BPDFamily.com

Hello.  I just posted an introduction.  I used to be active on this board, but that was years ago. 

I was the scapegoat (physical and mental abuse) in a massively dysfunctional family.  My father became physically disabled by a car accident, and my mom was/Is undiagnosed BPD.  (I was told by a therapist my mom had BPD)

My mom managed to ruin my wedding (I was 25 and financially independent) by refusing to go because I didn't do it all her way, and convincing everyone in the family to refuse to go to my wedding.  My BPD mom, and 2 of my 3 siblings (both Narc/bpd tendencies) refused to have anything to do with me for a year after this.  Then they all acted as if nothing had ever happened, and resumed contact with me. 

This is just one very small example of the type of hurt I went through. 
 
I have spent many years in therapy, and in 12 step programs (Al Anon and Adult Children of Alcoholics) to recover from this.  I have a long history of depression and anxiety, and have sought treatment for it.  I have shed many tears mourning for all the hurt, pain, and loss.  Neither my mom nor my narc/bpd sisters have ever sincerely acknowledged what really happened.  My husband was also very hurt. 

I attempted confrontation with mom in the past, but it was like setting off a nuclear bomb.  So, my current way of dealing with this, is limited contact - with both my mother and my 2 narc/bpd siblings.  I have worked through the vast majority of all the anger and hurt and sense of loss through therapy, and talking to close and trusted friends. 

Here is the fly in the ointment.  Now, my mom is elderly and frail, and is losing the ability to be independent.  She currently lives in an independent living retirement home.  However, she really needs assisted living, in my opinion.  I expressed this opinion 2 years ago, but my 3 siblings thought she could do independent living.  She cannot remember how and when to take her meds, and cannot drive to get herself to doctor appointments.  My youngest sister, who was the golden child, is trying to control the situation from a distance by setting up doctor appointments, etc, but then asking me and my other middle sister, who happen to live in the same town as my mom, to take her to these appointments.  My mother has other transportation options to get to these doctors even though she cannot drive.  Also, this golden child sister has no job nor family, and she could move to live closer to our mother and take care of her, if she so wished. 

So my problem is basically one of boundaries.  I feel a lot of anger that these family members of mine were never there for me in any way when I needed help, both as a child and adult, but yet I'm expected to be there to help them and my mom.  I don't want to tell them this, because it would just open a big Pandora's box, and anytime I've tried honesty and confrontation in the past, it just ends in people twisting what a say, and finding a way to make it my fault. I know I need to find a way to be at peace with this and let go of the anger. These people just are not thinking straight.

Case in point: 2 weeks ago, youngest sis was here in town, and took mom to hospital ER, because my mom felt so bad, and then set up several doctor and dentist appointments.  Sis calls me, asking me if I can take mom to a dentist appointment.  I say "no".  There are other options for my mother, such as going to a dentist 2 blocks away from where she lives, or going to her regular dentist, but taking a cab.  (I live 45 minutes to an hours drive from my mom). My sister seemed to accept my boundary, but then, this morning I get an email from her, asking me to do this again, as if we had never had the previous conversation!  She does it in this manipulative way saying "It would be WONDERFUL if you could take mom to the dentist, as otherwise she will be forced to take a taxi". 
ARRGGGG.  Very frustrating.  I replied to her email, saying, K, remember when we had this discussion 2 weeks ago?  I already told you then, I was not able to do it, and mom has other options. 

So I feel proud of myself for setting a boundary, but am feeling very emotional about it.  I'm feeling anger, sadness, grief, and under all this, fear.  I'm terrified of getting sucked back into the black hole of my toxic family of origin. 

In addition to this, I'm dealing with health issues of my own, which is making me feel emotionally vulnerable at the time. 

Any ideas of how to feel calmer and more at peace with this, and how to set these boundaries effectively would be appreciated. 

hi narcdaughter2!  :hug: I'm sure others have more wisdom to offer than I, but allow me to say that you should be proud of yourself! I am so proud of you for setting the boundary with your sister, too! I know it hurts your heart to do it, and I'm sorry for that. Hang in there. 

The imbalance in the weight you and your siblings are carrying seems to be a common them for others here too. I also feel for you on the aging thing. I'm filled with dread and don't know if my marriage will survive it. So many of us here are facing aging parents. Keep us posted, I'd love to hear more.

pj 

It appears that as your Mom declines "family roles" are showing up on steroids.

It's sad when others demonstrate little or no flexibility, yet we ultimately know that we don't "control" what other do. 

So..it appears you are doing what you can to focus on controlling yourself.  Good job!

Now...to those emails that are frustrating you.

I would encourage you to "hand it back to them". 

How about this for a response?

"Before I answer, I need to clarify if you believe there is new information about the dentist since our last conversation. "

How does that answer strike you?  I would suggest you organize the answer in relation to  the following boundary.

Boundary:  I don't reopen settled discussions, unless it's clear there is new information for me to consider.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

I have often heard that "No" is a complete answer, but for me, a child raised by a parent to be their caretaker, I have a hard time saying no. Always with the back story and over explaining and justifying. So first I would like to say bravo to you for saying No to your sister regarding the dentist. I have a similar situation here with my Mom and siblings. It is a work in progress. You mentioned you are having your own health issues. No need to share your personal info with them, but perhaps you could say you have your own appointments to get to and they are not flexible. With my uBPDm, no matter how much you do it will never be enough. But to compound an already difficult situation, I have found that my siblings relied on delegating a huge share of the work to me. They took care of their own needs first and I found myself working around their schedules and my Mom's never ending neediness. Practicing boundaries and self care has been a lifesaver for me.

Sometimes I think being the only surviving sibling makes my situation easier! (Although believe me, I sure would love to see my sister appear and take on some of what is going on right now.)

My mom (age 93) is not BPD but has some traits that I believe derive from her childhood and adult life with a flaming uNPD/BPD stepmother. I do have boundaries that work -- she lives with us, and the first few months were tricky. My husband sees her behaviors clearly and supports my policy of not indulging snits and silent treatments. However, she is pracyical, her cognition is excellent, and she is mobile and engaged.

Some practical things that can help with elder care is making sure your mom is getting all services to which she is entitled. Your county's social services can help with this. Also, if either of your parents were veterans, there are VA services -- a reimbursement for home healthcare such as driving to appointments, cleaning, preparing meals, bathing and personal care, etc. -- with a financial limit of about $80k in assets, besides house and car. That could help.

Also, home health care is available at her own expense, if the assets/income are there. My mom has a caregiver come in for four hours a day, three days a week -- she drives to most doctor appointments, organized medication, monitors blood pressure, etc. as well as helps with cleaning and laundry. She is a CNA and in the past has needed to help with more nursing tasks, but Mom is doing fine now.

The trick can be whether a BPD sees help as attention or as interference.

Are there services you could explore?

(By the way, I'm taking my mom to the dentist today. Yay.)

Yes, I am proud of myself for reinforcing that boundary.  Thank you.  I got my sister's response to that today, it was alright.  I'm thankful for that.

Family roles.  Yes.  My mother showed extreme favoritism to my oldest and youngest sister, and that hurt - a lot.  I was the scapegoat and got almost nothing but abuse and neglect, while my youngest sister was doted on and given everything.  I used to be really jealous, but I've gotten over that.  But it still hurts to a certain extent deep down.

I like your idea of asking if there is any new information before I'm willing to re open a prior discussion.  Because what is the point of repeating and rehashing the same discussion?  I'll use that. 

What I did say was "remember when we talked on the phone, and you said x, y, z."  That worked, as she accepted that.  I'm relieved, because my youngest sister, who was the golden child, has a lot of narc tendencies. 

thank you for your support and encouragement.  I'm so glad to hear that boundaries have been a lifesaver for you.  They are a lifesaver for me, too.  Without them I'd go crazy or kill myself. 

One of my other boundaries, is that I refuse to be in charge of my mom's care.  That is the province of my youngest sister, who was the golden child.  I will let her be in charge of and determine mom's care and the various supports that mom needs.  She wants to do that, and I don't want to do that, so it works out well.  The thing I'm having a hard time accepting, is ending up becoming her errand boy who executes her plans for mom's care.  I am willing to help my mom out, at times, but not to the extent that I sacrifice my health or sanity, or give up the things I enjoy doing.

What I'm realizing, is that this situation with my mom is bringing up some old emotional hurts in me.  I need to sit with that, and continue to grieve the loss of the mother I never had.  She was a mother in a biological sense, and she gave me food and clothing (begrudgingly) but nothing more.  I'm also grieving the fact that I don't have much of a relationship with 2 of my 3 siblings other than coordinating mom's care.  Two of my three sisters (oldest and youngest) have a lot of narcissistic traits as well.  I've reached out to them on several occasions, but to no avail.  I'm working on acceptance of the fact that they, too, have been deeply wounded and never had a real mother.  I'm thankful that I do have a bond with my one sister who is the other middle child, and was also treated poorly by our mother.   Our family seemed to have a very very cold emotional climate, and our mother was extremely cold and distant, and everything was about rules and obeying the rules.  We were told repeatedly we were to be seen and not heard.   

Hey...I would have a hard time accepting that as well.  In fact, I doubt I would accept it.  Perhaps once or twice, but then that would be if it was a "new" situation...new person that I would give the "benefit of the doubt" to.

At this point, you know how your sister is..right? 

So...why accept this at all.

If she wants to make appointments for mom..she can make them and she can take her.

If she would like you to handle an appointment..let you handle it.  You call and make the appointment..then take her.  Send out an update email after it's over to your other siblings.

Would that work?

Best,

FF

Can we work on a new point of view?

I'm not suggesting that you do this...but I am suggesting you think about this and figure out if this "works for you".

Axioms.

1.  Mom needs care
2.  Mom is unlikely to change
3.  Sisters are unlikely to change

Therefor I will make this about number 1 and not be shocked when 2 and 3 happen. 

Does that work?

What are implications of doing this?

Best,

FF

Yes, that is a good plan.  I'll let her know that if I take mom to an appointment, then I make the appointment.  If she make the appointment, then she must make the arrangements to get mom there.  (she lives out of town)

You raise good points here.  I'm doing things to take care of my mom to the extent that I am able.  I know I need to work on acceptance of how my sisters are.  They want to fix mom and make all her problems go away, but I doubt that is going to happen.  I need to let them do what they are going to do.

I like the solution of "whoever makes the appointment does the transportation." It's simply not right for someone hundreds of miles away to set up appointments that someone else is expected to accomodate.

A positive at my house -- my mom, at 93, still makes all her own appointments. She tries to schedule so the caregiver can take her. She never makes an appointment at other times without asking first if I can drive her.

Hi narc daughter,

Welcome back, again!  :hi:

I am in a similar situation with an aging bpd mom & the split black/scapegoat role. I am a primary care giver and looking for ways to scale back. I have to find both parents some outside help. I have a sibling nearby who has bowed out. I cannot do this on my own.

As a suggestion, might it not be better to stay LC? Your sisters want to help. Let them do it. Stay out of the way perhaps. It may not be worth the extra stress for you. Trust they are doing their best for your mom & let it go.  I could be wrong, so just take it with a grain of salt.

Good luck with what you decide to do!   :hug:

There you go.  Asking first shows that there is an understanding/respect of another persons time.

I suspect that if your sister would have asked first, you would feel much different about this. 

Best,

FF

I agree.  I am trying to stay limited contact.  I would like to see my mom on occasion, about once every 2 weeks, and let them do the rest. 

I wonder if it's best to "flip it" and proactively reach out to them.

Try this on for size.

So, you certainly want to try to be fair.  That being said, "fair" means lots of different things to different people.  So don't expect them to agree.

Stepping aside completely from medical care for Mom doesn't seem right.  Neither does you doing everything. 

How about this?  Figure out the days that you can "donate to the cause" and send those out a couple weeks in advance.  Don't wait for Sis to reach out to you.

"Hey...for the week of November xx I can help out with Mom's care on XX and XX.  Please let me know by XX if I will be needed.  Thanks for coordinating Mom's care."

(yes..that's a bit different than the idea of whoever takes her schedules her, but it's something to think about)

Best,

FF

form flier said
"How about this?  Figure out the days that you can "donate to the cause" and send those out a couple weeks in advance.  Don't wait for Sis to reach out to you.

"Hey...for the week of November xx I can help out with Mom's care on XX and XX.  Please let me know by XX if I will be needed.  Thanks for coordinating Mom's care."

This is an excellent idea.  Thanks. 

I haven't read the whole conversation here, just the first few threads, but thought I could jump in and offer my recent experience.

My mom is 83 and frail to the point of almost not having the strength to stand unsupported.  Heart problems, past minor stroke affecting her speach, acute osteoporosis, 4 major surgeries for hips, knee and back, and recently had ANOTHER fall where she sustained 4 fractures in hips and sacrum.  I've just gone through 3 weeks of  :cursing:  I needed help, so at one of her doctors appts, I asked if community supports were available.  He put in the referral.  Two days later I got a phone call from an intake nurse, answered 20 minutes of questions, and mom was designated a 6/6 priority.  Then the supports started happening...meals on wheels, meal assist, Lifeline, shower assist, occupational therapist, and a RIE assessment.  As all the meetings to set up these supports began happening, mom's resistance started to bloom.  Last Friday was the epic extinction burst :(  I went N/C to protect myself because I did not feel emotionally safe.  The best part...?  I met all kinds of local health professionals in mom's home.  Mom also met them (...planting "seeds" for future sprouting), and the results from her RIE assessment determined she qualified for assisted living!  More extinction burst.  I called and asked for a private meeting with the nurse who conducted the RIE assessment, and shared my story.  Got really great verbal support.  The nurse understands the situation, and is going to meet with mom to discuss her RIE results and recommend she agree to the assisted living knowing that there is a 2 year waiting list, and mom can always say no when the time comes.  Of course if mom falls again and BREAKS something before then, making it impossible to live on her own, she may no longer have the choice to stay where she is.  Since she is now "in the system", that puts her in line ahead of anyone who is put on the list behind her.  

That is what I have done to garner practical support for my uBPD mom.  Mom has always wanted to live with us, but we put that boundary down years ago.

Strangely, after my NC weekend after the epic extinction burst, I showed up for another previously scheduled meeting with another health care worker at mom's house, and after that was over, put a few pieces in her puzzle and did a few things around her house for her.  It's like she forgot about her rage and it never happened.

Moral of the story: consider asking for a RIE assessment, and getting other supports in place.   The extinction bursts are always going to happen.  But we are still looking after our mom's if we can arrange community supports.  For me, sharing my story with the RIE assessor made all the difference.  She told me that had I not shared my story with her, she would not have been able to determine the problem because mom "presented" quite normally to her.  Since I was present for the assessment, I was able to witness all the bold face lies (eg. no history of depression or anger management) and inform the nurse assessor of the full picture.  I was crying almost the whole time.  She could see the authenticity.  Mine was not her first rodeo.  They see it a lot, but sometimes they don't see unless we inform them.  It is our job to reach out for the help to those best qualified to provide it.

And the extinction bursts will just keep coming.

Good luck. :hug:

Methuen thanks for sharing your story.  It's good to know all the options that are available.  My question -what does RIE stand for?

I mispelled the acronym.  It's actually RAI instead of RIE.  At any rate, it's a tool the health authority/assessor uses during a meeting/interview with the elder (eg my uBPD mom) to assess needs and qualifications with regard to community level supports and services such as in-home supports (eg.  Meals on Wheels, shower assist etc)  or long-term care such as assisted living or complex care.  I think it also recognizes that caregiver burnout has a huge $ cost to the system long term.  If the person being assessed qualifies, supports are put in place, some of which are publicly covered, some of which are  subsidized, and some of which the elder must pay for.  I think the premise is that if community supports are provided to keep the client "in their own home longer" (and preventing caregiver burnout), the system saves money.  The RAI is used internationally.  Different regions may use different assessment tools, but I think the RAI is pretty standard.

I asked my mom's family Dr for a referral for "home care supports".  The fact is my mom has been living independently for 14 years since my dad died, but she couldn't manage without me and my husband.  I am an only child.  It's crazy how much we do to help her.  Most of it isn't appreciated.  So with her recent fall and fractures, she became a full time job during the day, and her BP behavior also occupied my mind at night.  Then she raged at me because all her pain was my fault (she fell on her grass outside when I wasn't even around).  Hence my crisis.

Getting home supports in place gave me an option, and some much needed release and relief.  It also laid a boundary that I couldn't do everything.  Extinction bursts like crazy. Oh it was bad.  

The best part, the RAI assessment determined she qualified for assisted living!  That was external validation for how much we've been doing!  I bring all this up because it sounds like you and your siblings are doing a lot too.  We caregivers get drawn into doing so much more to support our parent as they age...and it happens over a long period of time...so it kind of becomes "normal", and we don't see that it isn't a "normal" level of care for an aging parent.  I don't think we always realize just how much work (physical and emotional) our parent is because they always make us feel we aren't doing enough.  The bad news for me, there's a waiting list for my mom to get into assisted living, but that's OK, because it will give her some space to sit with what's coming.  She'll never be OK with it...but in my case...at least I'm getting support with the work that is required to keep her in her own home, and the health authority is aware of the situation.  Looking back, I think I had blinders on with the reality of my mom's physical situation and her inability to cope on her own.  I was deep in FOG, trying to do all the right things, which are never good enough for a BP.  Her fall created a crisis, which forced me to seek outside help because I was becoming "undone".  

I'm just sharing all this to let you know that there are community supports which could be useful for you either now, or in the future.  It could give you and siblings an "option".  I look at it this way:  securing community support doesn't mean I don't love my mom enough do all the work myself, it means I do love her and am securing the support to have her needs met when I am not able to meet them all on my own.

If your family (siblings) doesn't/don't want to look into community supports, then those individuals can "own" the time and commitment involved in doing what is needed to have her needs met.  Just another perspective.

I want to second all this advice.  I was a county executive for a while and "fall control and risk mitigation" was a big focus of our eldercare department.

It was also a "palatable" way to get evaluators in homes to evaluate for other needs that would be additional to "fall control". 

Even the hardcore "problem types" out there seem to understand that falling is really bad for elderly people.  The economic  impacts of falls, not to mention the impact on health, are incredible.

Best of luck getting appropriate evaluations done.

Best,

FF