BPDFamily.com

Part 2 is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=336148.0;all

Well, I saw her today but there was no “hello”. S4 was with me, and I’m not sure if I should ask her out in his presence. Anyway, we saw each other, but there were no words. God, I wish I had a healthy upbringing that taught me about confidence amongst many other things. My thoughts are turning over and over, of course. I’m not really afraid of rejection. I’m more afraid of making her uncomfortable if she’s not interested. I’m stuck in anticipation and I know that I need to resolve that. I’m also struggling with putting myself out there. No need to explain that. The thing is, this should be simple for me. Ask and deal with the response or outcome. Why is this so hard to do? When the opportunity presents itself I shy away from it. Maybe she’s shy like me. Maybe she’s interested but afraid to approach the situation like me. I don’t know her. Blah.

If you're waiting for her to make the first move, you could be waiting a long time.

Best to ask her out when you're by yourself.

You're out of practice and gunshy after what you've been through with your son's mother. Totally understandable.

Thanks, Cat. You’re right and I’ve always appreciated your pragmatism. I have S4 for an extended weekend for the upcoming Holiday. After that it’s time to  :cursing: or get off the pot. I need to put myself out there for the simple fact of knowing that I’m still capable of it. Don’t misunderstand, I am very attracted to this woman. I’m just frustrated that something that should be so simple has become this difficult.

Just make it low key. You’re stressing because you’re so attracted to her. Take one step at a time. Just think of having coffee with a peer—like a coworker or somebody who volunteers for a cause that you both work on. You’re just hanging out for a bit to enjoy each other’s company outside the confines of her work, and nothing more.

Now, things can possibly develop, but you don’t know that at this point. You’re just in to check out possibilities. And because there’s little risk, both in money and time, if it goes nowhere, then you make a clean exit and it’s not awkward when you see her at the store.

If there’s something there, you can ask her on a date. If you’re still unsure, make it a lunch date with an afternoon event—something casual that can allow you to go your separate ways before dark. Then, you can build from here, or not.

When you’re with her, ask her about herself—her family, her dreams, her plans. Something that turns off a lot of women is when men are just interested in them for their looks—it feels like just being a piece of meat. Granted it’s nice to feel attractive, but we want suitors to be curious about who we are, what we think, how we feel.

Thank you. I’m absolutely interested in her wants, hopes and dreams. I’m interested in getting to know her. I’ve always been interested in these things, but I’ve taken words at face value before. Things are different now. How about taking a walk together around town? I’m with you on an alcoholic drink. I don’t want that. Too risky.

You’re right. I’m just curious at this point. Right now, I just picture conversation.

As the man, you will likely have to be the one to ask her out. There are too many men out there who want a woman to ask them out because they don't really like the woman all that much and it takes them off the hook. I don't think you are one of those types, just saying some men are this way. I was telling a very wise man friend of mine recently, someone whose opinion I really respect, how a certain man has let me know I can ask him out, yet he is clearly not willing to ask me out. I am certain that this man views me as one of many women he wouldn't mind going out with until he finds someone he really wants to settle down with. My man friend agreed with me that it would be a good idea to forget this guy as my thinking is likely right on target.

Thanks, z. I understand that, and I want to be the one to ask. I’m a bit of a traditionalist. Don’t read too far into that. Chivalry. I believe a man should hold a door for a woman. I’ll put the brakes on philosophy there.

I think your friend is right. The man that you described has women in orbit. It’s like he’s flying multiple kites. Know what I’m saying? I had a close friend like this. Hence the word “had”.

It’s your call, but as a man I would suggest taking proper measures to distance yourself from the guy that wants YOU to ask him out. To you, what does a man wanting/manipulating a woman to ask him out tell you?

If he wants me to ask him out, it tells me that he wants control to leave when he wants to without any blame because it will be my fault for initiating the relationship. He is not willing to be vulnerable or take responsibility for his part in the relationship. I think I am only on his radar when he runs into me. I think he is deathly afraid of intimacy. I have seen several recycles with him. He gets close and then distances himself, and the cycle starts all over again.

As a fairly traditional man, it’s more than having a place to lay the blame. It’s most likely a pattern that you’ve described. It’s a pattern, z. Avoid it.

It's one thing to know and another to do it. For quite a while now I have been attracting people into my life  as friends that are able to have loving relationships and those that can't are wanting less of me. The market for men is pretty abysmal and there aren't that many men available that are able to have loving relationships as most of them are taken due to age. After the twenties, the people of both sexes that are available for relationships are not that healthy. I am way past the twenties in age. I find it best to accept that I may never have a relationship again and live my life to the fullest. This includes being the best person I can be and surrounding myself with like people, which could lead to having a loving relationship with a man or not. Certainly, I agree with you that I need to distance myself from those men that want to use me, because if I am spending my time with those types, even if it is just talking to them, I am sending the message that I do not value myself as somebody more deserving of a healthy relationship.

You know, I find the market pretty abysmal as well. I wonder what’s going on there. There’s a divide, but why? Nature is perfect. Women and men are supposed to be drawn to one another. I don’t knock or judge anyone that lives outside of those lines. I would like to challenge you on whether or not there are healthy people out there. There are people out there, age appropriate, that have gone through similar things. I imagine that they’re quite scared to try. They don’t have or even think about resources like this. Don’t give up, z. He’s out there.

Pro tip from a very shy person:

Any time you are feeling self conscious with someone and you don’t want to feel that way, pretend you are interviewing them.

We all have our favorite interviewers: Terry Gross (NPR), Howard Stern (when he’s not being disgusting), Larry King, Late Night TV hosts. They all have a great skill of drawing people out and getting them to talk freely about themselves with humor, compassion, and spontaneity.

When I worked as a reporter for alternative newspapers, I had no problem calling experts in a variety of fields and asking them very detailed questions about their work. (Of course I had done preparation work so that I knew a tiny bit about what I was asking.)  

And I didn’t have any problem interviewing people about what they’d seen, heard, experienced.

Then I’d go to a party and have to socialize with people I didn’t know and I’d feel petrified and terribly awkward.

Then it occurred to me, why don’t I use my interviewing skills with them? And it works great! I get them talking and I relax and soon I’ve forgotten about being shy and the conversation is flowing smoothly and easily.

Over the years, it’s become more second nature, however there are still times I find myself feeling that shy awkwardness and then I remind myself to just put on my reporter’s hat.

Sorry, I'm a little behind on responding to the earlier convo about the asking out thing...JNChell, Can you stop by the store at a different time of day (or during the week) when it's less busy? I understand it will need to be a day when you don't have your son. Then she won't be stressed by being busy and you can kind of read how she responds to you. Like Cat Familiar said, coffee is safe with no pressure, and if there's something there, you can pursue it. I like the daytime date idea.
CF, I like the interviewing tip. I was a very shy kid. I grew out of much of it, but sometimes it rears its head in new situations.
Zachira, I'm sure your experience dealing with this guy has been a little frustrating and discouraging. Sounds like you've been given some good advice on how to deal with him, which is great. Friends are so helpful to bounce ideas off of and for helping us to see things we may be blinded to.

Hey JNChell, You've received some great advice already from Cat, WoC and zachira, so I'll be brief.  I suggest you be your authentic self when you see your friend again.  Don't overthink it!  Suggest you strike up a casual conversation.  Maybe you've noticed something about her?  Maybe you have a question for her?  It's easy once you get the conversational ball rolling.

LJ

JNChell,

Man, woman, it doesn't matter, when you're attracted to someone, it creates a nervous feeling, nobody like rejection, anticipation of it makes it really tough.

Overthink it all you want or need, what's the worst that can happen.  The worst thing that is happening right now...overthinking.

It will be the great big buildup (now) to forgetting what the buildup was all about (after)...

Be yourself, be nervous you, strong you, whoever you know you are, just get past the anticipation.  I can appreciate your feelings, EVERY guy has been there.

You don't know her but I hope she's great, find out slowly.

You have a significant cheering section!