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Here’s the blow-by-blow. I feel that I made some good points, yet I feel that I “lost”, because as always her passion drowns out everything else.

I just had another of those disturbing arguments with my wife, where it feels like I am in court and she is the grand inquisitor.  It came out of the blue because my son asked if he should apologize to a mean girl at school, and she said to him that you don’t need to apologize to someone of bad character; they will not change and just use the apology against you.

Soon afterward came the artillery against me.  That question got her thinking about me “not apologizing” to her adequately for the litany of wrongs I have committed (for example, for moving her to a city she doesn’t like).  Now, as a matter of fact, I have apologized many times, but she won’t accept the apology.  Therefore I have given up—I say that if she won’t accept my apology, then what more can I do?

For about 2 hours She had me pinned to my chair.  She dressed me down the whole time for being “selfish”, and yet also felt that I should be grateful for this “conversation” because it means she is beneficent and still willing to give me a chance to change.   She wants me to “change” before it’s “too late.”  That timetable is when our youngest graduates in three years.

I countered that I am not actually selfish, any more than anyone is.  She is projecting that onto me.  Somehow it benefits her to see that in me.  It makes me weaker and her stronger; me immoral and her moral. The underlying facts are what they are, but she sees in them what she wants to see.  I remarked that she reversed the old saying about “seeing is believing”.  In her case, “believing is seeing.” When she feels scared or out of control, her anxiety overwhelms her and she has to find someone nearby to blame and punish, to restore some sense of control.  That person is me.  I am her blank canvas upon which she pours her paintings of anguish and evil.

Somehow in this conversation she was able to dredge up and weave in every “wrong” I’ve done, and argue that these were not mere blunders, or one time offenses, but rather windows openings and allowing a glimpse  into my dark soul, my rotten character, and no other explanation will suffice. 

I accused her in return of making the “fundamental attribution error”—basically she is saying that if you commited a wrong it’s because you are evil; if I happened to commit wrong it wax not my fault, but rather something outside my control.  (The corollary is that if you accomplished something good, it was merely luck)

I furthermore stated that she isn’t a god, and can’t claim to know my motives. Only I know my heart. She laughed and said that she knows me better that I know myself.

In order to avoid being dumped/divorced (which she seems to think will leave me a semi homeless hobo), I must apologize (never mind that I already have), and make amends.  However, at the same time  she seems to hold the contradictory position that I can apologize until I’m blue in the face but she’ll never trust me because my character can’t change (—except it can, she’ll insist two breaths later).

“You are selfish; I’m unselfish.”

“I don’t trust you because you are untrustworthy, but you know that I am trustworthy.”

“All of the hurt has flowed one way in our relationship.”

She did challenge me to list any way that she has hurt me or acted selfish.  I see the trap for what it is. I said that I didn’t think that such an exercise would be productive, as it would only trigger her to become angry.  In fact I reminded her that we did this before; we engaged in such an exercise months ago where she was allowed to harangue me for an hour, unchallenged, and then, when it was my turn, we didn’t last 1 minute before she forced the needle of blame back toward me.  I told her I would only be willing to have such a discussion in the presence of a therapist.  “Fine”, she said.  Then she suggested I put in writing “any way that I have been selfish or isolated you.”

Oh my, is that tempting.  I might just take her up on that, as an exercise, though I doubt I’ll actually share it with her.  Do I think that a listing of her sins against me will make our relationship better? Absolutely not. I would expect nothing to result from this but anger and evasion and blame shifting. 

But it might be cathartic for me.

These arguments can be tough and it is difficult not to JADE and engage back, isn't it?  Especially when, as you say, she can rail for an hour and expects you to listen intently, but can not seem to handle more than a minute of the focus being on your feelings about things she has done.  I've been there and done that.

From what you're describing, it does not sound like she is willing to listen to you.  Are you listening to her?  Or would you say that because you don't ever feel heard, you've shut down as far as really hearing her?


Challenging is a clear sign of not being in listening/hearing mode.  When that is the tone, you're right to feel it's not safe and not the time.

Yes, “JADE” is the key mistake I tend to make.  I wish that every time she catches me off guard like that, I could have the word “JADE” suddenly appear in my visual field, like a cue card.

Greenbrier:  I can tell from your writing that your powers of logic and argument are keen, although as you are aware, those powers have little relevance for conversing with a person with BPD.  It took me a long time to figure out that I would rather be effective in my relationship than win arguments.  That realization helped me start avoiding JADE, and things have been a lot better in our home since then. 

Also, boundaries are important.  You have a right not to be the subject of a hostile interrogation session - you just need to choose whether to subject yourself to that or remove yourself from the situation next time.