I HAVE been doing which is prepping things for sale and getting my own stuff sorted and packed.

In regards to finances and custody, my STBX and I are more or less making things work ourselves. Of course, we skew more toward what she wants than what I want. Two examples: The default custody arrangement has been alternating weekends and every Wednesday dinner. I tried several times to request 2 overnights a week but with no agreement, so I backed off. The second example is finances - my check still gets deposited into a joint account. I have about 24-48 hours after it gets deposited to withdraw some cash for myself and pay the mountains of bills. My STBX then starts spending as much as she can on clothes, furnishings for her new apartment, and an amount on groceries that seems way out of line. In reality, what happens is that STBX leaves our daughter with me overnight and well into the next day on Thursday, and in the coming weeks I will have quite an extended period of parenting time. So I'm fairly happy with that aspect, because all I'm really missing at this point is one extra overnight. The finances are tough, but I've learned to take more than I think I'll need because it always ends up that she takes 100% of the rest. It's trial and error and I feel like even that is improving.

Overall, things are stable but very very busy. On top of all of this my job has demanded quite a bit extra of me. In fact, the week before the hearing my boss told me he noticed I was distracted in customer meetings and needed to find a way to focus more. He was supportive, but also made it clear that business is business. That was a little stressful but a good wake up call telling me to get things back in balance.

Again, sorry for the extended absence while I balanced things out. I will be more diligent about keeping up and jumping in here.

And, I can't say this enough - thank you so much to everyone for being here and for all the support you're offering me and so many others.

~DB

Hey everyone - I can't thank you enough for all your support - I've started a new thread to give an update

You can check it out here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326663.0

Good job DB!

You are managing a hundred things at a time, and in a very difficult situation. I hope more and more things find their place and you can all be happy and healthy.

So... .you wait weeks before the ruling, but you're supposed to settle things out of court in the meantime?

Meaning, if you two can settle things, the ruling won't be applied?

Weird!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

It's great that you are feeling stabilized, DB. Having her move out must be a huge relief, enough that you seem to be handling the disappearing paycheck without too much consternation. Is there a reason you aren't splitting the deposit 50/50? You may end up footing a lot of the house sale stuff. Do you want to save up a bit to help with that?

What's the plan for the house? I would think you want to move fast on that in case your ex is more motivated to act with this impending judgement. Is she motivated by money? I don't know that money is always a good motivator -- not when emotional regulation is an issue -- but who knows.

DB- what would your lawyer say about you taking half of your paycheck after you deposit it. Seems she's going to spend as much as she can. I don't know your state laws, but as far as I can imagine, she's not entitled to spend as much as she can get.

I am glad you are getting time with your D. While your STBX wife may ask for as much custody as she wants, the reality is that one on one with a child is both wonderful and sometimes emotionally draining. My own experience with BPD mom is that she didn't really have the emotional tolerance for long periods of one on one with children. You should still -of course- ask what you are entitled to, but in the meantime, I think you will see that she does leave your D with you like she is doing now.

To me, it seems like the judge has seen a lot of this type of situation. I hope the outcome is in your favor.

DB77,

Very glad you are grabbing the extra time with your daughter!   |iiii  |iiii

I kept waiting for the story to say "and I expect results of the mediation by (sometime before few weeks)". 

I would certainly encourage you to set up a mediation ASAP. 

Perhaps something is missing here.

Also... .at some point I would be interested in learning more about the post-nuptial.  I'm considering one.

FF

Do I recall that your wife has significant savings that she has stashed in her own name?

If so, why is she still accessing your paycheck?

Yeah... I'm very curious about this as well, although I'm struggling to remember details of your financial picture.

I'm guessing you are balancing a desire to show reasonableness on your part with unreasonableness on her part.  Hopefully the decision to continue to give her access (with apparently little control) has been worth it.

FF

I married and divorced a BPD with children.  I have been through the legal divorce process and it’s going to be on-going and bumpy ride for you... .and it’s going to get ugly.  I was in the same “pre-divorce” Pollyanna proceeding that you are now experiencing…where you think the BPD is going to be reasonable and you don’t mind compromising more than you should for the sake of your D.   If the BPD is spending on material things for herself now, you are setting a precedence as to her “needs” when things start to ratchet up. And they will ratchet up.  You need to protect yourself and your D.   I don’t know what the custody rules are in your state.  They all differ.  But you need to plant a flag NOW….as to what her assets are and what your assets are.  It appears she has some assets. Talk to your attorney.  This is necessary to establish what she can do for herself and what you need and want to do for your D.      You need to think down the road and not about the current legal proceedings.  BPD have no empathy.  You will soon discover they are going to manipulate you and your daughter to extract a lifestyle for themselves.  Sadly, this happened to me and many other nonBPDs.  You are focused on your D, and the BPD will be more focused on “punishing” you for leaving her. 
If a few weeks, you will realize that the dust has not settled.   BPD thrive on chaos. You need to fasten your seatbelt.  BPD don’t really have a sense of shared custody and going by the rules.  If you have a boilerplate custody schedule, it will be violated.  I went back to court two times (and won)…not on a custody issue, but on the parenting scheduling. It was total family chaos. Make sure you have a pretty defined annual parenting schedule as to when you see your D and have alternating custody on major holidays and events…. because you will need to show the court later on that it was violated…and it will be violated. Plan ahead and plan on the chaos.  In my state, the court frowns upon violating a parenting schedule.   Also, factor in therapy costs for your D.  Read as much as you can about PAS.  Parent Alienation Syndrome.  Once the divorce is finalized and you are living in separate households, the BPD will start putting your D in the middle of all the parent disputes.  My BPD put my sons in the middle during the ages of 6-17…and they internalized all the lies and manipulations.  It wasn’t until they became young adults did they begin realizing that I wasn’t the bad guy.
Ask your attorney about getting a guardian ad litem (GAL) for you D. Get one that is an attorney…not a social worker.  You have your attorney, your STBX has hers.  The GAL represents the children in court.  It’s worth the expense.
Stop having phone conversations with your STBX.  Only do so if the subject is about your D. Steer away from all other topics. And eventually wean yourself off of all conversations.  It will help YOU get some clarity on things. Tell the BPD that you only want to communicate via email or text messages…AND SAVE THEM.  (Tell the BPD that you just don’t want to upset her…with verbal conversations…hence email/texts). Get the BPD to talk about the divorce proceeding via email/text. You will need them later for your attorney when it comes to round 2 and 3.  There is more, but you need to get some things set up now…while you are still in the honeymoon phase of the pre-divorce proceedings.  I hope I am wrong. But Good luck!

I'm also curious about the money.  What percentage do you take to cover the bills? If it's not half I'd take half (or maybe less but in line with guideline child support given the custody schedule). Or stop or redirect the auto deposits, get a personal account and deposit what's fair into the joint account. 

Hey DB, how is it going?

The money thing has me baffled. Does your attorney say you have to do that. If you don't I would stop putting it in a joint account. My ex endorsed a few checks that were written to me, deposited them in a joint account, and emptied the accounts when the checks cleared. She had no consequences in court for that. She had a good job at that time.

Hey everyone, long time no talk! 

I took a little "summer vacation" from bpdfamily, and I do apologize to anyone who was tracking my story but was left hanging by my absence. I started out thinking I'd need a few weeks to clear my head after the sudden end to my 18 year marriage, but it turns out I needed a lot more. And a lot less.

A full recap would take a long time, so if anyone is interested, these three threads (one, two, and three) should give you a pretty good background of what's been going on. In a tiny little nutshell, I am currently 3 months into the divorce process after a 15 year marriage to an uBPD. The marriage was very much like most of the relationships described here, and included a great deal of emotional and psychological stress. I also put myself and my family into a great deal of financial hardship by living beyond our means in an attempt to "please" my uBPDstbxw and to "save" the marriage. I am extremely happy to say that the old forms of emotional and psychological stress ended the day my uBPDstbxw announced she had filed for divorce. The financial stress is getting worse, but I'm in a position to be able to sell the house now and hopefully take the kinds of measures I needed to take to get back on track. It's nearly impossible to make mutual decisions while co-parenting our D5, so this presents its own form of stress. On the one hand, the courts are in place to make these decisions when we can't come to an agreement on our own. On the other hand, the costs have been astronomical so far and are only getting worse.

To add one little twist to my story, you may recall that I connected with a friend about 2 months ago and we ended up feeling some significant mutual attraction. We've taken a couple of opportunities to briefly meet in person, but we have no plans currently to spend any significant time together beyond that. Things continue to evolve slowly with that friendship / relationship. We are both still legally married, and we both have children involved. As such we are keeping ourselves (and each other) appropriately focused on our number one priorities and just patiently waiting to see what happens after we've both sufficiently resolved our own situations. She is an amazing, amazing person and I am very grateful to have her in my life, and I am certain the feeling is mutual.

My D5 is doing amazingly well, and I have to say that divorcing WAS probably THE best answer to any difficulties she was having. Every parent worries about staying or leaving and what the best option is. I can say from personal experience that the stress and anxiety of two parents who constantly fight and are openly hostile to one another puts WAY more stress on a child than living in two separate homes ever could.

I recently got to spend two straight weeks with D5 and it was the best and hardest 2 weeks of parenting I've had so far. I'm still working a full time job through all this - like I said, my finances are horrible and there's no savings to allow any sort of leave or break in employment. So for the two weeks I had D5 exclusively, I rapidly learned the more stressful parts of being a single parent. My car broke down twice unexpectedly, I was late to a handful of meetings which resulted in difficult conversations with my manager. One of the most surprising things that happened was that I experienced a lot of resistance from other coworkers who didn't understand my desire to be a fully involved dad. While there's often this talk in corporate jobs about "family comes first," I really tested those limits the past couple of weeks. I found out that "family comes first" only means when it doesn't affect any other priority that applies to the business. Need to be home for a sick kid? Sorry. That's not really what we meant. Why don't you call the mom? What about Grandma? Maybe there's an aunt? How about your retired neighbor?

So to talk a little about the ending of the marriage itself and how the relationship with my uBPDstbx is evolving... well? Not very well. I think a little story about my mother's birthday pretty much sums it up.

As many will recall, my uBPDw was particularly paranoid when it came to my family of origin. In particular, my mother was never once allowed to see our D5 at any point so far in her 5 years of life. Now, I think that's extremely cruel and unfair. It's most certainly unfounded, as my mother is very kind and loving toward her other two grandchildren, as well as being extremely supportive of myself and my two brothers. There are many exaggerations and downright cruel and truly paranoid ideas my uBPDw had over the years, too many to list here. The problems I created for myself along the way all had to do with my attempts to validate and soothe my uBPDw's anxieties over these paranoid ideas. Many times, I would "go along" with these thoughts to try and move us past them and get to a better place in the relationship.

Well, when it came time for my uBPDw to file, she brought ALL of these paranoid ideas out into open court by putting them first in the complaint for divorce and then also in her request for temporary orders for custody and support. Fortunately, I had very well thought out responses and plenty of evidence to counter any accusation. The problem is, in my jurisdiction, the family court judge we were assigned takes MONTHS to give her orders. So we had our hearing in late May, and here we are in late July and still no orders.

So with the orders taking forever, and with no obvious or stated legal limitations on my custody time, I had planned to take D5 to see her grandparents for the first time. My D5 was VERY excited for the trip and on the night before, talked a lot about it on a phone call with uBPDw. The next morning, we're packed and in the car when I get a call from my attorney. As it turns out, my uBPDstbx had called her attorney who was prepared to get an emergency order restraining me from taking D5 out of the state. She was threatening to take all the evidence she had collected and put it in front of a new judge to get the orders signed that day. My attorney said there's no way it would stick, but there's a good chance the judge would err on the side of caution and issue the temporary order. If I violated the order by leaving that morning and not returning, the police could be called to arrest me. All of this would cost huge amounts of money in legal fees to fight, and so I canceled the trip.

At no point did my uBPDstbxw call me, explain her position first, or do anything directly with me before she went straight to the lawyers. And this pattern has repeated over and over again, from complex things like the trip to simple things like deciding how and where exchanges were to occur.

So anyway, despite all of this, I do find myself in good spirits most of the time. I'm working out my issues with my manager and reengaging in my job as I've been instructed to. I'm keeping all my e-mails brief informative friendly and firm. I'm cutting costs everywhere I can. And most importantly, I'm staying fully engaged and involved with my daughter as she gets ready to start kindergarten in a little over a month!

Sorry again for the leave of absence and to leave everyone hanging. I'm looking forward to staying as engaged as possible here and as always, I really appreciate having these forums!

~DB

Hey everyone, thanks for bumping this up. Sorry, I took kind of a breather for a while so I could sort out what to do next.

Yeah, so, I've asked 3 attorneys now the same question about what I can do with my paycheck going into a joint account. Each of them said, don't change anything until you get the judge's orders. I've made sure I understood their directive each time. They were very clear.

Now, I should be clear that while the marriage was in full swing, we lived way beyond our means. If you add up all the usual expenses from each month, we far exceeded my base salary, and only occasionally make ends meet when bonuses and commissions come in. So my priority the past few weeks and months has been cutting all extra costs, canceling cable, etc. I've managed to bring my own personal costs to where I can live reasonably. Now I'm just waiting for the orders so I can divide out the direct deposit to protect my costs and give her what's agreed to.

The problem will be if the judge comes back and says I have to pay more than was proposed. My lawyer and I worked out very good, thought out numbers and they would allow me to make ends meet each month. My STBX's attorney used some very confusing math to propose me paying about 4 times what I proposed. So we'll see but the money aspect is probably the thing that's most up in the air in terms of the temporary orders.

If you haven't guessed it so far, I'm still waiting for the orders. My STBX increased the delay by requesting that the judge admit another e-mail she found AFTER the hearing. To my surprise, the judge allowed it to be submitted, but also gave me the opportunity to respond. I submitted my response to my attorney a week ago, and now I'm waiting for my attorney to review it and file it.

So the sad truth is that NOTHING had happened with my case since I last posted here, other than more delays.

I also just posted another update here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327524.0) on the more relationship-y side of things.

Hey DB,

Haven't forgotten you at all amigo! I'm on vacation at the moment, so just some quick drive-by hugs. Good to hear you are making it through these tough times with your spirt intact! That is not an easy feat!       

wishing you the best in every way! ~pearl.  :)

Sadly, this is the norm. I think I was among those who mentioned the hurry up and wait aspect of court.

I recently celebrated (?) the second anniversary of my filing for divorce. Though the court can take a month or two between actions, and there is the occasional administrative hold when the system is backed up, the main cause of delay is my ex and her attorney's non-cooperative posture. Long delays in responding, missed deadlines for filings, making every mediation step contentious. A particular trick to watch for is if you get agreement in mediation -- verbal and a quick outline written down and signed... .and then they introduce new obstacles when converting the informal write-up into the formal judgement and decree.

Don't count on good faith negotiation being rewarded in kind. Hang in there!

I'm really sorry to hear about the party -- but glad to hear D5 is thriving! I also noticed a change with my daughter when we separated and the nightmare life at home ended.

It's going to be something of a roller-coaster with her, too. As memory fades of what home life was like, and she listens to her mom constantly blaming me, my daughter will sometimes side with her in a battle I never asked her to participate in. But, I demonstrate through love and parenting what my priorities are, and this hasn't been a major issue for us.

Thanks for the update!  Glad D5 is doing well.  I'm sorry to hear about the friction with your stbx, but it's to be expected as you know, even if it is disappointing.  Have you had a chance to read my favorite book, Don't Alienate the Kids?  It's a go-to resource for handling custody issues with a high conflict person (I think your situation qualifies  ).  And I'm sorry to hear about the cancelled trip.  That must have been beyond frustrating and disappointing.

WW

DB, it's so great to hear from you.  Whilst I'm sorry to hear that things are tough, I think we know that's going to be par for the course.  I still wish for an easier ride for you though. 

From what you've said, I must say that you're making some good decisions and seem to be holding up pretty well with everything that's happening.  It's really good to hear that you're getting quality (albeit challenging work wise) time with your daughter and that she is doing well.  I think that's testament to how well you're coping and the positive impacts upon you both of the dramatic change in circumstances. 

I'm saddened to hear that your planned momentous occasion of granddaughter meeting grandmother didn't pan out.  All being well, this can be back on the table in due course and hopefully soon.  Just keep on doing what you're doing and let us know how things progress.  You've got this! 

Love and light x   

Hi DB, 

Good to get an update from you.  |iiii

I had a thought after reading about the sad news of having to cancel your trip to see Grandma. Does your mom ever do face time when D5 is with you, or could she write letters to your D5 and have these come only to your location of course? I'm thinking that really it is only a matter of time before they meet in person and she can begin to learn who Grandma is even before then. Is it possible for your mom to come and visit you?

 
Wools