BPDFamily.com

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338144.0;all


So, we viewed a house together yesterday. She wasn't thrilled by it but said it would do. It's actually a great fit for both our needs apart from the kitchen being a bit small.

I said I was going to go for it, did she want to fill in an application too? She did, joylessly and we handed over our applications only to be told we would have to wait for all the viewings to finish and the landlord would decide who they liked best...bummer.

I offered to drop her off in town (where she's been many times before) so she could walk to the train station but she was aghast and said she would get lost. So I took her straight to the station. I couldn't find a parking spot so pulled in to drop her off. Once more she was aghast - she wanted me to walk her to the ticket office and then to the ticket barrier. She's 27, she's been to this station before, it's well signposted and all the platforms are together. I said I couldn't as I wasn't able to park and I was confident she'd be OK.

I got to work, late from dropping her off and received a long angry text about how there was no point her viewing the house as I'd made up my mind already. In the message she stated that things are always on my terms and she feels deflated, degraded, disrespected and unappreciated and her needs don't seem to matter to me. She had also bought a ticket and boarded a train to the wrong place and that was my fault too.

Once back in our hometown she started drinking. She'd not eaten much and it was a very hot day. I was at work and started getting increasingly long and accusatory text messages from her. As the day moved into evening and I got home from work she became VERY dysregulated.  :help:

The summary of her many messages is along the lines of...

• I don't care about her, her thoughts or feelings
  
• I think I'm always right and she's always wrong
  
  • The relationship is one-sided and she always makes sacrifices for me and I never make any for her
    
  • She's scared I'll abandon her if we move together because she doesn't trust me after I broke up with her
    
    • She feels a lot of shame
      
    
    She then became even more drunk and started implying that she was afraid of me. Then she implied that she was afraid of coming home to face physical and emotional abuse! I've never, EVER raised a finger to her other than to avert self-harm and suicide attempts. Occasionally we both playfight (tickling, arm wrestling etc.) usually at her instigation and one or both of us sometimes ends up with a bruise or scratch.
    
    I was absolutely shocked at her accusations. She's the one who's hit, throttled and shoved me! Thankfully she hasn't done this for over a year once I made it absolutely clear that one more incidence of such would lead to the end of our relationship.
    
    I'm also furious and offended at her implications of facing emotional abuse. She basically made it sound as though she was going to come home to a violent, angry monster. For once in my life I'm actually glad we have a housemate who knows that none of this is true!
    
    Because of what she'd implied and outright stated I didn't feel comfortable staying under the same roof. I told her this and said I would leave the house. And this is where I  :cursing: up because I really should have left and gone to sleep in my car.
    
    Instead, she retracted what she'd said and I offered her a lift home.
    
    I went to pick her up from where she was buying takeout and then got a text from her saying  she was s*** scared of leaving the takeout place and getting into the car for s*** to happen to her! I asked her to clarify (should have just driven away) and she said "I know you like to clarify on txt there's been no physical abuse but there's been many a time I've made excuses for my bruise. Please don't get angry at me for saying that" That morning she had pointed out the bruise and said she thought she'd gotten it at work and I'd suggested it might have been from when we were playfighting on the sofa. I feel absolutely sickened by her implications.
    
    Stupidly I let her in my car and drove us home in silence. She tried to talk about stuff and I just repeated that I wasn't going to discuss anything until the next day. When we got home she wouldn't come in the house. She used my earlier comment about not feeling OK to be under then same roof to justify this and said I'd told her she wasn't allowed in the house when I was so she was going to sleep in the garden. I told her that I had already clarified (probably about 5 times) that I had stated that because she was implying that I was a physical threat to her and that as she'd retracted that lie and as I was going straight to bed there was no chance either of us would be able to have any further hurt feelings. She insisted on sleeping in the garden so I went indoors and got ready for bed. I asked her one more time to come in and she wouldn't. I slept on the sofa and heard her come indoors around 3am when it started raining.
    
    This morning she's sticking by her claims of domestic violence and abuse against me. She's also refusing to go to couple's counselling but this seems like a minor issue right now. I clearly need to hightail it out of there. There's no way I want to be in a house with someone who would make such allegations against me.
    
    I'm absolutely shocked, horrified and scared of her and her twisted, distorted view of things. I've felt physically ill since last night and I'm shaking all over. My feelings towards her are cycling between disgust, fear, disappointment and anger and I don't know where to go from here.
    
    Generally my responses to her messages were to say that her feelings matter and I will think them over. That I am committed to the relationship and to her. That I love her and hope she'll come home and that I am shocked by what she's accusing me of and absolutely refute all allegations of DV on my part.
    
    I don't know if I should start a new thread either. This is a pretty major dysregulation for her and she's *never* accused me of DV before  :help:
    

Here is my take.

You are beginning to offer some healthier responses.  She is "stepping up her game" to get you to (bring the old you) back.

She is have some success.


What if you had let her sort out her drunken behavior herself...and skipped all the other?

What would your life/relationship be like now?

I'm suggesting that you letting her know once..or perhaps twice that you hear her is appropriate.  Then go on about your business.

So...that's hat I think happened and how you can think about next time.

Still..what do you do now?  If you apply the same principle...where does that take you?

Sorry you experienced that.  I hope you can reflect on where you did and didn't have choice. 

Best,

Thanks for your super-fast reply.

I agree, she's escalating but I'm not sure it's to a level I can tolerate. The allegations of DV are...I can't even find the words...I kind of despise her right now.

I should have left her in town. She tugged on my heart strings before I offered her a ride home and I lost myself for a while there and reverted to form. I'm in a bit of a shame spiral about it because I feel like I've really let myself down.


If I'd left her she probably would have slept rough, maybe been OK or maybe she might have been attacked or assaulted. The next day I would have been worse than Hitler for not rescuing her and I'd never hear the last of it. It's hard but in my heart I know that I should have let her make her own decisions and suffer the consequences of them. She's an adult, she has money, it's only a 45 minute walk home, there were buses and taxis. If she chooses to get drunk and endanger herself then it's up to her. I guess I'm just not quite there with making that call yet.

I'd still be dealing with the fallout of her accusations of DV though. That bell can't be un-rung for me and right now I'm not sure what to do about it or what my options are other than to flee. Applying the principle of just not responding or reacting to her allegations of DV doesn't sit well with me...I certainly can't acknowledge them in any way that validates something so untrue.

In the past hour she's also been using her knowledge of my FOO's mental health problems to imply that I'm schizophrenic, bipolar or a psychopath. I'd laugh but it's actually really hurtful, mental illness has plagued my family and myself and my brother have witnessed the devastation it has wreaked on our lives. We're also quietly concerned that one day we may develop some kind of mental illness like my mum and grandma so she's cutting straight to another one of my deepest fears and she knows it.

I also think she's pushing me to literal breaking point to see if I'll break up with her, another stupid test. My concern there is what message do I send her if I don't break up with someone who accuses me of DV?

When reflecting on your post I started off by thinking I had no experience in the field of DV false allegations... but I massively do. The divorce petition clearly states that I have been emotionally and verbally abusive to my W and kids for 21years, and that wasn't the first time I was accused of abuse, it's been constant.  

This is tricky water as you clearly know. Needless to say, this is either going to go away (for now) in a poof moment of magic... or... her feelings of abuse will linger. If she finds the wrong person to 'share' this information with, someone who doesn't understand fully the disorder, things can escalate as that person may well validate the invalid (my personal experience).

I am personally concerned about the worst case scenario and how to protect yourself from this (the other scenario is less threatening)... I'm referring to your legal safety. I think you are very right to be shaken to the core about these allegations and you have rightly put in place distance boundaries in the hope that no further mock evidence is accumulated.  My thoughts are, have you done enough here? My gut instinct is to have an informal meeting with the police to create a soft record of these accusations, they can make a record of your whatsap and text conversation and have a record of you raising their concerns. I would guess that they would have mandatory reporting requirements and would be forced to investigate (as would your therapist/couple counsellor).

The question would then be asked, why are you still with this woman especially if this becomes one of many accusations.

Enabler

I will let Enabler focus on the DV/false accusation aspect.  That's very important.

I wanted to point out an important  thing for you and any others that are reading


So...this is called Invalidating

It's a very powerful tool. 

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Instead of helping your pwBPD move towards "center"..the invalidation likely added fuel to her fire.

Can you read the article and then put in your own words "how" or "why" what was said to her was invalidating?

Best,

FF

She’s falsely accused you of domestic violence, you’re afraid of what she might do, the roommate that you’d hoped to get away from now is seen as someone who could validate the truth.

What net positives does this relationship provide for you? Does it feel possible to safely live with her?

Hello, sorry I've been "off grid". I've fled to my mum's and it's taken me most of the day to get the WiFi password and then I couldn't remember my password for this site!

FF, yes I do see that was invalidating. It was like telling a child who said they felt hungry that they didn't feel hungry because they'd just eaten. It negated her feelings which were facts to her at the time and told her she was wrong.

It did occur very late on in the night and she'd already been making DV accusations well before it. I don't really think her actions worsened much, if at all following it, probably because she was so very drunk and dysregulated already. I have apologised for it...I hope I did an OK job of validating this time...better late than never I guess...


I've trawled through the rest of the messages over and over. I think I did a fairly OK job of not massively JADEing or invalidating considering how "off centre" I felt at the time owing to the sheer horror of what she was saying.

Some not great things I said were...

"You cannot verbally attack, disparage, insult, degrade and make outrageous insinuations about me and expect an apology from me or for me to want to run into your arms or vice versa"

"As you acknowledged that I'm not physically a threat to you and I do not wish to discuss anything with you this evening I see no reason why you would not return home"

"you don't need to sleep on the street, please come home"

Most of these were towards the latter end of 12 hours of relentless dysregulation and it was two hours past my bedtime. I should have closed discussions and left her to sleep rough if she chose to hours prior to this. My main error seems to have been to fly in to a bit of a panic and defend my character against potentially criminal allegations.

Just so you know..it's a generally accepted "rule" that invalidation is much more powerful than validation. 

As a rough example, I often allege that 1 invalidation is equal to 10 validations.  The point of this is that invalidation is a very powerful thing.

In my relationship, once I identified it and removed it, most of the paranoia disappeared.

Another way of looking at invalidation is that it "fuels the fire" or "feeds the monster".  Where as most people describe validation as "oil that makes things run more smoothly".

So..given all that.  If you were forced to focus on being less invalidating...or more validating..which would you pick..and why?

Best,

FF

To answer Enabler and Catfamiliar. I've been asking myself so many questions about the relationship over the past 48 hours.

I actually went to our couple's counselling session on my own. I called the counsellor to let him know she was refusing to attend and he said he'd actually been hoping I might consider individual sessions focusing on me and what my thoughts regarding my past and present relationships were and what my take on the reciprocal nature of my present relationship was.

It was a really useful session. We dug into why I felt as though I needed to perpetuate a relationship that was so clearly one-sided even to someone who had only seen us for one session. We touched on her total lack of empathy and how it seemed to be mainly me that was giving and her that was taking. He'd also observed how she took no responsibility for her thoughts, feelings and actions and expected me to shoulder it all for her.

Mainly my reasons boiled down to fear. Fear of feeling like I'd failed by ending the relationship, fear of being alone, fear of her committing suicide, fear of her disparaging me to her friends and family, fear of missing out on the relationship I'd always dreamed of and fear of walking away from the future we'd planned together.

I also still have crippling low self-esteem and self worth that I am very effective at masking but it's still there. I feel bound my my obligations. I feel obligated to not be "airy fairy" and break my commitment to giving things a decent, proper go. I feel obligated to her family and friends to be there for her and rescue her.

None of these are good reasons to stay in this relationship, none of them will benefit me or the relationship in the long term.

Right now I don't even feel like I want to be physically anywhere near her. She's been messaging me all day begging me to come home and stop abusing her by abandoning her and leaving her in suspense. Apparently, if I cared about the relationship at all I'd come home, give her a big hug and be "nicer" to her and go back to being the person I was before (who she describes as the lesser of two evils!).

Meanwhile I've got stuff like this going round my head from the other night...


I really think this has to be the end of the relationship. Why would I continue anything with someone that viewed me that way even though I know it's all lies, distortions and projection she truly believes it I think. It's so messed up. I don't even feel safe being around her unless there are witnesses or we're in public!

Very proud of you for doing this!  A wise move.

When is your next appointment?

Best,

FF

In short I suppose focusing on not invaliding because it's 10x more effective than validating.

I'm sorry to be curt, I know I'm making myself a victim and I shouldn't. I can't do this. I'm not strong enough or good enough or patient enough or calm enough. I honestly can't imagine a scenario where I'm accused of something like this and would just calmly process it and make sure I put my uBPDgf's feeling above my own AS USUAL and made sure I didn't invalidate her and maybe even managed to validate her feelings.

That's probably why I'm focusing on what I could have done to nip the whole thing in the bud early on and shut it all down so it didn't escalate. I know that I did the best I could at the time and I can see that I was really trying even if it wasn't perfect. She was always going to get smashed, she has a drinking problem, is probably an alcoholic and when she drinks she gets nasty, cruel and/or violent. I KNOW this and should have just left her to it and taken care of myself.

Not for a while now, he's going on his summer holiday today and won'be back till September. I think realistically I should just find a counsellor closer to where I'm moving house. It's a shame because I got on well with this one and he seemed incredibly astute.

A bit of a departure from this thread...but I would encourage you to stick with someone you have a rapport with.

Sure..I hope you find someone closer that is just as good.  However...given the options of close or rapport...I would suggest rapport every time.

Best,

FF

Hiya, sounds like you’ve done a decent amount of thought work in the last few days. Good for you. Great you’ve got some distance and even better you saw the counsellor on your own. That kind of impression in 1 session is pretty acute and the T made some clear observations.

Reading that message from your GF, that’s very specific and very cutting. It’s accusing you of many many things, the whole gambit not just hitting her. Weird.

If life without your GF = you being at a 0 (let’s say that’s pretty rubbish place, your worst fears)

Where do you feel you are now on a scale of -2 to +2? Where are most days with GF?

How long until you move into the new place? Would that work on your own? I think you suggested it would. Flat mates are easy to find.

Enabler

Hello, been a really busy week looking at houses. I've applied for quite a few but haven't gotten any and now we've only got a couple of weeks before we have to move...the pressure's on!

When I looked over her messages, other than her "kitchen sink" accusations of everything under the sun there was a lot of this type of thing...


So, she was really drunk and dysregulated. I think she's also really afraid of moving in together and afraid of leaving her comfy rut. She's unsettled and distrustful because I broke up with her once (even though she broke up with me about 10 times prior). I think she's pushing me away and testing me in every way she can.

I came home on Tuesday night. She'd been begging me to come home all weekend but I didn't feel ready. I didn't want to be around her or see her. She'd assumed I was going to leave her but was also upset that I hadn't complied with her requests to come home earlier. I don't think she could see that I'd left for my own safety and sanity, could only see that it upset her.

Hmmm...if life without her is a 0...the night after her drunken accusations was a -2. There are some days that are a nice +1 and bits of the days are sometimes even a +2. I'd say the average is usually around +0.25...barely better than being broken up.

I could move somewhere on my own but that would be the end of the RS. She wouldn't take that act of abandonment lightly, despite her repeatedly mentioning it. I could live on my own but there's no way she could afford to. I'm just trying to find places that would suit us both and applying for them. I involve her if she's willing to have a calm, adult conversation but if the raging starts or she starts throwing stupid roadblocks in the way (I don't like that house, it has scary wallpaper, no, even if we painted over it I couldn't live there) I just exit the conversation as politely as possible and continue the application on my own. I've never known anything like this housing market. For every house I seem to be in direct competition with 8-10 other people, it's crazy!

Hey..."stinkin thinkin" alert.   I could see how moving to different houses would be a plus.  The "only" thing that would tie you together is your relationship.  Isn't that a good thing?  No other "issues".

Best,

FF

Sorry I've been AWOL for a bit. I've had so much to do.

I'm 95% sure we've got a house but haven't signed the contract yet so I'm not counting my chickens!

Yeah FF it is stinking thinking...I just know that from her perspective living together is a major foundation of a RS, and from my perspective too to be honest.

By basically telling her she was not welcome to live in my home under my roof it would be interpreted as a break-up for her and I really don't think she could cope with the rejection.

Of course I see that I'm making it about her feelings and that's not ideal but this is a woman who can't even bear me sleeping on the couch when she's upset me! Last time I found all my possessions thrown out of the bedroom because in her mind I'd abandoned her and gone to the couch to manipulate and hurt her. The reality was that she'd come to bed after me, had woken me up and started listing all her grievances against me. I asked her three times to let me sleep and we'd discuss it the next day when I could process what she was saying better but she carried on so I went downstairs to sleep as I had an early start the next day.

I'm really torn about whether I'm doing the right thing moving in with her again. My head mostly says no, even quite a bit of my heart says no. I don't know what I'm doing.

Unfortunately the situation has now stirred up a hornets nest with my FOO also. My brother had said he'd help me move house this weekend but called last Friday to say that he couldn't help me move because he didn't approve of me moving in with my partner.

I felt disappointed and also weirdly guilty, probably because a considerable part of me agrees with him, I really didn't need the additional stress of being left short-handed. I called my dad (who lives with my step-brother and step-mother) and asked how my step-brother was doing and whether he thought he might be able to give me a hand for a bit of cash? He's recently had some major struggles with depression which have made him unreliable so I didn't want him to feel under pressure to say yes to me but then not turn up on the day! My dad couldn't understand why my brother wasn't going to help any more so I explained the situation but asked him not to get involved, that my brother had set a boundary and I respected it but that if he knew anyone that might be able to lend me a hand on Saturday could he let me know? Unfortunately my dad ignored this request and told my step-mother who immediately waded in and messaged my brother, who was then upset that she was involved. Now my brother isn't speaking to me or my dad because he feels attacked my my step-mother...sigh it's the Karpman triangle isn't it?

It's ultimately your decision. 

I would advise that you and only you sign the lease.  I would guess less drama if you need to kick her out.

What are you going to do differently if you guys live together again?

What has she promised to do differently?

Best,

FF

Yes it is but I'm not sure it's of your own doing. It's good that you had some respect for your brothers boundary, like you, all he can do is look out for how he enables a situation he feels is unhealthy... and he has.

So, what is the part of you that does think this is a good idea say when it's overriding the 51%+ of your head that thinks moving in with your GF isn't a good idea? I get that it's tough to make a qualitative or quantitative comparison between rational reasons and emotional reasoning.

Well done for taking yourself out the situation in the bedroom last night, other than leaving the house I'm not sure what else you could have done. How was your GF this morning? If she was calm I wonder if you were able to ask her to put your things back where she found them.

Enabler

That's not possible in the UK. If we both live there we both have to sign the tenancy agreement.

I don't know if I'd have to kick her out...if she left she'd still be liable for rent and if I left so would I. It's a concern if we end up in a situation where I really don't want to live there but she refuses to leave. I guess we'd just have to be miserable together for 12 months! Good job it's a 2 bed!

For me, I guess I continue to work on communicating; less invalidation, better boundaries, counselling, detaching and not letting her drag me around on her emotional rollercoaster.

For her, well, she's made no promises, admits no wrongdoing. Acts like I'm the only one ever at fault. There's no limit to her lack of self-awareness it seems. I don't have any expectations she'll change fundamentally. It will be interesting to see what she's like when she's working full-time and has to grow up a bit in that regard. She's allegedly going to ask the new GP to refer her for counselling once we move but we'll see. No guarantees there either.

I think my motivation is mainly sentiment. I care about her, when things are good they are great. I look at her when she's smiling or sleeping or laughing and I feel a stirring of affection and love.

I also think I'm afraid, it'll be expensive on my own. I'll get lonely, I'll get jealous seeing her with other people and my feelings of inadequacy will multiply.

One thing I'm realising is that emotionally I'm numb. I sometimes feel strong emotion but rarely and that's mainly anger or frustration. I don't seem to feel as deeply or as much as I used to about most things and that frightens me.


I've gotta hold my hands up here. I came upstairs and found all my stuff strewn all over the floor and got really cross. I opened the bedroom door and put all my stuff back myself. Then I called her an a$$hole and left.

You understand this increased the likelihood she will do this again.

Said another way..you "fed the monster".  She got a payoff. 

Did she get "consequences"?

Let's switch gears. 

Why do you think your brother won't support this?  Does your brother have your best interests at heart?

If you could get him to listen to you for a few minutes.  What few sentences could you give him (us) that would change his mind?

Best,

FF

Not to detract from FF's question which is important.

Paying the rent on your own will take up more of your income, however, have you worked out how much of your income goes to support your GF at the moment in all sorts of forms, like takeaways. You could also get a lodger, depending on where you are in the UK there's a lot of people who just want a room for 5 days a week.

Enabler

No, no consequences, I know my reaction was a bad one. I should have stayed calm. I was at a loss as to what consequences I could give without turning the whole thing into a petty tit for tat. Now when I leave the bed to sleep downstairs I know she'll chuck out my stuff and I'll have to not lose my cool, rather, as enabler suggests, see if she'll rectify the situation when she's calmer. I think it's unlikely though as she doesn't even agree that she was in the wrong stopping me sleeping. In her opinion I had upset her earlier that evening (I talked about fish for my aquarium in the new house...she does not remember us agreeing that I'd be resurrecting my aquarium) so by not letting her talk I was censoring her.


He's definitely doing it from a place of caring. It upsets him to see that I'm not in a healthy relationship and he thinks I deserve better.

I guess I'd say that I know the RS isn't healthy. That I'd want better for him too if our situation was reversed. But that I'm just not ready to walk away yet. I may be close but I don't think that I've given it enough of a chance to see if I can carve out happiness for myself within the relationship. I don't feel like I've given the boundaries I've set long enough to "bed in" or for my partner to adjust to them. That I won't continue this situation indefinitely but that I'm just not willing or able to walk away right now.

She doesn't cost me a huge amount more day to day. She mainly pays her own way but is running out of savings fast. She has a love of exotic holidays and day trips. Early in the RS this was expensive for me too as I felt like I had to accompany her everywhere but I don't do this any more. I still do things with her but if I don't want to spend the money on a fancy restaurant or a day trip I'll just tell her I don't want to spend the money and perhaps she should take a friend instead?

I won't take in a lodger. There's loads of reasons but I'm just not comfortable with it. I'd rather be poor or get a second job.

The money isn't my main consideration TBF.

If you could push a big red button right now and you’d be in a new relationship with a different person who loved and cared for you in a mutual symbiotic relationship,  your GF was safe and maybe ‘happy’ but either way not bothering you, you’re in a new home of your own which you could afford in a pleasant area, all your friends and family have been told and cool with it... would you press the button?

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