BPDFamily.com

MOD NOTE:  This thread is a continuation of part one found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329144.0;all


Thanks too many dogs,

I wish I had a good protect dog. My roommate has one, but he's a big baby.

I don't know if I posted this here, but I did tell someone in a pm. I have been in the local dv shelter here twice. It's the only shelter in our area as the surrounding counties are small towns and rural areas. Both times I was not assigned a counselor or advocate. I was prohibited from any contact with the abuser, regardless of having kids together or whatever. I was moved both times to a local homeless shelter. The staff was verbally abusive and controlling there. Cell phones were taken away and we were not allowed to leave the premises for thirty days. They treated everyone as if we were in drug rehab, accusing everyone of using. They falsely accused me of failing a drug test. They would not show me the results nor let me take another one. The director made the comment, "well, I don't think cps will take your baby for this but I don't know... ." I was pregnant at the time and I took that statement as a veiled threat. I had to walk to work every day, pregnant, in 95 degree heat because they would not help me with transportation. One staff member did pick me up once when it was raining. She was fired about a week later, and since she lived at the shelter, this put her and her children on the street.

I left after the director of the shelter followed me out to the parking lot as I was trying to leave for work, screaming at me that I should just "go back and live with your little boyfriend!"

I have exhausted all the options this town gives for domestic violence victims, which isn't much. On top of that, my h knows where all the shelters are. It's a "big small town" where we live, and people talk when they shouldn't. The security of that dv shelter was compromised years ago.

So you see why I have been feeling so stuck. I'm just as safe at my current residence as I would be at that shelter.

Cat, I have thought about the park or something. He doesn't have transportation there, the bus doesn't run that far. S2 would probably be disturbing at the library.
I expect a lot of push back and dysregulation if i attempt to restrict the visitation in any way so I am stressed.

I plan to speak to my T soon. She knows the long history of this relationship.

Thanks for your support. Don't know what I would do without this community.

Redeemed

I'm glad you will speak to your T soon. There's got to be a safe way for him to have visitation without it putting you at risk. Being alone in his motel room doesn't seem like a good idea.

I'm assuming you've got your van now. Maybe you could meet him at his workplace? Is there a nearby park there? I hope you remain in the public eye when you're with him in the future.

Cat

Yes, I do have the van but not the title yet. He asked me if I let anyone else work on it. As if I had time for that yesterday. He is trying to control the situation because he wants to be the one who fixes it. Thermostat, radiator flush, possible heater core, all according to him. Last night he said he won't tell me what all needs to be done to it because he doesn't want to overwhelm me. Said we will do a little at a time. This sounds like a plan to insert himself into my life for an extended period.

He wants control of who does the repairs and what repairs are done. Anxiety that I will let someone else do it probably contributed to his reasoning for keeping the title.

He has also been repeatedly telling me that he wants to know who is keeping his son. I told him in general who has him on weekends, not her name or where she lives. He knows my coworker who also keeps s2, but he has a problem with that because her brother is a very distant ex of mine. He can't stand that I am making the decision of who keeps s2. Says he has a right to know. I think that means he thinks he has a right to tell me who can and can't keep him.

I definitely do not feel comfortable being alone with him. So I need to do some research and find out what options would be available for visitation other than what we are doing. He's already pressing me to let him keep s2 alone while I work. I'm conflicted about that. He has always been a devoted caregiver to s2. Abuse was only directed towards me.

He had the mindset of s2 being good, perfect, innocent... .and I was bad, the enemy, against him, untrustworthy, etc.

Is that splitting? I read somewhere that pwBPD do that sometimes with either two children or a spouse and a child.

Thanks again,

Redeemed

It’s good that you’re seeing that he’s using van repairs as a pretext to insert himself into your life.

Regarding your son, up until recently he didn’t have a right of visitation so now he’s trying to control who looks after him while you’re at work! SMH

Perhaps you can research some other DV services in your vicinity. After what horrible treatment you experienced from the one you previously used, I can see why you’d avoid that one. However they’re not all like that, thankfully. Who would want to get abused again after escaping from an abuser?

Please see if you can find one where they can help you work out visitation issues. If you can’t find a different one locally, perhaps you could chat with someone in a more distant area or find an online resource.

Yes, I think I will try to find another resource. I looked up statewide resources and that's the one locally.

Just for some more clarity on the ways he pressures me:

I am at my co-workers house babysitting. He texts and asked me what I am doing and said he needs to pick up the van to work on it.
I said no. He is not coming here, I will not tell him where the house is.
He said he is ordering parts and wants to work on it after work.
This is the spur of the moment stuff that causes me daily anxiety.

I don't know how to respond, so I haven't. He said it seems like I don't have much time. I think that is a way of saying that I don't have much time to do whatever he wants whenever he gets the impulse to do it. I spent seven years being expected to jump whenever he spontaneously decided that he was going to do something and wanted my cooperation. Didn't matter what else I had going on, he was supposed to take precedence.

I'm feeling really frustrated and irritated.

Redeemed

My first husband did that too—I was supposed to jump at his command. 

He’s gotten used to pulling your strings. Have you told him that you don’t want him to work on your van?

Also how is he able to get around town without a vehicle? And then if he picked up your van, he’d be driving without a license.

If he is that mobile, he should be able to meet you in public somewhere for his visitation times.

My guess is that he was planning on having a co-worker drive him over here on lunch break. And yes, he would be driving without a license again.

No, I haven't told him that I am no longer comfortable with him fixing the van, and I also haven't told him I don't want to be at the hotel room for visitation with s2.

These conversations bring lots of anxiety. The way he acted the other night was so much like he used to act, I feel like I went into some kind of PTSD mode and I don't feel as strong as I did.

I suppose that is natural, but it sucks. I get angry sometimes about it.

Also have caught myself wondering if I overreacted to the situation the other night. Asking did I blow it out of proportion, is my fear justified.

Then I realize that is exactly the kind of thinking that kept me stuck in the abuse. Almost like I didn't feel like I had a right to say or do anything about it if a few days or weeks had passed, because the threat wasn't immediately present. So I told myself I would do something next time. But I never figured out what to do, until I had to flee in desperation.

I am wondering if I have the strength to resist all this pressure, or stand up to it. I feel worn down and drained. That's a weakened state. I know that bad decisions get made in this kind of mindset. I am trying not to let hopeless thinking seep in.

Redeemed

Huge for you to see this.

I hope this empowers you to define the relationship on your terms.

Lots of issues starting to pop up.  1 thing at a time.  Get the title.  That's it... .don't comingle it with van work (no reason to ever mention this to him)... visitation... .or anything else.

Get the title... or do the lost title thing. 

The other issues will be there in a day... week... month.  He can wait.

FF

Redeemed, I do not think you are blowing things out of proportion.  Reasonable folks are always checking themselves to make sure they are reasonable.  It can get us in trouble when we're with folks who have an alternate sense of reality and  try to make it appear as if we're being unreasonable.  We start to believe it.

When really out of control things happen, like assaults, we can start to lose sight of the smaller boundaries.  He kissed you when you didn't want him to.  He gave you a hickie when you didn't want him to.  Those may seem like small boundaries compared to assault and the violations you've seen, but they are not.  You deserve to pick the person, time, and place for a kiss or a hickie.  Period.  Boundaryless contact with your abuser is going to stop your recovery cold.

You said you are feeling ambivalent about letting him see S2 alone.  Knowing his history, everything he had done, and all of his mental health and behavioral concerns, if he weren't S2's dad, would you hire him as a babysitter?  He is using a van as a means of power and control over you.  How potent would it be if he tried to start using S2 as a means of power and control?  I'm not encouraging you to swing the pendulum the other way, to absolutely no contact with his son.  But the challenge of doing it in a way that is safe both for you and for S2 is one that must be met.

Am I misremembering or did long ago you say that you were on OK terms with his mom?  Is there any chance she could help with visits? 

RC

Hi Redeemed, I think you are making good progress talking through these issues one by one with the group. Please keep us posted on every facet of your situation you have time to. The more data we have to work with, the better we can work together to come up with some solutions.

There's a lot to cover here but I'd like to piggyback on a few of WW's ideas:


I second this completely. One of my most remembered of my wife's violations against me had nothing to do with violence. She asked me to hold her beer can when there was absolutely no reason to. When I said no, she proceeded to smile and put the cold beer can on my thigh (just joking around, haha). I told her to stop. I saw it was a power move and had I not handled it, it might have let to bigger violations. A hickie or unwanted touch is not a small thing. Worse, if you continue to allow it, it potentially opens the door to more serious harassment. I would put a high priority on this boundary.  


I've had to ask myself a similar question. You need to stay focused on S2's practical safety here. I would think that any engagement between the two of them would need some form of supervision. And any meeting between you and him has to take place in a public setting where police would not be too far off if there was any emergency.

~ROE

Keep focus on this... .this is a big part of what we can help with at bpdfamily.

I like the Mom idea as well... .something to at least explore.

FF

RC, ROE, and FF,

Thanks for your validation. I recognize my tendency to continue to allow myself to be put in uncomfortable situations because I don't like conflict and I end up doing what I know internally is not the best choice. Simply because standing up for myself and my boundaries is unfamiliar and I am not used to doing it well. I don't like that and I want to change it.

I am concerned about his mental state. But a voice in my head keeps telling me that I left s2 with him before, sometimes just after he assaulted me. Though I felt I didn't have other options at the time. I didn't want to do it then, and was afraid I was making a terrible decision.

His mother and I have a great relationship, but she lives 45 minutes away. He's already hinted around that he wants me to take him to see her.

He calls her and tells her things that sound like we are getting along and spending time together. She gets the real story from me. She is also a dv survivor.

He wants to spend more time with s2 and me. He doesn't have the first clue that his behavior the other night might be a good indicator that his contact should be restricted, not increased. Though he did apologize for the hicky.

When I was attempting to de-escalate and I spoke in a calm tone and told him that his behavior was scary, he went into denial mode and his mood switched to his "normal" act, where he pretends that what just happened didn't happen and he said he knew that I was just trying de-escalate and so he decided that I didn't mean anything I was saying, and he couldn't believe anything I was saying. Though he wasn't angry. It was a controlled, I'm not crazy act.

Seen that before too.

Redeemed

What's going on with the title?


How about this for a plan.

You call and chat with Mom.  How long since you last talked?

"I'm trying to do the right thing here and get (pwBPD) time with S2.  I'm hoping you can help.  Can you come over on (date) so you guys can go to McDonald's playland and then perhaps some time at the park."

I'm seeing a couple hour thing.  Then you pick up and take S2 on for other things with you.

Back up and look at big picture.  People seem to be asking YOU to drive and do this and that and the other...

How about you set conditions for him to see S2?  He either does... or doesn't.  His choice.

FF

formflier has some great points here about involving Mom. And if he really wants to see S2, he can make the effort to visit y'all in a public place.

The thing about the mil thing I'd, she doesn't have a car either. She lives in a very rural area and is living on disability. She also has lupus, and has temporary custody of her four months old great grandchild who is special needs due to being born addicted to meth.

That addiction runs in their family.

Redeemed

Then... remember. 

Who is responsible for your hubby NOT seeing S2?

Very important to keep that clear.

MIL may not be able to help.  Not your place to "help" her "help".

Solve your issues... .let others solve theirs.

What's up with the title?

FF

He still has the title, but said he will give it to me. Said I need to get repairs done before I drop money on tags. Said his boss at the shop agrees with him about that and said that I can go through the shop to get car repaired and boss said that he will give me decent price, which he has before because I have done business there since forever.

Idk this is overwhelming me. On top of this, my daughter turned ten yesterday and I didn't get to spend her birthday with her. I will get to see her tomorrow, but it's hard as a mom to think of your child on her birthday and not get to see her.

Redeemed

Thank him for his advice and set up a time to get the title.

Repairs are separate issue.

Your car... your decision... you do appreciate his input.

If he puts you on the spot if you are going to "do the title"... .your response is... ."I've got to give that some thought, please be available if I have more questions."

If he wants to get into "why not leave the title with me until you are ready"... .your response is "That doesn't work for me... "

No explanations

I am redeemed,

Not trying to be pushy or bossy... .but I get it, this is overwhelming and it's hard to think... .he is pushing hard.

Stick to that script... he either will or won't give it to you.

Less is more.

FF

Now... separate post about decision making.

Your pwBPD may be right about repairs before title. 

I'm a shade tree mechanic... .so if you want to chat stuff through you can post her or PM me.

Thermostat is solid thing to do on used vehicle.  Usually cheap, but a bad thermostat can cause loads of problems.

So... if you want to chat about the repairs that have been suggested... I'm open.

Again... .keep this separate from getting possession of the title.

FF

It really is difficult to think straight about anything when feeling under such pressure and so overloaded.  Would bombarded be an appropriate description?  I felt bombarded and my anxiety was through the roof in my own situation.  Redeemed, how much are you communicating with him since this worrying face to face experience?  How can you help yourself to feel less overwhelmed?  Try to take one thing at a time.  What feels like the most important and pressing issue for you to act on right now?  What do you feel you want to do?  Bite sized chunks are much easier to digest than a whole chaos pie.  How are you doing for sleep?


Oh Redeemed   That has to be so hard for you.  I can't imagine how upsetting you must find it to be away from her on such a special occasion.  Was it because you were denied the opportunity to see her or because of other circumstances?  I hope that you are able to be fully present with her when you see her and just enjoy your time together, putting all else out of your mind for that precious time.  It will do you good to give yourself permission to simply be with her and release everything else temporarily.  

Did you manage to get in touch with a DV support service?  If you've had no joy yet in finding an alternative to the places you've been previously, here's a link that you can use to search local services, both in your immediate area and within other nearby areas.  Local DV support services (https://www.domesticshelters.org/)  

Redeemed you're dealing with so much right now and are having some amazing personal realisations.  Be kind to yourself and show yourself the compassion you have for others.  You do not have to do anything that doesn't feel right to you.  There is always a choice.  Trust your feelings.  When all the words are whirling around in your ears and head, quiet them by paying attention to the feelings within your body.  They are a good indicator of whether something sits well with you or not.  It is your right to act in accordance with that.  

Love and light x

IMR, I don't know what else to say except my heart is with you.

My uBPD/uNPD H has not gone to far as to threaten me, but he has broken objects and hollered at me.  I took the MOSAIC inventory and it came up 7 of 10 that the violence will continue or escalate.

Above all, be safe and keep you loved ones safe, which includes children (if any) and pets (if any.) 

 

Thanks HQ,

Bombarded is a better word. I have still had daily contact with him. I am treading carefully, I want to get the title without having to go through the lost title route. I don't want to inconvenience the seller, because I know he is in the middle of a move out of state.

I see my kids once a week, every Thursday. Things like birthdays and Christmas are not cause for extra visitation, according to my sister. She makes no extra effort to give me more time with my kids. In fact she has actively worked to estrange them from me, teaching them to call me by my first name, and call her Mom. Even the therapeutic visitation counselor we used to have picked up on this and disagreed with it. I haven't seen my kids in three weeks because of the car breaking down. My sister simply cancelled the visitation when I didn't have a ride.

So for me, getting this van running in good shape and registered in my name is a huge priority.

Also a number one priority is keeping myself and s2 safe and not slipping back into patterns of doing what someone else wants me to do just because I am afraid of what will happen if I don't. Obligation and guilt are not easy, but I have been able to overcome those more than the fear. I have a high anxiety level anyway, almost disorder level anxiety, and this just adds to it.

I have not contacted the dv hotline yet. I got on the website and then I had to stop to see what s2 needed, and I was so tired last night I fell asleep before I could get back on. I only slept a few hours a night since Sunday, when the incident happened. I'm exhausted and living on energy drinks. Not healthy, I know.

Trying to see if my therapist has a cancellation this week so I can see her.

Thanks asking why! Your support means a lot to me.
Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

I'm going to take one thing at a time here and focus on the above.

Turn the tables for a moment and put yourself in the shoes of the seller.  Exactly how much inconvenience are we talking? I don't know about titles, tags etc as it's totally different here. Maybe filling in a form, making a phonecall, printing something, posting it perhaps?

If you were the seller, would you be happy to help someone who just paid you $1200 or would you prefer they be bombarded, abused and possibly risk their safety to achieve the same thing?  What sounds most reasonable to you?

Taking hold of the bombardment will reduce your anxiety level more than you can imagine.  You need some room to breathe, relax and think straight. As the healthier person in this marriage it is down to you to define what healthy looks like and demonstrate that. I'd suggest it will take a boundary on the level of contact in order to protect your mental health Redeemed.

Redeemed I say all this with love.  You will struggle as much as you allow yourself to.  There is always a choice.  Please choose to be kind and loving towards yourself.  I know it's difficult to make that shift after so long putting everyone else first.  If it helps, tell yourself you're doing it for S2.  He needs his mother to be safe, to protect and care for him and as long as you're in the thick of this, sleeping very little and surviving on energy drinks, you can't be your best for him.  I wish someone had said these words to me.  

Love and light x

Ok, really creeped out... .

He texted earlier and said something happened at work that stressed him out and to please pray for him. I asked him what and he didn't say. He said he was going to lunch later, wanted me to bring van to check coolant level. I said I was going to get my daughter some birthday stuff. I ended up staying home and getting ready to go now, because s2 was cranky and needed a nap.

He texted me as s2 was falling asleep and said "hope you find everything ok".

Fine, whatever. Then... .

An hour later texted and asked "are you wearing black pants".

And I am.

And that is creepy.

I didn't say yes or no. I just asked why.

No answer.

What the... .

Redeemed

Redeemed how are you feeling?  I trust that you're keeping doors and windows secured?  What do you feel would be your best course of action given he's let you know he's been watching you at home?  You've kept the texts I hope?

I want to share with you a link to a site which allows you to search DV resources in your local area.  I'd encourage you to use it and make some calls.  The site will show what services are available at each of the locations.  It may be worth calling them all to see what they can offer you by way of speedy personalised support.

Find local support here (https://www.domesticshelters.org/)

Love and light x

Hi Redeemed, apologies since I must have missed this point somewhere earlier in the thread, but does he have your address? I remember you saying earlier on he didn't and you were doing everything to keep him from finding out.

Seconding HQ that it would be best to have a plan in place in case the situation escalates.

Sending you strength,
Roland

ROE,

Yes, he knows my address now. I keep the doors locked but the windows don't lock, which has always made me nervous.

I think the black pants thing was a lucky guess, because he later sent one about me wearing something else that was tight, which was totally wrong.

He has a habit of saying things that try to make me think he knows something he doesn't, in an effort to "trip me up" and get me to make an unwitting admission and confirm his suspicions. The thing about that is, his suspicions are never true.

He told me yesterday that he is having someone keep tabs on me, for two reasons:

1) he thinks that I am doing the same to him
2) he wants to know where s2's babysitters live because he has "a right to know"

I'm getting sick of this crap.

Redeemed

Also, for those who may not have read what I posted earlier, there is only one dv resource in my area. The services they offer include emergency shelter for women in fear of their lives, contingent upon agreement to cease any and all contact with the abuser, help getting protection orders, help getting a divorce, counseling, and a support group.

I have been to this agency twice before. I was never assigned a counselor, but I also already have a counselor who I have seen off and on for eight years. I was moved both times from the emergency shelter to a local homeless shelter where the staff was abusive and controlling. The support group was OK except the woman in charge of child care kept interrupting to pull me out because she couldn't get my child to settle down. Currently I don't have a free night to even attend a support group.

And even if I were to try to go back to the shelter for the third time, my husband knows where it is.

I live in the South, in what we refer to as a big small town. I have been to the one and only dv shelter here twice, and I have been in both homeless shelters. The homeless shelters here are used by the court system as halfway houses for women in the drug court program, meaning that most of the residents are court ordered to stay there. As a result, the shelters are run as if everyone is court ordered there because of drug problems, and they treat you as if you wouldn't be there if you had been living your life correctly.

The last time I was in the dv shelter, they were about to set me up in my own apartment until at the last minute I found out my roommate was moving into it instead of me. They didn't even tell me. I asked why and they said the director had decided that I hadn't been working at my job long enough then and she wasn't sure if I could afford the rent. Yet they gave it to my roommate who had also just started a new job.

The next day they moved me to the shelter where I was talked down to, followed, spied on, told that I needed to quit my new job to take their "classes", and had my cell phone taken away twice because someone else broke a rule and everyone had to turn in their phone as a result.

I'm sure this is shocking to some people. These organizations get lots of praise in the local news for their services, but the reality is that I found it to be unsupportive. And the second time I went back to the dv shelter, the director of the shelter talked down to me for leaving the first time and going back to him.

I will see my therapist soon.

Redeemed

Hey Redeemed,
You certainly have more than enough to deal with without being talked down to, demeaned, guilted for having wanted to keep your family together, and being subjected to unfounded accusations and other indignities. Keep posting here and we'll do our best to help you.   

Cat

Thanks Cat,

I understand why several people have encouraged me to reach out to local dv services, as that is still the advice I would give to someone else regardless of my personal experience in this location.

It's just frustrating to me that there is only one option available for dv services here, and basically what they told me both times is that they only provide services for women who "are fleeing an abusive relationship". The provision of services is only available for women who have ceased all contact. They believe that if you're so scared of him, why would you still be talking to him.

Some of the volunteers there understood better, but they don't make the rules.

Recently, a center opened up here that centralizes the dv services office, legal services, and law enforcement. I sent an email to the director. Even the same agency is providing the dv services, I still may talk to this woman and find out if the same people are in charge of the dv services. Sometimes a different person will have a different perspective, and I realize that I am discounting the possibility of help based on the experience I had three years ago, and seven years ago.
I just still struggle with what exactly it is that I even need. I have a counselor, a protective order, and a place to stay. I still plan to move within the next six weeks, after this car repair issue is done.

I guess I just don't know what kind of services there would be for a conflicted woman who is still in contact with her abuser, while trying to maintain safety and boundaries and trying to still allow him to see his son while at the same time wishing she could just cut contact for a while and get some peace.

I sometimes wish I had just filed divorce in the first place and we could have put a parenting plan on legal paper.

I'm tired of the constant attempts at contact. I am tired of hearing about how much he misses me. I am tired of hearing him break down crying when talking to s2 and telling him stuff that makes no sense, such as "these people don't realize what they're doing, this world is evil, someday we'll be together, etc". I am tired of him telling me to figure out what he needs to do to get better, and to coordinate it so it doesn't interfere with his work hours.

I'm tired of being pushed to resume a relationship that is still unsafe. I am tired of the games being played to find out information about me. I am tired of him asking if I am seeing someone else, or assuming that I am dressing in a sexy way or wearing makeup, or any number of other things that I don't want to hear his insecure comments about.

I'm tired of him thinking that I am using drugs, and that my roommate and her boyfriend must either be using drugs, selling drugs, or gang affiliated just because they are a different race than me.

I'm tired of him pretending to be godly, when the sick, distorted thinking is still dictating his behavior.

I am tired. And emotional. And anxious, frustrated. And numb, sometimes. Stoic, because I have responsibilities to take care of.

I don't even know what I need. Much less how to ask.

Redeemed

Small steps... .whatever direction you go... .it's a long journey.

Break it down into small steps.

   
FF

To go through what you are really is incredibly exhausting.  From what you describe about how you're feeling it sounds like you could use a break.  How can you achieve that for yourself?     

I'm very disappointed for you regards your bad experiences with local services and of course would still encourage you to pursue the woman you have contacted previously and give the possibility of improved services a chance.  You have nothing to lose in trying.  My suggestion is that the help and support you could do with is certainly advice around a safety plan specific to yourself and S2.  After that, you may find that whilst exploring what is available since a few years ago, there may be options that jump out as being beneficial to you.  For myself, having an advocate who was familiar with my situation and who understood my position on things was really helpful.  I didn't feel judged.  I felt listened to and supported.  She knew the stages that women in my situation go through and didn't try to rush me along (ie none of the whole 'why are you still in contact' stuff).  

The service helped by advocating for me with children's services and sorted me out with legal help, home security (it's like Fort Knox here now) and counselling.  I also had someone to call (my advocate) in the event of something happening and my not knowing what to do.  It was reassuring.  For me, I felt like I had someone in my corner, and that was a lifeline.  After my situation had stabilised they provided a 12 week recovery course which was really valuable in so many ways.  I'm going out this evening with one of the other women I befriended there.  

I really hope that you are able to find that the service has moved with the times and is staffed with people who are more experienced than it sounds like those were that you dealt with previously.  Meanwhile, I don't know if you've looked at the website of hotline.org, but here is a link to their page on safety planning (https://www.thehotline.org/help/path-to-safety/).  There is a tab for safety planning with children which talks about visitation briefly.

Right now I'd also like to suggest that you read the below extract about Emotional Safety Planning.  It is so draining to be in the thick of things as you are and up against so much.  Please consider your own wellbeing as a priority Redeemed.


Take good care of yourself and let us know if you manage to find anything out about support improvements.  There is always Hotline.org (https://www.thehotline.org/) for reading material and a voice on the phone.

Love and light x

One of the things abusers do, according to the many, many websites and other resources I have researched, is to blame the victim directly or indirectly for the abuse.

In the midst of the abuse, he did this by blaming my attitude, my failure to meet some perceived need or want, the look on my face, my "mental instability", my perceived alliance with those whom he believed were conspiring against him or sabotaging him, me "pushing his buttons" on purpose, etc.

Not too long ago when I had made some comment about the abuse and the trauma it caused, he said "and who made the choice to stay?"

And that is exactly the question and attitude I have gotten from the dv services director, the directors of both the homeless shelters, my sisters, and child protective services.

I have been blamed for being in an abusive relationship and blamed for leaving and going back and blamed for not leaving sooner and blamed for not immediately divorcing and cutting all ties.

Basically I have been blamed for being human, and for experiencing all the conflicting emotions and confusion that results from trauma.

Research shows that dv survivors experience trauma that is identical to the trauma that soldiers in a war zone experience.
Yet I feel that I have not been allowed to experience the natural results of abuse without judgment, and that has caused me to internalize criticism and not allow myself to be OK with not being OK.

Sometimes when I post here i half expect you guys to be like, what are you doing? You're making this so hard on yourself, just get away from him, what is wrong with you, if you choose to continue contact then you don't have the right to complain, it's your own fault... .

Except you guys don't say that, and I am grateful for the support. You guys respect my choices and try to help me through the difficulties. Even if I am contributing to the difficulties. Which I am, probably.

Patrick Doyle, if any of you have watched him on YouTube, is a Christian counselor, and he talks about the "committee in your head".

Mine is made up of all the blaming, judgmental words that I heard about how even if his behavior was abusive, something is "not right" about me for not leaving and severing contact at the first sign of it.

Today is a really emotional day. I have burst into tears at least twice. And I hardly ever cry. I get angry, but hardly ever cry.

Thanks for being here y'all.
Redeemed

Hi Redeemed,
I totally understand how all that awful judgment can affect you. I experienced that myself when I interviewed divorce attorneys when I was getting out of my first marriage.

It’s ignorant, certainly not compassionate and quite frankly, those who judged you are just lucky they’ve never experienced what you have.

As so many of us understand, abusive relationships don’t start off that way. They begin gradually and there’s always something positive that we believe that will return, so we endure, wait out the ugliness and hope for our loved one’s better angels to re-emerge.

And then there are many things that tie us together: children, property, relatives, friends, places, memories. It’s incredibly ignorant and thoughtless to tell someone to sever ties at once. And it is a very difficult process to do even in the best of times.

I didn’t have children with the man who hit me and knocked the wind out of me, threw me on the ground and put his knees on my chest and his hands on my neck —and this happened several times. On a daily basis he yelled at me, said demeaning things about me, criticicized me relentlessly—even in front of his mother. He also cheated on me countless times and was completely financially irresponsible. Yet I stayed, enduring the havoc and having an unceasing optimism that things could get better if I made the effort.

Well I did that for nearly twenty years and things got slightly better, but it was never, not for a moment, a healthy relationship. Finally I gave up.

I guess I’m determined once I set my mind to things.  

Anyway I’m telling you this because I understand how it feels to have people look down on you for staying and I had much less of a reason to stay than you.

Cat

Me too.  I thought I could help him.  I loved him.  I lost my son in the process.  You're not alone Redeemed.  We do get it.  So let yourself off the hook.  I was criticised by my family and had no support around me apart from one friend who also had been in an abusive r/s and knew what it was like to love someone who hurts you.  Don't criticise yourself.  You're doing the best you can with what you have and what you know.  You deserve help and the kind that doesn't make you feel bad.  The DV services are supposed to provide that.  I hope they can yet. 

In fact, another service that is there to provide help, (and you won't like this because neither would I when they had taken my son), is children's services.  You have a different angle now to your past dealings with them.  You clearly acknowledge that you feel unsafe and are concerned about both your own and S2's wellbeing around your H.  Their job is to support parents in that position and help you to protect the both of you.  There are strings that they can pull to get you support from other agencies.  Perhaps it would help you in more ways than one to be the one that calls them this time.  Maybe they could put something in place regards visitation which would take things out of your hands regards making arrangements and ensure that S2 and yourself are always safe during that time. 

It's been an emotional day for you.  Sleep on it.  Nothing has to happen this very second, whatever you decide, and I wanted to share my thoughts as a possible option for you to think over.  Maybe it's worth looking into their processes in your area.  For now, you need to get some rest if you can.  It's good to cry and let some of these emotions out.  Following that our bodies tend to want to restore themselves.  Try to get a good sleep tonight.  Tomorrow is a new day full of possibility   

I don't trust anyone in the child services agencies around here. The last time I did call them for help, when I thought my son was in immediate danger, they didn't even go investigate the incident until two days later. Then they pulled my file and proceeded to threaten to take my son for the next two months.

Now they won't even return my calls.

I am going to search for a good church family, now that I have changed my work schedule. I need more support anywhere I can get it.

Thank God for you all and your kind words of encouragement.

Redeemed

That's great to hear.  I'm so glad you have a plan to gain extra support for yourself.  Good news that your work schedule is better suited to this now for you.  Be sure to protect that time for yourself.  It's important.  

Love and light x

Redeemed,
I just got caught up on what has been going on with you lately and I wanted to let you know that there is another person out there who is praying for you and amazed at your courage.

I am going to ask a question that I know from experience can inspire guilt and shame, but I am praying right now that "the committee" be silenced when you read it.

Are you getting your time with God?

I have had a really busy and emotionally draining week and this morning worked through the FOG that the enemy wants to attach to that question.  I sat in my "safe place" and opened up a book that has been speaking into my life and drawing me closer to God.  I feel like the words I read were meant for you as well.  This passage is speaking of the "thresholds" in our lives where we are asked to shed something in order to experience the transformation God is offering.  The "they" in the passage are "the wise old woman within" and God.

"They will tell you it is time, but only if you want it to be.  They will not coerce you into anything.  They'll just show you that a door has presented itself and you are now aware of it.  You much choose to walk through, walk across the threshold of shedding and separating, or freeze, or walk away.
Whatever you choose, they will be with you.
You will not be left or abandoned.  God will not be disgusted with you.  Ever.  In that way, God is not like the people in your life.  God doesn't tire of your struggle and your back-and-forth and your uncertainty.  God doesn't grow weary of your winding path."

I know that a lot of my pain over the past several years has been rooted in my distrust of God.  I avoided the disappointment and disgust that I thought He would have for me.  I thought He would look at me the way my earthly father was looking at me.  And yet now I know that even that winding road of keeping God at arm's length did not exhaust His love for me.

I am praying with and for you that you will be able to know the height and depth and breadth of His love for you in this moment, and that it will be revealed in a rain of resources to help you as you face these thresholds in your life.

BG

"

Thank you BG,

I am not getting as much time as I need with God. I do a daily devotional, and pray throughput the day, but I need much more.

We are going to church tomorrow. Don't know where, but God will lead us to the right church home. Got to get out and try.

I feel a breakthrough coming on

Redeemed

Here goes, y'all, full confession of what a pushover I am and the lesson I learned from it:

I gave in to his pleas to bring s2 to see him again. Mostly because of I am tired and emotionally drained, which is usually how he gets what he wants from me- he wears me down until I give in. Pattern identified. I know that my thinking tends to get distorted during this state, because otherwise I would not make some of the decisions I have made. I also tend to think that there isn't anything I can do about it.


I have been "freezing", because I didn't know how to do something different, and feeling bound to repeat past patterns because I didn't know how not to.

So, back to the visit story. I took s2 to see him, against every thought telling me this is a bad idea, you can't sustain this, etc. H put some kind of stop leak stuff in the van to see if it would stop running hot until I can get the repair done. I asked again for the title. He turned that around on me, basically claiming he was holding the title because of my decision-making skills (i.e., the fact that the last car I bought was crap and lasted only about five months, that the person who I let work on it didn't know what they were doing, that I am driving this van now while it's running hot- which it only does if it idles, like in a drive-thru, and that's only happened twice and it didn't overheat bc I turned the defrost on and the gauge went back down- and that his boss agrees with him that it's an indicator of poor decision making that I would be driving this van before fixing it or having the desire to put tags on it {triangulation} ). Classic reasons abusers give for their manipulative and controlling ways: "I'm doing this because I'm looking out for you."

He called me controlling for wanting the title back in my possession instead of letting him hold on to it. My title. To my van. That belongs to me.

He had bought me flowers (which I have never cared about, I am not a ''flower'' type of girl) and two cards. One of the cards basically said stuff like "we've both said things that we didn't mean" and "let's not throw the good times away" and "we can start over". I saw it as a big long way of saying "it's not all my fault, and can we just forget about it."

He kept sitting really close to me on the bed, trying to lay on me, kept staring at me in a way that made me feel like he was looking for evidence that his attempts at pulling my heartstrings might be working. I kept looking away, looking at s2, looking at the tv, anything but looking at him staring at me. I felt like this in itself was pressure to give him something he wanted that I wasn't ready to give (and maybe never will be.)

He wanted us to stay the night. I didn't want to do that. I told him I wasn't comfortable with doing that. He seemed sad about it but patted me on the knee and said "You do what you want. No pressure."

That was just a setup to disarm me and make me feel safe enough to do what he ultimately wanted me to do, which was stay.

Then the old familiar crazy making stuff started.

He said he wasn't staying in that hotel much longer, that he was going to find somewhere else to go because he felt that people were spying on him, "all in his business" and slandering him. These kind of thoughts are recurrent with him, they usually show up after he has been in a particular situation for a minute- a job, a neighborhood, a church- he starts getting paranoid thoughts and begins to take benign comments as being directed towards him with a hidden meaning that usually is threatening.

He then began the "games."

He got up and pulled his shorts down to where they were ''sagging'', to get a reaction from me. And I immediately knew why, and this is the reason:

My roommates are of a different race than me. He professes to be a person who respects all races and cultures, but the opposite is actually true. He actually is very racist and prejudiced, and he tends to stereotype people according to race.

I knew he was doing the sagging pants thing to taunt me because my roommates are people of color, and he was making fun of them in a racist way. He assumes that my roommates are drug dealers and gang affiliated because of their race, which is as far from the truth as saying the sky is red, and he was trying to get a reaction form me.

I simply said, are you showing off your tan line?

And he laughed and said "just trying to make you feel at home."

I said, "not everyone wears their clothes that way." And I left it at that.

But he couldn't leave it alone. He brought up a girl that I had briefly known in the AA meetings nearly eight years ago when we first met. I had given her a ride a couple of times, and helped her move some stuff into the apartment she was renting. I barely knew her. But she had dated a person of another race. And my h, over the years, has continually used my brief association with this girl as evidence that I myself might have or might be seeing a person of another race, which would be the ultimate betrayal to him. (side note- his ex-wife  left him for a person of color) This conversation has no purpose except to verbally and emotionally abuse me, and I have been subjected to it many times over the last seven plus years. So I made my mind up that it was not going to happen and I stood up and gathered up our stuff to leave.

And that triggered what I knew to be true all along- he has not changed, and he proved it.

We made it out to the car and he snapped. Got in my face and snarled "Go ahead, run back to where you feel comfortable" and then made some vulgar comments about me sucking d@$%. He had s2 in his arms while he was in my face, and I said "give me my son". I had put my purse and s2's bag in the passenger seat, and he went around to put s2 in the other side, telling me the whole time that I wasn't getting the title back, that he signed it and sent it off, and then I noticed my purse wasn't where I just put it. I jumped out of the car and ran around to the other side, he chased me and grabbed it and we struggled for it until I yelled for him to give it to me and he let go, but not before the strap broke on it. As soon as I ran back to the drivers side he grabbed the keys out of the ignition and started to walk off. I chased him and tried to grab them, he wouldn't give them to me until I yelled that I was calling the police. He let go of them and then tried to go back to s2. I told him to get out of my van and I grabbed my purse to hold it so he couldn't take it again. He started to panic then because he knew he had messed up bad, and he tried to get in the driver's side door to block me from leaving but I closed the door on him. I drove off with him begging me to let s2 still come to church with him in the morning( I had thought of talking to the man who takes him to church to see if that might be a visitation option. This man did the Bible study with the inmates in jail, he knows why my h was in jail and I had considered approaching him for help regarding a safe way for s2 to visit h without me being alone with him.) But there is no way that is happening now.

He has called and called and sent countless texts. I have answered none of them. They range from bargaining (I'll give you whatever you want, just let me take s2 to church) to excuses (you caught me in a weak moment; I'm emotionally confused), blaming (I'm sorry you're full of mixed emotions over this, but our children are something different. don't confuse them because your feelings are more important to you than theirs), twisted apologies for something other than the abusive behavior (I knew the flowers and cards was too soon, i apologize it threw you into an emotional rollercoaster) , promises (I will take it slowly and just wanted you to know you're worth changing for), and attempts at conversation that totally ignores the outburst of abusive behavior that just occurred (call when you get a chance, love you, did s2 fall asleep on the way home, is s2 awake yet, can he go to church with me this afternoon while you go to work.) This is his "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" routine. Pretend it didn't happen.

I have not and will not respond to any of this. I will contact the seller of the van on Monday, explain the situation, and ask him to file for lost title. He has already moved out of state, but I think you can file online. If I have to pay him for his trouble, I will. If it causes him to decide not to rent the house he just moved out of to my h, so be it.

There will be no more visitation with s2 until I can file for either legal separation or divorce and get something settled in court.

I am taking a break from all contact with him. I may have to eventually communicate with him because of court proceedings and visitation, but I am ending all contact right now.

He tries to tell me that he can't prove to me that he has changed if he doesn't have the chance to be around me and s2. In other words, he needs us to come back and live with him again and then he will have the chance to prove he has changed, instead of being willing to go through the long process of uncovering all the beliefs and thinking patterns behind his abusive behaviors, identifying them and learning new behaviors, acknowledging the full extent of the damage he has caused and allowing me as much time and space to heal as necessary, and accepting that earning back trust is part of the consequences for breaking it so severely in the first place.

Yet, the limited contact we have had was ample enough for him to show me the exact opposite of what he claims- he has not changed, he is just as controlling, manipulative and abusive as ever, and he thinks he can treat me however he wants without consequence.

No more. I will have no more of it. I have made up my mind, and I think it may be time that I move to the Detaching Board. I don't see much in the way of hope for this marriage, not when the person responsible for the abuse is blame shifting, denying, minimizing, making excuses, and not taking action steps to correct any problem behaviors. He wants me to find him a program or therapist that doesn't interfere with his work. He still wants me to do all the work in the relationship. If he was interested in real change, he would seek out available help resources on his own. Instead he wants me to set it all up so he can check it off the list and say 'see, I did that for you.". Nope.

I thank you guys for helping me on this journey and for your patience, understanding and encouragement. A new chapter is starting.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

   

Reminders of why there is an order of protection... .

Please be kind to yourself

FF

First of all, Redeemed, I don't think you're a pushover.     I think you're a very compassionate woman who wanted to let her son visit with his father.

You now recognize the pattern of how he wears you down with asking until you're exhausted and you give in.  It's great to have that overview and it will serve you well in the future.     Sometimes it just takes seeing the pattern repeated a few times to confirm that's what you're observing.  

And apart from your pattern, you're seeing the repetitive patterns that he's engaging in--wanting you to resume the relationship and not doing any of the necessary work on himself to atone for the damage he's inflicted in your life.

You're seeing plainly that he has not changed and it's sad that he's thrown away yet another chance you've given him. But that makes things crystal clear regarding what you want to do. And though painful, it's a blessing to know what's right in your heart and mind.  

Cat

This is the point, as victims of abuse, that we must reach in our own time.  I'm so sorry that you've had to be in all of the situations that brought you to this point. 

In my experience, there come a lot of emotions after this.  Be compassionate when they arise.  You're going through a lot and will have a lot to process.  We're here with you for all of that.

Redeemed, well done for finding your strength to make a decision which gives you that peace you so badly need.  I feel great relief for you. 

Please pursue all the support you can muster and continue to keep yourself safe.  How do you plan to prevent the calls and texts from disturbing you?  Will you keep your phone on silent?

Love and light x

I do keep my phone on silent. I try to just scan the texts without dwelling on them.

The emotions are tough and fluctuate. Sad, mad, relief, anxiety, guilt, and back again.

I try to remember, especially when he sends texts saying he loves me and he would do it all over again even if we break up, that there's many parts of our relationship that would not wish to do over again. Ever. Most of it, in fact.

Some batterers only display acts of violence a couple times a year, maybe three or four. I endured physical assaults, even if it was just throwing something like a lighter at me or having him spit at me or thump ashes from his cigarette on me, about once every four to six weeks. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I think the longest period with no physical assaults was seven months. Although there may have been a time in there when he threw a drink on me because the car was breaking down and it was somehow my fault.

Every pregnancy I endured physical abuse. Just days before giving birth, sometimes the day before giving birth.

No. I would not do it all over. I will not do it over.

It is sad. But it's what I have to work with, so I will do my best to be my best.

Redeemed

Redeemed,
I remember clearly the last time my former husband attacked me and getting to the place of “no more, never again”. He tried all his usual tactics to get me back in line and was astonished that they no longer worked. But I was done, forever.

Thinking back on what he’d done to me over the years, I was amazed to think of all the times he’d physically attacked me and how he’d somehow justified it in his mind that his behavior was a reasonable thing to do.

Then I thought about how it started so gradually and the verbal abuse became so normalized and then after the physical violence happened, he’d apologize and be remorseful for a day... .and then the cycle would start again.

Thinking about it now, many years later, I remember how he’d flip without warning and I’d be so dumbstruck that I’d just freeze and hope the attack would be over soon. I’ve always thought there was no excuse for violent behavior toward another person, but I’m amazed that I never fought back physically. I had martial arts training and he wasn’t that much bigger than me. I think it comes down to not wanting to hurt him. Isn’t that interesting?

I’m so sorry, Redeemed, at all you’ve been through. It will take a while to process all those emotions that you’re feeling right now. I understand.  

Cat

He is trying to make me feel guilty. Says that I am not answering him just because I am mad and didn't get my way (about what? Him not giving me the title that he stole from me?) And says that I hurt him when I left and took s2 that night when he wanted us to stay.

I left because my instincts were telling me that he was gearing up to draw me into a pointless conversation designed to be verbally and emotionally abusive. A setup to talk about his perceived view of me and how he disapproves of it and how he uses that as a basis for not trusting me and how he uses that as evidence that I am lying now... .all made up in his head... .

I didn't want to spend my night enduring that, and I chose not to, and he flipped out. Because that behavior was just under the surface anyway, waiting to erupt, and I could sense it.

Talk about PTSD triggers... .

Redeemed

Redemmed, the author Lundy Bancroft, without going into pathology, talks about emotional and physical spousal abuse his two books.

I have, "Should I Stay or Should I Go."  This is the companion book to, "Why Does He Do That?  Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men."

https://www.amazon.com/Should-Stay-Relationship-Can-Should-be/dp/042523889X

Both books are excellent. 

I can completely understand where Cat is coming from.  I day you make up your mind and say to yourself, "No more."  Everyone had a tolerance level and one day this notion arrives:  no more.

 

Hi Asking Why,

I have Should I Stay or Should I Go. I actually have two copies. Because I thought I ordered Why Does He Do That, and I got two of the other instead 

I am going to order it again and make sure it is right this time.

UBPDh's attorney came in to my work to eat. Told him about the stolen title. He said I can file suit against him. He knows how difficult uBPDh is.

He is now resorting to texting me and saying he's worried about me because I am not answering.

Looking back at the texts, I see a lot of classic manipulation tactics.

Trying to stay focused. Concentration is hard.

Redeemed

Redeemed, you are doing the best your can by researching and looking for answers.  You are not about to make rash decisions, but informed and careful ones.  This is hard in a marriage where emotions are the first things we look at.  You have children and that complicates the issues.  You are strong and I admire you. 

Your eyes are open.

 

I'm just catching up as I wait for a bus so will have to make it short. Could you A leave the messages unread B ask your housemate to screen them and let you know if there is anything of actual importance you need to read C set a boundary on yourself to only look at them once every (insert number of days) D ask him to stop because you want some space? The last one, given the possibility of extinction burst, might be best talked through with the DV hotline (if you've given up on local support).

Be proud of yourself Redeemed.  I'm afraid to say that this inner strength you have found is likely the stage that CPS were wanting from you when the children were placed with your sister. I say that as I know it's what they wanted from me when my son was removed from my home. Looking back I have a better understanding of the process on their part. They do not however have an understanding of the fact that this happens in its own time, nor do they have any interest in that. All they care about is the safety of the children whether they are genuinely at risk or it is a perceived risk. They have set criteria which if not met prompts them to act.

The fact that you are now there (no longer willing to consider going back, or to be manipulated in any way) ought to be a positive with them regards the case of your other kids in time. Safe mother = safe children.  Just something to keep in mind. 

Love and light x

Harley,

I would say that could be true of cps, except that they were pushing the court to give my sister guardianship while my youngest son remained in my custody. That to me is evidence that the children's interests and protection were not the driving force for them, because arguing that a situation is not safe for five children while allowing one child to remain in it makes no sense.

And no, they don't understand the process it takes to get here, nor did they offer help for me. I was left trying to jump through hoops while grieving the separation from my children, and I was just beginning to realize that my h has several issues with mental illness and I had hoped that he could be diagnosed and receive treatment and get better.

It was only this year when I read Should I Stay or Should I Go that I realized that substance abuse, mental illness and abusive behavior are three separate and complex issues. Treatment of one doesn't mean the others will remit.

I am going to stop reading the texts for now. I am too emotional and I have homework that is piling up and I am stressing about getting it done. Plus the texts just make me sad or mad and I don't need that.

I have tried doing the online chat at the dv hotline but I never get connected and then I will have to get off the computer to tend to s2 or one of the other babies I watch in the mornings. I may have a chance to call before work today, when my friend takes over watching the kids.

Thanks for your continued support,

Redeemed

Hi Redeemed,
Something I did when I received really hateful letters from my BPD mother was to have my roommate read them and tell me if there was anything important that I should know.

She was amazed at the awful things that my mother said and it was quite a bonding experience for the two of us. I was so grateful that she would read them and save me from the emotional distress that my mother's words would have inflicted. We're still very good friends, decades later and though she lives a few states away, she visits me when she can.

Right now you're too raw to endure the onslaught of those texts. I hope you can have a trusted friend sort through them for you.

   
Cat

Cat,

I have kept the extent of my recent contact with uBPDh largely a secret from everyone, mainly because I think it makes me look foolish and I don't want to answer questions like "why are you doing that?"

I think this is why I feel so isolated. I did tell my roommate that I was bringing s2 to see him, because she has more understanding since she recently ended a six year relationship with an abusive man who also has a mental health disorder. She has a two year old son with this man as well. But I have not told her about the stolen title, or this last incident of him breaking my purse and getting in my face, mostly because our schedules are so different now and I may not even see her at home for a few days straight. She leaves early, I get home late.

I did tell some of the details to a couple of girls at work who have also had abusive relationships. It's kind of scary how many people have experienced abusive behavior from a relationship partner.

I seriously doubt any of the texts are anything I need to read. It's basically an erratic means of wearing me down until I respond to him. Kind of like pushing all sorts of different buttons on a control panel until you find one that does what you want it to do.

When I am tempted to feel sorry for him, I remember that his behavior is not the way a person who loves me would act. It is more of a clear indication that his needs and wants are still priority, regardless of the cost to me.

Redeemed

Yes, I understand. I kept things hidden about my first marriage for the same reasons. I think it would be helpful if you trusted one person and let them into the secrets. You might be surprised to find that “sunlight is the best disinfectant.” And that people might be more understanding than you give them credit for. Granted, you have to select someone who is emotionally mature and is compassionate.

Of course you feel isolated, you’ve been keeping his secrets for years. I did too.

Yes, there many of us who’ve endured abuse from a mentally ill partner. It’s sad, but true. And most of us have hidden it because we didn’t want others to know, either to protect our partners or out of our own shame.

You’re right that those texts are meant to wear you down and he’s trying everything in his playbook that has worked upon you in the past. And good for you that you’re not reading them. 

And you’re right, someone who truly loves you would not behave in this way.  

Cat

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