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I find that as more time passes, the sadder I often feel. Life moves on and she is probably moving on. It feels like it becomes more and more irrelevant whether her feelings were real or not, or whether she thinks about me at all. My self esteem is crashing, I often think she must have met someone 'better' than me, and that she won't push/pull with them, and it must have been my fault in some way, that I wasn't good enough. Really worried about going back to university in October even though it's a while away; she probably won't speak to me.

Still going over the possible reasons for her silence, and still can't really piece it together. I feel really alone in this process, people just say "move on" etc, someone even encouraged me to take part in a rebound relationship which I think would be a terrible idea for many reasons. I don't know. How can I really move forward when I'm just going to see her again?

 clvrnn,

As I am processing with great difficulty currently, try to stay busy with things and not dwell on negative stuff.

Two points,

1) She will do with anyone else what she did with you. Don't think this was you, you know it is not, it's her.  She will go through a similar cycle, maybe shorter, maybe longer but a closed end cycle nevertheless. She is not different with someone else, remember that. Any other guy will end up as you if not worse, nobody will fix her regardless of how you perceive them.  That person is not better than you.

2)You can't answer many of your questions by "thinking" about them.  You don't know and thinking some "good stuff" was real as opposed to everything was "this?" wasn't real doesn't help the healing process.

It's so easy for someone that hasn't been in your shoes to say "move on".  They mean well but like so many people that have heard this on the board, it's almost disrespectful to hear.  My wonderful Uncle keeps saying "next" to me and He means well and I cringe.

Keep in mind that those people do care and wish your pain to end and "moving on" from a nonpwBPD rs, would be that much more simple...that you probably know already.

This is a process...finding healthy ways to cope is the way to go.  I don't/can't take my own advice, but please take mine.

This is what I try to remember, that this is who she is. Of course I was not the perfect partner - who is? But this cycle, the way she behaves... it's her. I'm just fed up. I don't seem to be ever enough for someone to 'choose' long term. I recognise that it's idealization, but she'd always say "I've never connected with anyone like this" etc. It felt like it was real. If that were truly the case, though - why has she cut me off, like this? Then I guess it wasn't true.



That's a very good point. Thinking doesn't give me any answers, no. I think that my brain and my heart are just desperate for a solution, a reason as to why this happened. With my exes, I can say oh, it didn't work for this reason or whatever. This? There doesn't seem to be a clearly defined reason. Apart from the reason of BPD, but the BPD isn't in MY mind, so I can't make sense of it. In her mind it probably makes perfect sense.

I don't know what the hell to do. This would all be so much easier too if I didn't have to see her again. It feels like that's preventing me from healing. At times I think into the future; will she talk to me again? Etc. Sometimes I hope she will, then I realise that's five months away. She'll be well into any relationship by then.

She doesn't care about ignoring people either. She appears to feel no shame in avoiding people to their faces - if she doesn't talk to me it will cause so much pain in me, but she won't care.

This forum is the only place I can really come and speak about this without feeling judged. Don't know what I'd do without it

clvrnn. I’m sorry that you’re feeling this pain l know it. Many of us do. How can you move forward?

Hey. I really don't know how to move forward. I feel lost and stuck. I feel like a lost child, or something. I've never felt like this before. I have no idea how to move forward. With time it just seems to feel worse.

I understand what you’re going through. It ____ing hurts and you feel lost

What is one thing that you like to do?

One thing I'd like to do? I have no idea, anymore. I'm going to start going back to the gym next week, but that's as far as I've thought ahead. Truly I just wish I could forget about this situation. She's moved on, why can't I? I feel like there must be something deepy wrong with me, .

Ok. Man to man. What are you feeling,

Favorite movie. Mine is the Harry Potter series.

hi clvrnn,

You can move forward.    It isn't going to be easy.     Going to take some work and there will be bad days.    Let's not kid ourselves.   There are going to be bad days.

This is a process.    Grief is okay.   Feeling lost and stuck means there are some things you need to work on yet.   Doesn't mean anything is wrong with you.

When I met my partner I immediately and instinctively felt that she was going to be the one to ~save~ me.     And I allowed her to see more of me,   shared more with her,  took more of her thoughts and opinions on board then ever before in a relationship.   When she thought I was wonderful,   I truly felt wonderful; like the best person on earth.   Later when she thought I was horrible, I truly felt like the worst person on earth.    Can you say self esteem issues?   

I see my Ex a lot.    Some times several times a week.    We are both leaders in our community, often speaking or being in public places.     At first it was difficult.    Sometimes it still is.     Kind of depends what's going on with me how comfortable I am being in the same place at her.   

detaching is a process.     there are things that help with the detaching process.    Therapy if you can afford it.   Journaling.    The physical act of writing out our thoughts stirs neuro pathways in the brain in ways typing doesn't.   Exercise does help.  In two ways.   It releases stress.   Everyone I know is carrying too much stress right now.     and it provides us a way to achieve goals.    Achieving goals helps with self esteem.    Oh there is that self esteem thing again.

I did think this would be the relationship that would save me.    and strangely enough it has been the relationship that saved me.   Not in the sense that I fell through the looking glass and ended up in nirvana.    Since this relationship I have learned true compassion for others.    Since this relationship I have learned tons and tons of things about me.    How worthy of love I am.    How my brokenness is just like everyone else's.

detaching is a process.     one we are in charge of.    one we can empower ourselves through.      empower.     we can make the future what we want it to be.   

hope this helps
'ducks

Hi babyducks, thank you for responding in such great detail, I really appreciate it. Moving on from this seems to be so difficult, but I suppose you are right in that there will be good and bad days. Mostly I understand the concept of BPD but being on the receiving end of the behaviours is truly horrible and frustrating.

How did you/do you manage with seeing your ex so often? The thought of it is causing me a lot of pain. I wish I didn't ever have to see her again. I find that I am hoping she will talk to me, but then I don't know. It's not helping.

I have been doing a lot of journalling, just writing and getting my thoughts out. It does help even though I just write a lot of gibberish at times. Therapy is something I've tried but haven't been successful with as the 'good' therapists are very expensive. I've decided to allocate some money towards it at this stage though, and see how I get on.

Going to the gym used to be a passion of mine. I am just trying to finish this last round of uni assigments and then I will begin going every day, although I feel nervous about doing it because I've put on some weight and don't feel confident.

Today is proving to be a bit difficult. I feel very tense and tried to meditate which helped but I still feel overwhelming sadness - I read some of the DSM 5 and it says that those with BPD, when a relationship looks like it could work, they'll sabotage it. Which is what I think happened - things were going well between us, they'd levelled out and we didn't seem to be bickering or whatever as much. It was working.

I have to say that this emotional pain is one of the worst I've felt in a long time. If not ever. I can't even contact her because I've used up all my contact 'rights' I don't want people to call me a stalker or whatever. I wish I could tell her how I FEEL but she gets angry at any mention of feelings so I can't. I wish I could just turn my brain off and stop feeling like this for at least 1 day. And I don't even think she cares.

Hi clvrnn,

for me, this has been a process.    when she first ended the relationship things were just a mess of shame, blame, guilt and pain.     I was badly depressed.    She was in a maniac phase (bipolar).    almost to the day she ended things, my mother passed away.    in the space of 16 days I lost my partner, my mother and my house in the country.   ( I kept the condo in the city)    that amount of loss really knocked me on my butt.    for a while, several months I actively avoided her.    couldn't stand the idea of seeing her.    was afraid to see her.    I was a mess.

time passed and I moved out of the 'messy' period into what I would call the exploring period.   I was exploring, testing,  checking to see how I was,   what kind of junk I had to clean up.    essentially what was I going to become after this relationship.    that went really different then I thought it would go.     I had these preconceived notions in my head about how I was going to get over this, how long it would take.   and honestly almost none of them were accurate.     around this time she started showing up everywhere I went.    I mean everywhere I went.     it was just on the edge of stalking.   

to be honest I would rather not see her.    I don't like her behavior.    I don't approve of how she conducts herself.      if/when I see her,   I keep a distance.   she doesn't.  it's very subtle but she will end up sitting near me.    being in the aisle when I go for a drink of water.     no one else would notice,  just me because I am trying to keep a distance.    when I absolutely can't avoid it I say hi, or good night or what ever and keep on moving.   

here is what I think about seeing her.   I was afraid to see her because of the emotions it raised in me.    I had all sorts of emotions.    I was afraid to see her because I thought she was still going to hurt me.    I was afraid to see her because there was a good chance inappropriate drama was going to break out.   the first couple of times I saw her after my mother died was like getting punched in the gut.

what I came to learn was that keeping this rigid barrier between us, was like making a prison for me.   it was reinforcing the idea I couldn't handle myself, or my emotions.    certainly in the early days it would have been stupid of me to go anywhere near her because I was still very raw.   Now, I am not.    About a month ago I was out doing a work thing in public and she was there.   acting out.    lots of dysfunction.     you can imagine.    and I was uncomfortable.   I thought about it a little bit and then I got up and walked out.    I wasn't going to put myself through that.   

I don't know if this helps you at all but I guess I would say this has been a process.   I set a goal for where I wanted to be and worked towards it.     since she wasn't going to helpfully fall off the face of the earth,   I had to learn how to maneuver around her.

'ducks

   

Hi clvrnn,

Hopefully things get better for you! Keep your head up. I don't have much advice, but I'm about 3 months in to NC and also feeling a little lost. I'm not looking to minimize anyone's feelings, because I'm hurting myself. But laughing always helps me. I've recently had a good laugh (which made me feel a bit better) from these things:

1. Watched 500 days of summer
2. Listened to "Build me up buttercup"

It's not much.. but maybe these things will give you a little chuckle if you see the humor in them. I work through things best with humor, so this may or may not be of any value to you. Best of luck, clvrnn.

Dear Friend,
I know how you feel. I had spent my 21 year with a BPD partner and got divorced 2 years ago. And the good news is I've survived. It is very nice of you that you try to process what you've been through. You are kind of in a mourning process.  Please, give yourself some time. Nothing changes or heals immediately. After he left me, I felt guilty, insufficient and not loved. But as time passed, I began to realize that all the feelings that I'd been experiencing were about me, not him. And all the pain I'd been having was because of me as he wasn't in my life anymore. So I decided that I needed something new in my life.  I started to have a new hobby, which has effected how I live, how I feel, how I perceive myself and my life. I am a distance runner now, I join races, I meet new people, I exercise a lot. All of these have changed my life deeply. During this journey what I've learned is all we need is self-love and self-compassion. When we love ourselves, everything starts to change.

I had stopped checking my exes social media but today I did, for some reason. I looked at my ex's Spotify account and there is a playlist with a name - 'Dylan'. I didn't know she knew anyone called Dylan, so obviously, this is someone she is now involved with. She used to share music with me often. Dylan has his own playlist, now.

I feel sick, and I feel faint. I don't know what I am supposed to do. The pain was already unbearable most of the time, and now it has only really been confirmed that she is involved with someone else. This has led to me wanting to contact her and say something like "hope it works out" or telling her how hurt I am about her overall behaviour, but what's the point.

I don't know what to do now. I feel as if I've just been thrown away, and I haven't actually done anything in the first place to be broken up with and then ignored.

I didn't think things could feel worse, but here we are.

clvrnn,

This s*cks.

We deny that this is possible and we don't want to see or hear about it.

Don't deny your feeling here on this topic.

Looking into any social media will tell you what you are denying might be the case.

Sometimes knowing is better in the longrun, wondering for a while while suspecting could be worse, I don't know.

Whatever it is, it is...

Keep your head together and find a base within yourself.

I can see that sometimes it is better to know for certain, rather than have an ambiguous feeling about things. It hurts a lot, I thought that her and I had a genuine connection, but I know all about idealisation etc. I feel as if she won't do this to anyone else, just me. Someone commented and mentioned toxic shame and I do feel VERY worthless, even more so now.

I wish I had just stayed stronger and not looked, I actually hadn't checked for a whole week. Well. I don't know now. Nothing more I can do.

I know it's irrational but I do feel like contacting her and telling her how much all of her behaviour has hurt me, but I of course know that I'll be made to look like a stalker, etc. Especially as she has someone new.

I just don't understand why I was not good enough; and also, that break up she initiated wasn't even my fault, and it was ALL to do with her anger! So I have been put through all of this because of her problems. This isn't fair. I feel so hurt and angry.

clvrnn,

It's not fair, none of us are treated fairly as a standard with BPD.  We look for it, we need it, we hope for it, no.  That's empathy and it's barely there, if NPD is involved, not there.

You know full well this has nothing to do with you not being enough!  That is not what is going on here.

It seems to be that when they do meet someone else, they won't bother us and when that goes up the creek, they may circle back around.

You can't get the validation you need so badly, you may never.

You are enough.

Take a break, do you want to know more? No, leave it alone, you will torture yourself.

Describe what TOXIC SHAME means to you.

Any contact I have made has been polite, patient, I've never told her how much she's hurt me or whatever. Since finding out tonight that she is just seeing someone else and hasn't spared a thought for me, I really feel like just telling her exactly what I think about her and how she has treated me. I know this is a bad idea, yet I want to do it.

I have felt sick and faint ever since I found this out, and I don't know what to do. If I'm honest, I thought she would come back. I feel so stupid for believing that she actually gave a ___ about me.

I do think NPD is involved here with her. She seems to be particularly callous in her "discard" - while I'm not perfect, this has fit any pattern I've read about in any book or forum. A swift unexpected break up, silence, now someone else.

Toxic shame? I feel as if I am not good enough, that I caused this, that there is a severe defect within me that's caused this, that she will treat this person better (she's already made him his own playlist, she never did a thing like that for me!)

I don't want to know any more. I shouldn't have looked and I can't blame anyone for that, I didn't have to look. I don't think she will ever circle around to me, and part of me feels as if I could never trust a person like this.

It could be NPD or part of BPD.

Mine started seeing someone very quickly after throwing me out and having me back and forth while seeing someone else.

Don’t think for one second that this other person will have it any better than you. You want to think that and your mind wants to go there, it’s not true.

You know you didn’t cause this, right?

Callous, heartless, void of emotion, indifference.

I know there is a reason they do what they do in a clinical sense, it doesn’t matter, deal with your emotions in a healthy way, you have to soothe.

It’s sickening, it’s tragic, it hurts, it’s total betrayal and we can’t make it go away as quickly as we need to. They will float through life this way doing this to everyone.

I will say, better now than 5 years from now.

Hey there, clvrnn.

I really feel like just telling her exactly what I think about her and how she has treated me.

You could do this, or you couldn’t. I did this to S4’s mom and I felt worse after doing so. She came back at me with anger. She didn’t acknowledge her part in the failings of the relationship. It was all me. She said very hurtful things and used my childhood against me. Said I would always be alone and that the end of the relationship was 100% my fault.

You have a strong urge to tell your ex what she won’t accept. Take some pause here and ask yourself what is important to be accepted and by who when it comes to you and your well being. It’s hard to find reason with unreasonable people.

Hi JNChell,

Realistically, knowing her, she will either not respond or do what you've described above - just blame me for everything, accuse me of harassing her, be rude. Sometimes I think it's better to have this silent end as opposed to being told a whole load of horrible things about myself. The time I did confront her in the first break up all she did was say things like "nothing you do or say will change the way I behave" and blame me for getting involved with her, saying that I should accept responsibility for getting involved with someone I knew would hurt me. So it was even my fault for getting involved with her. No remorse for hurting me. So why would there suddenly be any now.

I don't feel any better within myself or about the situation, two months in. Some things I know haven't helped, like seeing her social media - I know that was self-inflicted and can't really blame anyone for that.

But I just feel probably at my lowest. I don't see the point in existing. I have tried everything, medication, no contact, keeping busy, talking to suicide helplines, talking to my friend. I don't feel better. I don't know what I am supposed to do anymore.

I want to tell her how I feel but she won't care. I will just be made out to be a crazy ex to everyone she knows. Sometimes I don't care about that perception and feel like calling her or going to her house, to get answers to why she could do this to me.

I feel sick when I think about this Dylan person, and how she must be living her life without a second thought for me at all, it makes me feel literally sick. All I can think of is that I didn't do a thing to cause any of this. I'm not saying I am perfect, but no, I didn't cause any of this.

Then I feel sick and upset at going back to university. I know she will ignore me, and I know my stupid feelings will start up again and want to talk to her despite all the terrible treatment she's put me through, and I'll just be upset all the time again. There seems no end to this horrible situation.

I feel stupid for posting here because I get some lovely advice and I really appreciate all of the support. I just don't feel any better at all. No day is better. Every day is the same, pain, sudden crying, pointless existing. I really question how much longer this is going to feel like this.

hi clvrnn,

I'm sorry things are so tough for you.    I hear you when you say no day is better.   Please don't give up on what you are doing,   keep taking the medication,   calling the hotlines, posting here, talking to friends.     It will start to help.

You've spent time in close proximity to some one with the traits and symptoms of a serious mental illness.    That tends to disorder reality.    Rebuilding reality is painful.     It's like recovering from a car accident.     but unlike recovering from a physical injury this is recovering from an emotional injury.    it takes baby steps at first.   

can you refresh my memory?   are you seeing a therapist?   

how's the weather where you are today?    could you get out to a favorite park,  someplace you enjoy?    I am hoping you can do something nice for yourself today.

take care.      hang in there.

'ducks

Hi clvmn,

I'm sorry to hear you are hurting, you are grieving and it is a process and it will take time. I like to share the information from this site because so many things here have helped me.  So I'd like to share a link with you about dealing with ruminations, there may be some ideas here that might be helpful to you.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=103396.0

Take Care,
Panda

clvrnn,

Ruminations are terrible and they just have a way of soaking into everything we are doing and thinking.  As you try to get distracted, think about other things little by little.  It will break in tiny pieces.  Try and sleep, try and eat, cry when it comes, be angry all you need to. I have been there and am there right now.

Take a long train ride to nowhere, take a car ride to a quiet place. Go somewhere alone you've never been and be distracted as much as possible.  Let the pain flow over you, it needs to, but let it flow, don't tread water in it.

Clearly, she was no good for you and it would not have gotten better, imagining it would is something we get stuck on.

It does get better so slowly you won't see or feel it so quickly, sometimes days later and it will come.  It happens with separation from her, physically and MENTALLY.

I know how hard it is and just sharing how it's working for me.

Going back to University...

You need to prepare how you want to feel prior to seeing her.  You know it will be upsetting, you have the opportunity to be stronger before that time.  This time is damaging, so damaging.  You lost yourself in the rs before, now you have yourself back, you'll see and open yourself up to it.

We have all imagined that the speech, the lecture, the note, the letter will finally get through to her and either she'll wake up and see all she'd done and become accountable for it all OR, she'll validate all your feelings in order to be fulfilled.

WRONG.

Don't or try not to project how she'll act or what she will think and say if you see her, that's on her and you have to remove yourself from how you'll feel, it creates the hamster wheel and you can't be on it anymore.

You know who and how you really are in this world, that was taken away from you for a while and you'll get it back, you are right now, it just doesn't feel that way.

If you let her have the power or control she has had, you won't have any for yourself...

You have been steadily and consistently damaged, the worst kind in my opinion, me too.

Realize that slow and steady damage/abuse has stopped, now catch up with you again because there is a you away from her and it's a better you.  That's a truth when you can't find truth anywhere else for now.

Hang in there, corny as it sounds, time and soothing/distracting things help.

She's not important anymore, who she's with will be abused like you were.  You are most important.

Hey, cleverin. Yes. That’s your moniker.   How are you feeling and how’s it going?

Hey, JNChell - thank you for checking in.

It's been a difficult few days, but I'm trying to do all the right things. I've been for my first therapy session, and once I finish these university assignments, I'll have more brain space to plan my life, .

Still struggling with all the same things I guess, but that's to be expected. Sometimes do still want to reach out, but the more time that passes lessens the chances of me doing so because I want to keep my last bit of dignity

I just want to say to all that have responded to this post I will reply to all your kind messages shortly, I'm not ignoring them 

Hey , clever. I’m watching “”Guardians of the Galaxy “. Not really because I’m typing. It’s a pretty good flick. Have you seen it?

I know how you are feeling. I’ve been there.  It’s brutal. You don’t know if the pain will ever end. Here’s one thing I do know, that I think it’s important to share with you.

It seems like you are really upset over the thought of her with someone else. This new victim she is communicating with, she will do the same thing to. She cannot pick and chose who she turns her personality disorder on for. It’s always on. It guides her thoughts and actions.

You could be the most amazing man on the planet (and most likely are amazing) and the outcome would have been the same.

It doesn't feel as if the pain will ever end, no. I feel like I'm going to feel like this forever.

I really am upset by that thought, yes. She would tell me that she never wanted a relationship, to be free to sleep with others (even though she confessed she was just telling me that and that she didn't actually want anyone else) even though we would act like a couple and well, in my mind we pretty much were one.

I feel like he is going to get all of everything now, all the commitment, relationship title, etc.

Of course. I do agree with you. She is who she is and she would always talk about how horrible she can be in a relationship, and that is one of the reasons she broke it off with me - because she hated being someone that was angry and anxious all the time. I guess she doesn't hate it that much.

But you are right. Even if they end up in a full relationship she will still be the same person. Still full of anger, still full of every other issue she showed me.

Ruminations are horrible, I agree. No matter what I do or where I go, the thoughts just persist. I'm sorry to hear you are also in the same situation, and I really appreciate you taking the time out to reply to these.



She wasn't good for me at all. The image I had of her before I got to know her is very different from the image I have of her now. I have had depression for years but it is only with her that I saw the development of anxiety and quite severe anxiety, at that. It feels really slow. Sometimes feels like it's going backwards.


It is going to be difficult. I already know that. In my mind I'd like to go back looking and feeling better - not just for her, but for my own confidence and happiness. I don't think she will talk to me, and that's going to be hard. Seeing her and knowing she's got a life going on that I know nothing about is going to hurt. Even if she tries to be friends with me and I'm still hurting, that will be painful too.


Yes, definitely. I did that the last time I sent her an email. I spent days writing that and making sure it was as considerate to her as I could make it, and still really explaining quite thoroughly how much I wanted to make things work. I just got no response, which is worse than if I'd gotten a response.

I know from experience that she will never feel bad. The first time she broke up with me and I told her how I felt about what she'd done - I called her emotionally insensitive, and she told me I was insulting her, and blocked me. I know we all experence things differently, but she was being insensitive and I don't think that was an insult - more of a firm criticism, if anything. So there's no point even trying to say anything. She will ignore me, insult me, or blame me.

Hello - thank you for taking the time out to reply. I'm going to have a look at this link, I think any help I can get is vital at this stage. Thank you.

There is another forum I have been visiting online which is for those people who have been or still are involved with someone who has BPD, and I won't name it but I find that sometimes it triggers very negative feelings and thoughts within me. It seems to be a lot of angry men, cursing their exes, using terms like 'discard' and if you bring up that your ex hasn't been in contact with you for a while - "you've been replaced!". That may be true in some instances, but I am finding that narrative to be a bit harmful to my own wellbeing, now.

I have found this website to be much softer, offering more of an individual, analytical and helpful look at relationships with pwBPD, and not just the same aggressive advice every time. I feel a lot safer here, to be honest.

For example, myself and my ex and our situation - quite complex, and she is someone that avoids relationships because she can't handle the feelings involved. She also uses avoidance as a tactic when things are overwhelming (she's told me this) and yes she can be abusive towards me - but these nuances in her behaviour are overlooked on that forum. I'm just told she's discarded me and is with someone else, which is why when I saw that playlist of hers I immediately assumed she is with someone else, with concrete conviction in mind.

The truth is that while she MIGHT be with someone else, that playlist doesn't offer me any real evidence to that. She might have just compiled a playlist for a friend, she might have compiled it for a partner, she might have even have made the name up and has placed it there so that I react to it (that is outlandish, I know!)

My friend thinks she has made it up, and that she wants me to react because she hasn't heard from me in a while. My friend doesn't say things to help me out and is a very no nonsense person, and is often right about situations like this, I do trust her opinions and ideas. I don't know if my ex would do that, but it would make a lot of sense.

I digress. My point is that my own anxiety is exacerbated by that other forum, and truthfully I do not know whether my ex is with someone else. Based on how she would speak about being involved with someone and how it makes her feel, mentally? It would surprise me if she is. I don't know. I don't think there was much of a point to this post.

I really appreciate everyone here. You do feel like a family. I'm sorry I haven't been offering much advice to anyone else. I am sending my laptop away for repair today so when it comes back I will post some replies on other threads and repay the help I've been given.

Clvrnn x

*mod*

This thread has reached its post limit and has been locked. Please feel free to continue the discussion in another thread, and thanks to all who participated.