BPDFamily.com

Hi family,

Haven't posted on here for a while.
Am in the inquiry, of what it would be like for me, to not talk about him, complain, write, think (hard one), anything negative... .
It has been a challenge to say the least.

Am sharing where am at in my journey.

With gratitude,

J

How do you expect this to change/challenge your life?

It would seem to be an issue to find balance with.

1.  On the one hand focusing on someone else's faults (or other shortcomings) is generally unhelpful since you have a limited ability to change them.

2.  On the other hand, if another person's faults (or other shortcomings) are having an impact on your life... .not talking about it or (heaven forbid) pretending it's not happening doesn't seem healthy either.  Since potentially there are things you can do to limit exposure to unpleasant things, even if you can't change them.


FF

I do not know.

The concept " making others wrong" and "taking their inventory" is used in 12 step recovery programs. Often a member is focused on what their partner or family member is doing that is "wrong" and then not looking at themselves or their part in it. This idea was very helpful to me- because it took turning the focus back to me, not only what I might want to change but what positive things I wanted. People who have co-dependent tendencies tend to be overly focused on the other person, and in a dysfunctional relationship, I think that is where the focus is a lot of the time due to their behavior.

This doesn't mean making myself wrong either. Many issues aren't binary- one right, one wrong- people are different and letting go of that assumption ( not talking about serious criminal behavior ) may lead to solutions we didn't think of before. It is also offputting to the other person- nobody likes to be "made wrong" and may cut down on conflict. Shifting the focus on to ourselves rather than the other person can help with our own growth.

It does not mean tolerating all behavior. That's where boundaries comes in, but reframed. We can say " this violates my boundaries, my values, I don't like this, this makes me uncomfortable, this is wrong for me". The shift is the focus on to me- not saying " I can't believe he did that, he's not reasonable, he was wrong to do that ( assuming I was right).

Great post n.w.
What helps me also, is being of service.
My issues somehow disappear when i do something unselfish for another human being... .
My life works!

As an ESTJ I'm obviously "comfortable" with "judging".  As I progressed in learning about boundaries and thinking through the concept of making others "wrong"... .I had to be clear about "what" and "who" I was "judging"

Now... .let's say someone pitches a fit and I don't allow that fit to cross my boundary.

I focus on judging the fit "wrong for me" which keeps the focus on me and my responsibility to myself to evaluate the world and hold my boundaries. 

The further discipline piece is that I don't view the "person" as "wrong".  Sure that person did the fit, I try to think through that the fit "works for them"... so I don't need to be involved in "fixing" their use of a fit. 

I do need to be involved in protecting from any activity (fits or otherwise) that don't work for me.

Hope that makes sense.   Thoughts?

FF

if that works for you.   can not go into judging you,
Or anyone else, as to your path.

You did not ask me, and i am glad you did not ask me.

So being of service to others brightens your outlook.   Mine too!

Thank you Cat.

My life is peaceful when i make sure am doing excellent self care, being my word, focusing on myself, being of service in my community, checking my attitude.   It's a wonderful life!

Blessings,  j

Isn't it interesting how frequently people seem to skimp on self-care? I think of a lyric to a very old Madonna song: "Until I learned to love myself, I was never loving anybody else."

And if we are "all one" then why on earth should we neglect ourselves?

OK, off the soapbox now. I'm saying this to remind myself to take the time to care for myself as much as I care for others.

Hi Cat,

If i didn't have my first sponsor, i would rant, rave, you name it.   Her one answer to anything i would say, is how is your self care.?

She could tell by my attitude and WHAT I was saying, my self care was non existent.
Little did I know then, it was the most important thing i never learned about.   I have a college degree and knew almost nothing about successful living.!

Take good care!,

j

Hi Juju,
Thanks for the reminder about self care. I was thinking of you when I had a revelation about housework yesterday.

Housework is a lower priority for me than gardening, animal care, being outdoors, etc. I'm very orderly and keep things organized, but dusting, vacuuming, washing floors, etc. is not my favorite activity. I can easily put it off, but then I realize that I feel kind of icky as I ignore it.

I had an aunt who always kept her house looking as though it were ready for a photoshoot, so perhaps that is what I compare to and always fall short. Though the dust bunnies aren't multiplying, I still feel much better if I regularly clean.

Anyway, thanks to you, my revelation was that HOUSEWORK IS PART OF SELF CARE! Who knew? But I realize it certainly feels that way when everything feels fresh and clean.

Now, my next challenge is the piles of paperwork. Yuck, but I know I'll feel better once that's done too.

Cat

Yes!  

I drove down to my childhood home yesterday and will be here for a week or so.  Before I left last time, even though I was in a hurry I took time to wash sheets and remake the bed.

Last night, after a long drive and long day, slipping into a crisply made bed that I had made sure would be waiting for me, with everything "just so" was heaven... .very relaxing.

As opposed to walking into chaos... .sometimes wondering where a pillow is or other thing I was counting on using.

 

FF

family,

a lot hasn't happened.
I have been living on breadcrumbs, finally got it.
We went to lunch, things were great, 1.5 hrs, this is after one month of emails, etc, breadcrumbs.
At lunch, he says what he thinks I want to hear, his r/s isnt good, "not much better", if he and i get together, it wouldnt be right away, it would have to be gradual, making sure we work thru our issues... .
those breadcrumbs led me to the place, am going to turn in the vehicle we bought, both names.
I just finally saw, it's all breadcrumbs... .

He has only words, empty words... .
My part is I wanted to put hope, wanted hope.
My part is.   I dont even know.

I really feel low.  I have blocked his phone, closed my email.  Am going to gather all his things, storage as soon as possible... .

I don't know who i have become.
I let myself down big time.

All it is, i wanted to have hope in a shadow.
a fairy tale.  He is in a bad relationship, only he can change that.  I cant imagine how he can be so cruel, to even give breadcrumbs. 
The worst thing i see is how dragged down I let myself be, only happy with shadows and crumbs, not seeing the depth of where i am.

I am an ill person.  Emotionally, physically, spiritually, broken.  The straw that broke, he told me yesterday, they are on a bowling league.

He never did anything like that w me in ten years... .
So i guess i have come full circle, this o.w. is me, with a guy who is contacting other women.   She gets to experience all of the disorder, being with someone, who is telling another woman, how bad things are, maybe him and her could get back, etc.
It sucks, both sides.    Being with him, unhappy, talking to other women, going out to lunch w them,
And it sucks being the o.w., getting pitiful breadcrumbs.  After ten plus years, i am the pitiful other woman. 

sorry.   this is who i have become.

and idiot me, after hearing about bowling, "It isnt as good as it sounds"!    he really said that.

After hearing all this, i texted him, awesome, you are bowling! You are having fun. 

It took me less than 15 minutes, after now 11 years of smoke and shadows, to start washing my hands... .

I am sick.   very ill.   couldn't go to work today... .

I do feel better sharing with you all.

I see no one gets much, what you do receive, it's tainted, he can't be where he is.   Wherever he is, he uses that space to find something better, complain, devalue, the entire time he is there, he wants to be somewhere else... .makes each place a mess; my space is a physical mess, i am an emotional mess... .

I am sure the person he is with knows what i am talking about.   He did say to me, she gets very upset w him, he looks at other women when he is w her.  So to him, being called out on his shti, makes it be "not a very good relationship".


so since he can't give anything, all he can give is smoke and shadows... .it's just a matter of proximity and how much I am willing to be in an unsafe environment... .how much smoke do i need.   How much shadow do i want... .?

One good thing that is coming out.
Being on the other side, i can see how being in a r/s w him was so upsetting.   How would I like my man to be always focused on these other women.?
He was always involved in inappropriate situations... .now I can see what goes on, and how devastating it is, to be that person, who is in a r/s with a ghost... .
All the time he has spent, texting me, emailing me, lunch every month or so.   This isn't new behaviour.

I see exactly how he hurt me... .it's devastating... .he is hurting her now... .

both sides, devastating. I knew he was communicating w his ex wife, the whole time we were together, even when we were on vacation... .

family, i still am not out.   It is a process... .I feel far from myself, very far... .It looks to me that my only hope is to never see, speak, or any way communicate w him.    that looks impossible to me now... .the whole time I was with him, i believed in him. 

   

Not making someone wrong applies to you too juju. This is all growth and learning. You don't need to accept crumbs from someone and you have come to realize this. It feels hurtful at the moment, but it is progress. Be good to yourself. Self care is important. Indulge yourself as you are worth it. Make your favorite meal, curl up in a blanket and watch a movie you like on TV, buy some fancy bath salts and soak in the tub. Get outside and take a walk in a park. Sometimes I think we tend to give ourselves crumbs too- but not this time. Eat cake! 

Thank you ff, thank you Wendy.

I just reread all the texting.  I was very kind.
no matter what i tell you guys, i love him.  Very much.

I know you all love your person too... .

Last nite I drank a lot, after, and today, am going to drink a lot.   

The truth is, i love that man.

Can anyone here carry this.   

Somehow getting everything out, giving the vehicle back, cleansing my life will make me feel better.
It will.

And if my heart never changes, so be it.

I dont even know why he called me yesterday.
After i drank like 6 beers, nati lite, my memory leaves.

What i see today, is i am valuable.   I may not see it now, and that's ok.

For whatever reason, i allowed someone to mistreat me.   That is the bottom line, it's a short story.
I did the best I knew how.   

juju- do you have a sponsor you can call?

You know that drinking isn't the answer. You are hurting right now. Drinking might numb that- temporarily. Please call your sponsor- or anyone in your group list. You can post here too, but in addition, your 12 step group is a voice on the phone- to hear you. They've been where you are. They won't judge you.

The other thing is, i wasn't ready when i asked him to leave.   Wasn't strong.  Actually became suicidal... .was thinking of who to give my animals.

So this entire time, am trying to gain strength in a horrible situation... .it's one year that we stopped seeing eachother, Oct last yr.

I am not reliable around emotional strength... .

All the stuff we went through.  I did a year by year inventory, it was unbelievable to me everything that went on.

One thing I remember him saying on the phone, he was going to get the trailer tires full of air... .we bought it when we were living together, barely scraping up the $... .he uses it sometimes, it's in his backyard.  It was unusual to me now for him to mention that little trailer... .

People.   I dont know what is going on.

Maybe someone here will let me know.
Do I need professional help... .?

Wendy.   Am not in 12 step for drinking.

Yes I will call my sponsor.

The other thing.   I would not put him thru this, if i was seeing someone else.

That's why I always thought there was hope.

Call anyway. It's all similar. I am not in 12 steps for drinking either, but how we deal with feelings isn't just with drinking, some of us are co-dependent, some are addicted to other things, and some are addicted to the people we love. You are hurting right now and your sponsor will understand.

You would not put him through this, but you are you and he is who he is.

Please call your sponsor. You asked if you needed professional help- if you feel you do - then get help. If you have any inkling of suicide or self harm, call 911. If you don't- call your sponsor now. If they aren't there, call someone in your group. Please call someone.

You are feeling hurt feelings right now. It is OK to feel what you feel. Your feelings may hurt, and it is scary, but feelings won't harm you. They eventually pass. It can take time, but they do pass. Have hope that his hurt will pass and get better. I don't know about hope for the relationship but there is hope for you as a human, you are valuable and worth it. Take care of yourself- call your sponsor.

So sorry you're hurting, juju.     

Because you would never hurt anyone the way he's hurt you, you assumed he held the same values as you do. Now you see that he doesn't. That's on him, not you.

Now that you are seeing him clearly, you see that he's doing the same pattern with OW that he did with you. I know it's really painful now, but it will get better.  

Cat

I know somewhere in there, it will get better.
do not worry.   I called on sick, and am enjoying the freedom for this day.   For whatever reason, am fine with it.   No one will be stressed extra by me being gone.


I cannot express how much all of you have saved my a$$.  When it matters.   2 a.m.

This place, community, is phenomenal.

With humility,

j

Good you are taking care of yourself. Take a long bath, watch TV, eat something good and rest up.

juju2

How did your call go with your sponsor?  Did the call change your perspective on things?

How did your self care go? 

   

Keep up the kindness!  Most especially to yourself. 

FF

Ff,  call went ok.  She backs me, whatever I choose.
Didn't tell her how bad i am really doing.

I had a dream that i was mentally impaired.  Was at this college I nvr seen before, playing football, and also baseball.  People were staring at me.
I didnt know why. Also i couldn't tell what team people were on or which game we were playing at any given time.
Then, walking back to the dorm, i looked down, i had no shirt, no bra on, was just flopping around out there, no one said anything.  I was so shocked.
Woke up feeling like a complete idiot.
Totally unaware.

Staying home today, i got a taste of alone I am in this world.

I am lost now, have been for a long time.

So many grand gestures, last year.
I see on relationship sites, to never ever look needy, absolutely no grand gestures, everything I have done. 

People, i did end up sending an amends email,
And I did confirm about vehicle being turned in.
Also, added my spare car to my insurance.  It wouldnt start!... .So in five days i can get roadside to come out and trouble shoot.  Car worked three wks ago.   If it needs repair, i may have to keep the other vehicle for a while more... .i did share this also w him in an email, he offered to give me a jump start.  I said i cant. 

I can't people, i am severely co dependent and i need help... .my story gets worse and worse, and still and all, i think my life is going well!

That nightmare I had seemed so real.

I will get myself together, and idk if there is a cure for my disorder.  I know it is very bad now.

The people in the meetings help.  seeing and hearing everything they have gone thru.  I have a new friend, from the meeting, she shared her horrible story, and how wonderful her life is now. She was in denial for a few years, w an ex.  I haven't told her my story... .

How she did it was with the program, one step at a time.  She thought back then, things would never ever get better.  She says her life is truly great!
She came through it!  Her husb of 17 yrs had an affair, then divorced her, and married his affair partner.  That was 18 yrs ago, and they are still married.  He was an officer, they travelled a lot, and she had a very high lifestyle, it all crashed down... .  crushed her.    She did get remarried, and she is very happily married, which she said, that was impossible to her going thru her previous life... .

From my friends story, i learn that becoming healthy will help me and my life.

It's about changed attitudes, can create a healthy happy life.   Thank God I know there is a pathway.
Have to get back on the pathway, my friends.

I can be strong.  I can be.

Also, over the summer, i met someone, two really nice dates... .he heard my story, and he said, all it is, is you have been in a toxic r/s.   All you need is to have a good r/s, then you won't be depressed, etc... .he really treated me well, and shared good information.   

He had something happen to him, from his past, and he said he had to go back East, for how long, he didn't know... .those two dates and talking in between helped me very much.
You guys help me.

And i sense the changes am going to make, vehicle and his possessions, will make me feel a lot better about myself.   I am truly seeing that,
It looks like.   Not that it will be easy.

Juju- it is ok to tell your sponsor how badly you feel. It is OK to share where you are in the group. Both the group and your sponsors are safe places. It's important to let them know where you are.

Improvement is possible. You have seen/heard it yourself. I admit it takes work. I've been working on it for a while. But it is worth it. Imagine not being co-dependent. It may not be perfect all of the time, but it does get better.

Sometimes it takes more than one resource. I have done both counseling and 12 steps. Do whatever you think you need. It's an investment in yourself.

   

Sometimes it takes time to collect your thoughts... to even know what to say. 

I hope that is/was the issue and that today you are better able to express yourself to your sponsor.  Can you call your sponsor back and be completely open and honest about your feelings?

We are in your corner... .

FF

Yes ff. I can.  Sometimes she gets short w me, she has heard my story so many times.
I couldn't handle it if she was going to be that way, yesterday.    She doesnt get how come i am so involved w this man who is gone... .She is getting too much info, and she believes I can get past this.
She is a lot more healthy than me.

She came over to my house one day and got so upset at all the stuff, she had to leave.
Maybe that was a good thing, cause she may have said something upsetting... .

I have other program friends I can call if i need to.
Am going to a meeting tonite, my home group.

Am using the tools of the program, awareness, acceptance, action... .  each A. can sometimes take a very long time, no one can do any of it for you, that is why advice is a no-no in the rooms.

My first sponsor, 6 yrs ago, said to me, you can learn to work things out, one way is to imagine your best friend came to you with ABC issue.

Try to be objective.   None of us is unique.  Someone has dealt w this exact issue before.

My new friend already helped me w her success story and how long it did take... .you all help me.
A lot.  Yesterday for example.   I was so down I scared myself... .

Hi family.  Am in the e.r.

My colleague heard about my day yesterday, and insisted I get an evaluation.

Am waiting for the doctor.

Has anyone read anything by Rick Reynolds?
Am thinking about getting his book.

Thank you,  Juju

I'm glad you are getting an evaluation, although I don't know what that means.  I've been wanting to respond to this quote, but have been trying to be considerate of a best time.

The time seems right.

The truthful answer is there is no way for us to tell if you need professional help.

Professionals are the only ones to determine that.  I'll break that down more specifically... .Psychiatrists and Psychologists, working together as a team are where you want to go.

If there are specific things that you are concerned about the language you need to use with this is please "rule out" that I am dealing with (let's say depression or bipolar or insert label).

That's very different than saying "hey doc... what do you think".  When they "rule out" they will likely do extensive testing.

I've done this.

I have a Dx of PTSD.  Years ago my wife became convinced that I was bi polar (among other things).  Plus, with as much crazy as I had in my life, seemed like a good idea to do a "deep dive" and see what was going on.

MMPI and PAI were some of the tests I did.  Extensive interviews and examinations over a period of time. 

This resulted in a long report that basically said.  FF has PTSD.  FF only has PTSD.  Here is why we believe FF has PTSD.  Here is why we believe FF does NOT have (x, y, z).

Based on this... .these are our recommendations.


My life is so much better.  My understanding of PTSD is that it never gets "cured".  My current Psychologist likes the term "in remission" and she likes the analogy of a hurt knee.  Many people use a brace when they do strenuous things.

I "use a brace" deliberately, when I am in stressful situations, because of a longstanding "injury" (PTSD). 

Hope that makes sense.

Clarity:  I'm not suggesting you have any particular diagnoses.  I am suggesting that being deliberate about sorting out what is going on with you is a wise step.  I imagine your life will be much better as a result.

FF

Thank you f.

Am dx w serious depression.  Am on 2 meds for that, e.r. doc suggested I go in for ofc visit w my primary care.  It's time for my annual physical anyway. And e.r. doc thought it may be my thyroid, he said if its out of whack, can cause depression, among other things.

Thanks for everyone's support these last few days.
Again you all made a difference!

Thanks for being open about your DX with depression.  I had a Dx of PTSD for 3 years (and had done some treatment) before I went through the process of "ruling out" other issues and "confirming" the dx of PTSD.

At the time, it wasn't fun, but it did help me be more confident after that I was going on the right path to care for me.

I hope you will consider a similar pathway, although I can't imagine that being productive without first making sure the thyroid is within some sort of normal range. 

I am blessed that mine has never acted up.  I have some dear friends that have struggled with it over the years.  Years of stability and then out of the blue a period of many months to get it stabilized again... .with the accompanying chaos (instability) while getting it settled.  Not for the faint of heart.

I suppose my closest thing was getting another sleep study done and finding out my sleep efficiencies were in the tank.  It was a process to get them back.

Hang in there... we are rooting for you!

FF

Thank you f.

Am going to see him Wednesday, he is bringing our cat back.  She stayed w him for almost four months.  He has her on some medicine the vet gave, and he wants to show me how to give it to her... .so I will be concluding all connections, end of oct, and the possessions thereafter.  He has reached out to me more, and he asked to call me, the call I got so upset about the bowling... .my sponsor thought the bowling wasn't a big issue.
And at lunch, last wk, he did talk about us getting back together, we would have to go slowly, work on our issues.he said he is ready to break up w that lady... .then I got all crazy during our last phone call, two days ago... .stupid bowling... .idk family.  The psychologist I am going to see, she has exp w BPD, and she is the one we saw for couples counceling... .

Am I overreacting.?  Looking back, it seems like he is trying to move closer, and definitely more forthcoming... .does anyone know what is going on?   Am I on the right track, escalating my detachment.?

No... you are not.

One of the things that I've observed about you and give a      to as you work through all this is you are being more clear to us here on the family, sponsors, pwBPD... and others about what is important to Juju2 

Let that continue.  You are developing your truth and letting others react to that... .  Bowling was a big deal to you... that's what matters.

FF

Thank you f.

What is going on, with him keep telling me that he is ready to call the r/s, she is always bit#$ing at him, he isnt going to live this way, etc... .that he want us to see if we can work out, etc, slowly... .
can't just jump in to where we were... .all that sounds good, doesn't it.   The bowling doesnt mean that much to him... .

Really, he is reaching out to me more... .
Do you have any insight.

Thank you,  j

Juju, you might want to look this over and think how it might apply to you:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63989.0

Thank you Cat.  That's good info.  Appreciate it.

Did something hard.  Emailed him, cannot see him anymore, as long as he is seeing someone else.

He emailed back, sorry you are having such a hard time.  I respect your wishes.

and i am angry at all the stupid hoops I went thru, now one year, and before that, ten years... .

I was my worst enemy, my people.

Juju- now that you have done this, I hope you will stick to it. Not about him but for you. Stay true to yourself. You made a decision to not be involved with him while he is seeing someone else as it feels hurtful to you. Respect that about you. You don't want to do things that are hurtful to you.

We can get addicted to drama in a relationship. Emotional ups and downs are like highs and lows. There will be times you feel like you are going through withdrawal. These are times to lean on your sponsor. I am glad you went to the doctor for help.

Be good to yourself. This isn't about him, it's about self love, and self care. Take care of yourself.

Be good to yourself. You learned from this. If you feel angry that is OK to feel what you feel, but be gentle with yourself. You are your own best friend. 

The person he is with, he told me, has no friends, doesn't go to recovery.   It isn't the person i thought before... .at any rate, i am sure he feels needed, and that was missing in our relationship... .I was more needy.   Than authentically needing.

He said, she gave up everything to be with me... .

Juju- keep the focus on you. There is nothing wrong with you. If he needs someone to give up who she is to be with him, you don't want to be that person. Also- he can say anything- that doesn't make it true.

Take care of you. You are your #1 right now.

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