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I have had very infrequent contact with my BPD/NPD mother over the past few months, partly because she rarely called me (like once a month), and I was traveling for awhile. All of sudden she is escalating her calls to several times a week, and is more sure than usual that my life is just a disaster. She does not usually wear her hearing aid when we talk, and she says the same mean hurtful things over and over again, that I have asked her not to say. I am quite sick and tired of being a dumping grounds for her unhappiness. Other than that, I am in pretty good shape, going on with my life, doing what I love to do, and limiting the contact with the members of my family with BPD/NPD. I am thinking of getting a new phone number and not giving it out to any of my family members. What do you think?

Zachira,  :hi:

That sounds really nice doing things you love,   and not so nice hearing hurtful things on the phone, that you asked her to not say. 

What would you think of doing a pros and cons of changing the number and a pros and cons of keeping the number with us here on the board to start?

With Respect DG

There is one pro: I won't have to talk to my mother any more. I often wonder why she has lived so long when all she does is create misery for her children. The negative is I will likely miss some phone calls from people I really care about. Do I want to live my life in fear of my mother's next melt down and how she will do everything she can to enmesh me? If this were anybody else, he/she would not be in my life or take up space in my head if at all possible.

i hear you on the enmeshment, same here, very, very messy. 

So changing the number would equal cutting off all contact with some of the family members, is that right? what are you thinking and feeling on that?

 

I am basically going to be stuck talking to my mother one way or another. She is very elderly and will not be here much longer.  My wonderful babysitter who I believe took care of me from around the time I was born until age four died last week. She was in good health until relatively recently, a joy to be around, and much younger than my mother. A lot of people will miss my babysitter and when mom's dies it will be a relief for some of us. Sometimes I feel there is no God. Why does someone as toxic as my mother hang on forever while others who are great people die relatively young?

that is so sad with your beloved babysitter, was it unexpected?  yes in same spot with my Dad, he has made these last few months so hard people will be relieved when he goes.  

 i have no idea, maybe greater minds than mine will come along and help us with this one!

In your first post you said you are doing things you love, what are you doing?

There seems to be a lot of anger here zachira.

It sounds like you're not too fond of her. Stay calm and say what you need to say before she goes, you will definitely not have a chance when the inevitable happens.

No contact is definitely a path you can take, but let it be on your terms: "I am doing this, this is why", can be as simple as that.

As much as it hurts from your past, getting some closure for yourself, not from her, could stave off regret and further anger down the line.

Dealing with end of life issues is hard enough, take care of yourself zachira
 

Mom has left another message on my voice mail early this morning, one I will not be listening to. I called mom's house and the caretaker I know answered the phone. I told her to tell my mom I am okay and not to call me. The caretaker responded by saying that my brother must be dialing my number for her. I was wondering why I had so many months of peace in which mom barely called. It seems she has gotten to the point where she can't dial herself. My brother probably can't stand to listen to mom talk about how worried she is about me, which isn't about anything except mom's need to control all her children. (The phone calls are always abusive and about how I have not succeeded in anything in life and how I desperately need her to support me financially, none of which is remotely true. I have torn up checks from her in the past. I am not well off, yet I can take care of my self.) My brother is apparently relieving his anxiety by having her call me. I don't expect any kind of cooperation on the part of my brother to stop the phone calls. I am going to have to find ways to not be so upset. The past few months I have been feelings happy and at peace most of the time, and I was getting some real relief from not having so many ongoing toxic encounters with my mother and siblings with BPD/NPD. I experienced some amazing relief when I took a several long week trip with no phone calls to the family (I did not take my phone so I would not be hearing from them.), and the peace of mind I had that I could not be abused on the spur of the moment by contact with my family members was really healing. I can not go fully no contact right now for numerous reasons, yet for my mental and physical health, I need to limit the kind and amount of contact I have with my family members with BPD/NPD (mostly mom and siblings).

Can you identify some of the tools we talk about here and see how to apply them to your situation?

Harri,
Can you suggest which tools you think might help, after reading my comments?
To all:
I have no interest in validating my family members or taking care of them. I make it a point to listen and say little. Both my mother and siblings have NPD as well as BPD, and as long as I listen and don't share my point of view, we are usually fine. They usually assume that I think just like them if I don't do anything to show that I feel differently. It is when I demonstrate that I am a separate person from them which of course is going to happen from time to time. I am often treated badly, though they treat me badly no matter what I do, and there is no way to predict when the rages are going to happen. I am in no way interested in trying to improve my relationship with them, as it can't be done. They are abusive, plain and simple. If I could go no contact with them I would.
I have been in therapy for years. Most of the time, I am a happy caring human being. I no longer am attracted to people that are like my family members. I have wonderful friends. I am doing the things I love. It takes a lot for me to get triggered, and I can in no way tolerate regular abusive phone calls from my mother. I usually am able to calm myself down through meditation and quiet time in nature and/or spending time with friends.
What is going on right now, is my sister and mother, both with BPD/NPD are trying to get back in my life My brother with BPD/NPD basically wants nothing to do with me. My sister is trying to be super nice, which is more like the honeymoon phase in the cycle of DV. I am just enjoying the honeymoon with my sister, and not stressing over the fact that she will start raging once again, mostly about things that I have nothing to do with yet somehow I am suddenly the cause of her distress. Mom is another matter. I can take her abusive calls once a week and no more than that. I always make an excuse after a couple of minutes and hang up. What I cannot bear is mom calling me every day and abusing me. It is too upsetting for my nervous system.
As I write this post, I feel myself calming down and getting back to baseline. Somehow, I know that Harri and others understand and care. I feel calmer and more at peace that I have in many days. I just can't keep it all inside and this group really helps. I appreciate everyone who takes time to help. I know people on PSI get what I am going through because they have family members similar to mine.

 

I did not offer the tools to improve your relationship.  That is NOT what the tools are about zachira. 

Learning about Boundaries is about protecting us and living by our personal values.
Learning about SET is about finding a way to express your truth in a way where you actually might have a chance of being heard
Learning Don't invalidate is to learn how to talk to make things better for us rather than escalating an already difficult situation
Learning Self-Differentiation is about separating emotionally so that anyone, not just family can not wound us to the point of crashing and burning.
DEARMAN, BIFF and other tools also help with these things.

The tools make our lives easier with or without our pwBPD

I am glad you said what you said because there are so many here who believe the same falsehoods about the tools as you express here.  Guaranteed ww will have others come along and read your post and validate you and they in turn will feel validated.

And *that* is why learning about validation is important.  While your feelings are valid the premise you hold about the tools and why we focus on them is false.


Take your focus off them and put it on you.  If that means cutting contact, do it.  And accept there are consequences to you choice.
If that means limited contact do it.  And accept their are consequences to your choice.
If that means full contact then do it.  And accept there are consequences to your choice.

You get to figure out which tools will and won't work for your situation and decide if you want to learn them.  It is your life and your choice.   

Hi zachira :hi:

I am sorry your beloved babysitter died  Sounds like you were still very fond of her. When was the last time you saw her?


Why do you feel like you're stuck talking to her one way or another?


Then don't. As an adult responsible for your own decisions, you get to decide what to do now. Nobody can force you to do anything you don't want to do.


Whether you would go no contact or not is your decision to make. You say that if you could go no contact you would. Are you referring to them reaching out to you with abusive calls that in some way keeps the contact going? Or are there also other factors leading to a situation with a certain level of contact?


I am glad participating here is helpful to you

The Board Parrot

critical moms are really tough. i think theres no one more uniquely capable of getting under our skin. im very close to my mom, and she doesnt have BPD, but she can get in these critical modes, and when she does, it drives me up a freakin wall. i can tell her to knock it off in all sorts of ways, but it inevitably happens again.

what happened in the latest call? what sorts of hurtful things did she say, and how do you respond?

zachira, I’m going to ask a very pointed question. I’ve asked myself this very same question. I was adopted and I didn’t have that infant/mother bond.

Do you love your mother? Do your feelings for her feel like love to you?

Thank you everyone who has taken the time to reply. I appreciate your thoughts, ideas, and questions.
I am now realizing what I want the most now is compassion and understanding from those who are still dealing with an abusive mother and/or siblings with BPD/NPD,  who are low contact and cannot go no contact, yet from time to time become emotionally overwhelmed by the latest round of abuse. I have pretty good boundaries with my mother and siblings right now and I am doing well emotionally most of the time. For me, to suggest that I need to do more work on myself at this point, I experience as being invalidated. I have been to years of therapy, practice regular mindfulness, and pretty much am not affected by mom's and siblings' latest lashing out. What I am realizing now is that after several months of being pretty much unaffected by mom and my siblings with NPD/BPD's behaviors, that they are finding new ways to get under my skin, and none of them will ever accept that I have pretty much separated from them emotionally and am not that distressed 90 percent of the time by what they do. What is key to me is low contact, and to immediately recognize and process my feelings when the abuse happens. I have had no phone calls from mom today, and hopefully this will continue. I am thinking of blocking her number, which is something I would rather not do. To reiterate, I am looking for compassion from those who understand what it is like to be in a situation where no contact is not possible and how hurtful and destabilizing it can be to suddenly be blindsided by a new cycle of abuse, until new healthier boundaries can be established which essentially means having even lower contact.

Zachira,

It is the worst isn't it? 
You know you're doing well, everything seems on track, and the communication with your pwBPD/NPD is under control. And then suddenly there's a shift. They change the rules of the game, and you are caught unawares.

I am also in LC. I know that some limited emotional offloading will always occur. I can let it slide off me as long as I am mentally prepared. Sometimes my mum catches me unawares, and I reel from the effect she can still have on me. I get angry at myself for letting my guard down.

I hope the cycle will end or at least diminish. Maybe you can communicate that you will only answer her calls once a week? That could lessen the stress of waiting for a call on a daily basis?

Stay focussed on you, on your own life, and try to get your rain-suit back on.

 

Libra.

Can i apply for the position?  I can so relate to your situation, have total compassion, you reached out to me early on thank you! 

I sure wish i had validated your feelings in my first response to you.  i knew i was practicing, and thought it might be ok to switch to problem solving because you have the title of ambassador.  So sorry. I learned the power of validating from this exchange.  Anyway so glad we are here.
with much respect dg

I have an elderly uBPDm who insists on a phone call every day. Right now she is in waif mode, so mostly repeats the same complaints. She is a help seeking rejector, and it is exhausting. She refuses a caretaker, as it would embarrass her in her independent living community, she has 3 daughters to take her on all her errands, etc. The reason she is waif like is that one sibling has left the country for 6 months and the other is keeping her at a distance due to old hurts. This leave little old me, who incidentally is wearing the black hat. So it is a fine line between waif and queen mode, and anything I say or do will be held against me. I try to set limits, try to have 1 day each week where I will be out of cell phone service, and realize that one day is just not enough. My resentment is now not only aimed at my Mom, but now growing to include my siblings who have figured out a way to leave the hard part to me. I understand that I am not responsible, yet the only way to get her to accept a caregiver or assisted living would be for a crisis to happen which will accelerate that need to be met. And I will end up in the middle of that crisis. To say I understand and validate what you are going through is an understatement. I am drowning here and my family keeps pulling me under. I feel the only way for me to survive is NC, but the siblings have beat me to it by drawing their lines in the sand. NC will just not work at this time, and LC to my Mom means phone calls  every day for 20 minutes instead of 45 min. phone calls. Heavy sigh.

Madeline7,
My heart goes out to you having regular contact with your mother every day. You are limiting the length of phone calls, which is what seems to be the right decision for you right now. Nobody else can define for us how to do low contact. In my case, my siblings have kicked me out of mom's house and coming for Christmas any more, for no apparent reason. I truly believe that their rage  and acceleration in cruel behaviors over the past 15 months stems from my becoming a better person through years of hard work in therapy, and they can no longer make me feel like a horrible person unworthy of love or success. I believe my brother was regularly dialing my phone number so my mother could call me after his attempts to go for the jugular vein did not work when he kicked me out of Christmas, refused to allow me to stay at my mother's house anymore, did not want me to visit at all, and limited mom's phone calls to me, which all really helped me to get some relief from all the years of abuse in the end. So now, he is doing the opposite which is to accelerate her contact with me because he knows that upsets me. There have been no phone calls for two days, so I believe my talk with mom's caretaker worked, at least for now. Thank you for your compassion and understanding.
 

DharmaGate,
Thank you for understanding, caring, and being compassionate.I appreciate your listening and hearing what I need. It is a tough call to know whether to help with tools, advice, and compassion, or just show compassion. I frequently err when trying to help members as I am not a natural empath and more of a thinker. There are some members who are completely unwilling to take a look at their part in the relational dynamics, and can really wear out those who listen and respond. There are other members who are really doing everything they can to the best of their abilities at the moment, and need to be supported with compassion and caring. We are not the experts on what is best for another person. I have just read Randi Kreger's post on this site about how in her new edition of "Stop Walking on Eggshells" she will be discussing how validation does not work at all with a person with BPD and narcissistic traits because they have no empathy. My mother and siblings who both have BPD and NPD only get more angry if I try to validate their feelings. I also know that for many members that the validation tools have really helped them to be able to get along better with their family member with BPD. Every one of us is different and no two situations are exactly the same: I am constantly learning from other members what it is like to walk in their shoes.  

Libra,
You have perfectly described what it is like to be caught unawares with another meltdown from the BPD in our lives and what we have to do to not be so impacted by the latest episode. We can do all the work in preparing for the next cycle, yet can never fully anticipate what they will do or how we will respond. Part of the dynamics of these people with BPD and/or NPD is to accelerate the cruelty when they realize that the person they want to control is becoming more self assured and is less negatively affected by their cruel behaviors. This happens all the time in divorce court when the spouse with the personality disorder makes all kinds of unfounded accusations about the person that they are divorcing.
I am finally back to baseline after the compassionate understanding of two of my married men friends who I took a walk with last night. I have had no calls from mom since Saturday which likely means that my message to mom's caretaker has worked for now, and I can be at peace.
I had been limiting my interaction with mom to once a week, which I plan to continue once I have healed from this latest cycle of abuse.
Thank you for your compassion. It means more than I can say.

Well, my mother has started calling me every day after a few days break. I don't pick up the phone and haven't listened to the messages on my voice mail. It seems I have reached a breaking point. After several months of having little to do with her and my siblings and feeling at peace most of the time, it is like my heart and soul are telling me that I need to end the relationship with my mother and siblings which I can't do right now, that getting regular abusive phone calls from mom is a death knell for my mental health. I feel my option now is to wait until I can talk to one of my siblings and tell them I will no longer be taking her calls. I have told mom for years on end that the abusive things she says to me are not okay and it falls on deaf ears. I also have the option of blocking her number. All this may result in my being disinherited and I do need the money for my retirement. Mom is very elderly and could die anytime, and for me, it just could not happen soon enough. A life time of abuse is too much to bear. Once mom is gone, I will have my siblings with BPD/NPD who are a lot like mom to deal with. Right now, I just need someone to listen and some heartfelt empathy. Do not send me any more tools from this site, as for me this is totally invalidating at this point. I have worked on myself for years and years, and I am done looking at my part in the family dynamics and how I can change. I have a fulfilling life and good self esteem most of the time other than the problems with my only immediate family members who all have BPD/NPD. Just can't do the abusive phone calls with mom anymore. It is like I have reached the point that some people reach when they decide to divorce because their marriages are not worth saving. Divorcing the family is far more painful than getting a divorce in my opinion because it means not having a family for now, until I can create my own family and life, completely apart from my siblings which can't happen until mom is gone and all the ways mom has financially and legally enmeshed my siblings and myself are settled which seems like a never ending battle at this point.

I admire your strength in not listening to the voicemails. I always listen and usually call back. In projecting to the future, how will you feel if she does pass away during a period of NC? That, for me, is what is keeping me hooked in. For some reason, it makes me anxious to think I will be NC and will have to decide if I will make a hospital visit if she is on her "death bed". Or how the family would react to me if I showed up at the funeral. I also don't want my kids to be left out of any inheritance, especially if their cousins get something. My relationship with my siblings have tanked in the past 2 years and I don't feel supported by them. I hope you feel that whatever choice you make is the right one for you.

Hi zachira :hi:

Since you find your mother's phone calls and voice mails so distressing, I think it's probably a wise move to just not pick up the phone and not listen to the voice mails.

When you feel like you've reached a breaking point, it's important to really listen to what your mind, body and soul are telling you and to be mindful of that.


Your mother likely won't change and even if she could/would, this isn't something you can control. You indeed have options, not picking up and not listening to voice mails is one of them and blocking her number altogether is another one. I gather from your post that you are not (yet) willing to block her because of the possible financial consequences this might have.


What you describe here sounds like a boundary you want to set to protect yourself from your mother's verbal abuse. Setting and enforcing/defending your boundaries is indeed something you can control and your boundaries can help you preserve your own well-being. Boundaries do not necessarily have to be verbally expressed though. You can also express them non-verbally through the change in your behavior, i.e. not taking your mother's calls anymore. Do you feel like you need to talk to your siblings before setting this boundary? How do you expect your siblings to react?

The Board Parrot

Madeline7 and Kwamina,
Thank you for your responses.
Madeline7
I feel that you and I are stuck in that we can't go no contact with our mothers and are not supported by our siblings which is a double tragedy. I don't see my mother in person much any more because I live far away. I was wondering if it helps you to see the distressing expressions of those that work with your mother when they observe how she treats you. I know that when others have shown on their faces their compassion for me when mom mistreats me, I seem to internalize the compassion and am not so affected by her behaviors.
Kwamina,
You have hit the nail on the head about the fact that mom is verbally abusing me. It is especially disturbing that she turns off her hearing aid so I can't respond and says the same cruel things over and over again. Verbal abuse can be far more hurtful than physical abuse. I really can't take her calls any more. To keep in contact, I am going to send her cards, like one for her birthday next week. The hard part is the constant calls, and having to delete the voice mails which I have to listen to the beginning part before pressing delete. I probably can't share any of this with my siblings as it will likely backfire on me, though my sister might get irate enough with mom to tell her to that I don't want to talk with her because of the things she says to me once mom complains to my sister that I am not taking her calls. My challenge is not to continue to feel upset knowing that mom will likely be calling daily and just seeing her number on my phone upsets me. Sometimes I used to call her back so she would leave me alone, and right now I just can't do that. My body is telling me I can't tolerate her calls any more probably because I had such a long time with no contact with mom and my mind and body seem to be determined to protect me from further abuse.

z. I hope that things are looking up for you. The anxiety is a very hard part of keeping some sort of contact with our abusers. I can remember not answering the phone when I saw that it was my mom calling. “JNChell, why aren’t you talking to us?” Click. The voicemails were as bad as talking to them. The tone in those messages set off my anxiety. Hence my anxiety disorder. Any contact was triggering when I didn’t want it. I blocked everything out for a long time. It’s all at surface now.

All of sudden she is escalating her calls to several times a week, and is more sure than usual that my life is just a disaster.

Please forgive me for not studying the entire thread. I’m speaking to your OP.  You have just went on a spiritual journey geographically and mentally. If she knows that, she will try to diminish it. We both know why.

I am quite sick and tired of being a dumping grounds for her unhappiness.

My parents died nearly a decade ago. My burden is different.

z, you’re the ground keeper of your space. You own that real estate. If the “no trespassing” signs are being ignored, maybe it’s time to become a more pragmatic enforcer. Protect your feelings.

I’m 42 and a blue collar worker. I was rubbing S4’s back tonight as he fell asleep beside me. I couldn’t help but notice the contrast between my worked and aged hand and his young skin. That close moment with my Son made me realize that I’m not going to be here forever.

Whether or not I put those thoughts to task tomorrow  is another thing.

I am thinking of getting a new phone number and not giving it out to any of my family members. What do you  think?

I think that you’re pondering a big change. Weigh the pros and cons on paper. I think that you’re looking out for yourself and there is nothing wrong with that. More importantly, how do you feel about changing your number?

JNChell,
Thank you for understanding my situation, that the abusive contact is extremely taxing on my system, and how mom is escalating her bad behaviors because I have pulled away from her. This is like divorcing a person with BPD and/or NPD who out of nowhere is making all kinds of unfounded accusations like DV and child abuse. Over the past year, the abuse from my mom and sibling with BPD and NPD has escalated to levels of cruelty I never though possible. I have been more self assured than usual and have engaged very little in the toxic dynamics; they have zero perspective on their behaviors and are always right. As far as changing my phone number goes, there would be no way I can really keep it from mom. Right now I am not taking mom's calls and deleting her voice mails which makes me so sad that it has come down to this, and I realize I have no choice. My long period of little contact while traveling and my brother likely refusing to dial my number for mom for several weeks, gave me a lot of peace and healing. Now that I have genuinely healed, my nervous system is giving me a strong message that I cannot go back to being verbally abused over the phone by mom. Thank you for listening and replying with kindness and empathy.