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I wanted to create a new thread from my previous to discuss this particular issue that is bothering me. I need to work on providing my own validation but I would really like some comments from others. I wanted to show a message I sent a month ago that led to my ex completely exploding on me and ask how that message below could possibly lead to these nasty remarks from her a day later. This is what finally woke me up to stop tying to contact her as it is hopeless and just makes me more confused. Have you seen this before? Am I out of line or is she delusion and projecting false accusations on me? It was bad enough to lose the woman I loved but now she is calling me all these slanderous things and making out to be the bad guy. I know I should not have chased her for closure or a second chance but she left me with a text and silence and I lost 40 pounds from my body going into shock and I couldn't stop reaching out. I was by no means ever doing what she is saying I did below. Please read my message and let me know if it in anyway deserves her reaction.

Her comments:
"Your justification for things is completely inaccurate and fabricated and to the point of psychological manipulation (the professional term is called gaslighting)!  I feel you are now to the point of being verbally abusive, a threat and stalker and causing great discomfort (which is also a form of abuse of power)!"

This is my message the day before that led to that outburst.
"Yesterday I thought of the conversation you had with my mom about how relationships are hard work. We were making plans together right up until things blew up so I didn't see it coming. With your compassion for others and how religion is high on forgiveness and second chances I am stuck trying to think what I could have done to make you leave me without a conversation in person or on the phone. I don't blame you at all, you leaving woke me up that there was work to be done to better myself, but I see no reason why we could not have talked again to see if we could build a stronger bond. We had one disagreement in 4 months that's a pretty healthy relationship. I broke down when you left and chased you further away because I was attached to you, I felt safe with you and I trusted you. You are the first woman who let me spend Christmas with her family and the first to tell me she thought she was pregnant. I intended to spend the rest of my life supporting you. I can't take my mistakes back until I find that time machine and stop myself from sending you that text which is one of the greatest regrets of my life.
I get paid to fix mistakes. I improve my weaknesses, that's actually one of my strengths. I wanted you to at least know about the improvements I  made. If I refused to watch the news when you asked then you should leave but I fixed that immediately. I wanted to go on road trips and plane trips anywhere with you. My dream is to travel with the woman I care about. It's what I have been waiting for and when I found it with you we didn't get to do it. You were unhappy with me for not going enough places and i wanted to take you places. Tragic miscommunication! It was truly magical when you were in my arms and how I could give you goosebumps with just one kiss on the neck. I couldn't walk away from you in silence. There is research on how the brain is overdosed with chemicals when facing the loss of someone you love and I was not strong enough to stay calm and give you space to rethink your decision, I panicked.
If you saw me we don't have to talk about the bad feelings of the past, just get to know each other again like when we first met. We had a rare connection together. I've dated enough to know when I found someone special. I will accept whatever plan the universe has for us but we need to at least make the effort to see each other in person. I hope that helped explain why I have been slow to move on from you. You have always been more than just another woman I dated for awhile."

It isn't Gaslighting and she has a fundamental misunderstanding of the word... but it is very JADEing.

Her original reasoning for splitting with you was not rational. Do you think that by providing rational thought in argument against her irrational feelings is going to make her come to the conclusion she is wrong (whole person) and you are right?

She wants you to back off and leave her be, I think you should do this and respect her request even though you disagree with her reasoning and want to explain, even if you see a lack of integrity between her apparent Christian values and her treatment of you. Sadly people are allowed to be confusing and not give you answers.

I know it's tough but explaining and reasoning with her is likely to make her entrench further.

Enabler

Hi Seekinganswers,

I agree with Enabler that you’re response is very JADEy and her response is negative I can’t see anything to validate. The best thing to do is give her lots of space if she sees or talks to you and it only conjures negative feelings you have to wait until she loses those negative thoughts about you.

With a pwBPD it’s called splitting but don’t add to it in your case. Give her space until the negative thoughts that she has about you are gone and wait until she has positive thoughts about you and even then I wouldn’t bring up the past. Keep things light you can send her a meme or something, just keep it light without any seriousness.

I’m saying this in the context that you’re trying to talk to her, I wouldn’t use it as a chance to talk to her about the r/s. You sound like you’re attached to her, what’ is your goal?

My goal from day one since she left was that I wanted us to talk before breaking up and at least make an effort instead of throwing me away like I meant nothing. She left me with a text message right after we celebrated Christmas together when I did nothing wrong and refused to speak to me. My family has used her funeral home business for 15 years and my mom has to go somewhere else now when the time comes. I told her that we need to at least be on friendly terms because of this and she ignored me. My dad was buried through her business. I texted her on the anniversary of his death asking her to please stop being on bad terms with me and she ignored me. Then she starts calling me threatening and a liar and accuses me of stalking when I saw her 2 times in 6 months at the gym. She says her opinion of me has completely changed because I would not leave her alone,. She would not talk to me since the day she left so her opinion of me was not too great to begin with obviously. Then she finally gives me a reason for leaving and says we have nothing in common and she was bored. This is ludicrous and I might have been better off with no explanation. She complimented me on the things we had in common at the beginning. We made new plans to do 7 things the week before she blindsided me. So either I never talk to her again and lose her forever or I get slandered and confused by delusional statements when I contact her and lose her forever. She talked to me every single day for 4 months and then cut me off by blindsiding me with a text 30 minutes before we were supposed to go shopping and my world has been upside down ever since. 8 months later and I still hurt every day. I was loyal, kind and honest to her from day one and she hates me. It's not rational and still feels like a nightmare.

Thank you. Mutt. What do you mean by you can't see anything to validate? Can you see how the polite messages I'm sending trying to get her to talk to me should have incurred her calling me threat, stalker, verbally abusive and causing great discomfort or is that just the splitting and emotional dsyregulation rationalizing things to her feelings?

I completely understand what you are trying to convey to your ex I think that enabler can probably relate with your situation as well. It's hard to put into words the frustration that you feel over the course of a r/s with a pwBPD when you are trying to talk reason into your pwBPD and they get defensive, bring things up from the past, accuse you of the very actions that they are doing or bringing up something that you did that is completely unrelated with the situation at hand.

It's a depressing and lonely feeling as time goes on in your relationship and you feel like you are trying come up with constructive ways to mend the r/s etc and the other person is not interested in being constructive in fact they continue to be destructive in the r/s. It doesn't make sense why someone is not interested in repairing the r/s.

It's a pretty lonely feeling when you have given everything that you have and nothing seems to improve.


I'm sorry that I didn't explain here what I mean by there is nothing to validate is that it's all negative she's trying to bait you to sooth her feelings. As you probably already know a part of BPD is emotional dysregulation an inability to self sooth, dysregulation is like turning up your feelings 2000% and you're emotionally flooded and have an inability to be able to use the logical part of your brain because your brain is over saturated with emotions - in this state we can't convey our message across to our you should wait until she returns to her emotional baseline of happiness but say it in a way that a pwBPD would understand.

The problem is that there is nothing to wait for. I tried not talking to her for almost 2 months and heard nothing so then I sent her a few messages and that was when the call the police stuff for being a stalker started. So even writing her one more time could end up with her pulling a stunt like that which I want nothing to do with.

Unfortunately reasoning with someone with BPD just doesn't happen.  My ex planned the end of the relationship for 6 months apparent and took a 10 day trip to see if he could be alone.  That trip at the time I was told was to sort out what he was going to do with his career.  For 6 months I asked if we were ok and was told yes it was just the career.  He told him family two months prior to telling me he was filing for divorce.  The night he finally told me in January there was no real reason given and no discussion it was done.  I have spent months in counseling trying to sort through 8+ years of my life and still can't make sense out of it.  Basically you were wanting something that is opposite of many BPD discards ... she probably had some reason for thinking you were going to abandon her, you were hurting her or she was hurting you.  She saw ending the relationship was the only option and there was no need for discussion. 

I just found out from a friend that I met through my ex the things he was told before meeting me.  During our first Christmas together which was so important to my ex we had a Christmas party with his friends.  My now friend told me before meeting me my ex had prepared him to meet me.  He was told by my ex that I was extremely manipulating, controlling and a monster.  My now friend told me he was so reluctant to attend the party because he didn't think it would be any fun due to the tension.  About half of the people invited who said they would come did not show up and I guess I know why now.   My now friend told me once he met me he came quickly to realize everything he was told was false.  This was a magically Christmas for my ex and I, however in the background he was making me into this terrible person.  That Christmas it never made any sense about the odd things I noticed until now.  You mostly did do nothing wrong at Christmas however something got twisted in her mind that justified the silent treatment.  It is possible she was also covering up something she did and blowing things up to coverup what she did from you ... mine did that many times.  The Silent Treatment is a way to manipulate and control along with being mentally abusive.  They love it when you accept blame for things even when you did something wrong.   I used to have to apologize first to break the silent treatments and most of the time it was me apologizing for bringing up something he had done.  I was in the wrong for having an issue for something he had done that he shouldn't have.  I was manipulating apparently to because anything he did was supposed to be ok.

Your best bet which is what I am doing is just leaving things alone now.  My ex knows if he wants to reach out he can however I am not even trying anymore.  A big part of me thinks I won't hear from him because I now have seen behind his mask however there is this part of me knowing he recycles that feels he will be coming back.  Maybe he will come back and maybe he won't.  If he does then I am now better armed to deal with him.  Right now focus on yourself and learn as much as you can.  Arm yourself so you know how to better deal with her.  Someone in a support group on Facebook mentioned using Gray Rocking which is usually a tactic used with narcissists however now I can see where it would work with someone with BPD. 
 
We are all human being with flaws.  You were idealized and put on a pedestal and for whatever reason you fell off the pedestal.  That pedestal was never one other than God could stand on and not fall off.   She is splitting you white (valuing) and splitting you black (devaluing) over and over again.  All you can do if you want her back in your life is to step back and wait for her to reach back out when splitting you white.  If she is splitting you black at a point in time you are likely to push her further away by trying to reason with her.   Just realize if she doesn't come back it maybe in your best interest and provide the opportunity to find someone new that would be better for you.  It isn't hard however sometimes you have to accept them leaving is a blessing.

Thank you Jericho. So you think that's what happened I got split black? Every single thing I read and all my friends say there is no way she is not NPD, BPD or both but I still have doubts every day for some reason. However I did nothing wrong at all and she turned from intense idealization to devaluation and discard so suddenly that I don't think that is normally encountered in a relationship. I certainly hope not anyways.

When she was drunk she made comments about needing to break up first and can't be broken up with, she pushes people away and if someone hurts her she has to hurt them worse so that all fits BPD. Her constant contraditcions and seemingly lack of identity are also big clues. Then after discard she created a new reality and I was a liar and threatening when I have never done those things. She was not able to apologize or take accountability for anything it was all my fault. So BPD fits really well, I just have trouble accepting it for some strange reason.

Gaslighting isn't a professional term, it's pop psychology. Most of the dysfunctional behaviors of a pwBPD are survival mechanisms rather than conscious, cold, calculated and insidious manipulations which is what gaslighting is. Funny that she would accuse you of this.  I don't even see a hint of it in your message.


That is because a person with traits of BPD feel core shame, in that they are unworthy of being loved.  While in a relationship, there is a constant need for the other partner to validate the other's self worth, in order to relieve the anxiety which is driven by those core emotions.

I once sent a similar, though shorter, email to my ex while she was still living with me and the kids.  It may have been similarly JADEy. I was trying to analyze and fix and I admitted to my own faults.  Her response was basically to state that I lacked character, and that she, as a woman of character, needed a real man to lead her and guide her and in that I failed.

I thereafter kept communication BIFF (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) in order to work out our child custody arrangement and to get her out of my  :cursing: house with minimal drama. 

I wasn't going to change her worldview, and the tactical responses were driven by that worldview, which was driven by how she viewed herself.  No one can change that about us, as our views of others are influenced by how we each view ourselves. 

It’s not about how logical or reasonable or loving the message you are send feels to you it is about how they perceive it.

I read an article written by a girl with BPD. She said when she was in dysregulation no amount of soothing words from her SO would help. No matter how sweet or understanding or supportive the words were. She said it was like someone was feeding her a piece of beautiful pie that she knew was infested with worms and they just kept telling her to eat it.

So its not the message you send its the message they receive that matters...

hi seekinganswers,

what would you have liked to hear from her? what would have been the ideal response you were hoping for?

The ideal would be she would agree to see me for a drink or to go to the batting cages or a walk and we could just catch up and she would allow me a chance to show her I can watch the news and improve whatever led her to leave me. Worst case have a healthy mature conversation and depart on friendly terms instead of the pain and confusion and threats of police she has left me with.

I'm sorry you're having difficult times. I'm not nearly as educated on BPD terminology but what I can say from experience is that once you're turned into the bad guy, you're dead to them.

What you want at this point, no matter how rational or reasonable it is, won't happen.

My advice is to back off before you "poke the bear" too much and the police are called.

This is one of the main problems with BPD. They get you hooked and then turn against you...just at your weakest moment.

It's time to take care of yourself and go silent. Maybe in time, you'll be back on her good side but now isn't the time.

Saw her at the gym a few days ago and stayed away. She had a look of shock when she saw me on the way out. I was actually surprised to see that she had gained some weight in her bum and legs but I didn't take any pleasure from it. She was on a starvation diet when she broke up with me but had periods of binge eating in her past so who knows what has happened since she left me. I still so desperately wanted to just go have a conversation with her like we used to so I guess even though I've been in no contact for almost 6 weeks I was kind of getting rejected again.

I have been seeing more and more how she was mirroring me the first 3 months. She was fascinated by everything we talked about and what I was up to each day. I know it's a rabbit hole but it bothers me that she said she lost interest in me because she was bored and we had nothing in common when I was praised for the very same things in the beginning. It wouldn't even matter how irrational her answers were but I really want to talk to her about what exactly it was she was bored with and what she thinks we didn't have in common, because her favourite thing to do is travel and I would have went anywhere with her. When she had a rage/anxiety attack I could wrap her in my arms and clam her down in 30 seconds. She said I was the best ever at playing with her hair and relaxing her. Then suddenly we have nothing in common. Those are a couple of extremely huge benefits that she threw away and seems to have erased from ever happening. I do realize I have to stay away and not justify her delusions of me being a threat and a stalker who causes her discomfort but it is so frustrating to lose someone so important by her hiding behind a cell phone. She wrote me 5 times in the span of her leaving me from December to July and each message actually made me more confused and each of her messages grew more hostile and negative as they progressed.

It's funny how my mind is so sure that if I had married her or even just dated her for a year or two she would have still snapped on me for something else eventually and probably still left me with a text break-up. And that would have devastated me far worse. Yet I still am so sad and frustrated that she would blindside me with a text dump 30 minutes before a shopping trip together and then cut me off cold turkey from ever being able to see her again in person. I've never encountered this before in my life. All my other breakups made sense while this one seems like it could be fixed so easily yet still impossible to do as she insults me more and more with each communication.

Called my friend last night to talk me down from a texting her urge and writing here today for further help. Thank you.

So much wisdom here. One of the authors that I follow online recently wrote this, " Two important rules. I don't do crazy. I define what crazy is." Learning to trust your perceptions is part of your healing. It's OK to decide that something isn't right with what our partners say. If you aren't sure, it's OK to call a friend to talk it out. I'm very blessed to have several local "been there, done that" friends who help my thinking at times. Of course friends here help with that too  |iiii.

Bill Eddy's BIFF writing helps so much. You can read the basics online or get the book. It's a gem for any relationship characterized by conflict.

I came out of the gym yesterday and saw the ex walking to her car so I stayed an aisle away and then she stopped in front of my car because I had parked directly in front of her car. The odds of that are astronomical. I honestly had no idea it was her car as she drives several different cars owned by the family business so I do no remember what she was driving 8 months ago. I always drove us everywhere anyways. The odds of that happening are so bizarre, almost like it was meant to happen so I could finally tell her off after the craziness that was about to happen.

I got in my car and avoided eye contact with her, looked at my phone and looked up and she was video taping me with her phone. I had enough of her accusations when I was the one who had lost 40 pounds from her hurting me. I've been complete no contact for 6 weeks and I run into her and she starts up again that I'm a stalker. People bump into each other when they live 10 minutes away from each other. So I got out of the car and said, "What the hell are you doing taping me." There were 2 guys getting out of the car beside her and she starts talking to them and wouldn't even look at me. She told them she was shaking and we used to date and I'm stalking her and it had gone on long enough. She said she talked to the general manager at the gym the day before and he was going to kick me out. The guys wanted nothing to do with the conversation

I told her that I was the one who was blindsided, betrayed and thrown in the garbage but she needs to play the victim. She was making a whatever face the whole time no guilt or empathy or anything for all the weight loss and pain I suffered and she would not say anything to me back. I said everything is always about her and how she needs to be respected and all about her feelings while she throws me in the garbage. I got back in the car and then thought again enough is enough and I got back out and said she needed to go home and look up borderline personality disorder because that's what she has and she always needs to play the victim while she leaves destruction everywhere she goes. She rolled her eyes when I called her a Borderline and knew what it was, she wasn't confused. I drove a block away and then came back to the gym and talked to the manager and said she had broke up with me by a text a few days after Christmas even he said that was terrible. I said I never saw her for months but that was the second time she had yelled at me for being a stalker in the gym. He said it was fine for me to go to the gym and took down the information. I also asked if she had put in a report about me and he said no. So she actually turned to a complete stranger and made up a compete lie of reporting me the day before and being told I would be removed from the gym. How insane is that to be able to create a lie like that on the spot? I would really like comments and thoughts on this.

When I got home, I called the police myself for advice and he said I could go to the gym anytime I want. This is Canada so restraining orders are not as easily made here. I told him she was video taping me so I got out of the car and told her off and he said there was nothing to worry about.

The friends I talked to think she is playing games because if she was actually scared of me she would have got in her car and driven away when she saw me not stopped beside her car pull out her phone and make a scene taping me. She also would have blocked me on her cell phone when I was trying to get her back a couple months ago if she actually thought my texts were causing discomfort so weird that she never did block me. Your thoughts on the video taping instead of driving away would be appreciated.

I don't know how she was able to be so perfect for a few months and be this delusional monster now. I feel stupid that I didn't see this earlier but I'm not too hard on myself as I realize that she is a pathological liar. It's quite scary how she can go through life like that. I'm still going to the gym, I'm not letting her control me but I won't make direct eye contact ever again. She is completely lost.

Any thoughts on my last post today would be appreciated. This just happened yesterday and it's still shocking to witness such a crazy lie made up on the spot and the video taping. Kind of terrifying how someone who idealized me so hard could hate me so much over nothing. Every woman I talk to lately has stories of them or their friends having a controlling, angry ex that they stuck with for years and I did my very best with this girl and she treats me like this. I truly hate that I even had to confront her yesterday to defend myself but I have to get my self respect back.

To be honest man, I would find another gym. I know it sucks but nothing good can come of this.

Just my advice

Sorry I’ll add more later. Got to run but wanted to get that out to you. I think once you get to this point there is no pulling her out of this tailspin she is in.

Any type of stalking allegation can only get worse. Avoid this woman at all costs brother

Again, just what I would do (at least that’s what I hope I would do, I know what feelings for a woman can do to a man)

Thank you. What do you think the reasons are for her to not just get in her car instead of causing this confrontation and most importantly to say to some stranger she had already reported me to the general manager and had been told I would be removed when that never happened? What's the point of lying like that? Can she just not help it?

Seeking,

She's requested several times now to be left alone.

Breakups hurt. All of us here know the pain.

When someone asks us to leave them alone, we need to accept it and respect their wishes. It's not on them to heal our wounds.

To continue to pursue this could get you in trouble, and even greater pain.

Finding another gym is good advice. There comes a point where letting go is the only right choice.

I was leaving her alone. I got in the car and didn't look at her. When she started taping me I engaged.

She's provoking you to get a reaction out of you. I know it's easier said than done but you have to ignore and be indifferent to her.

Pbpd are masters at manipulation. And to be honest she gets high at any sort of attention you give them and treat you like
crap especially when you're painted black. I have two classes with my ex thus far and with all her games and trying to get my attention or provoking me...I did not give in once into talking to her. I've become stronger and know a side of me that I didn't before I met her.

Easier said than done but I think it's best if you ignore 100% place yourself first and focus on yourself.

When you don't give into their crap that's when you're the winner.

come on, Seeking.


youve made several attempts to get her to talk to you over several months, after she asked to be left alone. members tried to tell you this at the time. you kept contacting her, and each time, more aggressively, she asked to be left alone.

since then, youre showing up at her gym, on the same days, at the same time.

maybe parking in front of her was a coincidence. it wouldnt be unreasonable for her to think it wasnt. if she considers you a threat (shes gone to the police before), then she would be taping you for evidence. by telling her off, you gave her more of it.

weve all struggled with letting go, Seeking. some of us have pushed pretty hard for closure. this has gone pretty far. we dont want to see you get into trouble, and even more pain.


if you want your self respect, do the healthy things. a self respecting man would stay far away from this.

I had been going to the gym for several months before I saw her. She has seen me there 4 times in 8 months. I don't think that is cause for this nonsense but I agree, I'm not even going to look in her direction ever again. There is no point and it does hurt me to have someone who said she loved me hate me like this so I need to stop poking at my wound.
Can I get thoughts on her saying she had talked to the general manger of the gym and was told I would be kicked out when I know for a fact that didn't happen because I talked to the manager that night and he confirmed that never happened. Was that supposed to be another intimidation tactic? So scary to be able to lie on the spot like that so easily.

She may have been thinking about it and would act on it.

She may have been trying to make you feel like crap.

She may have just lied just for attention.

Bpds will do anything to put you down and not let you win in an argument even it means saying all the things she did

are the general manager and the manager two different people?

its entirely possible the manager hadnt yet heard from the general manager.

at this point, does it matter? if she is scary, wouldnt it be a better idea to find another gym?

I know you are trying to get answers to understand her behavior but the reality of it is they don’t even understand their behavior.

There is no sense to be made of why or what she is doing. If she has BPD her head is storm of emotions. They lie all the time about even the most trivial thing. They lie to make the world fit their reality. The remark about you being kicked out of the gym was probably just something she was thinking in the spur of the moment. The bottom line is why’s don’t matter.

Example:
I finally sent my upwBPDxgf a long caustic text calling her out on her behavior and telling her that I would avoid her at work and I expected her to do the same. It was not a nice text at all. Basically ending all chance of us ever reconciling.

The next day she included me on the invite list for social event at work. I tried to figure out why on earth would she do this. It made no sense at all. In her twisted mind it did though. I stopped trying to figure out why she did it. It just doesn’t matter at this point.

And...no I did not attend the event. I have not seen her nor communicated with her in three weeks.

I agree with ColdKnight it comes across as a provocation, the filming and having 2 guys with her as witnesses, could include the lie to the manager, just trying to get you to react in an aggressive way. Fits the prior story of calling you a stalker, like she is trying to build some sort of case.

The cautious advise would be avoid her, quit the gym. The other advice is stick up for your own sense of right and wrong. I avoided a coffee shop I used to enjoy going to that she got a job at, to avoid confrontation. The other side of me felt I was sacrificing my choice and free will.

How do you feel either way about the opportunity to ventilate and air what you have felt? I wonder if it helped to let her know, this has been bubbling away and at least you got some of it verbalised? From a practical point of view, if stuff like this happens again, if I couldnt remove myself easily id get the phone out and record as well - have then evidence to protect myself from any possible falsifications. A lot of people will stop the hostility and even clear off when they realise what they are doing is being recorded.

Thank you Cromwell. You have some helpful comments. I felt good about being able to vent but also bad because I thought I was going to marry this woman at one time and never imagined having an argument in the parking lot about her throwing me away like garbage. It will always be a nightmare, but I really liked your comment about standing up for yourself because I think more and more she is playing games.

Both times she confronted me she said to strangers that she was shaking. She was fine, she was more angry that she couldn't control me. She left one past boyfriend in England and another in Florida during the 10 years it took her to get a PHD and her father paid for her to not work. She says she was with the one for 8 years and left him because it bothered her he had a child. It took 8 years to dump someone for that? Something is wrong there. Considering that she began to sabotage our relationship after 3 months of idealization when I was so kind to her and she was so happy until suddenly she was not, I find her being able to be with someone in England 8 years and another in Florida for 2 years hard to believe. I wonder in hindsight what would have happened if I had not spoken up about her inconsiderate behaviour after that 4th month together. After a month of devaluation I called her out for some accountability and I was gone the next day. I wonder if we would still be together today if I had remained her silent slave or if I would have been dumped for some other reason. My biggest regret is that even though this has hurt me so bad I was very slowly beginning to detach from her during that month of being treated poorly. If I had kept from critizing her behaviour a little longer I might have been able to detach over the next few weeks together and not gone through this pain and rejection.

My mom thinks she freaks on me at the gym now because she is used to other men being gone in another country as she moves away after she snaps on them and feels shame seeing me because she knows I have seen her naked and she has this whole church good girl persona she puts on for others. Also she told me many secrets about her family and family business. Another reason it makes no sense that she broke up with me the way she did when she trusted me so much in the beginning. Just so odd. The more I think about the scenario with the video taping the more I think she was trying to intimidate me. I had not seen or contacted her for 6 weeks. I was looking at my phone instead of her when I was in the car and she starts saying I am in the Goodlife parking lot and I am calling the police as I am being stalked. As if she wanted to get my attention since I was not looking at her. If she truly believed I was a threat, which is still mind blowing to me, because I'm the guy who wouldn't put a cup of green tea down on her parent's furniture at Christmas because I couldn't find a coaster and played with her niece and nephew and brought them presents just 4 days before she cuts me off cold turkey from talking to her. If she was scared of me she would have blocked my cell, she would have got in her car instead of pulling that taping stunt and she would go to another gym instead of confronting me.
 
The downfall to all this is that it hurts my brain to be in this situation with someone I was loyal and kind with and cared up very deeply. During the month she was devaluing me I was not myself and was very weak and anxious, walking on eggshells terrified that I couldn't make her happy no matter what I tried. The real me is kind to others but takes no nonsense when someone is being rude. Her looking up a yoga schedule and telling me to go to a different gym actually started to wake the real me back up as that was super controlling and even my mom was furious when I told her that.

Just interested in how much you might feel the need to get external validation, as a grown up man, as to what is "right" or "wrong"?

her issue here is being invalidated from grasping the victim card.

"stalker" would do it, but all she has is "yoga practitioner" "treadmill runner" "phone gazer in car parking lot"

shes not stupid enough to phone the cops and have worse than lack of validation - it is an action that could backfire on her. "unhinged fruit cake with a phd"

"control" word has surfaced. so has "slave".

No-one put them in your mouth, they exist for a reason. This process I went through I feel a parallel. "wake up to real self" followed by a) living my liberated freedom each day the way I want to b) a slow detox to all this.

have you a goal to recuperate this loss of weight? turn the story from

"i lost something"

into

"I lost nothing- afterall"

can you visualise the possibility of experiencing such a day, imagine how it might feel? Just curious...

Well I did lose the best connection I have felt with a woman in 20 years 3 days after giving her presents and 4 days after celebrating Christmas with her family which was very special to me. So my body and mind is still in shock from that even after this time.

I had the huge urge to send her this text tonight but emailed it to myself and my friends instead. Wish to share.

I'm sending this text to let you know that after your actions on Friday I talked to the manager at the gym and the police. They both confirmed that I can go the gym and there is no need for your accusations if I stay away from you. I have not texted you for 6 weeks and I have not approached you when I have seen you at the gym. When I saw you in the parking lot I got in my car and left you alone. You should have done the same but for some reason you wanted to attack me again with the filming. What happened to you? You already hurt me more than anyone ever has but then you had to hurt me more with the stalker accusations. Yes I texted you many messages asking you for closure, a conversation, a second chance. What did you expect? You blindsided me 30 minutes before we were supposed to go shopping in the States, finally go to the olive garden and spend that lulu card I gave you for Christmas. You talked to me every day except for one for 4 months and then you cut me off cold turkey right after Christmas. I bonded with you more after Christmas with your family.  My body went into shock and I lost all that weight, you know my family uses your funeral home and I asked you a week after you left to please talk to me and let us be on good terms as my mom was supposed to use your home too and you ignored me. Nothing bad happened when we were together for you to act like that. I had an ex call me once at 3 in the morning saying she was going to kill herself and I talked to her until she calmed down. When you care about someone you need to have compassion and empathy. Instead you called me a liar and a stalker.
I knew something was wrong with the way you were treating me in December as I detailed in my last message. I should have spoken up when you yelled at me in the Marriott lobby and criticized me during that first Niagara trip. We were supposed to be celebrating my birthday and instead that was the beginning of the end. From September to November we had a magic connection. You say you turned on me because we had nothing in common but you complimented me on the things we had in common in the beginning so that doesn't make sense. We had 2 parties, 2 Niagara trips, a wine tour, a 250 dollar steak dinner, Christmas, my birthday, boxing Day, a naked movie, and Costco with my mom all in December and you say you were bored. That doesn't make sense. You turned on food and going to restaurants and me in December. My mom thought you were a completely different person the second time she saw you. You said I was only your 4th boyfriend so it makes no sense that you wouldn't talk to me if you were unhappy before you left and make an effort to fight for me, to fight for us. You just threw it all away so easily and we end up with the nightmare that happened on Friday. I never in a million years thought things would end this horribly during our first few months together. It's heartbreaking.

If you were to send this to her what would you hope achieve by it?

To get things off my chest, to get some kind of response that might make sense from her.

Dear SA-

I and many others have been trying to help you through this painful and confusing experience and many of your friends here have given you solid advice.  Only you can extricate yourself.

I’m so sad that you’re still feeling the need to engage with her.  So sad.  I really believe it’s time for you to look solely to yourself for closure... she canNOT help you. 

I don’t know whether she has BPD or not (or traits), but if she does, and if you’ve studied about this illness, you’ve likely gained an understanding of what the illness entails.  The “Feelings = Facts” component.  Why then are you seeking validation from HER?  Of YOUR feelings?

I recall the horrid end of my 17-year marriage to uNPDh (with BPD traits).  A few months after the violent incident, he said “Love means way more to you than it does to me”.  And I said, “Well then the way I see it, you’ve lost a WHOLE LOT, and I’ve basically lost nothing.” And I walked out of the office.  I never felt another ounce of good feeling toward him.

Nearly two years later after I had fled cross-country, I decided I would try for a “closure conversation” with him.  I called, left a message asking for 20 minutes.  He called right back and said he had 5 minutes, and if that wasn’t enough, to write him a letter.  I mailed him a BLANK sheet of white paper.

You see, that empty shell of a man could NOT heal the wounds from the 17 years of cruelty he inflicted.  I had to free myself.

SA - you’ve got to free yourself.  I hope you can look yourself in the mirror and say “Enough!”  And really began your detachment work.  We can walk that path with you.

I believe what’s happening here, is that you’re setting the stage for what could turn into, in her eyes “the worst relationship... the biggest mistake, the worst YEAR... of my life”... if you don’t curb this behavior.

People’s feelings change.  They just do.  It hurts and it sucks.  We cry, we lose weight (I too lost way too much weight when my marriage ended).  Some people GAIN weight.  We stop taking care of ourselves.  We forget how to breathe some days.  But the world keeps on turning. 

These ruminations are making you unhealthy and deeply unhappy.  You don’t have to feel like this.  And your path toward opening up for happiness is to shed this thing and silently forgive her for not being who you WANTED her to be.  She is NOT the person you THOUGHT she was.  Radical Acceptance.  There are beautiful souls walking the earth looking for friendship and love.  Why do you want to repeatedly write about the month of December to her?

You’ve GOT to LET yourself get better.  And a large part of that is to take yourself AWAY from the gym where you see her.  You did NOT go to this location when you were together.  You’re sabotaging your healing.  You’re punishing yourself.

Why?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

You are right that going to the gym is probably hurting my healing. I went there when we were together once and saw how beautiful it was. I was shocked this was the same gym she told me she cried about having to go to for a month after she moved back and couldn't use the $10,000 a year gym her dad was paying for her to go to for 2 years in the Miami marina.

The gym I go to is in the basement and has downtown parking. I started going to this gym weekly for yoga as it helped me after the break-up and became a big fan of the building having windows to see outside instead of a basement, it is closer to my house and the free parking is so much better. I've gone there about 50 or 60 times since January and I have seen her there 5 times. I stopped approaching her after she made a scene months ago but she still texted me that I need to go find another gym and that was out of line to because just being in the same building is a problem to her? Why? I'm the one who was hurt while she walked away cold turkey with no care of the damage she caused. So a huge part of me likes the gym and is able to ignore her and wants to go just for the parking and windows alone but subconsciously I do feel like I'm poking at my wound because it brings me bad memories of the way she treated me.

Oh my dear friend!  With a bit of humor, You just provided me about a thousand pounds of JADE about the gym.  Do you see that?

And I shorted my marriage by 2 years...it was 19, not 17.  A good sign that I’m truly forgetting!

Now my JADE to you:  I believe that your continued attendance at that gym is not “probably hurting your healing”; it is entirely PREVENTING your healing from starting.

And here’s why... (please know, this is NOT a criticism.)  You're  still replaying in most of your posts, precise details of events from December.  If you’re doing that here, I HAVE to believe this is a tiny portion of the inner struggle taking place in your thoughts.  You’re not being kind or fair to yourself.  Not at all, SA.  You’re not allowing space or distance between what took place during the relationship and now.  And that’s NOT fair to you. 

And each time you move close to that gym, your psyche KNOWS there’s a chance she will be there ... trigger - WOUND, your pain.

So I ask again... WHY are you sabotaging yourself?  Why are you punishing yourself?  This is NOT about her.  Please try to leave her out of this part.

I think if you were to look VERY closely at this relationship, you would know (I think you already do), this was NOT the BEST relationship you ever had. 

Take a bit of time and roll this over, okay?  Do you WANT to feel better?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

The first 3 months I thought were the best relationship I ever had but I think she hit me at a vulnerable time where I was super prone to the love bombing. My bird had died a few months earlier, I was 43 and afraid I was running out of chances to have kids and she was 36 and white and lived 10 minutes away from me. I really liked her family and wanted to be a part of it and I wanted her to give my mom new company. Unfortunately she acted like a lunatic the second time we went out with my mom and kept saying no everytime her family invited me to an event. Then she started picking at me for a month.

Things I'll never know are if I had spoken up when she first started to verbally abuse me and invalidate the things I had done for her previously would that have helped or would she have just dumped me a month earlier? When she dumped me I was actually not affected for a day and told her off pretty good about not being able to do whatever she wants whenever she wants and if she wants a pet dog instead of a boyfriend that's not me. Especially if she is NPD instead of BPD the initial break-up may have been just a control tactic for a week or two. I thought standing up for myself when she was disrespecting me was a good thing but I may have made the temporary break-up permanent. I'll never know.

I know she is not good for me, if she is not ill she is at least a pathological liar, selfish and a child living in an adult's body handed life on a silver platter by her parents. That's not a good person to share your live with. It actually feels like there is a worm in the middle of my forehead blocking my rational thinking and I just want to pull it out because I know she has went from the best relationship to the worst over a month of devaluation. One problem is that I'm an accountant with minor OCD so my memory is like she was in my bed just yesterday telling me how happy she was and it kills me each and every day that she doesn't want me or that anymore. If I had done something wrong I would have guilt but it might be better than losing someone because they changed their mind literally because of nothing I did.

are you getting any help for this?

i have some OCD traits and tendencies, and i can be a fairly obsessive person.

obsessions can be unhealthy. sometimes, when a relationship is hard to let go of, they can drive a person to try harder and harder to obtain it, to really unhealthy levels. and it all just tends to fuel itself.

that seems like what is going on here, Seeking. youre hurting, and your hurt is driving you to do self sabotaging stuff, and unhealthy things to another person.

you can get some meds that can help take the edge off. you can see a therapist and gain insight, and healthy coping tools. why not do that?

OCD as in I like things to be tidy and organized and make sense. So in this situation somebody asking me to spend Christmas with their family and then blindsiding me, breaking up with a text and refusing to speak to me again is not something rational to do 4 days later and I am obsessing over how she could do that to me.

You said I'm doing unhealthy things to her? I said hello to her in the gym and she freaked out. I have not approached her since. I sent a bunch of texts asking her to give me a chance to talk to her and if she didn't want to get back together at least she made an effort to talk to me and put us on friendly terms so my mom could use her funeral home still like the rest of my family members . Why am I considered unhealthy towards her for that? She broke up with me 30 minutes before we were supposed to go shopping and I tried my hardest to be allowed one opportunity to fix whatever happened. This woman was crazy about me and super intense and then something changed overnight on my birthday trip and she treated me terribly for a month before dropping me like an ice cream wrapper and I just wanted her to help me understand what happened.

I feel your pain but you have to stop looking for answers and trying to understand why she did it. It is hard to hear but it just doesn’t matter why? She doesn’t even know why most likely. For some reason the switch was flipped and the intense attraction felt for you has turned to intense non attraction and anger. There are two sides to pwBPD intensity.

You felt all the benefits of the good side. Now you are feeling the pain of the bad side. You may never know the actual why. I know you want to make sense of it. Trust me I did too. I spent a year trying to figure out why. The only why you need to know is because she has BPD

Trying to get her to think rationally is like trying to get a five year old to think rationally about quantum physics. She just does not have the foundation to think rationally and explain rationally. She is operating from pure emotion. Passion and emotion will override logic and reason in most normal people. Think what it does to someone with bpd.

I know you shouldn’t have to go to a different gym but seeing her there does nothing to make her want to be with you. It is even worse for you. It’s not worth it. The only way she will even consider contacting you again is if you disappear completely and even then no guarantees. I recently avoided a large work function that I had every right to attend because I did not want to take the slightest chance of running in to her.

Suppose you do send that email and she doesn’t respond? Most likely she won’t. What then?

What if she threatens to get a restraining order? What then?

What if she blocks all of your routes of communication? What then?

You are operating on high emotion right now just like she is. I know it’s hard brother but you have to get yourself in a logical mindset. Trust me. I struggle every day not to reach out.

You can do this. Day by day stronger each day.

Thanks Cold Knight. Your posts have been extremely helpful the last few days. I know she is lost so I am not longer trying to think of ways to get her to talk to me. Both of the 2 occasions where she completely flipped out on me at the gym were after 6-8 weeks of me vanishing completely. It seems she became even worse after seeing me again not better. Which seems to defy the pattern?

Another thing I have been trying to understand if that is even possible when absolutely nothing about her or what she said has ever remained stable over the time I knew her. Everything always ends in a contradiction with her actions and words. She almost got in an argument with me once at dinner telling me that I better not ever honk at someone in the car or tell a teenager to shut up that is being rude in a movie theatre because it would embarrass her. I asked her how honking at someone could embarrass her and she said they might see her in the window with me and she would be embarassed because I'm causing a scene. She told me stories of her family letting people walk around their house with their shoes on even though it bothered them because they did not want to seem rude and offend. So she is terrified about public displays, she wouldn't even kiss me in public except the one time she wanted to get me attached in the beginning. So how could she erupt at me in the middle of the gym because I said hi and then instigate that scene last week with the filming? It does not match. If her actions were consistent and seeing me in person bothered her that much she should ignore me or walk away, not explode and cause a scene in front of other people. She made sure there were people beside her both times she exploded as well so she could tell them how much she was shaking and afraid.

I have to say too that her thought process of us never being able to be in the same buildng again after all the intimacy we shared and no argument ever had is mind blowing to me. She made me feel like I had cheated on her or hit her with the way she dropped me and ignored me. It's the NPD or BPD that everyone says to go no contact with. Instead I got it instead. Every single woman I have ever dated, no matter how they ended I would say hello to if I ever ran in to them. She wants the memory of me dead and buried and it is hurtful.

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