BPDFamily.com

So...D13 did a little bit better today.  She could stay up moving around the house about an hour until the headaches came.

I was giving my wife the rundown of how things went and the results of the call with the doctor.  The basics were that we would have another phone conference in the morning to figure out a plan for when she could go back to school and the limitations because of concussion.

Then...out of nowhere my wife says I'm taking D13 to school with me tomorrow.  She'll be fine there.

I was shocked..suggested we should get clearance from doctor to do that, especially since she won't have her bed to go lay down in. 

My wife starts yelling that she can lay down at her school..they have pillows in the library.

The dysregulation went into full swing and I excused myself into the bedroom. 

She's been ranting about various things...that I "always say no"..."that I have the funny idea that I can say no."...my wife says "it's my daughter I can do what I want.."

I've texted my P...I don't think she is available.

My plan is to try and validate and smooth things in the morning by saying I'm fine with the plan if a doctor approves it.  (which I am...I am a fan of our daughter doing more activity...the doc is the one holding us back..likely wisely holding us back)

So...if validation fails in the morning...I plan to call not allow my daughter to be taken from the house/call 911 as needed.

I hope it doesn't come to that.

Any thoughts...I'm thinking correctly here..right?

FF

Your daughter is the best judge of how she feels after a concussion. I had one two years ago and it was really debilitating. Lights and sounds were painful and my balance was really off. It takes a while for the brain to heal and it is not in her best interests to push her back into her normal routine if she’s not feeling ready.

And the headaches really suck. I think she needs more time at home.

I didn’t drive for about three weeks because I knew I wasn’t up to it. And it took several months to get back to normal.

Now concussions are all different but mine was classified as “mild”.

So...if my daughter is being yelled at by her Mom in the morning...order to get ready and D13 says she feels fine to go...would you trust it...without having a doctor OK first?

Today she said she felt fine..would be up for 1 hour...then things changed and headache showed up.  We tested it three different times.  1 hour activity each time.

First day of trying to sort out data and see if she is getting better or worse.

FF

I was in the room with the doctor when they were doing the nero tests.  My daughter "flunked" most of them.

They sent us for a "stat" cat scan to make sure she wasn't bleeding slowly.  This was Monday.

Thankfully there was no bleed but they confirmed excess fluid on the brain in an area that affects an ear.  And...yep...that ear feels weird to her.

Was really scary watching her flunk those tests.  Like touch your nose, touch fingers together, rub heal on shins..

Simple things..she was wobbling around.

FF

Noo. The doctor needs to clear her before she returns to school. If her brain doesn’t get enough time to rest, it’s going to be far worse.

They haven't officially classified hers yet...they are prepping us for it to be a severe concussion that could last a while.

My understanding is they will classify it this coming Monday when they compare things to a week before.

FF

Absolutely you need to put your foot down, FF. This is serious and could impact her for a long time. The worst case is if she has another head injury in the near future. And if she’s not steady on her feet or participates in PE, that’s a possibility.

Please help me think this through.

My wife teaches 2nd grade at a different school.

My wife is saying she WILL take her to her school tomorrow...so they can be together and she can "rest as good there as she can at home."

FF

So..I guess she will help out in the classroom...I can't figure it out.

My wife claims there are pillows that kids sleep on in the library and she can go there...or she can go to the nurses station to lie down.

D13 is in 8th grade.

My wife teaches 2nd.  In a K-5 school.

FF

That’s f’n crazy. She needs to rest at home. It’s not like anything else when you have a brain injury.

Trying to build a bridge to my wife...I think we are going to take a hot soak together for a bit.

Maybe I'll do some back rubbing or something else to distract..calm her.

This sucks...time to put my game face on.

FF

After having a “mild” concussion, I can’t even be in the same room with football on the TV because I know how devastating these brain injuries are.

NO! NO! NO!

She must be cleared by a doctor. Your wife is out of her mind if she thinks it’s appropriate to take a concussed daughter to work when she can’t even tolerate being up for an hour.

OK...so I'm convinced I'm rationally thinking this through...that this can't happen unless cleared by a doctor FIRST.

FF

So...any suggestions on validating..smoothing..whatever are appreciated.

At the moment my wife is nice as peach pie.  I think I'm going to focus on good soak and see what else can happen after that.  (it's way past my bedtime...but I think this is worth staying up for)

I'm clear that I can't let this happen...but also really don't want to have to make that call (don't worry...I won't flinch...I've done it before)

I'm going to try and "fill up" my wife with good stuff...maybe that will cut the edge off of whatever is bugging her.

FF

No suggestions on validation but what occurs to me is that she’s minimizing her responsibility for asking your son to drive the girls.

She's probably feeling some guilt and remorse, but doesn’t want to admit it to herself.

The basics were that we would have another phone conference in the morning to figure out a plan for when she could go back to school and the limitations because of concussion.

An idea...  this is no different than any other illness where a doctor needs to clear a child for return to school. I would think that the school would agree that her doctor needs to be guiding this process. You might agree to wait until after the phone conference in the morning and be willing to take d13 late if the doctor agrees. (probably won't happen, she'll need accommodations in place)

Can you get the information about the plan in written form? That way it's not something that "you" are telling her - it's the doctor's instructions.

Yes it will be written.  My wife says she will take her before the conference.

I am not going to allow that.

I offered to bring her after/if a doctor cleared here.  No good for my wife.

My wife is asleep now...we had relaxing time together. 

I hope she wakes up much more reasonable.

FF

I'm sorry to hear about all this, FF.

What's the situation in terms of your wife going to work? Does she have to do this contractually/fear of being fired etc? Or is it something she wants to do?

Is your wife maybe afraid to leave your daughter? Is she more shaken up by this than she is letting on? Does she have to go into work (for whatever reason, contractual or psychological), but feel too frightened to be away from daughter in case something happens while she's gone, and needs the reassurance of being able to see constantly throughout the day that daughter is alright?

If so, that still doesn't make it okay, obviously. And I agree with others that you have to put your foot down on this, because your daughter's medical needs are paramount here and there is no contest between these and your wife's emotional needs.

What ways can your wife be reassured other than by your daughter's presence? Hourly "all ok" texts or similar?

fingers crossed..things are calmer

She  leaves for work in 15 min or so..

FF

Please take your D to the doctor.

You don't have to call 911 if it isn't an emergency- you can put her in the car and go to the ER.

Your D is feeling poorly after being in an accident and having "fluid on the brain"?  Please have her checked out.

You don't need to warm soak/snuggle your wife over this decision while your D is having issues. Your wife has already shown poor judgement when it comes to the welfare of your kids. Taking your child to get medical help isn't debatable. Let the medical team decide if it is concerning or not- but to do that they need to see her. If she's OK- then she can go to school.

OK...I think the issue has passed.  D13 is home...FFw is on way to work without her.

I'm trying to relax...shaking a bit.

I need to update you on the medical status of d13..she had "stat" (right now) cat scan on Monday because she flunked a bunch of neurological tests.  Verified no "slow bleed" but she DOES have excess fluid on her brain that is pressing in areas and causing symptoms.

She can be up for about an hour before bad headaches start in.  Hopefully today she can be up longer..yesterday was the first day I tried to track it.

Really relieved but shakey at the moment...

FF

When they evaluated her, did they make any plans for her to be followed by a neurologist to track her recovery?

For school athletes there is a "concussion protocol" that they follow if the child gets a concussion. It starts with resting the brain- no school work at all, then a gradual return to school work and eventually the child is cleared for all activities.

It would seem to me that even though she didn't get the injury from sports, a similar plan would be in place.

A plan would also take the argument away from between you and your wife to the "medical orders".

Yes...sort of.  Today is the day (that doctor conference I was talking about) where they are going to start/or make a plan for concussion recovery.

They really haven't "officially" declared it a concussion because they were ruling out other more serious issues (like a "slow brain bleed"). 

The docs  said they didn't want to misdiagnose with "only" a concussion when she is so obviously having major neuro symptoms. 

So..Sat night cat scans were clear she is released.

Sunday she feels somewhat better and I believe I made a mistake by agreeing to let her go see one of her friends that was in the accident.  At the time I believed it would be a good mental health thing to see each other..see how they were doing...etc etc.  She spent a few hours at the friends house.

That evening she had bad headaches. 

The next day we took her in for follow up at doctor office (she had only been seen at ER so far) and during the day on Monday she obviously was doing worse.  She flunked a ton of neuro tests at doctor office.

I respect this doctor a lot, so when she looks a parent in the eyes and says...we'll find an open cat scan and get her scanned "right now" and then explained "ruling out slow brain bleed"..that was scary.

We drove to hospital an got the scan.  Radiologist read it and I spoke to doc on phone.

No brain bleed but there is some concerning fluid.  She was cleared to go  home and was told they would follow up Tuesday.

Tuesday we followed up via phone and discussed where the fluid is...it's an area that primarily impacts hearing.  Yep..D13 complained that ear "was weird".

So..the plan was to follow up via phone today Wed and see if any trends have been established..etc etc. 

We have in person doctor visit schedule for this coming Monday so they can do neuro tests and compare the change in one week.

They didn't explicitly say no activity for the week...but she cautioned us to be gentle with D13.

I was pushing to get her into physical therapy to help get rid of soreness.  Doc shot that down...way too early.  She liked the thought but said until we get the brain recovery going in right direction...keep things light.

Said another way...I think she would have supported PT if no head injury.

So...sometime this morning I'll be on phone with doc again.

I will say she seems perkier this morning.  We just finished breakfast. 

If headaches take longer than 1 hour to show up...I'll take that as progress. 

I'll ask for another written note today.  The first notes were just school excuses.  Now they are going to be more detailed.

Hope that gives the flavor.

Oh...Doc also said that often day 2 after a car crash is the worst and stiff/sore really sets in.  So..there is a chance it wasn't the friend visit that was unhelpful...no way to really know.

I'm so glad you guys are here...helps me think.

FF

FF- I would not venture to diagnose, but there is a protocol for when kids can return to normal activities for concussion. Please ask your D's doctor for a plan for her according to what they think she needs.

This is an example of  one from one hospital. Ask the doctor for the one for your child. Since student athletes can have concussions, schools are generally familiar with these steps "level one, level two" etc. She may also need a plan for her teachers to go light on school work until she is better.

https://www.choa.org/~/media/files/Childrens/medical-services/concussion/concussion-teaching-sheet.pdf

I think I can understand a reason for your wife's behavior. It's my best guess. Your wife may have some bad feelings about what happened. For her to not be "at fault" there needs to be nothing wrong with your D. It's a bit of magical thinking but if your D is ok, then your wife doesn't feel as bad about it. I think at some level she must be feeling badly about what happened and is also worried about your D. By making your D "fine" it reduces these feelings. It's understandable that a parent would not want anything to happen to their child, so a bit of magical thinking might be in place here.

I saw some things similar to this when my father was ill. Understandably, my mother had to have some bad feelings about her spouse being seriously ill, so there was some magical thinking. She would expect him to do all the things he used to do when he was unable to. I think it was some form of BPD coping skills. Still, I think this impacted her judgment. One of the big conflicts between us was because I didn't think she was making the best decisions for him, and this was a threat to her. Yet, she and my dad were adults and I didn't have custody of him. You have custody of your D. Even if it upsets your wife, I think you have to take charge of her medical needs.

Notwendy,

Thanks for that paper.  Will be good talking points for when I chat with doctor today.

Today will be day 2 with no puking...assuming there is no puking.  Yesterday her stomach was queasy some..but she didn't actually get sick.

FF

Hang in there Formflier!

Praying for you and D13, and Mrs. FF as well,

Head injury… not to be taken lite… stay your course, steady as she goes,

Red5

I don't want to alarm you, but I want to impress on you that this is potentially very serious. A TBI can take several days to fully manifest as brain tissue swells in response to the original injury. It's not necessarily a linear path of progression -- it can seem to get better for a little while then get drastically worse.

Hopefully, this is not what is happening with your daughter, but you should absolutely follow medical advice and monitoring and not attempt to home diagnose based on how she is feeling any given hour.

To add to what flourdust said, my concussion seemed minor at the time. My head was a bit sore from where I hit it on a concrete valve cover. I checked myself out of the emergency department, against doctor's orders, but agreed to see my primary care doctor the following day. The cat scan had showed no brain bleed, so I thought I was in the clear. I basically felt fine, other than my head aching from that fall. I decided to go home because I had been at the ER for four hours, had not been given fluids, nor anything to eat or drink, other than a cup of ice chips, and I was really thirsty and hungry--which is why I had fainted in the first place, since I hadn't eaten anything since 6 a.m. and it was 8:30 p.m. and I'm thin.

I saw my doctor the next day, still felt fine. Then some time after that all the concussion symptoms started, maybe even the third day. Started seeing double, unsteady on my feet, had difficulty putting words together, bright lights and sound were extremely painful, sleeping 14-16 hours.

So I take back what I said about your daughter being the best judge of how she feels. Medical professionals, as others have mentioned should be the ones who determine her care and rehabilitation.

She needs a lot of quiet time to let the brain and body recover. As doctors told me later, "It takes a lot of energy for the brain to heal."

I'm quite alarmed already.  TBI is an unfortunately common element of military service.  I've never had one personally...but I'm familiar with protocols.

I don't have any direct experience with people that have blown off protocols, but I have heard plenty of stories..none of them good.

My wife has sent some ominous emails...maybe ominous is too strong about taking her tomorrow.  The doctors office opens in 15 minutes, I'm going to ask for a quick consult to get something in writing specifically about my daughter being out of the house for "the school day".

Sad to have to take it to that level..but...

Since around 645 am my daughter has been awake for about 2 hours...maybe 2.5 if I've missed some time there.  The rest of the time sleeping hard.

645 to 845 and then 1145/noon she was awake for about 30 minutes for a quick bite...some pain meds and back to sleep.

Sigh..

FF

Good grief I'm anxious...

I've place another call to the doctors office and I'm waiting for a call back.  Very very frustrating to have to wait.

My daughter should be up soon..so I'll have time to go over doctor paperwork with her before FFw gets home.  So she can digest the seriousness of the situation.

FF

Most likely your daughter will soon be fine. Young people heal a lot quicker than middle aged folks like me. What you want to be aware of is how another bump on the head can be problematic after a previous concussion.

I don't know if Neurofeedback is available in your area. It is expensive, no longer covered by insurance in most areas (except in some European countries). It's about the price of a psychotherapy appointment and is typically done once a week. I did that after my concussion and it took about 9 months to finish the program.

What was really cool about doing that is that I was able to see my brain map every week and I could watch the part that had sustained damage, slowly begin to heal. By the end of the program, all my brain waves were functioning on an optimal level and the damaged area had resolved.

You might ask her doctors about using fish oil capsules. That was something that was recommended to me to help my brain heal.

That's pretty cool.  I'll have to check it out.  I especially like the part about watching your brain area begin to heal.

FF

Hey...I started a new thread about my plans for tonight.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334472.new#new

One thing to wrap up this thread.  After a talk with doctor I realized I misunderstood the "fluid on the brain" comment.  Fluid was found on D13s "mastoid" and the fluid was unchanged from Sat night to Mon.  Likely unrelated to the trauma.

However..the doc cautioned not to get too excited...since she has a serious concussion.

FF

*mod*

This thread has reached its posting limit and has now been locked.