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My heart is heavy as I write this, because in the very short time since I started acknowledging the situation with my uNPD mother, I finally felt like I was on a path to healing. Part of this healing should involve sharing less with her and not allowing her access to anything that she can twist and use against me.

Due to an administrative error (the medical institute that I've been working with sent my blood test kits to her address instead of mine), she now knows that I'm pursuing treatment for a medical issue that I've been dealing with for years.

She doesn't know the details yet but she knows what part of the body/system it has to do with.

I really wanted to keep this issue entirely private from her. But... .

I ended up disclosing to her that this is part of why I don't have the energy to help her right now, which is true. I just started a medication that requires rigorous monitoring, and will for the next month or two. The bigger issue is, of course, the ongoing emotional and psychological abuse that she continues to engage in, as recently as the long, unsolicited text she sent this evening about her surgery prep. They did put her on Xanax so there's a silver lining.

I highly doubt she has any empathy for me... .in fact, I know she doesn't. Of course, her medical issue is much more serious and in her mind she'll just say that everyone who's helping her has serious medical issues of some sort, and *they're* helping. When I saw her last, she proudly told me about a friend of hers who went out of her way to drop off some kind of prayer book to her when that friend was clearly not feeling well... .the very same friend was in the hospital days later with kidney failure.

Here's the kind of commentary I'm expecting to get when I see her next:
- Snide comments about whether or not I should do or eat certain things because of "my health issues"
- Probably some dig along the lines of "if you're so sick, why were you able to do [thing I enjoyed that brought me joy but, yes, did take a lot of energy/anything else I might mention doing]"?
- I expect a lot of "well, if you're so sick... ." comments in general
- Her reminding me how much worse her condition is and how much sicker she is than anyone else.
- Probably some mention of someone who is helping her's own health crisis, and guilt towards me that "they helped me anyway"

She's still guilting me about "family members" being requested to be involved with certain aspects of her surgery prep. Something I am thinking of doing is writing a letter (or having my T write a letter) to the psych team (I might just ask for the contacts of all of her doctors so it's not clear that I'm going directly to psych) explaining that there is a history of abuse in our relationship so they stop putting pressure on her to rely on "family members" (if they are actually doing this). I don't know if I trust their medical team to keep what I reveal to them confidential though.

Is there anyone who has dealt with disclosing their own illness to a NPD/BPD parent? One book I read said that one solution can be to just shrug off any previously disclosed "crisis" or drama when the NPD/BPD next brings it up (so I'll say, "Oh, I'm doing much better" when I see her next month). And does anyone have thoughts on the letter idea?

Hi.  I am sorry you have to deal with a medical issue and I hope it is something the medicine can correct or at least improve for you.  Dealing with physical illness is not easy under any circumstance.

I had to tell my family about a rare medical condition that meant I needed a very complicated surgery back in 2006.  My disease is also genetic and I was the first to have it identified in my family so I had to deal with that aspect too.  Like you, there was a medical error on the part of the hospital who called my old home phone number to confirm an MRI appointment.  They ended up talking with my mother who then called me at work in hysterics.  <sigh>   I had been keeping things quiet until I knew what I was dealing with and could prepare myself to deal with my family. 

For me what worked was telling them directly and giving them print out that explained things in simple terms.  I then said that while i knew they were upset and anxious that i had enough with handling my own feelings about it and could not help them deal with theirs.  I said it kindly as I could but I was firm that I did not want to have to talk about it with them and i did not want to hear their fears and anxiety about it until I was in a better place with it all.  That worked for me because my family, particularly my mother, was very smothering and made everything about her.  My dad was a cryer and when I told them he started to cry and I told him I did not want to see it.  They respected my wishes for the most part but when they stated in with the worry and fear, I quickly said please stop.

So my situation was similar but different.  I just was not in a place where I could take care of others and help them deal with it. 

Is there anyway you can say it is just routine testing you are going through given some symptoms you are having?  A test usually means nothing is definite yet.  Would that work?

In the meantime if she pokes at you about other people still being able to help her I would just say "that is so nice of them" and leave it at that.  Don't take the bait.  If she pushes just keep repeating. 

Say thank you.  I am capable of taking care of this on my own.

Because I can (okay, this reply is a bit lame but it is all I can think of.  Lets see what others can suggest... .we have some brilliant minds here!)

Say "I know that mom and I am so sorry you have to deal with this.  It must be scary for you I know I would be scared"  She probably wants validation and is trying to get it in a toxic way.  Ignore what seems like a battle cry.

Say I am glad they are able to help you.  That must feel really good Mom and be such a relief.

  I think this is a good idea if your condition allows for it. 

About the letter, I would say no.  You can handle this and use it as an opportunity to learn to set boundaries on your own.  There will never be a good time to do it but one of the best times is when you really have no choice... .like now.  We can help you.  The possible replies I wrote are just that, possible.  Lets see what else we can come up with.

We've got ya!

I had a similar issue, and I concure with all of your above points. I totally  understand why you would be worried she will find out. Being ill makes us feel vulnerable, and BPD will have a go. But possibly my account will make you feel easier. I have C-PTSD, dyslexia and other ailments along with a NPD bro and BPD mom. It was my NPD that attacked the weekness, my BPD just made the snidy comments you refere too. BPDs tend to be more reactive, and that's much easier to guard against.  My BPD showed zero interst (and empathy) like yours, and would compete in the way you say your mom is doing, they just want the attention and don’t want you taking it away. So its NPD you want to be wary off.

If your BPD can’t wind  you up or create fear over your illness, she will lose all interest in it. Another tip is my BPD would trying and invalidate it, so dyslexia in her mind is pathetic excuse for illiteracy – even though I have an MBA she still says that when its only the two of us. She won't in public, because she knows others won't agree, so possibly your BPD won't have  go if strangers are in the room. So you just need to pick a stranger up before you visit (I'm joking). She doesn't wind me up with dyslexia anymore, but she must keep doing it because she remembers how well it worked when I was a young child.

So learn to become bullet proof. Avoid JADE, try medium chill (where you don’t ignore them, but you don’t show any emotion and hence don’t react how they want). I know this is frustrating, but have you considered fading away from your mother and going low contact ? If you’re ill, aren’t you better spending more time with people who have empathy  ? My brother inlaw invented an incurable illness, that means he can only eat food specially prepare by himself. My mother would cross question him each time, to find a weekeness in his story, to get him to stay. But he kepts say, they don't know what it is yet... .That was his reason for never coming around for long, he couldn't stay. A BPD will always find something to nag, so if you learn to avoid being triggered by this, that boads well for the next thing she nags you on. I hope this helps. Never forget when we are triggered, things are normally not as bad as we perceive, and my BPD wasn't as bad as I expected. Best of Luck.

Thank you Harri and HappyChappy for your supportive words and for sharing some of your own experiences dealing with PD spectrum individuals and your own illnesses. My medical issue is something that has taken a very long time to isolate and find the right resources for treatment. I'm finally there and really need as much time to focus on the treatment and rest/do a lot of self-care for the next few months while we wait for the treatments to work. The less drama or pity around it the better.

I can relate a bit to how you described your family's reaction to finding out about your condition and surgery, Harri... .it's stressful enough managing a condition on your own but dealing with family members prone to anxiety and/or hysterics puts bitter, nasty icing on the dried up cake. My mom immediately let me know that she "sensed something wasn't right"... .even though she isn't smothering, there has been a pattern of her insisting that she knows me better than anyone else and she loves to think she has the ultimate power and authority to assess me as "not okay" (I'll leave that to my T and to my other medical professionals, thanks)... .actually what she was sensing was me setting up healthy boundaries, thus changing the nature of our relationship. She will write this off as me not handling her illness well and being too mentally unstable to deal with it (which I do not think is true). She is the one who is, understandably, not handling her illness well.

The routine testing approach might work - I can say that they were just testing some levels in my blood and everything looks OK (no matter what the results actually are). Mind you, this is a woman who makes even biochemical processes and statuses that we have little to no control over into an opportunity to show how perfect she is by talking about how all her medical test results and doctor assessments are "excellent" (this can't be 100% true or she wouldn't be having major surgery... .)... .so disclosing that anything might be off would just be offering up that good ol' narcissistic supply on a silver platter.

And thank you for the response suggestion! I will be keeping these in my arsenal so they're ready to go as I need them. There is hope that she will drop it if I don't respond to her picking - I had another medical situation a few years ago that she poked at me about for a while and when I stopped reacting to her, she stopped with the digs.

HappyChappy, it's interesting that you should mention BPD and NPD individuals in the same family... .this has been on my mind a lot lately because I think my aunt (who she is very close to and was constantly on the phone with when we were growing up - maybe less so these days, I'm not sure) might be uBPD. She's been described as "mean" by a number of family members who knew her when she was younger and although she may not be as outwardly cruel as she once was, from what my mom has told me, there is major emeshment and control with her daughters (one in particular) and very poor emotional treatment towards her husband (again, she is described as being "very nasty" to him). My mom has also described some behavior that she's experienced from her sister which I actually told her sounded like gaslighting (it did). But there are two things that come to mind when I consider this. For one, all the information I have about my aunt comes from my mom, who might be trying to smear or distort her out of jealousy (if there is a running unofficial competition between her and my mom, my aunt is currently "winning" as she has a living husband and looks like she's going to be the first, if not only, of the two to have grandkids). And then there's the possibility that my mom displays some BPD-type behavior out of competing with my aunt. Like imagine if my aunt is on the phone bragging about how close she and her daughter are... .my mom feels bruised, so when she gets off the phone she sends one of her emails or texts in an attempt to feel like she's "winning" again.

The list of comments that I wrote is based on things that she has said and done in the past... .and this might explain why some of them might veer into BPD territory. HappyChappy... .(if you feel comfortable sharing) having two very close family members with NPD and BPD, do you see any kind of play off each other? If so, does it factor into your strategy for managing interactions with one or both of them?

In general, I'm trying not to focus so much on trying to diagnose and categorize as much as strategizing interactions and boundary setting (as well as healing on my end)... .but, in this case, I can't help but wonder what the impact might be of having one of your closest relationships with someone who may be on the BPD spectrum, while you may be on the NPD one.

Hi aslowrealization,


I actually like this response short and sweet and avoids JADE as Happy Chappy mentions.

I wanted to share some information from the site on JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain), you want to try and avoid this because as you already know the more you do those things the more things/information your give your mom to latch onto that in turn continues to feed the drama.  You can end up in one of those horrible never ending circular arguments, and nobody wants that! 

Link to more on JADE https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.

So your boundary around the privacy of your health issue was broken due to a clerical error.    I think the key is to continue to have your boundary around this as you did previously.  I visualize your boundary like a brick wall, the clerical error was like removing a brick... .your mom was able to take a peak through the wall, but that doesn't mean you start tearing down the wall.  You just patch the hole and continue t have the boundary.

Yes she will likely come a calling with FOG (Fear, Obligation Guilt) a blazing.  The key here is to have an awareness of that, if you are aware of the FOG and see it for what it is... .emotional blackmail, then it is much easier not to have those knee jerk reactions, so you can better maintain your boundary.

More on FOG https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

You are under no obligation to tell your mom anything you don't wish to share.  When she asks, pushes, manipulates, blackmails etc.  Maintain your boundary... .Mom, I know you're concerned but I don't want to discuss my health issue. I'd like to talk about xyz instead. She tries again and she will, just repeat... .Mom, I know you're concerned but I'm not going to talk about my health issue.  If she continues to push you can always leave.


You know this is going to happen, so don't be surprised when it does.  She is going to do what she is going to do.  She's trying to control, criticizing, and has to be the bigger victim.  See it for what it is... .it's about her, her needs, her feelings and none of this is really about you at all. 

When you visit... .

You can continue with your boundary of keeping your health information private.

If she starts down the path you suspect, try and take a break (ummm have to go to the restroom) it gives you a break and when you return it gives you the opportunity to change the subject.

You do not have to accept her criticism when she gives it, that is her opinion and her opinion only. Try and let it role off. Don't give her the power to upset you. 

She is being invalidating when she makes it about her, instead of you and it sucks because we all want caring and validation but again this is just her trying to fulfill her own needs, she is simply incapable of providing the validation you need, so look for that elsewhere. When she's talking about herself, she's not pressing you for information, so let her talk.

If it all becomes to much you can always cut the visit short and leave (it really is okay to do this for yourself  :hug

Take Care,
Panda39

Good questions. Criminologist have long know that people with PD link together, but with dubious loyalty, they will also compete and fight with each other. My two were like that. Think about the turbulent marriages of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton – considered to be BPD and NPD. Intense, violent, wall to wall drama, was my experience.

Bear in mind that someone with a PD normally won’t  back down, negotiate or compromise. After scorching the earth with a fight that could run a week, they would normally feud and refuse to talk to each other, and I was expected to mediate. A skill that has proven helpful in business.

But they will try and win no matter the consequences. For example Jeffry Archer (famous BPD) went to jail, because he lied about something with no penalty, just to save face, for a BPD winning sometimes is more important that the consequences of losing. This is one of many weekness they have, that you can use in negotiation.

So you can imagine what happens when two people like that get together. You know what they say, you don’t negotiate with terrorist, and  whenever I’ve been negotiating with NPD types (as sometimes happens) you know that if you fight against them, they just escalate the threats, escalate the aggression. Which is why the world is nervous when two PD like heads of state lock horns.

So how did that effect how I dealt with those two: starve them both of information, because they will try and set each other against the rest of the family, but they need info to do that. They will goad each other or work together, but info is needed.

They will get very jealous and competitive, so its important you let them win, and don't play with both at once, it will likely end in an arguments. Be mindful of their allegiance (they have none) but they will gang up if it suits or turn on each other.
I also tended to avoid being in the house because sometime the rage was omnipresent. My BPD in particularly would kick something off it things had been placid for too long. She would spit in your face or kick you - no apparent reason, but she was board and wanted attention. But if she did that to the NPD, it would kick off the mother of all rows, again. That was undoubtedly the hards part of it all, the fact that a day did not go buy without being reminded of the threat of (family) war. So I would purposefully get sent to detention and joined every after school club going, kept out of the house 90% of my childhood from age 8. Old kids in my street would look after me, they (not adults) picked up that my BPD and NPD were not treating me right. But of course when you're young you believe your mum, not a 10 year old kid. . Anyway I hope that helps, because I'm stressing just writing about this. I should point out my BPD is a Queen/Witch type and my bro has Sadistic Personality Disorder, so they are both towards the more aggressive types of the spectrum. They are both quit big physically, now my mum has shrunk with old age, she's stopped hitting people and is doing the waif thing more. . What are they like , bless.  :cursing:

Though it would be nice if  she could support you without making things about herself or shaming you,  this sounds like a good plan... .again.