BPDFamily.com

We got close as friends about two years ago.  Shortly afterwards, I told him I liked him. He replied I was not his “type”, but also said that he had imagined us together. I decided to leave it at that and see where things went.
As months went on, we grew closer and closer. We’ve been through some very tough periods, which was exhausting but also allowed us to form a very close bond. We saw each other every day and were very close physically (not sexually) and emotionally. He told me I was the closest person to him, I felt the same. Then he went traveling for several months and we kept almost daily contact via texts and calls, and also travelled together for several weeks when I went to visit.
During the last weeks of his travels, a mutual acquaintance told me he was seeing someone. I was shocked (both at the fact that he never told me he was involved with someone, despite our daily contact, and also that he never considered my feelings for him- and I was absolutely sure (I am still) he had feelings for me as well). I was angry and distraught (and at the time, I had not realized yet he had BPD traits) and I told him how I felt (basically, that I had long had feelings for him and he knew that and that he behaved as if he were aware of that and corresponding). He was apologetic at first, then told me he had no idea of my feelings whatsoever, then just plainly accused me of “forcing” him to spend time with me and to talk to me (that had never been the case, in fact, he usually had the initiative to meet and the texts/calls were mutual). In the middle of the accusations I said we needed to stop (because he was saying things that were hurtful and untrue). He stopped contact then.
That was almost three months ago. He returned to my city shortly after that conversation happened. We’ve been seeing each other for work, with him completely ignoring me (no response to hello or goodbye, even when other people are around). I asked if we could talk. He said “sure” but never replied to my suggestions to meet, then said he needed time to have a break from everything that happened, which seemed fair to me. Weeks passed without any contact. After some time passed, I tried inviting him to hang out with other friends, did not get any response. About three weeks ago I asked to talk about a trip we had been planning long before anything happened and we ended up canceling. I also said that he was one of the most important people in my life and no contact between us for so long was hurting me, and asked if he could please talk to me. At that point, he got up, left the room and then blocked me.

I know it’s a complicated situation, and I also know that had I any idea of BPD three months ago, I would have reacted differently to the whole thing (not in my feelings but in the way I worded them, in the way I reacted to what he was saying). I should have known better.

I see him regularly and he looks right through me as if I were not there, while being fine (funny, cheerful) with everyone else. I resolved being kind and not responding with ignoring to his ignoring (I greet him and I say thank you and I keep work interactions polite but also with a touch of humor when appropriate). I am exhausted and I end every week crying.
Is there hope that we regain personal contact?  That we are still friends? What could I do to help the situation?

hi macarena and *welcome*

is he still seeing someone?

do i have it right that the two of you work together?

Hi Once removed,

Thank you for reading and taking the time to answer.

Yes, we do work together. I cannot be entirely sure, but I think he is still talking to that person (long-distance)

Are you clear about what you want out of a relationship with him?  In other words, what was good, that you'd want more of?  What felt unhealthy, that you would want to change?

RC

Hi Radcliff!

Thank you for reading and replying.

Well, our relationship was good overall, apart from this last fallout. I think we get each other well and we only had one major argument (and we were able to work through it pretty well, although now, having read more on BPD I understand a whole lot more about that argument), and despite his general reluctance to get close to people, we were able to develop a close relationship, which has been beneficial for both of us (he is a kind and supportive person when not stressed/ dysregulated). The things of him I struggled with understanding I think I understand more of now (such as frequent mood changes, struggling when I talk about feelings towards him, even if what I’m expressing is positive etc.)
I realize though that getting closer with someone with BPD traits can get more challenging with time, that’s why I’m trying to educate myself on this site and hopefully try and find the way(s) to help resolve this current situation, so we can at least communicate, because blocking/ avoiding contact is being really really difficult for me.

thats tough. awkward, and hurtful.

is there hope? for sure. it sounds like, for now, you have played your cards. you let him know that you miss the connection, and would like to communicate.

for whatever reason, hes put up some pretty hard walls. its good that youre respecting them. when we dont, people erect higher walls.

i might dial things back a little further. do be polite, and "just business". dont go out of your way to acknowledge or greet him, or otherwise speak to him. if hes not returning the favor, its possible he still carries and is playing out resentment.

what do you think? its an awkward situation to be sure, what might it look like to dial things back a bit, do you think?

Thanks for the additional detail.  That helps us understand more.

You are doing a great job.  That's a good plan, though I think once removed's suggestion to ease up a bit more might be worth trying.  It's honorable that you're not ignoring him, as that would be hurtful and manipulative and I imagine would go against your values.  But in these situations, behaving in a manner that's just slightly warmer than neutral seems to work best.  No chasing.  From your description of your actions, it sounds like you get this, but pwBPD are hypersensitive, so if you're giving him even the slightest amount of special energy compared to the other guys at work, he probably picks up on it and may react by pulling away.  

I'm sorry for all the pain this is causing you.  These are tough times.


Yes, there is.  But there's something important for you to pay attention to.  When our pwBPD reject us, it feels awful.  Regaining their affection can become so important to us that we stop paying attention to what we want or need in a relationship.  Getting them back can also overshadow any attention we might give to personal growth.  You will want to make sure you're doing a couple of things -- growing (for example by practicing the tools we teach here) and keeping in touch with what you want out of a relationship and whether things feel right to you.

What I said above is preamble to saying that pwBPD tend to have cyclical feelings about relationships.  If you play it cool for a while, and don't apply pressure, there's a good chance that he'll swing back your way.  The thing is that these cycles can keep repeating, and you can get stuck in a pattern of doing whatever it takes to get back to the good part of the cycle, losing yourself in the process.  Thus the advice above.

Let's say the friendship, and even a romance, resumes.  If you learned some coping tools to better handle some of the tough times with him, but he never changed at all, would that be a relationship you would want to continue?  (There's no right answer, this isn't a trick question -- all that matters is what you think).

RC

Thank you so much for your advice! It means and helps a lot.

I agree with both of  you, Once removed and Radcliff, I might have tried giving him a bit more attention in our work interactions, which he might have perceived as chasing. I’ll try to be warm but more neutral.

Radcliff, it’s true that it is so hard not to lose myself in trying to get the relationship back to normal, seems impossible sometimes. I’m trying my best to (somewhat) keep my emotional stability in check. This site is of great help.
Would I be able to handle the cycles if I learn the coping techniques? I know I want to try and do my best. Despite these tough times, for me, the good in our relationship outweighs the bad (however, it is also fair to say that when things are difficult, they are *really difficult*, so I’m
still learning to manage this difficulty). I love him and I’m willing to put the effort in and try and handle things as best as I can.

Thanks for the answers.  That helps us understand your outlook better.  Every situation is different, since not all pwBPD express the same traits to the same extent, and not all partners have the same needs and facility with the coping tools.

This page, What Does It Take To Be In a BPD Relationship? (https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship), outlines some things to think about when contemplating a relationship with a pwBPD.  The first tool I'd recommend working on is boundaries.  Boundaries are super important, and take dedicated effort and learning to master.  Many of us did not learn boundaries in our families of origin (FOO).  Take a look at this page on setting boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries).  Can you think of any times during your relationship with him where better boundaries might have been healthier for you?

Thank you, Radcliff!

The boundaries topic seems really important. However, what I’ve been struggling most, perhaps, in my relationship has been lack of communication regarding his feelings. Many people here tell the stories of their loved ones getting extremely angry/uncontrollable in a difficult situation. While anger was expressed by him, it was a rare occasion. he is more on the quiet side, and has the tendency of just shutting down (also the silent treatment stems from this tendency, I believe), and I am left wondering what exactly he feels/ what exactly triggered him/ how I can help. Many times, when we didn’t have any conflict at all, I still felt frustration at being unable to understand and help with a sudden mood change or a sudden retreat into himself, which in turn left me insecure regarding my own actions (did I do something wrong? Did I say something that bothered him?). When asked directly what’s wrong he almost always said that nothing.
Do you think there is any specific tool/ skill that could help in such situations?

The single most important tool for me has been taking a deep breath and a moment to try to identify my feelings.  If I don't get a callback or a response to a text for example, and the last time we spoke things didn't go so well, I may start to get really anxious, and assume that I'm getting the silent treatment.  That may lead me to be cranky or needy when we finally talk, or push too hard for contact.  When I identified how my feelings of insecurity were driving me, with some effort (OK, sometimes a lot of effort ;) ) I was able to force myself to be patient and give it more time.  Sometimes it turned out that she was just busy and couldn't reply!  I found this strategy helped things.  Do you think it might work for you?

Another thing to remember is that our brains are going to continue to try to interpret their actions as if they were typical folks without BPD.  Silence might mean that he's overwhelmed and doesn't know what to say, whereas with a typical person, silence would be a definite message.  Because our brains are wired the way they are wired, we have to continually remind ourselves that we may be misinterpreting signals.  We can then pause and consider a wider range of responses.

Finally, if he says he's not upset, consider taking what he says at face value.  Because the signals we get are so often screwy, we invest a ton of effort in trying to figure out "what they really mean."  We might even get good at it.  The problem is, if we get good at guessing what they really mean despite what they say, they can say anything and we have to read their minds.  We're setting ourselves up for a never-ending grind of attempts at mind-reading.  Taking something they say at face value can be a refreshing break, and puts more onus on them to say things they mean.  It doesn't mean they'll actually become straight shooters, but at least we can avoid rewarding indirect, ineffective communication.  So, if he says he's not worried, don't worry!  Might that work in your situation?

RC

I agree, working on my own patience is a big thing. I should put some effort into it.

I didn’t mean my current situation though, when I said he was silent and not communicating on his feelings/ changes of mood. I had in mind more day-to day situations we had in the time we’ve been close. I agree that in those ordinary situations my own insecurities sometimes made me think something was wrong and I read too much into a short period of silence. So it was more about my own anxiety than any reaction of his.
Currently though I’m pretty sure he feels overwhelmed, otherwise he wouldn’t probably withdraw into such a prolonged period of silence and wouldn’t react by blocking to a positive talk. Patience is something I’m working on now. So I’m trying to give it time and see how it evolves.

Thank you again for all your advice!

Yes, I think we were on the same page, I was referring to times when there is regular contact as well.

You mentioned that the tough times were really tough.  Besides him getting quiet and uncommunicative when his mood changed what other things made times really tough?

RC

His depression last year was very difficult. I know it might not be related to any BPD traits, but being close to a very depressed person who has such difficulty expressing/ sharing any emotion was draining for me. I was pretty much the only person that stayed close to him and spent many hours every day with him. And it was devastating to see him like this and not to be able to help much. I tried convincing him to get professional help but was not successful. Luckily, it got better at some point.

The depression does sound difficult.  It sounds like you wanted to be there to support him, but being with him when he was down was really hard on you.  Where you able to do things to take care of yourself, get out on your own, see friends, etc. to keep from being too down?

RC

This is difficult.  My ex is uBPD, but she's diagnosed with depression and anxiety. 

Speaking to uBPD, a person with BPD feels intense self shame; my feelings are inherently worthless; therfore,  I'm inherently worthless (and unlovable),"

I urged my ex to get help for her depression yet she responded,  "I feel like you're throwing my sickness in my face!" She felt shamed by me. 

Having almost 6 years to recollect, I was earnest, yet invalidating. 

I tried, but to be honest, I also always prioritized spending time with him because of how bad things were. I see now that it was not the best decision because at some point I felt like I was getting depressed myself.

Yes, it is definitely a very sensitive and difficult topic. I remember trying to choose the right words and apologizing also because I know this is something not very pleasant to hear, especially when one is feeling down and worthless.

Hi macarena,

I’m sorry for all you’re going through right now. I know it’s very painful when someone you care deeply about goes silent on you. 

My advice is to take a breath. Try to center and calm yourself and focus on building your confidence and strength. We are always more attractive and appealing to others when we are calm, confident and releasing positive energy. I would use this time to practice some of the tools we offer here, like wisemind.   You can read about it here:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind (https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind)

I can’t promise you that this will win him back, but it will definitely help you feel better and the tools we have are valuable to use in many situations, not just with BPD loved ones.

What do you think? How do you think he would react if you stepped back and put your focus on creating the best possible, most confident and strong you?

Sending you positive energy and good thoughts,

L2T

Hi Learning2Thrive,

Thank you so much for reading and taking the time to respond.


Thank you for the link. Yes, it is very helpful to learn better ways to handle the situations with more awareness, not just reacting on pure emotion. It’s definitely something I need to learn if our relationship resumes (hope it does).


It’s not easy because he is constantly on my mind, but I’m trying my best to be balanced and positive. It is a tough situation to handle but I also realize that if I continue being an emotional wreck, we can’t build anything from there.

You are right (and also the other members who’ve advised the same) —stepping back seems to start having a positive effect on the situation: this last week he greeted me at work and even helped me once (he didn’t absolutely have to). I know these are really small things and our communication hasn’t resumed yet, but it’s definitely better than complete nothing I’d been getting before. So I’ll keep working on staying positive.

Something that is really difficult for me is that he looks/ acts absolutely fine around everyone else and seems like it’s really easy for him to find “replacements” and just hang out with new people, he doesn’t seem to care about my existence at all.

Yes, I know this is very hurtful and painful for you to watch. Please try not to take his behaviors personally. His behaviors are about him, not you. I feel for you as I recall being in a similar situation about 6 years ago; until I came here and started learning more about BPD and more about me. You see, I tend to be an enabler/co-dependent by nature. I was raised and trained to behave that way from birth. I have discovered this after lots of therapy, reading, pain and self reflection. Perhaps this doesn’t relate to your situation at all, but maybe you could read this and see if it resonates at all:


You can find the full article here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships (https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships)

Sending you good thoughts and positive energy,
L2T

for the person that wants distance, things are easier than the person on the receiving end. it sucks. i knew a girl, we kinda crashed and burned before we ever officially dated, but before that, wed talk all day, and we went from that to her distancing big time. it left a hole in my life. are there areas in your life where you can focus on building connection and fulfillment?

hows it going at work? any update?

Thank you for the link! I definitely have some traits of “enabler” (foregoing my own emotional needs for those of the loved one) and I don’t have some other mentioned in the article. What helped you most in improving your relationships as someone who has “enabler” tendencies?

Thank you again for your support!

As for connection, yes, I have great friends (although only a couple I can discuss this situation with, because the others just tell me to run).
 It’s for sure way harder on the receiving end.

At work there hasn’t been much of improvement, but last week there were a couple of good things: he greeted me once when we crossed in the hall, and he even came up to help me (he didn’t absolutely have to - he could have answered the question online). I know, small things, but better than nothing.
I’ve learned in these months that we had little to no contact that he is not consistent in “progressing” with contact. Like one day we could have almost normal (however small) interaction and the next he would retreat into complete avoidance. I guess, that meant he was not ready... .So currently I’m still keeping things neutral (not trying to contact him unless necessary)

Do you think he will contact me first when he is ready? Or will there be a more or less “safe” moment  to try to establish contact?

Thank you for your support and advice! Means a lot, really.

Hi macarena,

What helped me most was finally helping myself.

But before I could do that, it required me learning about BPD and why there was such a huge attraction to and blind spot for my BPD lover to begin with.

We’re here for you. We can listen and support you through this. You’re not alone.

  L2T

i think that his being polite, greeting you, helping you, these are good signs. its hard to say if they will develop into more in time, but i think with a "less is more" strategy on your end, the odds are better, over time. so the point isnt necessarily even to meet him half way, or for example, lets say he goes out of his way, i would not necessarily respond in kind or push for more. im not saying play hard to get, just dont over react. keep it neutral, like you said, even if things start to pick up on his end. someone in his position might test the waters many times before they feel safe or comfortable diving in.

For me, starting to learn boundaries (what I should be responsible for and what she should be responsible for) was key.  Also allowing myself to believe that my feelings and needs were important and should be met, too, it wasn't just about saving the other person or making them happy.  Do those thoughts sound like they might apply in your situation?

You are right. It will definitely take him much more time than I had initially imagined. Being neutral definitely seems to work better than trying to nudge him into resuming communication. I’m also getting better at controlling my urge to make amends right now and I think I’m calmer than I was a few weeks ago. I’ll just hope for the best.
Thank you so much for your advice!

Yes, definitely. Will keep trying to focus on myself for the time being. Also, when we resume communication I realize now we should try and work on it to be different, less enmeshed and less sacrificing on my side, for instance.

That's an interesting insight.  Can you tell us more about it?

Well, I have this tendency to get a bit “lost” in the relationship and disregard my other needs/ interests in favor of it. For instance, when things were good, we met almost every day (apart from working together). The initiative to meet came from both of us (more from him though), but when he suggested to meet I almost never said no and I adjusted my other plans (meeting other people, going to the gym, etc.) so that I could see him. When I suggested a plan he could decline though (he didn’t do that often but it happened several times) which is also normal, of course. For me, it didn’t even happen consciously, but he became the priority, on every occasion, over other things and people.

In part because we grew close at the time he was depressed, I also learned to observe closely his mood (it started because there was a period I was genuinely scared for him - he seemed to be in such a bad place, was so isolated and lonely - and I tried to say something good, distract him a bit, just talk whenever I noticed a change to the worse, and that happened several times a day). But then he came out of depression, and I was still always watching his mood, taking notice of the changes (which still occurred quite often), kept the habit of asking if everything was ok when I noticed a significant change... .it can probably be too much... .dunno

What's fascinating about what you just wrote is that you describe a situation where both your and his boundaries were eroded.  It's not like one person had good ones and the other didn't.  As you said... .enmeshment!

How might you detect oncoming enmeshment and gently head it off in the future?

RC

Yes, I have done this in the past with romantic relationships and friends. I figured out that something was really wrong in the way I was raised... .it was as if I always felt responsible for making everything good or better for everyone else and that was what made me feel worthy of love or kindness or friendship.

How about you? Why do you think you made him the priority?

  L2T

Yes, we definitely were too attached crossing each other’s boundaries.

One thing I think would be good to do is to make conscious effort to make time for myself and cultivate other friendships, to avoid being so focused on our relationship (to the point that it becomes sole priority). Another thing, I guess, is acceptance. I can’t change him - make his frequent mood swings go away, or make him more consistent, it’s not something in my power and I can’t magically make things better for him, which means I needn’t concentrate on this so much on an everyday basis and be a “helicopter friend” (or partner, if we ever get together romantically).

I think, it’s been a combination of factors. First, as I mentioned, we grew close at the times of his depression, and I felt certain responsibility for his well-being because I was the only person close to him at that very tough time. Second, I was interested in him romantically, so to a certain point, I think, it’s natural that you put effort in a close Friendship that has potential of evolving into something more. And also, as you say, I have this “need to be needed”, need to make things better. I’m not sure where exactly it comes from, because on the one hand, I can be single for long periods of time without feeling any urge to find a partner (I like being by myself); on the other hand, when I am with someone, either romantically or in a very close friendship, I do feel this necessity of making things better. Probably, as you say, it could be a way to “secure” the relationship and feel more worthy, more “valuable”

How are you doing and feeling today, macarena?

Sending you good thoughts and positive energy. 

L2T

I’m ok, L2T, thank you! Working on staying calm and positive and not taking things personally with him, and also doing other things I enjoy to be more emotionally stable.
I’ve noticed a couple of (very small) improvements over the past couple of weeks, like he can say thank you to me instead of completely ignoring, which is nothing big but still is a huge improvement from pretending I don’t exist at all times (he still does that sometimes but less consistently).
Thank you and everyone for all your support!

You've raised a very good point for us here.  A lot of times we talk about how our pwBPD "force" us to give up friendships and outside activities.  While it is true that in some cases they can bring a large amount of pressure to bear, they don't always, and you've highlighted how we can also do this to ourselves, and how our pwBPD may actually feel crowded by it!

Many of us members share this "need to be needed."  We often find that it goes back to our family of origin.  What were things like for you growing up?  Did you have any "rescuer" and/or "rescue-ee" role models?  Did you help others out a lot as a child?

RC

 :hi: macarena,

You wrote:

I’m so glad to hear you are doing ok. The highlighted part tells me you are doing better than you may think, even if you don’t feel like it yet.

Excellent work, macarena. Keep focusing on yourself, your emotional stability and the things that make you happy and satisfied with your life. This is where you find peace and genuine joy. Whatever he chooses, you will be in a healthier position.  

  L2T

Thank you, L2T! I appreciate your advice and support!

Well, I think my mother is a lot like this in this sense. She likes helping and "rescuing" and she is someone who sacrificed her own interests and well-being in favor of having family and staying with my father (who didn't treat her well). So I guess yes, I did have a role model. Another thing is that helping was my go-to coping mechanism socially. I grew up with a considerable lack of social skills (both of my parents are loners and didn't have a close social circle, and I am introverted by nature but also,no one ever taught me how to reach out to people as a kid, I feel like I learned that later in life by myself). So helping others was the only thing I knew how to do, and probably also when helping someone I felt seen and appreciated, which I otherwise didn't feel like, 90 percent of the time.
Not a great background for BPD relationships, right? 

Well, it's a great setup to get involved in a BPD relationship!  I've been doing a bit of thinking on this rescuing topic lately, as I can relate to many of the things you said.  My mother and sister gave my father a really hard time, and I've followed in his footsteps.  I can be a little awkward socially, and didn't have a lot of help from my FOO.  I spent many years as a literal rescuer on an ambulance.  When I think about successful and appropriate rescuing or helping, it always happens with good boundaries.  Therapists, crisis volunteers, EMTs etc. have commitments that are typically bounded by time and limits on the nature of the relationships.  Romantic relationships and rescuing haven't worked out so well.  The fatal flaw, for me at least, is that the person I rescued was not equipped to be sensitive to my needs, and in trying to rescue her I abandoned my needs.  I was able to do this for years, but eventually it became unsustainable.  The other thing that it set up was an unequal power dynamic.  She felt that I had more power as the rescuer/oppressor, and resented it.  But I felt like she had more power as the victim whose needs dominated,  and resented it.  I'm realizing, late in life, how much rescuing in a relationship can throw things off, and how finding a relatively healthy partner with good boundaries might offer an alternative path.

Do you have any volunteer activities that you do, or might be interested in, that would allow you to be a helper with good boundaries, to allow you to exercise that part of your persona in a healthy direction?

RC

Sorry for the late reply, Radcliff.

This sounds soo familiar :/


Maybe you are right and I need to stir my rescuer needs in another direction. I’ll give it a thought.
I’d still like to try and keep a relationship with this person, but I feel like I’m doing what I can, and it’s a two-way road, despite his BPD traits... .

Sorry to be scarce.  It's been a while.  How are things going?

RC

Hi! Thank you for checking!
Not much change in the situation to be honest. However, I try not to focus on him as much and been focusing more on friends/ family/ making some plans. I still really hope the situation improves and we talk again but from what I'm seeing it might take quite a lot of time and I can't put my life on pause until it does.

That's great to hear that you're engaged with friends and family!  What kinds of plans are you working on?  Anything you're particularly looking forward to?

RC