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The prelude to this post is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329791.0

My week getting more stressful. My oldest son texted yesterday and said he was having a hard time at uni. I called him and he was so upset but I managed to calm him down. I texted partner and he realised i was really upset so he came round, i didn’t expect him too, i was happy to talk on the phone. Unfortunately he was not sympathetic as soon as he walked in, it took him a while to realise moaning at me (because i had called late and he hadn’t planned to come round, even though it was his idea)  wasn’t really getting any effect, so eventually he gave me a hug and let me cry. During my crying though, he did say ‘who would do this for me’. I wasn’t in the right frame of mind to say ‘me’, i just couldn’t believe he said something as i thought, quite selfish, at that particular time. I never said anything until id stopped and then said I appreciated him coming round. It was a bit strange, he was helping me but still had to get a few digs in.  Anyway all was well snd he went off to work today for two weeks and said call or text anytime. He does want to be helpful. Son btw was feeling slightly better but needs a lot of support.

that is pretty insensitive. what did you say, if anything?

How did the rest of your week go?

RC

Hi, once removed, i said nothing. I thought what he said was quite insensitive at that moment as well. I would obviously comfort him if he was upset, if he let me near him that is, when he is upset. Im not sure why he said it at that particular moment.

RC, my week has been quiet. Ive been doing my normal day to day but with no enthusiasm. I went out with a friend last night and we had a good catch up and a laugh, so that was nice. Im going to see my oldest son tomorrow and give him a bit of support.

I just chatted to partner as he is away and it was pleasant although as usual he was sl negative, i will write about that another day but it was ok.

To go back to the sl negative conversation.

My partner said he had some news. That was that he would be working away over xmas. He hates xmas (bad family memories). I said thats a shame. He said well i hate xmas and I wouldn’t be round yours anyway. Well i would have invited him if he was home, of course i would. But he wont be home anyway, so no discussion really. Then he started saying to me at least i will get my wish’. I asked him what he meant. He said that last year i had said that we shouldnt buy xmas presents for each other. The reason i said this is because he wasn’t working and it may have been difficult for him to finance present buying. First of all he agreed and thenhe stomped around like a child and said if I fidnt buy him presents for xmas, who would. So we ended up buying a few.

So this year, he has said we are not buying each other presents. I was going to. The reason he gave, was then he wouldn’t spend a fortune on gifts for me and i wouldnt ‘steal’ his. To clarify, the gifts i bought him last xmas, he said i could keep when he split and left in Feb 2018, so i did not steal them. I was not sure what to say to any of it really, so i said nothing. The stealing bit was a bit weird but the non-xmas presents does not bother me at all. Im not sure if it does him or not. Anybody have any ideas of where to go from there.

It sounds like you'd like to give Christmas presents, is that right?  He has said that he doesn't want to spend a fortune.  One of the changes in strategy that gave me the most relief was to start picking courses of action based only on elements that I could control (not depending on actions or reactions from my pwBPD) and that were in line with my values.  An example of how this could work is for you to say that it means a lot to you to give something to him for Christmas, so you're going to shop for something under $X, picking a number you know that he, too, can afford.  If he may have trouble thinking of something, you could also find ways to give him hints.  The particular plan isn't important, it's picking a plan that feels right to you, that you can make happen without relying on him to be rational or particularly cooperative.

Is this helpful?  I'm not sure if I hit the mark with your question... .

RC

A good idea RC. However, i feel if i suggest it, i will be accused of not listening, and to me, it seems like he doesnt want to bother with xmas buying, for whatever reason. He may change his mind. I will get him a few gifts anyway to be on the safe side, but i wont give them to him unless he gives me some, because if i gave him some and he could not return any to me, I know he would be angry and feel guilty. So i will be prepared for what may happen.

I am bothered slightly that he does not want to exchange gifts but it is not a massive thing to me. I personally will get others from my family, it is my partner who will go without, and that makes me feel a bit sad for him, but it is his choice. I love xmas and the main thing is spending it with my family and friends, which i do. He cant this year, which is beyond his control, and im not sure if he is happy about it or not,  but i will do what i need to do for me.

thats smart thinking. you dont want to give ammunition to be used against you, but you dont want to be unprepared in case he changes his mind, either.

Ive had a good few days, my sons are getting sorted and that is good.

Partner came back early today and went directly to the pub and got drunk. I get a call to say he is coming round. It is not worth the argument to say no, so he comes round. I already know what to expect, like rinse and repeat, he does exactly the same every time he gets home. He comes in, abnoxious, moaning about everything, life, people, everyone. Tries to start an argument but i say nothing and walk away at least once to bite my tongue and ask for strength.His short term memory is really bad when drunk, so his normal BPD distorted conversation is completely way off the scale distorted, so again not worth arguing. So we have a few laughs, momentary, he continues to whinge constantly and then he finally goes to bed, early, and i get some peace.  We sleep and then he completely forgets in the morning what an abnoxious person he was the night before.

This is the boring side of him, to me. Not a nice welcome home really, just boring, because i know what to expect and his drinking stops normal conversation. I know it is not all the time but i feel detached from him a bit when he is drunk.

And today he is better, his nicer self. And yes he forgot everything about last night as i thought he would. I have learnt at least not to get too bothered by those drunken days, however if there were more drunk days than nicer self days, then i would be more bothered. 

thats understandable.

do you know how he feels about the drinking, whether he wants to make any sort of change? has it been going on as long as youve been together?

Hi,  its been going on way, way before he met me, 30yrs at least. To be fair, he drinks less than he used to, but it is regular and a bit of a habit, i think,, and when he is anxious or upset, it is worse.  He likes drinking, thats what he says. I can cope with the drinking, its just the drunkeness, when hes had a few, that bugs me, and that gets more regular when he is stressed.  As i said it is not all the time, unless he is stressed, and then its every day, till he makes himself ill. 

One of the things my therapist worked to convince me of, and that I slowly realized and followed up on, is that we all need a diverse support network.  At least five solid sources of support.I don't know enough to know if your partner is an alcoholic, but that's not a requirement.  His drinking is problematic in your life, and Al-anon could add to your support system.   Basically, imagine a roomful of warm, welcoming people with plenty of experience dealing with difficult things.  Have you ever considered going to an Al-anon meeting? 

RC

Hi Radcliff, thanks for the advice. Im not sure he is an alcoholic as he can stop drinking when he needs to for work, driving etc, he just doesn’t know when to stop when hes started, which is some level of alcoholic.

Anyway, yesterday he was in a good mood until he got too drunk and got rude again. Today, well this morning, he was in a good mood, we met up this afternoon, he was a little merry, so was a little rude, i ignored it. I went home for some food, he said he would come round later. He came back very drunk and fell asleep on the sofa. Boring, boring, boring but i got on with other things, but i was bothered by it. He woke up , said he was going to bed and all i said was ‘well youve been asleep all night anyway’ which he apologised for. Then for some reason which he could not explain, he wanted an apology from me, for me being disrespectful to him. What the hell! He could not explain how i was being disrespectful and i sure as hell could not see how i had been disrespectful, my only spoken comments to him from him walking through the door were, hi, did you have a good night and well youve been asleep all night anyway. The only comment he could possibly have seen disrespectful was tthe last one, but really!  Anyway what he said afterwards was that i was arrogant, self-involved, disrespectful, viscious, always think im right and that i would die lonely and alone. I know tgat was projection because i know that was a self portrait of himself and is definitely not me, even though they do make you think ‘is it me’, but this time I couldn’t ignore it. So i said well as im such a horrible person maybe its best if i am on my own. He never said anything and at this point in time, id prefer to be on my own.

If you told that story at an Al-anon meeting, you'd fit right in.  Your anger and frustration with the situation is understandable.  Do you think he senses your anger and frustration?

RC

Yes he probably does, but its easier to hurl abuse at me than look at or change himself. Tbh, at this moment i dont care what he does, im not gonna put up with the drunken abuse anymore.

Hi, im not sure what is going to happen in my relationship with my BPD partner anymore. We neither have made contact today. I have never felt a victim, i really am self aware of who i am, so being a victim of his accusations etc, does not happen. I know he wants it to, because of what he has said before, but i never feel a victim. However, i am ALWAYS the  rescuer of our relationship. So it is time for a change, because i am fed up of going round in circles. I have no idea what to do, but i will not be the rescuer, i have no idea what will happen, all i know is i dont want my life to keep going round in circles anymore. Am i on the right group, as not sure what he is thinking, and i only want the nice part of him, not the drunk abnoxious part. What to do? Needing guidance please.

I have just realised its his normal 6 mth cycle, cycle started 20/05/18 and i know that cuz its my bday. This is his notmal cyvle.

Hi, i had a calm day and met up with a friend this evening for a catch up. Got home and partner called. He said hed been trying to get hold of me. He wanted to come round. He had been drinking but he wasnt as bad as the other night.

So he came round and was quite chatty. He said that i made him feel unimportant as i didnt let him help me, as that what makes him feel important by helping others, rather than himself, because he does not feel important to himself. I dont make him feel unimportant  intentionally but i did acknowledge his feeling. I think his lack of self importance to himself is a BPD thing, I think, and im not sure if that improves or not.

I do think he needs to feel important to himself, i know i need yo let him help me, but we have been there before. He is asked for help, doesnt give it, i get on with what i asked him help for, he then feels unimportant and goes into selfish mode, so i feel that he is thinking himself more important. Something to work on but not sure how. Also, i do need boundaries with his drinking, because its stops the relationship going forward, and he drinks, as he said because hes not important to himself, ie , so if the drink kills him, then it doesnt matter. Not sure if this opinion of himself will ever change either, however i behave yowards him.

Thanks for sharing those updates with us.  I'm sorry you didn't get a more timely response!  It's been a few days.  How are you doing?

RC

Hi, yes everything ok. Partner went away to work and he was ok as well. Im just getting ready for xmas and going out for xmas meals with friends and colleagues, so its a good time.

Just spoke to partner about xmas again, he was just clarifying that we werent buying xmas presents for each other, because he has bought me nothing and didnt want to get into trouble ( his words) for not buying me anything.He was clarifying we werent exchanging cards , and i wasnt to mention xmas or wish him a happy xmas at all. I asked why him why he felt like this about xmas and he said because he hates xmas and he wouldnt be getting any xmas presents anyway! For gods sake, you cant win with him.

Anyway, ive bought him a few gifts but i will not give them as gifts, i will just make them available. Im not really sure why he is being like this apart from his being distant from me. I doubt very much if he has heard from his family, they arent close and i know he hates me being close to mine and that we all get together at xmas. He is always invited to spend it with me, my boys and family, and i always leave it up to him what he does. I give him no grief either way. I do think though if it was just me and not my family, he would be more enthusiastic, but its not.
We will enjoy new year together doing something.

Xmas eve. Partner came back from work today and i had said on Sunday when i spoke to him that i would meet him just for a while. He was trying to think of excuses for me not to come, ie. he wouldnt have a beer xmas eve, ( i was going to have one), it was going to be expensive if i got a taxi, etc. Anyway, he called this afternoon to say he was back, so i said id be there soon. When i arrived, his friend was there as well, so this explains the unenthusiastic attempts to make me not come. I dont mind his friend. Unfortunately, i was only there 2 hours, if that, and he was his normal BPD self to me, rude, trying to pick fights, trying to put me down, but absolutely fine with his friends. Even his friends said which side of the bed did he get out of this morning. I didnt bite, was just quiet, then i left. I only went to welcome him home, never mentioned xmas as instructed, and i felt like why did I bother. To top it all, remember that he said that we were not buying presents for each other, well he was telling everyone in the pub, that it was my idea. When i replied that it was his idea, he said that, that was not what he meant. When i asked him what he meant, he gave some confused twisted BPD logic, that made no sense at all, and he was completely untrue.

Anyway, im leaving him to it over xmas, he can either join me or not. Now off to celebrate with my gorgeous boys. Merry xmas.

So he said he wouldn't have a beer that night, yet you met him in a pub?  Was he drinking?

RC

Hi Radcliff. To clarify, he was trying to say that he wouldnt have a beer xmas eve if he was driving, he wasnt driving, i was. He was just trying to point out that there may be more police around. I know him and he was just trying to put me off because he had obviously arranged to meet his friend, which he never mentioned, and possibly did not want me around. If he had said he was meeting his friend i would have left him to it. The emotional punchbag rubbish i received from him just added more clarification that i wasnt welcome, so i left early. Or maybe ive got it wrong.

Anyway havent heard from him and my response to his emotional punchbag stuff is to leave him be and get on with my xmas.

Radcliff, he has just been away for two weeks, without any access to alcohol, due to the nature of his work. He is going to drink when he gets home, i understand that, he loves to drink to unwind from his work and catch up from what alcohol he has missed. He obviously has issues about xmas, but i havent put any pressure on him, i dont expect anything, ive left things tor him to decide what he wants to do, and i still get treated like an emotional punchbag. I get it but sometimes, sometimes, i just get fed up of it and cant be bothered to be strong, just for a little while. Not sure if im making sense.

I had a lovely relaxed xmas day with my boys. Partner came round later as we had arranged. I had left him some xmas dinner but as usual it wasnt up to his standards, and he whinged about it, however he ate it, so it couldnt have been that bad. I ignored his drama. Anyway, it was a pleasant day.

Today, i am going round to my familys. He has been invited, even for just a short while, but he will stay on his own at mine, as its warm. He whinges when i dont include him and moans  that he will be on his own, then he whinges when i do include and ask him anywhere because he doesnt want to be involved with xmassy things. The cant win in either situation. He is being particularly difficult, confusing, contradictory, drama queenish, projectionary, selfish,  typical BPD this time of year and i think it is the time of year.  We have come to the decision that he will just come round to mine, and feed the kittens, which is great and stay there. But he is doing it for them, not for me. I appreciate it anyway and told him so. Through all his drama, apparently i am the selfish one and doing what i want to. Im just getting on with my life that he doesnt want to participate in at the moment and its not as if i havent tried or asked him to participate, he just doesnt seem to want to, apart from taking advantage of my warm house (his boiler is broken) and my food, but i dont begrudge him that, he is welcome. He just doesnt want much company at the present time, apart from the people in the pub, and he moans about them. He is a real bah humbug. Gonna enjoy my day anyway.

That's nice to hear that you had a great Christmas with your boys.  Going ahead with our plans is a good way to make sure we're enjoying the rest of our lives. 

When you are going to go do something you don't think he'll want to do, do you give him a choice anyway, so he can own the decision?  Have you ever tried using the S.E.T. (Support, Empathy, Truth) (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0) tool to discuss a situation where he's not happy either way? 

RC

Hi, yes i had a lovely xmas with my family. Hope you did too. I always give him the choice to join in or not, and he can choose to change his mind and join in or not as well. However, if i ask him what should we do together, he wont come up with any suggestion and asks me what i want to do. I will come up with a suggestion and he will usually say no, because thats not what he would want to do and thats fine, but he wont hsve any suggestions of his own and that usually leads him to say i do what i want to anyway, even though i have givrn him a chance to suggest something. Usually his choice involves the pub and that is not my choice most of the time but i go along with it because my suggestions are ditched. If he does do something i have suggested and he does sometimes, he either whinges constantly or doesnt talk very much, until the situation is finished and he can go to the pub. Its best to keep things short in those circumstances.

I havent tried SET yet, i would need practice. I will have a look and see how i can use it. Any other suggestions?

Having another chilled day. Came back from family stayover last night. Partner was at my house, hed been catsitting. He was pleasant, obviously enjoyed animal company. I took him to his usual place, the pub, had a beer, then went home. My sister came round and we had a pleasant afternoon. Spent time with my boys as well.

Partner came back earlier than he said, which was good, hed obviously got bored with drinking. He wasnt too oiled. Anyway, he came in, i mentioned in conversation about a wife of his friend who i was seeing tomorrow, and he was a bit rude about her, so I should say they have fell out, or he has fell out with her husband, he wouldn’t elaborate on it, so i left it, and won’t ever mention her again. Then the three year old came out, his phone wouldn’t work, so it got thrown and got called names. I ignored that and got on with what i was doing. He calmed down eventually and i made him a cheese toastie, the only thing i can cook well according to him. Im not great but im not as bad as he makes out.

During further chatting, he said that if i supported him, he eould support me and buy me things that i wanted. I dont need supporting and i can buy my own things. I didnt say this to him I said thanks and asked him how he needed supporting. He never answered as usual, i have asked him this many times over the last five years and i never get any answer or ‘if you dont know then im not going to tell you.’ That is not helpful, and im not psychic. I do think this his 3 year old talking though, am i correct?

The evening was pleasant, we watched a film and he played with the cats, i have noticed they calm him down. He went to bed earlier and gave me a kiss on the mouth. This was not a i love you kiss, it was one of those ones, that push you, so that you have to wriggle out of it to breathe. God knows what that was, but it was not normal, it was like a cross between a child eho kisses you and holds  your face so tight and someone that is a stranger and grabs you and plants one on your lips hard when you arent ecpecting it. No, i didnt enjoy it. That is the most ‘intimate’ he has been for weeks and i had to pull away because i couldnt breathe,  but i made light of it. He does seem to be going through a young phase at the moment and just needs me to be there, i think, but i dont know why specifically. Just a thought, maybe it is because i have given attention to the rest of my family more lately because of xmas, instead of him. He wanted it that way though as he didnt want to join in. Im just thinking out loud.

Let us know what you think when you look at SET.  It can be a good way to deliver a truth in a way that's less likely to fuel conflict.  As for other suggestions, the tools mostly boil down to modifying our own behaviors to reduce conflict and frustration for everyone.  We are not going to be able to change our partners.  Have you seen the page on how not to “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE) (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0)?  Do you find yourself doing that from time to time?

RC

Hi, ive had a look at SET, and i can see how it would work, just not my usual way of conversing, so will take a bit of practice.

I try not to JADE, as i can see with him, it gets me nowhere. If i do need to do it, i say it once what i need to, and thats it. He usually then tries to argue or throw it back at me, but i then dont respond. It gives me some sense of giving my opinion. He makes his own mind up then why i dont respond, usually incorrectly, but there is no more response from me. He then just gets on with what he is doing. It is hard, and sometimes, but only sometimes i slip and go full on jade, as i would with non BPD persons, if we were discussing things, but i know that doesnt work with my partner. The problem i have is that if i cant have my say, then i have a tendency not to say anything,  because i think, what is the point. I do believe this annoys him though, because he does goad me to JADE, and when he doesnt get a response, he gets a bit frustrated and louder and tries even harder. I do want my say but saying it properly so he gets it, is gonna take time and practice.

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