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Since calling CPS after my 4-year-old grandson told me my daughter hits him on top of the head and kicks his legs because he is so rude to her, things have been unsettled here, to say the least.

I am having great difficulty being supportive and validating because I'm so angry with her. I've been reluctant to ask her to move out because I'm afraid for my grandson. I'm afraid he'll be homeless, or living in undesirable conditions, with strangers, etc. I'm no longer afraid she'll alienate me from him, that's a given - she's doing it under my roof by having loud, angry, telephone conversations about me while my grandson is in the same room. My grandson has already shown signs that he is rejecting me. I understand this is a normal reaction for a child; his mother is his survival and no matter what, he is loyal to her.

I am responsible for the most recent trigger. Here's what happened:

I came home after an appointment and she was in the garage, playing on her phone and smoking. She told me my grandson was relaxing on the couch. I walked in and he told me about losing one of his possessions so his mommy bought him a new one. We talked about that for a minute or two then he started shouting at me to leave, that he just wants mommy, and he began shaking his toy at me, inches from my face. I told him I loved him and went to my room to do some work. He started crying out for mommy. I waited a bit but he kept crying so I went out to the garage and said, "Do you not hear that?" She said, "What?" I said, "He's crying for you." She said, "I heard him crying but I figured you were with him so I didn't come in." She then got on the phone immediately and started loudly talking about what happened. I went out and said, "I don't think it's cool that you're having this conversation in front of (name)." It got worse, of course. She started yelling at me then my grandson started shouting at me to LEAVE.

I think you all are superheroes for being able to keep calm in the storm. I'm feeling like a failure and I'm so sad for us all, but especially for my grandson.

I just don't think I'm capable of doing all the things I must do to avoid conflict with her. I'm collecting resentments left and right.

~ OH

Hi Only Human,

I'm sorry about how things are going with your daughter, but am happy you reached out. 

You are definitely between the rock (your daughter) and the hard place (wanting to protect your grandson)... .a truly exhausting place to be. Reminder: Self-Care is important!   When your worn down everything is more difficult. 

So the Panda's multiple questions   ... .Did the CPS report go anywhere?  I'm also curious is your grandson's father in the picture at all? For that matter is your daughter's father in the picture?  You may have said previously, but are you seeing a Therapist at all?

I'm asking because I'm wondering if you can get some more support in the real world?

Panda39

Thanks Panda. I know there is an open CPS investigation but that's all. My grandson's father has not seen him since he was a few weeks old, has been in and out of jail/prison until recently, and hasn't made an appearance as of yet. My daughter cut her father out nearly two years ago and never looked back. My grandson's paternal grandparents were cut off two years ago and eight months ago, respectively. She's in the process of discarding her paternal grandmother after a blow out last week. Yes, I see a therapist about twice per month.

I attended a class through my HMO today, Pathways to Emotional Wellness. It's a prerequisite for some other classes I'm interested in. The feeling like a failure is compounded by the fact that I went to this class and didn't do one thing that was suggested for dealing with stress; I poked the bear instead.

I've also sent in my interest to attend a BPD Connection (?) class in a city about 90 minutes away. I'm sure that's not what it's called but can't think of it right now.

~ OH

Hi only human,

I am so sorry this is happening. I feel like a failure as well, my daughter just cut off contact with us. It happened because I was honest with her like you were with your daughter. I hit a breaking point where I couldn't suppress my feelings anymore.

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Almost no one could be remotely ok in the situation you're in. I would have lost my mind if my daughter had a child. God forbid she gets pregnant.

You are totally within reason to say what you said.  I think it does a disservice to our kids and ourselves to not say anything ever. Especially when a child is involved. I think you're amazing and I hope you'll do something nice for yourself.

Good morning, yeah I'm considering asking my 17 yo daughter to move out too.  When she turns 18 I really hope she moves out to college.  But reality being what it is, I have to consider she'll sabotage her own success.  It's 7:08 am and I've already said "f$&@ you" to her.  I can't live this way. 

She's so physically small, so incredibly naive, so insanely unprepared for the world.  How could I push her out? My husband can't take it.  She hasn't looked at or spoken to him since Christmas.  She knows he's got cancer.  She does not care. 

I don't know.  I mean I know what all the books say and I know there's more resources out there for us parents than there was even a decade ago.  I'm grateful for it.  But when rubber meets the road it's just us and them, and it is impossible at times. 

So yeah when you remember how you should've had patience and empathy I say remember you should practice patience and empathy towards your own self.  You're a sane person making your way through insanity.

Hi Only Human,

    I have to agree with Faith Springs; we are sane parents making our way through insanity. And add to that making our way through uncharted mental illness situations that are different in every person and every situation. Picking up resentment is only natural, for me I find I do that more when I'm tired or worn down. Sounds like you are both. I too have my D and my grandson living with me. I'm his guardian and raising him. Like you I all too often hear him cry for his mom and she ignores him. My JJ is going to 7 in a few days, sometimes it tears my heart out that he is old enough to recognize that she is ignoring him.
   you are not a failure!   Please keep in mind when you think about conflict and feel you can't do what it takes to avoid it; self care must always come first. I want so desperately to shield my JJ from his mom but, that takes a TON of energy, on a daily basis. Sometimes I go through that ton in minutes. I'm grateful to have this place for my solace, this is where I come to get filled up again. I'm happy you are you, I'm happy you are there for your grandson.
  Be patient with yourself, be kind to yourself, you are doing the best you can right now. Things will get better.     hugs to you OH

Asking our uBPD daughter to move out when she was 20 was one of the best things we ever did, for us and for her. Our daughter is high functioning and had abandoned university in favour of a job that could support her. when we asked her to find her own place. Today, she is 27, and while many of the behaviours that led to us asking her to move out persist, overall our relationship has improved considerably.

What has always amazed my partner and I is the fact that uBPD DD has always been able to maintain ajob and meet her financial responsibilities. Of course, she has many of the social hallmarks of BPD and as such has a limited social life. She and her partner rely on each other for all their social interaction, which appears to be quite impaired due to them both having untreated mental illnesses.

Thank you all for the replies, it's sad that we are experiencing/have experienced similar struggles but helps to know I'm not alone as I sometimes feel. I'm greatful for the support.


Thank you for the reminder, blue9   I'm very new to the self care thing and it doesn't come naturally to me at all yet. Jason Mraz has a song called, Living in the Moment." I think I'll use some of the lyrics as my mantra while I'm interacting with my daughter:

"I'm letting myself off the hook for things I've done
I let my past go past
And now I'm having more fun
I'm letting go of the thoughts
That do not make me strong
And I believe this way can be the same for everyone"

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so sorry for your situation as well. What do you do when your daughter ignores your grandson? Does your daughter send snarky comments while you're interacting with your grandson? If so, how do you respond, if at all?

Today my grandson told me, "I like this house." I said, "I like it too!" He said, "Yeah, but mommy says she's trapped here." I said, "She said she's trapped here?" He said, "Yeah," I said, "Well, that's not true," My daughter said, "Yes it is, I can't legally move out now." My grandson said, "That's not true," and I said to my daughter, "Well, I don't know about that, and I don't believe it but if that's what you believe... ." Then the conversation ended.

I had lunch with my friend and took a nap afterwards. I'm preparing to leave now with my grandson for our Wednesday outing.

Thank you all for being here!

Hi Only Human

Like bluek9, I feel so sorry for what you are going through with your grandson. Its truly heartbreaking and I can only imagine how this must be for you.

Feeling like a failure... .hmm, remember you are Only Human

You clearly carry yourself with strength through the moments of crisis. I know that self care can be a challenge but it is important. Constantly being taken to a drak place can be very confidence sapping. Taking time to indulge in things that bring you happiness, no matter how small they can be very uplifting.

Having being cut off from my DD27, still fills me with as much pain as the drama she caused before being cut off.  While still grieving, I am focussing on many positive things to sustain me.

Thinking of you
Merlot

Hello Only Human,
I’ve read so many of your posts and apologize for chiming in so late. You are amazing! You have opened your home to your d and GS, coparenting him. You have done what you can and learn about this horrific illness. You made an incredible attempt to protect your GS by calling CPS- that took a huge amount of courage. You are continually dealing with some extremely difficult moments- over bearing Ds conversation, watching GS cry and be neglected by his own mother, listening to GS’s comments about abuse and then him turning against you. You are so strong, you are compassionate and want the very best for both your D and GS. Wow!

I clearly understand why you are considering putting D to the curb. I have attempted to put myself in your shoes- I am amazed at how you do keep it together. Your conversations with GS are so thoughtful and loving. I don’t know if I could do what you do day in and day out. I’d be pulling out my hair. And yet, you remain strong and present.

As for losing your temper- I still do lose it with my DD20 and say things that I regret. We are pushed beyond normal limits of parenting. It is bound to happen. You are aware of when it happens. That shows you have great insight. Love your moniker- Only Human... .Your moniker is a message to all of us, parents, on this board- we are all only human.

You know your own boundaries and limits and have to make decisions based on on those values. We are here for you and support whatever you need to do.

Hang in there, Only Human.

Daisy123

Thank you all for your replies. I've read them all more than once and really appreciate the support and empathy.   

Hang in there everybody!

~ OH

Hi OH 

Oof, it's no wonder you're feeling conflicted about considering asking your DD to move out, taking GS. As you say things are unsettled to say to least, this waiting time on CPS the uncertainty knowing when you'll hear from them and how they can help. Hang in there! 

bluek9 so very, very true "And add to that making our way through uncharted mental illness situations that are different in every person and every situation" every parent on this board is making their way through unchartered mental illness situations, OH you're not alone and you're doing brilliantly navigating your way, it's a winding road with twists and turns where we have to look after no 1, us … we're all learning with you, together.

Keep in your heart and mind you've done the right thing OH and everyday you are doing your very best.

Is there any glimmer of good DD behaviour at this time that you can target with positive reinforcement, validation? That might provide you some rest bite.

Interesting to hear your DD believes she can't legally move out, indicates she's thinks if she did a runner she'd be breaking the law. Do you see that as a positive, that she maybe compliant?

I hope you find time to chill out this weekend, self care. Any plans?

I'm so glad you found us OH   

WDx

How's it going Only Human, have you had some better days?

WDx

I'm keeping my ears and eyes open for glimmers of good behavior and yes, there have been a few instances. I'm still nervous about my validation skills and tend to just repeat what she says. For example, yesterday she apologized for projecting on me, I said "thank you," then she said, "I'm frustrated," and I said, "You're frustrated," and she said, "Yeah, this morning didn't go the way I expected," and I said, "It didn't go the way you expected," etc. It feels very weird to me, I don't know how to do it. I do see that when I parrot her, she says more but it just feels like weird. Before I went to bed last night I went out to the living room where she was sitting on the couch, playing with her phone. I said her name, she looked at me, and I said, "Thanks again for apologizing." She said, "Yeah."

She's kept the house a little tidier than she has in the recent past; dishes are done every night, bathroom is picked up. But so many things are just "left."

Today while GS was at preschool, she was being very loud in the garage while she was live-streaming. Cussing, raised voice, not angry just animated. I sent her a text, "Please remember to be respectful to our neighbors by being mindful of your volume and cussing in the garage. Thanks." She came in moments after I sent and said something about something getting in the way of my text and, what did it say? I repeated the text and she said, "Ok," and went back to the garage. She was still loud but no cussing. Tonight I walked up my neighbor's driveway while she was being loud, to see if I could hear her. I could, but it wasn't as loud as I feared. 


We had a very uncomfortable talk about that yesterday on the way home from dropping GS off at preschool. It's too much to put here but I walked away from it feeling like, "If I kick her out now, she'll have her "proof" that I'm out to get her." I think she believes if she isn't living here, she'll lose her son. She stated that CPS won't approve of her living on someone's couch. I also really think she has nowhere else to go.

As for being compliant, I don't know. Today she told me, "Since I stopped spanking him, he's become more violent." I believe she's a reluctant mother and GS is an inconvenience. It breaks my heart. I asked if we could work on a solution together and she said, "There's nothing that can be done."


I have a therapy appt on Friday and my weekly Saturday morning plans with GS. I'll have to come up with something to do this weekend, for me.


Me too! I'm so grateful for you all. 

~ OH

OH,    

OH, you are doing well with responses you're receiving.   It is a bit nerve-wracking to begin with practising validations skills, I relate to parroting stage, it is weird, in time you'll be more than just a parrot and your confidence will grow and yes sometimes validation feels unnatural and counterintuitive. I'm smiling about the loud music, cussing how as adults they have to be reminded and you carrying out your own sound test, happens occasionally here, I suggested to DD she carryout a sound test with the neighbour, they have 3 children under 9 and when you've windows open in the evening how sound travels  I recommend, if you've not already reached out for it.  The Power of Validation (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=166930.0), it is short and accessible and take you through real-life examples, and practices, how to increase the validation we use and decrease emotional chaos, there are useful exercises at the end of each chapter to help test our learning.  We've some information on asking validating questions, when I find it I'll pop the link in here.


I hope you hear back from CPS soon and gain certainty ahead for GD's well being. I'd be tempted to follow them up next week if you've not heard, hey we are here, we need help!  Alongside CPS review, it'll be an ideal time for you to decide what YOU want and need, an opportunity to press the restart button. While it was an uncomfortable conversation, to come away with an understanding how your DD thinks I hope is helpful for when you do make decisions and how you communicate them. I can't even begin to imagine how heart breaking this is for you, the reluctance to parent and your DD's limits. Your GS is lucky you are there for him, communicating what is and is not acceptable behaviour in your home.

Have you noticed GS being more violent, since your DD stopped smacking him? I'm sorry your DD closed you down when you offered to help her problem solve.

Onwards OH  

WDx

Thanks for the book recommendation. I've just now ordered from Amazon Prime and it will be delivered today! I look forward to the link on asking validating questions, thank you!


As the reporting party, I'm pretty sure they won't speak to me. I reached out with an email and telephone call and no response. The good news is, GS has zero bruises on his legs and arms. His legs, previously, were always bruised up. Something I attributed to "rough and tumble boy," but now I recognize as being from her kicking his legs, as he revealed to me.
 

Thanks WD. My focus is on being here for my GS and on modeling better parenting choices for my DD. Some of it may be sinking in for her as I've witnessed fewer angry outbursts in the last 48  hours, she seems to be more responsive, and GS is more talkative around her. Yesterday this exchange happened in the living room while I was on the back patio:

GS: Remember when you said SHUT THE DOOR SHUT THE DOOR SHUT THE DOOR?
DD: What door?
GS: This door (points to slider)
DD: Yeah, what about it?
GS: You yelled SHUT THE DOOR SHUT THE DOOR SHUT THE DOOR
DD: That sounds like me
GS: Yeah, that sounds like you. Please try not to yell at me again.
DD: I'll try

I teared up right there on the porch swing. I was so proud of GS for sticking up for himself in a calm manner, stating his need/desire. I was also proud of DD for agreeing to try.


Not really, no. Prior to the CPS call, he was getting into trouble at preschool for hitting and kicking.Yesterday he didn't hit or kick at preschool.


Yeah, me too. I know she views me as her enemy. She asked me yesterday, though, "When he has a bad day at preschool, do you think it's ok to take away his Memaw and (name) days?" I replied, "When you were having trouble in school, (her therapist) advised me to let the school issue consequences for the school stuff and to focus on rewarding good school behavior." She said, "I've been doing that, he keeps throwing the surprise away." I said, "Oh, he keeps throwing the surprise away - bummer."

She's got a "surprise" box in her bedroom (filled by me several months ago) and has been giving little trinkets when he has a good day at preschool. The first two times, he wasn't happy with the "surprise" she chose and threatened to throw the items into the garbage. DD let it go; a change for her as she's usually offended when he rejects her attempts at being "nice." Instead, she said, "That's okay if you throw it away." I don't know if he did or not as I wasn't in the room. I had to smile when she said something I used to say when she was little, "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit." Yesterday, as she was rummaging through the prize box (behind her closed bedroom door so he doesn't see where it's stored and what's inside), he said, "Oh I hope it's a XXX. She calmly told him, "I told you, I don't have that in the surprise box." She brought out a mini monster truck and he was excited. He's been playing with it ever since.

I offered her a hug yesterday and was rejected.

~ OH

Dear Only Human,
I am so sorry you are in this horribly painful situation. For almost 15 years we have felt our 32 year old DD has  BPD , she remains symptomatic and now abuses alcohol. We did much therapy, reading and even attended a  “ Family Connections” seminar. People recommended Alanon to help us deal with the BPD and bulemia and over all these years we tried it briefly a few times.Now alcohol is a big issue and  we remain very concerned for her 4,5 year olds.I am sharing this story because we restarted Alanon one month ago and it has given me peace of mind, a focus on self care and support  in an online Alanon. Without it I could barely sleep, worried non-stop and I was responding to her drama in unhealthy ways/ creating more .I am not sure but maybe it could also be a source of strength for you.

I am praying for you and especially your little grandson.Even if he does not show it right now, he needs and loves you. He is probably very confused.I hope CPS is helpful .There are some wonderful children’s books out there that help kids voice their feelings and even charts for the frig that label feelings with faces to help preschoolers understand when they are acting out.
Prayers,
Tinkerbelle

Hello Tinkerbelle  :hi:

Thanks, I attended Alanon when I was divorcing my DD's meth addicted father and found it very helpful. I liked that it was about taking care of ourselves, life skills, and not about the addict. I'll keep that resource in my back pocket and bring it out if I feel I need it. I'm glad you find it useful, it literally saved my life all those years ago.

I like the idea of a chart on the refrigerator, thanks.

I wish the best for you and your situation with your DD. I know how it feels to be so worried about the grandbabies. Thanks again for posting, I appreciate the support!  

~ OH

Here you go Only Human, excerpt from another excellent book.

Can you see how validating questions may help you?

The Power of Asking Validating Questions (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0)

Thanks WD, I'm here for a quick minute to ask about responding to this text from DD this morning at 7:50am.
Background: I wake up with and entertain GS4 until nap time on Saturdays so she can get a break/sleep in. He wakes up at 6 every morning and we go into the backyard after breakfast, usually around 7, the "end" of "quiet time" in our county.
I'm struggling with a response to this text, mainly bcz she is in the garage most nights past 10pm, the beginning of quiet time in my county, speaking loudly and frequently cussing.

Edited to add the text, oops:

"I always look forward to sleeping in this day I would like in the future him inside till a little after 8:30 I do that every day for neighbors even. I'm very cranky about this to be honest."  
Any ideas for a reply?

I'm not even sure what she's trying to say? I would probably ask questions, or not respond and ask in person.

Sorry if I didn't give enough info. I understand that she's asking me to keep GS inside the house until after 8:30 am because his voice is loud (her bedroom window faces the backyard). Just prior to receiving the text, she opened her bedroom window to tell GS to please stop yelling. She's letting me know that he woke her up and she's cranky about it. She's using the "I do this for the neighbors" angle because she knows it's important to me that we are respectful of our neighbors in terms of keeping our voices down when we are outside after 10PM. Our homes are very close together where I live.

I'm irritated because, prior to my calling CPS, she slept through our mornings together (GS and me), slept through us leaving for hours, slept through our coming home, story, and nap time. I'm irritated because she "throws my words" back at me. Just the other day I asked her to remember to be respectful of our neighbors - because she was in the garage being very loud and cussing. I'm irritated because there's a big difference between our neighbors having to hear her screaming at her boyfriend over the phone, calling him names, and cussing like a sailor, and the joyful sounds of GS enjoying his morning.

I haven't said anything because I don't know what to say. I believe it's unreasonable to expect him to be as quiet as she expects him to be. In fairness, we are all naturally loud people. We have loud voices, all of us.

Maybe I'll give her some earplugs and say, "I know it bothers you when GS and I are in the backyard on Saturday mornings before 8:30 because you feel we are being loud and disrespectful of the neighbors. My perspective is that quiet time is 10PM-7AM and by waiting until after 7AM to come out to the backyard, I'm being respectful of that time frame. These earplugs might offer you some relief."

Perhaps she is following your lead by sharing how she feels. We all want to be heard. That's sounds like a good compromise earplugs, you can always say we'll try be mindful you are sleeping, then it shows you are taking into account her feelings. What do you think?

Hi Only Human,

wendydarling has given you some really good links to Validation already and seeing as you said in an earlier post in this thread that you feel nervous about using validation, I thought, if you don’t mind, that I would give you this link to a video about validation and invalidation. You might have already come across it, but in case you haven’t, I think that you might find it useful, it’s a bit long, about fifty minutes but worth watching.

Validation (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=206132.0)

Regarding the text message, you mentioned about not knowing how to respond to it, I just wanted to say that if it was me I would probably have just replied  “ok” and left it at that. She was being honest with you by letting you know that she was feeling cranky. You could then discuss it later with her when she’s not so cranky, but then it’s probably too late now because you posted your question a while ago, and I’ve only just seen it. 

OH, that is such welcome news GS has zero bruising. It must be such a relief. I don't know how CPS works, thanks for sharing


This is excellent OH, and it's all down to you, be proud, it's amazing what you are achieving.

You are human.  I think you are expecting way too much of yourself.  It is your daughter's responsibility to change herself.  You cannot change her.  I know this message board and popular culture tell us differently. But, in the end, everyone is responsible for their own actions.  If you prefer to live with her great.  If not, do not feel guilty about asking her to leave to protect your own mental health.   I think that things will work out the same either way, you can't predict the future.

I've asked my daughter to move out in 30 days. This was yesterday afternoon and I'm all over the place emotionally. I'm angry, worried, sad, defeated, hurt, hopeless. Twice in the last week she has asked me for help and I wasn't able to help her (she wanted me to pick GS4 up from preschool rather than bring him; she wanted me to use my APP/CC to request a Lyft for her) Each time I told her, "I'm sorry I can't." She responded by berating me and hanging up on me. GS4 again has bruises on his legs. I don't know how long they've been there because it's long pants weather here so I don't see his legs every day.

Tonight GS4 said to me, "Did you kick mommy out?" I said, "Did I kick mommy out? What does that mean?" He said, "You kicked mommy out," and DD said, "I told you she evicted me, so I have to move out, and you have to come with me because you go everywhere with me." GS said, "aww, you kicked me out." I was speechless and so I said the only thing I could think of to say, "We can talk more about it tomorrow. I love you."

How can I have this conversation with GS? Tomorrow is our day - I'll wake up with him then spend the morning with him away from the house. We have plans to hang out with my cousin and her son.

I'm really angry at DD.

Oh Only Human,

You're so brave! You did a good job, you're doing a good job. You are in an impossible spot. 30 days is extremely reasonable. No wonder you're mad, your poor grandson is being used to get back at you.

I'm not sure I have any good advice for talking to your grandson except to keep telling him how much you love him. And his mom too. I'm so sorry you have to do this.

How did your daughter react when you asked her to move out?

Hi Only Human,

I've pulled some information off the co-parenting board that might help you with your Grandson.  It's about raising resilient kids (when you are co-parenting with someone with BPD)

Particularly the What to tell kids about a high-conflict co-parent and The Power of Validating How Kids Feel portions could be helpful. You might try asking him validating questions so that he can come to his own conclusions about things.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331459#msg1331459

Hang in there,
Panda39

Once again I'm so glad I posted.

HB, thanks for your enthusiastic support and for putting the word "brave" in my head. As you may know, less positive words are already taking up space in there... .failure, cruel, incapable, and the list goes on. I am brave, thanks for reminding me.

Panda, I can't wait to read your link. THANK YOU! The support here is like magic, I'm so desperate for help and POOF! There it is!

~ OH

OH, you are brave and lovely and loving. I know how you feel though, it's easy to go down that dark hole. I've been reading and rereading the parent's bill of rights that WendyDarling posted the other day...

Parents' Bill of Rights - https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=144903.0

It's making me feel so much better. To remember that I have needs too.

Sending lots of hugs

Hello again Panda,

I've read some of the information in the link you posted. I feel better about talking with GS about this stuff now. Thank you.

And Hello again Hyacinth Bucket, we are all over each other's threads... .getting through this together. I love the Parents Bill of Rights. I feel so guilty and afraid, but I'm doing the right thing.

Last night she sent a text I didn't respond to:

I need a hard copy of my 30 day notice please.

This morning, this happened:

Her: I'll say again I need a copy of the eviction notice. I need a hard copy and you withholding it even a day makes it harder for me to notify the proper people on time. I need it by tonight. I know you have a printer in your room.

Me: I'm not withholding, I haven't written it yet. The 30-days doesn't begin until I give you notice. I love you (name). I'm sad that it has come to this.

Her: I'm letting you know I have a video of you confirming you're evicting me and now I need the hard copy ASAP so you need to print me out one. I should have had it yesterday, I will expect it tonight.

Her: If I don't have it by tonight this is emotional abuse and you're holding my housing above my head.

I did not reply to those last texts.

I wrote the following letter with the help of my T.  I plan to leave it on the counter as GS and I are leaving for our weekly time together tomorrow. I'm hoping she'll still be asleep when we leave. I'm also hoping she won't say I can't have my time with GS. I really don't think she will, because I know how much she enjoys having him out of her hair. We also have extra plans on Sunday, GS and I. I bought tickets to a Halloween/Super Hero themed train ride at the train museum. When I bought the tickets last weekend, I asked if DD would like to come along, provided she pay for her own ticket. She declined but agreed GS would love it. I hope we get to go.

"10/27/2018

Dear DD,

I love you and want you to have the best in life. You make it very hard when you push me away and hurt me verbally and when I watch you hurt GS verbally and emotionally. I’ve begun to pull away because I don’t want to be hurt anymore. This doesn’t mean I don’t love you or don’t care about you, it means I’m doing what I have to do to protect myself.

After you’ve said terrible things to me, as I’ve watched you talk badly about me in front of GS, you’re asking me to be loving, kind, and thoughtful. But you continue to berate me and hurt me. When you ask me for help and I say no, it’s not because I don’t want to help you, or because I’m being hurtful, it’s just that I’m not able to in that moment. It hurts me when you blow up at me when I’m simply saying that I’m not able to help you. You have to understand that sometimes people can’t do what you ask. It’s not because they don’t love your or don’t care about you, they just might not be able to help.

When I say I believe you hurt GS verbally and emotionally, it doesn’t mean I think you’re a horrible person. It means I’m concerned and hope you will choose to find different ways to interact with him that don’t hurt him and that don’t negatively affect his opinion of you and that don’t negatively affect his opinion of himself.

I have not asked you to move out because I don’t want you here or because I don’t love you, or because I want to hurt you. I have asked you to move out because we aren’t able to get along anymore. This letter serves as a 30-day notice to move out no later than 11/26/2018.

I love you and hope someday you will seek treatment for your Borderline Personality Disorder. You deserve a happy, pleasant life and GS deserves a mommy who doesn’t yell at him and punish him for not being perfect."

OH ~ you are doing the right thing, as you say. When we honour ourselves, our feelings we find strength and clarity, you are a strong woman and as you say in your letter you care, you love. I'm glad you had support from your T to write the letter. Panda39, thanks for pointing to the co-parenting resources, there are many co-parenting grandparents here who'll be benefit from your share.

OH, I'm thinking of you and hope you have your time with GS as planned.

We've got you  

WDx

Hi OH,

What a great letter, it's perfect. I'll be waiting to hear how your time with GS goes, and how she reacts to your letter. I so hope you get to go to the train museum tomorrow, too. I'll be thinking of you today.

HB

OH,
I'm glad I could share the site's information, it's helped me so much too, in terms of my SO's daughters.

Your letter was heartfelt and I know really hard to write.  I hope you are able to have a good talk with your grandson and enjoy this special day together.

Panda39

My morning with GS went well. He woke me up at 6 and our day began. Breakfast, playing with magnets, riding his scooter in the garage, getting dressed and then off to my cousin's house for a playdate with her son who is five months younger than GS.

In the car, I said, "Remember I told you we would talk about me kicking you out?" He said, "Yeah, you kicked me out." I said, "What does that mean?" He said, "I don't know what it means." I said, "Well, I can tell you that mommy and memaw aren't able to get along anymore, do you know what that means?" He said, "I don't know what that means." I said, "We argue a lot, do you know what that means?" He said, "I don't know what that means." (I'm puzzled by this because I've heard him say, "Stop arguing guys") I said, "Hm... .well, arguing is when people don't agree," and he said, "Yeah, arguing is (a word I couldn't figure out)." I said, "What's (word) mean?" He said, "It means (word)" I said, "Well, I don't know what that means, but like I said, mommy and memaw are arguing a lot and so you and mommy are going to live somewhere else. I still love you very much and I still love mommy very much." He said, "I want to live with you forever." I said, "You want to live with me forever?" He said, "Yeah, I don't want to live at (DD's new internet b/f's name) house." I said, "Well, I really like living with you too but you and mommy are going to live somewhere else and even though were are not going to live in the same house anymore, I hope we can spend time together a lot." He said, "Me too. And I love you too." Then he pointed out something outside and we talked about that.

I said, "If you want to talk more about it later, you can always talk to me about it, ok?" He said, "Ok, I want to talk about something else." I said, "What would you like to talk about?" He said, "I want to talk about stairs." I said, "Ok, what about stairs?" He said, "(DD's internet b/f's name)'s house has stairs." I said, "Oh, does it?" He said, "Yes, and you can walk up the stairs and down the stairs." I said, "That's right, you can walk up the stairs and down the stairs." Then he talked about all the Halloween decorations we were seeing, asked if (cousin's son) was home, does he still have a scooter? does he want to play with me?, etc.

The playdate went ok. GS pushed and hit (cousin's son) a few times and yelled at him a few times. Consequences were handed out (take 5), and we got through it without anyone needing stitches =) My cousin is aware of what's happening and is very supportive.

There's more to this, of course, but I'd be here all day giving the play by play. The gist of it is that GS is dealing with a lot of tough stuff right now and his behavior reflects that. He told me he likes to hurt people, "it's what I do." I can't remember my response if any. My heart is breaking but I am strong in front of him.

As for the letter, I handed it to DD before GS and I left this morning, after I put GS in the car seat. I said, "Here you go, honey." She said, "Thank you." Nothing more has been said between us.

We got home around 11:30 and GS and I hung out on the back patio for about 15 minutes before I said, "Okay, I'm going to go into my room and hang out with (my dog's name) for a little while. GS stalled, trying to get me to hang out longer. I was patient but firm. I've been in my room for about 20 minutes and I can tell that he's now on quiet time before his nap.

I may also take a nap, I haven't decided yet.

Hi HB  :hi:

I didn't answer your question, "How did your daughter react when you asked her to move out?"

The whole conversation was a disaster. I started by saying, "Last time we talked, you told me you were making plans to move out. Where are you with that?"

Her: I'm making plans, I'm not going to tell you my plans. I told you I needed 3-6 months and then I'll be moving out of state.

Me: I don't think I can do this for 3-6 months

Her: Is this my 30 days notice?

Me: Yeah

It went downhill from there. She asked why, I said because she's not doing the things she agreed to do when she moved it. She insisted she was, I argued that she wasn't, totally got sucked in to the argument and focused on stupid stuff like her not keeping the house picked up, her not going to counseling, etc. She said the house is clean, I said it wasn't. I regret how I handled this interaction. I did say, "If someone talked to you the way you talk to GS, it would be unacceptable to you." I did say, "When I'm not able to help you, you start verbally abusing me and hang up on me."

She said, "You've evicted me, I wish T was here because everything I said would happen has happened. I'm always right about you."

She said, "I won't be doing any cleaning these next 30 days."
I said, "If you don't clean, I'll give you a three-day notice to clean or move out."
She said, "You can't give me three days notice, I have 30 days as a squatter, bitch."

She said, "If you're evicting me, where's my piece of paper, bitch?"
I said, "I'll give you one."

She said, "You do realize you're digging your own grave with your relationship with GS? Giving me 30 days notice is just speeding it up. I have one question, do you regret any of this?"
I said, "The decisions I've made I've made for me. I think it would be a bad idea if you keep me from seeing GS but that's your choice."
She said, "I won't tell you where I'm moving, but I will tell you it's out of state."
I said, "That's your choice."

I regret not saying I love you, I regret getting sucked in and being argumentative.

After all this, she got on the phone and started yelling about what happened. GS was at preschool, I know better than to have tough talks when he's in the house. I told her to stop screaming in the house. She said, "YOU EVICTED ME, I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE PISSED OFF AND I'LL SCREAM IF I WANT TO." I said, "Stop screaming in my house," and I walked away. I heard her say, "Watch, now she's going to call the cops on me." I turned around and said, "If you don't stop screaming, I will call the police to have you removed." She stopped screaming.

Not proud of either of us. But that's what happened.

~ OH

I think you handled it as well as you could have. I've been in that position and it's hard enough to keep calm let alone be present enough to say exactly what you want. I think your letter more than made up for anything you may have wished you'd said during the conversation. I think it also shows that you're certainly making the right choice, your situation is not tenable.

I'm glad you had a nice morning with your GS and I'm also sorry he's acting out so much. You handled your conversation etih him so well. You should be so proud of yourself. I think no matter what you said to your daughter she would have been belligerent. Having a good talk with your GS is so much more important. And you did an amazing job.

I'm also glad you're taking some time alone for yourself. Im not sure if you noticed your posts are much more confident than when you first joined. Do you feel more self assured? Or like you're regaining some control? It definitely sounds like you are from your writing.

I hope the rest of your day is relaxed and uneventful. Be very proud of yourself.

I don't feel more confident, but that may be because I still feel so fragile, weak, and my definition of "confident" is such a high standard. Thank you, as always, Hyacinth Bucket , for pointing out things I can't see for myself.

You're right, "I think no matter what you said to your daughter she would have been belligerent." I really think she was expecting the "eviction" and possibly lost respect for me after each verbal lashing I endured without standing up for myself.

When she was an adolescent, her T told me... ."Get a backbone because she needs to see you as a strong person. She needs to know she can count on you to be strong when she's weak."

Thanks also for reminding me that my conversations with my GS are more important. My current T said to me, "You've spent so much time and energy trying to help your daughter, she's letting you know she's an immovable force. It's time to put that energy into helping the next generation."

Thanks again, Panda39 , for the link. I don't know what validating questions I can ask to help him arrive at his own conclusions but I felt much more confident talking to him after having read the information you posted. 

Hi Gorges , and thank you for posting in my thread. Sorry for not acknowledging you sooner. 

These are words to live by, thank you.

wendydarling Thank you, as always. You are the first person who reached out to me here, your post and private message meant so much to me. Thanks for taking time to support me.

To everyone reading, cheering me on, supporting me, thank you. It's amazing to me that people have energy and time to support others even when they're going through it themselves. I hope someday I can do that too.

Today was a good day for GS. DD took him to the park after his nap and all of the interactions I overheard were mostly pleasant. DD passed up a few opportunities to badmouth me in front of GS, something I'm truly grateful for.

Good night everyone. I don't know any of you personally but I have great affection and admiration for you all. Thank you so so much for being here. I'm eternally grateful for having found my BPD Family xoxo

~ OH

Hi OH,

Were you able to go to the train exhibit today with GS?

HB

Hi HB  :hi:

Yes we did! It was a nice trip overall with some challenging bumps along the way. We started off at the Museum, where I thought Will Call was, but wasn't. Since we arrived so early, we checked out the museum first and I'm glad we did.

The train ride was about 45 minutes and GS enjoyed most of it. He teared up a few times, saying he misses his mommy and wants to go home because he'll never see her again. (This is the second time he's said something like this in the last few days. I'm suspecting she has threatened him somehow that if he talks about her hitting or kicking him, he'll be taken from her and will never see her again) Each time I did my best to validate him and assured him that after the train ride we would go straight home if he wanted to.

As it turned out, he chose instead to hang around Old Town for a bit afterward and we saw lots and lots of kids and adults in costume, he loved that part!

We ended our time back at the museum and he picked out a cool puzzle train track playset thing from the gift shop. He reacted angrily when I told him, "When we get home it will be wind-down time." He growled at me and screamed at me, "I don't want to do wind-down time when we get home!" I said, "Oh, you sound very angry." He said, "I AM angry!" I said, "Do you know why you're angry?" He said, "I don't know why I'm angry!" I said, "Do you think it's beause I told you it's wind-down time when we get home?" He said, "Yes!" I said, "And you wanted to play with your train set when we get home, right?" He said, "Yes!" I said, "Oh, it's no fun when we can't do what we want to do. You really want to play with your train set when we get home but it will be wind down time. I can see why that would make you angry. Thank you for telling me your feelings." He said, "So, can I play with my train set when we get home?" I said, "No, but you can play with it after your nap and there will be lots and lots of time to play after your nap." He said, "Can I have my train set on wind-down time?" I said, "That's a good idea, yes." He said, "Good." Then said, "Can I have my train set in my nap?" I said, "You can have it in bed with you but only if it stays closed." He said, "I will have to be very careful that it doesn't open up accidentally." I said, "That's a good idea." He said, "Good."

Whew!

Thanks for asking HB  

aww! Look at those validation skills     

I'm so glad you were able to go. You're an awesome grandparent! He is lucky to have you!

Thanks HB.

2nd aww HB, I love this

Then said, "Can I have my train set in my nap?" I said, "You can have it in bed with you but only if it stays closed." He said, "I will have to be very careful that it doesn't open up accidentally." I said, "That's a good idea." He said, "Good."

I wonder if it opened... .accidentally  :(

You are doing an awesome job helping GS make sense of what's happening, these are conversations he'll remember and you can do a re-do anytime if you feel that may help.

This is an interesting thread on co-parenting, you may relate having given it a go. We parent in many different ways, near and far, I think there are nuggets here of learning for us all. My DD's father has always been in her life, how he wanted to be, he's not 'parented' like my father, contributed financially, kept to any schedule, provide her the bedroom he easily could have. Contacted her when his needs, need to be fulfilled, one way track. They have a loving relationship, I could have blown it away, caused conflict, demanding him to deliver my expectations of how a father parent. My DD since late teens has been working out their relationship, she understands his emotional struggles, that he's not there for her, her needs. He struggles to understand her challenges and BPD, he acts as a child playmate, peer. It's all on his terms. I often questioned if I did the right thing, I went with my gut, I allowed him to be the parent he is, could be, she understands his limits meeting her needs and he continues to be the child, she is now the adult.https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=67574.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=67574.0)

WDx

Thanks WD 

I've just spent the better part of the last hour reading, reading, reading.

Today was a "good" day with communication with DD. She and GS are leaving tomorrow before I get home from work and will be spending the night at DD's friend's house, trick or treating with her friend and her friend's daughter. I'm looking forward to having the house to myself. It's been a very long time since that's happened here.

~ OH

That'll be a blissful evening, self caring   

Enjoy