Print Page - Is food a trigger for anyone?

I have to vent. My H gets crazy over anything I cook or prepare. My H will not cook, or learn to cook, and if he had his way, I would put everything he eats on a plate for him. If I cook a meal and he wants to eat later, he wants me to put it on a plate, microwave it for him and serve it to him. If I ask him to do it, he acts helpless and asks me how. He's a grown man, great at his job, and knows how to scoop food out, put it on his plate, and microwave it. He just wants me to do it- even if I am busy as I usually am as I also do all the clean up- washing dishes, etc, after the meal.

If I am cooking or eating something, he wants it- even if he isn't hungry. Sometimes he'll eat so much of it, there isn't much for me. He's gotten triggered if I fix something special for the kids, and he isn't around. Once there was a special on steaks and I had extra, fixed one for lunch and he raged because we ate steak and he wasn't home ,even if there was plenty left for dinner when he would be there.

We can thankfully afford food and he doesn't go hungry. If anyone of us blows the food budget, it is him. He doesn't seem to be able to contain himself around food at the store either. Fortunately, he is not overweight, he just is able to eat a lot. Last weekend, and the holiday was particularly aggravating for me a I had cooked a lot of food, and I could tell he was wound up around it and that rattles me.

What is aggravating is that I had bought something as a gift, and he didn't ask me before he opened it to check it out. Didn't eat it, just opened it and now I can't use it as a gift. I know he's not going to eat it unless I prepare it and serve it to him ,as it isn't something he can just grab on his own. It wasn't expensive, but now I have to go through the effort to get a new gift.

He also has his own stash of food that is his. I suggested that as he gets angry if someone eats "his" food. We're a family and I don't keep track of what the kids eat and think it is "my" food. He has his own food that nobody gets into.

I know this is a relatively minor issue compared to some big ones. Certainly not a deal breaker but it is crazy making around the holidays. I also don't mind being the main cook in the family. I like my cooking, but I wish he were emotionally capable of fixing something for himself. It's an emotional thing and when he is left to do this, he feels unloved and if I am mistreating him. I often hear " you don't cook for me" if I don't cook which isn't true as I do cook a lot.

Yes, we have food issues here too, though not as extreme as what you're dealing with, Notwendy.

We have a very different relationship to food. I tend to be much more active than him and I eat whenever I'm hungry, not according to the clock. He is sedentary, needs to eat three meals regularly and they must be on a regular timetable.

His patterns made sense when he was working. But he rigidly held onto them even when he took an early retirement. If he doesn't get lunch close to 12, he starts getting irritable. And this is still true even when he sleeps late after drinking a lot and eats breakfast! Fortunately he makes his own breakfasts and lunches, except when we have a special weekend breakfast together.

I'm very boring about what I eat for breakfast. Usually cereal and milk or oatmeal in the winter. In the summer, it's often yogurt and fruit from the orchard. And for lunch, I find leftovers are perfect. If we don't have any leftovers, lunch for me might be a rice cracker with almond butter.

We used to have lot of arguments about food. When he worked, I often made dinner or we'd go out. We still go out fairly regularly. But the pattern that began to happen after he retired was that he'd spend all day in his studio, reading or watching TV. I'd be outside working on the property and I'd come in, dirty and tired, with the idea of grabbing a snack about 4:30, with my next task feeding the horses, goats and sheep.

He'd look at me and ask, "What are we doing tonight?" That was code for "What are you making for dinner?" My internal dialog would be, "How the f* do I know? I haven't thought about it yet and I still have chores and what keeps you from making dinner?"

I would say, "I'm thinking about it. I'll let you know what ideas I come up with."

The problem was that because I'm more of a vegetarian, my ideas weren't filling enough for him. I'd suggest something like brown rice and veggies from the garden with some cheese, tofu or smoked salmon and he'd say, "I need real food, meaning something with a lot of meat." He wasn't always this rude, but it was enough to make me passively aggressive on some warm evenings and say, "I'm making smoothies."

This was a summation of our interaction at its worst. Previously I had made some rather elaborate meals and I even bought organic meat, which I hadn't eaten for years, just to please him. I realized that I didn't mind eating meat as long as it was without hormones and antibiotics and preferably grass fed. We live in an area where there are a lot of local ranchers, so getting meat like this is easy.

But then, I'd buy steaks at the farmer's market or at the grocery store and he'd not be happy with them. "They're cut unevenly. How can I barbecue them if one side is a half inch thicker?" So I quit doing that, but I told him that he could buy meat himself, but if it wasn't hormone and antibiotic-free, I wasn't eating it, so he could just cook it for himself. But that irritated him. He wouldn't just barbecue for himself, even though I'd be fine just eating a salad.

This was an issue we brought up in couple's therapy and our psychologist suggested that we both just cook for ourselves. Well that didn't work. But recently, we started ordering meals from Sunbasket, a meal delivery service that uses organic ingredients.

We get three meals a week, and they've ranged from fabulous to OK, and only one or two have been marginal. We collaborate on choosing them, then cook them together, which has made things a lot better for me.

I was really resentful for all the time I spent cooking, cleaning and he could barely even bring his plate to the sink after dinner. Now I'm the prep cook, he does the cooking (amazing!), and we collaborate on the cleaning. It's a miracle!

I was really resentful for all the time I spent cooking, cleaning and he could barely even bring his plate to the sink after dinner. Now I'm the prep cook, he does the cooking (amazing!), and we collaborate on the cleaning. It's a miracle!

That would be a shock to see in my house! I've said Cat, if I didn't know better, we are married to the same man! I am also the more diet conscious- lots of veggies. fruit, yogurt. For my H, it's got to have meat. I was making a veggie dish for the kids ( which he won't eat) and he insisted I make one without veggies for him. So I made a cheese dish. No, it had to have meat. He went on and on about it until I made a special one for him too with meat. It's not like that was the only thing at the meal- there was plenty of meat for him without it.

It's not even an argument- there is no taking this on as it seems to be an emotional need. He isn't starving for food. It just gets aggravating, especially during a holiday. Substitute your chores with the animals for my tasks with the kids, and yes, I could be driving carpool, helping with homework, and starting dinner was my job, even on weekends when everyone is home.

We did therapy and it was the MC who told me not to cook so much. I was actually afraid to not cook as it would lead to melt downs and anger outbursts over it. But since she said it, I have done it and he fends for himself sometimes but I can tell he is bothered by it.

I feel like I took care of the kids when they were little, but they have gotten older and are very self sufficient. I still cook family meals as I think it is a good idea to have them, for family unity, but not because they can't or won't do it themselves. With my H it feels different.

You're far too nice, Notwendy. What happens if you get the flu and you're too sick to get out of bed? Would he bring you food?

I know this pattern has gone on for a long time, but if I were in your shoes, I'd change it, fast. I find that if I'm resentful, the relationship will continue to deteriorate, so I need to bring things front and center, knowing that it will likely get ugly. But I need to do that and establish a hard boundary while I'm calm and centered, before I become even more angry.

"If you don't serve yourself food and microwave it, then you don't eat. I'm busy doing other things."

Nowadays I can do this without feeling guilt. Before I was so conditioned to accepting that I was "selfish" but now my internal dialog will remind me to think of him this way: "You're an adult, you can behave like one, and if you don't like it, too bad." Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

Cat, one of the perks of working is that he has to fend for himself when I am there and sometimes it is over dinner time.

He is the chief wage earner. He has always expressed that he would feel resentful if he had to take on the domestic duties. I think his emotional example is his parents. His Mama did it all and anything less than that feels like neglect to him. When he retires he has plenty of hobbies that will keep him busy and out of the house.

It isn't the cooking that bothers me as much as the emotional strings attached to his behavior. I hope that makes sense. Diet wise, I prefer to cook as I make very healthy meals and he would not do that if he cooked.

I am more and more letting him fend for himself but he doesn't like it. Holidays are rough spots though. It is hard to shake the sense of obligation since he does support us. My role model - BPD mom who did nothing in the house is not my goal. I still like to cook, but I not be emotionally caretaking. My mother is extreme in one direction, and his is extreme in the other. Somewhere in between would be OK.

Lol, I have learned to take my portion first and either eat it first or save it in the fridge for later. If he walks in the kitchen when I am cooking though, I feel I have to protect my portion.

Maybe it's like alcohol to your H. My H doesn't drink too much, but he seems to lose control around food. Lucky for him he has a good metabolism.

I think what feels triggering is anything that is like emotional caretaking. I feel I have done so much of that with him and BPD mom, I'm sensitive to it.

I do think therapy would help but he has no interest in it. He did do MC with me when he feared his marriage was really in trouble ( it was ). A lot of it was for show ( see I did it) as he really didn't think he needed it. It was a wise MC who focused on me- but indirectly touched on some of his issues. It did make a difference.

Now, thankfully we are not in crisis but the recent holiday brought up the food thing.

IDK about your husband, but I've got an idea why my husband was previously "allergic" to cooking and household tasks.

Similar to your husband, Notwendy, he had a mother who did everything! And he also had a very arrogant, nasty, but brilliant, NPD father. My husband asked his mother to teach him how to cook when he was younger, or so he said, but that was not approved of--probably mostly because his dad vetoed it.

Because my husband was reportedly very sensitive as a young boy, really liked classical music and appreciated art, I believe his father was afraid he was going to "turn gay". As a matter of fact, that was the stated reason, when he and his parents lived in England, that his father prevented him from singing in a boy's chorus.

Though his dad wasn't a "manly man" he was very intellectual and cold. I think he appreciated the arts from a perspective that it was appropriate for a wealthy man to do so, but his son was overwhelmed by emotion, appreciating art forms, visual, dance and music. It just would not have been tolerated by this unpleasant and highly critical man, should his son have been gay, so anything that was considered "feminine" was not approved of. Therefore learning to cook was a definite "NO!"

Cat- that is interesting as my H also rejects being asked to do anything he considers to be woman's work and probably looks to his mother as an example of what that is. So not only was cooking off limits - so is doing dishes, changing diapers ( having anything to do with the care of a young child, house cleaning, sewing - you get the picture). We had huge issues with this in the beginning as we both were working full time and he still had the divisions. Having children sealed the deal on this end as I became a full time mom. I wanted to take care of the kids- and I also preferred that he didn't as he didn't have the temperament for it- and I wanted to protect him. The issues in our marriage came out full force when the babies were little and I was not in a good position to leave and didn't want to break the family up. We have since been able to work on things enough that we aren't in that situation.

I know he is a straight man, but I've always wondered if the no woman's work was somehow tied into his identity as a man. His Dad was distant, critical and super manly. He would also be quick to cut down anything my H might do that seemed "soft hearted" or weak according to his father.

My H seems to not be able to access any real tender feelings. I suspect Dad barked them down now right away. I don't know if his father was NPD or not, but I suspect his son, my H, had to do what his father thought were man things. There is no way he would have had his mother teach him to cook in front of Dad. I don't think he even wanted to learn and to this day, has a big aversion to it. He will use the grill, but that's a man thing. I also know one reason for my MIL's caretaking behavior is that my FIL was prone to raging. Few people saw it though as MIL catered to him constantly. My H doesn't seem aware of his parents issues because they were well controlled, not like in my FOO with mom raging.

I have a hard time comprehending this. I know I am a female and nothing I do will change my identity as one. I can grill, take out the trash, play sports- I am still a female and never questioned that.

I think he needs me to act like his mom so he can feel manly like his Dad. The problem is, I love being a mom to my kids, but I don't want to act like I am my husband's mom. I think that my strong emotional caretaking skills were an attraction to my H, but it doesn't feel right to me now to emotionally caretake an adult.

His mother was very stoic and food is love in his family. It's hard for me to relate to as it wasn't in mine.

I think you are right on with - he feels loved if he is served and rejected if he is not.

Yet, somehow it doesn't bring out loving feelings in me. When the kids were little, I'd be fixing their plates and trying to get them to settle for dinner. My H would just sit there like the little kids waiting for me to fix his plate and serve him too. Then as soon as he got his food he would dig in and eat, while I fed the kids. He didn't even wait for me or seem to notice.

I got into the habit of eating first, while I was cooking so I wouldn't be hungry while helping the little kids with their dinner. H just sat and ate, seemingly oblivious to the other activity in the kitchen.

I can understand enjoying the love/food but the rejection part was hard to understand. Yes, he would rage if I was busy with the kids. It had nothing to do with how I felt about him. When the MC told me to stop cooking and let him rage I was terrified. He has gotten better with this.

I'll throw in my $.02 here because cooking and food is an issue in our house too, though not in the same way. My uBPDw has major issues with time management and always "needs help" getting things accomplished. Over the years it has turned into me doing 90% of the cooking and grocery shopping.

Years ago I took it on because she would never get around to it and be too busy with other things to make dinner. I like to get home from work, eat, then get on with the evening so I got tired of waiting on her. It evolved into her getting mad if dinner wasn't made when she got home from work, or she gets mad if she gets home with the kids at 7:00 and I don't have another meal made for them after I've already eaten. To add to that, I always make the wrong thing. Not enough vegetables for the kids, or the wrong kind of vegetable, and she has suddenly become a vegetarian out of convenience and claims that she only eats salads for health reasons. However, she also loves to bake pastry goods for other people and eat a lot of those.

For reference, I'm a hunter and like to eat wild game. She used to enjoy it with me, now hunting is bad and she tells the kids that dad is bad for eating animals (never mind that she eats chicken and fish still).

I'm not sure what to do with it all, the kids like what I make and I'll usually make dinner for them so they don't have to deal with her being mad about having to cook. There is no way to make her happy though. Usually I just make whatever meat I'm cooking (and I do make chicken and fish), and tell her she can add that to a salad or however she would like to have it. Usually she'll sit there eating dry spinach leaves and act like she's being neglected. Lately, I've realized it's okay for me to be busy too (which I am), so sometimes I'll tell her I didn't have time to make dinner twice and hopefully she can get the kids some food while I run errands.

Grocery shopping - I go every weekend, because she is "too busy". If she does go, she usually gets about half of what I wrote down, even the staples we use every week. And then acts like she should get an award for doing the grocery shopping. Then I get questioned about why I'm going when she just went. "Ummm... .you didn't get eggs, bananas, yogurt... .you know, the things we use on a daily basis".

Your situation sounds to me like what the others posted above, he feels like he is cared for if you are giving food to him. Like I said, my situation is a little different. To me it feels somewhat the same in that she is trying to show I'm not caring for her, but how on earth can I show I care if it's a moving target?

My heart goes out to all the dads who are main wage earners and who have taken on a large share of domestic duties as well. That was my Dad and thank goodness for him or we'd have no consistency growing up. I recognize that my situations is not as difficult and that it may seem petty to be discussing cooking. I'm actually more interested in the reasons for the food trigger and to try to understand it better. The issue was not that I was the main one to take on home making tasks but that the times I asked for help on occasion brought such an intense reaction ( raging, refusal, silent treatment). I did not ever want to be in the position my parents were where BPD mom didn't work and didn't do much at home. I would feel bad if my H were cooking dinner most nights and I wasn't helping.

I guess the constant here is that, your wife doesn't feel bad. I think it comes down to reciprocity. I don't want someone to be my cook, just my partner if that makes any sense. I think that is what you wished for your wife as well.

How on earth can I show I care if it's a moving target? I think this is a main issue. It isn't a moving target but a deep sense of feeling unloved or unappreciated in the person themselves and they perceive evidence of that in others - but the issue is not with what other people do but in them. No amount of dinner cooking for your wife will solve this because it isn't in what you do but what she feels. Not doing something then becomes evidence of this inner feeling.

This doesn't mean you don't do it. I cook too. You need to eat and the kids need a routine. I have to eat, the kids have to eat and I like my own healthy cooking. I am happy to cook for my family. Perhaps it was the reaction to the times I didn't or the refusal to help when I occasionally asked that puzzled me more. As to cooking your favorite dishes, if you are the cook, then make your meat. She can eat the veggies. I think this is about poor boundaries, expecting the two of you to like the same things, but any two people can like to eat different things without it being a problem.

What I have learned is that the parent that is hands on with the kids, also gets close to the kids. I knew who took care of me when I was younger. Our relationship got rocky as I was older and more likely to challenge BPD mom, but it was Dad who held things together. Your kids know that- and for that, what you are doing is worth it. I commend you.

I don't think it's petty to discuss things like cooking, these are the small things that repeat over and over, escalate, and eventually drive us nuts.

Reading both our posts some more, I think the root cause is the same and is what we both described (you did so more eloquently). The deep feeling of being unloved, unworthy, etc. We keep pouring water into the bottomless bucket in a futile manner.

I want the same as you mention. Just some reciprocity. She doesn't do things so I pick up the slack until I'm overwhelmed and my identity becomes being her rescuer. I would love to have rational conversations about sharing household chores, taking kids to activities, etc, but it always turns into "she does everything" and I have to stop the argument before it escalates.

FYI - I don't expect her to like the same things, it's normal not to. What spun my mind around was the sudden shift to "meat is bad" with the hypocrisy that came with it. In my situation, she does a lot to make me look evil to the kids (doesn't work thankfully) and her parents so I think that's what causes that behavior . If she doesn't want to eat the meat I've cooked that's fine, there are veggies and potatoes she can have. It's felt like a big game though, I've chased what she wants for dinner - made salads for us and then find out she's not hungry, made chicken and she says she needs more iron so she really wanted elk. Done doing that! She's perfectly capable of assembling a salad and putting dressing on it, but chooses the dry spinach leaves as some sort of victim performance.

Boundaries - I'm working on this, and that is why I've intentionally let her (forced her to) cook some meals for her and the kids. Just simple things like "hey hon, I had a big lunch and might just make myself a sandwich later so can you take care of dinner for you guys tonight?" Picking my battles on this to not impact the kids. Another boundary is I told her the other day I am going to cook more of my game meat and if they don't want it they may need to make themselves something else. I'll cook enough for everyone but they don't need to eat it. I think having boundaries means it's okay to draw the line and ask that they be willing to take care of themselves at times, and it's what I'm trying to do. My uBPDw has responded to this, and a lot of times she goes ahead and makes dinner.

The executive function thing is interesting, but I don't think it applies in my case. My uBPDw has a stellar reputation as a cook and as a very organized person in general. She is a great baker, and constantly has cookies, pies, cakes made for co-workers, her family and the neighbors. When she goes grocery shopping she somehow seems to be able to get everything she needs for the week.

Hi Notwendy (and others),

As ever there is a thread that is more interesting than adding to mine My probably-ASD H has always had difficulty acting in grown-up ways around food and meals. He also wants "whatever I have" and gets cross if he sees me eating something (like leftover meat) that he could have eaten. The annoying thing about this is if I leave the food for him, he forgets to eat it, and if I remind him about it, he gets angry and says I am pestering him to eat it. I have to just make sure I eat it when he's out of the house or can't see.

He also waits to be fed and then points out any issue there is with the meal (too small/large a portion, not as expected, some fault in the cooking). The portions, oh my goodness. It used to be that he got cross if he didn't have a visibly larger portion than me (stated as "because I'm bigger than you", or later on in the relationship, "because you're too fat"). When he decided to diet a few years ago, the rule changed to be that his portion had to be the same size as mine. I substitute other things in for carbs now so this confuses him sufficiently that he doesn't notice that any more. My D11's portion has to be visibly smaller than both of ours ("because she's smaller than us", and "because she's too fat"). A few months back we had battered fish and chips, and I mistakenly gave D11 the largest of the fish. This caused a meltdown (ASD-appropriate word for a rage) so I told D11 to give him some of her fish, she refused as it's her favorite food in the world, and he only just about consented to eat the meal (I can't remember what I did or said in the end, it was probably hunger that swung it!).

My H started baking bread as a hobby (right after I went low-carb/Paleo!) and this has improved his feeling of competence/independence in the kitchen. It used to be if he did occasionally make anything I had to lay out all the ingredients and instructions for him. With baking he takes an interest, chooses and follows recipes, is proud of the end product, and has the odd disaster which I think makes him more empathetic towards my kitchen fails. If I ask him to bake a particular sort of bread product at a particular time, though, that's suddenly a huge demand and chore. Like when you ask my DD to do something for homework that she would happily do for fun.

I can see that this can be to do with tying up food and love, and in this case I think it also feels like controlling or even dominance behaviors. That's how it feels when he requires the rights to the biggest and best bits of all the food - real caveman stuff! I only really got out from under this when I changed my diet and it was different from his, so it was hard to compare our plates. He doesn't like this either actually, and my "weird" breakfasts were a particular source of complaints. Solution: now I skip breakfast during the week, which works better with the morning schedule anyway, and is Paleo But it's not healthy when you feel like you have to hide your food and eating from your partner. Fortunately although he complains about the "huge amount of food in the house", he doesn't actually take the initiative to go through it for himself like yours does, so I can squirrel things away if I need to.

BetterLanes x

I have to say... .as a random internet stranger reading down through his thread... .I am quite shocked,

Never in my life... .have I ever witnessed this type of behavior in an adult, either father / mother, or else Grandmother, or Grandfather figures, even Aunts and Uncles... .maybe I was too young to notice, .maybe I was "sheltered"... .no, not even in my entire first marriage... .even up to now.

The very thought of the "father figure" eating first, first pick, and then complaints to the cook, or acting out... .nope... .never seen it… no not ever during the time I was growing up back in Suwannee County... .from the male fatherly figures in my ‘foo' as well the local community there... .

I remember helping Granny (all of us grandkids) prepare and to cook... .I remember us ALL sitting down together, saying the prayer, and then we all ate, and we were glad to get what we got... .and if we were to "complain"... .you were likely to get into trouble with Granny and Grampa... .they were raised during the depression you see, so the very idea of being picky, or "not grateful' was frowned upon.

And when dinner was over, we were all expected to help clean up, Granny did not have a "dishwasher", as we were the dishwashers... .she taught us all how to cook, and clean, and prepare food in the kitchen... .don't get me wrong, but it was all about love in Granny’s kitchen, and waste was __not_ tolerated, if you did not clean your plate, then it might still be there for the next meal... .matter of fact, there was always cut up veggies, left over bacon, maybe ham, and all the biscuits that were left over, on the table all day... .and that was always a great after school snack, .there was no "waste" in that kitchen, anything left over was collected for Mr. Federico's hogs... .he was one of the "hands" out in Grampa's sawmill... .

So years later on, when I was a Dad, .I always sat down last, filled my plate last, ate last, .and I ensured my wife (at the time) had help, with the kids, the kitchen, and the cleanup... .

I was never picky, and I always said "thank you"... .I never took the last of anything, last piece of bread, last cup of milk etc;... .that was for the kids, and the wife,

This is the way I was brought up.

So even today... .I am quite capable of "fending for myself", and making sure the kitchen is stocked, I remember going grocery shopping and cooking with my first wife, and then as a single dad, of course it was all on me... .even now in my second marriage... .I am the primary "shopper"... .she cooks (cooked) occasionally, and I always say (said) thank you, and I did the cleanup... .usually when I cooked, she (uBPDw#2) would very rarely eat what I would make... .resulting in lots of "takeout"... .

To read about the father / husband figure being picky, not fetching his own plate… and being "first" in line before the youngins (hmmm)... .I just don't understand that... .

All very interesting!

Red5

Quote from: Red5 on November 27, 2018, 01:27:29 PM

To read about the father / husband figure being picky, not fetching his own plate … and being "first" in line before the youngins (hmmm) ... .I just don't understand that ... .

My dad always helped out in the kitchen, apparently in an era when men often didn't participate in "women's work" so I grew up expecting that to be the norm. He not only cooked, he washed floors, vacuumed, and did all the yard work and never made an issue about anything. My mom also did housework, but her cooking skills were marginal at best. But being a pwBPD, she had to let everyone know how she "worked her fingers to the bone."

In my first marriage, I did most of the cooking, but my former husband often cooked too. He, like many pwNPD, assumed he was an excellent chef, even without any real experience, but some of his cooking was actually good. My current husband has never once vacuumed the house or done any cleaning in our shared living spaces. I guess he presumes it's "my space" because he has his own detached studio that he cleans maybe every few months, if that. There's typically dust bunnies everywhere but since it's his space, it's his problem, not mine. However he whines about how hard cleaning is when he deigns to actually do it.

Had I "allowed" it at the beginning of the relationship, he would have developed similar habits of expecting to sit at the table, be served and have his dishes cleared, all while he did more "important, manly things like read The New Yorker" while I cleaned up. But of course, that entitled behavior didn't sit well with me, so I nipped it in the bud.

Nowadays he's actually learned to be quite helpful and participates in cooking the meals we order on our meal delivery service. Glory Be!

Sorry others are dealing with this but it is good to know I'm not the only one.

I brought up the food situation making me tense last night and the reply was " you are doing this to yourself, I'm not doing anything".

Makes me feel I am either out of my mind, or there is zero awareness of his own behavior. ( I think the latter). There doesn't seem to be any way to have a discussion over something that doesn't exist as far as he is concerned. The best response I know of is boundaries- just how much I am willing to do.

Yes, Red, it is quite interesting the role models. Dinner at my house? That was Dad putting us all in the car to take us out to dinner because BPD mom was running around the house screaming and we had to get out of her way. Yep that was my family life growing up.

Dinner at my H's house? Grandma cooks three square meals a day, Grandpa sits and eats. Then he gets up and sits in his easy chair while granny cleans up. The females help, males do not.

So I had no idea what a normal family dinner would be like, and if I brought up the idea of something different, well, the response was it had to be my problem because to my H, his behavior is entirely normal. FIL expected to be served food 3 meals a day on the clock. I don't do that, as everyone is out of the house for lunch and just grabs breakfast.

Better Lanes- I think there is some similarities with BPD and ASD behaviors but the reasons behind them are different. I think for the ASD person it is about routine and control. Also pwASD are sensitive to some food textures. For BPD, I think the behaviors are driven by a poor sense of self and feeling unloved.

Notwendy

It's interesting peeking into the world of others. Is your hubby an acts of service guy? (love language)

I'm wondering if you couldn't use the food thing to butter him up from time to time?

Also... I've got a "dare" for you. Instead of bringing it up to him again and have him said (quite accurately) "I'm doing nothing... "... .I think you should give him the book

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Hen

Let the story talk to him... instead of you.

Then... when he sees kids and other people that have "helped" make the (fill in the blank) and those that don't help... .(do nothing... get nothing)... .he might connect some dots.

Circling back to the butter him up idea. Have you ever tried to cut a deal with him. In exchange for you doing dinner exactly like he likes it... .he will do (blank) exactly how you like it (something that matters to you that isn't happening to your satisfaction right now)

Thoughts?

I'll tell food stories from my FOO and house a bit later... .I like this thread!

FF

I don't think my husband realized how much work it is to cook every night until we started doing that meal delivery service. The amount of work is minimal compared to planning meals, shopping for ingredients, cooking from scratch, etc. Instead, though we get fresh veggies, meat or veggie proteins, also included are a variety of sauces, interesting exotic seasonings and spice blends, and unusual ethnic ingredients that would take a lot of hunting to find locally, if even available. So the actual work of making a meal has been minimized.

Still my husband will huff and puff and complain about how "hard" it is, yet in my mind, they've really dumbed down the process so that anybody can do it and be successful.

I do all the chopping and prep work, and as he's cooking things on the stove, I clean up and put as many of the dishes as possible in the dishwasher. By the time that dinner is ready, there's almost nothing left to clean, other than a pan or two.

Since I had worked in restaurants, I learned how to clean as I worked, which was really irritating to him when we used to try and cook together in the past. It unnerved him that I would clean up when he was nearby, as if I was intruding on his personal space. But if I didn't participate on those few occasions when he would actually try and make dinner, there would be nearly every pot and pan sitting dirty on the counter. It was truly a marvel how someone could make such an enormous mess for such a small amount of cooking.

But having participated with me for several months on this collaborative meal making, he now is learning to put his dirty dishes into the dishwasher, rather than just leaving them on the counter for "later". It was one of those areas when trying to talk about "kitchen strategies" just incited angry replies, but he's learned by watching me instead of listening to what I was saying.

However we've gotten to this point of peaceful cooperation, I'm truly glad. It was a real bone of contention not long ago.

Early in my marriage to uBPD/uNPD H, over 20 years ago, I noticed that some of his rages centred around food.

One time, he left a half of a sandwich in the refrigerator for several days. Thinking he did not want it and not wanting it to go to waste, I ate it. When H went looking for it and learned I ate it, H flew into a rage. The rage was way out of proportion to the incident. Really? Rage over half of a sandwich?

At times I got home from work earlier than him, but there were small chores to do (cat litter boxes, for one), mail and correspondence to sort through, and dinner was not always ready when H walked in the door from work.

H would fly into rages when food was not ready for him when he walked through the door after work. On the times when I would cook meals in time for him to come home, he'd snarl he wanted a cocktail first, and said heating food is what microwaves are for. (Contradictions/double binds are common in BPDs.)

I noticed the rage was correlated to whether or not H had lunch or not, and must have been hungry. He frequently works through lunch (he's a masochistic workaholic) and won't eat when he's on a project. I have tried to give him snacks to keep in his locker, such as crisps or candy nut bars, but he chooses not to eat them. As BPDs are emotionally infants, they can get cranky when they are hungry, I have concluded.

Now when H launches in a rage after work, with threats of divorce and personal insults on me as a wife, I simply reply, "You must have skipped lunch because you're b*tchy. Knock it off. Now." Then H is silent. I fix him a small appetiser to keep him until dinner, such as cheese and crackers.

o

Tonight I made porkloin, bake (microwave) gold potatoes, and seasoned okra/corn/beans (out of the can), with Arizona ice tea to drink... .it was good, and my Son always eats whatever I put in front of him,

As myself and uBPDw are now practically separated but still living under the same roof, I did offer but she declined the chow I fixed up, .there are enough leftovers for lunch tomorrow, for me at work.

I still need to go in and clear it up, as there is not enough to run the dishwasher... .I’ll jist wash the few dishes up in the sink... .

It’s going to get down to freezing here tonight... .so I need to move few plants off the back porch and into the garage... .

I also went to the grocery store after work for a few “sundries”... .

I still need to prepare my Son’s lunch for his day program before I go to sleep tonight... .so the morning is not too stacked, also need to put the coffee on for in the morning,

I have been wanting to put on a pot of beans for a while now... .maybe I’ll do that in the morning, if I soak them tonight I could put them into the crockpot in the morning... .

Need to put some more would in the fireplace... .I still got a few pieces on the back porch... .I’ll need to get some more in from the wood pile after work tomorrow... .

Yeah, beans and cornbread for supper tomorrow maybe,

I like this time of the night, it’s quiet and peaceful... .

When uBPDw and I were dating she claimed to love my cooking, but soon after we married that changed... .and as long as I was not split black she would cook for me and the boy... .but it was... .and still is “sporadic”... .

We do (well we did) order out a lot too... .

Ok, almost time to get ready for bed... .one of the stray cats has claimed my couch : )

I’ll have to “move” her... .the old stray dog and the both the stray cats really love the fireplace... .

Need to go and soak them beans too!

Better get up off my butt and get movnin here!

Red5

These stories are interesting to hear, as always it's so nice to know I'm not the only one dealing with this stuff!

I can add another common thing in our house that centers around dinner, it happened again this evening. uBPDw took the girls to dance, and had our son too. They get home at 6:30, and I usually have dinner made for the kids. They walk in tonight, and say "oh, we already ate". Sometimes they get fast food and don't tell me about it, it happens about 20% of the time.

In the past this would make me very upset, due to lack of communication and lack of respect. I've tried to get uBPDw to communicate with me. I've asked her to let me know if they go out to eat and she never does. I've texted her and asked "will you guys need dinner tonight?" and get no reply. If I get no reply, she'll still get mad if I don't have dinner for them when they arrive.

Tonight I decided to change my tactic. I calmly told uBPDw that I'm just as busy as she is, and my time is too valuable to make a second dinner that won't be eaten by anyone. I'm happy to make dinner, but from now on I'm going to assume they have eaten already unless I hear from her that they need food. I will follow through on it too. Her poor communication has been an ongoing problem, usually her FOO is much more aware of my family's schedule than I am. I can't play the game anymore.

Interesting topic. I can understand how power struggles over food preparation and being served or not served can be a big thing for notwendy and others involved with pwBPD.

My uBPDh struggles with binge-eating and the resulting weight problems as part of his self-destructive behavior, so food is an inescapable issue. We have a long-distance relationship, and in his household he doesn't keep food around, because he would immediately eat it. I don't have that choice, even when he is visiting me, because I have 2 children (S21 and D15). So I must always stock food, and prepare meals several times a day. This drives him crazy. He will get up hours before I do and start eating everything.

I try to help him by stocking less fattening foods that he likes. But he eats those in addition to the others! It's a health issue with him because he often verges on obesity, and has very high cholesterol. So he accuses me (or the relationship) of making his health worse.

In addition, when he visits me he doesn't get his exercise, so his weight goes up because of that too. The only exercise he likes to do is walking for miles and miles in the city where he lives. He doesn't enjoy walking in my suburb at all. I have a health club membership, and he could use the treadmills or other machines there, but that is not to his liking either. When he is in my home, most of the day he sits in an armchair and watches Law & Order reruns (he doesn't have a TV in his home).

We are on the outs, pretty much NC, and haven't seen each other in two months. He did email me his weight chart the other day, and he has been steadily losing weight. I'm glad, but this means that if he were to visit me again, he would gain weight and blame it on the visit.

Rather than the Little Red Hen, the book that I thought of is an old gag book called "Porn for Women" (G-rated) with pictures of good looking men doing dishes, vacuuming, and other tasks. People are critical of it now, calling it "sexist" which it actually is but I can see the appeal. Reading some of your posts- you guys are those men, and I am sorry that your efforts don't seem to be as noticed by your wives. However, I think you are investing in your children and I think that is commendable. They will notice and remember that.

Cat, I am glad you have come to this place with your H. Perhaps that will be a possibility when my H retires. For now, he does work hard and if I am home at meal times, which I usually am, I do cook dinner. I want to feel as if I am contributing. I would say his love language is acts of service for him. The resentment came in not from doing these things as much as feeling they didn't make an impression- not able to fill a bucket with a hole in it. It was the rages when I didn't do something, or when I asked for help on occasion that took away the pleasure in these tasks. I like to cook, but I not cooking to "keep the peace" if that makes sense. I've done some work on my own co-dependency. I feel I did go overboard in people pleasing and so became sensitive to doing that. We are doing much better since I got a better handle on the co-dependent behavior. Yet, I still think I default to that during holidays when everyone is home at one time and not busy with usual routines.

This is interesting as I thought the two most difficult issues in a marriage are sex and money and didn't consider food, but these posts remind me that my BPD mother has food issues- binge eating and also being controlling about food. Food is connected to memories and emotions so I can see how it could become an issue.

Hi Fie,

Thanks for picking that up. My H just about manages not to say those words to my DD's face, although he will tell her that she needs to snack less and exercise more. He will say them to me when she is out of the room, and blame me for her weight. She is overweight, like I was as a child. However there is a family history on both sides of teenage disordered eating, including myself, my mother (probably), and my H's sister, so my H's proposed solution of "She just needs to eat less" is not the approach I want to encourage. She has just started at secondary school and is taking more responsibility and interest in her food (packing her own lunches and doing cookery lessons) so my plan is to encourage her to make increasingly healthy choices.

Hi Red5,

It is pretty shocking, isn't it. You are a gentleman, and the men in your family/culture were raised to be gentlemen. The behavior you describe is the behavior of a gentleman. Sadly that's not universal and in the UK these days it is pretty rare to find a man who was raised that way below the upper social classes. Most can do polite when in company/public, but that aspect of specific consideration for and protection of females has gone missing in the name of equality. I know ours described on here are particularly bad examples, but in the case of my H I think if he had had that attitude modelled to him he might have been able to keep it up to a certain extent.

Hi Notwendy,
I agree it is a routine and control thing, and I was reading about "expectation violation" as a particular problem with pwASD. My H will show some distress if the meal isn't what he thought it would be, or if I have served a different kind of accompaniment to usual (mashed instead of baked potatoes for example). I am also totally with you on this:

Notwendy >> It was the rages when I didn't do something, or when I asked for help on occasion that took away the pleasure in these tasks. I like to cook, but I not cooking to "keep the peace" if that makes sense.

- I love to cook and it is really the nearest thing I have to a hobby, but when the responses are demands, criticism, complaints, and helping only ever on their terms (with complaints throughout as you say Cat Familiar), it is hugely offputting over time. My rule of thumb was that the more effort I would put into cooking a dish, the more likely my H was to have a major complaint about it. Our menus are now very repetitive, I think in the last two years I have tried out one new main course recipe, and I don't make cakes, cookies, etc. for DD and my H except for the holidays. The old saying is "Kissin' wears out, cookin' don't"... .well the cookin' has worn out so I don't know if that saying goes anywhere else afterwards

BetterLanes x

So... ."food issues" in my house are relatively minor compared to stuff in this thread.

I've had to (we all have) make adjustments for D7. Macroni and Cheese are her "go to" along with a peanut butter sandwich with some Nutella ("tella" is how she says it). She is our 7th child and the first one we've had to alter our "food rules" for.

For us... .food is about respecting the person that prepared it. That means trying everything and not wasting food. Cleaning your plate used to be the "rule". Or... the plate got plastic wrap and go to fridge... .thus becoming your next snack. Said another way... .I don't demand people eat a certain amount at a sitting... but you will eat what is prepared now or later (your choice) and express thanks to the cook.

My P has been a big help understanding a "stubborn child" D7. Transitions can be tough for her... .so heads up is really... .really important. "Hey... .we are going to eat dinner in 5 minutes" (this goes well). Just announcing time for dinner with no heads up doesn't work well. She is our "picky eater". P has helped me understand this is not an area to have a power struggle.

I'm an only child and there was plenty of food when I grew up. That means I could almost always count on going to the fridge for another taste of a favorite thing from a few days before.

I still make the mistake of saying outloud "Hey... where is that piece of (fill in the blank)"... to which any other person in the room starts snickering and saying it was in their tummy a few days ago or something like that. We consume a lot of food in our house... .it's rare stuff goes to waste.

I love to cook and cooked in a college cafeteria when I was in high school. My favorite meals were when we had a group of 10 to 20 to cook for (some special meeting) because we would cook and "plate" the meals before servers took them in. I occasionally still do stuff like that when we find a special deal on something. For instance... we picked up some marked down fillet mignon at Sams a couple weeks ago. Then went and bought some brandy so I could do the steaks in a "flaming pan"... .then reduced all the juices and stuff to a very "bold" peppercorn sauce to put on top of the steaks. S10 was my main helper... .her really enjoyed torching off all the stuff in the pan...

https://youtu.be/3tA0Pd5C4TQ

That's what I made and how I made it. And yes... I enforced that we have to have "outrageous french accents" the entire time we were making a steak "a soft as butter... ."

Cost per plate is a big deal in a big family. We often have the older kids plan a meal where everything is new. Even if green beans... perhaps a new way of fixing them. Then we all sit around and act like food critics and figure out which ones are keepers and which ones "we'd rather not do again" and why. We usually find one or two that are keepers.

Everyone gets it that food is a big deal and we try to do our best. S18 has cooked a lot... but it's not his "thing". So... .he was visiting family who then got sick... so he was trying to prepare the meal. He calls Mommy and asks how to make mashed potatoes... which elicited a lot of derision from her. He actually knew the basics of how to do it... .just didn't ask very well. What he was trying to make sure he had right was the amounts of "goodies" that we often add to make them special.

Usually whoever cooks is immune from cleanup, although we (like Cat) practice clean as you go. D13 is horrible at clean as you go. In fact we banned her from solo cooking for a while because kitchen would turn into disaster area... .(I'm being polite here... it was bad... )

I suppose the one area there is some "dysfunction light" is me regularly preparing meals and having them ready the second my wife walks in the door from work. I'm the SAHD now, but in reality have tons of other stuff on my plate as well (MBA work, real estate work, caring for disabilities). So... often the meal is me supervising kids pulling something together, rather than doing it myself. My wife will sometimes grump that I'm being lazy or "sitting around all day"... .but the core issue there really isn't the food and she makes the same comments in other areas of life too. (note... these have died down a lot... since I really don't engage on them. Plus... .my wife is a really good teacher and is getting lots of praise at work for how wells he does things.)

Anyway... .great thread... keep it up.

FF

I suppose this question is for Notwendy and Betterlanes... perhaps to a lesser extent Cat Familiar.

Please understand... this comes from a my staring at these situations in amazement.

Relevant history. Early in our marriage (when things were "normal") I came home and the meal appeared ready on the stove, since I had to run back to the squadron for a night flight... .I grabbed food and started eating. It was a bit crispy... .(some kind of chicken "helper" meal) and a bit "overdone". Yet I consumed it. My wife came in the house as I was finishing and I thanked her for the meal.

She starts hugging and kissing on me... and kinda laughing because she thought she burned it and ruined it.

It's a rare day for an unsolicited complaint to show up about food. We do regularly solicit input on food. "Hey... .I think there was too much of (fill in the blank) flavor in these ... what do you think?"

I guess Notwendy kinda did a boundary when she stopped or reduced cooking... .but I have to wonder what choice they would make if the choice was "eat and be thankful or be hungry and grumpy" (or cook it yourself to your liking).

Another way of saying the complaint store is closed... .or at least you won't be listening or participating in complaints.

I suppose there has been a time or two when we enforced a kid being at the dinner table... quiet... with no food because of some crack or complaint they made. I get it... forcing an adult to do that just doesn't work. But... the mindset could be the same on the preparer side. I don't serve food to ungrateful people. Period. No nuance... .I just don't do it.

Note... .I suppose this shows my same thinking... because as you guys know... my wallet doesn't open for ungrateful (or demanding) people either.

Thoughts?

FF

Great thread guys, highly amusing in parts.

For some preparing food is stressful, it involve co-ordination and as Notwendy pointed out earlier in the thread executive function. Also and I think this is the most critical bit for my wife, it attracts judgement... .is it good, is it bad, is it big enough, is it seasoned well, is it too spicy. I think my W hates cooking for me now, I've never been ignorant enough to not have a view on the food I eat so positive reactions tend to be ignored whilst negative reactions are the end of the world for her.

I freakin' love cooking, it's a culmination of all a persons adult training all rolled into one... .from financial considerations, to planning and shopping, timing, precision, handling weaponry, taste and execution... .when it all lines up boom boom boom it's awesome.

Here's a guess... .Non's are clean cookers and pwBPD are messy cookers. I'm pretty much washed up and wiped down by the time I served... .tidy kitchen, tidy mind.

Enabler

I'm a messy cook

But I do clean as I go along and clean up- as mostly I'm the one who cleans up, so sometimes I do it on my own time.

If we are done with dinner and I want to watch a show, I leave some pots/pans for myself the next day. Otherwise, I would spend most of my time in the kitchen in the evening.

In the early years of my marriage, my H would sometimes say " take a break from dishes tonight and watch the show with me. The "break" would be me not doing the dishes tonight and then doing them tomorrow. Basically, if I didn't do them, they would stay there until I did them. I used to wonder how he thought postponing dishes was a break and tried to explain that but he was convinced it was. Yes, the kids can help but often they had homework, other activities.

I clean up after dinner, load dishwasher, but sometimes, if there are some pots and pans, I rinse them, I decide to do them later but no later than before the next meal. Since I'm my own "boss" when it comes to dishes, I do them on my own schedule.

If I am not home, and he does fix something simple for himself, he leaves the pots or pans for me. However, he supports us and when I have asked for help, tells me I can't help him with his job and so this is fair to him and he would feel resentful otherwise.

After our meal, he will bring his dishes to the sink and clear his stuff off the table. But he will not put them in the dishwasher, or empty it.

FF, it isn't about appreciation or complaining that gets to me. I think it is in part, my own co-dependency and wanting to pull my own weight in the family. I don't have his earning capacity professionally and can't contribute financially like he does. I don't want to be perceived as being like my BPD mom who didn't do much of anything while Dad worked. Since his mom did everything in the home and basically waited on his father, I don't measure up to that, so to him, I don't do as much no matter what I do. He didn't have much to do with the hands on child raising. It was pretty much all my job. He didn't complain about the food, it was the raging if I didn't cook or asked him for help with dishes so I just took it all on to keep the peace.

Notwendy,

I get things are much different now that when "things were bad" in your marriage. Am I correct in assuming that rages are over about food... .or do they still happen from time to time?

I suppose as I examine my reactions to your story... most of my focus in on what the kids are being taught... or not taught.

My kids may very well choose relationships where one or the other does the lions share of the work. That will be a matter of choice not a "I don't know how or I've never done that before"

It sounds like your hubby was raised... .honestly... .without an ability to do kitchen work. Is that what he wants for his children? Is that what you want?

To take the same thinking into other areas. All of my boys understand how to run a farm, use hand tools and all that. I guarantee you that my oldest will live in a Condo... .but it's by choice... .not because he is unable to do things.

Hey... not at all trying to be critical of you... .just trying to think outloud about this subject.

FF

Good question. I also worried about the lessons my kids learned from me. Yes, the rages have stopped but Dad doesn't do much in the kitchen.

My kids, ( male and female) can fend for themselves. They can do laundry, clean, cook, clean up, grocery shop. They also appear to have better boundaries than I have or had growing up.

Being the almost 100% hands on parent had a hidden blessing- they love their father and he is good to them, but the long talks and time spent with them were with me. Fortunately I began working on co-dependency some time ago and stopped being a total doormat. I've also been honest with them about myself- I don't talk about my H, but they do know about my mother, and that I am working on co-dependency. I don't hide that. My H adores the kids, but his father was, IMHO, emotionally stunted and I don't think my H would have been a good primary care giver. He has been a good role model as far as providing for a family and has good values and behavior in that sense.

The kids have minds of their own. I don't think any of them want the roles in their relationships that we have had. In ways, I feel like I was molded into a version of my H's mother just to keep the peace, yet, I also have domestic interests and want to be a hands on parent. I just didn't want it done in the way it was, out of fear of rages, and that pattern has been hard to undo. Also there's the default - I did a lot due to his refusal. Kids need to be fed, dinner needs to be cooked and cleaned up. I would have done most of it anyway but the dynamics between us put a damper on the joy of doing it.

Does my H want anything different for his kids as far as roles in the home? I don't think he even thinks about that. I do think he has contributed a lot of positives to the kids as a father. I don't think he sees our arrangement as anything out of the ordinary, and he doesn't think I do anything out of the ordinary for him.

The kids have seen more than they let on and they don't want the same thing. I've tried very hard to reinforce their boundaries growing up and I hope that their good boundaries lead them to choices they will be happy with.

Quote from: Notwendy on November 28, 2018, 10:48:08 AM

If I am not home, and he does fix something simple for himself, he leaves the pots or pans for me. However, he supports us and when I have asked for help, tells me I can't help him with his job and so this is fair to him and he would feel resentful otherwise.

After our meal, he will bring his dishes to the sink and clear his stuff off the table. But he will not put them in the dishwasher, or empty it.

FF, it isn't about appreciation or complaining that gets to me. I think it is in part, my own co-dependency and wanting to pull my own weight in the family. I don't have his earning capacity professionally and can't contribute financially like he does. I don't want to be perceived as being like my BPD mom who didn't do much of anything while Dad worked. Since his mom did everything in the home and basically waited on his father, I don't measure up to that, so to him, I don't do as much no matter what I do. He didn't have much to do with the hands on child raising. It was pretty much all my job. He didn't complain about the food, it was the raging if I didn't cook or asked him for help with dishes so I just took it all on to keep the peace.

Pretty good strategy, raging to get out of work! Obviously he realizes that a tactic like that is only useful in the home, not in the workplace.

This "I make more money than you do" is a specious argument and a poor excuse for not being a team player.

1. He was unwilling to do his part in parenting, so that left all the work to you
2. You had to quit your job in order to take care of the children, the house, the meal preparation
3. Had you continued with your employment, you might be making more money than he does

IMO, he's had the luxury of "only" working, while you took on the lion's share of responsibilities for your family.

And finally, if you were to document all the time you spend, now working at your part time job, taking care of the kids, your household responsibilities, and all the meal preparation you do, I would suspect that you work nearly double the hours that he does. How is that fair?

It's no wonder that you feel resentful for not having your contributions to the marriage fully appreciated. Anyone would feel the same if they were in your shoes.

Time flies, the kids will be out of the house, and then you two will be empty nesters, and still these ingrained behavioral patterns will be expected by him. I've seen many women seething with resentment when their husbands retire and they are still expected to be the household servant, while their husbands putter around, doing only things that interest them.

The kids are mostly out now Cat. College but close enough to be home sometimes. And the patterns are changing when it is just the two of us. Holidays though bring us all back to the original patterns and that is what got to me this past weekend. You are right on with the resentment.

Yes, you are also right on with your observation of my work in the home, but he doesn't see it that way. He still thinks the fact that he is chief wage earner as his contribution domestically and doesn't see it any other way and that doesn't change. He will say he does consider it, but emotionally I don't think he gets it. Emotionally- normal is his mom waiting on his dad for their whole lives.

I decided long ago it wasn't worth breaking up a family over, and much is good about the marriage. Trying to change this had awful results- rages, silent treatments. Going back to work has done a lot for me mentally. I can manage with boundaries when it is just us, but I tend to revert to old keep the peace patterns over holidays as the kids are here and I realize I walk on eggshells when they are.

We are in for an interesting empty nest time... .

Quote from: Notwendy on November 28, 2018, 11:42:12 AM

I decided long ago it wasn't worth breaking up a family over, and much is good about the marriage. Trying to change this had awful results- rages, silent treatments. Going back to work has done a lot for me mentally. I can manage with boundaries when it is just us, but I tend to revert to old keep the peace patterns over holidays as the kids are here and I realize I walk on eggshells when they are.

We are in for an interesting empty nest time... .

It makes sense not to upset the apple cart during the holidays. However, don't sell him short about being able to change. So his mom catered to his dad their entire marriage. Well, times change and perhaps he needs to learn to flow with the changes and so do you. Yes, rages and silent treatment is not fun, but they've worked with you. When they no longer work, then he might be willing to try a new strategy, such as "helping". Wouldn't that be amazing?

Speaking from experience, resentment such as you're feeling, doesn't go away on its own. It's a sign to you that what you're doing, or not doing, isn't working for you. And IMO, will get worse over time.

You're not the same person you were when you had your hands full with little kids, diapers, and all your other household responsibilities. You have far greater personal power than you did then, plus the benefit of wisdom from experience. You also understand personality disorders and you realize that certain communication patterns that work with healthy people, don't work with people with PDs, even people with only traits of a PD, such as your husband.

It's never pleasant to make big changes where it's likely that unpleasant behavior will be triggered. But you're in a position where you're feeling a lot of resentment and at some point, it's likely that you will want to resolve that. And certainly it's not a black and white situation--you don't need to "end" the marriage, but it would be nice if your husband could be willing to lend even a modicum of help for some tasks, after all the years you've carried the full burden yourself. He might be pleasantly surprised at how grateful and appreciative you'd be.

Cat, I think you just helped me to identify why the holiday felt so uncomfortable for me.

We did not have these kinds of family times together when I was growing up. For Thanksgiving, we went to a restaurant. My H's family holidays looked like right out of a Norman Rockwell picture to me. They were the kind of holiday I only dreamed about as a kid.

I had no idea what "normal" was. What are holidays at my in laws? Basically, Mom works around the clock cooking, cleaning, and making a ton of food. Women in the family help. FIL either is eating or sitting in the living room. The kids have a a great time.

For holidays I basically turned into his Mom and he reverts back to his family patterns. I also realize his work routine is a stable factor and when he is home, he gets antsy and hyper. I am over sensitive to this and go into walking on eggshell mode- but that isn't what I want to do right now. It feels a bit trapped though as I don't want to deal with possible raging when the kids are home. I also want it to be a nice holiday and I like to cook great food, but it seems I get emotionally back into that co-dependent place. Maybe this is the first time I really realized it.

Does this make sense?

Maybe Santa will bring him a cookbook ;)

Excerpt

If I am not home, and he does fix something simple for himself, he leaves the pots or pans for me. However, he supports us and when I have asked for help, he tells me I can't help him with his job and so this is fair to him and he would feel resentful otherwise.

... .oh' boy and 'really' on that one... .wow!

I work too, since I was a lad... .and now I'm fifty two... .if I even were to leave something in the sink, I'd say, "I got the mess duty tonight sugar pop!, now you go and relax ok, what's on TV tonight, .can I get you anything?"... .

Albeit I used to hear a lot from uBPDw when she was working too, as I usually got into the house first... .in the last couple of years of her career before she resigned it... .like... ."WHY didn't you put your lunch box dishes into the dishwasher, .do I have to do it all" (?)... .so I'd retort... ."look, -I- unload in the AM early, then reload and run in the evenings late, after everyone's had their bathroom time (hot water discipline)... .so don't worry about it, I got it ok"... ."is there anything I can get for you dear"... .that's when the fight would start, pre-BPD discovered time frame... .

And there was another issue, some pots, and pans don't go into the dishwasher, and I wanted to hand wash them, so I'd wait till I had a "load"... .then sort, then wash... .but to her (uBPDw), I was being "stupid", and or "lazy"... ."so says the accountant to the aviation ordnanceman I'd tell her" !... .yeah, that's what I'd tell her, and I did it just pissed her off even more... but by that time, that was what my intent was... .most times when she got home, she was on the edge of road rage, and or work related rage... name the subject, she was "pissed" about, and you'd win every time ( Alex Trebek )... .

Excerpt

After our meal, he will bring his dishes to the sink and clear his stuff off the table. But he will not put them in the dishwasher, or empty it.

Again... .(wow)... .so I would try to intercede, if she cooked, I'd ask if she "needed any help", if I cooked, and she asked... I'd say "no I'm good to go speed racer, here is a glass of wine, go sit down and relax; watch the news"... .and after supper, Id say, "I got the mess duty tonight"... ."so you are not allowed in the kitchen until cleanup, and mess and maintenance is "secured""... .as in, we cant really do anything together anyways... so... ."I got it babe, why don't you go and call your mom, or your daughter, or your son, or your sister... or watch TV"... as in I would like to enjoy my time alone in the kitchen... .

Towards the end, she would come back into the kitchen and "re-load / re-stack" the dishwasher ... .

I spent a few daze onboard ship, .I know how to "get round" in the kitchen, err... ."mess deck"... .my Granny would be proud of me :hi: !

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=V7P2QY48xzs

I imagine leaving my tray and dishes on the table in the mess hall, .what would have happened, if the mess Sergeant saw that !... .what was the line from Sergeant Toomey... .Christopher Walken's character from the movie "Biloxi Blues (1988)... .he said to one of the young Privates in the mess hall... ."we eat all we want, and we eat all we take, and we police ourselves accordingly"... .or something like that ; )

Red5

If you’re interested in changing this dynamic between the two of you, after the holidays, when the kids aren’t around, then maybe we could plan a strategy that might help him to adjust his expectations of you.

A big part of implementing a change in the household procedures is to ask yourself how much distress you can tolerate. And you definitely don’t want to fall short of your goal and introduce intermittent reinforcement for raging and silent treatment.

You’ve already cut back on some of your cooking and he has to figure out how to feed himself on nights when you work late. You know he doesn’t like it, but he’s capable of doing it. What you need to work on is detaching yourself from his negative reaction when he has to fend for himself.

That was, and sometimes continues to be, my stumbling block. I want everyone to be happy, and more than that, to be happy with me, so that they’re not undermining my peace of mind.

That is my weakness. And knowing that, I can address it and self soothe when my husband is grumpy or dissatisfied with something I’ve done or haven’t done.

Truth be told, he gets over it far more quickly when I just let him “stew in his own juices” rather than when I used to try and make things better. He’s upset? Fine, let him be upset. Go about your own business and keep an upbeat mood. He will come around when he’s ready, or when he wants or needs something from you.

So you don’t have to go all Lyssistrata cooking-celibate, but you can install a new rule. “I’ll make your favorite meal if you chop the veggies for the salad.” Or, “I’m tired after working all day. You can help me with the dishes.”

I know you will say he will blow up and rage if asked to help, but if he does that, then you stop what you’re doing and say, “If you want dinner, then you’ll speak politely to me. Otherwise, I’m not cooking.”

I know this may be a step too far, considering your long term history, but you can adjust these suggestions to what you feel you might be able to successfully pull off.

My biggest hurdle was getting over the idea that by asserting my right to be treated fairly, I’d be seen as a witch with a b, or that I was somehow being unkind or unfair to him. After I got over that, then I had to make sure that I was in an emotionally balanced place, not feeling resentful or victimized, and then having a strategy that I could stick with and if that wasn’t working, to be able to calmly disengage and stay centered.

Resentment can only be tolerated so long before it starts undermining your relationship. Address its root causes, make changes in the way you do things, and you might be surprised at how much better things can become.

My stumbling block is that I am over sensitive to someone else's distress and also to the fact that he supports the family. It may be as much my problem as his, but it is something he has used for leverage in the past, not as much now but it still is tough to have heard it. I am not the kind of person to take advantage of that, and I have been responsible with money. It's very triggering to have someone assume that I am not pulling my weight in the house due to my experience with BPD Mom. She has such a sense of entitlement and I likely have gone to the other extreme.

I also don't enjoy an identity as a housewife who likes to socialize and shop or those stereotypes. I'm more of a nerd in that sense and love my job because it is intellectually stimulating. I love being a mom and do the child care/house work out of love of that job, but I do not love these so called "wifely duties". I actually love to cook- for a partner, not an adult who wants to be fed and served and then do the clean up. I think it is actually tougher now that I don't need to do all the mothering for small kids. If I'm cooking for a family, it's cooking a big meal for everyone. Cooking for two adults is different.

It's a tough space to be in because he works more and still longer hours and comes home hungry. It feels cruel to not want to fix a nice dinner for him and I do appreciate what he does for us as a family. I don't expect him to cook for me- I don't want him to do that as I am the better cook or even clean up after dinner all the time but I would like to do this as a team some of the time. It's really hard to put my finger on what bugs me. I don't mind cooking but I don't like to be caretaking an adult. I think it is also triggering for me to "serve" an adult as I had to wait on BPD mom and take care of her. That is not his fault for those feelings. It's also hard because this is his love language- being fed, catered to and he does feel hurt and neglected when I don't. I don't want to be hurtful. He's a good person and a caring father to the kids, so why can't I just do it and be OK with it? It's somehow tough.

But you are spot on. If I don't do something, the resentment will be an issue.

BPDFamily.com

Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Conflicted About Continuing, Divorcing/Custody, Co-parenting => Topic started by: Notwendy on November 26, 2018, 09:30:31 AM