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Hi,

I'm well into my second 'holiday' week to try and heal my physical illness. I have been resting, trying to listen to my body and my soul, trying to live in the now instead of my usual 'should' and 'must' world.

I have never felt so low (or so it seems).

Yesterday evening was bad. 2 neighborhood kids were playing at our house. Suddenly there was a slamming of doors and a lot of discussion, 2 factions blaming each other. I just cannot resolve these kind of issues. I cannot take sides, I cannot act decisively, and I always feel like I have to intervene. The neighborhood kids went home in a huff, S7 was in tears and I felt I was a failure as a parent.
This morning I did not want to get out of bed. I did not want to start the day. I forced myself to get up when I heard the children were already getting dressed in the bathroom.
Later this morning DH called from work for a chat. He asked me why I was so hard on D9 lately. He said that even the slightest question seemed to get me on my high horse and made me irritable. He asked me to calm down and try to control myself when interacting with her.
I am glad he told me this, because I hadn't realized it myself, but it made me feel a lot worse.

What is wrong with me? I am beyond crying. I just don't WANT to do anything any more. This morning my hands were shaking like crazy. I am deadly tired. I am eating unhealthy stuff. I wake up at night and can't get back to sleep. I haven't had a real laugh, or even a smile in a long time. I am sick of being sick, tired and sad.

I'm sorry, this isn't a very useful thread, I know... .I just need to know there's a way out of this.

Any tips on how to get myself back onto a more positive track are very welcome.

Libra.

Hi Libra,

Glad you decided to pop in. First of all... .    

Second of all I'm hearing depression in your post, that complete lack of energy, up when you want to sleep and sleeping when you should be up... .like walking through sand   No I can't diagnose you but I have been there too and your post sounds very familiar to me.

I'm sorry if you've already said but are you seeing a Therapist?  While I'm playing Dr. Panda have you had a physical lately?  I discovered that my thyroid medication was off and it was causing a lot of sleep issues for example.  (Bet you never thought you'd be playing Doctor with a Panda   ) Okay, I can hear your eyes rolling from here! 

Seriously... .
In the short term, can you go for a little walk?  Exercise can help your sleep, counteract the not so great food, and help your mood    Maybe take your daughter too and just have some one on one time with her?

I'm sorry your feeling so out of whack, but it's only now in this moment I'm optimistic that things will get better.

Hang in there 
Panda39

Hi Libra.

I want to second what Dr. Panda said about depression.  It is the first thing I thought of when reading your post.  Depression can be a bear to deal with so think about seeing your local doctor.  Dr. Panda is great but she can't examine you very well online!  I am on one med for depression and another for anxiety and they make a world of difference.  I still feel depressed and anxious but the feelings do not consume me. 

You have uncovered a lot about your past and are looking at things differently in addition to dealing with your usual stressors and just life in general.  Think about therapy too.  We can still support you here (always!) but it is nice to have another person who focuses just on you and helps you.  I know your husband is supportive too so that is good.   

Libra... .this is an important thread.  You are talking about you and you are reaching out for help and support!  That is what we are here for.  It is also helpful to others reading this too.  As a matter of fact, it reminded me that I need to get my meds tweaked!  So thank you.

You matter and your voice is an important part of and adds value to this community. 

 

Unresolved wounds carry forward into our relationships which is why most of us ended up here.  It's tough dealing with your past pain and feeling guilt over your interactions with your family. Depression can be a vicious feedback cycle (I struggle with this),  and I agree with Panda that being out might result in changing your body chemistry enough to help break out of the down cycle.  

Have you seen this? https://bpdfamily.com/content/depression-stop-being-tortured-your-own-thoughts

You've spoken about your parenting. As a parent, I'd be upset about my kids having a tiff with neighbor kids, but also that had nothing to do with you and part of life is they learning how to deal with conflict. Short of a blood feud, things like that usually blow over, especially at their ages.

As a former mental health worker. Yeah can you believe it?  I think you need a physical and an then an assessment for depression. This level of depression is just not feeling sad or having a bad day but it is effecting every aspect of your life and relationships and its not good. sometimes we need to take medication to get on top of things and to get things back in order so we can then address the hard stuff.
It seems you need a break from it. Depression can irrationally reinforce everything you believe about yourself that on a better day you would disagree with.  PS sometimes kids need to sort out their own problems. . Its how we build resilience and problem solving into adulthood.

This is a good point.  I'm doing OK  this week,  for example, but last week, as you say,  this week's Turkish has trouble rationalizing or integrating with last week's Turkish where I felt days of despair.  It's hard to give ourselves grace when growing up we received little or nothing. 

Hi,

Thank you all for your replies. I was very reluctant to post yesterday evening, but I am glad I did. It is so easy to get sucked into a downward spiral and lose perspective.

Dr Panda, thank you for those hugs. I needed them. 
As for a therapist. I cancelled about 4 weeks ago. Firstly because I was feeling well (oh irony), secondly because I think that T can no longer help me. He was great for helping me work on my current relationship with my mother, but he does not seem to get how I am struggling with my past. Or I am unable to get them across. Last session I talked about how interactions with D9 made me feel anxious because so much reminded me of my mother. He then talked about his own struggles with his 3 teenage kids for almost an hour, ending with the message 'Every parent struggles with this. You think you've got it bad now, just you wait till they hit puberty!' I talked about my struggles with D9 in a thread here as well. The thread helped me so much more than my T had. At the moment I really don't feel up to looking for a new T, nor telling H that I after all the therapy I've had, I'm looking for more elsewhere.

Harri,
Thank you for adding your voice.
Yes, my husband is very supportive... .up to a point. Meds are a bit of a taboo here though (like alcohol is for me). Those are some fleas he is still carrying from his teens... .I guess nobody's perfect   
Don't get me wrong though, I do believe they can be a great help. I am glad they exist and help so many people. I simply want to try getting through this without. Or maybe I'm in denial again... .
Keep repeating that, and maybe, someday, I will really really believe it. 

Yamada,
Yes, I absolutely can! I think many of us were well trained to sense others' needs and to help others, so it fits, doesn't it?
Thank you for that. It is a very good description of what seems to be going on in my mind right now.
The thing is, I KNOW that, rationally. But when in the moment, I cannot see this anymore. I feel the urge, the obligation to solve, to make everyone feel all better again. And I feel an absolute failure for not being able to do that.

Turkish,
Thank you for the link, I had not read that yet. I will start reading and processing.
I am sorry you were feeling so bad last week. It is not a fun place to be in.
Can you pinpoint what causes the difference between the Turkish of last week and the one from this week? What makes you tip over to one or the other side?
Maybe we can learn to give ourselves that little nudge that keeps us away from despair and pushes us into calmer seas?
I would really like to be able to rationalize these feelings or their origin. Maybe that would help me simply accept them and move past them more easily.


I  am mostly doing ok during the day.  I have been trying to uproot a stump of a 30 year old tree manually. It has been very therapeutic: a battle of wills against roots.
It is once I have to stop doing such simple things to partake in daily life that I start struggling. Evenings are hard. I just want to be left alone, instead of interacting with my family, which in return makes me feel guilty.

Could this not rather be an emotional flashback kind of thing instead of depression? I am just guessing here. I still don't really understand what an emotional flashback is or how to recognize it. And I am trying to stay clear of depression. (I know, denial doesn't help... .but at least I'm not denying I might be in denial... .).

I know this post probably sounds very positive compared to the previous one. I'm not suddenly happily dancing around though. I am feeling very wonky and all over the place, but trying to keep a positive spin on it... .

Thank you so much for your support. It means a great deal to me.

 
Libra.

Hi Libra,

Glad to get your second post, you are sounding better, not quite so down.  I know from experience those feelings can fluctuate.  Better is good 


Yes! to yamada's comment. I thought the same thing when I read your post and at the same time as a mom I recognize that wanting to protect your daughter and fix things for her.  What's good is you recognize this in yourself too. To me the key is to recognize that sense of obligation but let it go... realize that obligation is a feeling and your rational brain knows something else... .she and her friends can work out their own problems.  You can help but I would maybe wait for her to ask for it or talk with her after the fact... .do some validation of her feelings and help her problem solve. 

You might at some point try moving more towards a "Wisemind" way of thinking it is not just emotional feeling or rational thought but an overlapping of the two.  Wisemind can be really helpful in terms of controlling those knee-jerk emotional responses, like anything new it takes time and practice, but I did want to throw this tool out there, to put in your back pocket.

More on Wisemind... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0

None of us here can make you do something you don't want to do or aren't ready to do and at the risk of sounding naggy (is that a word?  ) I want to encourage you to seek out a new Therapist    Your right about the last one, based on what you described was not going to be effective and meet your needs.

Maybe we could brainstorm... .Are there good places to find a better Therapist? Is one type of education/certification better than another? What are some good questions to ask a potential Therapist? etc.  Is one type of Therapy better than something else?

Panda39

How are you doing Libra? 

Let us know how you are when you can okay?

 

Hi,

Thank you all for your replies, hugs and advice.

I have been struggling on all kinds of levels.

My health is still not ok. I've been forcing myself to go back to several doctors every time things seem to worsen again. Spending this much time/attention/money on myself costs a lot of effort. Normally I would just grit my teeth and wait till things pass, but after several months of illnesses I am worn out and I don't think that is the way to go any more. Last week one doctor had me do a test for Lyme, and it was positive. I am now on antibiotics and I should still be able to heal without it becoming chronic. It is a relief to have someone acknowledge I'm not going completely bonkers when thinking my body was not healthy. It has been an inner struggle not to ignore these signals and to keep going back to say something was wrong.

Mentally I have not been doing great. It is hard to discern how much of that is due to being ill, and it is even harder to try and do something about it.
I have not been working on myself or my past, I am struggling too much with simply coping day to day at the moment. Everyday tasks stress me out, I've burnt more meals the last 2 weeks than ever before, mutli-tasking is out of the question, and by the time D9 goes to bed I am just about ready to crawl into mine.

DH is still very worried. He can see I am struggling. He pulls most of the workload in the weekends, gives me space, but I can't hear myself thinking from all the noise in my head, let alone try to get in touch with my feelings.

DH suggested I go off on my own for a couple of days, to give myself some quiet time. It sounds so appealing. I had a look around. There is a retreat I could go to this coming weekend. 5 days of solitude in a quiet environment, with daily meditation and no pressure, no appointments, no noise.  I so much need something like that right now. But that would mean taking leave at work again, spending a lot of money on myself, and abandoning my family for 5 days. Even with DH telling me thats bull :cursing:, I still can't bring myself to do it. I feel so guilty for not being the full me for my family at the moment. I can't just head out for 5 days... .and what if I'm still just as confused afterwards? It would also feel somehow like acknowledging I am a failure, I cannot even manage daily life, even with support from DH.

Panda39 and Harri, yes, I acknowledge that I probably need more therapy. I want to focus on healing physically first. I also have no idea what kind of therapist I should be looking for, or how to proceed in finding one. Maybe I will start a new thread about that once I feel up to it. I could certainly use some advice as well as techniques to 'inteview' an T and to say 'thanks, but no no thanks', if I get the feeling it is not what I am looking for.

I feel like crying, but I'm at work. So I'll just go get a coffee and then try to focus on work again (which has NOT been happening these past days... .).

Talk about letting yourself down.

Libra.

Hi Libra,

Panda here having my break and cup of coffee too. (where's the emoji with a cup?) I hope a warm cup of joe is helping you feel a little better.  

First of all you have an awesome Hubby, super supportive... .he's a keeper  

To me the Retreat sounds wonderful.  I see it at a way for you to re-charge your batteries and then you can better take on the other stuff.


Interesting choice of words here.  Your husband clearly doesn't feel like you are abandoning him, he's encouraging you to go. Why do you feel you are "abandoning" them?


I know we use this around here all the time but sometimes a reminder is good... .When we are on an airplane and the oxygen masks come down the flight attendants instruct us to put our mask on first and then help someone else.  Why because we can't help anyone when we are unconscious.  Libra, it sounds like you are almost unconscious I encourage you to put on that oxygen mask and go on the retreat.

You yourself say you aren't being fully present... .so how is that different from going on a short trip?  The difference is that the retreat is healing for you, recharging, is self-care, and can support you in being more present with your family. Trying to slog through and tough it out is not helping you and is not giving your family the best Libra.


I'm going to encourage you to stay in the present here.  None of us can predict the future.  How about you do the retreat with a goal rather than expectations.  Maybe the goal is for you to relax, and lower your stress.  Maybe the goal is to focus on yourself for a week.  Maybe it's developing some clarity about your physical health issues and how you want to tackle that.  Maybe it's learning how to build meditation/self-care into your routine at home etc... . 

I can see by what you've said that your husband values you very highly.  He loves you and thinks your care is very important and I would guess that your children feel the same.  What I question here is why you don't see yourself as valuable enough to deserve to go on this retreat.  Why is taking care of yourself last on your list of things to take care of?  Why does taking care of yourself making you feel bad/guilty?  These might be some things to look at/think about.

Take care of you, it truly is okay to do this... .it is essential really.  
Panda39

Hi Panda,

I’m on to morning coffee now. A new day brings new energy.
Yes, Hubby most definitely is a keeper, I know! We're together for 20 years this month 
After reading your post (thank you!  :hug and  with a last gentle push from DH, I booked the retreat yesterday evening.  I had another surge of guilt right afterwards, but I am actually looking forward to it now! 

Good question, thank you for that.  Because being there for my primary family is my main priority in life, I guess.
Ignoring my own self and giving everything for others I care about is still my standard modus operandi. It is exhausting and I need to change it.
I thought I had changed it, but I now realize I did a very unhealthy thing: I have drastically downsized the amount of contacts I have. I have not met up with any of my own personal friends for more than 2 years. I only still see those friends DH and I have in common, and that is because DH initiates these contacts. I seem to have built a wall around myself instead of setting boundaries. I used to be the most social of the 2 of us. Now DH often laughingly says that he has become the more socially open one. He is right. That is a sad thing to realize.

Reading these sentences made me realize how harsh and unforgiving  I am for myself. Self-love and self-compassion are just not present, are they? I don’t know why.
It is definitely something I need to work on. I don't really know how though.

You have such a clear, straightforward way of putting things, Panda. Thank you for that. I needed some clarity. 

So. I will be leaving Saturday morning for my 5-day retreat. I think I should have some kind of goal, something achievable and concrete to do/not do, to work on in those 5 days. I want to avoid feeling disappointed at the end because of subconscious, high expectations. Should I print the LESSONS from this board and take them along (I admit, I have not worked with them yet). Should I try to write some things down? Should I just take some really good books along? (I used to be a voracious reader…I started reading a non-BPD related book for the first time in more than a year this week). Or should I just go there and see what happens?

Any tips for optimal enjoyment of my exclusive me-time are more than welcome! 

Libra.

YAY!

So glad you decided to go. 

Definitely take a non-BPD related book or 2 depending on how fast a reader you are and then just go and see what happens.  Maybe come up with a small... .I said small... .goal once you get an introduction,and sense of the direction the retreat is going. (No taking on world hunger, world peace, BPD and everything you have going on at home!   )

The big goal to me is that you unwind, relax, get more centered, and clear your mind.  Then you can go back home and tackle some of the things on your plate, in a better place to take them on. 

In terms of seeing your friends, I can do the same thing when I feel overwhelmed.  I also have the compulsion to do all the things I have to do, before I can relax and enjoy the things I want to do... .Yes, the Panda is a little bit OCDish  It is really about finding balance in our lives which can often be much tougher than it sounds.  My SO is really good a nudging me into relax mode just like your husband is nudging you to go on the retreat my SO will nudge me to get more social (I'm also introverted).  I hem and haw and drag my feet, and then I go and have a good time     For me it is about letting go of all those "have to" do things just for a little while.

I hope you have a wonderful time and I hope you'll share how it went.

Panda39

Libra,

My D29 has Lyme, and let me just say that while some of this depression and fatigue can probably be linked to the things you are dealing with from your childhood, Lyme also affects mood and depression very much. I see it in my D and also in the patients with Lyme who come for treatment in the doctor's office where I work. So needless to say I am glad you are seeking and getting treatment for the physical too right now.   You aren't crazy for feeling sick.

What would you like to do in your quiet time? Sleep? Walk? Rest? Read? Sit quietly with your feelings? Do you journal?

I suggest a coloring book and colored pencils or crayons or markers, but don't pick those extremely detailed I-can't-make-my-marker-fit-in-that-tiny-space designs, okay?  Those designs are not quite so relaxing for me! Don't forget a pencil sharpener if you take colored pencils.

My last suggestion: take along a very soft stuffed animal to hold and sleep and cuddle with. Teddy bears are marvelously healing and comforting.

 
Wools

 Wools,
You have some great ideas, love the coloring book idea!  Made me think of something I saw and shared with my friends on Facebook the other day.

It cracked me up... .hope you and Libra get a kick out of it too

(https://scontent.fapa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43164551_10155797285307584_1667095906744270848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.fapa1-1.fna&oh=f71b4d01b3d3f3b25372b932bb457046&oe=5C44E046)

Panda39

  Panda.

Panda39,

  Oh that is so funny! Exactly!

Btw, you had some great ideas for relaxation, Dr. Panda! 

 
Wools

Thank you Panda and Wools for your tips.

Panda, you crack me up... .Even I can manage to de-stress with mandala-coloring that way!   

I haven't really thought about it in that sense. I simply want to find peace of mind, really.
But I get what wise Panda is saying: no shoulds or expectations, no BPD, no stress, just go, be, and see what happens. I will try that, though my mind has trouble with the concept at the moment. And I will be taking along some novels, a coloring book and pencils  (and a sharpener!).

Wools, I had actually already considered taking along my Panda-bear from my teens. My aunt - who's been excommunicated since many a year by my mother - once gave it to me when I was very down and visiting her with my mother. That Panda has helped me through many a difficult and lonely time.
There are 2 problems though: firstly, I gave Mr Panda to my daughter a couple of years ago. He is now part of her ever-growing extraordinary and cuddly zoo. Secondly, he is quite large. If I take him along, I will only have room left in my travelling bag for some socks, underwear and a tooth-brush.  I might still try to tuck him in there somehow though... .

It will be very strange to not be able to connect to this board for 5 days... .I will miss my BPD family almost as much as my primary family.

Take care all of you 
Libra.

Wools,

I almost forgot: thank you for sharing your knowledge on Lyme and validating that I am not going crazy for feeling sick.
I feel like I am slowly getting back my mind and clarity only since yesterday.
I hadn't even realize just how ill, down, disoriented, etc. I had been feeling.
It is a ghastly beast.

Bed time now!

 
Libra.

Libra you are my kind of people!      A Panda person! 

Panda39

Just wanted to let you all know that I've found evidence that even relatively big pandas can go on trips:

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/fb/27/4d/fb274db4f3c26cde6ed94c346b7b8c32--sidecar-panda-bears.jpg)

I am a purely evidence based parrot you know

 :  

Panda39

Hi,  :hi:

I thought I might give an update after my 5-day retreat. I mainly slept, hiked and read a lot. I greatly enjoyed the silence and solitude.

Physically, it did me a world of good. It helped me to feel rested and relaxed, and to let go of all the shoulds and to-do lists that keep filling up my head. Emotionally, it was a roller coaster.

At D3, on my daily hike, I finally enjoyed myself again. I SAW the beautiful nature all around me, and I soaked up its energy. I enjoyed little details. I was smiling.

At the same time, tears were rolling down my face. I saw how I still carry a lot of hurt and grief in me. I also saw how I have been acting out towards my husband and children. I had a feeling of resentment towards them: they give, but also need unconditional love. For them this is natural. For me, it felt like a bottomless pit I had to try to fill up. I realized I was mixing up giving unconditional love with living/serving only for them. I had become a shadow, enabling the lives and happiness of others, but forgetting all about myself. I blamed them for this, but it is not their task to look out for me. It is MINE. It felt liberating to know it was up to me to change this, and that it would  not mean that I was failing the people I care most about. On the contrary: I can be myself, take care of myself and STILL give unconditional love to those I truly and deeply love. I realize I picked up these patterns during my own childhood. I know I have to be careful not to fall back into old thinking patterns. I need to reframe my definitions of love, self-care, selfishness, empathy, …

D4 was heavy. While hiking again, I felt some deep feeling welling up. I did not push it down as usual, I just kept hiking. After a while, my whole body started aching and shaking. I simply doubled up and started sobbing, crying. My whole body seemed to be screaming ‘Mother, WHERE ARE YOU?’. I felt so alone. I let it all out. I felt at peace with myself afterwards.
I am still carrying this grief, it is on the surface now. I can recognize it, and I am trying to sit with it, to accept it.

By the end of D4, I was longing to go home. I wanted to be with my family. It no longer felt as a burden. It felt as a blessing to have such beautiful people as a family. 

Wow. Writing this out was not easy. It has left me feeling raw and full of sadness.

Last Friday, my mother came to our place to see the children after her 3-week holiday. I had to work, but DH was home. While on the phone with DH during lunch, I invited her to stay for dinner so we could chat a bit. She declined. Her car was in our driveway and I wouldn’t be able to park my car on its regular spot if she were to stay for dinner. What a lame excuse. I still don’t matter to her.
Oh well….

Libra.

Hi Libra and thanks for the update.  It sounds like things went very well on your retreat. 

  All of this is so important and so right on target.  I really like the way you are looking at and talking about this in a way that empowers you rather than looking at it as a chore or something you *have* to do because you are burdened with it. 

There is such beauty and strength in what you wrote here.  Yes, I can see the pain and the grief too.  It is all good and necessary and healing.

This is about her and not you.  I know it still hurts though.  Her loss.  You matter and you have value and are lovable and if she can't see that, it her her failing. 

 

Hi Libra,  :hi:

It's very nice to hear from you!   I'm so glad that you had that time to get away and that you took advantage of it.


This is probably an understatement for sure because for the first time in a long time you had time to yourself to think and to feel. Just to note that you were feeling is a wonderful sign of life within you that won't die.   For the longest time when I started in T, I wasn't able to identify my feelings, so it is an awesome thing that you felt so many things.


Walking through the things you did was not easy, and you were walking through it again when you formed the feelings into words to share with us here. It's another layer, and it's okay that you feel tired. When your body and mind is not used to experiencing the things you are going through, then it will take some extra energy. My T reminds me that the brain is learning new things, and that's why I got tired so often like you are. Here is an extra hug for you. 

 
Wools

Hi Libra,

So glad the retreat was beneficial!   

In my opinion we women (in particular), mothers, wives, girlfriends, friends focus so much on others that we often forget ourselves, or we don't create time for ourselves, and then we get buried under those... ."shoulds".  I know this happens to me.  Throw in that I'm an introvert and that down time becomes even more important.

When our brains and lives are so filled with others, and those "shoulds" we literally don't have time to rest, think, create, read, hike... .all those things that re-charge us, inspire us, get our bodies moving, and our brains thinking we do ourselves a disservice. 

It's doubly hard to take care of ourselves when we've been trained to manage the feelings of others (like children of a BPD parent) or to care take (because it is a boost to yourself esteem - like me) or trying to meet society's definition of the perfect daughter, wife, mother (perfectionism).

So good for you to take the time and make the time for you!  Do it more often... .says the Panda that needs to follow her own advice! It's true though that we need to take care of us and we deserve it... .we're worth it! (I sound like the old Loreal ads).  We deserve our own care and attention just as much as everyone else in our lives... .a hard concept for someone that struggles with self-esteem 

See how taking that time, giving yourself that time, caring about yourself created the space you needed to process things, to let go of things, to rest, and to release all those pent up emotions.

It's hard to let go of the mother you needed and wished for but never had.  I don't have a BPDmom but I do have a controlling and critical mom.  I finally accepted that she was never going to be what I needed her to be and I finally accepted that I was never going to be who she needed me to be.  I finally accepted that I was an good person despite my mother's criticisms and that I didn't need her approval to be me and to be loved.  I am now able to let her criticisms roll off because they say more about her and her issues than mine.  I can be me and I can be different than her idea of who I should be. 

I have people in my life that are my "family" the family that I have chosen, people that enjoy the authentic Panda just as she is and because of who she is.  You have this also with your husband, children, and friends those are the people you should surround yourself with those that support you, not a mother that will never be able to see the perfect Libra that you are.


Too bad for her... .she missed out on spending time with her wonderful daughter... .her loss. 

Panda39