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Here's what I want to say over the phone to exgf Saturday:

You need to know that I love you, that I'm in love with you, that I'll never love anyone the way I love you, that I want to marry you, that have thought about all the problems that we've had, but I have ideas that I think would make things work, that I would do almost anything to have you be my wife.

Instability: I don't want to ever be abandoned; I want us to both honor a real commitment for life. I want us to be involved with each other and in love the whole time we're married. That's the only part of "instability" that's precluding my total involvement. I think that this issue could be addressed if you were committed to growth through therapy. I would only ask that you try hard.

Of course, I know I've got issues, too, and I take them very seriously. And I promise you I'll do everything I can to stomp out every weak or evil thing inside of me that could hurt you (with help from God and psychology).

You need to stay in therapy so that our family can have the stable foundation it deserves, that it *requires*. I would do the same.

We could get additional help. You said Aaron and his wife had a model relationship. We could ask them to help us in a mentoring sort of way. We could also go to couples counseling.

I don't know whats going to happen or what's supposed to happen now that I've said these things clearly. But I absolutely needed to say them. Imagine if things could have worked out between us but that they didn't, and the only reason they didn't was because I never said these things.

The therapist told me to consider telling her this, she's with another guy now (not married though). I want help, I'm scared of how ill feel if I'm rejected. I'm not gonna read it verbatim nut the first sentence is key. SCARED ILL FEEL SO BAD I CANT HANDLE IT, whatever that means (overwhelmed, spiraling depression, etc). Also anyone who's done anything l like this I might like to hear from. The T suggested I become "assertive" and speak the truth without letting the fear stop me. Right now I've been patiently waiting for their relationship to implode. Its nerve wracking. Maybe this way is better. If I get rejected, does it make moving on easier? Stuck in limbo is not feeling healthy right now. So I need help DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A WAY TO GET "UNSTUCK" (one way or another).

Thanks in advance. I'm gonna ask Saturday, I'm traveling now and don't want to be a sobbing mess on an airplane of strangers. I get home Friday night.

She sort of knows all this already, but I haven't been REALLY clear. This is really scary stuff to me.

hi Euler2718,

some things to consider:

this method may work, it may not, but ive found when i lay it all out there, its kind of a hail mary and has a low success rate. its possible that there may be a better time to speak your truth. theres a lot of baggage between the two of you, and if shes in a relationship right now, im not sure she will see much appeal in making such a big shift, it may sound like a lot of work, with a lot of risk.

its also possible that it may not "work" in that she doesnt act on it immediately, but it may plant a seed that she will think on.

and its possible that yes, if she rejects the effort, that it will be easier to move on, though its likely to hurt a lot. are you prepared for that?

I don't know. I think the therapist wants it to be an assertive act that helps change my behavior. I can time it down a bit. I'm not prepared, how can I be prepared! I don't know how affected I will be by something like this. I don't know myself too well, actually.

Here's my thinking -- this is a personal growth step for you.  That's the main show.  As once removed points out, your chances of getting her to do something are very low.  Much of your words are targeted at getting her to do something.  Getting someone to do something takes the right circumstances and several conversations.  I'd cut out anything having to do with motivating her to action in this next conversation.

The second thing I'd cut out, both in the name of effectiveness with her and in the name of protecting your heart and nerves, is anything that implicitly or explicitly asks her to agree, or anything that offers her the chance to disagree.

When taking a personal growth step, a key thing is to figure out how big of a step to take.  Too small, and you don't move forward.  Too large, and... .ouch!  So, my two cents is... .if you were to simply speak your truth, that you love her deeply, that she is more special than any woman you've ever met, and that you feel that if fate ever brought you together again, you could have a wonderful future, that would be a huge personal step for you.  You own your truth and can feel confident about it.  She can't dispute it with any validity.  If she doesn't react well, just say, completely calmly and with gratitude regardless of her demeanor, that it meant a lot to you to be able to say it.  Wish her the best.  You will have spoken your truth and planted a seed that may grow.

Do you see how speaking your simple truth, without placing any expectations on her or expectations on the future, both limits your exposure and limits the pressure on her?

RC

p.s.  Your objective is to get in and out of this conversation relatively quickly, and with grace.  If it drags on, the chances of you inadvertently getting into territory you'd be best avoiding increases exponentially.

sage advice.

at the end of the day, a lot of that stuff is going to sound like work, and may even sound like judgment.


it feels less obligatory, and hey, confidence is sexy. its an approach i think you could feel good about no matter what happens.

Update. Last night she asked me what kind of friendship we had, and I said I love you. Then she asked me if I was in love with her and I said kinda. Then she said what does that mean and i said it means yes. So I don't know if I'm being properly assertive or not. She said why did I say kinda, and I said it was cause of some kind of fear. Then she said she would be a good ex girlfriend. Hmmph. I still love her, I feel like she's testing my resolve. I may have to consider moving on, though, somehow -- I can't be sufficiently patient ( to feel good, and to make her feel un-pressured) unless I'm fairly detached. Ill try to be more up front with my deep feelings if it comes up again. Its hard to be courageous in this way, though.

This is a skills issue for you.  Moving on won't solve this particular problem.  You'd face this kind of issue in any future relationship.  Here are the components that I'm seeing as important here:

* knowing how we feel
* clearly communicating how we feel in a compassionate and effective but truthful way
* having our actions aligned with our feelings
* not letting our feelings, actions, or expectations get ahead of the maturity of the relationship

Wow, that's a lot when I write it down.  Doing all of that at the same time is healthy, but not easy for those of us who haven't experienced healthy relationship patterns.

The good news is that you've got some elements of success going on here that you can build on.  Let me give you two ideas that come to mind:

* Instead of thinking that you need to detach in order to not be impatient, think of it in the positive -- "I must let my attachment grow slowly, at the right pace for the relationship."

* It's totally OK to love her but not be "in love" yet.  She may feel threatened by that, but you shouldn't feel bad about it.  Telling the truth was much better than hiding it.  The one tweak I'd suggest is figuring out a way to spin it that's optimistic and not threatening.  Instead of saying "kinda," say, "the more time I spend with you, the more I fall in love with you," or, "as we grow together, I feel myself falling more in love with you."  These phrases make "in love" not an all-or-nothing thing, imply a positive direction, but don't overpromise.

Do these two thoughts make sense?

RC

I'm working on it. Knowing my feelings and expressing them are both tremendously difficult. As for being "in love", this is such a loaded phrase. According to her and everyone she discussed it with, it happens in the way hour and you know it or it'll never happen. So she felt like it would never happen. In the meantime I'm feeling ok now that I at least told her as much as I did. Progress, though not so much. I agree it will be troublesome in any future relationships since its sort of plagued me ( my own inability to feel and to express it) for about 25 years.

I haven't heard back from her since I told her I was in love with her. Which makes sense since she's with someone else now. Anyway, trying to pretend I was ok with being just friends was apparently more stressful than just letting go, because I feel sort of ok now. I may try to reach her once more and say "please call me" but I won't be begging. I don't think we should be begging for love (hard not to at times though!)